After ICE raid, a 12-year-old U.S. citizen adjusts to life without parents
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
He had been afraid to go outside since his mother was detained in an immigration raid 14 days earlier, but now someone was pounding on the front door of their trailer. Alex Galvez, 12, waited until the knocking stopped and then cracked the door open to find a small flier left behind on the top step. He carried it into the kitchen and read it to his older sister. “Emergency giveaway outside the Post Office! Free food in your time of need!”
“I’m not going,” Alex said, once he’d finished reading the flier. It had been the promise of free doughnuts that enticed his mother and dozens of her co-workers out of the planting fields and into the break room that day, where instead they had been met by 200 federal agents with plastic handcuffs and guns. Alex folded up the flier and tossed it onto the table.
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“I’m sorry, but I think you need to go,” said his sister, Estefany, 18. “We could always use the food.”
“No. I don’t want to.”
“We can’t hide in here forever,” she said, handing him an empty plastic bag. “I have to go to work. You’re the only one who can do it.”
Since the day of the raid, they had been staying in the trailer with a rotation of older relatives — two more children adjusting to a life without their parents as a result of U.S. immigration policies. Even as President Trump and his administration promise to reunite families separated by Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) at the U.S. border, a similar crisis continues unabated within the country’s interior, where children are separated from their undocumented parents with little scrutiny and increasing frequency.
In the past few months, ICE has carried out the three biggest workplace immigration raids of the past decade, including one on June 5 at a nursery here in rural Ohio, where 114 gardeners, florists and other workers were detained and put into court proceedings for deportation. Many of them had lived for several years in a Norwalk trailer park of 74 homes known as Little Mexico, where now aid workers estimate that more than 90 children are missing one parent and at least 20 are left with no parent at all.
One of them is Alex, an American citizen like most children in the trailer park, with a wardrobe of Cleveland Cavaliers T-shirts and frosted tips dyed orange at the barbershop inside Walmart. He’d spent all 12 of his years in Norwalk, population 17,000, and for much of that time he’d lived in the trailer parks of Little Mexico, in a beige double-wide with his sister and mother, Nora Galvez, who first came to the United States in 1999. The air outside their trailer smelled of smoke and rubber from the neighboring pallet factory. The favorite community soccer field was in fact a gravel lot. But Alex knew every one of the 74 families in the two trailer parks, and he and his friends could wander freely on their bikes from one trailer into the next. Many people in conservative Norwalk regarded Little Mexico as an ugly annex, a place to be left alone, but to Alex that meant it had always felt peaceful and undisturbed.
Now he walked out of the trailer with his empty shopping bag into a scene that looked to him like something out of “Fortnite,” his favorite apocalyptic video game. There were gardens of dying flowers and trash cans overloaded with uncollected garbage. More than a dozen trailers had been abandoned in the hours after the raid, and many of them had windows left open or toys scattered in the yard. Five residents of Little Mexico had been deported, and 34 others remained in detention, including Alex’s mother. Several more residents had packed up and fled Ohio that night, after a rumor spread that ICE was also planning to raid the trailer park. Those who remained were mostly out of a job or too afraid to go to work, and after two weeks of unpaid bills, some had also lost their electricity.
“A ghost town,” Alex called it, as he made his way toward the one-room post office at the center of the park, but what bothered him more than the rows of darkened trailers was imagining what might be happening inside. He had heard about the 27-year-old who mysteriously stopped eating or speaking in the days after his sister was detained in the raid, eventually dying in the hospital a week later. He knew about the 23-year-old who had become suicidal after his girlfriend’s family decided to flee for Mexico, hanging a noose outside of his trailer until a relative took him to a hospital.
On the exterior walls of the post office, Alex saw a few new brochures for suicide hotlines and free mental-health counseling. A few dozen people were gathered outside, mostly children, young mothers and several volunteers from local nonprofit organizations. One of them handed out crayons and bubbles to children. A woman distributed crates of eggs from the back of her truck. A nurse checked residents’ blood pressure. Volunteers came up to Alex offering pizza, milk, vegetables and books, until he began to politely wave them away.
“We’re fine,” he said. “We don’t really need much.”
“Are you alone now?” one volunteer asked, and Alex shook his head.
“I’m with my sister,” he said.
“I’m sorry,” she said, reaching for his shoulder, tears welling in her eyes. “I can’t believe this is happening to you. It’s unthinkable.”
“Thanks,” he said. “It’s okay. I’ve been through it before.”
One of the things that had confused him during the past few weeks was the shock he sometimes saw reflected back at him in strangers’ faces — the volunteers who toured the trailer park in utter disbelief, or the TV anchors who broke down in the middle of their live broadcasts from the U.S. border. They said separating a parent from a child was cruel and un-American. They said the United States was in the midst of a singular humanitarian crisis. They said these were the actions of a country they no longer recognized. But, to Alex, the act of family separation seemed quintessentially American. It was the cornerstone of his American experience.
