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PHILLY SCHOOLS ADD MUSLIM HOLIDAYS BY CUTTING JEWISH ONE

  

Category:  News & Politics

Via:  buzz-of-the-orient  •  8 years ago  •  73 comments

PHILLY SCHOOLS ADD MUSLIM HOLIDAYS BY CUTTING JEWISH ONE

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T



PHILLY SCHOOLS ADD MUSLIM HOLIDAYS BY CUTTING JEWISH ONE

By Johanna Markind, American Thinker, June 22, 2018:

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Introduction

Back when public schools were overwhelmingly Christian, scheduling religious holidays meant closing for Christmas and, in some places, for Jewish high holidays.  As American school populations change, deciding for which religious holidays schools should close and on what basis becomes more complex.

According to Anti-Defamation League religious freedom counsel David Barkey, consistently with the First Amendment’s Establishment Clause, “[p]ublic schools can’t close to observe a holiday, but can if there’s an appropriate secular reason.  The reason usually is the level of absenteeism ” that would hamper schooling.

Philadelphia’s Mayor Jim Kenney suggested a different standard in announcing the city’s decision to close public schools for Muslim holidays.  Rather than focusing on practical need, Kenney explained: “Our city was built on the idea that … the city welcomes all to worship and practice the faiths of our culture or our choosing[.] … We have to take into account how society sometimes ostracizes and eliminates people from the mainstream[.]”  In other words, schools should close on minorities’ religious holidays so their adherents feel accepted.

Sadly, Philadelphia’s approach to holiday closures fails both standards.  Its public schools closed June 12, 2018 , in time for Muslim students to celebrate Eid al-Fitr, beginning June 15.  Without determining whether the numbers of practitioners necessitated the change, Philadelphia added Muslim holidays to its calendar to make Muslims feel welcome – and paid for it partly by reducing Jewish holiday observances, school district documents show.  What’s more, the school district underhandedly failed to identify the reasons for the change.

Philadelphia Changes Its School Calendar

On May 31, 2016, Philadelphia school district superintendent Dr. William Hite announced: “I’m honored and proud to announce that the school district fully intends to honor the eid celebrations for the many Muslim students and staff that celebrate these holidays.”  The 2016-17 academic calendar had already been finalized, Hite explained, so the holidays would be added in future years.

On December 15, 2016, Philadelphia’s School Reform Commission (SRC) adopted an unusual two-year calendar, for 2017-18 and 2018-19, which moved school start and end dates so as to bypass the two Muslim festivals both years, while reducing the Rosh Hashanah holiday beginning in 2018-19.

Specifically, Eid al-Adha began September 2, 2017 , on Labor Day weekend; Philadelphia schools started Tuesday, September 5 .  School ended June 12, 2018; Eid al-Fitr began June 15 .  In 2018-19, Eid al-Adha is expected to begin August 22 ; school starts the following Monday, August 27 .  School will end June 4, 2019; Eid al-Fitr is expected to begin on June 5 .

Effective 2018-19, the new calendar also eliminates a day from Jewish high-holiday closures.  Schools will close September 10 and be open September 11.  For many years, Philadelphia closed public school for both days of Rosh Hashanah and for Yom Kippur.  The reasons were practical: many public school teachers were Jewish, and so were several students.  It made sense to close schools rather than find a large number of substitute teachers, or teach with several students absent.

School district spokesman Harold Whack denied that the calendar change had anything to do with Muslim holidays.  Cheryl Logan, the school district’s chief of academic support, claimed that the school year was moved to give students more schooling earlier in the year.

Nevertheless, briefing notes for school superintendent Hite’s January 17, 2017 talk at a forum on “diverse and inclusive schools” boasted about the district’s “signature initiatives,” including “School District Calendar-SRC approves the recognition and observance of Muslim holy days: Eid al-Fitr AND Eid al-Adha on District calendar.”  A month after the new calendar was adopted, Hite boasted that the school district had succeeded in its signature initiative of recognizing Muslim holidays.

Logan identified Philly Eid Coalition, a consortium representing the Council on American-Islamic Relations ( CAIR ) and other groups, as a stakeholder in creating the school calendar.

Although Whack claimed that the calendar was changed after an “open process” that included Jewish community members, he could not name a single Jewish leader consulted or a single instance in which the intent to reduce Jewish holiday closures was spelled out.  A school district email from Logan obtained through an open records request claimed that the school district would include “Bnai Brith” in an October 11, 2016 meeting, but there is no indication that it actually did or that holiday closure changes were explained at the meeting.  According to Robin Burstein, senior associate regional director of the ADL’s Philadelphia chapter, the group has no record or recollection of having been consulted about reducing the Rosh Hashanah holiday.  Despite an open records request for same, the school district produced no records that it disclosed to the Jewish community its intention to reduce Jewish holiday closures before enacting the changed calendar, let alone that it did so to make room for Muslim holiday closures.

