Billy Graham, one of the world's most famous Christian evangelists, has died
Billy Graham, one of the world's most famous Christian evangelists, has died, a family spokesman said today. He was 99.
Graham died at his home this morning, the spokesman said
http://abcnews.go.com/US/evangelist-billy-graham-dies-99/story?id=53241650
US evangelist Billy Graham - one of the most influential preachers of the 20th Century - has died aged 99.
Graham became one of the best-known promoters of Christianity, preaching to audiences worldwide in large arenas, beginning in London in 1954.
Over 60 years, he is estimated to have personally preached to 210 million people.
At first sceptical of the civil rights movement in the US, he went on to become a supporter in the 1950s.
He became a committed Christian at the age of 16 after hearing a travelling evangelist and was ordained a minister in 1939.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43142263
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Billy Graham was a counselor to presidents prior to the politicization of the evangelical faith. Which is probably why he was widely respected while those like his son are not.
well also he wasnt much of a political person. I was just listening to story that was told by his daughter ( i think) Billy was talking with some President. ( im going ot have to find this story again) anyways Billy was starting to say something politically, and he was given a kick from , i think his wife , under the table. She told him you let the politicians do the politics, and you do the preaching..
IM guessing he never wanted to get another kick in the shin :D The man had focus that never wavered, that much is certain.
Not true even he admits and regrets his political involvement.
Ouch, didn't know about the anti-semitism, but am not at all surprised.
I always kinda expected he was anti-semitic
In 2002, some audio recordings of Nixon and Graham in the White House surfaced. The tapes were made in 1972 without Graham’s knowledge and reveal him expressing anti-Semitic views.
In 2002, Graham apologized for the remarks.
Proving the old adage that it's much easier to ask for forgiveness from your followers for being a bigot, than to ask for permission from your followers to be a bigot.
He was actually pretty typical for a mid-1950s bigoted southerner once he became a Southern Baptist - he supported racial segregation even at his own rallies, opposed women's rights and opposed women being preachers, was antisemitic and rather profoundly homophobic. While he did evolve on most of those issues the homophobia he took to his grave and instilled in his son. However I'm not sure where his son learned to be such an Islamophobe except from the atmosphere of the SBC and right-wing nuttery. I don't think his dad taught him that.
So the general consensus seems to be that despite the smooth public manners and soothing, Southern drawl, Graham was just another basic rightwing, homophobic, anti-semitic snake oil peddler that have blighted our history from the beginning.
RIP, Reverend Graham
Well, he was a member of the Moral Majority that has done significant damage to the country on everything from teen prengnancy rates, to civil rights for gays directly (and several other issues indirectly), so I won't exactly miss him. Still though, he wasn't as much of an asshole as Jerry Falwell. My condolences to his family.
He wasnt a political person. He took no sides. He just preached the Gospel. A true evangelist.
Not saying he was political, but he did influence presidents and politicians, as well as voters, and that influence has had some very negative outcomes when it comes to politics.
Like what ?
"Every U.S. President since World War II has met with Billy Graham. Both Johnson and Nixon, the two who probably sought him the most, offered him high positions in government — which he quickly and politely refused."
A Snippet of Presidents:
Harry S. Truman
Dwight D. Eisenhower
John F. Kennedy
Lyndon B. Johnson
Richard M. Nixon
Gerald R. Ford
Jimmy Carter
Ronald Reagan
George H. W. Bush
William J. Clinton
Barack Obama — President Barack Obama visited Billy Graham at his Montreat, N.C. home at the end of his weekend mountain vacation in April 2010. He is the first sitting president to meet with Graham at his home, where the two of them had a private prayer time and some conversation. A White House spokesman said that the president was “extraordinarily gratified that he (Mr. Graham) took the time to meet with him.” Mr. Graham said he was pleased to have had the president visit his home.
Read my initial post for a couple of examples.
Preaching one to be "Self Responsible"....isn't a problem. It's only a thorn in the Liberal thought process.
There is NO SUCH THING as an "EVERYONE DESERVES TO BE HAPPY" Trophy ! That's not what "Diversity" is all about.
skirting the CoC [ph]
I'd like to know what those "very negative outcomes" regarding "politics" are, too. As far as I know, the only "negative" about Graham was when he and Truman locked horns but then resolved their differences.
Now wasn't that a special comment !
Trophy ?
See 5.1.5 Comment.
And sadly it made more sense than your post, or whatever you want to call that. All I can assume is that you don't think using birth control is being responsible, and that apparently wanting equal rights is somehow the same as a participation trophy or something.
Read my initial post, I list 2 very specific examples.
I DO NOT think anything that has to be government mandated ....... is a good thing towards being "Personal Responsibility".
Have you needed someone to FORCE you to be responsible for yourself ?
You see...."Personal Responsibility" means you CAN personally.....Think about and do responsible things ALL BY YOUR LITTLE FUCKING SELF !
Dont forget Queen Elizabeth.. That was a big thing too.
She's still Anglican. He didn't go a very good job of converting her to Southern Baptist, did he?
Rev. Graham didn't have to "convert" Queen Elizabeth in any way. They shared the same Christian beliefs and were very good friends.
http://people.com/royals/queen-elizabeth-real-life-friendship-evangelist-billy-graham/
No matter how ardently non-believers try to dissect and/or demean valid Christian denominations, all valid Christian denominations hold the same basic belief - that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and the only way to achieve eternal life with God is through His Son.
Ya know...I don't remember commenting to you. How about you stop commenting to me and you won't have to work so hard to be "nice"
That's highly unlikely. I wonder why you need to believe that, though.
I reread NT's CoC to see if I missed the rule stating that one member shouldn't comment to another member unless having been commented to first, but I couldn't find anything about this.
