Atlanta school removes Pledge of Allegiance from morning ritual
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
Atlanta Neighborhood Charter School on Grant Street announced the change Tuesday in a statement from elementary campus president Lara Zelski.
The decision was made “in an effort to begin our day as a fully inclusive and connected community,” Zelski said. “Over the past couple of years it has become increasingly obvious that more and more of our community were choosing to not stand and/or recite the pledge.”
Students will be given the opportunity to say the pledge at another point during the school day and they will continue to be asked to stand to participate in the school’s Wolf Pack Chant each morning, according to the statement.
“Teachers and the K-5 leadership team will be working with students to create a school pledge that we can say together at morning meeting,” Zelski said.
That pledge, she said, “will focus on students’ civic responsibility to their school family, community, country and our global society.”
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The pledge of the allegiance at school doesn't bother me at all. I actually like the idea of kids being accustomed to group rituals. Everything in life should not be based on individual preference every second of the day.
I guess then that it is ironic that the conservatives who supposedly most value "freedom" will now be upset that this school is using their freedom to stop reciting the pledge.
Good for them. Being forced to pledge allegiance to a country or their flag is fascist.
They should sign John Lennon's Imagine instead.
"Everything in life should not be based on individual preference every second of the day."
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Relate your comments to the topic please.
"The decision was made “in an effort to begin our day as a fully inclusive and connected community,”
Gosh....didn't know that 100% of the community agrees with SHIT like that.
Gotta luv Liberal thinking.
The "Few" seem to ALWAYS be the majority in their warped minds.
“Teachers and the K-5 leadership team will be working with students to create a school pledge that we can say together at morning meeting,”
I Pledge Allegiance to the WORLD of ……………… ?
When I was a kid I didn't much know or care what the pledge even was. We said the words.
We were "required" to but no one paid any attention to the meaning, we were kids we only said the words to stay out of trouble. What good is that ? What did that teach us except to put on a show ? Are we trying to create robots ?
I have NO problem with children not saying the pledge until they are old enough to decide for themselves what and who they want to "pledge their allegiance to". Before that it's mindless propaganda anyway.
Pledging to something one does not understand is not pledging, its conforming.
maybe this will give it more meaning to you .
True words are being spoken.
perhaps as a child Mr Laswell's explanation may have instilled more understanding of why the adults required we recite the pledge, as an adult I know what words mean even when put together. lol
Back then we didn't give a rats ass what it meant and most of us didn't pay it much attention. I'm a child of the 60s we were spoiled and we didn't care.
IMO: Forcing children who do not understand or agree with reciting the pledge is useless anyway. One can surely recite the words and not care about the meaning.
But children will conform so easily.
Most of them anyway.
When I was a kid they actually taught us the meaning and why we said it everyday. Maybe that's part of the problem. Maybe Frank is on to something.
Great, every American student should be taught the meaning and importance of the American constitution, the pledge and the bill of rights.
Eventually they taught us as well. But, we started "reciting" the Pledge of allegiance in my school starting in kidenregargen.
The pledge was broadcast over the school intercom system that was heard throughout the school. As kindergarteners and for some time we were too young to understand what it meant but really had no choice but to participate anyway.
If this was other countries doing this we might call this practice indoctrination.
When a student is old enough to know and understand what he or she is taking a pledge to, offering it to them as a choice is patriotic and American. But, what kind of pledge is it when the person does not even understand what they are pledging. Or to Whom , Or to What ?
It really isn't pledging, its conforming at that point. A pledge is worthless without understanding it.
OR worse yet, meaning it.
Teachers and the K-5 leadership team will be working with students to create a school pledge that we can say together at morning meeting,”
And if the kids refuse to recite this new agreed on pledge?
I would love to see some kid recite the pledge as written , but doing so while taking a knee, it does after all have the words added in the 1950s of under god, doesn't mention which or what god , that is for the individual to decide.
It all reminds me of what Red Skelton said back in the late 60s and what it meant to him as he learned from his headmaster.
