Dr Fauci on the hot seat

  

Category:  News & Politics

By:  vic-eldred  •  4 weeks ago  •  181 comments

Dr Fauci on the hot seat
“You’re telling everybody to wear a mask, whether they’ve had an infection or a vaccine,” Paul said, pressing Dr. Fauci on demands that all Americans wear masks into 2022. “What studies do you have that people who have had the vaccine or have had the infection are spreading the infection? If we’re not spreading the infection, isn’t it just theater? If you’ve had the vaccine and you’re wearing two masks, isn’t that theater?”

Yesterday a strange thing happened at the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee hearing. Senator Rand Paul actually confronted the man responsible for America's original lock down last spring. Dr Fauci was directly asked about his demands that even the vaccinated continue wearing masks indefinitely.





Rand-Paul-Fauci-e1616103600815-998x651.jpg

(I had trouble focusing on Sen Paul with that distracting background)

Sen Paul:

“You’re telling everybody to wear a mask, whether they’ve had an infection or a vaccine?

“What studies do you have that people who have had the vaccine or have had the infection are spreading the infection?

"If we’re not spreading the infection, isn’t it just theater?

"If you’ve had the vaccine and you’re wearing two masks, isn’t that theater?


Dr Fauci could only respond with:

“Here we go again with the theater.”   Dr Fauci then raised his concerns about "variants."


Sen Paul:

“What study shows significant reinfection, hospitalization, and death either after natural infection or a vaccine?”

 “It doesn’t exist… There is no evidence there are significant reinfections after a vaccine.”

“You’ve been vaccinated and you parade around in two masks for show. You can’t get it again… You want to get rid of vaccine hesitancy?

"Tell them they can quit wearing their masks after they get the vaccine.”


Dr Fauci was unable to cite any studies. He was left to mutter: “Well, let me just state for the record that masks are not theater." “Masks are protective.”

As his time was running out Sen Paul, who is a doctor, managed to respond with the final word - “If you already have immunity, they are theater.” 


Dr Fauci's high horse was nowhere to be found.




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Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1  author  Vic Eldred    4 weeks ago

Dr Fauci was without his admirers yesterday.  He faced tough questions. It was a tough day.

 
 
 
cjcold
PhD Quiet
1.1  cjcold  replied to  Vic Eldred @1    4 weeks ago

Dr.Fauci held up well while being questioned by fools with foolish questions.

Rand Paul?! Really!?

 
 
 
devangelical
PhD Principal
1.1.1  devangelical  replied to  cjcold @1.1    4 weeks ago

rand paul, the leading tea party brain trust member.

 
 
 
cjcold
PhD Quiet
1.2  cjcold  replied to  Vic Eldred @1    4 weeks ago

So you are anti anybody who ever disagreed with Trump?

I'll believe Fauci over any ignorant right wing science denier any day.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.2.1  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  cjcold @1.2    4 weeks ago
So you are anti anybody who ever disagreed with Trump?

That must be why we canonized Dr Fauci. As I recall, Dr Fauci's recommendations were all followed, but ya, Fauci played politics. Maybe that's why he shouldn't have the job.


I'll believe Fauci over any ignorant right wing science denier any day.

The only real science deniers were the Teacher's Union and their lap dogs in the Biden administration:

"CDC director Rochelle Walensky said Friday that teachers do not need to receive the coronavirus vaccination before returning to the classroom, reiterating a position the White House had previously dismissed.

Walensky said at a CDC meeting last week that vaccinating teachers "is not a prerequisite" for reopening schools. White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki   dismissed   Walensky's statement, claiming the nation's top infectious disease expert spoke "in her personal capacity."

But Walensky doubled down on her previous statement Friday during a teleconference that unveiled the CDC's new guidelines for school reopening. Walensky stressed that schools can begin opening before all teachers and faculty receive the vaccine.
"Again it's one of those layers of mitigation that we believe will help," she said, "but we believe and the science has demonstrated that schools can be reopened safely prior to all teachers being vaccinated."



 
 
 
Split Personality
PhD Principal
1.2.2  Split Personality  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.2.1    4 weeks ago
Fauci played politics. Maybe that's why he shouldn't have the job.

Meanwhile someone at the WH was rewriting the CDC website and others with questionable "facts".

Trump and the WH played politics with science.  Redfield allowed it.

Anyone with two eyes and reason could see Fauci, Birx and even Pence struggling with political pressures

and the personal dilemma of contradicting the POTUS.

Wearing masks might very well turn out to be the equivalent of mass evacuation drills

and school drills to hide under our desks as if those maneuvers would make a difference in a real nuclear event.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.2.3  Tessylo  replied to  Split Personality @1.2.2    4 weeks ago
"Fauci played politics. Maybe that's why he shouldn't have the job."

  <

"Meanwhile someone at the WH was rewriting the CDC website and others with questionable "facts".

Trump and the WH played politics with science.  Redfield allowed it.

Anyone with two eyes and reason could see Fauci, Birx and even Pence struggling with political pressures

and the personal dilemma of contradicting the POTUS.