His father had been deported when Alex was 3, yanked from work during a raid at Casa Fiesta, a local Mexican restaurant, and then flown back to Chiapas. An uncle had been deported two years later, and then an aunt had left for Mexico a few months after that, forcing their two children to stay for a little while in Alex’s trailer. At age 8, he and his mother had been pulled over on their way home from Walmart by ICE agents, who detained them in a holding facility overnight before releasing them, since Nora was a longtime Ohio resident with no criminal record and therefore, according to her court paperwork, “not a priority for removal.” Four other relatives had been deported or fled to Mexico in the years since then, a family reshaped again and again by separation. Alex’s father remained in Chiapas, with a new wife and two half brothers Alex had never met. His half sisters had come and gone between Mexico and the United States. The only person Alex had never been separated from was his mother.
So that night, when his sister Estefany came home alone from work at Corso’s Flower and Garden Center, Alex suspected what had happened, even as his sister began filling in the details: ICE agents had arrived at 7:15 a.m., wearing camouflage and tactical gear, swarming the greenhouses with the help of barking K9s and helicopters, rounding up several hundred employees and then separating them into two lines. Estefany, who was born in Ohio, had gone into one line for U.S. citizens, and her mother had gone into the line for undocumented workers. Agents had handcuffed her mother with plastic zip ties and led her toward a bus, and Estefany had run to join her, trying to convince ICE agents that she, too, was undocumented. But inside her wallet was a U.S. Social Security card, so agents led Estefany back into the other line for citizens as her mother boarded the bus. Nora shouted over her shoulder that there was $140 cash in the house and that Estefany needed to remind Alex to wash out his knee. He had skinned it a few days earlier in a bike accident, a small surface wound. “Make sure he washes it twice a day,” Nora called out, before the bus pulled away.
Estefany was old enough to act as Alex’s legal guardian, and she had been trying her best to take care of him with the help of other relatives, even as she was learning how to take care of herself. She had originally applied to Corso’s for a summer job, hoping to make a little money before starting her final year of high school, but now she was the family’s primary earner, with no plans to return to school. She had written her first rental check and returned to work at the nursery wearing sunglasses big enough to hide her puffy eyes. Other relatives were helping with cooking, child care and errands, but Estefany considered herself responsible for Alex, even now, as the sky darkened outside their trailer on their 15th night alone.
“It’s getting late,” she told him. “We need to be better about going to bed.”
“I know,” he said,
“You should get ready,” she said.
“In a little while,” he told her.
They had been sharing a room for the past weeks, relying on each other’s company to make it through the night, since both of them struggled to sleep. On the first night after the raid, they had driven at 2 a.m. to the Customs and Border Protection station in Port Clinton, Ohio, to ask if their mother was inside, but Estefany said nobody would tell them. On the second night they had driven back, and this time they were told that Nora was inside but they couldn’t see her. On the third night they had tried one more time, and when they were stopped at the door Estefany had lost her patience. “Who benefits from this?” she remembered asking. Was it American taxpayers, who were paying to finance the raid and resulting deportations? Or American workers, most of whom were so disinterested in low-paying farm work that Ohio had announced a crisis work shortage of 15,000 agricultural jobs? Or Corso’s Nursery, a family-owned business now missing 40 percent of its employees?
She wanted to know, out of 114 minimum-wage workers detained at Corso’s, how many were narcos, or rapists, or cartel members, or killers for MS-13? “These were just hard-working people, making $9 an hour and going about their lives,” she remembered saying.
Alex, meanwhile, had decided to write a letter to ICE. His mother was still in detention, waiting for her first court date on the possible path toward deportation, and he thought maybe he could still help her. “The only thing my Mom ever did was work,” he had written. “She loved me so much. I can’t live without my Mom. I don’t have anybody but her. I have been crying every day. I can’t sleep.”
“Come on. Let’s go to bed,” Estefany said again. It was nearing midnight, but Alex turned on a Harry Potter movie.
“A little bit longer,” he said, and Estefany sat down next to him.
Alex was still on the couch the next morning, wrapped under a blanket and watching soccer on TV when his phone rang. He looked down at the restricted number and waved to his sister. “It’s her!” he said. Then he answered the phone and put it on speaker.
“Hi, Mom,” he said.
She tried to call home from detention a few times each week, even though it meant paying nearly $1 per minute. Alex and his sister had been allowed to visit her for the first time six days after the raid once she’d been moved to a detention facility in Tiffin, Ohio, where they spoke for 15 minutes through a shield of plexiglass. His mother had started to cry when she saw Alex, and the only way either of them could make it through a conversation was by talking about routine things, by pretending, which had become their habit ever since.
Yes, Alex always told her, he was getting along with his sister. Yes, he was sleeping well. Yes, everything was getting back to normal in the trailer park. Yes, his knee was healing just fine.
“See you soon,” he said, and then he handed the phone to his sister.
Only once they hung up and returned to the emptiness of the trailer did the uncertainty and fear begin to creep back in. On TV a few days earlier, Alex had heard Trump promise a “major increase” in immigration enforcement, and just a few days earlier 143 undocumented workers had been detained at a meat processing plant across the state in Salem. Alex had barely seen any of his friends since the raid, but their text messages told the story of families unraveling. One friend had fled with his father to Tennessee after his mother was detained in the raid. Another had moved in with relatives across the state. Two more were still living in the trailer park under the care of undocumented relatives, trying to avoid being seen.