The way the headmaster explained it so that even a child could understand each word and its meaning , still holds true , and I doubt , the teachers or the leadership team can improve on what already exists if presented the same way Mr Skelton presented it on his show oh so many years ago.
see 5.1
Absolutely. Wait until the next generation takes over - they might do away with the flag as well - who needs a flag, eh? Wave the Constitution instead. The generation after that just might do away with the Constitution. Hooray!! No need for loyal patriotic citizens.
"Oh say can you see..." is on its way to oblivion within the next generation or two.
This comedy routine that I watched on the Steve Allen show decades ago will no longer be funny.
"So tell us, Jose Jimenez, how do you feel about the USA after the first thing you just did here, gone to see the Superbowl?"
"Oh, I learned that Americans are caring, thoughtful wonderful people."
"Why do you think that?"
"Well, when I sat down to watch the game, everyone in the stadium stood up and sang "Jose can you see"?"
Thank god for drunk dick heads facing the wrong way during the anthem at a football game! Saving Murica right thar!
Thank god for drunk dick heads facing the wrong way during the anthem at a football game! Saving Murica right thar!
As a teacher, I like saying the pledge. No one forces anyone to say it, but for those who want to say it, it is a nice way to start of the day.
I am concerned this is planting an unintended seed.
When will we see employees give a pledge of allegiance to their companies at the start of shift?
I think Japanese companies used to do that.
I was kind of thinking that, but wasn't sure if it was my imagination.
We all grew up saying the Pledge... yet I don't remember any job I held ( other than being a teacher), where I had to say the Pledge.. do you?
I am going to say they are not really the same thing.
The country is larger with subsets of things within it and the pledge speaks at a fairly high level. When in school, I never saw an incident of where a wrongdoing occurred and a teacher, administrator or patrol reprimanded the wrongdoer by saying anything like "you are acting treasonous". The high level concepts were left where they belong.
A school is a small organization which for the most part is attended daily and is a closely controlled environment. If I understood the quote correctly, the administration of that school was intending a pledge to that daily attended organization with buy in from the students.
Maybe it is just me, but the potential is there for some altruistic yet tight fisted guidelines which are repeated and then reinforced everyday.
After all, in this scenario, all the students voluntarily confirm an indoctrination every day with famous buy in.
The mind quickly asks, without seeing it in practice, how is that pledge to which they all gave buy in, going to be applied to the daily lives of the children attending that school?
Will such practices carry forward in life? At times the oddest things do.
The potential is just too Orwellian in my estimation.
With that foundation, which things do and do not carry forward? Personally, I am not willing to make a gamble like that.
If I correctly understood the post Buzz put up, I think he gave us a real life example of a similar situation.
I would prefer to keep a good distance from such a line.
I China, both the Public and Private schools have a flag-raising ceremony at the beginning of every Monday, when they pledge their allegiance to the motherland. EVERYBODY takes part - nobody kneels, nobody doesn't show up. Companies, restaurants, etc. where there are a number of employees have a staff session at the beginning of each work day - but I don't know what is said at them, although I'm sure its a pep talk at least. Here is a photo taken from one of my apartment windows of the staff at a restaurant in the mall attached to my building.
Interesting.
When I had my business I conducted a daily morning meeting too. At the end of each business day we would stop at a certain point in production. Later in the evening and overnight I would assess where all the projects were relative to their prioritization and set up a schedule for the next morning meeting. Then sort out questions/concerns.
But no pledges to the company and no rah, rah, sis boom bah other than maybe giving recognition to someone for a ob well done.
Pledging to a company just seems over the top controlling.
So the US Govt should demand and enforce mandatory obedience like "Communist" China? Kinda thought that difference was what made the US a tad bit more appealing, but hey, I have been wrong before.
Not what Buzz said and I’m relatively sure that isn’t what he was trying to intimate.
But hey, that’s just my opinion. I could be wrong .....
That is how authoritarians like things, all in a group and indoctrinated, exactly what conservatives have been accusing liberals of doing. I believe the psychological term is projection.
I don't know. I do know that I was never a fan of having to do the Wally World cheer.