Wearing masks might very well turn out to be the equivalent of mass evacuation drills

and school drills to hide under our desks as if those maneuvers would make a difference in a real nuclear event."

Redfield looked at trump like he was some kind of god.  You're right, he did allow it.  

I knew him back in the day when he was the Head of Infectious Diseases at the  University Hospital where I work.  I'll tell you some time if you're interested.  He's kind of a sleaze as far as I'm concerned.  

 
 
 
MAGA
Senior Guide
1.2.4  MAGA  replied to  Split Personality @1.2.2    4 weeks ago

 
 
 
cjcold
PhD Quiet
1.2.5  cjcold  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.2.1    4 weeks ago
the science has demonstrated

The science hasn't demonstrated any such right wing thing.

 
 
 
Split Personality
PhD Principal
1.2.6  Split Personality  replied to  MAGA @1.2.4    4 weeks ago

I already expressed my disinterest in what Rand Paul's arrogant opinions are

stop wasting my time with spam and repetitious instagrams.

They are way beyond no value to me.

 
 
 
Split Personality
PhD Principal
1.2.7  Split Personality  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.2.1    4 weeks ago

I am sure that you also participated in all fire drills and

especially in those cold war drills where we had to hide under our own desks

until the imaginary "all clear" sirens sounded.

Take a break from the hate.

 
 
 
MAGA
Senior Guide
1.2.8  MAGA  replied to  Split Personality @1.2.6    4 weeks ago

It is the topic of the seed is it not.  Your interests and opinions are of no concern to me here.  What Dr. Paul said is.  

 
 
 
dennis smith
Senior Silent
1.2.9  dennis smith  replied to  Split Personality @1.2.6    3 weeks ago

I am disinterested in other politicians,  Pelosi and Schumer's arrogant opinions are..

 
 
 
Split Personality
PhD Principal
1.2.10  Split Personality  replied to  MAGA @1.2.8    3 weeks ago

Then why waste time reiterating what yours are and move on to Parler for applause and brotherhood...

 
 
 
Split Personality
PhD Principal
1.2.11  Split Personality  replied to  dennis smith @1.2.9    3 weeks ago
I am disinterested in other politicians,

Meaning what exactly?  You only like Rand Paul?

Pelosi and Schumer's arrogant opinions are..

Are what? Completely off topic?  Neither were mentioned in the seeds or author's comments.

As to the article, I have already had one shot and everyone involved

was very emphatic that I only will have PARTIAL IMMUNITY gradually increasing over 3 weeks

to about ( between 52% and ) 85% depending on the source.

A second shot is supposed to get us to 98 - 100%  "immunity"

with a 3% chance of still getting Covid as experienced by the Israeli tests to date.

So Rand Paul is wrong about immunity equals no masks

or masks equal theater.

Like I said elsewhere on different days, they are like fire drills, the one you ignore could cost you your life.

Now if you have anything on topic to say to me, I can respond tomorrow,

otherwise, don't bother.

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
Professor Expert
1.2.12  FLYNAVY1  replied to  Split Personality @1.2.10    3 weeks ago

I'm sure Parler has accepted the prophet from Nebraska with open arms....

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
1.2.13  CB   replied to  Split Personality @1.2.11    3 weeks ago
with a 3% chance of still getting Covid as experienced by the Israeli tests to date.

That percentage is the context for sharing COVID-19 with others who are not vaccinated (or can not accept vaccination for whatever reason). Additionally, there remains the vaccinated asymptomatic unknown as of yet possibility, which leads Dr. Fauci to caution "not yet" on mask removal.

Lastly, as I mentioned before here from a news article, the virus can 'harbor' in the nose of a vaccinated person harmlessly (the thinking goes so far and the science has not removed the possibility) and be breathed out, coughed out, sneezed out, (spoken out?) onto others.

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Masters Participates
1.3  Greg Jones  replied to  Vic Eldred @1    4 weeks ago

A growing number of experts believe Fauci is in it for all the fame and fortune.

Fauci contradicts himself on a daily basis

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Junior Expert
1.3.1  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Greg Jones @1.3    4 weeks ago

It's amazing isn't it? I think he may be building a retirement fund. After all, he is the highest paid federal employee.

 
 
 
Split Personality
PhD Principal
1.3.2  Split Personality  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @1.3.1    4 weeks ago

He's 80 or 81.  Not much time left to retire.

 
 
 
MrFrost
Masters Principal
1.3.3  MrFrost  replied to  Greg Jones @1.3    4 weeks ago

Fauci contradicts himself on a daily basis

I know of one time, and that was over a year ago, care to list for us all the other times he has contradicted himself? Should be easy to do since as you put it, "he does it daily". 

Rand Paul is an idiot. It's sad, I used to like the guy but that was before I knew what a POS he is. 

