US agents fire tear gas as some migrants try to breach fence 1 hr ago
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
TIJUANA, Mexico (AP) — Hundreds of migrants approaching the U.S. border from Mexico were enveloped with tear gas Sunday after several tried to make it past fencing and wire separating the two countries.
Earlier in the morning, a group of Central Americans staged a peaceful march to appeal for the U.S. to speed up the asylum claims process, but their demonstration devolved as they neared the crossing with the U.S. and some saw an opportunity to breach the border.
U.S. agents shot several rounds of gas, according to an Associated Press reporter on the scene, after migrants attempted to penetrate several points along the border. Migrants sought to squeeze through gaps in wire, climb over fences and peel back metal sheeting to enter.
Children screamed and coughed in the mayhem of the tear gas. Fumes were carried by the wind toward people who were hundreds of feet away, not attempting to enter the U.S.
Yards away on the U.S. side, shoppers streamed in and out of an outlet mall.
Honduran Ana Zuniga, 23, said she saw other migrants open a small hole in concertina wire at a gap on the Mexican side of a levee, at which point U.S. agents fired tear gas at them.
"We ran, but when you run the gas asphyxiates you more," she told the AP while cradling her 3-year-old daughter Valery in her arms.
U.S. Customs and Border Protection helicopters flew overhead, while U.S. agents held vigil on foot beyond the wire fence in California. The Border Patrol office in San Diego said via Twitter that pedestrian crossings have been suspended at the San Ysidro port of entry at both the East and West facilities. All northbound and southbound traffic was halted.
Earlier Sunday, the group of several hundred migrants pushed past a blockade of Mexican police who were standing guard near the international border crossing. They appeared to easily pass through without using violence, and some of the migrants called on each other to remain peaceful.
They carried hand-painted American and Honduran flags while chanting: "We are not criminals! We are international workers!"
Migrants were asked by police to turn back toward Mexico.
Around 5,000 migrants have been camped in and around a sports complex in Tijuana after making their way through Mexico in recent weeks via caravan. Many hope to apply for asylum in the U.S., but agents at the San Ysidro entry point are processing fewer than 100 asylum petitions a day.
Irineo Mujica, who has accompanied the migrants for weeks as part of the aid group Pueblo Sin Fronteras, said the aim of Sunday's march toward the U.S. border was to make the migrants' plight more visible to the governments of Mexico and the U.S.
"We can't have all these people here," Mujica told The Associated Press.
Tijuana Mayor Juan Manuel Gastelum on Friday declared a humanitarian crisis in his border city of 1.6 million, which he says is struggling to accommodate the crush of migrants.
U.S. President Donald Trump took to Twitter Sunday to express his displeasure with the caravans in Mexico.
"Would be very SMART if Mexico would stop the Caravans long before they get to our Southern Border, or if originating countries would not let them form (it is a way they get certain people out of their country and dump in U.S. No longer)," he wrote.
Mexico's Interior Ministry said Sunday the country has sent 11,000 Central Americans back to their countries of origin since Oct. 19. It said that 1,906 of them were members of the recent caravans.
Mexico is on track to send a total of around 100,000 Central Americans back home by the end of this year.
___
Associated Press writer Amy Guthrie contributed to this story from Mexico City.Red Box rules apply.
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We've come to the point now were we teargas women and, children looking for a better life.
No they fired tear gas at invaders attempting to cross the border illegally. The invaders should be glad that the didn't shoot some a bit denser
They were trying to cross LEGALLY and, were prevented from doing so by BORDER AGENTS who were UNDER ORDERS TO CLOSE THE BORDER BY YOUR FEARFUL LEADER.
That statement is all heart.
Rumors Trump negotiated a deal to confine them incited a run for the border...
And, I am not talking about Taco Bell, by the way...
Legally would mean we ALLOW them in.
They were NOT trying to enter legally.
That is ridiculous!
Your definition of legally leaves everything to be desired.
There are 13 US embassies in Mexico that they can legally apply for asylum at. The fact they haven't shows their true intentions.