Philadelphia’s Rationale Fails to Satisfy First Amendment

Clearly, Philadelphia did not adopt the ADL’s approach to scheduling religious holidays.  It did not determine how many teachers or students wanted Jewish holidays off, nor does it have good data about the number of Muslims, let alone how many want holidays off.  Whack stated that the school district did not know how many teachers or students are Jewish.  He refused to answer whether it knew how many are Muslim.  Hite’s briefing notes assert that there are “28,000 Muslims in the School District,” but neither it nor Whack provided a source for that statistic.

U.S. census data indicated that there were only 39,540 Muslims in Philadelphia City and County in 2010.  In 2013, Temple University professor Khalid Blankinship estimated that there were 30,000 Muslims in Philadelphia.  Using either number, a school-age population of 28,000 seems excessive.

The 2009 Jewish Population Study of Greater Philadelphia estimated that the city has 66,800 Jews.

The Philly Eid Coalition sought closures on the grounds that their lack meant that Muslim “students and workers in Philadelphia don’t feel Islam is treated with the same respect as other faiths recognized and observed by our City.”  CAIR spokesman Ibrahim Hooper similarly applauded New York City’s decision to close for Muslim holidays, “When these holidays are recognized, it’s a sign that Muslims have a role in the political and social fabric of America.”  This is the approach Philadelphia seems to have adopted, but how shortening Jewish holidays to incorporate Muslim ones demonstrates respect for Judaism remains a mystery.

How to incorporate minority religious holidays into school calendars, without unduly disrupting schooling for non-observers or unfairly favoring some at the expense of others, is an issue likely to recur.  With increasing success, CAIR has lobbied for eid (holiday) closures in New York City ; Montgomery County , Maryland; Jersey City and Clifton , New Jersey ; Waterbury , Connecticut; Broward County, Florida; and elsewhere.  For the 2017-18 school year, public schools in New York City and Jersey City started after Eid al-Adha and closed for Eid al-Fitr.   Montgomery County schools started after Eid al-Adha and ended just before Eid al-Fitr.  American schools also have increasing populations of Buddhists and Hindus.

Readers may decide for themselves whether Philadelphia’s reorienting its school year to accommodate Muslim holidays, while simultaneously reducing Jewish holiday observances – without having or seeking good data about the need for holiday closures – squares with the First Amendment or demonstrates equality, respect, and acceptance for both religious minorities.


Article is LOCKED by author/seeder
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Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
1  seeder  Buzz of the Orient    8 years ago

Since the population number is not the reason, but inclusiveness is, I demand equal holidays for Buddhism, Hinduism, Taoism, Zoroastrianism, Sikhism, Baha'i, Paganism, and Atheism - slice them off of Christmas. And, are there no Native Americans in Philadelphia?

"Small steps, Sparks." - spoken by the father of Eleanor Arroway (played by Jodi Foster) in the movie "Contact"

And...Coming soon to a neighbourhood near you.

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Participates
2  epistte    8 years ago

Why should they give anyone a day off for a religious holiday? They have excused absences for those who seek to take part. Everyone else stays in school where they belong. Students would learn more in school about the holiday in question than they would by giving them the day off.

Maybe a themed lunch option for the religion or culture in question and 30 minute assembly at the end of the day.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
2.1  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  epistte @2    8 years ago

First of all, if you had read the article, you would have seen the reason - it is because too many teachers will be off requiring too many substitutes to be hired, and because many students, on those important holidays, need to spend the day in their place of worship, so too many students will miss the lessons of the day putting them at a disadvantage, so just being excused for the day does not work.

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Participates
2.1.1  epistte  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @2.1    8 years ago

It seems that they need to have more qualified substitutes on retainer because I find it hard to believe that there are that many Muslim students or teachers in an urban school district. 

All religious belief is slowly dying as people are more and more educated, which I see to be a very good thing. I cannot imagine how Christianity will wither and die and somehow there will be a groundswell of people converting to Islam, especially in the American southeast where religious belief is most pronounced.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
2.1.2  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  epistte @2.1.1    8 years ago

"I find it hard to believe that there are that many Muslim students or teachers in an urban school district."