Alex and his family had gotten advice from a volunteer lawyer, who told them it was still possible Nora could receive a bond and be returned home with an ankle monitoring bracelet, but so far she hadn’t even been given a court date.
“She’s going to get deported, right?” Alex asked his sister now.
“Maybe,” she said.
“Will we stay here?”
“I don’t know,” she said.
“Will we move back to Mexico?”
“I don’t know,” she said again, “but it’s going to be okay. We’ll find a way to stay together.”
He turned away and looked at the TV. Nothing about his 12 years in the United States suggested that was likely, and if he was going to be living without his parents, he didn’t want to be treated like a child.
“You don’t have to say that,” he told her. “I know it’s probably not true.”
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That's terrible. Thank goodness we have someone who is willing to try and tackle this problem for a change. It's not going to be an instantaneous solution, but it isn't pushing the problem down the road like all the other Presidents have done. If you are here legally, then you have nothing to worry about. I still think it is terrible these children have to go through this, but had the problem of illegal immigration been solved the day before their parents arrived in this country, this would not have happened.
Deportations: Missing parents, scared kids
~Link~
Yes, you're right. The racist, bigot, misogynist in Chief is trying really hard to fulfill the ultimate dream of the old white dude - get rid of all the scary brown and black people and put women back in their subservient place.
Right......you're black. Next
Lol well that's easy, just advertise the place in papers and online. There's always lots of people that want somewhere to stay
Sorry I know it was just a typo but I couldn't resist.
Seems that Obama was a "racist, bigot, misogynist in Chief", too, because Nora was picked up for deportation in 2013, too. Lucky Nora escaped deportation for another 5-1/2 years so now, according to another article I read, her adult daughter can be Alex's legal guardian. Also note that after at least 13 years in the USA, Nora still needed an interpreter!
Here's the crux of the whole issue. You're upset because she's speaking her native language and you think she should have learned to speak english by now.
Do you speak a second language? I've taken two languages (french and ASL). I found both were challenging for me for different reasons. I probably should go back to re-learn french but I'm stretched too thin with work and other responsibilities.
Maybe she's stretched too thin also. Working a low wage job raising children as a single parent.
I think the difference is the woman in question has been LIVING IN THIS COUNTRY for years, but has yet to learn English, whereas you took a couple of course to learn a language, but did not move to a country that spoke those languages. I know alot of Tagalog, but I don't live in the Philippines, therefore there is no reason to learn a second language.
Bottom line...she should have learned English
Does your wife speak another language?
She does...English...fluently. English is taught in schools in the Philippines at a young age. Filipinos learned long ago that English is the language to learn to get ahead in this world, not Spanish like most schools here push on us and our kids.
Well good for her! I mean that sincerely. Her country understood the possibilities of her future and educated her. That's a pretty smart philosophy, investing in your children and teaching them more than one language so they can succeed in the global world.
Hmmmm.........sounds like they are far more advanced in their education than America is. Gee - we don't seem to be the best in this area, huh.
You made a good choice picking a non American for a wife. Guess we're not doing very well in that department either here in America.
I wonder where else we're falling short......
Why would you think that I'd be "upset" over someone who, in 13+ years, was too lazy to learn the language of the country she illegally entered? The truth is that I feel sorry for people like her, because they don't seem to value education.
I was fluent in English (of course) and Portuguese by age 6. I also speak Spanish, French, and Armenian.
Nora and her (deported and remarried in Mexico) "husband" chose to illegally enter the USA and then have children here so they'd be US citizens. Their two children's education was funded by US citizens and legal immigrants. The least Nora could have done was learn English so she could help her children with their homework, don't you think? I also wonder how she expected to communicate with their teachers for so many years ... interpreters?
Here's the REAL crux, PJ. My grandparents and mother were legal immigrants who learned English in less than 3 years, had green cards within 5 years, and were eager and proud assimilate and become naturalized US citizens. They took all of their tests (oral and written) IN ENGLISH.
Illegals from all over the world game the US immigration system and bleeding hearts fall for it. The newly elected president of Mexico recently said that it's the right of everyone in the world to relocate to the USA. Let that sink in.
It's good to hear that you can still speak your family's native language and more. There are so many in this country that refuse to see the value in any other language besides english.
It's so weird how those who immigrated a long time ago are sometimes the most critical of new immigration......especially south of the border.
What is weird about people who followed the rules and the laws of their adopted country resenting and being critical of those that choose to bypass the rules and enter the country illegally then demand special privledge and treatment? Those older immigrants came here learned the predominant language of the country, adopted the ways of this culture and assimilated to the US way of life.
You might want to learn facts instead of making bogus claims, PJ.
In my line of work I'm exposed to very diverse populations and sub-populations. I know exactly what I'm talking about.
Oh, I see. Good for you.
In comment 1.1.14 , you said ...
It seems that you mainly focus on "south of the border" while speaking of those who emigrated "a long time ago". In neither case do you distinguish ILLEGAL vs. LEGAL and you don't specify what "a long time ago" means to you.
