Trump-Era COVID-19 Guidance Was Outdated, Downplayed Severity: CDC

  

Category:  News & Politics

Via:  tessylo  •  one month ago  •  92 comments

By:   Nina Golgowski, HuffPost

Trump-Era COVID-19 Guidance Was Outdated, Downplayed Severity: CDC

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T



Trump-Era COVID-19 Guidance Was Outdated, Downplayed Severity: CDC


Nina Golgowski Breaking News Reporter, HuffPost Tue, March 16, 2021, 12:42 PM Not all of the coronavirus health guidance released by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention during the Trump administration was based on the best scientific evidence or even primarily authored by the agency’s staff, according to a review ordered by the CDC’s new director.

The review aimed to ensure that the CDC’s current and primary COVID-19 guidance contains the most updated information and is “evidence-based and free of politics,” according to asummary presentedto CDC Director Rochelle Walensky and dated March 10.

“I am focused on moving CDC forward with science, transparency and clarity leading the way,” Walenskysaid in a statementMonday. “It is imperative for the American people to trust CDC. If they don’t, preventable illness and injury can occur — and, tragically, lives can and will be lost.”  

The review concluded that some of the CDC’s guidance was not primarily authored by the federal health agency’s staff, that it offered considerations rather than direct recommendations based on existing evidence, and that some of the information was outdated or lacked evolving scientific understanding.

The review specified three documents that were misleadingly presented as CDC documents on its website.

One of the documents, “The Importance of Reopening of America’s Schools this Fall,” was posted on the CDC’s website in July andquietly removedin October. Its removal followed reports that White House officials hadrelentlessly pressured the CDCto play down the risk of sending children back to school.

“Reopening schools creates opportunity to invest in the education, well-being, and future of one of America’s greatest assets ― our children ― while taking every precaution to protect students, teachers, staff and all their families,”read the article. Its author is not listed.

6050cc07390000aa00eb15be.jpeg CDC Director Rochelle Walensky, who was appointed by President Joe Biden, ordered a review of the agency's coronavirus health guidance that had been released during the Trump administration. (Photo: Chip Somodevilla via Getty Images)

Another document, “Overview of Testing for SARS-COV-2,” was posted in August and replaced in September. A third document, “Opening up America Again,” was released in April through a link posted on the CDC’s site and was removed in February during the CDC’s review.

It had been previously reported that White House officials within the Trump administration had pressured the CDC to alter its COVID-19 information in ways that would reflect well on then-President Donald Trump. There were alsoreported efforts by Trump’s staffto delay or altogether stop the release of CDC reports.

Olivia Troye, who served as an adviser to Vice President Mike Pence for two years before resigning last August, has said she was repeatedly asked by Pence’s chief of staff, Marc Short, to pressure the CDC to produce more reports that showed a decline in COVID-19 cases among young people.

After her resignation, shetold The New York Timesthat she regretted being “complicit” in such efforts.

“You’re impacting people’s lives for whatever political agenda. You’re exchanging votes for lives, and I have a serious problem with that,” she said.

This article originally appeared onHuffPostand has been updated.


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Tessylo
Professor Principal
1  seeder  Tessylo    one month ago

“I am focused on moving CDC forward with science, transparency and clarity leading the way,” Walensky   said in a statement   Monday. “It is imperative for the American people to trust CDC. If they don’t, preventable illness and injury can occur — and, tragically, lives can and will be lost.”  

The review concluded that some of the CDC’s guidance was not primarily authored by the federal health agency’s staff, that it offered considerations rather than direct recommendations based on existing evidence, and that some of the information was outdated or lacked evolving scientific understanding.

The review specified three documents that were misleadingly presented as CDC documents on its website.

One of the documents, “The Importance of Reopening of America’s Schools this Fall,” was posted on the CDC’s website in July and  quietly removed  in October. Its removal followed reports that White House officials had  relentlessly pressured the CDC  to play down the risk of sending children back to school.

“Reopening schools creates opportunity to invest in the education, well-being, and future of one of America’s greatest assets ― our children ― while taking every precaution to protect students, teachers, staff and all their families,”  read the article . Its author is not listed.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2  seeder  Tessylo    one month ago

157436928_10159629749390530_7045129626996065262_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=n03Ybq47V8MAX8kWsAi&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=f4b85ba87afa2e37f41cab72bb259e95&oe=60775431

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
3  Trout Giggles    one month ago

Nothing in this article shocks or surprises me. I kinda knew that the WH was creating the narrative surrounding COVID. They didn't want Fauci saying anything and the administration downplayed everything. When the WH called for all COVID data to be routed through them first, I knew something wasn't right.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
3.1  seeder  Tessylo  replied to  Trout Giggles @3    one month ago

"When the WH called for all COVID data to be routed through them first, I knew something wasn't right."