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
1.3.4  CB   replied to  MrFrost @1.3.3    4 weeks ago

I realized Rand Paul was a man who enjoys his (and excuse me for being blunt) white male rights and privileges under the constitution during the Obama Administration where he made clear in interviews, statements, and inaction that he would not lift a finger to vote for change to the constitution or laws that grant or enhance civil rights for groups not distilled in the constitution already. I saw Rand's true color then and there.

In the above sense, Rand wants to be the 'purest' of fools!

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.3.5  Tessylo  replied to  Greg Jones @1.3    4 weeks ago
"A growing number of experts believe Fauci is in it for all the fame and fortune. Fauci contradicts himself on a daily basis"

I think that's the most ridiculous 'statement' you've ever made

The fame and fortune?

What fame and fortune?

The security detail he and his family have to have because of the death threats to him and his family thanks to the former occupant of the White House?  And his supporters?

 
 
 
Split Personality
PhD Principal
1.4  Split Personality  replied to  Vic Eldred @1    4 weeks ago

Would you go to Dr Fauci for an eye problem?  No.

Why then would you accept the arrogant theater of a supposedly "practicing" ophthalmologist

who graduated med school with an internship in obstetrics and gynecology and essentially hasn't practiced medicine since 2011?

Leave the virus knows & unknowns to specialists like Fauci. Yes he's been wrong. Refreshing when someone in leadership admits it.

Rand Paul "certified" himself as a pathologist by forming his own little certifying company. He's a fraud.

As far as the virus goes, there are still too many unknowns and not enough data.

'Very promising' data shows vaccines may stop Covid transmission, but big questions remain (msn.com)

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.4.1  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Split Personality @1.4    4 weeks ago
Leave the virus knows & unknowns to specialists like Fauci.

We did that.


Yes he's been wrong.

Can you go through the list?


Refreshing when someone in leadership admits it.

When did he do that?

 
 
 
Split Personality
PhD Principal
1.4.2  Split Personality  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.4.1    4 weeks ago
We did that.

and like the fresh NBC article indicates, there still isn't enough data to prove that masks were necessary or not or that the variants are covered by the current vaccines.

Can you go through the list?

I believe in a hand up, not a hand out. You are obviously computer literate.

When did he do that?

Last July.  Need a link?

The problem was that Trump inserted himself into every daily presser and the constant twitters expressing his own disbelief.  He made the whole thing theater about him, which Rand Paul now continues.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.4.3  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Split Personality @1.4.2    4 weeks ago
and like the fresh NBC article indicates, there still isn't enough data to prove that masks were necessary or not or that the variants are covered by the current vaccines.

Then why tell us first, that they didn't work, then tell us they did and then that 2 masks are better than one? If there wasn't enough data, why not just say that?


I believe in a hand up, not a hand out. You are obviously computer literate.

Since you don't want to back up your statements, I'll do the honors. April 3, 2020: Director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases  Anthony Fauci  recommended on Thursday that all states across the U.S. implement stay-at-home orders, at a CNN town hall.



It destroyed the US economy. Do we know if it worked?  Was that his biggest mistake?  Did he ever own it?


Last July.  Need a link?

I need no link, I remember. That wasn't admitting he was wrong. That was telling us we needed to be lied to.


The problem was that Trump

Oh, some can't get over Trump. No, the problem was that Dr Fauci never missed an opportunity to get politically played by the msm.

 
 
 
Split Personality
PhD Principal
1.4.4  Split Personality  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.4.3    4 weeks ago

You do realize that Italy, France & Spain are considering lock-downs again, right?

Doctors err on the side of caution. It's in the oath they all take.

It destroyed the US economy. Do we know if it worked? 

The economy was far from destroyed, in fact I had my best year ever.  The wife's law firm had a great year.

Was that his biggest mistake? 

Fauci? Probably not retiring at 75.

Did he ever own it?

Everything, good and bad falls in the lap of the POTUS. He could have fired Fauci, Birx or Redfield at any time.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.4.5  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Split Personality @1.4.4    4 weeks ago

Oh ya, one thing I forgot is when Trump promised a vaccine within the year and Dr Fauci said a potential COVID-19 vaccine would not likely be available until the next year.


 
 
 
Split Personality
PhD Principal
1.4.6  Split Personality  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.4.5    4 weeks ago

Two things here Vic.

Fauci made a comment based on 55 years experience and was wrong.

Trump  ( OMG Is he allowed to be mentioned ) made a political promise and was correct, regardless of the odds.

Who knew that Peter Hotez (Baylor) had 95% of the vaccine base figured out

and BioNTech and Moderna could fine tune the known base formula to the new variant in a few months,

starting human trials in April 2020

Congratulations Mr Trump for the rare correct guess jrSmiley_81_smiley_image.gif about the vaccine release. 

Too bad human trials and testing was underway

5 weeks before Operation Warp Speed was announced.

Trrrump might have looked like he knew what he was talking about instead of just to his sycophant base armed with straws to

suck up every lame ass Twitter comment he sent out.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
1.4.7  CB   replied to  Split Personality @1.4.6    4 weeks ago

BTW, Mr. Trump's 'immediate' problem with the vast number of citizens is everything he says is tinged with corruption. So much so one does not know truth from error with that man. Bottom line: Trump was not and now remains not presidential material! Presidents are to be trustworthy and he never acquired that from the bulk of the public. This is why he is no more.