As the article said, there are twice as many Jews as Muslims in the area, which does surprise me that they are "taking away holy day holidays" from Jews and "giving them" to Muslims. Maybe the number of religious Christians is reducing as more and more people, like yourself, are giving up their religion, so why not chisel the Muslim holdays from the Christian ones instead of the Jews' holy days? 

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Participates
2.1.3  epistte  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @2.1.2    8 years ago

According to a less hysterical source than the American Thinker, there is no mention that the holidays of other religions are being reduced.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
2.1.4  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  epistte @2.1.3    8 years ago

Sorry, I can't open that site.  However, giving a benefit to the Muslim community is something that that site is most likely proud to publicize, but doing so by taking something away from the Jewish community isn't, and I wouldn't blame them for not mentioning it, even if it just happens to be the truth. Remember, they were talking about "inclusiveness" here, and that's the major point, not what they most likely considered the "minor" one of "deprivation". So why am I not surprised?

By the way, I have no reason to believe the article is "hysterical" - it certainly seemed pretty academic and factual to me, nor do I have any reason to disbelieve the facts stated, that the Rosh Hashonah (Jewish New Year) school holiday that is celebrated by Orthodox and Conservative Jews in their synagogues for two days, has been depleted to one day only.  Do you have actual evidence that it is a lie - otherwise why your argument?  I really don't see the purpose in discussing the issue if you are denying the truth of what was reported, in which case I see no purpose in continuing this discussion with you, but thank you for a civil discussion (save for your unnecessary use of the word "hysterical").

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
2.1.6  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Tessylo @2.1.5    8 years ago
"They should remove them all!"

I assume that you mean that ALL religious holidays should be removed.  Otherwise by referring only to Jewish holidays your comment can be interpreted as being very ugly.  However, it is my understanding that only the Jewish High Holidays are (or in Philadelphia WERE) school holidays - i.e. the two days of Rosh Hashonah (New Year) and  the one day of Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement). In other words, three days. The other Jewish holidays are not HIGH holidays, and they are not school holidays.

 
 
 
zuksam
Junior Silent
2.1.7  zuksam  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @2.1.2    8 years ago
there are twice as many Jews as Muslims in the area,

I would only think it matters how many students of a particular faith attend the Schools. I don't know about Philly but in my area most Jewish families send their children to Private Schools, likewise with Middle Eastern Muslims who tend to either home school or send them to school at the Mosque run Schools. If things are the same in Philly then I would think the largest numbers in their Public Schools would be African American Muslims.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
2.1.8  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  zuksam @2.1.7    8 years ago

I don't know if you can logically compare your district with Philly - there have to be too many factors to take into consideration in different school districts - demographics are rarely equal.  As well, it's guesswork on your part with respect to African-American Muslims in the target district.  

The problem here is that school district spokesman Harold Whack says he does not know the number of Jewish teachers and students that there are, and he refuses to divulge the number of Muslim ones, which just makes me very suspicious of a cover-up, because the proper reason for school closings according to the Accommodations Act is not religious, but the secular problem of absenteeism (as outlined in the article). 

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Guide
2.1.9  MrFrost  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @2.1.2    8 years ago
As the article said, there are twice as many Jews as Muslims in the area,

Freedom of religion is not based on, "majority rule". If Jews are having their holidays observed, why should Muslims be treated any different? 

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Guide
2.1.10  MrFrost  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @2.1.2    8 years ago
As the article said, there are twice as many Jews as Muslims in the area, which does surprise me that they are "taking away holy day holidays" from Jews and "giving them" to Muslims. Maybe the number of religious Christians is reducing as more and more people, like yourself, are giving up their religion, so why not chisel the Muslim holdays from the Christian ones instead of the Jews' holy days?

If there were twice as many Muslims as Jews, would you support a Muslim holiday being removed, to allow for another Jewish holiday? 

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
2.1.11  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  MrFrost @2.1.9    8 years ago

I agree with you that depending on the issue of absenteeism being considered, Muslims are entitled to school holidays as much as Jews.  As has been said in the article and by me in at least one comment, American law indicates that school holidays should be based on the problem of absenteeism, not religion (or in the case of Philly NOT inclusiveness) so it has more to do with the number of students and teachers who are absent making lack of teaching/learning the issue. I agree with that. What I DON'T agree with is taking from one to give to another in the name of "inclusiveness".  The second day of Rosh Hashonah is one of three High Holiday days, and at least Orthodox and Conservative Jews spend that second day in the synagogue.  It has been declared a school holiday wherever absenteeism is an issue, except now in Philly. 

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
2.1.12  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  MrFrost @2.1.10    8 years ago
"If there were twice as many Muslims as Jews, would you support a Muslim holiday being removed, to allow for another Jewish holiday?"

