The lies that Flynn allegedly told FBI agents:
- Flynn claimed he did not ask the Kislyak to attempt to "refrain from escalating the situation" after sanctions were imposed against Russia by the Obama administration during a December 29, 2016 conversation.
- Flynn "did not recall" that Kisylak told him that Russia planned a moderate response to the sanctions thanks to that conversation.
- Flynn claimed that he did not ask Kislyak to delay or defeat a pending vote on a U.N. Security Council resolution during a conversation on December 22, 2016.
I guess he'll get what Martha Stewart got now ?
Country Club jail
About all it's worth anyway.
That is all it is worth. He didn't do anything illegal. He only lied according to this artcle. Comey had already cleared him on this.
One FBI director wasn't quite as crooked as the other.
Then Reinhard Heydrich,
I mean Robert Mueller, decided he would destroy a man who had dedicated his life to the service of this country by bankrupting him and interrogating, even without legal assistance, by the same attorneys who worked for Hillary Clinton when she was questioned by the FBI and without having to be under oath.
Flynn didn't have anything to give anyone like Hillary and wouldn't consider giving anything that belonged Americans unlike Hillary, so he is broke, selling his home, one million dollars of legal cost. Even as a General, you don't make the kind of money traitors can by selling American assets to others and doing the old "Pay for Play" game.
If anything, it seriously calls Comey's integrity into question, now that Flynn's integrity is trash.....
Poor broke Flynn. Give it a fucking rest. Who hasn't heard about his Russian, Turkish, etc, paychecks. Or was all that fake news too? A former US general for sale to the highest foreign bidder. Nothing suspicious about that in trump world apparently.
Flynn had the least of all the potential charges filed against him and he keeps his military retirement, as long as he cooperates, fully. If he fucks that up, a whole lot of the more serious charges reappear, loss of his military retirement, and then federal charges that can be brought against his son kick in. As soon as trump throws Flynn under the bus on twitter, it's all over for Jared, then Donnie Jr, then Pence. I hope everybody has their story straight.
He could claim incompetence. It worked for Hillary.
It is believed this signals that Flynn is co-operating with the special counsel. The lying to the FBI is the lesser charge he was being considered for.
flynn made a plea bargain and that is the end of the co=operation.
of wait... you think flynn is co-operating against trump?
hey... here is a little secret - just between us.
there is no trump / russia collusion = there is hillary / russia collusion
don't let that get out... you will spoil our fun
No matter how much you, /pol/, and r/The_Donald would like to believe so, reality will hit you all like a hammer. Manafort, Papadopoulos, and now Flynn is the hammer beginning to swing.
Notwithstanding the fact that "innocent" Trump has repeatedly pressured Republicans to end the Russia investigation.
Funny how Trump has at least 3 people associated with Russia with direct ties to him, but yet they are still trying to claim Clinton collusion! Just wow!
Except that the charges and lies had nothing to do with Trump
Trump hired and fired flynn....but he has nothing to do with trump... Sure, ok, keep telling yourself that.. LOL
Flynn is a retired USAF General who headed headed different intelligence organizations during his career. He is more than familiar with the convoluted poilitical and Byzantine nature of the games. This one just happened to backfire on him big time!
Have you ever heard the term "talking out your ass?" Well that's what you are doing. LOL
We hear what Trump says, of course we know. I have special names for his ass-speak.
But since you don't seem to understand the full implications of what is happening with Mueller's investigation, here is a quick read. Let me know if you want more. There is a lot more going on than meets the eye, if one wants to know what is really happening. If you are only interested in pushing Trump's 'fake news' bullshit, it is only going to get harder and harder as the circle tightens. Enjoy.
'Mr. Flynn. If you lie for us we will forgive you for lying to us.'
Is Michael Flynn a liar? Is there a mountain of evidence proving so? I would say yes to both.
Does Michael Flynn want to spend time in prison?
The Mueller team is made up of some of the shrewdest prosecutors and witch hunters in the country. The primary goal of the Mueller team is to get something against President Trump. So far all they have is egg on their faces.
Millions have been spent, they are running out of people to grill and papers to dissect. These are people who do not like to be embarrassed.
Using the testimony of someone who is testifying so that they do not suffer severe punishment for lying is an act of desperation.
Mueller Team: 'We did our job. We provided testimony directly implicating collusion between President Trump and the Russians. The choice to disregard the evidence was yours.'
An easy out when the investigation ends. The controversy will go on forever. It is much too simple to distrust the integrity of Congress.
A few people have made a lot of dollars and regardless of the final outcome, even if Trump is impeached, the people will still be left unsure of what was truth and what wasn't.
Top level lawyers are not really judged on their integrity and quest for truth. They all make claims of righteousness. Challenging such is a dangerous undertaking. These people got to the top by becoming the best at making the law work in their favor. Those who make what their employers want to be declared legally the truth the most often are considered the very best.
Flynn won't be told what to say, he knows what the prosecutors want. Dirt on Trump, pure and simple that's the bottom line.
Would be easy for Flynn to deliver. He is an experienced liar. All he has to do is take a couple of conversations with the President out of context, distort and embellish just a little bit, swear that it's the truth and voila he has delivered. Flynn lied to the F.B.I. to protect himself.
Does Michael Flynn want to go to prison?
The Justice system is the economic vehicle of lawyers. Winning is earning. To say that dishonesty, coercion, money changing hands, deals not being made at the highest levels isn't happening is nowhere near the truth.