Since you say you know so much about "diverse populations" due to your work and those from "a long time ago", I'd like to know about your interactions with post-WW1 and post-WW2 LEGAL immigrants from Germany and what you learned from their experiences. Please be careful how you answer, because I worked with dozens of them and know their stories.
hahahaha - I was asking you when your parents immigrated because the immigration process has not always been enforced as it is today. Please don't try and put words in my mouth. You are conflacting my comments. Nice try though.
Are you seriously trying to say that only you and your parents response to the current immigration situation is the only response worth acknowledging? Pretty full of yourself.
You never asked me when my parents "immigrated" (the correct word for leaving one's home country for another is emigrate, btw).
Again, your comments show confusion. I have never mentioned my father, because he was born in the USA. One more thing ... I did not mention EITHER of my parents regarding the current illegal immigration issue, because BOTH of them have been dead for several years.
What was that you said about conflating comments?
Oops - Thank you for the correction. I thought I did ask you about your parents but maybe that was before I edited my comment.
Bottom line, you and I see how this administration is currently treating immigrant families differently. I'm not okay with treating people like animals. I keep thinking about what I would do for my children to give them a better life and I understand why some would come here illegally. I also think they need to be held accountable for coming here illegally. But not how they are being treated. It's callous and mean. We can accomplish the objective without treating them like dogs.
Hyperbole much?
It sounds like you can’t bear to look in the mirror. I suggest you move along if you can’t face the reality of your choice.
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You assume I voted for him. I believe you also skirted the COC to personally attack me as Liberals often do when they can't win a debate. IMO we were better off with the Bozo the didn't know what Aleppo was than either criminal. He is just growing on me because of successful policies resulting in record low unemployment GDP growth. Lowest unemployment for minorities EVER (brought to you by the "racist" president BTW, Funny in contrast how little BO did for minorities isn't it?)
Oh, and i love how he makes the left's heads explode without even trying. You can't argue with results! Unless perhaps you are a self proclaimed liberal. BTW, If you are trashing someone that is doing good for the country just because you don't like them what does that make you?
You are gullible. There will be a reckoning one day.
I don’t assume anything. I can read your comments and see how you defend this man to know where your heart is. Maybe if you held him accountable for some things but you don’t. just like him, you blame everyone but the person responsible
One thing we agree on, Obama did very little for minorities and in some instances he hurt their cause.
I’ll wait to see how our economy reacts to his tariff wars and his isolation of our country.
Not true. There are many things i dislike about him. I blasted him for appointing Jeff Sessions who I still dislike. He continues BO's stupid policy of Miranda rights to terrorists. I think some of his decisions have made the situation in Syria worse. His response to Charlottsville was inexcusable. I think he should have renegotiated TTP instead of pulling out of it. However pulling out of it is better than staying in it. He failed to repeal Obamacare. He should have never endorsed Roy Moore.
That being said. Overall he is doing a good job for the most part and the economy numbers are proof.
I will wait to see how the trade war shakes out as well, although I am not too worried about differences with a country that dumps their junk on us and that we are literally feeding. We buy their junk and they buy our food. I think we can hold out longer.
Of course I would rather see no tariffs and this sort of thing on EITHER side, The fact of the matter is that the scales have been tilted way out of our favor for a very long time and he is trying to right some of that. You can't continue unfair trade and do nothing about it if you want the country to survive.
Since you couldn't responsibly debate the points I made in comment 1.1.24 , you immaturely resorted to trying to demean me? How silly of you, because I stated facts that are located on US government websites.
Yes there will, and it doesn't bode well for criminal illegal aliens.
I'm not permitted to respond for fear I'll hurt your feelings. The site owner has been clear that trump supporters are not to be challenged.
Spirited discussion is no longer welcomed on this site.
Come on congress! Get a real immigration law passed. Quit trying to rev up your parties bases and solve the problem. The current members of congress should be kicked out.
There is no immigration fix as long as democrats are undermining the law with sanctuary cities and advocating that we abolish ICE.
That's one reason to fix the law. Like you I don't have much hope.
We can’t fix it until both sides are willing to negotiate in good faith. Right now, democrats are so insane on this issue that I think the Democratic Party should register as a foreign agent for Mexico.
True. Many on the Left, especially the far Left, won't acknowledge that ICE does a hellova lot more than just deportation and "border security".
They have gone beyond reason and essentially want an open border. The only thing that can be done now is to ensure that they stay out of power.
I'm sure you've noticed that even though they were offered twice the number for DACA, they refused it. Why? Amnesty for all, and open borders. Their most recent battle cry is "Abolish ICE", even though they don't know all of the safeties ICE provides.
Nothing unites a group of freedom-loving US citizens and legal immigrants more than the threats of socialism, anarchy, physical harm and the destruction of our US Constitution. For years, the radical Left has proven that its goal is to destroy America.
I will never get over what trump followers have done to the country by voting in this man. There is no "good" trump follower, imo.