NO - I'm not a hypocrite.

 
 
 
SteevieGee
Professor Silent
2.1.13  SteevieGee  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @2.1.4    8 years ago

The School District recognizes Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur according to the Philly enquirer. Too bad you can't open it.  2 days for Christians,  2 days for Jews, and now 2 days for Muslims.  Sounds fair to me.  The American Thinker is a Hysterical and biased publication.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
2.1.14  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  SteevieGee @2.1.13    8 years ago

There are 3 Holy High Holidays in Judaism - two days of Rosh Hashonah and one day of Yom Kippur - as I have said countless times already, Orthodox and Conservative Jews spend both days of Rosh Hashonah praying in the Synagogue.  Most school districts, depending on absenteeism which will be a factor for Jewish students and teachers, will provide three days for those holidays. If one was taken for the purpose of giving it for Muslim holidays on the basis of "inclusiveness" then that was illegal, contrary to the Accommodations legislation.

It will be interesting to see reports of that court case when they come out, because perhaps ALL of us are just speculating here.

 
 
 
96WS6
Junior Silent
2.1.15  96WS6  replied to  epistte @2.1.1    8 years ago
All religious belief is slowly dying as people are more and more educated,

Looks like you need to educate yourself  more on the matter.

While the world’s population is projected to grow 32% in the coming decades, the number of Muslims is expected to increase by 70% – from 1.8 billion in 2015 to nearly 3 billion in 2060. In 2015, Muslims made up 24.1% of the global population. Forty-five years later, they are expected to make up more than three-in-ten of the world’s people (31.1%).

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Participates
2.1.16  epistte  replied to  96WS6 @2.1.15    8 years ago

I was referring to religious belief among the US population because Philadelphia is an American city. 

Is a worldwide Muslim takeover something that you are concerned with? 

 
 
 
Skrekk
Sophomore Quiet
2.1.17  Skrekk  replied to  SteevieGee @2.1.13    8 years ago
The American Thinker is a Hysterical and biased publication.

Truly.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
2.1.18  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Skrekk @2.1.17    8 years ago

You use the word "truly".  Are all the facts and quotations in the article outright lies? You explained the Accommodations legislation to me so are you saying that it's not true that the legislation says that absenteeism should be the test for determining school closings?  If every religion should be treated equally, as proposed by epistte, rather than the numbers of anticipated absentees, then why don't all the other religions have school holidays?  In her opinion, then, if there was one Buddhist or one Hindu in the school, then it must close for as many days as for any other religion.

 
 
 
Skrekk
Sophomore Quiet
2.1.19  Skrekk  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @2.1.18    8 years ago
Are all the facts and quotations in the article outright lies?

They're not known for their accurate or unbiased journalism but rather their wingnuttery and fake outrage.    And as Epistte noted they even misrepresented the basic facts.    The Philly.com article notes that the city of Philadelphia plans to add the same two holidays to its municipal holiday schedule, and it notes that they're not exactly the first city to do this.....NYC already does it and other cities do too.

It's also not clear what you're whining about......are you just whining because these are Islamic holidays and you hate Muslims, or is there some other motive?

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
2.1.20  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Skrekk @2.1.19    8 years ago

First of all, I do not hate Muslims and I've made that clear so many times I'm getting fucking sick and tired of being accused of it. Who I hate are Jihadis, Islamic terrorists, those who demand SPECIAL benefits for themselves (i.e. not equal to the same rights anyone else has) and the Muslim clerics who preach killing the Jews, and I don't give a damn WHO knows or accuses me of that. I admire Muslims who are attempting to normalize relations with Israeli Jews, and those who are trying to reform Islam, like Nawaz, Anan Hirsi Ali, Dr. Jasser, Salmaan Rushdie and the Iranian Muslim population who are revolting against the Mullahs and are wanting to live modern peaceful lives. I also like the Muslims who are attempting to heal the relations with other religions and take part in genuine interfaith projects and conferences.  So if you intend to label me and generalize as you just have, DO NOT ADDRESS ME AGAIN.

I am NOT whining. I've made my point about illegal "inclusiveness" vs legal "absenteeism" SO MANY FUCKING TIMES ON THIS ARTICLE THAT, OBVIOUSLY, EVEN YOU SHOULD BE AWARE OF IT since you have knowledge of the Accommodations legislation, even if others don't have the capability to understand that point.

