Despite claims that TRUMP'S SEPARATING CHILDREN FROM PARENTS … AND, LOCKING UP THOSE CHILDREN … WAS "THE LAW" …
IT IS NOT!
Although Trump and his white nationalist sycophants continuously alluded to "the law" that made his cruel "zero tolerance" policy "legal,"
IT DID NOT!
This is what that law stipulates …
The Flores settlement requires the federal government to do two things: to place children with a close relative or family friend “without unnecessary delay,” rather than keeping them in custody; and to keep immigrant children who are in custody in the “least restrictive conditions” possible.
Under Flores, CHILDREN MUST BE KEPT IN LICENSED FACILITIES … that is not happening. You TRUMPIANS need to stop being miseducated by Fox, Breitbart and the usual hate sources!
AS LEAKED PHOTOS, VIDEOS and other realities hit the fan, Republicans, like the RATS THEY HAVE BEEN, will leave the Trump ship, foist their grandstanding-bullshit capitulation-"Come-to-Jesus"-moments and claim to suddenly "realize the horrible realities uncovered by the Mueller Investigation!"
INCARCERATING INFANTS IS A LOSING PROPOSITION … and those who support it in the hope of realizing their white nationalist dreams … will be repudiated for what they are.
Some of these incarcerated CHILDREN …
… WILL NEVER BE REUNITED WITH THEIR PARENTS!
Yesterday, Michael Cohen, had his "Come to Jesus" (equivalent) moment …
Trump’s former longtime confidant, who is under criminal investigation , also blasted the president’s “zero tolerance” policy under which children have been separated from their parents after illegal border crossings.
“As the son of a Polish holocaust survivor, the images and sounds of this family separation policy is heart wrenching,” Cohen wrote, marking the first time he has distanced himself
PAY ATTENTION FOX DUPES
Article is LOCKED by author/seeder
Will, what is your suggestion to stop the practice and end the problem.
It's a search for an alternative course that critics aren't offering on their own. Rather than feign outrage, why don't you tell us what should be done with the children?
Wrong again.
Hand them over to the first person with a van willing to take them?Essentially what Obama did. Got to keep the numbers low.
You wrongly equate, what, I agree, was a show of abject sloppiness on the part of the Obama Administration … with an INTENTIONAL violation of protocol and lies by the Trump Administration … in violation of the 8th and 14th Amendments of the Constitution …
… and that for the purpose of pandering to white nationalist xenophobes!
of course.....nothing is ever Obama's fault, he is excused for anything....thanks for proving that.
of course.....nothing is ever Obama's fault, he is excused for anything....thanks for proving that.
The only thing proven here, is that when the facts and the law are contrary to your argument, you play the "liberals, of course, believe that nothing is ever Obama's fault" card.
Pay attention; I acknowledged the fault of Obama and made the clear distinction between his absence of malice and Trump's intended malice and dishonesty.
"liberals, of course, believe that nothing is ever Obama's fault" card.
You said it.
I acknowledged the fault of Obama and made the clear distinction between his absence of malice
no you didn't, you provided an excuse for him...sloppiness
was a show of abject sloppiness on the part of the Obama Administration
Quotas had to be met, and numbers had to be low. Push those kids out to make room for more, because increasing those numbers are going to look really really bad for the Obama Admin.
Quotas had to be met, and numbers had to be low. Push those kids out to make room for more, because increasing those numbers are going to look really really bad for the Obama Admin.
Make it up as you go and misrepresent what I wrote.
misrepresent what I wrote.
How did I misrepresent what you said...did I change something?
Make it up as you go
What did I make up? I can't say what I think....I know you want to excuse Obama from malice because of "sloppieness" (handing children over to predators is not sloppy it was deliberate and unacceptable) but people have other opinions also.
I unequivocally stated that the Obama Administration was at fault and that it was due to sloppiness not maliciousness … you characterized that as "making an excuse."
Had I said there was no culpability, you'd be correct, but, I made a clear distinction as to intent and lying on the part of Trump.
And in fact … here's what happened and how …
In July 2015, the U.S. Department of Justice indicted a ring of traffickers lead by Aroldo Castillo-Serrano and accused them of smuggling children into the United States. They were also accused of lying to Health and Human Services’ Office of Refugee Resettlement (ORR) by posing as relatives in order to gain custody of children in its care and use them for forced labor in Marion, a city north of Columbus. The federal indictment, filed in U.S. district court in Ohio accuses Castillo-Serrano and his conspirators of forcing the children to live in squalid trailers and work six or seven 12-hour days a week, using threats and physical violence as coercion.
According to the Justice Department, Castillo-Serrano pleaded guilty in August 2015 to counts related to trafficking. He was sentenced to more than 15 years in prison and ordered to pay restitution to the victims.
The case spurred a Senate subcommittee investigation led by Rob Portman (R-Ohio) which concluded the processes used by ORR to screen sponsors “are inadequate to protect the children in the agency’s care.” At the time, HHS lacked a system to screen potential sponsors for signs of trafficking, like accumulating multiple unrelated children. It did not physically assess homes children were being placed in and did not do adequate background checks on adults residing in those homes. The report found that in 2014, “HHS permitted a sponsor to block a child-welfare case worker from visiting with one of the victims, even after the case worker discovered the child was not living at the address on file with HHS.”
As a result of the investigation, HHS and the Department of Homeland Security entered into an agreement to hammer out a joint plan that would address the issues raised in the report. As of 26 April 2018, that still had not happened according to Portman, who released a statement blasting the agencies for their failure to take action. He wrote:
The agreement said the agencies would enter into a detailed “Joint Concept of Operations” that would spell out what the agencies would do to fix the problems. They gave themselves a deadline of February 2017. That was over a year ago.
It’s now April 2018. We still don’t have that Joint Concept of Operations — the JCO — and despite repeated questions from Sen. Carper and me, as well as our staffs, over the past year, we don’t have any answers about why that is.
_________________________________________________
There is a significant difference between being defrauded by criminals and CHANGING AN EXISTING PROTOCOL WHILE BLAMING THE POLICY THAT SUPPLANTS THAT PROTOCOL ON A STRICTLY DECEPTIVE, PARTISAN LIE!
MALICIOUS - intending or intended to do harm:
SLOPPY/DECEIVED - careless and unsystematic, intentionally given a false impression
I unequivocally stated that the Obama Administration was at fault and that it was due to sloppiness
Yes, you made an excuse of sloppiness for Obama. Is it not? That is what I said. I did not misrepresent anything and until you can provide where I changed anything, do not accuse me of it.