I cannot understand how anyone with any good in them could support a man who grabs pussies and sexually assaults women, who cheats those who worked for him out of money, who has used his charity as a front to pay himself, who makes fun of the less fortunate and the handicapped, who lies regularly every day, and who is a racist.
I could go on but why bother.
Simple. The alternative was a lying conniving incompetent scoundrel, with a 40-year history of scandals, who operated a pay-to-play scheme as Secretary of State as well as a private charity slush fund. Her idea of a fair race against Bernie was to secretly rig the primary against him. She also ran for President while under an FBI investigation for allegedly violating the espionage act, a charge triggered by having a secret server set up for no apparent purpose other than to avoid the Freedom of Informantion act and congressional inquiries. But rather than admit that she brought the FBI investigation on herself, she had the gall to blame the FBI because the investigation was negatively impacting her campaign. As for allegations of grabbing pussies, somebody other than Bill must have grabbed hers because people have been saying that, according to Bill, Chelsea’s father is actually Hillary’s law partner, Webb Hubble. And all of this is in addition to being the head of an insane party that advocates open borders, gender confusion, sanctuary cities, etc.
So I guess they voted for Trump because they couldn’t hold their nose tight enough to vote for his opponent . . . what was her name again?
There were other's running. I didn't have to hold my nose nor did I vote for HC. And I sure as hell didn't sell my soul and vote for that POS scumbag in the WH now.
Anyone who supports this man is NOT a good person and doesn't deserve respect. All of your excuses are just that, excuses. You're trying to justify and there is no justification. Shame, shame, shame. History will not treat Trump or his supporters well. What I listed is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to how low and scummy this man is. He's shitting his stink all over his supporters and their lapping it up like frosting.
And the democrats haven't learned anything. They're still as stupid as ever. All they needed to do was "nothing" and they couldn't even do that right.
I didn’t vote them either. You obviously think one POS scumbag is better than the other and, apparently, so did those who voted for Trump.
If I say it feels like it’s 100 degrees outside, I’m making an observation not an excuse. You’re free to ignore me and go outside in a ski jacket if you like but that won’t change the weather. The left is batshit crazy. I don’t think acting more looney (like advocating abolishing ICE) will make Trump supporters regret their decision. In fact, I think it will convince them to re-elect him.
True. Imbeciles like Maxine Waters are hard at work riling up the Trump base to get as many of them to the polls as possible in November. lol
Puh lease- you are a huge trump advocate. Don't pretend otherwise. This is your guy. I've seen too many of your posts praising him. [deleted]
It's seriously horrifying.
You’re confused. I’ve never supported Trump. Instead, I look at individual policies and give an my opinion on them one way or the other.
. . . Oh, even though I think Trump is a dope, I do get a good laugh out of watching liberal loons tear their hair out at the mention of his name. But I’d think the same thing about Bozo the Clown hitting them in the face with a pie. It’s not that I “support” Bozo. I just like watching the pie splatter over their faces. Whether liberals get hit with pies or snatch themselves bald, it’s all good. Lol.
At the expense of our country and our allies? Well.... I'm glad you're enjoying the show.
Ok, I'm calling it a night. I'm heading to the beach in the morning. Happy 4th
Have a good time at the beach.
WOW! Over generalizing and skirting the COS in one statement! You mean all 60 some million of us?
So they were bad people, huh. Maybe you should think about what you just said.
Did I stutter? That’s my opinion based on the character of this President no self respecting person could support this man. If you self identify that’s on you not me.
Yes, I don’t need to think about my comment. That’s how I feel. Anyone who has a good moral compass would never support this president. Only those who are a reflection of him could disregard so easily his vile and corrupt activities.
Trump is a lying, womanizing blowhard, who is flushing the country down the toilet.
Anyone who supports that is... NOT a good person...and... does not deserve respect.
If you appreciate lying, womanizing blowhards, then he's the guy for you! You support him and all he stands for, or you don't.
I support him on some issues like calling out the lying leftist media, SCOTUS picks and tax cuts but not the tariffs and spending increases. It doesn't have to be all or nothing.
The problem Dean, is that he is doing all of what he is doing, not just the stuff you like. And he's the President, not just some guy who doesn't count for anything.
So you must come to an overall conclusion about him, including the stuff that you'd probably rather not think about.
"For" or "against", Dean?
They still can’t understand why they won’t get a single person to reconsider supporting Trump by calling them “bad people.” That’s especially true while they, themselves, are engaged in a pogrom to suppress other people’s free speech, glorify mental disorders, overrun the country with illegal aliens, abolish ICE, and stalk/harass people for disagreeing with them. Yet they expect to get something other than a chuckle when they call the other guy “bad.”
That's the fact, and the sad part is THAT'S THE WAY THEY WANT IT! For them it's "good politics".
Yes it is all. You don’t get to disregard his vile actions and cherry pick because he’s making you more money. It’s corrupt money and you need to acknowledge it for what it is. Your position is a complete cop out and cowardly. Just say you don’t care about his character. Be man enough to say you accept him grabbing pussies,going into dressing rooms of pageant contestants when they aren’t dressed, not paying the workers what he promised he would pay them, siding with Russia over America. None of that matters to you as long as you get your money.