From different things that I have read, it sounds like Flynn struck a deal, and plead - in order to keep part of his son's head of the block. (lying to the FBI seems to be a rather popular thing ...)
And the gist of the whole thing is........
1) Flynn "misled/misspoke" to the FBI
2) Holy shit a National Security Advisor was told to contact the Russians......and the whole of the UN security council during an administration transition (face palm OH NO
)
3) This still has nothing to do with any collusion
4) The whole of these breaking developments so far have nothing to do with actual collusion by the campaign before and during the campaign but rather, outing a few DC citizens because they lie. (Isn't that a pre-requisite of being able to reside in DC?)
But, let's let the #RESISTARDS have their dance..........for now............again. ( FIRE UP THAT GRILL. WE NEED SOME MORE NOTHING BURGERS)
Sorry, you aren't invited until the crow dessert which will most certainly be consumed soon. You may bring as many of your NT buds as you wish as there will be plenty to go around as the head count is taken daily to make sure we have enough.
Hope you like them made with mos....cow.
No dude he lied.....it was confirmed
No you know what the facepalm moment is that you willfully forgetting that Flyn WASNT NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR WHEN HE MADE THOSE PHONE CALLS! What authorization did he have to make those phone calls or even talk to Russian about policies? And if he is claiming he did who gave it to him? There are only 2 men that can give him authorization for that, Pence and Trump, and Pence didn't because he claims and the White House backs up the fact that Flynn lied to him and told him no phone call was made! So that leaves Trump!
3) This still has nothing to do with any collusion
Suuurreee they don't!...../s
As part of the transition team, Flynn was given the nod to contact foreign diplomats including the Russians, by someone up in the transition team. He did NOT do so until December 16, well into the schedule that should have been normal for ANY transition team. This has NOT A FUCKING THING to do with collusion during or with the campaign WHICH is what Mueller is charged with investigating. All he is finding so far are liars. Go figure. DC and a YUGE population of liars (yes including Mr. Trump). Some "people" want to turn back the goddamned clock and include December 2016 in August and September of 2016. It isn't going to happen. There is no campaign collusion but overzealous attempts to speed up and normalize relations between the world and the least anticipated administration since Dewey DIDN'T win. The only crime is wanting to hit the ground running and with a team of rookies who didn't expect to "WIN THE SUPERBOWL" in their rookie year, didn't take the time to examine all the rules. not good sure. Worthy of all the bullshit? Nope................
As all the bastards that get caught, make missteps, make bad decisions say, (mostly liberals who get caught) "now is not the time to point fingers but rather the time to come together". Reminds me of the previous POTUS who said over a thousand times while in office, "that's not who we are" while all the time turning his head (as the dems did in 2016 elections and forgetting the minor majority) wanting to shape and mold the US with ONLY his ideology. It didn't work and 2016 showed the supposed "majority" who and what the nation really is. No one is immune.
and BTW, there is no monetary cover charge for the dessert of crow at the Nothing Burger cookout. All we ask is that you bring your own Preparation H both to smooth over the butthurt as well as help you forget the "H", who lost, to the guy you so disdain.........to your own peril.
Final note, NO COLLUSION. Mueller isn't even on that road anymore. All he is doing is digging dirt with individuals HOPING that something will come up that justifies his and his 17 cronies and the exorbitant amount of money they are being paid for this "NOTHING BURGER".
We will see if this is Bush/Cheney or, Nixon, I'm betting on Nixon.
Another possibility exists.
Flynn wanted to avoid being totally wiped out financially so he took a deal that will get him out of further legal problems in return for telling the prosecutor all he did prior to the election and after. If all he knows has no evidence of illegal activity then Mueller gets nothing to prosecute.
The problem with that is that Mueller wouldn't have made a deal with Flynn if Flynn had nothing on ranking members of the campaign or, the administration.
They are desperate for anything to divert away from weeks of exposing liberal sexual predators including 2 Democrat Senators.
Mueller would never have made a deal with Flynn without knowing he had a lot more than what is currently known to the public.
You are wishful thinking my friend; Flynn has flipped and this is Mueller’s way of letting all who have any knowledge that the time has come to tell all.
Yep, sure.
And, just in case you think this is fake news and, want something more RW, here ya go
If Mueller is wanting to cut his losses he would. All he has on Trump people either happened prior to Trump's candidacy or in the case of Flynn a guy who doesn't have the money to fight a Martha Stewart crime. One that Comey gave him a pass on.
The more sensational charge would have been the one about his conversation with the ambassador. The problem with that is that it wasn't a crime. Leaking Flynn's name was! I wonder if Mueller will prosecute the Obama person who leaked?
we know he lied to investigators, got something knew?
he was charged for lying not for contacting a foreign country. he admitted the contacts. he wasn't doing anything wrong except lying about it to the investigators.
Which is what he pled guilty to.
Is it that difficult to follow?
NOTHING BURGER!!
No Mueller has more than that, he has a lot more. You should really check the story's coming out now concerning Flynn and, Kushner, there's more to this story than we know and, it is coming out. I was a teen during the Watergate scandal and, I remember how Nixon tried to play it and, how it finally ended, I see the same things happening here.
But when he tells all will there be anything illegal to prosecute? In order for collusion to be a crime the underlying act must be a crime. It's not illegal to dig dirt on a political opponent. So even the worst case of Trump ordering Flynn to get the Russians to go easy on retaliation wouldn't be a crime. Since it has been common knowledge that the Russians have been involved in our elections for decades it would be silly for Trump to ask them to do what they were already doing.