I'm sick and tired of being vilified to the extent that I believe it's intentional just to aggravate me, and so any more accusations that I'm an Islamophobe and this article is gone.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
2.1.21  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Skrekk @2.1.19    8 years ago
(deleted)
 
 
 
Skrekk
Sophomore Quiet
2.1.22  Skrekk  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @2.1.21    8 years ago

So why do you seem so outraged that an Islamic holiday is being recognized in a city which very likely has a significant Muslim population?   After all the city is at least 10% Muslim and only about 2.5% Jewish.    Lots of black Muslims there.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
2.1.23  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Skrekk @2.1.22    8 years ago

I'm not outraged, although the mother who is bringing the action is. If I am outraged, it is because I do not feel it is necessary to override the Accommodations legislation to provide a holiday by taking a necessary one away from another religion, and it would not matter to me if the parties involved would be Buddhist or Baha'i or Hindu or whatever. My God, YOU'RE the one who champions the Accommodations legislation. Tell me why it DOESN'T apply in this case, because I've had to repeat the issue about 10 times here already. Is everyone just plain dense, or what?

 
 
 
SteevieGee
Professor Silent
2.1.24  SteevieGee  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @2.1.14    8 years ago

So...  What you want is more holidays for Jews than for the others?

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
2.1.27  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  SteevieGee @2.1.24    8 years ago

"What you want is more holidays for Jews than for the others?"

YOU KNOW WHAT?  I GIVE UP.  NO MATTER HOW MANY TIMES I HAVE SAID WHAT THE ISSUE IS HERE, THAT "INCLUSIVENESS" IS NOT A PERMITTED REASON FOR A SCHOOL HOLIDAY AS OUTLINED IN YOUR ACCOMMODATIONS LEGISLATION, ONLY ABSENTEEISM IS, NOBODY WANTS TO ADDRESS THE ISSUE, THEY JUST WANT TO TALK ABOUT RELIGION.  RELIGION IS NOT THE ISSUE, ABSENTEEISM IS THE ISSUE. THE ACCOMMODATIONS LEGISLATION IS THE ISSUE.  I'M SICK OF TRYING AND TRYING AGAIN TO EXPLAIN THIS TO THE MEMBERS HERE WHO HAVE NO FUCKING CLUE WHAT THIS IS ABOUT.  AND SO I'M DONE WITH THIS ARTICLE.  IT'S NOW BEING CLOSED FOR GOOD.

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
2.2  Tacos!  replied to  epistte @2    8 years ago
Why should they give anyone a day off for a religious holiday?

Oh geez! Did you run out of puppies to kick?

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Participates
2.2.1  epistte  replied to  Tacos! @2.2    8 years ago
Oh geez! Did you run out of puppies to kick?

I have never kicked a puppy in my life, so I would appreciate an apology. I do not abuse animals.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Expert
2.2.2  Ender  replied to  epistte @2.2.1    8 years ago

At least you can say you were around to see one. Happy

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Participates
2.2.3  epistte  replied to  Ender @2.2.2    8 years ago
At least you can say you were around to see one.

Don't get your hopes up.

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
2.2.4  Tacos!  replied to  epistte @2.2.1    8 years ago
I would appreciate an apology

Indeed? How would your appreciation manifest? Would you maybe stop being so mean to religious people? That might be worth an apology.

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Participates
2.2.5  epistte  replied to  Tacos! @2.2.4    8 years ago
Indeed? How would your appreciation manifest? Would you maybe stop being so mean to religious people? That might be worth an apology.

Schools exist to educate children for 8 hours per day.  The school day should be longer instead of giving them entire days off for religious belief.  They have the time of day with their family before and after school for religious celebrations.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
2.2.6  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  epistte @2.2.5    8 years ago

Not every religion is just an "after-hours" cult. On Rosh Hashonah and Yom Kippur religious Jews spend the whole day in the synagogue as that is what is mandated.  I wish Enoch, who is an Orthodox Jewish Rabbi, would enter this commentary and teach those who don't have the knowledge but proffer opinions notwithstanding.

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Participates
2.2.7  epistte  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @2.2.6    8 years ago
Not every religion is just an "after-hours" cult. On Rosh Hashonah and Yom Kippur religious Jews spend the whole day in the synagogue as that is what is mandated.

Those religious students who want to take the day off have an automatic excused absence because of the holiday.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
2.2.8  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  epistte @2.2.7    8 years ago

Let's try to back up here a bit, epistte.  The "absenteeism" purpose in declaring a school holiday is because if enough teachers are absent causing too much requirement for substitutes, and/or enough students are absent who will not be taught the required lessons because of their absenteeism, then a holiday can be declared. Holidays are not necessarily declared when there is no such absenteeism, or, I am sure, if it is minimal (as was my case when I was the only non-Christian in my class and one of 3 or 4 in the whole school, and all the teachers and the principal were Christians - no special holidays for me).