Nobody thinks US embassies will process their applications under Trump...
Did you want an answer with heart, or the truth?
Doesn't matter what they "think".
The fact is they could have applied LONG before they got to the border, but simply chose not to. Now they have to wait. Not very far-sighted of them, was it?
Not according to this story.
Attempts to penetrate or destroy border fencing are not compatible with concepts of legal entry.
Most were, there were agitators in the crowd that were NOT trying to enter legally, that's where the trouble started.
For the record, I am FOR legal immigration, NOT for illegal immigration.
Embassies DO NOT take applications for asylum. Get educated.
Embassies do take applications for refugee status. It's basically the same thing as asylum; the main difference is where you do it. If you're not in the country, you apply for refugee status. If you are at a point of entry or already in the country, you apply for asylum.
Read your own thread - you've got a problem of comprehension of the FACTS presented.
"some saw an opportunity to breach the border.
U.S. agents shot several rounds of gas, according to an Associated Press reporter on the scene, after migrants attempted to penetrate several points along the border. Migrants sought to squeeze through gaps in wire, climb over fences and peel back metal sheeting to enter."
8 U.S. Code § 1158 - Asylum
Any alien who is physically present in the United States or who arrives in the United States (whether or not at a designated port of arrival and including an alien who is brought to the United States after having been interdicted in international or United States waters), irrespective of such alien’s status, may apply for asylum in accordance with this section or, where applicable, section 1225(b) of this title
Good point Steve - but some many on NT and in the U. S. are unaware that there are nine (9) U. S. Embassies, along with one major U. S. Embassy in Mexico City, that the "alien's" could very easily stopped into and applied for asylum versus dragging their children and themselves 1,823 miles to the U. S. border from Honduras with the WILLFUL INTENT of violating U. S. law and cross the border WITHOUT PERMISSION, becoming Illegal Aliens.
Nice move of the goal posts.
First of all, one needs to be REFERRED for refugee status from an embassy. So it isn't 'basically the same'.
Secondly, each country/region has a cap.
An lastly, do you know how many refugees are accepting from the places like Central America that Trump labeled shithole counties? The TOTAL proposed amount for ALL of 2018 for Latin America and the Caribbean is 1,500, down from 5,000 last year. Over 5,000 sought refugee status from Central America alone this year.
They tried to enter at a port of entry and, were turned back, the border was then closed at that port of entry, to be opened at a later time and, the people were told to go to a stadium to wait, they waited for days with no food or, water, they started a peaceful protest that turned into a run on the border from another area were the wall looked weak, when they crossed the ditch, which was full of shit, and, tried to break through the wall on the other side, that is when U.S. officials fired teargas at them. If you had bothered to read any part of the seed you would know this, if you had bothered to listen to anything beside Right Wing BS, you would know this, the story was on live all day yesterday.
Anyone from another country who CROSSES the U.S. border at a port of entry has the right under U.S. law to ask for asylum, however, when they are prevented from CROSSING into the U.S. by the border patrol at a port of entry, either by those agents closing the border or, telling them to turn around and, go home and, they are desperate enough to try another way, they will try another way because, they know IF they make it across the border they can allow themselves to be arrested and, then claim asylum once they are caught. In other words, they aren't illegal until they cross somewhere other than a port of entry, your Fearful Leader is making them break U.S. law by making it policy to close the border when they get here.
Actually, that would be one embassy and, 12 consulates, the ambassador is in the embassy, I don't think we have 13 ambassador's to Mexico.
Maybe they figured that waiting in the U.S. and, not having to pay a fee BEFORE being granted refugee status in the U.S. was better than waiting in their country which, the U.S. admits is corrupt and, in league with criminal cartels and, violates human rights was better than waiting at home for something that might not happen before their kids were kidnapped by the cartels that control their government or, killed.
You seem to have missed the important part of that statute that was presented by Steve,
They can't be declared "illegal" if they cross the border, ANYWHERE and, then ask for asylum. So, those people who cross the border and, then ask for asylum aren't breaking the law.