Exactly Mrs. Giggles.  The WH had to be the ones creating the narrative.  

Couldn't have the truth or pesky facts getting out. 

 
 
 
JBB
PhD Principal
4  JBB    one month ago

Thank God we have competent leadership again...

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Masters Participates
4.1  Greg Jones  replied to  JBB @4    one month ago
[deleted]
 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
4.1.1  seeder  Tessylo  replied to  Greg Jones @4.1    one month ago

The former occupant of the White House didn't have a plan.  

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Principal
4.1.2  Gordy327  replied to  Tessylo @4.1.1    one month ago

There was a plan: downplay and ignore it and hope it gets better. 

To quote Tony Stark, aka Iron Man, "Not a great plan!"

 
 
 
gooseisgone
Senior Quiet
4.1.3  gooseisgone  replied to  Gordy327 @4.1.2    one month ago
To quote Tony Stark, aka Iron Man, "Not a great plan!"

Tell me what plan would have stopped the virus, I haven't seen it or read about it, please give me this plan you keep speaking about. 

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Principal
4.1.4  Gordy327  replied to  gooseisgone @4.1.3    one month ago

For starters, taking it and early warnings seriously. Not cutting funding to disease prevention program. Publicly urge people to wear masks answer social distance and lead by example. Don't argue with or contradict actual scientists investigating the outbreak. Don't downplay the severity of the outbreak or falsely claim it will end by summer. And not spending time playing golf or tweeting political buzz during a national crisis might be helpful to. You know, show some actual leadership during a crisis. That's just for starters. 

 
 
 
MrFrost
Masters Principal
4.1.5  MrFrost  replied to  gooseisgone @4.1.3    one month ago
Tell me what plan would have stopped the virus

Stopped? Probably nothing. But lying about it and golfing for 4 months probably didn't do much to minimize the spread. 

 
 
 
321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu
Sophomore Principal
4.1.6  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu   replied to  MrFrost @4.1.5    one month ago
But lying about it and golfing for 4 months probably didn't do much to minimize the spread. 

trump out and out denied the virus for as long as he possibly could. trump did not want to deal with the virus,  HIS re-election was HIS priority.  Not the safety of US.

YES most likely the virus spread more and probably killed more Americans than IF trump would have acknowledged and implemented plans to fight this deadly virus much sooner. 

As we all have seen the deadly virus certainly did not just disappear as trump proclaimed it would for months.

Instead it killed many many Americans. 

IMO: What trump did was not the intentions or actions of a good leader of men it was the intentions and actions of a person whose own power was more important to him than your or my life. 

Sad

 
 
 
gooseisgone
Senior Quiet
4.2  gooseisgone  replied to  JBB @4    one month ago
Thank God we have competent leadership again..

Tell me what has the new "competent" leader changed since he's been in the White House, please give me this new policy that he has enacted to save the US. He claimed he had "A PLAN" wtf is his plan?

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Principal
4.2.1  Gordy327  replied to  gooseisgone @4.2    one month ago

For starters, listen to science and follow the evidence along with recommendations. That's always a good thing.

 
 
 
dennis smith
Senior Silent
4.2.2  dennis smith  replied to  Gordy327 @4.2.1    one month ago

Fauci was the spokesman for Trump and now for Biden. He was mistaken and/or lied more than once.

Trump is responsible for over 800 million vaccine doses being ordered before leaving office. Trump led the charge to have vaccines available in less than 1 year while others were saying it typically takes 5,10 or even 20 years to develop vaccines. Trump shut down travel from China in Jan 2020. Trump is responsible for making medical personnel available. Trump is responsible for converting the Javits Center to a Covid facility. Trump is responsible for making the Navy hospital ships available as Covid facilities. The list goes on as does the denial by the left. 

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Principal
4.2.3  Gordy327  replied to  dennis smith @4.2.2    one month ago
Fauci was the spokesman for Trump and now for Biden. He was mistaken and/or lied more than once.

Dr. Fauci was also in the unenviable position of playing politics and having political pressure placed on him. Perhaps Trump should not have gotten in his way, it would not have been an issue!

Trump is responsible for over 800 million vaccine doses being ordered before leaving office.