Contrary to what you seem to believe about me, I've never needed to work hard at being nice, because from childhood, kindness has always been a part of my nature. I learned that life is far too short and valuable, so that's why I don't make hostile, angry comments even when someone ridicules or attacks me. Some may view this as being weak, but it has served me very well in my career and personal life.
I hope that you have a pleasant weekend.
Your opinion.
I merely referenced what I'd read in the link I provided. Here it is again:
http://people.com/royals/queen-elizabeth-real-life-friendship-evangelist-billy-graham/
I'm trying to avoid you because I don't think you are a nice person
I wouldn't worry about it Jasper. There are some people here that think you are mean if all you do is disagree with them. The first thing they do is yell and scream that they don't want you to respond to them. Funny thing is almost all of them if not all of them tend to from the left.
It saddens me that you feel this way about me, because I've never been rude or unkind to you on a personal basis and have replied to the content of your comments in an on-topic manner.
One positive aspect about social/news media sites like NewsTalkers is that users have the capability to ignore another user if they don't think that person is "nice".
Oh, jeezus, just shut up already!
Billy's son Franklin is much more of a social values activist than his father though both are fundamentalists. One of the areas where they disagreed was homosexuality. Billy saw gays as run of the mill sinners no worst than those who suffer lust or greed or glutton but not olde Frank. Nope, Franklin is more of a "God Hates Gays" sort of guy. I once heard Billy Graham expound upon his views on this and he was not hard core anti-gay like Franklin is. He preached that all were hopeless sinners undeserving of grace and that it was by grace alone that any of us are saved through the redemptive love of Christ's sacrifice. Billy was much more nuanced on the subject of lust in all of its many colored iterations. That probably comes from his years on the road as a tent preacher. A lot like Barry Goldwater did, Billy Graham in his later years mellowed his social views and even expressed frustration with the fact that the conservative movement, Christian activists in Graham's case, had been hijacked by hateful fundies...
I am not saying he was vehemently anti-homosexual like his moron son, simply that his views on gays and gay marriage especially were pretty clear, and given the level of influence he had within the Christian right, his opinions carried weight. And that weight was used to deny equal rights for gays for many years.
That bullshit is so absurdly and patently bullshit that it's almost funny.
See my comment about that upthread. Graham taught his son to be a homophobe and took his own homophobia to his grave. While he did apologize for a few of the more vile things he said, he was still quite a vile bigot.
Repeating the teachings of Jesus against ALL sins including sexual sins (which includes homosexual behavior) is not a phobia.
If he had not done so he would be rebuked by God
Mr. Graham avoided involvement in many of the causes dear to the hearts of such conservative Christian groups as the Moral Majority, arguing that many of these issues, were political questions, not spiritual or moral ones.
Which is in direct contradiction to our Constitution. The blending of religion and politics has been total toxic for this country.
Just how was Mr. Graham in direct contradiction to our Constitution? He didn't involve himself in causes that were political. I suggest you read my statement again, you either misread it of failed to comprehend what I said.
Billy Graham: What A Life! The name itself became uniquely the brand and Icon. The man need never appear after all those years of service. So what if there are stray moments of indiscretion, stray statements, strong biting commentary, and hard religious opinions? Consider the body of work!
"Billy, I remember you as a little baptist schoolboy laying on the floor watching your televised crusades, well up into my teens. You really packed them in! You really showed you cared and how much you meant it. That life happened to you, well, stuff happens to all of us - especially those pressed by the throngs!
Folks, the only thing wrong with Mr. Billy Graham is this: He got old. And that's a problem we all can hope to cherish! I can't resent a good man for getting old.
Mr. Billy Graham: You done good! I tip my hat to you!
Have I given anything today Have I helped some needed soul on the way From the dawn 'till setting sun have I wounded anyone Shall I weep for what I've done today
I thought that old bible thumper was already dead.
RIP Rev. Graham. Like him or hate him, no one can say he wasn't dedicated.
If we find out what his net worth came then we can decide just what he was most dedicated to.
Billy Graham was not wealthy. He lived in the same home for over 50 years. He rightly condemned the prosperity gospel
I guess 25 million is just pocket change.
We had a one hour a week bible class when I was in grade school, we got a star on a chart if we said we went to church that week. I told bible teacher I didn't go to church but watched Billy Graham on TV, she said that did not count and would not give me a star. Funny how hearing he died and that came to mind and pissed me off again.
Just another reason I don't like churches
skirting the CoC [ph]
Skirting the CoC [ph]
So you don't like churches because of ONE messed up Bible teacher? Surely there must be other reasons.
that's just one small one of many
Not doubting you but I find this odd, I'm no spring chicken but not once in any of many schools I attended was there ever prayer or bible classes or anything like that. Just weirds me out that there were schools out there that did (I'm assuming you were attending public schools)
was in mid 60s, they came to our regular classroom. Then it stopped. Later they bought some old school buses and parked at edge of school property and did that for a while at grade schools
This was public school in northwestern part of Virginia
one regular teacher told us don't complain about it because it gave teachers a break. Whole thing was mostly a goof off time
The technically "off campus" bible study is still going on in VA and WV, particularly in a few rural schools. I think the FFRF has a current complaint filed against a school in WV, but the judge threw out the case after the school temporarily "suspended" the program to avoid the lawsuit. The bible-babblers play that game a lot.
Oregon, too. It's an indoctrination project. It's like pedophiles offering candy to the kids. They literally do load the kids up with crappy snacks and give them an excuse to get off school grounds in the hopes of snaring at least a few of them. It's diabolical but it's a proven method.
That makes sense, I didn't start school until 67