Top presidential historian on Trump's legacy: 'He was largely responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Americans who did not need to die'

Michael Beschloss is the presidential historian of record for American Heritage and wrote biographies of every president for the book you see pictured above. 

As I have been saying for five years, historians are not going to treat Trump kindly. 

This coming from a lifelong liberal Democrat. What a surprise!

This coming from a lifelong liberal Democrat. What a surprise!

Sounds pretty qualified to me.

Beschloss has been a frequent commentator on the PBS NewsHour and is the NBC News Presidential Historian. He is a trustee of the White House Historical Association and the National Archives Foundation and he also sits on the board of the Smithsonian's National Museum of American History. He has been a trustee of the Thomas Jefferson Foundation (Monticello), the Urban Institute, the University of Virginia's Miller Center of Public Affairs and the PEN/Faulkner Foundation. He also sits on the advisory board to the Abraham Lincoln Bicentennial Commission and was a member of the President's Commission on White House Fellowships. He has held appointments in history at the Smithsonian Institution, a Senior Associate Member at St. Antony's College (University of Oxford), a Visiting Scholar at the Harvard University Russian Research Center, a Senior Fellow of the Annenberg Foundation, and a Montgomery Fellow and Dorsett Fellow at Dartmouth College.

Why some frown on the educated and informed is beyond me.

Jealousy?

Qualified does not always equate to nonbiased, and this guy strikes me as very biased.

"Donald Trump is not going to change the record. He was largely responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Americans who did not need to die,"

The validity of this assertion can't be explained by those who make it. Can you provide some details, because most normal people don't believe it such foolish statements

Can you provide some details

We have 4% of the global population, yet we have over 20% of the deaths. How's that for data?

We have 4% of the global population, yet we have over 20% of the deaths. How's that for data?

No we don't.   For starters, and most obviously, Imagine publicly admitting to believe Putin and the CCP on Covid.  Why would you do that to yourself? 

Trump trusts Putin quite a bit, over our intel agencies to boot. 

But if you can supply data to the contrary of what I posted, feel free. 

Just to be fair, I did the math....

1.8 million total deaths. 339,000 in the USA, 339,000 is 18.83% of 1.8 million. So just over 1% shy of 20%. 

You are using assumptions in order to skew the math and....sorry, math doesn't work that way. 

re using assumptions in order to skew the math

Let's talk about assumptions. In order for your math to be correct, you assume every single person who died of covid  in every single country was correctly counted.

That means you trust Putin, the CCP and Iran to accurately report the reality of what's going on in their countries. (They don't)

You assume every third world country has the means to record the number of people who died from Covid.  (They don't)  

You assume every country attributes deaths to covid using the same standards. ( They don't) 

No one has any clue right now how many people have died of Covid in the world.  Believing the self reported numbers constitutes an accurate picture of what's actually happened in the world is naïve and simplistic. It over inflates the relative totals for those countries that try to honestly report their numbers and have the means to do so and undercounts  the vast majority of the world that doesn't. 

Don't forget that there are serious questions as to the reliability of the numbers the US is reporting. I saw somewhere yesterday that those numbers could be as much as 40 percent less than what John Hopkins is reporting.

Let's talk about assumptions. In order for your math to be correct, you assume every single person who died of covid  in every single country was correctly counted.

I am not assuming anything, I am using available data. 

We have 4% of the global population, yet we have over 20% of the deaths. How's that for data?

The data doesn't explain causation. 

Furthermore, the assertion that the deaths are attributable to Trump's lack of leadership fails in light of the fact that several other countries have more deaths per capita than the the US does. According to this site , 9 countries have a worse death per capita rate than the US for the year, and 20 countries have a worse death rate over the last week.

There is plenty of pain to go around, and zero value to be gained by arbitrarily blaming one man for a disease that is ravaging the whole world.

Good post. It get's tiresome seeing "factoids" like...