I’m not a Trump fan but I wouldn’t jump to snatch the reigns out of his hands and give them to these idiots.
So what are we supposed to do about it? These are aliens who chose to enter the country illegally even though they knew they would be deported if discovered. She is here illegally and she knew full well that she could be deported whether she’s a murderer, a member of MS-13, a rapist, a hooker or just a seamstress. She made the decision to sneak across the border and she should bear the consequences for herself and her family, not me (or us).
One way to keep their families together is to take their children with them when they leave the same way they brought them here when they snuck across the border. I would support a joint relief effort with their home country to minimize the hardship of displacing people who’ve put down roots but they can’t just sneak in here and act like they have right to stay. In fact, they have a lot of nerve being anything other than thankful that they got away with it for as long as they did.
Did you read the article? Clearly not. The daughter TRIED to go with her mother and the domestic terrorist group ICE wouldn't let her.
Did ICE let her go with her mother?
Monstermash answered the question. Seriously, you know children can’t be arrested on request so they can ride with a criminal parent to jail. And if they had arrested the daughter just because she asked for it, you’d be bitching about that. Criminals are supposed to live in fear of arrest because if there were no fear of consequences, then more people will commit crimes. That’s the whole point of law enforcement. If her mother is actually deported, nobody will stand in the children’s way of leaving the country to be with their mother.
[delete]
So, what I said was TRUE. The domestic terrorist group ICE wouldn't let her go with her mother and your solution that the kids should go with their parents was actually the big fail.
Do you know why your solution was a big fat fail......because this Administration has NO PLAN.
I’m no more callous and hateful in thinking that the law should be enforced than you are insane for thinking that ICE is a terrorist organization for enforcing it. But I know you’re not nearly as insane as you pretend to be here. You’re just feisty and a bit contrary. lol
True
Okay, I'm done playing right now. I'm going to take a walk.
Dude - you don't know me very well. I'm not intimidated by Trump cult followers. I just like to see how far you guys will go to protect Trump, America's racist leader. It's kinda funny and sad at the same time.
I’d walk with you because I know you’re a whole lot of fun . . . for those of us who can duck fast enough to avoid a punch.
This may come back on you or a loved one ten fold.
Do you know how much money trump is wasting on his vile racist policy. We’re paying for tents, clothing, teachers/babysitters, mental health professionals, health care professionals, food, toys. Now let’s look at the legal aspect. Lawyers, judges, monitors, caseworkers......
they could have been sent back and that be the end of it but he wanted to HURT them.
Then keep them together. The children are being hauled into court as young as 3 under this President and his followers. These children don’t know what the fuck they are doing there much less how to articulate their thoughts. It’s bullshit and any sane person knows that.
I’m tired of the pathetic excuses and hiding behind a POLICY as though it’s the law.
I can’t have a discussion with someone who regurgitates false talking points.
I would respond but I'm not permitted to post any comments to trump followers anymore unless it's pro trump. The owner of the site and her mod minions keep citing me coc violations. The site no longer allows free speech and is now a right wing safe haven. Enjoy your safe space and your protection.
It never did from my perspective, but I haven't been here very long. Hang in there PJ, the new rules went much too far and there will be a pushback at the next meta voting.
So now you want them thrown in jail with their criminal parents?
I'm not sure what I'm permitted to say on this site anymore. I'm going to pass since my opinion isn't allowed unless it's pro right and pro trump. This site has become totalling confusing.
It does seem like the right wingers are given more leeway to make derisive sweeping generalities about liberals.
Whether the moderators here realize it or not, there is a conflict going on in this country and some harsh truths are going to have to be expressed. It would be nice if we were just allowed to express them and not have to undergo this pretense that we can all just get along. That is not going to happen until trump is gone.
Look, I'm fine if this site is looking to be another pro trump platform. They just need to be honest about it.
Not by a long shot. NT is not here to promote any political party. NT is a discussion/debate site, the is open to discussions and debates from both sides. If you want verification of that you can contact Perrie and she will be happy to lay it on the line for you. She is by no means being dishonest about anything. And with all that she does to try and provide a fair site for discussion of all political sides, I think your accusation that NT is not being honestly presented is really unfair to Perrie.
My own opinion.
I think Perrie tries to be fair too, but is treating Trump as if he's in any way acceptable as a president, fair? A very remarkable time in history is unfolding before our eyes. It isn't right vs. left any more, it's right vs. wrong, sanity vs. insanity. The opinions of any people who still support Trump, after he has proven to be as bad as anyone expected, are worthless, and it should be perfectly acceptable to treat them that way.
My own opinion.
Can you show us where Perrie is being unfair to Trump as you say? Can you post a comment of hers that states that Trump is unacceptable as a President?
I'm not here to speak for Perrie as she is very capable of speaking for herself. But, I have been a member of this site for many years and know Perrie very well, and what she is being accused of is presenting on her site are merely opinions, not facts. That some prefer to deal with opinions and not facts is up to them, but, it does not negate the facts.
No, that's definitely NOT what I say. I'm saying the opposite of that, that she's too fair to Trump and his supporters. These lunatics deserve no protection.