 
 
 
MrFrost
Masters Principal
1.5  MrFrost  replied to  Vic Eldred @1    4 weeks ago

512

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.5.1  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  MrFrost @1.5    4 weeks ago

Trump said we would have a vaccine within the year. The genius Dr Fauci said no, not till next year.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
1.5.2  sandy-2021492  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.5.1    4 weeks ago

Trump also said it would disappear in April, 2020.  He also said in February, 2020 that our numbers would get progressively better.  They got progressively worse.

 
 
 
321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu
Sophomore Principal
1.5.3  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu   replied to  Vic Eldred @1.5.1    4 weeks ago

trump held the power to allow the approval of vaccines sooner, Dr. Fauci did not. 

 
 
 
bbl-1
PhD Quiet
1.5.4  bbl-1  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.5.1    4 weeks ago

This is next year.  Holy crackers.

 
 
 
MAGA
Senior Guide
1.6  MAGA  replied to  Vic Eldred @1    4 weeks ago

Fauci is a complete idiot on the issue at this point in time.  

 
 
 
321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu
Sophomore Principal
1.6.1  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu   replied to  MAGA @1.6    4 weeks ago
Fauci is a complete idiot on the issue at this point in time.

I'll take Dr Fauci's pandemic medical related advice over any politicians pandemic medical related advice anyday. 

In fact I'd take Any reputable pandemic medical Drs advice over Any politicians pandemic medical advice Any day.

 
 
 
Split Personality
PhD Principal
1.6.2  Split Personality  replied to  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu @1.6.1    4 weeks ago

I have reconsidered my previous stance and would be fine with Dr Fauci's advise about my eyes. 

Rand Paul, Senator from KY since 2011, not so much.

 
 
 
cjcold
PhD Quiet
1.6.3  cjcold  replied to  Split Personality @1.6.2    4 weeks ago

I would trust Fauci for a referral.

 
 
 
Tacos!
PhD Expert
2  Tacos!    4 weeks ago
“You want to get rid of vaccine hesitancy? Tell them they can quit wearing their masks after they get the vaccine.”

My favorite line of their exchange.

It seems like according to Dr. Fauci, this is the first virus in the history of . . . ever for which getting a vaccine isn’t going to accomplish anything. And yet it’s supposed to be really important that we all get the vaccine. Make sense? Of course not.

Mask laws, requirements of private businesses, and limitations on gathering will still be in place as long as Dr. Fauci thinks (without evidence, as Senator Paul correctly pointed out) that there could be even a 1 in a billion chance that someone might get sick.

It’s kind of ridiculous. Vaccinated people should be able to go back to normal life. That’s the whole point of a vaccine.

If a variant truly becomes an issue even when the world is vaccinated, I have no doubt the drug companies will create a variant vaccine, and they’ll likely be able to bring it to market quickly, now that the basic vaccine has passed all of the tests. They do the same thing with the flu every year.

Once they had the COVID genome, the mRNA vaccines were actually developed in a matter of days. It was the testing that took months. But when they develop variant vaccines, they won’t need to do nearly another year of testing. They already know it works and is safe.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.1  CB   replied to  Tacos! @2    4 weeks ago

Understand this: Maligning Dr. Fauci, a trained and leading virologist, is fool-hardy.  Science is not an absolute. This is a novel virus. There are many variables at work here!

Being argumentative, as Rand Paul is doing, who is out of his area of expertise, should cause senators to question his knowledge and ask for his data, articles, and stats.

 
 
 
Tacos!
PhD Expert
2.1.1  Tacos!  replied to  CB @2.1    4 weeks ago
Understand this: Maligning Dr. Fauci, a trained and leading virologist, is fool-hardy.

Why? He is beyond criticism? I don’t think so.

Science is not an absolute. This is a novel virus. There are many variables at work here!

None of that is disputed. That also means Dr. Fauci can be wrong about a thing.

Being argumentative, as Rand Paul is doing

Again, no one can argue or disagree with Anthony Fauci? No one has been this infallible since the Pope.

who is out of his area of expertise, should cause senators to question his knowledge and ask for his data, articles, and stats.

Based on this logic, no one should be questioning Dr. Fauci. Surely, you aren’t suggesting that? Senator Paul at least has some medical training, which is more than most senators can say.

Furthermore, at least Paul came to the conversation with articles, data, and stats. He isn’t pulling his thoughts out of his ass. If you - or anyone on the committee - wants to dispute where Paul is coming from, you have the data he has cited. Examine it and see if you can dispute his claims. You can’t ask for more than that in a debate.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.1.2  CB   replied to  Tacos! @2.1.1    4 weeks ago

First, Dr. Fauci is not beyond criticism and that has not been suggested. However, he is a trained virologist. Is he or is he not?

