There are those who think teachers shouldnt be allowed to strike. 

How then would they ever get a pay raise in some of these states? 

Here in Colorado, tax increases are up to the voters. It's also a purple state, so the Republicans don't have control. I routinely vote down any tax increase for education if they don't precisely explain where and for what the money will be going. Teachers have cushy and well paid jobs for what they do. But they are never satisfied.

Teachers have cushy and well paid jobs for what they do

My guess is that you would last minutes in the job and complain loudly about the pay, conditions and hours. If it is such a great deal what is holding you back from considering it?

Do you actually know any teachers? Would they say they have it really good? It has always amazed me that the easier a job is the more it pays and vice versa. Simply exercising control over a group of thirty children that have been exposed to very limited discipline at home is beyond taxing and then you have a high expectation of educating them. A cushy overpaid job would have high retention, guess what field doesn't. Become a substitute and up the perspective, then you can speak from experience. I would bet a change in attitude would be evident.

My guess is that you would last minutes in the job and complain loudly about the pay, conditions and hours. If it is such a great deal what is holding you back from considering it?

I am not the topic here, so please stay on it as JR suggests, and not make personal attacks please. I know very well what teachers have to deal with, which is why I would never become one. I am also happily retired and living the good life.

Teachers have cushy and well paid jobs for what they do. But they are never satisfied.

skirting the CoC [ph]

So you believe that launching an attack and proclaiming that the members of a profession are spoiled and whiny ingrates, but you are insulated from any criticism of your position is a personal attack. How delicate.

I know very well what teachers have to deal with, which is why I would never become one. I am also happily retired and living the good life.

Aren't you the guy that just said:

Teachers have cushy and well paid jobs for what they do. But they are never satisfied.

Well which is it, Jethro?

the fact that they have it pretty good.

I suppose to an unemployed undereducated trailer park welfare recipient $35,000 a year sounds like a lot of money. You try to handle a room full of children for 7 hours a day, 5 days a week where you're expected to bring work home if you're to keep up on curriculum, all for about $12 an hour after taxes. Then you get back to us on teachers having it "pretty good".

That does not negate the fact that they have it pretty good.

Actually what a lot of people fail to realize is that the situation varies a lot from place to place. A teacher I know from NY  retired a while back with a nice apt (elevator, doorman, great neighbourhood) kept it and in addition bought a house in Florida (which she furnished with expensive furniture).

The state provided TDA (Tax Deferred Anniuty) at one point was worth $1000 (when she retired the market declined-- so she was left with a TDA of about $800.00-- not taxed until she would draw money out).

In addition to that, she receives a good income from her pension-- an income for life without working.

Her medical coverage is incredible-- she had to have an MRI several years ago-- the bill was Over $800. Her co-pay? A total of $10!  A months supply of most medication has a co-pay of usually $5 or so-- usually under $12.

The only negative is the job is really. really  tough.

However, NYC teachers only had\ve to work half a year-- 186 days...well, deduct from that 10 days paid sick leave. And the work day is from 8:40 to 3 PM.

In addition to lunch, teachers get one 45 min. period a day free within that 8:40-3 time frame. (Beginning teachers often have to take work home-- experienced teachers often do not).

Teachers can retire with full pension benefits at 55.

I had no idea what the current NYC salary is, so I googled it.

P,S: As mentioned, I am aware of the fact that in many other areas teachers are not paid a living wage. However NYC has a very , very strong union.

I had no idea what the current NYC salary is, so I googled it.

Here's what NYC teachers earn for that half year they work (and remember, they leave at 3, and can retire at 55):

For 2018-19, starting salaries for teachers will range from $56,711 (bachelor’s degree, no prior teaching experience) to $85,794 (master’s degree, eight years teaching experience, plus additional coursework). Teachers’ salaries increase each year for more experience as well as education.

New teachers with a master’s degree but no prior teaching experience will earn $63,751.

The facts disagree with you. Colorado teachers salaries are below average.

A new report shows mid- and late-career teacher base salaries are so “painfully” low, many full-time teachers qualify for federal assistance.

The average base salary for Colorado teachers with a bachelor’s degree and 10 years of experience is $36,700, according the report from the Center for Amer ican Progress , a research organization.

The national average salary is $44,900. Salaries range from a low of $35,200 in Missouri and Montana and a high of $67,700 in Rhode Island. The figures don’t include pension contributions and haven’t been adjusted for cost of living.

If they want more, get into a profession paying more or accept the profession THEY CHOSE.

We need educated and talented teachers to teach the next generation of children to be participative and knowledgeable American citizens. There are too many undereducated people in the US and their ignorance is dragging the country down.

Here's what NYC teachers earn for that half year they work (and remember, they leave at 3, and can retire at 55):

I have known teachers that want to earn more money-- many take summer jobs. (Remember, they get 2 months off with full pay & medical benefits). And many experienced teachers I've known don't have to take work home and leave at 3 PM. So many take part time jobs after they leave school....