I don't blame you about the cheer. I can understand meetings to keep things cohesive and sorting issue. The brainwashing stuff? Hmmm? No.
No matter WHAT it will be, people will still find fault with it.
At this point it loos like a non-issue as the school has reversed course somewhat.
In my mind this is a good idea just as an artificial allegiance under a group mentality is a bad idea.
Walmart used to do a pep rally thing at the beginning of each shift. I don't know if they still do it.
School reverses Pledge of Allegiance policy after criticism
Starting next week, we will return to our original format and provide our students with the opportunity to recite the Pledge during the all-school morning meeting."
No one will be required to recite the Pledge of Allegiance.
We never questioned reciting the Pledge of Allegiance when I was a child in school. I was also a Boy Scout and we had the Scout Oath and Scout Law. That was a long time ago, but to this day I can recite them like it was only yesterday You get just about what you put in a person. Today, Patriotism is not in style, Cultural Marxism is though and anyone who expresses love for their their country is considered backward, not too smart and more than likely a bigot and a deplorable human being by those who are obsessed with looking under every crack to find something this country has done at one time another to give them a reason to criticize it.
What are the Scout Oath and Scout Law?
Scout Oath
On my honor I will do my best to do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law; to help other people at all times; to keep myself physically strong, mentally awake, and morally straight.
Scout Law
The Scout Law has 12 points. Each is a goal for every Scout. A Scout tries to live up to the Law every day. It is not always easy to do, but a Scout always tries.
A Scout is:
TRUSTWORTHY. Tell the truth and keep promises. People can depend on you.
LOYAL. Show that you care about your family, friends, Scout leaders, school, and country.
HELPFUL. Volunteer to help others without expecting a reward.
FRIENDLY. Be a friend to everyone, even people who are very different from you.
COURTEOUS. Be polite to everyone and always use good manners.
KIND. Treat others as you want to be treated . Never harm or kill any living thing without good reason.
OBEDIENT. Follow the rules of your family, school, and pack. Obey the laws of your community and country.
CHEERFUL. Look for the bright side of life. Cheerfully do tasks that come your way. Try to help others be happy.
THRIFTY. Work to pay your own way. Try not to be wasteful. Use time, food, supplies, and natural resources wisely.
BRAVE. Face difficult situations even when you feel afraid. Do what you think is right despite what others might be doing or saying.
CLEAN. Keep your body and mind fit . Help keep your home and community clean.
REVERENT. Be reverent toward God. Be faithful in your religious duties. Respect the beliefs of others.
Kind of goes along with trying to be a good person and a good citizen. But back then we didn't have three dozen genders, two dozen languages and students who had no desire to become Americans, but instead now want to maintain their own nationality from wherever the hell they came from or ran away from to escape to the United States of America in order reap the benefits all the other generations before them had worked hard to make available for future generations.
If these people who say they love this country, but can't see anything good about it, while constantly seeing everything bad about it and are obsessed to the point of affecting the overall attitude of the people in this country, especially the children, the future generations will have little respect for the flag or anything else in this country.
I was a Boy Scout, all the way to Eagle, and I have to say that I don't think KIDS should be pressured into any sort of pledge.
There are those who disparage China because it's "Communist", and therefore is not "FREE" like the USA, yet they wonder how China is rising so fast to the top, and why its middle class is growing so quickly. After all, "Freedom's just another word for nothin' left to lose", right?
Perhaps for those who never have had the freedom to be and do whatever they want freedom is just another word, But for us folks who love the freedom to do and be whatever we want it's a core belief that we dont take for granted nor intend to lose.
Yes, freedom to despise your neighbours because of their politics or belief, to turn your country into a maelstrom of chaos, more concerned with who's in the White House than with what your children are doing, where shootings and murder are becoming the norm - okay, I'm happy you're happy with that.
Yes freedom to do all you listed and much much more. It's called taking the good with the bad.
True America is not nirvana but the freedom to be what you desire as a human IMO trumps being safe and told what is acceptable to be.