Second, Dr. Paul is a trained ophthalmologist. He is not a virologist. When discussing viruses, which of the two men is in his area of expertise? Not even to mention on background.

Third, what is the point of Senator Paul ignoring the 'debate' over how long vaccination immunity may last or 'present' weakening; doing so in the face of ever-increasing variants ("saddled up" to spread when and where the microbe finds willing and open faces).

Fourthly, when has it ever been a display of wisdom to throw caution to the wind, seeing that 'herd immunity' eluded us so far to the tune of 500,000 plus dead and more who are chronically (indefinitely) sick.

Lastly, COVID-19 is not an eye 'issue' it presents as a whole body set of VIRAL problems. In your opinion, TACOS! who is better able to speak to virology that affects the whole of the body - Dr. Paul or Dr. Fauci?

Finally, what gives you any impression that Dr. Fauci and Dr. Paul were having a formal or informal debate? Certainly, not the 'interrupting' and hasty few minutes exchange (I hope)!

 
 
 
Tacos!
PhD Expert
2.1.3  Tacos!  replied to  CB @2.1.2    4 weeks ago

Since when is it “throwing caution to the wind” to assume that a population vaccinated against a disease can get back to business as usual? Getting back to business as usual is why we get vaccinated.

who is better able to speak to virology that affects the whole of the body - Dr. Paul or Dr. Fauci?

As a general matter, Dr. Fauci. But here we have a discussion of a specific issue and specific facts have been offered. Your entire argument is based on an appeal to authority. That’s a fallacious approach and does nothing to address the facts Dr. Paul presented.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.1.4  CB   replied to  Tacos! @2.1.3    4 weeks ago

Dr. Fauci is an authority figure, because he has the experience, rank, awards, advisor to pass presidents—multiple, and chief medical adviser to the current President of the United States. This is Dr. Fauci's area of expertise that he is discussing. You can assert he is invalid to discuss the subject matter, but it is you who stops making sense!

This still is a NOVEL coronavirus and thus not fully understood by researchers and developers of the vaccines themselves as to full capabilities (vaccine will need "time in service" or "time in the field.")

So how is it that Dr. Paul's cadre of medical spokespeople get to declare the vaccines, plural, 'safe and sound' swifter than the 'authorities' who are dedicated to the search and work for a cure?

 
 
 
Tacos!
PhD Expert
2.1.5  Tacos!  replied to  CB @2.1.4    4 weeks ago
Dr. Fauci is an authority figure

I have already referenced that this is a poor argument.

Appeal to Authority

Description:  Insisting that a claim is true simply because a valid authority or expert on the issue said it was true, without any other supporting evidence offered. 
 
 
 
Split Personality
PhD Principal
2.1.6  Split Personality  replied to  Tacos! @2.1.1    4 weeks ago
None of that is disputed.

of course it is or the hearings and articles like this are pointlesssssss...

That also means Dr. Fauci can be wrong about a thing.

Apparently not among staunch conservatives, they demand perfection or "off with their heads".

 
 
 
cjcold
PhD Quiet
2.1.7  cjcold  replied to  Tacos! @2.1.5    4 weeks ago

Dr. Fauci is an expert.

Far right wing fascists that criticize him likely didn't graduate high school.

 
 
 
Tacos!
PhD Expert
2.1.8  Tacos!  replied to  cjcold @2.1.7    4 weeks ago
Dr. Fauci is an expert.

Experts are as capable as anyone of being wrong. Regardless, I am looking for data. I'm not going to simply believe something the man says solely because he's an expert.

Far right wing fascists that criticize him likely didn't graduate high school.

I wouldn't know. I'm not either one of those things.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.1.9  CB   replied to  Tacos! @2.1.5    4 weeks ago

Now you just being. . . indulgent. I won't humor this any longer. Think whatever you will. Go mask-less, if you wish. World make way for Tacos! the Maskless!

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Masters Guide
2.2  Thrawn 31  replied to  Tacos! @2    4 weeks ago

Yeah... I am not taking Paul’s advice on anything. He is a eye doctor, which means he knows jack shit about this subject. I will continue to listen to Fauci and other virologists/epidemiologists over everyone else on this issue.

Shit, even if I had a question about my eyes I still wouldn’t listen to Paul, I’ll listen to my optometrist.

 
 
 
Tacos!
PhD Expert
2.2.1  Tacos!  replied to  Thrawn 31 @2.2    4 weeks ago
Yeah... I am not taking Paul’s advice on anything.

You don’t need to. You just need to have been alive and paying attention - either for the last year, or all of your life. 

You got a measles vaccine? If so, do you worry about getting measles? Of course not.

Polio? Smallpox? Mumps? Chickenpox? Influenza? Tetanus? Generally speaking, you get a shot and you’re good, right? If most of the population gets the shot, we’re all good.

Suddenly that’s no longer true? For real?

I don’t care how bitchin’ a guy’s résumé is. If he wants to take what everyone already knows (and has been preaching himself for the last year) about vaccines and then turn it inside out and upside down, he better bring some compelling new evidence. So far, he hasn’t.