We have 4% of the global population, yet we have over 20% of the deaths. How's that for data?

used to make a point when the factoid is not only meaningless but also seems designed to intentionally hide what is actually relevant. It's designed to get you to focus on the disparity in sizes. It doesn't take into account that, even if we are only 4% of the population, we are still the third largest country population wise.

And as you point out deaths per capita are a better marker. Yet, even that has it's problems. India, with a population of 1.3 billion, reports a death rate of just 105.4 per million. This is an extraordinarily low number for such a population. One could claim that India is obviously handling this better than we are. Thing is, this number is unlikely to be anything close to accurate, due to cultural factors if nothing else. Something close to 80% of Indians die at home. That alone guarantees to skew the numbers badly. And while something like 60% of tests being given are the more reliable PRC tests, many states are using the RAT tests, which apparently known to give false readings about 50% of the time. Funeral homes and crematoriums are also not much good since much of that happens out in the countryside, where such things aren't reported. Further, using the same site you did, which you can find here , while the US comes in second in testing per capita at 677,747 per million, India comes in 21st at 113,004.

So, I guess the point is, you can make statistics say what you want them to say or use them incorrectly unknowingly. Or you can do some digging, some thinking and maybe come to a conclusion that actually comes close to meaning somethin. 

Don't forget that there are serious questions as to the reliability of the numbers the US is reporting. I saw somewhere yesterday that those numbers could be as much as 40 percent less than what John Hopkins is reporting.

My opinion is that we aren't going to know actual numbers until well after this is over and scientists, statisticians and whatever other relevant field needs to be involved has a chance to put all the data together and study it. Could be higher, which may be more likely, or lower. I think time will tell.  

I am not assuming anything, I am using available data. 

The data doesn't support the conclusion you claimed it did. Do you understand that now? 

n g is, this number is unlikely to be anything close to accurate, due to cultural factors if nothing else. Something close to 80% of Indians die at home

Yes, India is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. No one believes the reported numbers of deaths are close to accurate for the reasons you list and for different standards in reporting.  Even in those areas that are reporting covid deaths, some Indian states are not counting  deaths as covid related if they had co-morbidities, which other parts of the world like the US count as Covid caused deaths.  

For those interested in how this plays out in one country, this is a pretty good overview of how systematic undercounting takes place:

science.thewire.in

Once you understand how prevalent these issues are, it makes believing that we "know" the actual global amount of deaths preposterous. 

It doesn't matter how many people died or didnt die, Trump abdicated his responsibility to lead the nation because he thought emphasis on the virus would hurt his re-election chances. 

He has shamed our country and he deserves every bit of criticism he gets and more. 

"I wanted to always play it down,"Trump said on March 19, according to CNN, which obtained an audio recording of the interview, and The Washington Post. "I still like playing it down

and where did "playing it down" get us ?   He admitted to "playing it down " over nine months ago and 300,000 Americans have died since then. 

He made it his fault. 

And I thought I was the devil's advocate on this site.

He said he didn't want the people to panic (seems like he preferred for them to die).

Out of curiosity, when the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbour, did each state, county and city government decide individually on their own what to do, and how and when to do it?

Here, notice anything weird about this graph? 

dangoodspeed

Excellent link

Greg would never acknowledge that Trump supporting states lead the union in Covid Cases..... nor would even admit as to why.

It doesn't support Trump being responsible 

What states are those?

California and New York are blue states.

Here, notice anything weird about this graph? 

Yes, it transparently cherry picks data for partisan purposes. 

Millions of others who suffered from covid did not need to suffer…This is really Nero's fiddling while Rome burns."

No, it won't effect his legacy anymore than Wilson's is blemished by the Spanish Flu or Eisenhower's is by the Asian Flu, or Nixon's by the Hong Flu, all of which killed the equivalent of hundreds of thousands of Americans.