You have to remember. According to his minions, whenever Obama screwed up, it was just an small error or a miscalculation or he was sloppy or he misspoke or he was tired and exhausted or any other excuse they can come up with. They do the same or similar things with Hillary and every other liberal they aren't looking to sacrifice . It is only conservatives and those they don't like that are always guilty of malicious and calculated acts with no possibility of any other reason.
I challenge you to quantify that, particularly in terms of the myriad of lies and policy-free promises and bigoted remarks made by Trump … during his campaign … and since.
We ALL make excuses for our candidates … that phenomenon CANNOT VIABLY BE ATTRIBUTED TO ANY ONE PARTY.
any other excuse they can come up with.
Therein lies the rub.
Trump's minions don't CARE if he 'screws up', no excuses necessary. In fact, you cheer it and then point out the fact that he's doing exactly what he was elected to do.
The VIDEO is a Trump, in-house P.R. piece! Let in the members of Congress and the media and child advocate individuals who have been denied access to known facilities, and, reveal the locations of all the others … and let's see the videos resulting from those?
Are you really that f'n gullible?
BREAKING: Border Patrol @ CBP just gave us this video of the detention facility we toured yesterday in McAllen, Texas. We weren't allowed to bring in cameras, or interview anyone. To be clear: this is government handout video.
Those willing to take this video at face value … ESPECIALLY WHEN CAMERAS WERE NOT PERMITTED … are GULLIBLE!
gullible |ˈɡələb(ə)l|
adjective
"easily persuaded to believe something … credulous"
Here is his video interview.
Look at all the innocent babies being detained here for a MAXIMUM of 72 hours.
He is quite the little snowflake isn't he. Typical liberal that has his panties in a bunch with a lot of what ifs.
It's funny but I don't think he denies that the video supplied to him was untrue. His only problem was that he couldn't take his video gear in and exploit the children like the liberal P.O.S. he is.
So you don't want these kids held in the comfortable facilities designed for holding children (video here),
Thanks for disseminating government propaganda...
I note that you didn't post the video of the Concentration camp in Tornillo, TX.
and you don't want them in the same facility as their parents.
You mean the Federal Prisons? Go read the Flores Settlement.
What would you like done with them then?
The same thing that was done in 2016.
Cut them loose into the streets? Hand them over to the first person with a van willing to take them?
Snark noted.
I find it interesting that none of y'all seem to have any desire to address the ELEPHANT in the room. Trump FUCKED UP. With malaise, Trump enacted a policy that he either WANTED to be an EPIC cluster fuck or he had NO CLUE that planning was required PRIOR to implementing such a radical change in enforcement.
Either way, it unequivocally proves that Trump is utterly incompetent. Either he SHOULD have known what the backlash would be and prepared for it, or he had no idea that even the majority of his sycophant fans could NOT stomach tearing babies away from their mothers and putting them in 'tender age' jails, no matter how brown they are.
For the first time, he has utterly misread his fan base and it was a YUGE mistake.
Oh course, Trump made a big deal about riding in with his pen to save the day by signing a EO to stop himself from his worst inclinations. He hated doing it but mommy and sis demanded it.
Luckily, he had a pre-planned ego booster on his schedule. The Goddess only knows what he may have done if he didn't get fluffed last night by his clueless toadies.
For PUTTING OUT A FIRE HE STARTED!
He didn't start anything. He's trying to put the fire out. He is trying to undue damage caused by decades of border mismanagement.
What happens when you stop arresting people for robbing banks? I'll tell you: You encourage more people to rob more banks.
Similarly, at our border, people commit the crime of illegally entering the country. By law, it's something the government could prosecute them for. A big reason government prosecutes crime is to discourage others from doing the same thing. But, for years, we have had a policy that we will not detain such people if they have children with them.
Logically, that encourages people to enter the country illegally and to make sure they do it with children (theirs or somebody else's, it doesn't matter). They're like adorable little get-out-of-jail-free cards. Consequently, the number of people crossing illegally with children is always increasing.
That's an absurd policy if you want to control who comes into the country. If you don't want that control, then, by all means, step up and declare it. Say that you think borders are bad and we should stop trying to have one. But if you believe in a border, then you have to try to control it. And stop acting like every logical attempt to stem the uncontrolled flow of people is another step in the next holocaust.
What happens when you stop arresting people for robbing banks?
Not anything like when you begin arbitrarily arresting babies, and do so by abrogating the protocol which gives individuals LEGAL RIGHTS TO PETITION FOR ASYLUM AND/OR TEMPORARY PROTECTED STATUS …
… that, in order to save their children from rape, murder, human traffickers and assorted mayhem …
Your question has been answered.
You may now rebut my FONT choices.
Deleted, skirting {SP}
Labeling and/or creative name-calling of entire political groups, ideological, religious, cultural, sexual identity / orientation, etc. groups (i.e. Rethuglicans, Libtards, etc), is forbidden.
Way to go demorats.
I do believe that is a CoC violation.
Whether accurate or not, the issue now is the abrogation of a binding consent decree that has lead to the incarceration of children … lyingly blamed by the Republicans who abrogated the decree … on Democrats.
The incarceration locations are not yet all known, the level of care or the absence thereof is being kept secret, it is known that profiteers are being paid to incarcerate some of these children …
AND IT'S ALSO KNOWN THE THE INCOMPETENT TRUMP ADMINISTRATION HAS NO PLAN TO SYSTEMATICALLY UNITE … OR, TO BE ABLE EVER TO UNITE THE CHILDREN WITH THEIR PARENTS!
Did I get that correctly on the record, Councelor?
I stated in RED BOX RULES that all comments would stand in this discussion with the intent of allowing comments to give indications of the knowledge, integrity and agendas of their makers.
That objective has been clearly attained, RW. We see the trollers, the derailers, the goal post movers, the agitators, the myopic, the poorly informed, the ill-informed, the uninformed, the relentless purveyors of ill will …
With "mission accomplished," it's almost time to say "good night."
Take your last shot folks … at 8:00 PM, it's over.
A big reason government prosecutes crime is to discourage others from doing the same thing.
Yet they don't detain them while the await trial, DO THEY?
But, for years, we have had a policy that we will not detain such people if they have children with them.