Never launched an attack, just gave an opinion. A large  percentage of teachers are more concerned about pay and bennies, than they are in educating the kids. Remember that fiasco in Wisconsin several years ago?

Not in CA. They libtards have managed to make that sound like chump change.

In CA and many other states it is, especially for someone with a BA which is on average over $60,000 to start. More than half of teachers have Masters degrees which is close to $70,000 average starting pay. 

Starting wages in the Federal government have a locality increase of 35.75% for the SF area and 22.61 for Sacramento [about the same as Miami, FL]. Both would bring a $35,00 base pay way over $40,000, which is just above starting pay for teachers in CA. Locality increases are a good way to gauge what the Federal government acknowledges it costs to live in that locality. 

There are too many undereducated people in the US and their ignorance is dragging the country down

igknorantz ruling would be the product

percentage of teachers are more concerned about pay and bennies, than they are in educating the kids. Remember that fiasco in Wisconsin several years ago?

That wasn't about teachers seeking a pay raise What Scott Walker did in Wisconsin attacked the power of public unions to organize and collectively bargain.

Why is it that conservatives talk about job creation but they don't want to create middle-class jobs that a person can buy a house or raise a family on? Conservatives hate unions that create good jobs and they hate higher education. We should make all conservatives work for Chinese wages and no job proections  since they love unregulated capatalism, until it happens to them.

Teachers have cushy and well paid jobs for what they do.

Bullshit.  You'd never work as a teacher for what they make and what they have to put up with. 

Think you need to relook at the salaries in Colorado.  They've dropped 15%.

• The average salary for a public school teacher was $59,850 during the 2016-2017 academic year.
• Teachers have gone on strike in West Virginia, Oklahoma, and Kentucky to encourage salary increases.
• The average teacher salary has dropped the most in Colorado, where educators earn 15% less than they did about 20 years ago when adjusted for inflation.

businessinsider

My wife has been a teacher in NM for 10 years and just barely makes $42K a year, working 60 hours a week (40 in school, 20 at home doing papers/grading/assignments/etc..) with no administrative help, supplies, back-up from District, etc..  She also has two BS degrees and two MS degrees, so, no, a teacher's job ain't cushy.

never work as a teacher for what they make and what they have to put up with. 

They don't have to either.   They are free to pursue other jobs just like anyone else.

John,

Did you know that in NYS, teachers are not allowed to strike, due to the Taylor laws? The law says that public servants who provide essential services are prohibited from striking. 

It authorizes a governor-appointed State Public Employment Relations Board to resolve contract disputes for public employees while curtailing their right to strike.

The law provides for mediation and binding   arbitration   to give voice to unions, but work stoppages are made punishable with fines and jail time. The   United Federation of Teachers   and the Uniformed Sanitationmen’s Association challenged the Taylor Law at its 1967 inception. Following a 2005 strike, Transit Workers’ president   Roger Toussaint   was incarcerated for three days as per a Taylor Law ruling.

Remember, we are a mostly democrat state. I was in the teachers union, and this process does work. 

Btw.. this also goes to show, the NY and CA are nothing alike. These broad generalizations are really detrimental to any discussion.  

Disrespect for teachers is certainly at play in Republican-controlled states that pay salaries that leave teachers working  second, third, and even sixth jobs ,

Wow!

Teachers are getting paid so little they are working up to six extra jobs?

Impressive!

Are you sure that is what you wanted to say?

Skirting CoC {SP}

Already reported, do not engage ......

He said he is pleased that teachers have to work six jobs to get by. I just gave him the opportunity to perhaps create a different impression. 

He said he is pleased that teachers have to work six jobs to get by

Stop trying to put words in my mouth.   I didn't say that.

The problem is, as seems to be the norm with you John, you chose to insult rather than discuss.   Same for the people who vote insults like yours up.

I simply find it amusing that anyone would claim to have SEVEN jobs.   One teaching and SIX others at the same time.   I'm not saying that the possibility for that doesn't exist but I promise you that is not the norm for teachers. 

And before you jump up your sophomoric insult soapbox again understand that at last count i've got half a dozen teachers in my extended family, probably a couple dozen or so more that i know via association.   None of them have seven jobs.

I know many that get a job during their summer break to make extra money but that generally isn't because they need to.   It's because they want to and they CAN.

The rest of us with 12 month a year jobs don't have that luxury.   We never have.

Your first comment speaks for itself. But I understand you trying to clean it up , so that's ok. 

Your first comment speaks for itself.

Yes it does, it speaks to the total absurdity of the claim in your seed.

One would think you would get tired of trying to push such nonsense but c'est la vie .....

Of course you do know that teachers are not paid for summer, winter and spring breaks they can get a paycheck during the summer because the school systems often "hold back" money earned during the nine months they are paid for and then dole it to them, sometimes it is optional and others mandatory. Year round schools would be a boost to their income working the twelve months. I would expect there are few teachers working more than two jobs as they simply work too many hours during the week. Can you take forced unpaid vacations of about four months a year? Why don't you? Probably the same reason you are not a part of the profession, it is not the cushy deal you think it is either out of ignorance or just to malign and impugn something you would be unable to function in. What other professions do you attack?