One should hope so. That would be the smart thing to do. The problem is the actual availability and delivery of mass quantities of vaccines. Not t mention having said vaccines pass clinical trials. Another problem was Trump's order of vaccines was only for authorized vaccines. Only Pfizer & Moderna passed that requirement. Between them, there was only 400 million does available, half of what was needed.

Trump led the charge to have vaccines available in less than 1 year

Scientists and pharmaceutical companies did that. Not Trump. 

while others were saying it typically takes 5,10 or even 20 years to develop vaccines.

Not all viruses are the same. Neither are vaccines. Research and development times of vaccines can vary. 

Trump shut down travel from China in Jan 2020.

Trump imposed a travel ban from China on January 31, 2020. At that point, there were already confirmed Covid cases in the US. Too little, too late! The ban itself only applied to non US citizens who had been in China within the last 14 days and were not the immediate family member of U.S. citizens or/and permanent residents. That reduces the effectiveness of any ban. Unless ALL people are prohibited from coming from China, a ban is essentially useless, as it takes only 1 infected person to spread the virus, which had already happened by that point. Not to mention major airlines didn't completely cease flights to or from China until almost mid-February.

Trump is responsible for making medical personnel available.

Oh really? Did Trump magically graduate needed medical personnel? Medical personnel and resources are finite. Utilizing them for 1 area means there's a deficit in another area. Medical personnel were stretched to the breaking point during pandemic. So how exactly did Trump make medical personnel available?

Trump is responsible for converting the Javits Center to a Covid facility.

No. The Javits Center was already being used to treat non-Covid patients in order to free up hosptial space for Covid patients. Governor Cuomo made the request to convert it a Covid site. All Trump did was say "yes." You seem to overstate Trump's credit. That also seems to be a recurring theme with you.

Trump is responsible for making the Navy hospital ships available as Covid facilities.

Only 2 hospital ships were made available. One for New York and the other for Los Angeles. Neither ship ended up caring for a significant number of patients and only remained in their respective cities for about a month.

The list goes on as does the denial by the left. 

While Trump sycophants continue to sing Trump's praises despite Trump's miserable failure in dealing with Covid. Day 1 of Covid in this country started under Trump's watch. Since then, the US has had the highest number of Covid cases and death in the entire world. That alone speaks volumes. People can defend Trump if they want. But clearly they are the one's in denial. The numbers do not lie.

 
 
 
dennis smith
Senior Silent
4.2.4  dennis smith  replied to  Gordy327 @4.2.3    4 weeks ago

Your continued spin on facts are noted.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
4.2.5  Dulay  replied to  dennis smith @4.2.2    4 weeks ago
Fauci was the spokesman for Trump and now for Biden.

False. Fauci was and is the Director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases. He was NEVER a 'spokesman' for Trump, nor was he ever the Chef Medical Advisor to Trump. THAT position was VACANT for all of 2020. It was previously held by the drug dealer, Ronnie Johnson. 

By April 2020, Trump axed Fauci from his 'Covid Press Briefings' because Fauci wasn't rinsing and repeating Trump's bullshit. 

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Principal
4.2.6  Gordy327  replied to  dennis smith @4.2.4    4 weeks ago

Your inability to offer any rebuttal to my post, other than empty declarations, is so noted.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
5  Kavika     one month ago

Not at all surprising since Trump was in the White House downplaying it for months.

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Masters Participates
5.1  Greg Jones  replied to  Kavika @5    one month ago

You can thank Trump for the shot you got

 
 
 
Ozzwald
PhD Quiet
5.1.1  Ozzwald  replied to  Greg Jones @5.1    one month ago
You can thank Trump for the shot you got

I got Pfizer, what should I thank him for???

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
5.1.2  Kavika   replied to  Greg Jones @5.1    one month ago

[Deleted]

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Principal
5.1.3  Gordy327  replied to  Ozzwald @5.1.1    one month ago

I'll thank Pfizer, Moderna, J&J, and all the scientists involved in producing a vaccine. Leave it to science to get things done. Not some politician or prayer or whatever other nonsense. 

 
 
 
Split Personality
PhD Principal
5.1.4  Split Personality  replied to  Gordy327 @5.1.3    one month ago

Peter Hotez, scruffy looking mad scientist with a bow tie, Baylor, worked on a SARs vaccine from 2003 to 2016

then put it in deep freeze until December 2020 when he could not find any interest at the WH.