Though that doesn't mean that they were NOT prosecuted, DOES IT?
Logically, that encourages people to enter the country illegally and to make sure they do it with children (theirs or somebody else's, it doesn't matter).
It sure as hell DOES matter. Trump, his minions, and it seems you, like to throw out red meat without supporting your accusations with facts. There is NO data on adults USING children to cross the border, NONE. There IS however data on Human Trafficking prosecutions and it should be no surprise that there don't seem to be any uptick in those types of prosecutions.
They're like adorable little get-out-of-jail-free cards. Consequently, the number of people crossing illegally with children is always increasing.
Total hyperbolic BS and supposition. It seems that y'all have such limited minds that you can't grasp that the reason that the number of people crossing with children is increasing could possibly be that increasing numbers of FAMILIES in Central America find themselves in peril.
That's an absurd policy if you want to control who comes into the country. If you don't want that control, then, by all means, step up and declare it. Say that you think borders are bad and we should stop trying to have one. But if you believe in a border, then you have to try to control it. And stop acting like every logical attempt to stem the uncontrolled flow of people is another step in the next holocaust.
Thank you for another example of Trump supporters inability to see anything but black and white.
As for stepping and declaring shit, what's with the 'it's the law, we have no choice, the Democrats are making us do it, it can't be fixed by signing an EO' bullshit? Where is your demand that Trump, his minions and his supporters here to just come out and say they want to deter ALL attempts to cross the southern border, legal or illegal?
It's utterly astounding that you could characterize what Trump is doing as a 'logical attempt' at ANYTHING.
Yet they don't detain them while the await trial, DO THEY?
well yes they do. many people sit in jail waiting trial.
we don't just give them a ticket and say "y'all come back now" lol. and a very extremely high percentage of Illegal Immigrants with children do not return to court. see #13.
many people sit in jail waiting trial.
Yes we all know that all too many people are incapable of making bail, sometimes for minor crimes.
we don't just give them a ticket and say "y'all come back now"
Actually, that's a thing we call BAIL. What do you think the average bail is for a misdemeanor?
and a very extremely high percentage of Illegal Immigrants with children do not return to court. see #13.
Don't you just hate it when an author writes an article about a government report but intentionally fails to post a link to the actual document?
I for one much prefer to read documents for myself rather than rely on partisan pundit's interpretation of it's content. Many of your brethren have found that to be a irksome practice of mine.
Patricians have a way of twisting data to fit their agenda. I looked diligently for the report so that I could review it myself but it seems that after the Trump government website scrub, it has disappeared. If you can find it, I'd be more than willing to review it. As it is, no data means no proof.
Yes we all know that all too many people are incapable of making bail, sometimes for minor crimes.
Then why did you ask if you knew? Seems redundant.
Actually, that's a thing we call BAIL. What do you think the average bail is for a misdemeanor?
Actually it is not. Learn somethings about the requirements of release on bail. If all one got was a ticket, then who would be sitting in jail for not making bail, as you said above?
Why are American citizens not given the same rights and priviledges illegal immigrants are?
If you feel there is bias in the source, then you can easily disprove it, your brethren are so smart, right?
Of the 15,614 families caught crossing the border, but not detained, 4,197 have been ordered removed from the U.S. However, 96 percent of those removal orders were done "in absentia."
The EOIR states an "in absentia" order is done when a person fails to show in immigration court.
Geez, it just gets worst. Did you think they are bias too?
While a valid issue, IT IS NOT THE ISSUE OF THE TRUMP "ZERO TOLERANCE" POLICY.
• Illegal Entry is a MISDEMEANOR
• Asylum Seekers and Petitioners for Temporary Protected Status have a Legal Right to Do So
• Trump Lied about changing the protocol, has illegally placed children under arrest in violation of a BINDING CONSENT DECREE
• Sessions has lied about the intention to separate families as a DETERRENT
STAY ON TOPIC OR LEAVE THE DISCUSSION
ANYBODY can show up and claim asylum, bring a kid and your free to go, never to be seen again. That is exactly on point!
There is a binding consent decree that dictates the logistics of asylum claim adjudication … Trump and Sessions abrogated that and created the present crisis.
I have responded to this many times now … the realities haven't changed … please stay on that topic.
Then why did you ask if you knew? Seems redundant.
It isn't 'redundant' if one acknowledges that MOST get bail and aren't detained while waiting for their hearing/trial.
Actually it is not. Learn somethings about the requirements of release on bail. If all one got was a ticket, then who would be sitting in jail for not making bail, as you said above?
Actually, the ticket IS a promise to either appear before a judge or admit guilt and pay the fine.
Why are American citizens not given the same rights and priviledges illegal immigrants are?
Oh please DO cite the list of rights that illegal immigrants are given that American citizens are not. I'll wait...
If you feel there is bias in the source, then you can easily disprove it, your brethren are so smart, right?
If you feel that your source is reliable, you can easily prove that it's interpretation of the unlinked document is accurate. You and your brethren are smart right?
BTFW, you made the assertion, it is on YOU to support it.
That's how this shit works...
The Dems own this issue.
Trump owns it. Hell, I wouldn't even blame it on the GOP. Trump and sessions did it and they did it deliberately.
This crisis was years in the making and was set in motion by the Dem in DC and certainly in CA.
Hogwash. There was no zero tolerance policy enacted by Dems.
No reasonable person would buy that nonsense.
The Dems own this issue. They basically set everything in motion and now want to pretend their filthy ignoble politics have nothing to do with it.
Document this specifically or cease and desist with pronouncements that offer only accusations with no specifics; this "discussion" is becoming a pissing contest and if it continues, it will be locked.
Make factual statements, and/or, state opinions with specific facts to explain why one is of that opinion.
Trump's backing down validates that.
arbitrarily arresting babies,
such a flame thrower.....
These people who you say need asylum do not even respect the laws of the US.
Most do not show up for their hearings, disregarding the laws of our nation. What are they doing? Are they paying taxes, are they contributing to society for their children? Are they supporting the education and health benefits their children receive? If they need asylum, why are they not presenting themselves in court?
(CNSNews.com) – A recent report from the Department of Justice shows that of the nearly 12,500 illegal alien adults who were apprehended with children at the U.S. border and released between July 18, 2014, and May 26, 2015, whose immigration cases have been completed, at least 84 percent did not appear in court for the final decision.
arbitrarily arresting babies,such a flame thrower.....