 
 
 
Split Personality
PhD Principal
2.2.2  Split Personality  replied to  Tacos! @2.2.1    4 weeks ago

Way to miss the point and do "the pretzel"....

 
 
 
Tacos!
PhD Expert
2.2.3  Tacos!  replied to  Split Personality @2.2.2    4 weeks ago

I have no idea what you are talking about. Let me know if you want to contribute instead of attacking me.

 
 
 
cjcold
PhD Quiet
2.2.4  cjcold  replied to  Tacos! @2.2.1    4 weeks ago

[Deleted]

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.2.5  Tessylo  replied to  Split Personality @2.2.2    4 weeks ago

"Way to miss the point and do "the pretzel"...."

[Deleted]

 
 
 
Split Personality
PhD Principal
3  Split Personality    4 weeks ago
“You want to get rid of vaccine hesitancy? Tell them they can quit wearing their masks after they get the vaccine.”

People are funny, religious and political and unpredictable. 

Many will not take the vaccine regardless of any mask policy or Doctor's or POTUS' recommendation.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
4  Perrie Halpern R.A.    4 weeks ago

First of all, I watched the video and I have to say that Rand Paul is a bully. He never let Dr. Fauci explain about variants, which was critical to why we need to wear masks in public. We are not talking about getting the disease as we presently have it. We are talking about getting a variant, which is circulating, and we have no immunity to (i.e the South African variant), even from the vaccine and therefore could be spreading it.

Also, this might be helpful from Cleaveland Clinic, which is the number 1 hospital in the US:

March 8, 2021   /   Infectious Disease

Already Vaccinated? Here’s Why You Shouldn’t Stop Wearing Your Face Mask Yet

5 reasons to continue wearing a mask, even after you’re vaccinated
vaccineMask-1277861476-770x533-1-650x428.jpghttps://2rdnmg1qbg403gumla1v9i2h-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2021/02/vaccineMask-1277861476-770x533-1-370x245.jpg 370w, 745w, 275w, 690w" sizes="(max-width: 650px) 100vw, 650px" >

As more and more people become   fully vaccinated , many are wondering when life will return to normal. But before you ceremoniously throw away your face masks, experts warn that we’ll need to continue wearing them a while longer, especially in public settings.  

“Face masks and physical distancing will need to continue into the foreseeable future,” explains infectious disease specialist   Kristin Englund, MD . “Unfortunately, getting vaccinated does not instantly mean we can go back to how life was before. Until we have some level of herd immunity, the vaccine is now just another layer of protection against COVID-19.”

In order for us to reach   herd immunity , 50% to 80% of the population will need to be vaccinated. And since it will take time to ramp up production and distribution of the vaccines, Dr. Englund urges folks to manage their expectations about a quick return to normal.

There is, however, some good news for those who are already fully vaccinated, but there are stipulations. The CDC says   fully vaccinated people   can now safely gather indoors, in small gatherings with other people who are fully vaccinated – no mask required. But it’s important to note that fully vaccinated people should continue to wear face masks and maintain physical distance while in public spaces. Those who are fully vaccinated should also continue to avoid medium and large gatherings and those who are not vaccinated and considered high-risk.

“The vaccines are certainly a step in the right direction – and a reason to celebrate – but we’re not out of the woods yet,” she says.  

5 reasons to still wear a face mask after you’ve been vaccinated

Here, Dr. Englund explains why it’s important for those who have already been vaccinated to continue wearing a mask:

  1. It takes time for the vaccine to kick in.   You won’t reach the nearly 95% effectiveness rate until two weeks after your second-dose of the Pfizer or Moderna vaccine. After the first dose, you do get a partial immune response, which is good news, but it doesn’t mean you’re immediately protected the minute the needle goes in your arm. For the Johnson & Johnson vaccine, you’re considered fully vaccinated two weeks after your single dose.
  2. The vaccines do not provide 100% protection.   Although the vaccines are incredibly effective (and were nothing short of amazing in terms of turnaround), they only offer 94% to 95% protection. There’s no way to tell who the 5% will be who don’t respond to the vaccine and will still be at risk for COVID-19. In comparison, the   measles vaccine   is 97% effective after two doses. The vaccination program began in the U.S. in 1963, but the disease wasn’t considered   eliminated   until 2000!
  3. Those who have been vaccinated might be asymptomatic spreaders.   The vaccines prevent illness, but more research is needed to determine if the vaccines also prevent transmission. Experts are concerned that vaccinated people can still become infected without symptoms and then spread it to others who have not been vaccinated yet. Since the pandemic unfolded nearly a year ago, experts have worried about silent spreaders, aka those who are infected but don’t show symptoms. If vaccinated people don’t continue to wear a face mask until more people are considered fully vaccinated, they could cause the virus to keep circulating. Getting vaccinated means you’re much less likely to get sick and develop symptoms yourself, so it’s critical that we protect others while   they wait for their turn to receive the vaccine .
  4. We still need to protect those with compromised immune systems and those who can’t be vaccinated.   We know that people with   chronic medical conditions   (like heart disease and cancer) are at risk for developing a severe case of COVID-19. And since this population wasn’t involved in clinical trials, we can’t assume that they’ll have the same effectiveness rate. It’s also recommended that if you’ve had an   allergic reaction   to any of the ingredients in the vaccine, you shouldn’t get it. If you had an allergic reaction to the first dose, the CDC doesn’t recommend getting the second dose either. Some   pregnant women   (who are also considered high risk and weren’t included in clinical trials) are opting out of getting vaccinated or choosing to be vaccinated after they give birth. If you’re fully vaccinated, it’s recommended to steer clear of those considered high-risk who are not vaccinated.
  5. There are still limited doses of the vaccine.   There are more than 330 million people in the U.S. Experts say that 50 to 80% of the population will need to vaccinated to reach herd immunity, which could take us until the end of 2021.