He had the basics done.  Pfizer had BioNTech do the RNA work necessary to attack Covid specifically and began

testing on people April 8 2020, 5 weeks before Operation Warp Speed was established on May 15, 2020.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
PhD Quiet
5.1.5  Ozzwald  replied to  Split Personality @5.1.4    one month ago
Pfizer had BioNTech do the RNA work necessary to attack Covid specifically and began testing on people April 8 2020, 5 weeks before Operation Warp Speed was established on May 15, 2020.

Pfizer did not take any Operation Warp Speed money.  I just read an article theorizing that Trump turned down the additional Pfizer vaccines for the specific reason that he could not take credit for them.  No strict evidence that this is true, but it does sound like something Trump would do.

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Principal
5.1.6  Gordy327  replied to  Split Personality @5.1.4    one month ago

But somehow, Trump and his sycophants try to claim credit. jrSmiley_80_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Principal
5.1.7  Gordy327  replied to  Ozzwald @5.1.5    one month ago

That would not surprise me in the least.

 
 
 
gooseisgone
Senior Quiet
5.1.8  gooseisgone  replied to  Gordy327 @5.1.3    one month ago
I'll thank Pfizer, Moderna, J&J, and all the scientists involved in producing a vaccine.

and you can thank TRUMP for lifting the restrictions on trials and approval along with the cash they received along the way, otherwise we would still be waiting for it.   

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Principal
5.1.9  Gordy327  replied to  gooseisgone @5.1.8    one month ago

Actually, it was BARDA and AstraZeneca parnership that did that. All Trump did was call for a certain amount of vaccine doses to be available. Actual scientists had tp make it happen.

 
 
 
gooseisgone
Senior Quiet
5.1.10  gooseisgone  replied to  Gordy327 @5.1.9    one month ago
Actual scientists had tp make it happen.

Nobody is claiming Trump created the vaccine, just bent the rules to allow it to be created in the time that it did. Unless of course you can point me to another vaccine for a pandemic that was created and to market in less than a year.  

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Principal
5.1.11  Gordy327  replied to  gooseisgone @5.1.10    one month ago

Again, wrong. Trump tried to apply political pressure. Not to actually try to help people get the vaccine, but more to improve his political standing and reelection chances. But he can't change established guidelines. The Best Trump could do was block any new guidelines proposed. Not "bend" current ones.

 
 
 
gooseisgone
Senior Quiet
5.1.12  gooseisgone  replied to  Gordy327 @5.1.11    one month ago

Ok Gordy what ever let’s you sleep at night. 

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Principal
5.1.13  Gordy327  replied to  gooseisgone @5.1.12    one month ago

Since you can't offer any rebuttal, I'll be sleeping just fine, thank you.

 
 
 
gooseisgone
Senior Quiet
5.1.14  gooseisgone  replied to  Gordy327 @5.1.13    one month ago

Ok Gordy Warp Speed had nothing at all to do with the creation of the vaccine in less than a year. Answer this for me, how long did it take to create the vaccine for  SARS, MERS, and AIDS.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
PhD Quiet
5.1.15  Ozzwald  replied to  gooseisgone @5.1.10    one month ago
Nobody is claiming Trump created the vaccine, just bent the rules to allow it to be created in the time that it did.

What rules are you claiming he bent?  Nothing came up to the US government until they asked the FDA for emergency approval AFTER the vaccine had been developed.

All Trump did, was the same thing he always does, he gave tax payer money to the mega wealthy pharmaceutical corporations with no restrictions or conditions attached to it. 

And I feel the need to point out that the pharmaceutical corporations that took the money, were slower to develop the vaccine than Pfizer, who took no money from Operation Warp Speed..

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
5.1.16  seeder  Tessylo  replied to  gooseisgone @5.1.14    one month ago

Why don't you do your own homework?

 
 
 
gooseisgone
Senior Quiet
5.1.17  gooseisgone  replied to  Ozzwald @5.1.15    one month ago
And I feel the need to point out that the pharmaceutical corporations that took the money, were slower to develop the vaccine than Pfizer, who took no money from Operation Warp Speed..

Well......that's not exactly true.

On Monday, a spokeswoman for Pfizer clarified that the company is part of Operation Warp Speed as a supplier of a potential coronavirus vaccine. Was the Pfizer vaccine part of the government’s Operation Warp Speed? - The New York Times (nytimes.com)
 
 
 
gooseisgone
Senior Quiet
5.1.18  gooseisgone  replied to  Tessylo @5.1.16    one month ago
Why don't you do your own homework?

On what?

 
 
 
321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu
Sophomore Principal
5.1.19  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu   replied to  gooseisgone @5.1.14    one month ago
how long did it take to create the vaccine for  SARS, MERS, and AIDS.