Thankfully America is not a nation of robots who obey commands at the will of our leaders, we do what we want here and you're correct, I couldn't be happier being here.
In fact there are a couple of things I have always been very glad of, The first, I was born at this time in history, the second that I was born in this country.
America governing by the people for the people may not be nirvana but IMO it's better than being controlled by any dictator who ever walked the planet.
To each their own.
Having lived here for exactly 12 years, and been surrounded by and in the company over the years with probably at least 1000 citizens here, I have NEVER met a person who is unhappy with their government, or their lot in life, and it seems to me they are pretty free to do whatever makes them happy. I have never met a person who has a beef with the government, although I know that among 1.4 billion people some do exist and I have seen some reasons for it, but how different is that from anywhere else? I'm a Canadian and I'm unhappy with Trudeau and his liberal government for what I think are pretty good reasons, but I'll NEVER give up my Canadian passport and citizenship because I'm loyal to my country. The people here I've met are happy, and are achieving the benefits and pleasures that go with their position in life. They are getting rich. They are driving new cars (my brother-in-law drives a new Mercedes and is buying a big home) and living in nice homes. There could be more millionaires here than in America, and there are quite a few billionaires. The government is working hard towards improving the life of the poor. An example I recall from years ago was when the government subsidized by 50% the cost of appliances such as air conditioners, TVs, refrigerators and washing machines for the poor. It's not as bad being here as you think, Steve, or I would return to Canada if it were.
Wonderful Buzz, I didn't figure you were unhappy from what I've gleaned from your posts.
I have never lived in a communist controlled country so I have little idea of what the everyday life is like for the average "citizen" I think from what little I've heard I would likely still prefer the freedoms of this country over the safety and even "tranquility " of a one party communist controlled country. ( Freedom .. Just for one instance full internet, including You Tube)
I'm old and wise enough to know different countries have different advantages and that I dont know them all.
As an American I do appreciate the freedoms we have. I would not be likely to give that up.
I have always believed that ya take the good with the bad and that is part of life.
I also believed without the bad, we wouldnt know what the good is.
Okay, well said.
Thanks, I enjoy learning a little about different lands, cultures, governments and people. Iits a big old world and the variety of life and living is what makes it all worth the struggle of life.
I enjoy a good sized scope of interest on a variety of subjects, interests and ideologies but am not one to do extensive in death investigation and a great deal of research unless it is something that really catches my interest. (including learning about other lands so my knowledge of living abroad is very limited)
But like I said, I have always been glad I was born where and when I was. (Many people I Know say they would have preferred to be born at either a different time or place.) Not me.
While I am nor have never been "Proud" to be an American (I realised the extent of our problems here at an early age, some of which are hard to be proud of, including how this nation got its American start, genocide) However, I have and hopefully will always be glad that I was born in and live in America.
PS: I've always been a bit of a rebel. Enough it probably would have not been possible or would have gotten me into much problems in the "wrong" country for being what I've been. So, I think I better just stay right here. lol
Thanks again and Have a nice day or night
What a wonderful world it would be if people were actually like Scouts are supposed to be. It's tragic that such goals are disparaged. For so many, some of whom I see here on NT, their goals apparently differ.
Good. A child should never be compelled to pledge allegiance to anything.
The Pledge would be better without the "under God" part
Agreed. It suggests that atheists are not part of the nation or shouldn't be part of the nation.
Ah yes, the old days when we thought there was a Russian hiding behind every rock. We've certainly got over THAT bit of paranoia in a big way; today the President is a Russian agent and it's no big deal!
"Founded in 1963 by Madalyn Murray O’Hair, American Atheists has been fighting to protect the absolute separation of religion from government for over 50 years."
Always Love when groups are founded almost 10 years ..... "AFTER THE FACT".
That's a good thing.
Better late than never. If religion never tried to inject itself into the government, then perhaps such organizations would not have formed to begin with.
Indeed. It wasn't there to begin with.
“in an effort to begin our day as a fully inclusive and connected community,”
Just not inclusive for, you know, actual citizens...