Hey, if you're not happy with what can legally be done in the schools, then start your own private school that satisfies all your complaints, or try to get the law changed, but constantly bringing up issues that are irrelevant to the issue of the article is starting to take up too much of my time, and I will have to start flagging your comments as "off topic", which I have until now had the fortitude to resist.

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Participates
2.2.9  epistte  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @2.2.8    8 years ago

The school district should have more substitute teachers on retainer. 

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
2.2.10  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  epistte @2.2.9    8 years ago

Okay, you tell them that.  Perhaps you will be able to change their procedure, but then maybe they'll ask you to pay for the increase in order to meet their budget. 

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
2.2.11  Tacos!  replied to  epistte @2.2.5    8 years ago
The school day should be longer instead of giving them entire days off for religious belief.  They have the time of day with their family before and after school for religious celebrations.

Or you could stop being so uptight and just let them have the day off.

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Participates
2.2.12  epistte  replied to  Tacos! @2.2.11    8 years ago

Closing the entire school district for the celebration of religious beliefs of one group is counterproductive to the district's goal of public education. If your religious belief is that important to your family then either take the excused absence for the day or send your child to a religious school. 

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Guide
2.2.13  Sparty On  replied to  epistte @2.2.12    8 years ago
Closing the entire school district for the celebration of religious beliefs of one group is counterproductive to the district's goal of public education.

Suggest keeping schools open on those religious holidays.    Lets see how well that goes over with all the teachers and staff at your schools.   

You will get tarred, feathered and run out of town a rail.

 

 
 
 
Galen Marvin Ross
Sophomore Quiet
2.2.14  Galen Marvin Ross  replied to  epistte @2.2.12    8 years ago
Closing the entire school district for the celebration of religious beliefs of one group is counterproductive to the district's goal of public education. If your religious belief is that important to your family then either take the excused absence for the day or send your child to a religious school.

Ya know, I rarely agree with the folks who are debating you on this but, I must agree with them now, not for the reason that these are religious holidays but, sometimes kids need time away from school to have fun, holidays are just that, fun, I love celebrating Yule, Samhain and, Easter, they're my biggest holidays and, I know that kids love at least two of them so, in the immortal words of Pink Floyd,

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Guide
4  MrFrost    8 years ago

When I was a kid, we got very few holidays off from school. The major ones, (Christmas, Thanksgiving, etc...). 2018. My 14 year old daughter is out of school at LEAST once a week for....[insert holiday here/"professional" day]. I would suspect that this school district, (and others around the country), have reached the tipping point of holidays/time off for whatever ridiculous reason comes up. Perhaps what is going on here is that they simply cannot justify adding more time off, so, something else has to go. "Keeping balance". Freedom of religion was penned so no one religion can be elevated above another, or, be used to enact laws... The article wants to spin this as the Jews getting screwed over, (and their bias against Muslims is pretty obvious). I see this as an attempt to give Muslims their religious rights, just as other religions get theirs. 

IMHO. 

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
4.1  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  MrFrost @4    8 years ago

That is ridiculous. It's okay for Muslims to have their rights, but not for Jews?  What does that make you?You are not saying there should be equality, but it's okay to steal from one to give to another in the name of "inclusiveness" even though your Accommodations law does not allow for it. I'll bet you honour the Accommodations law when it comes to bakers refusing to decorate a cake for a gay wedding.  So in one case it's okay and another it isn't?  What's the word for that?

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Guide
4.1.1  MrFrost  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @4.1    8 years ago
I'll bet you honour the Accommodations law when it comes to bakers refusing to decorate a cake for a gay wedding.

I was trying to express my opinion in a rational manner and you reply by attacking me? You will not see me participating in any of your discussions from here on out. Good day. Also, not sure what the fuck a wedding cake has to do with this article? Maybe you should flag yourself for being off topic. 

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
4.1.2  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  MrFrost @4.1.1    8 years ago

So the member who posts: (bolding is mine to make my point)

"The article wants to spin this as the Jews getting screwed over, (and their bias against Muslims is pretty obvious)."

goes on to say to me:

"I was trying to express my opinion in a rational manner and you reply by attacking me?"

Well, yes, because of your vicious comment about Jews, and because of your support in using "inclusiveness" which is illegal as the reason for screwing Orthodox and Conservative Jews from a necessary day of synagogue worship when their holiday is legal within the Accommodations law.