Seems those vaccines helped be able to accelerate this vaccine into a "warp speed"  mode. Some of the work had already been done.

............................................

Technology readiness.  GAO's analysis of the OWS vaccine candidates' technology readiness levels (TRL)—an indicator of technology maturity— showed that COVID-19 vaccine development under OWS generally followed traditional practices, with some adaptations. 

FDA issued specific guidance that identified ways that vaccine development may be accelerated during the pandemic. Vaccine companies told GAO that the primary difference from a non-pandemic environment was the compressed timelines. To meet OWS timelines, some vaccine companies relied on data from other vaccines using the same platforms.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
5.1.20  seeder  Tessylo  replied to  gooseisgone @5.1.18    one month ago

See Steve's comment just above mine?  He did your homework for you.

 
 
 
gooseisgone
Senior Quiet
5.1.21  gooseisgone  replied to  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu @5.1.19    one month ago
Seems those vaccines

Please provide the link to the MERS, SARS and AIDS vaccines.

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Principal
5.1.22  Gordy327  replied to  gooseisgone @5.1.14    one month ago
Ok Gordy Warp Speed had nothing at all to do with the creation of the vaccine in less than a year.

I didn't say that. Neither did I address O:WS itself directly either. Intentionally misrepresenting what I say is as good as lying.

 
 
 
321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu
Sophomore Principal
5.1.23  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu   replied to  gooseisgone @5.1.21    one month ago
Please provide the link to the MERS, SARS and AIDS vaccines

It showed Sars in the article link I already provided:

512

 
 
 
gooseisgone
Senior Quiet
5.1.24  gooseisgone  replied to  Gordy327 @5.1.22    one month ago
Trump tried to apply political pressure. Not to actually try to help people get the vaccine
But he can't change established guidelines.
The Best Trump could do was block any new guidelines
I didn't say that. Neither did I address O:WS itself directly either.

Then what are you saying?  Did OWS help or not? You saying Trump did this to help his political standing and not not help people is a complete fabrication 

 
 
 
Ozzwald
PhD Quiet
5.1.25  Ozzwald  replied to  gooseisgone @5.1.17    one month ago
Well......that's not exactly true.

It is if you look at Operation Warp Speed.  It was designed to speed up development and distribution of the vaccine.  Pfizer did not take any of the money for development, and only took money as purchase price of the vaccine.  And the Trump administration showed that it did not speed up the distribution.

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Principal
5.1.26  Gordy327  replied to  gooseisgone @5.1.24    one month ago
Then what are you saying? 

I guess you weren't paying attention.

You saying Trump did this to help his political standing and not not help people is a complete fabrication 

Merely a partisan opinion.

 
 
 
gooseisgone
Senior Quiet
5.1.27  gooseisgone  replied to  Gordy327 @5.1.26    one month ago
Merely a partisan opinion.

On your part.

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Principal
5.1.28  Gordy327  replied to  gooseisgone @5.1.27    one month ago

Not even a little.

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
PhD Guide
5.1.29  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  gooseisgone @5.1.24    one month ago
Did OWS help or not?

Did "Operation Warp Speed" develop the vaccine?

No.

Did "Operation Warp Speed" add anything to the development of the vaccine?

No.

Did "Operation Warp Speed" give money to the research of the vaccine?

No.

What did "Operation Warp Speed" do?

It sped up the approvals (rubber stamped 'Approved!') during the testing phase of the vaccine which was already being developed long before OWS ever was implemented.

So essentially the thing OWS can be praised for is cutting some red tape, that's it, which is commendable but is essentially the very least the government could do when faced with an epidemic. Any party from any government would have done the very same thing in similar circumstances. Praising the Trump administration for doing the very least possible which was getting government out of the way of vaccine development is a bit like praising Al Gore for "inventing the internet". If you want to give Trump credit for the vaccine then you'd also have to give Al Gore the credit for the internet even though all he did was help cut a lot of government red tape during it's development.

Internet pioneers Robert Kahn and Vinton Cerf (the latter often referred to as the “father of the Internet”) in 2000 noted that “Al Gore was the first political leader to recognize the importance of the Internet and to promote and support its development” and that “No other elected official, to our knowledge, has made a greater contribution [to the Internet] over a longer period of time”.

So if someone wants to say "Donald Trump and his 'Operation Warp Speed' recognized the importance of a Covid vaccine and promoted and supported its development" that would be a fair statement, but obviously they did not "invent" or "develop" the vaccine that would have been developed with or without them.