Did you ever think that the reason they want to come here is to escape the cartels in their home country and, that having to deal with the cartels in Mexico is the same to them as being in their home country?
Yeah, freedom to work at a job that isn't illegal, immoral or, deadly, freedom to watch their children grow up in peace and, to get a good education.
This is simply a distraction from the seed, even though I agree we should take back that tax cut for the rich that Trump and, the Republicans, implemented last year.
Since last May the US has had no Ambassador to Mexico...
And, there is no ambassador to Honduras either.
Link?
Thread removed at request of the author for off topic. [ph]
"On the bloody morning after
One tin soldier rides away"...
This whole situation is heartbreaking to me. I don't know what the answer is or how to help these people but it seems we should at minimum follow the laws we currently have established.
What we're doing, how we're handling this situation doesn't seem honorable. It doesn't seem American. This doesn't feel American.
Next we'll be handing out bottles of water and food that's been poisoned.
What we are doing is contrary to international conventions we consigned to...
I'm so sad about this. It hurts my heart. How could we have become this way........
I am ashamed.
Such as? I know of no international conventions that call for allowing invaders to cross a countries borders at will and without resistance.
How 'bout showing some links to those so called "conventions" we agreed to.
If you can't - well - what did you expect?
These people are refugees from oppression not some invading army...
They are not invading the US, despite your strawman army.
First, provide a link that proves your point that it is "mostly young males" that isn't from a Right Wing site or, "news" source. Second, you are wrong about us asking for people to come here or have you forgotten about the poem on the Statue of Liberty?
an out of date poem on what has turned into the Trojan Horse is not an excuse to allow the country to be over run
IMO: Not much has lately.
What would you suggest we do different?
What did we do in the past ? I think we used to try to help countries around us not to get to this point.
Kinda late for that now though.
Since there is no way they can scale The Wall we did not need do anything. They were merely standing helplessly in a river of shit at the bottom of The Wall. These were all real live people with children and aged parent and not a hoard of fucking movie zombies. Have we no decency? No compassion? Have we no basic humanity left? This is a black eye for the USA...
The US could certainly be doing a lot more to promote prosperity and justice in Central and South America. Maybe this event will prompt some thoughts in that direction from policy makers, but I won't hold my breath waiting for it.
Nevertheless, we have an immediate crisis in front of us, and we are getting no help from anyone else. There's no way to handle this in a way that's going to please everybody. I feel like people who had opportunity to prevent this kind of thing, but didn't, don't have much right to be overly critical of the people who are trying to deal with it.
Did you read the article?
Or are you deliberately ignoring what the article said?
If I had that answer I'd run for Office.
I'd start with reviewing the current law and identifying the gaps in those laws, e.g. what has changed with immigration since the law was written; how does the country use immigration; how does the country need immigration; what are the benefits; what are the costs. I'd develop a roadmap to implement and address the gaps.
In the meantime, we should follow the current laws.
Ironically the people who had the power to deal with this for the last two years IS the same people now dealing with it.
The story indicates people were trying to push throw the fence and were in the act of destroying parts of it.
Because we don't just throw the gates open wide? It takes time to process this many people. These people could have applied for refugee status without making the trip. Now, they are at the border seeking asylum, but we can't magically, instantly process thousands of asylum applications.
Most of them will not qualify for asylum status and they probably know it. To qualify:
Every person in the caravan I have seen interviewed has said they are fleeing poverty and/or crime. While that definitely sucks, and I wish their lives were better, that is not the basis for a valid asylum claim.
The president has tried to do what little a president can and been sued and demonized every time. He offered a DACA deal to Democrats and they turned him down. Republican congress members, unfortunately, have failed to produce legislation that could both solve these problems and pass both houses. There's probably a lot of blame to go around on that score.
some saw an opportunity to breach the border.
U.S. agents shot several rounds of gas, according to an Associated Press reporter on the scene, after migrants attempted to penetrate several points along the border. Migrants sought to squeeze through gaps in wire, climb over fences and peel back metal sheeting to enter.