These people who you say need asylum do not even respect the laws of the US.
They have the LEGAL RIGHT TO PETITION AS I HAVE EXPLAINED MULTIPLE TIMES.
You have had numerous responses to your attempts to change the discussion topic; please don't do again.
How are the babies Trump kidnapped? Who is feeding and bathing them? Are they ok, have any gotten sick? Have any died?? Have any doctors examined them? Is there paperwork that matches each child to their parents, can we even unite them if we try? Where ARE they? Why is the press being denied access to Trump's baby prisons?
I think they are being tied up and forced to watch Trump's speeches.
Did you care this much during Obama's presidency? Did you need all the details then? Do you need to know all the details of Social Services under HHS when they need to remove a child from their parent?
You did? Did you demand that the media be allowed to enter and film the children? Not having in any regard for the safety of the children. Did you demand to know where the documents are and how it is being processed? Did you demand to know all the locations, ages, length of stay? Did you demand to know who their caretakers where? Did you demand to know about any deaths?
I highly doubt it.
How fun does this sound?
“If you’re in Shiloh then it’s almost certain you are on these medications. So if any child were placed in Shiloh after being separated from a parent, then they’re almost certainly on psychotropics,” said Carlos Holguin, a lawyer representing the Center for Human Rights & Constitutional Law.
The court document alleges that children who refused to take the drugs were held down and given injections. It also said some workers tricked the children into believing the drugs were vitamins. “The staff told me that some of the pills are vitamins because they think I need to gain weight. The vitamins changed about two times, and each time I feel different,” one child said, according to the lawsuit.
Some children held at Shiloh reported being given up to nine different pills in the morning and six in the evening, including antipsychotic drugs, antidepressants, Parkinson’s Disease medication and seizure medications. They were told they would remain detained if they refused drugs, the lawsuit said. Children also said that after taking the drugs, they experienced side effects that rendered them fatigued and incapable of walking.
You did? Did you demand that the media be allowed to enter and film the children? Not having in any regard for the safety of the children. Did you demand to know where the documents are and how it is being processed? Did you demand to know all the locations, ages, length of stay? Did you demand to know who their caretakers where? Did you demand to know about any deaths?
I did more than complain about it on social media.
I highly doubt it.
Big shocker there. What have you done?
108 visitors
Deniers of REALITY … stop telling me about what you wrongly believe is "The Law"!!!!
Red Box Rule
Stupid, Hateful, Untruthful Ugly Comments will NOT NECESSARILY BE FLAGGED … rather, may stand as written so that their indecent stink might be present for all to see!
Are you pissed that he wrote the EO revoking the separation policy, and that now you can't use the faux issue to criticize him anymore?? Certainly looks that way And what do you think about the Democrat refusal to work toward a bipartisan comprehensive immigration bill??
I am pissed that his EO violated the law, that he lied about it, and, that he tried to keep his ass from caving on that EO, by LYING THAT HIS MESS WAS "CREATED BY DEMOCRATS AND COULD ONLY BE REVERSED BY CONGRESS!"
HE VIOLATED THE PROVISOS OF THE FLORES SETTLEMENT … HE IS IN VIOLATION OF LAW, IS GUILTY OF, by definition,"CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY," and, therefore, NO LEGISLATOR IN GOOD CONSCIENCE, SHOULD BE INVOLVED IN LEGISLATION THAT IS SURREPTITIOUSLY INTENDED TO COVER TRUMP'S ASS IN THE NAME OF "IMMIGRATION REFORM!" And I believe any bill will fail as legislators on both sides realize this, and know, the ultimate moral, ethical and political consequences!
Enjoy the font and stop being a dupe and apologist for to what is happening. Neither the law nor the facts are on your side!
READ the article! The EO violates the terms of the Flores Settlement despite the attempt to disingenuously allude to it as justification!
I have explained this in several threads …
The policy change DOES NOT DO ANYTHING TO REUNITE ILLEGALLY INCARCERATED CHILDREN WITH THEIR PARENTS!
And the "NEW" policy is so fucked up that formal proceedings have stopped SO THAT ANY POSSIBILITY FOR REUNIFICATION IS LOGISTICALLY IMPOSSIBLE!
Grasp the meaning of one hand not knowing what the other hand is doing!
And please, continue to post your myopic comments as … Stupid, Hateful, Untruthful Ugly Comments will NOT NECESSARILY BE FLAGGED … rather, may stand as written so that their indecent stink might be present for all to see and smell!
Ooooooh … TRUMP-level debate point!
The Flores settlement is not law, it is an agreement just as are all legal settlements.
By the way, you need to refer to the law from 2002:
The LEAST you can do is go READ the EO for yourself instead of asking to be hand feed all of the time.
Since it's presumed that Trump actually READ it himself [I know that is a leap of faith] they conveniently kept it to just a page and a half.
Yet Trump and his minions cited it as an excuse for separating families and also cited it's constraints in he EO.
The rest of your post is merely deflective flotsam and jetsam of the 'BUT HILLARY! agenda.
The Flores settlement is not law, it is an agreement just as are all legal settlements.
Reno v. Flores , 507 U.S. 292 (1993) was a Supreme Court of the United States case in which the Court held that the Immigration and Naturalization Service ’s regulations regarding the release of alien unaccompanied minors did not violate the Due Process Clause of the United States Constitution .
In 1997, after the Supreme Court remanded the matter to the District Court, the parties agreed to a consent decree in which the litigation would end once the government implemented certain standards for the detention, treatment, and release of unaccompanied alien minors. The District Court retained jurisdiction after the settlement and the case remains open and active as of June 2018.
CONSENT DECREES ARE MUTUALLY BINDING … Trump and his supporters have been arguing that the "ZERO TOLERANCE" EO is "law."
Can't have it both ways.
You implication is incorrect, that is, while Flores is rightly associated with Democrats, TRUMP AND HIS SUPPORTERS HAVE MISSTATED THE WAY IN WHICH IT APPLIES TO, AND ALLEGEDLY VALIDATES TRUMPS "ZERO TOLERANCE" EO!
In fact, the tenets of that agreement (Consent Decree) PROHIBIT WHAT TRUMP HAS DONE REGARDING SEPARATING CHILDREN FROM PARENTS!