Of course you do know that teachers are not paid for summer, winter and spring breaks they can get a paycheck during the summer because the school systems often "hold back" money earned during the nine months they are paid for and then dole it to them, sometimes it is optional and others mandatory.

Irrelevant.   The fact remains most work about three months out of 12.   A hold over from when we were more of an agrarian society and kids needed to work in the field and farms in the summers.   Most jobs don't get a paid summer vacation and/or the summer off to find other full-time employment.   That said, i'm all for full-time school.   Generally speaking it's the teachers that are against it.   At least in our districts they are.

Gee, i wonder why that is?

Year round schools would be a boost to their income working the twelve months. I would expect there are few teachers working more than two jobs as they simply work too many hours during the week.

Do you honestly believe if we go to full time school their paychecks will increase proportionally?   Not a chance.   Few districts (tax payers) will vote for that.   What would happen though is they would lose the ability to take on full time work in the summer.   Effectively losing that non taxpayer funded income.

Can you take forced unpaid vacations of about four months a year? Why don't you?

Why would i?   I didn't enter into my job knowing that would be required.   Teachers do.   If they didn't like it, they could have found another job.   No one forced them to be teachers.   So that argument is simply emotional hooey.   The rest of us don't expect special consideration for the issues we face in our chosen professions.   But i'll take them if you are offering.

Probably the same reason you are not a part of the profession, it is not the cushy deal you think it is either out of ignorance or just to malign and impugn something you would be unable to function in.

Again, no one forced anyone to be teachers and i never said it was a "cushy" deal.   Some of you folks who think i'm attacking teachers sure are good at attacking others yourselves and making unfounded judgements.

What other professions do you attack?

I don't make it a practice.   Not for teachers, not for anyone.   Do you usually make it a practice to attack those who are not of like mind with you?

Of course you do know that teachers are not paid for summer, winter and spring breaks

I don't know where you get those "of course" "alternative facts"! I used to be a public school teacher-- we got full salary every month, including those breaks as well as a 2 month summer vacation. (Yes-- we got paid even though we didn't work for 2 whole months in the summer).

And of course amazing medical coverage continues during those days off.  And if you opt to get a fixed amount automatically deducted from your paycheck each month-- it can be automatically be deposited in a Tax Deferred Annitiy which the state guarantees will pay a certain fixed amouint of interest-- and with close to zero risk of losing any money. (I believe in NY State the state guarantees interest of over 5%-- I believe its currently 5.25%...compounded over timethat adds up!.

But as I previously mentioned-- I know that there are places in the U.S. that don't pay teachers a living wage-- it varies tremendously from state to state...(and even within states)

I used to be a public school teacher-- we got full salary every month, including those breaks as well as a 2 month summer vacation. (Yes-- we got paid even though we didn't work for 2 whole months in the summer).

And in some states, teachers have the option to be paid their salary over the 10 months they work, or spread out their salary over 12 months.

WV teachers were striking more over those fantastic health benefits - some families had premiums over $1K, with high deductibles and a proposed 40% copay.

WV teachers were striking more over those fantastic health benefits - some families had premiums over $1K, with high deductibles and a proposed 40% copay.

I'm not disagreeing. 

I guess I was a bit unclear in my comments. One of the main points I was trying to make is that there's are tremendous differences in teachers' working conditions (and in pay and other benefits) in different areas. In some states their total benefits are much higher thsn for similarly skilled jobs in the private sector-- but in others they don't even get subsistance wages. (And yes, I totally support the striking teachers in those states).

In NY State, the financial benefits teachers get (& that some other public unionized jobs get--), particularly the pensions-- would normally bankrupt the city financially.

The reason it hasn't is that New York City has some unique sources of big income. IIRC, its mainly the Stock markets-- the tax revenues the city gets from those are enormous. (And the market generates many  other financial benefits as well in addition to tax revenue). And the city also has some other fairly unique sources of income as well. Few other areas, if any, have those sorts of financial benefits. 

New York city is unique in many ways (some good, some bad). Understanding many aspects of the city is often not that helpful in understand the situation in other places...

There was a sound byte on the local news about a teacher who is working three jobs, but six?  Unless each of the other five are one hour jobs, it is highly unlikely.

In our school district teacher compensation is well above the average.   If they are working three extra jobs that's likely by choice and not out of necessity.

Average for teachers is very different than average for the populace. Most construction workers make more than teachers and their knowledge is OJT.

BS!   Most construction workers are not compensated better than teachers.   Not in our area, not even close.

And all the skilled trades go to school just like anyone else.   Do you have something against the skilled trades?

Nothing against them at all, most trades are OJT and pay as good as or better than, some benefit from an eight month vocational school still far different than a B.A. 