The vaccine is not an automatic off switch for the pandemic

As much as we’d all like to hope that the vaccine means an instant return to normal – it’s not. But we   are   on the right track.

Instead, it’s now one tool in our kit of resources to fight the pandemic. We’ll need to continue universal masking when in public, hand washing, avoiding large crowds and keep physical distance when we’re around others who are not fully vaccinated.

“We may see mask guidelines start to change after enough people have been vaccinated and cases and deaths have dropped,” says Dr. Englund. “But until then, we must remain vigilant in our fight to control COVID-19.”

 
 
 
Split Personality
PhD Principal
4.1  Split Personality  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @4    4 weeks ago
First of all, I watched the video and I have to say that Rand Paul is a bully.

And that appears to be what certain people are applauding.  A public venting, talking over the "guest" and being just plain rude.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
4.1.1  CB   replied to  Split Personality @4.1    4 weeks ago

Dr. Rand Paul is openly displaying contempt for Dr. Fauci. And it is not the first time doing so. The whole committee request for Dr. Fauci to appear could be suspect and called into question.  Dr. Fauci should be called in to answer questions. He should not be disrespected, humiliated, or 'steamrolled' by a politician over his decades-long acquired virological expertise.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
4.1.2  Kavika   replied to  Split Personality @4.1    4 weeks ago

He's a bully when behind a desk but I doubt if he is in his own yard. LOL

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Masters Guide
4.1.3  Thrawn 31  replied to  Kavika @4.1.2    4 weeks ago

Lol oh yeah, didn’t he get his ass beat a little while back? Lol fuck Rand Paul.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
4.1.4  sandy-2021492  replied to  Kavika @4.1.2    4 weeks ago

Well, he tries to be, but he gets his ass kicked.

 
 
 
bbl-1
PhD Quiet
4.1.5  bbl-1  replied to  Kavika @4.1.2    4 weeks ago

Tussle Top won't go outside if his neighbor is home. 

 
 
 
cjcold
PhD Quiet
4.1.6  cjcold  replied to  bbl-1 @4.1.5    4 weeks ago

Thankfully, my nearest neighbor lives over a mile away and I don't like him.

 
 
 
MAGA
Senior Guide
4.1.7  MAGA  replied to  Kavika @4.1.2    4 weeks ago

That’s ridiculous.  The left celebrate what happened to him in his own yard and as he and his wife crossed a street from the White House to their hotel at the hands of their fellow far left travelers. 

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
4.1.8  sandy-2021492  replied to  MAGA @4.1.7    4 weeks ago

No, but some of us are pretty amused that he got his ass kicked for trashing his neighbor's yard.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Participates
4.1.9  Sean Treacy  replied to  sandy-2021492 @4.1.8    4 weeks ago

Yeah, unprovoked sneak attacks are hilarious! Imagine how funny it would be if someone tackled you from behind, broke your ribs and damaged a  lung so bad part of it had to be removed  without you knowing you were going to be assaulted!

Funny stuff!  

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
4.1.10  sandy-2021492  replied to  Sean Treacy @4.1.9    4 weeks ago
unprovoked

Trashing the neighbor's yard was the provocation.  Keep up.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Participates
4.1.11  Sean Treacy  replied to  sandy-2021492 @4.1.10    4 weeks ago

Sure.  Always okay to sneak up and assault someone  on a lawnmower over landscaping. 

If grass clippings don't justify blindsiding someone and causing part of their lung to be removed, nothing does. 

[deleted]

 

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Masters Guide
4.1.12  Thrawn 31  replied to  MAGA @4.1.7    4 weeks ago

I just thinks it’s funny that get got his ass kicked, do t much care by who or why. 

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Masters Guide
4.1.13  Thrawn 31  replied to  Sean Treacy @4.1.11    4 weeks ago

Lol stop trying to make any of us feel bad for Rand Paul. 