SEE 1.1.14
The part I find interesting is that the two ACLU attorneys involved in the Flores case are still the only persons (who aren't ICE employees) who are allowed in to these detention centers to monitor the government's compliance with the consent decree. That's a huge and largely impossible job for two people, particularly given the number of blatant violations under the Trump regime.
No Mac - the EO does not violate the "agreement" - it supports it and follows EXACTLY what the Supreme Court directed.
" In 1997, after the Supreme Court remanded the matter to the District Court, the parties agreed to a consent decree in which the litigation would end once the government implemented certain standards for the detention, treatment, and release of unaccompanied alien minors. The District Court retained jurisdiction after the settlement and the case remains open and active as of June 2018 ."
Not only that Mac, but the so-called "agreement" that you and your fonts have so much difficulty reading and comprehending DEALS WITH UNACCOMPANIED ALIEN MINORS .
You are trying to start a pissing contest over something you "mis-read".
On June 11, 2018 Republican Senator from Texas Ted Cruz said in a Dallas public radio interview "There's a court order that prevents keeping the kids with the parents when you put the parents in jail." According to PolitiFact, Cruz's statement "contains an element of truth but ignores critical facts that would give a different impression" in that the Flores Settlement "doesn't mandate the separations occurring on the border...If anything, the agreement focuses on ways to protect immigrant children and to reunite them with their families."
On June 14, 2018, White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders told reporters, "The separation of illegal alien families is the product of the same legal loopholes that Democrats refuse to close. And these laws are the same that have been on the books for over a decade. The president is simply enforcing them," Republican Representative from Wisconsin and Speaker of the House Paul Ryan told reporters "What’s happening at the border in the separation of parents and their children is because of a court ruling, ” and Republican Senator from Iowa C huck Grassley tweeted "I want 2 stop the separation of families at the border by repealing the Flores 1997 court decision requiring separation of families. " The New York Times said "there is no decades-old law or court decision that requires" separating migrant children from their parents. On June 19, 2018 White House Legislative Affairs Director Marc Short told reporters t he Trump administration had sought legislative relief from Congress on the Flores Settlement, saying "In each and every one of our negotiations in the last 18 months, all the immigration bills, we asked for resolution on the Flores settlement that is what we view requires 20 days before you have to release children and basically parents been released with children into society."
And, as usual, the Demorats are so busy with their CRUSH TRUMP rhetoric, that they continually show their utter disdain of the U. S.
And all facilities under the agreement must be licensed.
Further …
Not only that Mac, but the so-called "agreement" that you and your fonts have so much difficulty reading and comprehending DEALS WITH UNACCOMPANIED ALIEN MINORS .
Ultimately, the Ninth Circuit ruled that the Flores settlement covered not just unaccompanied alien children but “accompanied” ones as well. It set a general standard that the government couldn’t hold them in custody for more than 20 days.
The Ninth Circuit stopped short of saying that parents could be released under Flores. But the federal government hasn’t responded to Flores by keeping families together for a few weeks and then splitting them apart.
Instead, it’s made a practice, for the most part, of releasing the whole family after 20 days. Since the current family detention facilities — two in Texas created under Obama, and an older one on Pennsylvania — are mostly full, they don’t have a ton of space to detain families anyway.
This is one example of what the Trump administration calls “catch and release.”
The Trump administration has always seen ending Flores as a “solution”
To the administration, the extra legal protections against indefinite detention of asylum seekers, and much stricter protections under the Flores settlement against indefinite detention of children and families, are nothing but legal “loopholes.” It would prefer to be able to detain all immigrants who enter the US without papers until their cases are resolved (and, preferably, resolve those cases as quickly as possible with deportation orders).
Keeping families together in immigration detention really would suit the government’s interests. It’s more expensive to keep parents in detention while children are under HHS care (or placed with sponsors or fosters) than to keep both in one detention facility. And legally, the government would be allowed to treat the family as only one case, with one shot to enter the US, rather than as two separate cases as parent and child.
Attorney General Jeff Sessions’s efforts to change asylum policy are intended to keep many immigrants fleeing gang violence from passing their initial asylum screenings — thus allowing the government to deport the whole family together quickly rather than allowing the child to enter the US to pursue a full court case. (However, the implementation of Sessions’s changes, at least for the moment, doesn’t appear to be as radical as was initially feared .)
The question is how to do it.
In theory, Flores could be superseded at any time by DHS regulations — it wasn’t supposed to be a de facto law, just a framework to keep in place while the government came up with permanent rules to ensure migrant kids were adequately protected. (Of course, what counted as “adequately” would be up to the court.) Or Congress could pass a bill that made it clear that children are allowed to be kept in Immigration and Customs Enforcement facilities just like adults are, wiping away the Flores settlement.
At first, Trump’s DHS was reportedly considering trying to go the regulatory route.
According to the Washington Post (in an April article), the proposed regulations would codify the government’s ability to separate families, but would also open the door to longer stays for families detained together:
But issuing regulations is a months-long process, and President Trump doesn’t have time for these things. Instead, he plunged ahead with the “zero tolerance” prosecution policy, making the separation of families a widespread occurrence — and prompting a groundswell of opposition that appears to be getting stronger by the day.
Getting rid of Flores means indefinite family detention
It’s not at all clear that Trump can, legally, issue an executive order that would override the Flores settlement. That’s why analysts are assuming that any order Trump issues to keep families together in DHS custody will be challenged by a lawsuit and may get thwarted.
Either the Trump administration will start keeping families in detention for as long as it takes to fully adjudicate their asylum cases — which can take months or years — or it will need to ram them through an “expedited” legal process to minimize their time in detention.
President Obama tried the latter in 2014. It went horrifically . Pro bono lawyers who went to family detention facilities (which were flung together in a matter of weeks) reported that it was all but impossible for families to get due process for their asylum claims.
The former is what families are still going through at the Pennsylvania facility. The long-term detention of immigrant children raises some of the same concerns that keeping them in custody without their parents does, in terms of long-term trauma. Bright lights in the Burks facility reportedly keep children from sleeping well, for example — and they can be disciplined if they try to climb into a parent’s bed for comfort.
Furthermore, getting rid of the Flores settlement entirely wouldn’t just get rid of the mandate to release children; it would also get rid of the requirements for what conditions children must be held in. In other words, the legal standards that undergird the Office of Refugee Resettlement facilities — standards that Trump administration officials brag are among the highest in the world — would be wiped away.