Actually most people in the trades pay exactly zero for their education.    They get paid to go to school.

i could have used that when I went to college

There was a sound byte on the local news about a teacher who is working three jobs, but six?

Heck, why don't we post a comment about a teacher who works 8 jobs-- or 12!

Remember, this is NT-- people here frequently post "alternative facts"-- whatever thought pops into their head is fine-- there's no need to post things that happen to be true -- that's entirely optional!

BS!   Most construction workers are not compensated better than teachers.   Not in our area,

Perhaps not in your area.

After many years online, one thing I keep noticing-- the frequency with which people over-generalize. They often feel if a given situation is a certain way on their lives, it must be the same for everyone else! For some reason, many people are incapable of understanding the concept that some people are different. And that some other geographical areas populations mainly have ideas and values that are extremely different from theirs!

Nice to see she is back on the scene... Looks like she got her broom out of the shop. 

Most construction workers make more than teachers and their knowledge is OJT.

That's simply not the case.

The average wage for a union ironworker is the mid-50s.

A union pipefitter average 50 and go into the low $110s for 20 years experience.

Union masons work for about $40K per year.

Union sand hogs are easily in the $90K per year.

Union equipment operators can make $50K to start to over $100K for experience on certain equipment.

Most construction workers in the US are not union.    In fact its less than 15% of the overall construction workforce.   On the other hand nearly half of all teachers in the US are in unions.

Again, most construction workers DO NOT make more than teachers in general.

Teachers are getting paid so little they are working up to six extra jobs . 

And those are the lucky ones!

Deleted, Skirting CoC {SP}

Though I live in the Northeast, it is my understanding that comparatively speaking overall wages in many of the so called Red States lag behind the rest of the Country. But the cost of living in most of those states is considerably lower than the National norms so I suppose it is somewhat relative.

Wages are between the Teachers Unions and their respective Boards of Education, what concerns me more is the lack of funding going to educational essentials, textbooks, IT etc. These are the things that adversely affect the students and should be funded without question, the Teachers are adults, they can advocate for themselves.

Tough to compare salaries across state lines, even bordering states. Oklahoma teacher salaries appear to be roughly 89% of the Oklahoma average salary or income. That percentage appears consistent across the nation. There are a few states that pay teachers more than the average, but only a handful. Most are at or below 85% of the state's average.

Cost of living is another issue, for obvious reasons. 

One thing that stands out to me, at least for Oklahoma, is the number of superintendents and the annual combined salaries thereof. Over 51 million for something like 532 supers. I think there is some fat that can be trimmed there. More than a handful are making 200K. 

Both of my parents were teachers. We didn't have fancy things, but we weren't starving either. I knew how we lived, and actually certified, with an eye at following my dad's footsteps as a coach. 

More than a handful are making 200K

I'd say that's a good place to start, put those funds back into the kids.

Arkansas has a "superintendent" problem. If we could cut the bloat in Administration, we could probably buy updated text books for our students

I'd say that's a good place to start, put those funds back into the kids.

Those aren't the ones they need to axe.  The Tulsa superintendent, for example, makes about $6/student per year. 

It's the really tiny towns with their own separate school districts that eat up all the money.  Some of these tiny Podunk superintendents are making nearly $1000/kid per year.  Even if they only make $50k/yr....if there are only 55 kids in the school district, it's outrageously expensive. 

But it's Oklahoma, so nobody will consider consolidation.

Can't speak for other states, but the issue in Kentucky is pension. A pension that has been far too generous and has nearly bankrupted the system. Seriously, having teachers retire at 30 years, with accumulated sick days driving it down to a possible 27 years, then allowing pension payments to not be state taxed... equals an income raise by retiring early, sometimes at age 49 and most by 55.

Keeping the current system in effect, equates to a massive increase in taxes. Yet the teachers have attempted to engineer their efforts as somehow related to many other issues other than the pension. 

Granted several school districts did close today, but a vast number of school districts, including the larger ones, were already on spring break. 

My question for today is... who is paying for all those school buses being used to haul teachers to a protest? Answer the same people that are on the hook, for maintaining the current overly generous pension system... the taxpayers. 

A pension that has been far too generous

Obviously you never taught a class of  30 13 year olds.  Always "love" the patronizing and snide attitudes of people who'd never subject themselves to the kind of pressures teachers are under today. 

I would imagine if the classroom were full of 13 y/o's, (deleted), it might be difficult, but the overly generous teacher's pension is still the issue, not whether they can control a classroom.

Skirting CoC {SP}

Many don't like to talk "total compensation" but rather only use the disingenuous talking point of "wage or salary" instead.   That is a standard union tactic.

It is not unusual for benefits to total 25-35% of wage.   Thus making a 50k wage closer to 65k.   It's been about ten years but the last time i FOIA'd our school district the average teacher wage was 55k with bennies at about 15k average.

70k total on average not 55k.   That is what it cost taxpayers.