The Martha Stewart crime may well be all there is and Mueller is just cutting his loss. Got to justify spending millions with some results no matter how small.
This was the least of the charges against him, he has already decided to give evidence against Kushner and, others as I have stated and, shown links to above and, below. If you don't wish to believe your own eyes and, the evidence in the news today then, I can't help you.
You're beating a dead horse here, Mueller wouldn't have made a deal if Flynn didn't have criminal evidence against someone "high up in the administration", the quoted part if from the reporting today from Flynn and, Mueller.
In order for Kushner to be charged with a crime he would have had to have committed a crime. What is the crime he committed? Talking to a Russian about the election looking for dirt on Hillary?
Actually he would. It's why Scooter Libby went down. It was the only way for the special prosecutor to earn his money. Got to come up with convictions!
If lying to the FBI is all you can prove or get a person to confess to in order to protect his son and remaining assets then the prosecutor takes the win and moves on.
Flynn hasn't starting testifying yet, let's see what he brings when he does, I'm Wiccan not psychic.
Obstruction of Justice if nothing else!
Not to mention a possibility of connections of Trump to Russian money laundering … I emphasize "POSSIBILITY" … I ADMITTEDLY SPECULATE HERE … but if it turns out to be a reality, Flynn may know about it, ditto Manafort, Wilbur Ross, et al …
Once a special prosecutor is involved, ANYTHING THAT TURNS UP IS FAIR GAME!
And PENCE is going to have problems as well.
Flynn has already said he can testify to Kushner's guilt and, that is what he plans on doing, if anyone is Libby it would be Kushner, wanna bet Trump steps in before Kushner goes down?
What crime was committed?
Who obstructed anything? Nothing has been obstructed in this whole mess.
Money laundering? I thought this was about the Russians hacking the election?
I will also eat crow if the president is charged with any crime relating to the election.
Guilt of what?
That is what Mueller is finding out, WHEN HE IS DONE as has been stated many times on NT in different seeds, WE WILL LEARN WHAT CRIMES HAVE BEEN COMMITTED. Patience is a virtue.
Funny thing about that...it is being reported from several sources that he got his orders to contact the Russians from The Son in Law....
All the while Trump saying none of his team has had contact withe the Russians....so far how many charges and admissions of guilt?
Trump is in trouble.
Firing Comey by Trump and his pressuring members of the Senate to end the Flynn investigation … are efforts to obstruct justice. When Nixon perpetrated "The Saturday Night Massacre," the public outcry is what then brought him down … it was an obstruction of justice.
And in case anyone is wondering. In what way Russia constitutes a hostile foreign power ... interfering with an American Election might be a starter.
What crime caused his investigation?
The only one has been an illegal disclosure of a classified intercept by someone in the Obama administration.
A prosecutor given free reign and enough money will find a crime to prosecute. Just ask Scooter. The crimes will be nothing to do with Russia and the election. Nothing has been uncovered and since there was no crime between Trump and Russia nothing ever will.
And there is nothing illegal about contact with Russians. Jared could have had tea with Vlad and there would be nothing illegal about that.
They could talk about how much dirt the Russians had on her and no crime.
Collusion is only a crime if there is an underlying crime.
Not obstruction. Had he ordered Comey to end the investigation it could be. Comey could be fired at any time for any reason. It is only obstruction if there is a crime to obstruct the investigation of. There were no crimes to obstruct. Talking to the Russian ambassador? Not a crime. Until Flynn is convicted under the logan act he is innocent of violating the Logan act.
As for the senate? Since when do Republicans bow to pressure from anyone. They are not organized well enough to bow down to tie their own shoes.
Morning Mr. G ... I was just reading back through yesterdays comments that I missed (quitting smoking - sitting at my computer for any length of time does not make that easy : )
The jubilation I read regarding Flynn's plea agreement (?) reminds me of all the people cheering every time something new came out regarding H. and her emails.
I am wondering when Comey will (re)testify to give information regarding Trump and collusion w/actual proof... since he is the one that leaked info to start the ball rolling towards the Special Prosecutor. In his earlier testimony he repeatedly said something like 'I cannot answer that at this time'... shirley. if anyone has the smoking gun, it is Comey (?) perhaps? correct (?)
Remains to be seen, but my prediction is that 'if' Flynn is giving anyone up it is not Trump. prob not Kushner either .. remember, just my prediction
Have a great Saturday..
Hi...
Then, who do you think it will be? Trump, Jr?
My guess is Kushner.
Bannon (?) more info on Manafort (?) Hard to say (remember Flynn is neck deep in Turkey) - I just do not believe it will be regarding Trump or Kushner .. I do not feel this is the foot in the door to the White House for Mueller that I have read about...
Will happily eat my words, they are nothing but speculation on my behalf. But I feel the excitement will be met with a let down - someone would have leaked by now is there was a bombshell coming .... perhaps?
Hope you are having a great day Mag .. certainly is going to be interesting to see what unfolds in Mueller's investigation ... hopefully it does not take years .. Trump's term may be over before the investigation is complete.
This is an interesting read - I know you like to read so, you may have read this already..
Off topic, sorry. Did you go cold turkey or are you using something to abate the urges? Was thinking about trying to quit again myself, the problem I seem to have is that anytime there's a number of cold beers in the vicinity they practically light themselves.