Both this article and the "wedding cake" article gain their relevance through the Accommodations legislation. It is very much on topic as an example of the meaning of that law.

"You will not see me participating in any of your discussions from here on out."

Thank you. That is a favour to me, [deleted]

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Expert
4.2  Ender  replied to  MrFrost @4    8 years ago

Here they keep so many days for emergency. I think it is a week. In case of hurricane or the like.

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Participates
4.2.1  epistte  replied to  Ender @4.2    8 years ago
Here they keep so many days for emergency. I think it is a week. In case of hurricane or the like.

In Ohio, they are mandated to have 5 emergency days scheduled into the school year, but in truth, it is more like 10 days if the weather is bad.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
4.2.2  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Ender @4.2    8 years ago

Where I came from, in Ontario, heavy snow or ice storms caused school closings - and for us kids it was a VERY welcome holiday.

 
 
 
DocPhil
Sophomore Silent
5  DocPhil    8 years ago

Ultimately, the concept of closing school for religious holidays should be a violation of church and state issues. The reality is that the issue becomes one of fiscal necessity. We call Christmas-New Year the winter break and the Easter/Passover time the spring break. The idea of providing holidays for various religions because of economic reasons is basely hypocritical. If I am not an observer of any religion, I am not observing anything but a day off from school. I am learning nothing. 

We could do one of a number of things to remedy the situation. First, we keep the schools open for everything but national holidays between September and June. Students of a religious persuasion would be given excused absences for time lost for observation of religious observances. This solution would, of course, become variable given the different 1818emphasis given to different holidays in each faith belief. What constitutes a major holiday from a minor one? Do sects within religions place different emphases on different holidays? Still some problems.

We could run a school year that guarantees students and teachers a minimum of 180 days of active instruction. Holidays can be allowed and students would then attend school after the end of the year in order to complete the 180 day minimum. The problem here is that every student would have a different amount of instruction due to them and that instruction could be all over the place. Too many problems.

Third, we could run a 12 month, 220 day school curriculum rather than a 10 month, 180 day curriculum. Students could have up to six days a year to celebrate and/or observe religious holidays. The students would be responsible for work lost while out for religious observance. This is an expensive option, but over a course of a 12 year education, the student receives approximately 480-72 or 408 additional instructional days. This translates to approximately two additional years of educational programming.  Not only does this at least equiviuently solve the absentee problem for religious observance, but it places our students at greater competitive edge in the world market.

Finally, we could keep doing what we are doing in an increasingly diverse nation. That will make education an even more combative element than it currently is. That is probably the worst option.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
5.1  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  DocPhil @5    8 years ago

Up until now the issue of absenteeism to determine school closings has worked just fine, no complaints. It is making the illegal wish for "inclusiveness" and stealing one of the three legal holidays from the only three Jewish holiest days of the year to give it to a different religion (it need not have been Islam, the same issue exists if it were Buddhism or Hinduism) even when absenteeism would REQUIRE a school closing for the stolen day.

Why is everyone ignoring the issue of absenteeism, which is the permitted reason in your American law, for declaring a school holiday?  A holiday for the purpose of "inclusiveness" is NOT A LEGAL USE, and going so far as stealing from another religion to accommodate that is despicable.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
6  JohnRussell    8 years ago

Christmas and Easter are essentially secular holidays for a lot of people, and they should be the only "religious" holidays with days off for public schools.  And Easter always falls on a Sunday .

Give every kid five personal days a year like they do at a company for the employees and leave it at that. The kids could use the personal days for their religious holidays or whatever (gone fishin')

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Guide
6.1  Sparty On  replied to  JohnRussell @6    8 years ago

Progressive nonsense.    And that’s all she wrote!

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
6.1.1  JohnRussell  replied to  Sparty On @6.1    8 years ago

It's neither progressive or not progressive. It's just common sense. Let the kids decide what religious holidays they want to observe. 

Except for the Christmas and Easter break. Everyone gets those. 

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
6.1.2  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  JohnRussell @6.1.1    8 years ago

Can you imagine the uproar if Christmas or Easter holidays were shortened in order to provide "inclusiveness" for another religion, and NOT because of the only legal right - absenteeism.

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Participates
6.1.4  epistte  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @6.1.2    8 years ago
Can you imagine the uproar if Christmas or Easter holidays were shortened in order to provide "inclusiveness" for another religion, and NOT because of the only legal right - absenteeism.

They should be shortened. Teach the rug rats logic and history, so they don't grow up to be religious believers.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Guide
6.1.5  Sparty On  replied to  epistte @6.1.4    8 years ago
Teach the rug rats logic and history, so they don't grow up to be religious believers.