Try again reading the thread/article before you try to "correct" people.
Kathleen - watch any video of the event - no children or mothers were tear gassed.
https://defensemaven.io/bluelivesmatter/news/breaking-migrants-breach-wall-throw-rocks-get-gassed-back-to-mexico-videos-RnCuAZYykk6HdLIKI6KBqQ/?fbclid=IwAR32VIQVFzny27J6q-YdPdHUJ5Wp68UhmZnxWwQhl7NHXKijia1fZtZ06lQ
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/san-ysidro-illegal-immigrants-storm-13644752?fbclid=IwAR3qGQ_yVvklR1-_984Pt4xX0z3OYIGPdH6GXj5Pkwkn-ZaXjibG40OvvwI
Those are not the images shown live on TV today of gassed crying kids...
The right has been putting out fake images they claim to be of caravans.
We can do what the Obama Administration did make parents with children wear ankle monitors until their case comes to court. Another thing that could be done is to hire more immigration judges.
It is a reason it the crime is coming from a corrupt government like there is in Honduras.
Link? I've asked you for a link several times now on here, either provide the links or, I'll start flagging your comments as trolling.
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That's the truth. The country has had an immigration problem for a long time and I doubt it will be fixed any time soon.
You would think he understood but then you would be sadly mistaken...
Immigrants have always contributed to all of ours prosperity.
Immigration is only a perceived problem. It is really an asset...
Yes, legal immigration is an asset to both the economy and our well being as a country. Illegal immigration is not. Learn the difference.
And, WHEN an immigrant enters the country and, asks for asylum, NO MATTER WERE AT THE BORDER THEY CROSS ACCORDING TO THE LAW, they are entering LEGALLY, ACCORDING TO THE LAW and, then we can process them and, see if their claim for asylum is valid.
Wally, no it is not. Show me where in this process it says that they can stay in another country while this is being done,
It's a very sad situation, but literally no one else, i.e. Mexico, the international community, the migrants themselves has done anything the right way - the legal way - to help these people. Instead these people have been encouraged to rush the US border and the United States is just supposed to take care of every last one of them.
Meanwhile, all the people who could have done something to improve this situation, but have done nothing are so eager to criticize the American response they are practically frothing at the mouth. They can't wait to pat themselves on the back for caring more than others even though they have done nothing to help these people.
Rumor Trump is negotiating to have them confined in Mexico caused this mess.
If Mexico would help us manage the crowd while we process them, I think that would be a good thing for all.
The law says we cannot start the asylum or sanctuary process unless the individual is physically on our soil. We would have to change the law to modify when and where the US could accept a plea for asylum.
I don't think that's a wise thing to do. That would open the door up for far more abuse.
Wrong!
If so that sounds like a catch 22.
If you come here to seek asylum you have to be here, to be here legally you have to apply to come here.
Kinda like you can't use the microwave to heat unheated food.
You go hungry !
You are badly uninformed. That fact was widely reported except on Fox ..
Yes, for those who do not know the law it may seem as though this Administration is trying to be reasonable and find a compromise or temporary solution but the law is very clear that the individual must be on our soil.
As I said, if we change the law to allow for us to accept requests for asylum from people located in other countries it may open up the flood gates. I'm not sure but it may also be breaking international law. I'll have to look that up.
PJ,
There are other forms of seeking US protection at our Embassies or Consulates which may include statuses other conventional refugee status. A lot of folks can be precluded from those processes.
What we found as a possible path was for the application for Vistors Visa and once here the individuals can apply for asylum which would result in refugee status if the application is approved. The process sounds nice on paper, even if someone is coming from a real war zone, depending on country of origin. Reality can be a shocker.
Otherwise showing up at port of entry and waiting in line for processing is the next alternative.
Prior methods allowed anyone showing up at the border to "butt" in front of others around the globe who have been waiting. I am not sure if this remains the case.
So, can you tell me a little more about this process. I'm not being sarcastic. I'm seriously asking.
What is the timeline for submitting an application and having your request accepted? Does the application process cost money? Does it require certain documentation?