You really don't get it, do you. The request came AFTER the election and well into December. It is absolutely normal for transition team members to contact high level members of other countries, Russia included. Obama did it, why can't Trump?
Oh, yea, his name is not Hillary, so that makes him bad....
Hey Greg ... no way cold turkey would make me crave big time, cannot use vapes, tried Chantix, I walked in my sleep (was scared I might drive) ... I am down to like 3'ish smokes a day (each one is lasting hours) - kicking the urges by getting up and doing something ...... have you ever walked into the kitchen and wondered why you went there? I have been doing a lot of that! House is looking good though - painting the mudroom in stages ... good thing I only have one colour to paint with at this time : ) lol!
Oddly enough I am beginning to light a smoke and put it out after one drag ... wait for it ... cuz the smoke is gross!
Awww yes .. I like my beer and coffee as well, a smoke goes hand and hand with these things!!! I am finding that having a drink / beer / coffee while standing is working. I have interrupted routine ... so far .. so good!
I have also found that throwing things away is helping - 25 years in one place .. ya collect things.. and even if the box is labeled, does not mean that is what is in it! : )
Think about the money --- what minimum of 240 a month? Corps are getting a TAX BREAK
they do not need 'our' money any longer : )
Best of luck .. I will send positive thought your way - our good friend Repo is vaping his way through it!!!
My bad for being off topic as well .. I accept the flogging!
Yea, they were there when Hillary was being questioned by the FBI and not even having to be under oath. Do you think if you had done what she had done you wouldn't have been under oath or they wouldn't have raided your house to get that server? What do you think they would have done had you destroyed the hard drives or the phones?
I guess Flynn should have hired someone else to collude with Russia like Clinton did, if he had the money, which he didn't, but instead he did as any incoming administration does, but his fears for his son and the SD's interrogation of him threatening him with outrageous charges without warrant made him to just want to get it over. Comey had already been down this same road with him and decided he did nothing illegal.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/fbi-reviewed-flynns-calls-with-russian-ambassador-but-found-nothing-illicit/2017/01/23/aa83879a-e1ae-11e6-a547-5fb9411d332c_story.html?utm_term=.688276ef9911
With justice out the window and the remnants of the Sicherheitsdienst taking their last stand, since the election didn't work out the way they wanted it to, they still have hope by hook or crook to still think they have a chance to make a comeback.
Ain't gonna happen!!!
Really wish I could Norm, but alas I cannot ... I bought really nice ones!
My GF has had great success with the vape pen - Do you feel like you have traded one habit for another? My GF feels like she has - but it is better (?) for her .. we have know each other for 35+ years, instead of a smoke, she has her pen.
What do you think about starting a 'meta' and read what has worked for other (???) support is part of the journey.... is it not?
Wish I could find a way!
Good luck, girlfriend.
Really? Then why did he feel the need to lie to the Vice President-elect of the United States if this in just "normal"?
Damn! I just saw this and was going to seed it.
Anyway...do you think he'll go to prison?
Most likely not. Probably part of the plea deal that he and his son avoid prison time in exchange for information about the bigger fish in the pond.
If he doesn't do any time, he must have choked up a huge amount of dirt on the Trump family and other various associated scumbags to get that good a deal.
If people in the Trump admin broke the law I have no problem with them going to jail, even if it's the big cheese himself.... as long as the Clintons, Loretta Lynch, the Podestas and anybody else tied to the Clinton crime family get matching orange jumpsuits.
1) to be a criminal, you have to be convicted of a crime, you know, like Flynn.
2) Once again, your deflection is not shocking at all.
Clinton has never even been charged with a crime, much less convicted. Flynn has been convicted, Manafort indicted, Popadopalous indicted, and Manaforts business buddy indicted as well. There is NO comparison between Clinton and these people. Your wet dream of locking Clinton up is over. As to the rest you mentioned, they didn't commit crimes no matter how much you want to believe they did. Face it, trumpski is going down, it's only a matter of time now.
Tell the Steinle family about somebody having to be convicted to be guilty. Hillary has never had an UNBIASED investigation on her. She's always had cheaters and liars running defense for her.
No, that's from the legal world.
Of FFS really? 9 REPUBLICAN led investigations....hey you are right, all the investigations WERE biased.....they were all republican led. By the way, did Trey Gowdy ever get Hillary's boot print off his forehead?
So, all those republican congressional investigations were rigged to find nothing on her? That's some kinda amazin' conspiracy confabulation you've got goin' there.
Not yet, he has been charged and entered a plea........in the legal world.
He plead GUILTY, he is admitting he broke the law, that's a conviction in any court in the world.
The conviction will occur when his sentence is issued.
Actually no, separate proceedings. After guilt has been found, the lawyers then change to showing that a lenient sentence should be applied. This could take days, weeks, or even months.
Based on what crime? And what's the evidence. You realize that you have been wrong about Trump since he first announced running??
Muller will let you know soon...patience. Obstruction of justice is a given.
Not necessarily, there are several affirmative defenses his attorney can argue while acknowledging guilt.
This is a process.
Aintagonnahappen, as the saying goes. Give it up, mandie. That dog aintagonnahuntnomore, as another saying goes.
This is HUGE! In the Charges against Flynn today, we now have confirmed that Flynn asked Kislyak to delay Russia's response to US sanctions imposed on 12/29/16, which is itself a crime. Trump Clearly knew this...