A pension that has been far too generous and has nearly bankrupted the system.

There are several towns that have been bankrupted by overly generous pensions-- for government workers-- cops and firemen in addition to teachers.

What some people don't realize that a pension means that the recipient is paid even though they aren't working! And since in many places teachers retire 10n years earlier than other workers-- at age 55-- they get paid that money for a long time. Over time many cities and states just can't afford that...

(Again, it should be pointed out thatthis varies tremendously from state to state-- and from even form municipality to municipality).

The unfunded liability problem in local, state and federal pension plans is going to make all previous financial crisis's look like small farts in the wind.

It will not be pretty when those bills come due ......

So are people supposed to work for an entity (even gov't) for 30 years and not get any kind of compensation?

Well all righty then! Let's make all gov't workers work for nothing!

Go tell every  body else how to comment but don't tell me what to write, understand?

If they earned it they should get it, yes? You do realize that it's repubs that promote big pensions....right? Oh wait, only for the top 1%... Never mind.. 

My hat is off to teachers .. not a easy job, so few are given the credit they deserve, for their hard work and diligence / commitment that changes young peoples lives ... along side quite a few that should not be allowed to teach (they remain in the profession, for the pension, as they add nothing to a young persons life - students dread them) yet like law enforcement are protected by a union - hard to weed the 'bad apples' out.

The average salary for a teacher in Montana 44+k a year .. starting wage 24+k a year... not great wages, but given the cost of living here .. not bad either (buying a house may become a bit tricky on a single income as a teacher - which sucks)

Let the teachers strike, if their head is not in the game ... young people are not learning anyhow,  not even from the good ones.

6 jobs - pfft ... 'fake new' .. perhaps?

Taking classroom time away from students for striking is wrong IMO.  Strike during vacation or holidays.

That pretty much defeats the purpose of a strike.

That pretty much defeats the purpose of a strike.

Some people just don't get it.   I'm rubbing my eyes at the thought of her reply. 

What I want to say would get me sent to Perrie's time-out chair until almost rapture.  Maybe I should just let it fly just once before the 6th when the new rules take effect. 

whistling.......

Strike during vacation or holidays.

But that would not be a strike,'(A strike is when employees don't go into work....by definition, employees don't work on vacations and holidays!)

She doesn't know any better, bless her heart.....

No value [ph]

Comment removed for CoC violation [ph]

No value [ph]

Again, their stupidity is white hot. 

No value [ph]

When does it vaporize?

Again, their stupidity is white hot.

I cannot describe it in any other form than Dunning Kruger syndrome. They are intellectually unable to identify and then rectify their own intellectual failings.  Ignorance is a platform of conservatism.

Taking classroom time away from students for striking is wrong IMO.  Strike during vacation or holidays.

You do not understand labor or strikes. If they were to strike when school was out of session there would be no incentive for management to bargain.

Didn't you learn this fact in US history or civics?

I come from a heavily Unionized family (though I was never in one) and from a heavily Unionized state (Michigan) and I just assumed that Labor history was taught as part of American history in school? It was sure taught in the Jr High that I went to. If not it sure should be!

I come from a heavily Unionized family (though I was never in one) and from a heavily Unionized state (Michigan) and I just assumed that Labor history was taught as part of American history in school? It was sure taught in the Jr High that I went to. If not it sure should be!

The effects of unions were taught in my HS history class, plus civics and economics. Ir was also mentioned in my college history class. When I was employed by GM engineering it was so bad in the salaried ranks that there was some talk of the engineering staff joining a union.

Labor history was such a big part of the history of America in the late 19th and well into the 20th century. It was more then just about more pay for jobs. It really was a Socialist political movement. It brought about the 5 day work week and the 8 hour work day and paid vacations. It eliminated child labor and started OSHA to make the work place a much safer place and reduced maiming and deaths. To make all of this possible there were massive and bloody strikes where many men died, along with some women and in the case of a copper mine strike in 1913 upper Michigan, 73 children. Still if it was not for organized labor we would not recognize today's work place with the treatment of the workers and the safety regulations in place, along with health care and maternity leave. All American workers owe a big debt and in some cases their lives to those who came before.

Labor Union history was taught in the industrialized north, because I was taught it in Western PA, home of US Steel and Bethlehem Mines.

The South was probably not taught about labor unions because they are all mostly right to work states, which is a misnomer if you ask me. You really don't have the right to work in the South if your boss can fire you at will.

I know what a strike is.

Why not call it a protest and not keep the kids out of class?

apparently you don't know what a strike is or you wouldn't have made such a dumb comment

As Marx stated unions are the key to destroying capitalism

unionism is Anti-American, anti-liberty, and anti right to free association 

In the 1970s I spent two plus years in the UAW (including one year as shop steward), and 5 years in the Teamsters. I learned first hand that they are nothing more than a Marxist mafia.