Depending on what replaced Flores, it’s possible that ICE could simply use existing adult detention facilities to herd children into as well.
The Trump administration could hold itself to higher standards. But for that matter, it could also find an alternative to detaining immigrant families that still allowed the government to ensure they showed up in court. It does not appear inclined to do so.
____________________________________
I believe this whole matter is being litigated this very day in California.
I'm concerned that those babies and toddlers aren't receiving the care they require. Anyone who's ever been a parent knows that very young children require 24 hour attention.
I am convinced that leaks in the forms of videos, photos, audio tapes and sworn affidavits … will tell what Trump, Sessions et al, have been hiding and lying about. And when the media is permitted into what, IMO, in some cases, amount to PROFITEER "BLACK-LIKE" SITES …THERE WILL BE GREAT HUMAN OUTCRIES … and … CHARGES LEVELED!
Oh...stop the BS, Mac. You're way smarter than to post such asinine comments
What is it like $750 a day to house these children? And it's going to contractors. We know how well contractors run prisons.....
Do share with us SPECIFICALLY, which comments are "asinine" and where/how they are factually inaccurate.
And it's time you and other Trumpians stopped with the one-liner, ad hominem, dismissive comments and made legitimate arguments …
… instead of sounding like and emulating your "Jess Willard."
Do you have any evidence they are not being given the proper care?
Do you have evidence that they are?
I take that as a no.
I take yours as a no
Yes, since it established policy NOT TO TOUCH a screaming baby, I posit that is pretty clear indication that they are NOT being given proper care.
Babies have to be held otherwise they experience lifetime mental issues.
When members of Congress, the media and the public are not permitted into the child-prisons, are not told where all the various "facilities" are located …
HOW THE FUCK CAN CARE BE ASSESSED!
Wake up!
When of the more 'humorous' aspects occurred when his daughter Ivanka congratulated him on twitter for solving the child separation issue.
Talk about oblivious.
She's the modern day Marie Antoinette
Yet she never once voiced her objection to it like Trump's wife did. Can't take the chance of upsetting Dadums, he might not help her get her Brand trademarked in NK for her. And workers there work for less than in China.
It's a non issue anymore. Now...it if only Democrats want to come to the table and help the Republicans craft a common sense immigration bill, including putting the DACA people on a fast track to citizenship,and having any caught illegal prove the children with them are in fact their own, and that they are in danger if sent back to their home country, if they are applying of asylum.
Yes, Trump signed the shinny object and all of y'all turned your heads and followed the sparkles.
No worries that they have NO FUCKING PLAN for how to reunite the families that they have already torn apart.
No worries that they now plan to house families on military facilities in tents [concentration camps], in 100+ temps and NO oversight from start or local officials and the media. Perhaps Trump will put Joe Arpaio in charge.
No worries that this could go on for MONTHS and during this time there is no guarantee that asylum seekers will have open access to legal counsel, medical treatment, psychological/spiritual counseling or be allowed to communicate with the outside world in any way.
All because the kneejerk Liar in Chief 'doesn't need to prepare', doesn't care about the CONSEQUENCES of his actions and because of the sycophants who support him, doesn't pay any political price for his YUGE mistakes.
Instead of holding him responsible for this debacle, y'all praise him for pissing on the fire he set.
To you, it obviously would be John.
Get the picture?
That little girl left with her mother.....I am seriously wondering about the propaganda posted daily.
From the he photographer who took her picture …
He told NPR that he quickly got on one knee and took a few quick shots of the little girl. Then, the mother picked her daughter back up and they got on the van to be taken away. He has no idea where the two are now. “I would very much like to know. Ever since I took those pictures, I think about that moment often,” he said. “And it's emotional for me every time.”
Photo shopping two unrelated pictures together to push an agenda is not propaganda anymore?
Is Time in the meme business now?
I do believe some have gone over the edge.
Explain the particulars, please.
Assuming you allude to the TIME cover … if you knew anything regarding EDITORIAL JOURNALISM, you'd know immediately the RELATIONSHIP between the two combined images … so let me help you …
• The little girl is crying because her mother is being attempting to do what the law permits in terms of petitioning for asylum or protected status
• Her mother, despite that to which she is legally entitled to petition for, is being "interrogated" while, she, the toddler, is apparently not, at that moment, allowed to be held by her mother … a traumatic situtation for a child of that age
• The "man" in the TIME cover image … is the one who created the circumstances leading to the situation.
How do you know all that? How do you know what the mother is talking about to the agent? Are you a mind reader? How do you know she isn't carrying contraband? Have you seen the original picture before it was used for propaganda? I have.
The mother is being detained and searched by a border agent. Do you want border agents to be accompanied by a nanny when they find illegals in the field. How can a suspect be searched holding a child...and the agent also needs to make sure that the child is not in any danger.
Exactly how did the "man" in the image create the circumstance of the mother crossing into the US illegally carrying a child. I don't think Trump was on that road forcing the mother to enter the US.
See how well two images are photoshopped together to create a false narrative. You have provided a good example of how dangerous propaganda can be.
Last time.
There WAS A PROTOCOL AND A LEGAL PATH TO PETITIONING FOR ASYLUM; ONCE TRUMP/SESSIONS ARBITRARILY CHANGED THAT PROTOCOL, EVERYONE CROSSING THE BORDER WAS TREATED AS GUILTY … BYPASSING THE LEGAL PROCESS!
A 2015 court order, based on a document called the Flores settlement, prevents the government from keeping migrant children in detention for more than 20 days. Trump has instructed Attorney General Jeff Sessions to ask the federal court to modify that agreement in order to allow children, and by extension, unified families, to be kept in detention without time limit.
Had the Trump administration followed the court order, families would not have been immediately subjected to separation and/or hassled in such ways as to alarm young children.
Question like yours … and those of other Trump supporters herein … while on their face, appear to be simply "asking" … in reality, are either rhetorical, gotcha' questions … OR, SHOW A PROFOUND IGNORANCE, WILLING OR OTHERWISE, OF THE FACTS.
Ironic, since those who cry "fake news" at the drop of an inconvenient truth, are the first to believe their own fake news.
I never bluff; if I make a statement, it's because I have taken the time to learn about whereof I speak; at times I am proven to be mistaken, I ADMIT IT! That's as it should be.
Questions posed by Trumpians are often a sign on ignorance, lack of information, or, being misinformed by bad information.