Historians who aren't partisan hacks understand what viruses without a cure will do, and know that American Presidents can't stop a virus anymore than the PM of England or the President of France.  

know that American Presidents can't stop a virus anymore than the PM of England or the President of France.  

THEY CAN CERTAINLY SLOW THE SPREAD, TO REDUCE THE DEAD !

THEY CAN CERTAINLY SLOW THE SPREAD, TO REDUCE THE DEAD !

NO THEY CAN'T

spread TRUTH not trump LIES

NO THEY CAN'T

Si se puede !

When was the last time the USA saw over 330,000 Americans die in one year from a virus, (or even a war for that matter)? 

Never. 

It's a first. 

291,557 - WWII - 6 years. 

58,000+ - Vietnam - 19 years.

53,502 - WWI - 2 years.

340,000 - Covid-19 - 10 months. 

Historians who aren't partisan hacks understand what viruses without a cure will do

VERY few cures for a viral infection. We don't even have a "cure" for the common flu. We do have vaccines though, which are hit and miss. 

BTW: WWII had a pretty big impact on the legacy of President Truman. 

If you don't think that trump's legacy will be the covid deaths, you're mistaken. Suppose we could tack on golfing, lying, fake investigations and his refusal to admit that he lost. 

It's a long list, none of it good. 

When was the last time the USA saw over 330,000 Americans die in one year from a virus, (or even a war for that matter)? 

Never. 

It's a first. 

Of Course it isn't.  675,000 Americans died from the 1918 Spanish  flu. On a per capita basis, that's the equivalent of Two million Americans dying from Covid. in 2020.

As I said, Wilson's legacy isn't blemished by it. You apparently didn't even know it happened. 

RY few cures for a viral infection. We don't even have a "cure" for the common flu. We do have vaccines though, which are hit and miss. 

Yes, exactly. Which is why smart people realize a President isn't responsible for "stopping" a virus that has no cure.  Many humans need certainty and psychologically  require  someone or something to blame because they can't tolerate random or arbitrary events. Blaming the President for a virus is like blaming a witch for a drought.  Same mindset.

TW: WWII had a pretty big impact on the legacy of President Truman. 

Of course it did. Just like World War I has an oversize impact on Wilson's legacy and the virus that killed 675,000 Americans had none. Historians understand what a President can effect, and what he can't.

If you don't think that trump's legacy will be the covid deaths, you're mistaken

I'm sure it will among the ignorant, who don't really understand viruses or the powers of a President and need scape goat  to sooth their simple minds. . Some who know better will do it for partisan reasons. People credit and blame Presidents for all sorts of things they have no control or responsibility over. It's the way of the world. 

In an op-ed for the Washington Post, Beth Cameron, former Senior Director for Global Health Security and Biodefense in the NSC, wrote, “When President Trump took office in 2017, the White House’s National Security Council Directorate for Global Health Security and Biodefense survived the transition intact.

“Its mission was the same as when I was asked to lead the office, established after the Ebola epidemic of 2014: to do everything possible within the vast powers and resources of the U.S. government to prepare for the next disease outbreak and prevent it from becoming an epidemic or pandemic. One year later, I was mystified when the White House dissolved the office, leaving the country less prepared for pandemics like covid-19” ( here ).

reuters

So what?  Unless you are claiming the office had a vaccine to a disease it didn’t know existed, it wouldn’t have had any real life Effect on the virus spread. 

look around.  After nine months the spread is worse than it’s ever been in states like California because governmental intervention has little to no effect. 

Historians who aren't partisan hacks understand what viruses without a cure will do, and know that American Presidents can't stop a virus anymore than the PM of England or the President of France.  