I make it a point to work against them at any opportunity

No value [ph]

Please don't call my father and his family Marxists. My grandfather got a lot of trouble for his efforts in trying to unionize the mines when he was a young man. He was no Marxist. 

If you think that fighting for safe working conditions and fair wages is a Marxist concept, maybe you should read another book or two

Totally agree...they have outlived their usefulness

apparently you don't know what a strike is or you wouldn't have made such a dumb comment

Oh, I wouldn't be so sure of that.  Not at all. 

they have outlived their usefulness

You go right on thinking that.

Until the day you don;t have any money and no medical bennies because the unions you hate so much finally all went tango uniform and there's nobody looking out for you now.

The South was probably not taught about labor unions

It was taught in WV.  The mine wars were a huge part of my WV History classes.

Do you still take weekends off? Vacation? Have health benefits? Did you proclaim your right to not be forced into hazardous chemicals and working conditions, if you answered yes to any of these then accept you are a profound hypocrite that's accepts the good while ignoring the source.

I bet they were. There was a huge war that I can't recall the name of.

They always ignore that stuff....

I bet nobody's living in company housing anymore, either. Or getting paid with script that can only be used at the company store. Or being stuck at the same mine forever, your children, too, because you weren't allowed to move. Talk about serfdom....

Blair Mountain, Paint and Cabin Creeks were the big ones.

There's a pretty decent movie about it called "Matewan" - some liberties were taken, but overall it captures what went on.

Matewan is the one I was thinking of

I have been self employed for the past 27 years.

i have no so called benefits except those I pay for. Some weeks I work 80 hours or more and sometimes I work 10 hours a week.  I control my own life

Why not call it a protest and not keep the kids out

You still do not understand why a strike is called. Shutting down the workplace forces the employer to bargain in good faith so as to get the business back in operation so as to make money and not lose customers. Without this power, a union has no ability to force an employer to negotiate a contract in good faith. 

This is why unions exist to give the empoloyees more power as a group than as individual people.

unionism is Anti-American, anti-liberty, and anti right to free association

Where do you get this hyperbolic nonsense? The basis of union organization is the right to associate in the 1st Amendment. Unions are what made the middle class and the death of unions align with the falling middle class. What supposed liberty taken from you by joining a union?

You are free to work for peanuts somewhere else if you don't want to join the union. I'll even give you the right to opt out of the union at your workplace but you don't get the union salary, benefits, and representation.  You can work for $13.00 an hour and no overtime, vacation or pension while your coworkers make 3 times, get time and a half or double time, that have full health coverage, a month paid vacation and a pension.

unionism is Anti-American, anti-liberty, and anti right to free association

Would you care to discuss the situation with unions in the former U.S.S.R.? Or for that matter, any Communist country?

Or in any right wing dictatorship?

(Of course you wouldn't-- because in totalitarian dictatorships they aren't allowed to exist-- because unions are only allowed in democracies..

DUH!

Ten thumbs up.

I have been self employed for the past 27 years.

Doing what? I mean you have claimed to be an expert in just about every fucking profession known... So which one are you defaulting to this time? 

As Marx stated

Marx also stated religion was opium for the masses

For the last 15 years only insurance, taxes and serving in ministry

It's my understanding that these teachers striking in Oklahoma are not striking for more pay or better pensions, since they just got a pay raise. They are striking for better classroom conditions such as more and more current textbooks to teach from, more desks so that there are actually enough to go around in a particular class, so they don't have students standing during class because they don't have a desk to sit at. Smaller classes so they have a chance for more effective personal teaching. More district paid for classroom supplies like paper, pencils, etc. Computers that work. Internet access for their students at school. They are not asking for more money for themselves. They are asking for more money for more supplies and equipment that make it possible for them to do a better job teaching these kids. More money for improved schools that have been neglected and falling apart due to budget cuts over the last many years because of tax cuts. I would think that the parents in the Oklahoma School Systems would want the best supplies and desks and such for their own kids.

I wonder why kids in red states would even need an education, much less a quality education.

The only ones in that part of the country they care about moving on in school are the ones who can play football...and they major in physical education at OU or OSU.

I wonder why kids in red states would even need an education, much less a quality education.

Well, if they sit around with the family when they watch TV, they are getting an education (of sorts)-- if the parents are watching Trump TV (AKA "Fox News") they learn from that. They learn lots of facts-- albeit it "alternative facts"!

They are striking for better classroom conditions such as more and more current textbooks to teach from, more desks so that there are actually enough to go around in a particular class, so they don't have students standing during class because they don't have a desk to sit at. Smaller classes so they have a chance for more effective personal teaching

Slight of hand .... misdirection ..... hope they didn't see that eh?

Nonsense, they are striking primarily because the 6k raise they were offered wasn't enough.   They want what they originally asked for.   Nearly 70% more or 10K     So that's what they call negotiations?   Laughable

Maybe they deserve the 10k and maybe they don't but stop putting disingenuous info out there.   Perhaps conditions/textbooks/etc are part of the issue but not the main part from what i've read.   It's the 10k they are really striking for.