What should also not be forgotten is how Trump and his administration downplayed the virus from the very beginning and disregarded safety recommendations from their own CDC and re-wrote recommendations to fit the downplayed narrative they had crafted around Covid. This led to millions rejecting mask and social distancing recommendations that could have saved tens of thousands of lives. So the grade given to the Trump administration should be at best a C- which was a complete failure to support CDC recommendations but then at the last minute cut red tape that allowed vaccines faster government approval. If they hadn't done that they would be stuck with a solid 'F' grade for their handling of the pandemic.

 
 
 
dennis smith
Senior Silent
5.1.30  dennis smith  replied to  Gordy327 @5.1.3    one month ago

A POTUS is responsible for what happens under his watch.

 
 
 
dennis smith
Senior Silent
5.1.31  dennis smith  replied to  Ozzwald @5.1.5    one month ago

"I just read an article theorizing....................................for them".

"No strict evidence that this is true.............."

Not convincing at all.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
5.1.32  TᵢG  replied to  dennis smith @5.1.30    one month ago
A POTUS is responsible for what happens under his watch.

Not quite.  A PotUS is not an emperor.   The role of PotUS is limited by the CotUS.

But a PotUS is responsible for the workings of the federal government.   

Also, and this is what I think you were trying to convey, a PotUS is, by convention, credited for everything good that happened while in office (and sometimes after) and blamed for everything bad that happened while in office (and often after).

For example, Trump has been credited with a strong economy and good growth in the stock market.   He is also blamed for the handling of COVID-19.

Biden, in turn, gets credit for a continuing economic recovery and still strong stock market.   He also gets credit for the distribution of the vaccine.   And should the economy take its predictable dip on Biden's watch, he will be blamed for that.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
PhD Quiet
5.1.33  Ozzwald  replied to  dennis smith @5.1.31    one month ago

Not convincing at all.

Am I trying to convince anyone?

I openly stated that it was someone's opinion with no facts to back it up.  Unlike certain people around here, I DO NOT claim that a simple opinion is necessarily fact.

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Principal
5.1.34  Gordy327  replied to  dennis smith @5.1.30    one month ago

Yes and no. A President is responsible for actions he takes or does not take when dealing with any issues that come up. Similarly, he is credited or blamed for the outcomes of action or inaction. 

 
 
 
dennis smith
Senior Silent
5.1.35  dennis smith  replied to  Gordy327 @5.1.6    one month ago

see 4.2.2 and stop spinning

 
 
 
dennis smith
Senior Silent
5.1.36  dennis smith  replied to  TᵢG @5.1.32    one month ago

All POTUS's are responsible for what happens when they are in office. 

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Principal
5.1.37  Gordy327  replied to  dennis smith @5.1.35    one month ago
see 4.2.2 and stop spinning

See 4.2.3 and speak for yourself!

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Principal
5.1.38  Gordy327  replied to  dennis smith @5.1.36    one month ago
All POTUS's are responsible for what happens when they are in office. 

By that logic, Trump is then responsible for almost 30 million confirmed cases and almost 550,000 Covid deaths in the US. More than any country in the world. So tell us, what exactly has Trump done again? Other than not nearly enough, as the numbers indicate!

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
5.1.39  TᵢG  replied to  dennis smith @5.1.36    one month ago
All POTUS's are responsible for what happens when they are in office. 

I just explained this.   Instead of simply repeating your vague claim show where my comment is wrong.

 
 
 
cjcold
PhD Quiet
5.1.40  cjcold  replied to  gooseisgone @5.1.10    one month ago
Nobody is claiming Trump created the vaccine,

You seem to ignore that neither America nor Trump is the whole world. 

All agree that Trump denied covid-19 science just as he did/does with AGW. 

Nice to have a president who knows a bit about science again.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
PhD Quiet
5.1.41  Ozzwald  replied to  Gordy327 @5.1.38    one month ago

By that logic, Trump is then responsible for almost 30 million confirmed cases and almost 550,000 Covid deaths in the US. More than any country in the world. So tell us, what exactly has Trump done again? Other than not nearly enough, as the numbers indicate!

Don't forget that it would also make Trump responsible for rocketing this country's economy to the bottom again, while at the same time elevating unemployment to new heights.

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Principal
5.1.42  Gordy327  replied to  Ozzwald @5.1.41    one month ago

Now let's see if that point, based on the assertion that a President is responsible for everything under his watch, gets ignored or not.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
PhD Quiet
5.1.43  Ozzwald  replied to  Gordy327 @5.1.42    one month ago

Now let's see if that point, based on the assertion that a President is responsible for everything under his watch, gets ignored or not.