How many previous presidents who were facing a virus held self-serving press conferences every day for months at which they paraded out clowns like the My Pillow Guy whose role was to tell the president how wonderful he was?  There isn't a chance in hell that Trump will be seen favorably by history. You know that. You just would rather argue with the "libs" than admit to the malignant farce Trump has presided over in this country for years. 

vious presidents who were facing a virus held self-serving press conferences every day for months at wh

So what? His blathering had zero effect on the course of the virus. 

here isn't a chance in hell that Trump will be seen favorably by histor

The virus will have zero impact on that 

He was largely responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Americans who did not need to die,"

There is no cause-and-effect connection that can be made to justify this wild claim. It can be argued that the president could have done certain things differently or better. I have held that position myself from the beginning. But I don't see evidence that his actions directly resulted in "hundreds of thousands" of American deaths. Thousands? Possibly. But hundreds of thousands? No way.

We've lost over 300 thousand. By saying "hundreds of thousands" you are attributing at least 200 thousands of those deaths to Trump. That's not rational.

The accusation makes it sound as if there is something unique about Trump. i.e., But for Trump, rates of infection and death would be far lower. Not just a little bit lower, but something like 60% or 70% lower at minimum to get to "hundreds of thousands." There is no data to suggest that is a reasonable assumption.

According to Johns Hopkins, the US Deaths per population , is high, but surpassed by the UK, Spain, and Italy. The Case-Fatality ratio is surpassed by 17 countries , including places like the UK, France, Canada, and Germany. None of those countries are led by Trump.

There are probably a lot of reasons why deaths in America are so high. Some we can reasonably speculate about and some which may be completely unknown. Only blind partisanship can put all of them at the feet of Trump.

There is no cause-and-effect connection that can be made to justify this wild claim.

Masks and social distancing obviously work, which is proven when you compare deaths in blue states and red states, (see the link above). Trump never did endorse mask wearing because he doesn't want to wear one, (said himself he would look, "silly"), so his supporters refused to wear them, which spreads covid around. 

No one could objectively look at Donald Trump over the past year and possibly believe he responded appropriately to the pandemic. 

It can't be done. 

Yet of course his lackeys and sheeplings will do what they can. 

Trump was allegedly our national leader in a time of deep crisis, and he acted like the whole thing was an imposition on him. History will be brutal to this guy. 

True. He spent MONTHS lying about it, (Woodward tapes prove that), golfing and downplaying it. 

Like you said, there is simply NO WAY to justify trumps response, (or lack of), to covid. 

John, you need to find a new schtick. This one is done and over.

This isn't a schtick bugsy..... people have needlessly died because of a lack of leadership starting at your savior Trump.

John, you need to find a new schtick. This one is done and over.

Trump lost, so get over it.  You are the one that needs a new schtick.

asks and social distancing obviously work, which is proven when you compare deaths in blue states and red states,

Oh.. That explains why four of the five states with the most covid deaths yesterday were blue states.  

s Florida a blue state?  NO

Florida was ninth yesterday in daily deaths. And since the beginning of the pandemic is below the national average in deaths per capita. 

people have needlessly died because of a lack of leadership starting at your savior Trump.

No, people needlessly died because of personal choices. I know you think Trump and the government should have held every single person in this country hand, but unfortunately for the left, it doesn't work like that.

Trump lost, so get over it.

Why?

You and millions of other liberals have not yet gotten over Hillary's loss, hence the 4 years of constant whining and TDS.

Yet one of the magats here did a seed on his excellent handling of the pandemic.  Never once has Trump acknowledged the death of thousands or done jack shit regarding preventable measures..  His priority was low flow shower heads and ripping out the renovations by Melania at Mar A Largo.

What does this have to do with your post telling me to get over it. I answered you accordingly and correctly, and you deflect to something someone else posted.

You failed.

In the last two days, we have had a record number of deaths from COVID. Bunker Boy was spent the time whining and lying about losing and playing golf. Not a fricking word about the deaths. In fact, since his loss on November 3rd he has done nothing but whine, lie, file lawsuits and play golf. No leadership at all, it's all about him and always has been. 

Make all the excuses in the world for his lack of performance it's all bullshit.