Sorry, I'm late for the bashing, I mean party, but I hope you don't mind me adding a little to the conversation.

Daily Kos

This is your link to this article, right?

You love to criticize the Red states, but have you noticed the Blue state of Illinois is #49 of the 50 states in financial condition  Didn't they tell a lot of the government employees recently they weren't going to be able to pay them their retirements?

And it doesn't look like it is getting any better either.....

I don't know if you can trust this information, because it comes from the Fake News Site of CNN, but you like them, so here it is.

Illinois is starving state colleges and universities

State funding for public colleges and universities in Illinois has slowed to a dribble.

The schools are laying off staff and mandating furlough days. Library hours have been reduced. Campus buildings are closed over spring breaks and summer weekends. Maintenance work has been put off. Low-income students are worried their state funded scholarships will be pulled out from under them.

Funding for state colleges fell 61% for the 2015-2016 school year, according to data from the Illinois Board of Higher Education. continue....

State: About 60 percent of school districts deficit spend; CPS stays on 'watch' list

Finances remain shaky to tumultuous across Illinois school districts, new state data show, with most districts spending more than they're taking in and dipping into reserves or borrowing to stay afloat.

The Illinois State Board of Education on Wednesday released the 2016 School District Financial Profile Scores that gauge the financial health of districts, and ISBE board members and staff were troubled by some aspects of the data.

The profile shows that Chicago Public Schools and Will County's Lincoln-Way Community High School District 210, among others, fell into the worst category, called Financial Watch, for the second year in a row, and one Lake County district has been stuck on the watch list since 2007.

Overall, 32 districts fell into that lowest category, fewer than the 38 last year. And more districts made the top category, called Financial Recognition — 568 compared to 553 last year — according to an analysis posted online by the Illinois State Board of Education. There are four categories of financial health.

continue....

Sorry to crash your party, but we all would like to pay teachers more.  I think they should be paid more than what they receive now.  Oh I have one more...

Chicago public schools face financial crisis

A strike has been averted: Public schools in Chicago are open today. The city and the teacher's union agreed to a four-year contract proposal that will guide pensions, class sizes and layoffs. The union said the deal is good for kids, teachers and the community, while Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel said it will help shore up school finances.

Here's how bad things have become for Chicago Public Schools: Moody’s Investors Service recently downgraded the district’s debt to B3, “which is six notches below investment grade,” said Moody’s Vice President Rachel Cortez.

Heavy borrowing, growing pension obligations and a fiscal crisis in the state have put the district’s finances in an increasingly precarious position, she said. In less than 20 years, the schools’ outstanding debt has more than tripled to nearly $7 billion.

“In order to get out of this situation, they’re going to need to either reduce expenditures or increase revenues,” Cortez said. continue...

You started out with a very false premise. CNN is not in any way, shape or form a fake news site. The very fact that you think it might be means you have drank the wrong koolaid. I would suggest something that provides a good clean washing of your digestive track and cleans that shit out of your system. If you still find that you think that CNN is a fake news site then I recommend bleaching your brain and a total disconnect from FOX News, which is a false news site. Consult a Psychiatrist if these suggestions do not work as you need real help. There are medications available to treat this sickness and that is what it is, a mental illness.

There are medications available to treat this sickness and that is what it is, a mental illness.

Are there medications to help one identify sarcasm when one reads it?

It is the fakest of ALL news sites. They never give the complete or true story and are completely in the hands of the DNC and the whole Democrat establishment. They are the propaganda wing of the leftists. MSNBC is pretty much the same, only worse.

Personal attacks are henceforth verboten!!!

It is the fakest of ALL news sites.

The way to tell if a site is fake or not is to see if anyone gets fired after printing a false or misleading story. CNN fired three journalists who had written an article based on the dossier because it hadn't been completely verified yet, not that it was proven false, just was still unverified. When Fox pundits push false or misleading stories they get promoted instead of fired. That tells me all I need to know about who's the real fake news.

money.cnn

politifact

Of course they now have a like minded collaborator with the whole Sinclair conglomerate preaching trumpism alternative reality. They call it Real News.

Nothing but a rightist web site... Garbage. 

As the Trump Administration emulates more-and-more, the tactics, agenda and (figurative) hit list-compilation of Putin's Russia and other tyrants in history, we will see the manifestations in the of a Government-Oligarch marriage made in hell!

Like Putin's Russia, THE TRUMP/RIGHT WING OBJECTIVE, WILL DIVERT RESOURCES OF THE CITIZEN TO CORRUPT POLITICIANS AND ORGANIZED WEALTH.

Through DE-REGULATION OF CORPORATE AND FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS, ATTACKS ON THE FREE PRESS, PRIVATIZATION OF HERETOFORE TAX-FUNDED SERVICES AND ENTITIES PAID FOR AND DIRECTED TO THE COMMON GOOD, the thieves in government, from the POTUS on down, will, should this continue, CHUNK-BY-CHUNK,  LITERALLY OWN AMERICA!