No one is 'protecting' anyone here. As long as Members adhere to the NT ToS and CoC they are free to speak their minds here on this site the same as you, me or any other Member of NT.
Heck I get accused of being protected by Perrie and the Mods here on NT by some here, and that is certainly not true, as I have had various violations and suspension myself. So how is that 'protection'?
We are talking past each other. I'm not saying anyone is getting special protections either, What I am saying is that Trump and his supporters do not deserve to have their opinions taken seriously. Read the last sentence of my original post to you. You are so eager to defend Perrie and the site, you are keying in on certain words without responding to the gist of what I'm saying. I'm not attacking Perrie and the site like you think I am.
So I really shouldn't respond to this, since it's meta, but I will make one brief comment. NT was set up to be a discussion site so that the full political spectrum can talk and exchange ideas. It does not endorse a particular POV or party. It is non partisan. There are a world of echo chambers out there, and I would hope that the members here are here because they don't want that.
Special note to PJ, it is never perspectives that get people in trouble on NT, but the manner in which it is expressed.
I didn't think you were attacking Perrie, but, misunderstanding what the this site is all about and how it works. But, I will let Perrie explain it herself in the way she prefers to present it.
There's a pragmatic reason for giving in to the vandals: otherwise, they'll wreck the site.
Well said.
This is indeed the heart of the problem.
In trying "to be fair", Perrie always considers that "both-sides-do-it". She refuses to see false equivalences. By whatever metric one may choose, the discourse on NT today is not symmetric... but Perrie will not see that.
She's the owner. She makes the calls. If we don't like her rules, we can move on. And having tested quite a few other forums, I can testify that NT is one of the least bad.
Excuse my butting in...
This is a problem. Another way of expressing it is: "What you are allowed to say is a matter of how close you can come to a violation without going over the line." ... and the answer is a judgment call by a Mod... There are experts in skirting without being called for it... and some of them are Mods.
Actual behavior is not controlled on NT. A member can troll and vandalize, over and over and over... without consequence. This is asymmetric, too... because you only see trolling/vandalizing from a particular segment of NT members. The rest of us find the practice deplorable, so we would not stoop to that level in reaction.
But let me insist: However critical I may be of some of Perrie's rules... she has done the best job of running a forum among the many I have tested.
Ditto!
I appreciate your opinion but respectfully disagree Raven. When members are prohibited from giving their opinion and their opinions are censored and deleted then this is not a site that welcomes open and fair discussion. That doesn't mean the owner is a bad person. It's her site. I've always acknowledged that fact and respect it and will try and comply with the rules. I'm just trying to figure them out because they are applied subjectively and based on interpretation.....
.
I always acknowledge that "it's her site so she's always right". That's one reason I never flag comments and I don't bother PMing her. I pretty much know it's a pointless exercise. Anyhow, I agree, it's applied subjectively and there's nothing to be done about it. Imo, this is a pro right site. (My last comment may get deleted or censored- lol)
Sure, it's non partisan here, which means every opinion is respected. The problem is that one side has lost their ever-lovin' minds as any person with a scrap of intelligence and integrity can easily see this. I don't mind one bit allowing the Trumpists to spew their insane, treasonous views and lies, I just want the right to say exactly what I think of those views AND exactly what I think of those who espouse them.
History will not be kind to those who equivocate and normalize Trump. Too bad this site will be on the wrong side of that history.
Look around.........
No. That isn't true. Perrie is obstinately in the middle of the road. When the right-hand side of the road is re-drawn, much further to the right... Perrie moves with it in order to stay strictly in the middle.
After a while, of course, she's way right of where the right was when the Tea Party madness took over the Republican party... but...
... she's still in the middle, not taking sides...
My feelings exactly. In a way, these 'centrists' piss me off even more than the right wing dingbats. The dingbats are hate filled morons who will never change, they are what they are. These 'centrists' like to think they are smart, informed, thinking people, and that their 'centrist' position proves this. What it proves these days is that they don't understand the first thing about the politics of their own country. Obama and the Clintons are nothing but average conservatives, they govern exactly like normal, responsible conservatives used to. Obama is slightly right of Nixon. A 'centrist' position these days is in between conservatism and fascism.
We now have the income disparity of the most backward banana republics on earth; time for the 'centrists' to wake the fuck up.
Excellent!!
... kinda overdone to the point of being untrue... but very funny!!
She's the owner and the RA she can't stay out of it. Perhaps you should take your own advice and stay out of it especially since you can't seem to undertand roles and responsibilities of the RA and Mods.
Please don't make me be mean to you. I don't want to do that to you.
I'm not threatening you. Jesus Christ. Go away
Don't cry. Just flag it and you'll get your way. No one blamed the other member. She made a ridiculous point about the RA shouldn't get involved which makes absolutely no sense. Try reading the whole thread before you stick your nose in it.
No shame. No shame. None.
They're doing the right thing.
No shame. None.
You are confusing shame with sympathy. There is no shame in enforcing laws that keep citizens safe.
No.
Bob damn near EVERY country has similar laws but only the USA is the villain because people still actually want to get in here?? And we should let everyone in regardless of status and if we can support the influx or not? Give me a frigging break. Go build your constituent base on someone else's dime.