I appreciate that you have participated herein … but I will not continue respond to assertions with no basis other than to prolong a pissing contest. By all means, ask real, sincere questions, and, satisfy the burden of proof when accusing me of something.
Good Grief - I will say this plain as day for you....THE LITTLE GIRL'S PICTURE WAS TAKEN IN THE OPEN LAND BEFORE ANY DETENTION. HOW DID TRUMP FORCE THE MOTHER AND LITTLE GIRL TO BE IN THE OPEN LAND? YOUR BLATANT ATTEMPT TO BE DISENGIOUS ABOUT THE ORIGINATION OF THE PHOTO IS VERY TELLING.
THE SITUATION IS THE LITTLE GIRL IS STANDING ON A ROAD CRYING BECASUE HER MOTHER ENTERED THE US ILLEGAL. THEY HAVE NOT EVEN BEEN PROCESSED.
Good grief....TDS syndrome is truly a problem.
He looks a modern day WC Fields...."Go away kid. Ya bother me."
Sorry Mac - here ya go - fixed it for ya.
That's how Trump keeps his bigot base riled up, Wes.
• SEVERAL* REASONS AS TO WHY ILLEGALS COME TO AMERICA … THE MOTIVATIONS
√ (1) To escape the real threats of murder, rape, human trafficking and all sorts of mayhem at the hands of drug gangs/cartels, or …
√ (2) To sell illegal drugs to American BUYERS/USERS/DEALERS, or …
√ (3) To find work in America due to "slave-like wages and working conditions" in their native countries
* I'm sure there are other motivations but let's address these
I have worked for landscaping companies that sent funds to Mexico so that 'necessary employees' could pay to get back into the US. These guys had worked for the company for years BUT the company would rather hire illegally than follow the law. The companies also gave employees up front wages so they could get a fake drivers license and SS card.
The average wage in Mexico is $4.00 a DAY, these guys are making at LEAST $8.00 and HOUR, the 'necessary employees' at least $10.00 an hour.
Skilled laborers are HARD to find. We put an ad in and got 2 'American' applications for 8 landscape/nursery laborer openings, neither had two brain cells to rub together. The owner called down to Mexico, sent some more money and told the 'necessary employees' to bring a couple of good workers with them. They did and filled out the openings we had. They worked 12-14 hours a day and sometimes 6 days a week. They also, as a group, would do side jobs on the weekend to make as much money as they could during the season. When the season was over, almost every one of them went HOME. They want to see their family and get the hell out of Indiana for the winter.
The company hired 2 'American' landscape supervisors through a service, neither spoke Spanish [which means that a 'crew member is actually acting as a translator and quasi supervisor] and neither of them lasted a month. Thankfully, the owners FINALLY promoted the 'quasi supervisors', though they didn't pay them anywhere near what they paid the 'gringo' guys that bailed.
Now this is a family owned, VERY profitable landscaping/nursery company. The owner and his brother [the GM] are millionaires. They own plenty of land where they could set up proper H2A visa housing and easily afford to sponsor all the H2A workers they hire. They don't based purely on GREED. BTW, they are staunch supporters of the GOP. During the elections they let GOP candidates put their signs on their Nursery and Garden Center easements.
Every winery, orchard and landscape/nursery in my area hires 'illegal immigrants' every year. In my 20 years in the landscape/nursery field in INDIANA, I have never worked for a company that didn't.
That blows "they only come here to get free stuff" meme
Trump is an arsonist now?
Really?....the flame throwing is tiring. Have liberals learned nothing from the last election.
Keep with the false accusations, the constant dirty filthy language, hate, fear mongering, threats towards our President and his family, severed heads, threats of bombing the Whitehouse, the economy will crash, we will all die in a nuclear war, republicans are Nazi's, ICE agents are white supremacist, needing safe spaces away from "microaggression", and Russian spies everywhere and control everything!!
I guess the crazy left-wing radical liberals do not realize how much they have damaged the Democrat party. They just keep on showing how unstable they are.
The sad thing is, is that supposedly intelligent and educated people keep posting this type of insane drivel on a daily basis, and apparently actually believe it!!!
That begs the question, why do you insist on doing so?
You can debunk me because I write the truth, and you can't prove otherwise. No matter how many font sizes and colors you use.
what do you contribute?
"Drumpf is an ass" repeated all day everyday.
The intellect is mind blowing.
that is all
I debunk you all the time right here in black and white.
Thanks, I always wondered what his name meant in the original German.
Oh goody, another one whose most cogent statement is an emoji.
We all know this about Tessylo but glad you finally noticed.
some are a little slow
That's enough of gangbanging a member.
WHAT'S TRUE
The surname of Donald Trump's family was originally "Drumpf."
WHAT'S FALSE
Donald Trump's name was never "Donald Drumpf."
ORIGIN
On 28 February 2016, the host of Last Week Tonight with John Oliver launched into a lengthy segment about Donald Trump, which culminated with encouragement from Oliver to use Trump’s ancestral surname, “Drumpf.” (The relevant port
Swing and a miss.
My comment had NOTHING to do with Tessylo and everything to do with Sunshine's comment.
Of course you knew that but couldn't help but post snark...
You're annoying to the point where you can't even take a VERIFIED YES for an answer.
Please leave the discussion … you are trolling.
Thank you.
Lol, getting under people's skin is the entire motivation of some members, Mac, ignoring them is the best tack.
Dude why you have to keep talking about her. Give it up already.
Apparently you need to, analogies are similar.
It is a grenade....disingenuous to say the least. When did Trump claim hero status?
Ivanka did it for him!
Ivanka Trump faces backlash after tweeting about her father’s executive order to end family separations
Ivanka Trump on Wednesday tweeted a poorly received “thank you” to her father for signing an executive order that ensures families who cross the border illegally will no longer be separated.
“Thank you @POTUS for taking critical action ending family separation at our border. Congress must now act + find a lasting solution that is consistent with our shared values;the same values that so many come here seeking as they endeavor to create a better life for their families," she wrote in her tweet.
Among the many unfavorable responses was the tweet : “Ivanka, YOUR DAD IMPLEMENTED FAMILY SEPARATION. You’re praising him for something that’s literally all his fault?!?!”
Other critical comments included, “He created this crisis and now you are praising him.. it never had to be done in the first place. Let’s focus for now on moving forward and try to see how we can now reunite these kids w their parents,” and , “IT WAS HISADMINISTRATION’S POLICY, IVANKA, HE IS NOT THE HERO HERE.”
of course your reply is a personal attack, and you have the audacity to preach to others.