Exactly what is the crime? You sure like to throw out words you seemingly don't know the meaning. Crime being only one of them.
I wonder if Trump will continue to say that "Russia" is fake news.
Mueller is going after someone higher than Flynn. Is it Kushner, Don Jr. , Trump himself?
No one else left above Flynn.
Whoever it is it will be a bombshell when it comes down.
I think it will be Kushner. He's the smart one in the bunch. trump jr is too dumb to collude with anyone and the Russians know this
Being the "smart one" in this bunch is like being the best smelling turd in the bowl. Although, if it turns out he's also started spilling to Mueller's team when he met with them before Thanksgiving, he might actually be smart. I just wonder how Ivanka will feel when Daddy's frog marched out of the WH.
Somehow my scrambled eggs and turkey bacon seem much less savory this morning.
No John, it will amount to a weak fart in a windstorm.
Flynn is officially characterized as cooperating with the Mueller investigation. Ouch.
Read this tweet and the letter that goes with it. Pence is fucked.
To break this down to it's most basic level? Flynn flipped and Muller wouldn't have flipped him if he didn't have solid, credible and damning evidence against a bigger fish in the pond like, Kushner, Jr. Pence or trumpski.
.
In short, trump is screwed and he knows it.
A jailhouse snitch will sing any tune to get a deal. If there is so much dirt on Trump why didn't Manafort cut a deal too?
Patience. Also Manafort was indicted on charges not (really) related to the trump/russia investigation. Muller wants the big fish, er, orange, manafort in this game isn't the big dog.
I find it funny that you are now calling flynn a liar for admitting that he lied to the FBI, anything to cover for trump eh? Mando, even you have to admit that this is devastating news for the trump admin.
And you know he hasn't? Just two days ago we got word that Mueller agreed to releasing him from house arrest. Now this from Flynn. Funny coinkydink?
Manafort can afford attorneys, Flynn can't.
“Yes, sir, we heard that Flynn is cooperating with Mueller’s investigation. No, sir, they won’t let you play golf in federal prison.”
Looks like he had an "accident".
Omigawd....it's President Poopypants! Must be those five burrito bowls before tee time.
Yep! Someone needs to change the presidential diaper...I nominate Flynn to take care of it.
With Mike Flynn pleading guilty, who will get stuck cleaning up Donald's "accidents"? Depends...
<groans>
Remember when trump said the trump/russia investigation was all a hoax?
"Swing and a miss".
What a shock, while fox news is finally running this story, no comments are allowed.. They suppress free speech to protect donny's ego...sad.
I thought you ignored Fox News?
When did I say that?
Flynn on the campaign trail with trump: "If I had done a 10th of what Clinton had done, I would be in jail today!!!! Lock her up!!!"
Hey flynn? Look up the word, "irony".
I'm sure its possible Mueller, is holding back evidence and proceeding totally at odds with how most experienced prosecutors would handle an actual criminal collusion case, but so far, seems like he's going after process crimes rather than actual criminal activity:
Nevertheless, as I explained in connection with George Papadopoulos (who also pled guilty in Mueller’s investigation for lying to the FBI), when a prosecutor has a cooperator who was an accomplice in a major criminal scheme, the cooperator is made to plead guilty to the scheme. This is critical because it proves the existence of the scheme. In his guilty-plea allocution (the part of a plea proceeding in which the defendant admits what he did that makes him guilty), the accomplice explains the scheme and the actions taken by himself and his co-conspirators to carry it out. This goes a long way toward proving the case against all of the subjects of the investigation.
That is not happening in Flynn’s situation. Instead, like Papadopoulos, he is being permitted to plead guilty to a mere process crime. A breaking report from ABC News indicates that Flynn is prepared to testify that Trump directed him to make contact with the Russians — initially to lay the groundwork for mutual efforts against ISIS in Syria. That, however, is exactly the sort of thing the incoming national-security adviser is supposed to do in a transition phase between administrations. If it were part of the basis for a “collusion” case arising out of Russia’s election meddling, then Flynn would not be pleading guilty to a process crime — he’d be pleading guilty to an espionage conspiracy.
Understand: If Flynn’s conversations with the Russian ambassador had evinced the existence of a quid pro quo collusion arrangement — that the Trump administration would ease or eliminate sanctions on Russia as a payback for Russia’s cyber-espionage against the Hillary Clinton campaign and the Democratic party — it would have been completely appropriate, even urgently necessary, for the Obama Justice Department to investigate Flynn. But if that had happened, Mueller would not be permitting Flynn to settle the case with a single count of lying to FBI agents. Instead, we would be looking at a major conspiracy indictment, and Flynn would be made to plead to far more serious offenses if he wanted a deal — cooperation in exchange for sentencing leniency.
To the contrary, for all the furor, we have a small-potatoes plea in Flynn’s case — just as we did in Papadopoulos’s case, despite extensive “collusion” evidence. Meanwhile, the only major case Mueller has brought, against former Trump-campaign chairman Paul Manafort and an associate, has nothing to do with the 2016 election. It is becoming increasingly palpable that, whatever “collusion” means, there was no actionable, conspiratorial complicity by the Trump campaign in the Kremlin’s machinations. READ MORE:
Read more at:
I wouldn't expect anything else from Andrew McCarthy, one of the most ideological 'pundits' there is.