If we tried to enforce the same laws Mexico does on immigration you would REALLY be losing your flipping mind.
As if that's not the end game. LMAO!
I hope the left keeps on demonizing the men and women who protect this country and keep us safe. There really will be a red wave and the Dems will be a coastal, regional party with a few inner enclaves. Where were all the sob stories from the left about victims of illegal aliens and gang members? Where are all the wealthy liberals with multiple homes to house the kids? Zuckerberg built a huge mansion for himself and had all the neighboring ones knocked down so he could build multiple layers of security. Another do as I say, not as I do liberal attitude.
Thanks for vomiting up this week's Trump approved talking points.
I notice you didn't bother to actually refute anything I wrote.
"bother" being the appropriate word.....
Dude - I believe in border control AND reforming our Visa programs. I've always supported updating our immigration policy and laws. With that said, I also know Mr. Trump and so many republicans are liars and just plain evil and self-serving that I don't trust anything they say or do. Most of his cult followers can't be counted on to hold this guy accountable for ANYTHING. I don't see them as human. "So many" are monsters.
So why respond to comments that have no purpose other then to spread falsehoods of this Administration.. Blind devotion- sad to witness.
If you hate this country and its people that much....well, I hear that Switzerland is a nice place to live. Just be sure that you comply with their immigration laws or they'll slap your ass in jail.
Switzerland is beautiful and diverse. I've been many times AND they have great hiking. I am looking to leave this country but can't find an assignment over seas. It seems they've all been snatched up and there's a waiting list.
For those like me who travel often around the world we know America is not number one in the world in many areas and we haven't been for a very long time. What we DID have was our compassion and our beacon of HOPE. Not anymore. Feel free to flag my comment if it's made you cry. A protector will arrive soon.
Who says I don't like my was slapped.
Fortunately, They will learn the hard way this is a losing proposition.
Okay - I really have to go for a bit. I hate to lock the article when I know so many of you are itching to put me in my place but hold that thought and have at it when I unlock the article.
After reading so many of your comments I know your Master is proud of you.
How can this be? Or is the left trying to claim that Trump was in charge during each and every one of the previous detentions/deportations? Funny how this is only an issue now that Trump is in charge.
If you want immigration fixed get a hold of your congress critter and keep applying pressure for them to fix immigration laws. That is the only way this will get resolved. Protesting Trump and ICE will do nothing. Trump is enforcing the law as written (gasp). ICE is doing their jobs (better than in previous administrations). Of course with Schumer and Pelosi around I am sure nothing will get done except bitching about the laws being enforced for a change.
For eight years, the right considered Obama to be personally responsible for every act of every single government employee. Why do you not apply the same method with Trump?
Read it again. Why is Trump being held to a different standard than Obama, Bush, and Clinton? Those "vile" deportations and detentions were occurring under their watches as well. Unless you are trying to claim that Trump is responsible for the actions of the past 3 administrations that had to operate under the same laws. If that is the case Trump derangement syndrome knows no bounds.
Seems that ILLEGAL immigration followed by deportation/family separation has been a chronic issue with this family and started long before Trump became president.
If folks weren't "ILLEGAL" in the first place, there wouldn't be a single problem for anyone. Go figure !
Exactly. So all we need to do is make them all legal. Problem solved.
The FAKE way of saying it's "Solved" !
Or
Not allow them in, unless they do it the "Right" way. Problem REALLY solved.
But I know there are political folks out there that aren't very keen on the "Right" way to do things. They just "want"....like the "Illegals" do.
There’s more than one solution.
Your solution has been done a few times.
Guess what ?
Great Choice/s.......This Country still has the same "ILLEGAL" problem.
Got anything that will actually work in your mind ?
I have proposed nothing. I Replied to your statement that all the problems are due to their being illegal.
Ummmmm
….Actually.....YOU DID ! 
Comment 9.1 = "So all we need to do is make them all legal. Problem solved."
So you take everything literally, do you?
Well...
I have this bridge that I can let you have for really, really cheap.....
The missing /s was a dead give-a-way to what YOU really WANT !
I usually credit others with the intelligence to recognize absurdity.
With some individuals, that's a mistake...
Hundreds of thousands of law abiding US citizens are homeless and you want to "make legal" people who can't follow simple laws citizens? Many of which have committed more crime since illegally crossing the border like robbery, rape and murder. That's not a solution to a damn thing.
LMAO!!! They don't care about the needy that are already here. That doesn't grow the constituent base. Silly boy!
If you say it, you had better mean it. Otherwise, all you're doing is showing a runaway mouth.
I give members credit for being intelligent enough to detect purposefully overblown language. Sometimes they prove me wrong.
While this story is sad. The blame lies solely with the parents. Had the crossed the border properly this family wouldn't be in this situation.
That's the fact but for some reason there are people that think Immigrants trying to get into the country don't need to follow laws and will even help BREAK THEM. (sanctuary cities)
Even if they are criminals....All in the name of growing the constituent base!
Locking the thread since it's purpose was hijacked.