These may be deterrents for most who are coming from poor and dangerous countries.
The first process I mentioned will be the most difficult and as I mentioned above, many will be precluded from this.
SORRY Forgot the link:
The second won't be easy, but a lot easier than the first. Also, with regards to cost, let's keep this in perspective. Stories about paying coyotes exorbitant fees abound. Doing it this way will be a LOT less expensive that paying a coyote, who btw, have horrible reputations for manners, decency illegal and immoral activity.
Timeline and expenses? Really depends on the country and the officials involved.
In our situations a visitors visa was $900usd from a travel agency and still required an interview US or appointed representative officials (read, possibly corrupt) before granted.
In our case, a known place to stay. My place. Places to visit can suffice too.
Back during the peak war time, 2 way tickets from either Kiev or Odessa were $1900 - $2400usd. These days they are in the $900 range for 2 way tickets. I am concerned with the warring ramping back up the fares will escalate again. Julia has to return there periodically for work and other reason. She works for a company out of NYC, but her office is still in Southern Ukraine on the Dnieper.
Notice I said 2 way ticket.
In this scenario, always buy a 2 way ticket even if the intent is to go 1 way. A one way ticket without intent to return home is a show stopper.
As SOON as you arrive, start the process for Visa extension. If possible from country origin apply for a 6 month visa and then again when applying for the extension apply for a 6 month extension.
If it seems like remaining here is a good idea, begin the naturalization process and continue with Visa extensions as long as necessary. Don't be surprised if a visit back home may be necessary from time to time. Not always. But it is a possibility.
The third way is what folks are doing now at the border.
They probably know they apply if they're physically in the country, which is a reason to try to bust through the fence. Makes a person want to question that policy, doesn't it?
They can also apply at a port of entry, but naturally with a few thousand people also trying to apply, they could be waiting a while.
They could have applied for refugee status from their home country and not have to have made this trip. However, if they did that and refugee status was denied, I believe they would be prohibited from applying for asylum at the port of entry or within the country. I'm guessing that's a reason why many of them didn't bother. It's more promising to just get to the US, ask for asylum and then be released into the country and take your chances that ICE won't catch you.
Thanks for the education. Like most laws, I never read them.
I never felt I needed to.
or really wanted to for that matter.
Probably the most laws I ever read were in the drivers licence book. lol
I just figure they are fair, or I'll have the money to buy my way out if I break one.
lol
That was not good enough for them,
The needs and wants of US Citizens should be met or exceeded before any foreigners are let in. We have obligations to our Citizens
Yeah. Like decent healthcare, the best education, clean water, clean air and a renewing of basic American infrastructure for starters.
I'm all for that, we need to take care of and improve our people
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All three of you need to get on topic, this isn't it.
First off, it was the Mexican police that fired the tear gas.
Second. This situation is perfect for the right wing. They need an enemy. And what better enemy than the poor, destitute and afraid?
Third. Amazing that it is now illegal to approach America with a hope of safety and security.
Fourth. Is the Trump still at Mar-a-Lago? And is his 'three friends down there' still running the Veterans Administration?
Fifth. Every day, every second is a crises with the Trump.
I find it Hillaryious that the same people that liked your comment are the same ones saying the USA gassed the poor refugees huddled at the border fence doing nothing.
Do you think they read the comment or article?
Check the title then get back to us. There was plenty to vote up, besides...
Wasn't trump looking for workers not long ago ?
lol
Problem solved !
If given refuge the refugees will nearly all take back breaking menial jobs picking fruit or processing chickens and hogs for at least a generation on the hope their children can live and thrive in freedom. None of the refugees given sanctuary will become citizens for decades if ever...
Then their cheerleaders would complain they are being exploited
They will still increase the problems of overpopulation, we already have more people than we can take care of
While over population is becoming a problem world wide, we have many here who dont do what they could to take care of themselves more that we can't take care of themselves people.
Just like the waste and corruption in our government spending uses up much more of our treasure that it should. Themselves and our military probably top that list.
refugees have always proven themselves to be a net gain for our economy.