If he's trying to prove Trump participated in conspiracy to collude with Russia, why hasn't anyone plead guilty to engaging in an actual conspiracy?
Actually, by comparison, Nixon resigned long before this time in his presidency. Trump's ego is the only thing keeping him in office at this point.
Nixon's conspirators plead guilty to engaging in an actual criminal conspiracy when they reached plea agreements. Trump's employees plead guilty to lying about non-criminal acts to the FBI.
If you can't see the difference between those things.....
I like this one just because it's fun
Judge Napolitano on @ FoxNews right now about the Flynn charges: "This is probably the tip of a prosecutorial iceberg. This is a nightmare for Donald Trump."
President Obama told trump to not hire Flynn. Pretty ironic that Flynn is likely going to be that piece of the puzzle that see's trump impeached.
trump hired Flynn precisely because Pres Obama told him not to
Trump fired Sally Yates for warning him about Flynn and fired Comey for not letting Flynn walk.
TWO COUNTS OF "OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE".
I completely forgot about Ms Yates. Thanks for the reminder
Indeed. Bahara, Yates and Comey, all heads of the trump/russia investigation....all fired by trump. People know this and it's why trump now won't fire Muller because he KNOWS people will scream that trump is guilty. Honestly, if trump is innocent, why would he want to stop the investigation? Makes no sense at all.
......was fired for refusing to do her job , re the supposed muslim ban. (since ruled by the courts as not a "Ban")
......was fired for lying to congress. (in testimony that he gave, in relation to lying to the VP, the CoS and the WHPS causing them to give false statements to the media which they had to retract)
Unfortunately for all the T-Rump grave dancers, this has absolutely nothing to do with any supposed collusion with Russia over the election. Or any "Obstruction of Justice" in relation to the same.
Speculation is just speculation, it is not fact however many times you repeat it.
Or Obama excoriated ? Wonder why Obama told Trump not to hire Flynn. Was Flynn Actually doing MOST of his thing during the Obama era ?
Obama knew flynn was a bad seed and fired him. Either trump hired flynn as a "fuck you" to Obama, or, trump hired him because of his already deep ties to russia. Either way, trump screwed the pooch big time and now it's coming back to bite him on the ass.
I hear that Trump Fired him too.
"Honestly, if trump is innocent, why would he want to stop the investigation?"
If this "Investigation" was Honest, I'd be with ya. So far......nothing seems honest !
Money issues by OTHERS......waaaaaay before the Trump campaign for President......REALLY ?
Sounds like a Scootey Libby thing, before we found out SOMEONE else actually outed Valarie ! Scootey got the lying charge too....not an outing charge.
Like NO ONE in congress LIES ! Pffffffft.
What a Fucking Joke this so-called "Investigation" is so far !
Yes trump fired him, the point is why did he hire him in the first place, then try to get comey to lay off of Flynn? Weird huh?
Is it dishonest because you have proof that this investigation is based on lies, or, is it dishonest because it doesn't fit your political agenda? If you have proof that this investigation is 'dishonest', by all means, show us the proof. Something tells me that Flynn would not agree with you that the investigation is 'dishonest', if it was, he would NEVER have plead guilty.
You actually asked that question ?
Show me the actual "Collusion".
In simpler terms ............."Where's the BEEF !
You mean other than what flynn just plead guilty to?
Flynn Pled guilty to actual political collusion (since that is what the investigation was SUPPOSED to be about)?
Ya gotta show me that one. I'd be very interested in reading that.
Crickets my friend is all you'll get............
They probably fell hook, line and sinker for that ABC report that ABC had to finally "Clarify", who later had to friggin finally call it .....a "CORRECTION"..... after getting slammed on a report they did Friday, that flat out "LIED" about Trump, Flynn and Russia's so-called connection.
Of course that report went viral, so it's out there, even though it was and IS a Big Fucking LIE !
Obama fired Flynn because of his compromised connection to Kaspersky software which was determined to be a security risk to U.S. agencies using it ... including Flynn’s.
All the while, Flynn was getting money from Kaspersky who is connected to Putin.
Sadly and dangerously, there is much the American public does not know, does not care to know, and/or is lied to about; I am a political junkie and follow in detail the kind of situations that ultimately fuck our country ... and I am regularly frustrated and outraged that my attempts to tell people the realities ... are doubted, mocked and met with ignorance.
Most who play the “fake news” card actually mock the truth while believing the bullshit of those who have duped them. That phenomenon and the reason they are such gullible targets ... is a whole other story.
He may have fired him, but apparently, since the FBI was keeping tabs on Flynn, he didn't do anything against our security. I'm sure the FBI would have been all up in his pants if he had. He just took money he didn't report and lied about it, and the reports are saying it was "Possible" he could have been influenced. Haven't read anything that says "Flynn was Influenced himself, or that he colluded with the "RUSSIANS" to Influence the election".
I will speculate that much of what is known by Mueller is not being revealed publicly as part of a strategy to get to the bigger fish.
Flynn may have been involved in a plan to kidnap a Turkish cleric now living in Pennsylvania and send him ILLEGALLY back to Turkey in a deal with Turkey's regime … FOR $15 million.
And he was working as a foreign agent WHILE HOLD THE POSITION OF NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR IN THE WHITE HOUSE!
There are any number of punishable felonies for which Flynn could be convicted and imprisoned … Mueller wants the bigger "fish" of which there are, by my calculations, only three. Like investigations into organized crime, deals are made at the peripheries and work their way to the center … to the big fish.