Prior to "throwing the bums out of office" via the electoral process … WHICH TRUMP AND FRIENDS HAVE ALREADY BEGUN TO STEAL FROM AMERICANS, the following actions of the working class will escalate:

• ECONOMIC BOYCOTTS

• STRIKES, GENERAL STRIKES and "SIT DOWNS"

• PEACEFUL DEMONSTRATIONS/PROTESTS (until such time, if any, we see "Kent State" type government retaliation)

Trumpian corruption and assault on democracy and reason, persist because of a Republican-controlled Congress, some members of which, IMO, received Russian campaign financing through a conduit such as the National Rifle Association (and possibly others) … which consequently will do nothing to stop a cancer-in-the-White House, LEST, were they bring down Trump, Trump would out and take the down with him!

As Trump continues to keep his base's hatred of minorities, immigrants, women's rights, et al in combustion mode, the Great-White-Hope, his Cabinet members and family, will screw them along with those of us who NOT ONLY SEE WHAT'S HAPPENING, BUT WHO RESIST IT!

Attacking teachers and other working class Americans, their unions and other advocates, is nothing new in the world of tyrants … 

MARTIN NIEMÖLLER: "FIRST THEY CAME FOR THE SOCIALISTS..."

Quotation from Martin Niemöller on display in the Permanent Exhibition of the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum. Niemöller was a Lutheran minister and early Nazi supporter who was later imprisoned for opposing Hitler's regime.

— US Holocaust Memorial Museum

Deleted - Skirting {SP}

Trump has nothing to do with the state of affairs in red states insofar as education in 2018.  My Great State of Alabama has been poor since Alabama became Alabama.  We have good schools, good teachers, yet, we are at the bottom of the totem pole.

Just can't make a student learn if they don't want to. 

Yet your team proclaims it is the fault of the teachers and the vile reprehensible all powerful machine known as the teachers union that controls and dictates to the legions of taxpayer sucking holders of the cushy overpaid positions known as teaching. In my county they forced the school board to give the underworked teacher rabble a whopping raise of 1% and did not even attempt to increase the work loads. Trump did place a grossly unqualified extremely large campaign donor to run the entire educational system while publicly proclaiming the desire to emulate her success in her home state which is an unmitigated disaster. Nope no trump connections to be found. 

Well, the only ones heard from on how bad teachers are. usually are, those with a political agenda or parents of an unruly kid.

The Teachers Union here is very powerful. 

Trump has nothing to do with the state of affairs in red states insofar as education in 2018

Trump's election as POTUS is a current manifestation of the denigration of reason, common sense and values as per the Tea Party and white nationalistic agenda and the corresponding assaults on the institutions that stand between abject ignorance and partisan stupidity!

We have good schools, good teachers, yet, we are at the bottom of the totem pole.

What do you think the department of education does?

Alabama is almost at the bottom of the list because of poor funding. Don't you want your grandchildren to get a good education? 

Alabama's cuts in K-12 education are one of the slowest in the nation to catch up after the recession, according to an analysis from the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities released last week .   

Alabama's state spending on K-12 education is still 21.6 percent lower than it was in 2008, the year before the recession took hold, according to the analysis.

Alabama is in the number three spot, behind Arizona (down 36. 6 percent) and Florida (down 22 percent), and is one of 29 states where state spending on K-12 education in 2015 had not reached 2008 levels, according to the analysis.

Lower taxes and increase spending.....then the red states wonder why they are always broke. Idiots.

Come on......we aren't idiots.

Come on......we aren't idiots.

You continue to support politicians whose policies hurt you. That is not a sign of intelligence. 

Come on......we aren't idiots.

I didn't call you an idiot.

There is a vast difference in what teachers are paid state by state. 

The following report covers an area that I'm not sure if many commentators are aware of. A very large shortage in teachers that is growing. 

Sadly, IMO, we are short changing our young people. Many districts are using non certified teachers, others are using parents as teachers...

I can see that treacher's in OK moving to Texas where the starting salary is around $13K higher per year...

All and all, in the end, it's the kids that are going to suffer if we can't staff our classrooms with moviated teachers. They will be competing in a world that is global. making ''getting by'' with a poor education even more difficult.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2017/08/28/teacher-shortages-affecting-every-state-as-2017-18-school-year-begins/?utm_term=.0632517534db

Aw...half the fun here is making fun of and mocking the loyal opposition! Say it isn't so.

It is for some people..but not for others.

(And I think its pretty obvious who the trolls are...)

PROUD MEMBER

Unless these States increase their Education funding it will make no difference how much they raise teachers salaries.  

Most on here who can be honest understand the connection between red states voting republican and under funded education.  It's a deliberate tactic and a winning formula as is very evident by the comments of those on the right.  

It's exhausting trying to dummy down arguments on this site.  I can only take it in very small increments anymore.