If you like cheap fruits, vegetables and meats then thanks to immigrants...
So you want them to be taken advantage of? and won't complain about how they are treated?
While true, I don't think this kind of mass immigration is good for the country. In the past we did what we could long ago to avoid this type of situation. It's going to be interesting to see how trump gets us out of this now that we didn't.
My personal feelings are immaterial. They are desperate enough to ask for refuge knowing that theirs will not be easy lives in the USA. NYC is full of refugees though most flew in on tourist visas with cash to hire immigration lawyers. It is theChinese, Russian and Eastern European immigrants bidding up property in my neighborhood. They did not walk here. In any case, i could sell my 2 BR 1150 SQ FT co-op for enough profit to buy a mansion in Texas thanks to new immigrants but Texas is a shit hole...
that should be stopped too.
We cannot do that without also closing all our borders to tourists...
80 million foreign tourist travel to the US per year. Many skip visas.
Once on US territory any of them may ask for legal refugee status...
If the people in the caravan had cash they could just fly into the US.
those that overstay visas are also a problem and they need to be dealt with, but that is not an excuse for this mob to come to border and want to be let in and be taken care of.
Then post a story about it but, don't use my seed to do so.
They are seeking asylum, they can do that according to the law, they can legally cross the border and, legally ask for asylum when they do. In case you're wondering that means when they do cross the border they aren't doing illegally.
Just because someone shows and camps outside your residence and acts like you have to let them in and take care of them and let them live with you does not mean you have to let them in. Almost everybody would be wanting the government to do what is necessary to remove them
What did we do in the past ? I think we used to try to help countries around us not to get to this point.
Kinda late for that now though.
Ironically the people who had the power to deal with this for the last two years IS the same people now dealing with it now.
How have those countries shown appreciation for what we did in the past?
Did they use what we gave them to improve conditions or was it wasted or stolen?
Why is everything our problem?
At This point I dont know what the solution is. my solution at this time has been called unrealistic...LOL
I said we should have set up a fake border a mile into mexico (if they'd let us) and let the caravan in, feed them and give them a free plane ride home. That way we dont break US laws...
It's going to be interesting to see how trump handles this !
Well, unlike your residence the border is different and, we kind of told folks looking for a better life many decades ago that they could come here and, be accepted. Think of it like putting a welcome mat at your front door with this message,
"many decades ago" things have changed and the country is full now
Sorry, that was tried "many decades ago" too and, they were wrong then just like now.
Fact from the NBC News
“Mexico’s incoming Secretary of the Interior, Sen. Olga Sánchez Cordero, said in a statement Sunday that nearly 500 migrants who tried to enter the United States in a “violent manner” would immediately be deported.“
the first good news from there in a long time
That would be amazing if they follow through.
Maybe Mexico will start protecting their Southern Border, and that is foreign aid that would be worthwhile
Locked until the seeder returns, reviews and gets under control.
Sorry, SP, I set this up and, forgot to lock it till today, I went to bed after setting it up.
It is really annoying when you do that when I an typing a response. There was no insults or cussing and it did not seem out of control so there was no need to lock it
I've got a solution.
Let them in but send them directly to the richest counties in the US to deal with. Places with the most disposable income. Counties like Loudoun Va, Putnam NY, Santa Clara Ca and Howard MD.
Yep, do that and watch how fast this issue gets fixed.
It's easy to sit all nice and cozy hundreds or thousands of miles away from the issue. Much tougher when you see it across the street from where your children are playing ....
Here's a real solution,
Hire more immigration judges to handle the influx.
When the immigrants come into the country, those that are single and, don't have kids detain them until their case can be heard. Those with children and, are a couple, put ankle monitors on them and, then keep an eye on them until their cases can be heard.
Sounds great, lets do that first instead of using the money that would cost to take care of our own in need .....
big NO VACANCY signs need to be put top of the wall
The Barbarians are at the gates. I wonder if some Roman's were as woefully mistaken as our current liberals.
They can't understand that
Locking until a moderator address's all the flags.