Oh, I don't think you'll be seeing Dennis Smith on this comment thread again.

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Principal
5.1.44  Gordy327  replied to  Ozzwald @5.1.43    one month ago

I would not be surprised. 

 
 
 
dennis smith
Senior Silent
5.1.45  dennis smith  replied to  Gordy327 @5.1.37    4 weeks ago

See 4.2.4 for a reality check.

 
 
 
dennis smith
Senior Silent
5.1.46  dennis smith  replied to  Ozzwald @5.1.43    4 weeks ago

You are very wrong. Trump was responsible for what happened under his watch just as is Bidet. Acceptance of 3 very good years and one poor year were under his watch. Remember the economy, low unemployment for all races etc during his first 3 years. 

When a clown (Bidet) is elected it is followed by a circus.  

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
Senior Participates
5.1.47  igknorantzrulz  replied to  dennis smith @5.1.46    4 weeks ago

Nice Rose colored glasses you do view through

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Principal
5.1.48  Gordy327  replied to  dennis smith @5.1.45    4 weeks ago

4.2.6

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
5.1.49  seeder  Tessylo  replied to  igknorantzrulz @5.1.47    4 weeks ago

More like urine colored glasses . . . .

 
 
 
dennis smith
Senior Silent
5.1.50  dennis smith  replied to  Tessylo @5.1.49    4 weeks ago

Typical 1st grade comment 

 
 
 
dennis smith
Senior Silent
5.1.51  dennis smith  replied to  igknorantzrulz @5.1.47    4 weeks ago

The very same to you.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
PhD Quiet
5.1.52  Ozzwald  replied to  dennis smith @5.1.46    4 weeks ago
Remember the economy, low unemployment for all races etc during his first 3 years. 

Ahh yes, the 1st three years before he totally trashed this country. 

That totally makes up for the condition the economy is in today, the millions going onto unemployment, and the over 550,000 dead.      /sarc

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
6  seeder  Tessylo    one month ago

No, no, and no. . . 

 
 
 
321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu
Sophomore Principal
7  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu     one month ago

Considering that trump DID NOT want to fight the virus during his reelection process and instead just kept saying, "It will disappear"  this information does not surprise me in the least.

IMO: trump used his power to "cripple" or sideline other government agencies as well while president. 

I really believe trump probably had much to do with the capitol Not being protected so his followers would be able to disrupt our government's business. 

trumps end game ?  Martial law ?  Holding power in any way possible.

martial law


noun

the law temporarily imposed upon an area by state or national military forces when civil authority has broken down or during wartime military operations.
 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
7.1  seeder  Tessylo  replied to  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu @7    one month ago

See, we can agree on something!!!!!!!!

I agree with everything you say here.

I'm sorry I was such a bitch to you yesterday and telling you 'Don't do that'  I went overboard.

Like when we used to talk about Hillary Clinton.

How about we make a truce and I agree not to discuss President Biden with you?

Still friends?

 
 
 
321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu
Sophomore Principal
7.1.1  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu   replied to  Tessylo @7.1    one month ago
Still friends?

I'd like that very much Tesslyo

Like I said when you were the first to welcome me back, I looked for you as soon as I came back on the site after being gone so long. I valued our online friendship then and still do. 

Yes we agree on so much. I will certainly keep our current differences about president Biden in mind when I reply to you in the future. 

I think we can both agree that we both wish president Biden the best. 

As far as I'm concerned Tesslyo we both could have been on better behaviour yesterday. But Please know I really was just Joking when I said Duu I have always known that you are an intelligent person by your words. It shows !

Thanks, Steve 

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
7.1.2  Trout Giggles  replied to  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu @7.1.1    one month ago

Awww...I love it when people bump elbows and make up! Good on the both of you!

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
8  seeder  Tessylo    one month ago

"I think we can both agree that we both wish president Biden the best."

Yes!

"As far as I'm concerned Tesslyo we both could have been on better behaviour yesterday. But Please know I really was just Joking when I said Duu I have always known that you are an intelligent person by your words. It shows !"

We all have our bad days. . . I believe you regarding the Duu (my best friend and I love to 'Duh' each other) I sometimes go too far but I know there was no ill will on your part and there is no ill will on my part either . . . I'm a bit stubborn as I imagine most of us are.