Catch a Red Snapper and put a hook in it to nail the Giant Grouper!
Should have already happened, if that were the case and it was THAT serious. The FBI shouldn't have waited this long, unless there is an agenda to all the stupidity going on in DC.
Would Flynn and a couple others have been looked at and drilled in this manner if Hillary was elected ?
Just a weird thought....but I would suspect....emphatically....the answer would be a big fat N.O. ! There wouldn't be a reason.....right ?
Who knew....what-ifs CAN be fun !
Yeah, Flynn probably should have just followed Obama Administration cabinet rules and kept pleading the fifth.
Signed,
Ronald Reagan.
But his deposition did reveal startling gaps in the memory of the 79-year-old former president. In all, Reagan said ``I don`t recall`` or ``I can`t remember`` 88 times in the eight hours of testimony taken Feb. 16-17 in Los Angeles.
Well, i can help you catch up on more current events. You know, some that aren't 30+ years old.
- Lois Lerner
- John Beale
- Susan Rice
- Loretta Lynch
Shall i keep going?
Please do. It's funny as hell to watch you rightwingers dig up your old bones hoping some meat miraculously appeared on them. We could've predicted this would happen when your Criminal-in-Chief's crimes started to get hot.
But his deposition did reveal startling gaps in the memory ...88 times in the eight hours of testimony taken Feb. 16-17 in Los Angeles.
Shit, Hillary blew by that pace during her testimony to the FBI. 40 times in 3 hours makes Reagan look like he has a photographic memory, by comparison.
Hilarious! I'm digging up old bones?
Please stop it. You are making my sides hurt from laughing so hard.
Doesn't seem to stop you cons from bringing up Bill Clinton 20 years down the road.
If you want, none of those people are even charged with a crime...you know, like Flynn, Manafort, Popdopalous and price. Also, none of them even work for the government anymore.
And there it is..."But......But.......But......HILLARY!!!!"
When you got nothing, deflect.
Why do you keep embarrassing yourself? Speaking of deflection, you bring up Reagan, and then you hide behind the "but Hillary" defense because your point was shown to be garbage by a much more recent example? At least I hope you have the sense enough to be embarrassed when you pollute this board with such a transparent, juvenile ploy.
Good gawd, you do know what pleading the fifth is right?
Flynn plead guilty to lying to the FBI about his contacts with Russians.. Deal with it.
Did i bring up any Clinton examples from 20 years ago? No i did not but i did bring up all examples from the previous Obama administration. You on the other hand brought up examples from the Reagan era, before Clinton. So whats your point? I don't see that you have a good one.
At this point i can't tell if you are being serious or simply drunk posting .....
You'd better clarify that allegation or request it be removed!
What's that the rightists are always saying? Oh yea... "We won, you lost." Well that and........
.
Tissue?
so true
No I don't think so it's the same thing as calling all Trump supporters RWNJ or any other name they use so NO.
You have alluded to SPECIFIC MEMBERS … a different degree of insult.
May I ask for my own knowledge.......how is saying 4 or 5 alluding to specific members?
oh good grief.....do you know how many times, especially one member has said,
"the RWNJ on this site....."
did that bunch your panties?
You very well know who they are Mac!
He didn't mention names so it is a generalized statement.
"ON THIS SITE"
Go get your own tissues..
Sure, I read it. But, he didn't say names and most of us are middle aged.
Your decision.
As I have written here many times, MUVA, "Although anatomically speaking, buttocks have a 2:1 ratio over anuses, nevertheless, there are way more assholes on earth than there are buttocks!"
But it does not serve discussion nor NT well, to use ad hominem comments in place of content-related rebuttal … which, when skillfully and accurately leveled in the course of dispute, is both objectively effective, and, speaks well of its author.
Peace.
Here is Flynn's statement
It sounds to me like they are reserving the right to charge him with something more significant unless he comes up with some incriminating information about others.
Yeah....but, he has to come up with something substantial and very serious, or he would be in even more trouble. No...Flynn has to possess knowledge of something BIG and PROVABLE to accuse a sitting president of an illegality. I doubt he has the goods to do so.
Benedict Arnold did many brave things in service to our young country,
butt the moment he began negotiations with the British and impugned the defenses of West Point,
he negated all of those heroic sacrifices.
Flynn should, (and probably does) know that.
To choose the Russians over a different American political parties' values?
Really? He could make that choice under duress of Trump's direction?
Probably not........he seems to have been "available" for the highest bidder for some time. (Turkey)
Traitor indeed, not withstanding his early history, but judged on his most recent behavior.
"Not me, or anyone on my campaign met with any Russians!!!! It's all FAKE NEWS!!!"
--Donald Trump.
But, but, BENGHAZI!!
And what crime did they commit by meeting with Russians?
Muller is figuring that out as we speak...but i'll bite. If there was nothing illegal about meeting with the Russians, why did they all LIE about it?
Because Flynn was hiding his Ukraine money. The real crime that he now has a pass for.
Has trump issued a strongly worded tweet from Golf Cart One yet?
Just being reported now that part of Flynn's plea deal is that he cannot plead the 5th and must answer all questions. Keep in mind folks, he AGREED to this.
Trump is upset by this, won't even touch his mcnuggets.
One stupid mistake....._Pres. Trump allowing his family to be part of the WH before the election and afterwards. Their one function should have been handing out fliers. They have put him in a very precarious situation.