Public schools don’t teach religion per se so don’t get your panties in a bunch over it.     Considering that, i’d be happy if public school test scores were going up and not trending down like they are today.

That said, folks like Stalin would approve of your stance on the issue.    So you got that going for you.

 
 
 
user image
Freshman Silent
6.1.6    replied to  Sparty On @6.1.5    8 years ago
get your panties in a bunch

E.A  Hate has deeeep roots, once one starts to Hate, changing is next to impossible!

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Participates
6.1.7  epistte  replied to  Sparty On @6.1.5    8 years ago
That said, folks like Stalin would approve of your stance on the issue.

The kids have the right to believe as they choose, just as they do now, but the schools should teach logic.

Do you have a problem with teaching logic instead of giving people the day off? As long as all religions are treated equally by the schools there isn't a problem.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Guide
6.1.8  Sparty On  replied to  epistte @6.1.7    8 years ago
The kids have the right to believe as they choose, just as they do now, but the schools should teach logic.

They do teach logic and again, don’t teach religion.

Do you have a problem with teaching logic instead of giving people the day off? As long as all religions are treated equally by the schools there isn't a problem.

I’m for year round school, always have been.    However one of the biggest bastions of left wing politics, the NEA is usually the main problem with adding more days.    So you gotta get them fully on board first and good luck with that.      And if kids do get extra school days I would suggest they concentrate on STEM basics first.    Logic is great but it don’t pay the bills or do much to help us keep up with other countries who do concentrate harder on STEM in their schools.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
6.1.9  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  epistte @6.1.7    8 years ago
"As long as all religions are treated equally by the schools there isn't a problem."

Then you don't agree with the Accommodations legislation, that school closings should be based on absenteeism, and NOT for "inclusiveness"?

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Participates
6.1.10  epistte  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @6.1.9    8 years ago

How many students who are not either Jewish or Musilm now lose a day of school? Their parents now need to find a daycare provider to watch them or take a personal day from work.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
6.1.11  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  epistte @6.1.10    8 years ago

That is not the issue - that situation exists in accordance with the education systems of pretty well every western nation, and it's not likely going to change. The issue in the seeded article is whether "inclusiveness" can illegally (according to the Accommodations legislation) be used to create school holidays when it is "absenteeism" which is the legal method.  Stick to the topic or post your own article on your choice of topic.

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Silent
7  charger 383    8 years ago

Absenteeism is why a lot of rural areas give first day of deer season off.  

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Participates
7.1  epistte  replied to  charger 383 @7    8 years ago

In my high school, the entire week of deer season was an excused absence if the kids wanted it. We also got a day off of school for the Monday of the country fair because that is when 4H kids had their animal showings, plus there was a HS band concert.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
7.1.1  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  epistte @7.1    8 years ago

Days off due to absenteeism is law-abiding and logical.  "Inclusiveness" is neither.  That is the point of the article.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
7.2  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  charger 383 @7    8 years ago

"Absenteeism is why a lot of rural areas give first day of deer season off." 

And that is law-abiding and logical.  "Inclusiveness" is NOT, and stealing Holy Days off from another religion to do so is NOT.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
8  seeder  Buzz of the Orient    8 years ago

This is somewhat of a controversial issue, it appears. Therefore, since I will be retiring for the night in about 20 minutes I intend to lock this article and will reopen it in about 10 to 11 hours from now.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
9  seeder  Buzz of the Orient    8 years ago

Unlocked and open for business.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
11  seeder  Buzz of the Orient    8 years ago

YOU KNOW WHAT?  I GIVE UP.  NO MATTER HOW MANY TIMES I HAVE SAID WHAT THE ISSUE IS HERE, THAT "INCLUSIVENESS" IS NOT A PERMITTED REASON FOR A SCHOOL HOLIDAY AS OUTLINED IN YOUR ACCOMMODATIONS LEGISLATION, ONLY ABSENTEEISM IS, NOBODY WANTS TO ADDRESS THE ISSUE, THEY JUST WANT TO TALK ABOUT RELIGION.  RELIGION IS NOT THE ISSUE, ABSENTEEISM IS THE ISSUE. THE ACCOMMODATIONS LEGISLATION IS THE ISSUE.  I'M SICK OF TRYING AND TRYING AGAIN TO EXPLAIN THIS TO THE MEMBERS HERE WHO HAVE NO FUCKING CLUE WHAT THIS IS ABOUT.  AND SO I'M DONE WITH THIS ARTICLE.  IT'S NOW BEING CLOSED FOR GOOD.

 
 

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