Again, when did Trump claim himself to be a hero?
Hillary did not lose because of alleged social media bots, nor what Comey did. Just about everyone had made up their minds much earlier, or had voted early. And you well know that this policy was well in place long before Trump arrived. We'll wait for some facts, uninformed opinions don't cut the mustard here.
The earliest of early voting doesn't start September, LONG after Comey's 'she sucks but she's not a criminal' speech and the DNC hack.
Presuming that you mean the Zero tolerence 'tear children from their parents' policy, that's a lie.
We'll wait for YOU to posts some facts though I for one won't be holding my breath.
Since you acknowledge that, WHY do you continue to post them?
Clinton lost for a number of reasons … SOME POSSIBLY YET TO BE REVEALED …
Hillary Clinton would probably be president if FBI Director James Comey had not sent a letter to Congress on Oct. 28. The letter, which said the FBI had “learned of the existence of emails that appear to be pertinent to the investigation” into the private email server that Clinton used as secretary of state, upended the news cycle and soon halved Clinton’s lead in the polls, imperiling her position in the Electoral College.
To be fair … the letter isn’t the only reason that Clinton lost. It does not excuse every decision the Clinton campaign made . Other factors may have played a larger role in her defeat, and it’s up to Democrats to examine those as they choose their strategy for 2018 and 2020.
But the effect of those factors — say, Clinton’s decision to give paid speeches to investment banks , or her messaging on pocket-book issues , or the role that her gender played in the campaign — is hard to measure.
The impact of Comey’s letter is comparatively easy to quantify, by contrast. At a maximum, it might have shifted the race by 3 or 4 percentage points toward Donald Trump, swinging Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Florida to him, perhaps along with North Carolina and Arizona. At a minimum, its impact might have been only a percentage point or so. Still, because Clinton lost Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin by less than 1 point, the letter was probably enough to change the outcome of the Electoral College.
And until we have a report from the Mueller Investigation, we may not know the whole story.
I gave a balanced comment regarding Clinton's loss … but you invariably fail to acknowledge candid statements … that's the Trumpian way … and you have it down pat.
Really ? Then Why did we hear about clinton's investigation before the election and not trumps investigation ? As a voter I would have liked to known both were under investigation before I voted. If I recall correctly, we didn't. All I remember was hildabeast was and then wasnt and then was again under investigation. I dont remember hearing trump was under investigation till after the election. How the Hell is that fair ?
Filthy language? Are you serious?
THE REALITY …
Right as Donald Trump signed an executive order Wednesday that clearly intends to allow indefinite jailings of entire families , he boasted of his new initiative: "Ok, you're going to have a lot of happy people." Not to shock anyone here, but Trump lied. Or should we say, he made a false claim that significantly overestimated the worth of his own actions.
Tragically, this national nightmare is nowhere near over for a very long list of reasons. Think about it like Trump's original Muslim ban, which was truly remarkable for how poorly conceived and executed it was and—even after the administration reworked it two more times—remains tied up in litigation today.
Unfortunately, Trump's colossal family separation failure is going to take many many months—if not years—of cleanup even as the administration tries to implement a new policy that is minimally more humane at best and equally as under-resourced and ill-conceived as the first effort.
Let's touch on a just a few of the upcoming challenges:
1) When Attorney General Jeff Sessions and DHS Sec. Kirstjen Nielsen began implementing their separation horrors, they put in place no mechanism whatsoever for tracking the separated children and reuniting them with their families. That contention was reaffirmed in the press call immediately following Trump’s EO signing.
The United States government now has thousands of orphaned children in its custody and absolutely no roadmap—let alone proper documentation—for reunifying these kids with their parents. Think about the jailed "tender age" kids—many of them can't even speak. How the hell is the government going to find their parents?
This will involve months and even years of agony for parents and children alike. And it's a f*cking outrage.
2) The administration's new policy is sure to end up in court , even Republican lawmakers are admitting it —as is the Justice Department.
In other words, in contravention of the 2016 Flores consent decree , the Trump administration will seek to indefinitely jail families for more than 20 days.
The pictures of thousands of people, including kids with eyes puffy from crying, aren't going anywhere.
3) The federal government will now be in a mad dash to set up “tent cities” across the U.S. to house these detained families. In fact, Trump's executive order instructs the Department of Defense to create space for keeping these families together, so the internment camps will likely be erected on federal military bases across the southern border.
The optics of this, not to mention the tragic human toll, are going to continue to be absolutely horrendous.
No problem, the little snotty nosed kiddos can get to stay with their border jumping parents. If they don't want to stay in "tent cities", let them have the option of being immediately deported instead of waiting for the standard asylum processing. Sounds like some here don't want to put a stop to illegal immigration. And it continues to be a non winning issue for the left.
Yep. Sounds pretty terrible. Maybe you shouldn't have badgered him to not separate families. At least the kids were in a comfortable facility. Now they're going to jail so they can be with their parents. Congratulations.
Whose fault is that ? Is it somehow the fault of the American government that people from other countries illegally cross borders without identification?
You keep acting like Trump went down to Mexico and extracted happy people from their homes so he could force them to live in jails or tent cities here in the US. Where is your criticism of MEXICO ? Or of other poverty-riddled, crime-infested Latin American countries where Justice is a stranger? Mexico actually encourages people to make this trek and they publicly hold the United States responsible for the welfare of their citizens . How in the world can you be ok with that?
Seriously, what if conditions in the United States were so bad that hundreds of thousands of us felt compelled to flee to Canada or some other place? Would you demand that Canada step up and save us or would you demand that justice be done right here in the United States?
You don't know that SINCE TRUMP HAS NOT PERMITTED MEMBERS OF CONGRESS, THE MEDIA OR THE PUBLIC INTO THOSE "COMFORTABLE FACILITIES" … NOR, HAVE TRUMP/SESSIONS REVEALED THE LOCATIONS OF ALL SUCH FACILITIES!
It's seriously a sad state when an intelligent person like yourself is incapable of using his imagination and envisioning anything but the black and white false choice you just cited. It makes me unwilling to waste any more time addressing the rest of your comment.
So you don't want these kids held in the comfortable facilities designed for holding children (
What would you like done with them then? Cut them loose into the streets? Hand them over to the first person with a van willing to take them?