Very true. If Muller squeezes Kushner the way he squeezed Flynn and he admits that he instructed Flynn to meet with the Russians regarding sanctions, is Trump REALLY going to be able to say he had no knowledge of it? Trump is a micro-manager, if Kushner told Flynn to meet with the Russians, you can damn sure bet Donny knew about it.
Honestly, that may not entirely apply.
Pres. Trump foolishly allowed Kushner to write his own ticket and putting him in authority to do what he thought best. Kushner and Ivanka moving to D.C. Stupid!
I know he loves his family, but give me a break!
Depends on what Kushner says. If he rolls over on Donny and says that Donny DID know about it, Donny is screwed. I am no lawyer, but from what I have read over the years, when investigators ask someone a question, most of the time they already know the answer, they are just trying to catch the person in a lie. Donny's ego won't allow him to ever admit fault, or guilt. If he is questioned and he lies? Not good.
I think Norman is right in his assessment that there’s more smoke here than fire. Flynn plead guilty to lying about the nature of his conversation, not to conspiracy. Any incoming administration is going to talk to foreign nationals about current policy because they’re basically expected to step into a game already in play. That’s true for the Russians, Chinese, Israelis, Turks, etc.
That doesn’t mean that there was a quid pro quo. In this instance, Putin had a reason to embarass Hillary. She had previously accused him of winning his election by rigging it. Her statement caused civil unrest in Russia. Having evidence that Hillary was actually rigging her own primary would be the perfect revenge, whether Trump won the election or not.
Hillary is an attorney and a much more accomplished liar than the Trump clowns so I’m not surprised that their clumsiness gets them into more trouble than her.
Actually, trump lies 4x as much as Hillary does. Nice try.
Think again. There’s a difference between lying and babbling information that you think is true. Nobody could out-lie Hillary Clinton. She has been lying for over 40 years straight and, if put to a lie dectector, would probably cause it to short out.
You are confused.
.
Before you scream that the site is a "left wing rag", (etc.), I would invite you to go through the extensive list of lies trump has told and tell us which ones aren't lies. Good luck. Even fox news during the campaign said that trump "has a strange relationship with the truth".
.
I know what you are trying to say though, if it's a republican, they are just talking without knowing the facts, but if it's a democrat doing the same thing, it's a lie. Got ya, good talk.
Trump has been lying his entire life, and you are aware the trump is older than Hillary, right?
First trump says that no one on his campaign talked to or had any meetings with any Russians, which was an obvious flat out lie. Now he he saying, "there was no collusion!!!". If he lied about meetings with Russians, he would most certainly lie about collusion. And if there was nothing illegal going on with all these meetings trump and his band of idiots, why would they ALL lie about the meetings? Jr. Said the meetings were about adopting kids....which was yet another lie. If trump and the rest of the people in the Putin/Trump Crime Syndicate will lie about the meetings, you can bet that they will lie about the content of those meetings.
Wow, Trump OPENLY colluded with Russia, and OPENLY tried to obstruct justice. How can anyone with a scrap of honor try to say otherwise? This is a perfect example of why you can't discuss anything with the right, they literally live in their own fantasy world.
If you read the comments on this article, it's pretty clear that the only way the right can defend trump/flynn is by reaching into the bag and name dropping democrats. "But But But...Hillary!!!". It's all they have.
Yes, the deflection is the main part of it, but many of them deny any wrongdoing by Trump and ask for evidence, when Trump's own statements are some of the best evidence.
So trump tweeted this morning that he fired flynn because he lied to the FBI.... So...wait, trump just admitted that he knew flynn lied to the FBI. Trump is really that stupid? Effing priceless.
It doesn't seem to bother Trump at all to contradict his previous lies with new ones!
For people saying that Muller is just out to get Trump because he is biased?
.
Mueller Removed Top F.B.I. Agent Over Possible Anti-Trump Texts
WASHINGTON — The special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, removed a top F.B.I. agent from his investigation into Russian election meddling after the Justice Department’s inspector general began examining whether the agent had sent text messages that expressed anti-Trump political views, according to three people briefed on the matter.
The agent, Peter Strzok, is considered one of the most experienced and trusted F.B.I. counterintelligence investigators. He helped lead the investigation into whether Hillary Clinton mishandled classified information on her private email account, and then played a major role in the investigation into links between President Trump’s campaign and Russia.
But Mr. Strzok was reassigned this summer from Mr. Mueller’s investigation to the F.B.I.’s human resources department, where he has been stationed since. The people briefed on the case said the transfer followed the discovery of text messages in which Mr. Strzok and a colleague reacted to news events, like presidential debates, in ways that could appear critical of Mr. Trump.
A lawyer for Mr. Strzok declined to comment. A spokeswoman for the Justice Department said that “we are aware of the allegation and are taking any and all appropriate steps.”
Mr. Strzok’s reassignment shows that Mr. Mueller moved swiftly in the face of what could be perceived as bias by one of his agents amid a politically charged inquiry into Mr. Trump’s campaign and administration. But the existence of the text messages is likely to fuel claims by Mr. Trump that the F.B.I. has a bias against him and that he is a target of the “deep state” — a term used to describe the notion that government intelligence agencies secretly conspire together.
I guess that puts to bed the accusation that Muller has no integrity or is biased.
Mueller's integrity is legendary; challenging it is ridiculous. But then, ridiculous is exactly what today's right wingers are, totally ridiculous