Thank you Steve,

You're Aces

 
 
 
321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu
Sophomore Principal
8.1  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu   replied to  Tessylo @8    one month ago
I'm a bit stubborn as I imagine most of us are.  jrSmiley_13_smiley_image.gif

LOL 

:)

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
8.1.1  seeder  Tessylo  replied to  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu @8.1    one month ago

And your opinion is just as valid as mine, except when I disagree!

LOL!

Just kidding, of course. . . 

 
 
 
321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu
Sophomore Principal
8.1.2  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu   replied to  Tessylo @8.1.1    one month ago

lol  jrSmiley_82_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
9  Buzz of the Orient    one month ago

I'd like to step back a bit.  Didn't Trump disband an agency that Obama had appointed to prepare for and effectively deal wtih a possible pandemic?

 
 
 
Ozzwald
PhD Quiet
9.1  Ozzwald  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @9    one month ago
I'd like to step back a bit.  Didn't Trump disband an agency that Obama had appointed to prepare for and effectively deal wtih a possible pandemic?

And remove a position that was in place at the Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention.  That position would have been integral in relaying timely info to us in regards to COVID in the very early days.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
9.1.1  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Ozzwald @9.1    one month ago

Absolutely.  I had read the report that that had happened, and should have added it to my comment.   Both of those being left in place instead of being disbanded by Trump could have been instrumental in early curtailing of the virus in the USA, and possibly could have saved hundreds of thousands of American lives.  You will not see the Trumpsters here on NT admit that.  It's much more convenient to just blame China.  However, it is also an interesting factor that had those "pandemic guardians" been in place and carried out what would be expected of them, Trump might have won the election.  It was what Trump did what he shouldn't, and didn't do as he should, that lost him the election, IMO.  

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
9.1.2  seeder  Tessylo  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @9.1.1    4 weeks ago
"Absolutely.  I had read the report that that had happened, and should have added it to my comment.   Both of those being left in place instead of being disbanded by Trump could have been instrumental in early curtailing of the virus in the USA, and possibly could have saved hundreds of thousands of American lives.  You will not see the Trumpsters here on NT admit that.  It's much more convenient to just blame China.  However, it is also an interesting factor that had those "pandemic guardians" been in place and carried out what would be expected of them, Trump might have won the election.  It was what Trump did what he shouldn't, and didn't do as he should, that lost him the election, IMO."

Todays' gqp - the party of 'We take no responsibility' and EVERYTHING is the fault of Democrats/Progressives/Liberals EVERYTHING OR ANYTHING BUT OUR OWN INACTION, DENIAL, AND PROJECTION

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
9.2  seeder  Tessylo  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @9    4 weeks ago

Yes!  There were 37 agencies around the world to deal with future/possible pandemics also that were put in place that the former occupant of the White House disbanded.

Just think where we'd be right now if a trump 'presidency' never happened.  We wouldn't be where we are right now, regarding the pandemic and many other major issues that effect us, that's for sure.  

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Masters Participates
10  Greg Jones    4 weeks ago

An even greater saving of lives would have happened if the Chinese government had not silenced its medical experts, denied there was a problem, and did not attempt to contain it.

It's likely that if HRC were president, the vaccines would still be at the early trial stage. Most rational Americans don't believe Trump made the pandemic worse. And they also wonder about the lack of outrage at Cuomo's actions.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
10.1  seeder  Tessylo  replied to  Greg Jones @10    4 weeks ago

If Hillary had been President, we wouldn't be where we are now.  See above.

Your whataboutism, denial, and projection, as always, are duly noted.  

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
10.2  seeder  Tessylo  replied to  Greg Jones @10    4 weeks ago

89603007_10219661081891478_1537644179398590464_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=3hWyIg0B2wwAX_k42m-&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=8dd7df86c8b0b6bd77080fce177459dc&oe=607C9725

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
10.3  Dulay  replied to  Greg Jones @10    4 weeks ago
An even greater saving of lives would have happened if the Chinese government had not silenced its medical experts, denied there was a problem, and did not attempt to contain it.

Oh the irony that you fail to recognize that is EXACTLY what Trump did in spades. 

 
 
 
321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu
Sophomore Principal
10.4  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu   replied to  Greg Jones @10    4 weeks ago

Most rational Americans  believe Trump made the pandemic worse.

An even greater saving of lives would have happened if trump's government had not silenced its medical experts, denied there was a problem, and did not attempt to contain it.

Because the virus DID NOT JUST DISAPPEAR as trump kept insisting it would

But it did kill more than half a million of us so far. 

 
 
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