 
 
 
Tacos!
PhD Expert
4.2  Tacos!  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @4    4 weeks ago

1. I don’t think anyone is suggesting a vaccinated person go maskless the moment they get vaccinated.

2. No vaccine is 100%, but the mRNA vaccines are more effective than pretty much any vaccine we usually see. Flu shots wish they were anywhere near as effective. There is ample justification for confidence in the face of these vaccines. Furthermore, we have heard over and over about herd immunity and the percentages of coverage needed to achieve it. If all - or almost all - people get vaccinated, we will be in fantastic shape. Or at least, that’s what we were always told. Now, the message is we may never be ok.

3. Or they may not be asymptomatic spreaders. “May” without anything else in support is useless. There really is no particular reason to think they would be spreaders. Why would they be if the virus cannot replicate itself within the host?

4. Between self-protection and a vaccinated populace, such people should be fine.

5. There’s no evidence vaccinated people contribute to the spread of the disease. Most forecasts show the vast majority of the adult US population being vaccinated long before “end of 2021.” 

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
4.2.1  CB   replied to  Tacos! @4.2    4 weeks ago
[W]e have heard over and over about herd immunity and the percentages of coverage needed to achieve it. If all - or almost all - people get vaccinated, we will be in fantastic shape.

Some conservatives are arguing not to participate in vaccination protocols. You are aware of this news, yes or no?

Some conservatives not vaccinated will (as a result) participate in the prolong and lingering effects of the Coronovirus and its variant mutations popping up well pass 'vaccination end.'  The variant forms of coronvirus will be the new NOVEL CORONVIRU S.

Or they may not be asymptomatic spreaders. “May” without anything else in support is useless. There really is no particular reason to think they would be spreaders. Why would they be if the virus cannot replicate itself within the host?

Actually, and this is relevant and significant, it is Dr. Fauci who delivered an opinion on asymptomatic vaccinated spreaders (if time reveals such people):

Health officials from Dr. Anthony Fauci on down are cautioning people that no one can dump the the face masks and social distancing behavior just because they’ve been vaccinated.

That’s because even people who are themselves immune to the virus might be exposed to it and transmit it to others. It can grow in the nose, says Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases.

“It’s possible that someone could get the vaccine but could still be an asymptomatic carrier,” said CNN Medical Analyst Dr. Leana Wen, an emergency physician. “They may not show symptoms, but they have the virus in their nasal passagew ay so that if they’re speaking, breathing, sneezing and so on, they can still transmit it to others.”

Given these unanswered questions, the CDC says vaccinated people should still use “all the tools available to us” to stop the pandemic, including wearing a mask and staying at least 6 feet away from others.

But, here we see a trained eye doctor arguing with a trained virologist (several indirectly - NIH and CDC) over the proper way to manage a pandemic! Go figure.

 
 
 
Tacos!
PhD Expert
4.2.2  Tacos!  replied to  CB @4.2.1    4 weeks ago
Some conservatives are arguing not to participate in vaccination protocols. You are aware of this news, yes or no?

Oh yes. I’m also aware of some liberals who will not get the vaccine. In fact, our current president and Vice President campaigned for their positions by giving people the impression that the vaccines were either ineffective or unsafe. They are probably responsible for many people who won’t get the vaccine.

And yes, I know the president has now been vaccinated, but so what? When you hear a story in the news, do you forget the story even if there is a retraction? Many don’t. Many are not even aware of the retraction.

That’s because even people who are themselves immune to the virus might be exposed to it and transmit it to others. It can grow in the nose, says Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases.

We know that people who did not show symptoms could transmit the disease, although it turned out they did so less effectively. They were immune to the viruses debilitating symptoms, but not to its infection or spread. That was before.

Now, we are now talking about vaccinated people or previously infected people where there are antibodies already in the body preventing reproduction of the virus. That’s different.

Even without a vaccine, we have always been told that natural herd immunity via most of the populous being infected, would ultimately stop the spread of disease. Vaccines speed that process up while requiring far less people to get sick.

“It’s possible that someone could get the vaccine but could still be an asymptomatic carrier,”

This is no better than saying “may” as I pointed out earlier. Until there is science demonstrating the truth one way or the other, you can say anything is “possible.” That doesn’t make it likely. And everything we know about disease and vaccines - even at the level of your average layperson - tells us it’s unlikely. Again: This is why people get vaccines. It prevents the spread and infection of disease. It’s ridiculous at this stage to act like that isn’t true.

 
 
 
MAGA
Senior Guide
4.2.3  MAGA  replied to  Tacos! @4.2    4 weeks ago

I’m now 4 weeks past my 1st Pfizer shot and a week post 2nd shot and should be fine to be maskless.  

 
 
 
Tacos!
PhD Expert
4.2.4  Tacos!  replied to  MAGA @4.2.3    4 weeks ago

It certainly seems like a reasonable assumption, doesn’t it?

Isn’t it funny how if you’re anti-vaccines, you’re anti-science (I tend to agree) but if you put faith in vaccines, you’re now also anti-science.

Not that there is any science here to point to. We have a scientist, not science. People want to put their faith in the scientist for what seem like political reasons. It gives government license to boss us around a little while longer. Some people seem to crave that - especially if it’s a political party they happen to like.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
4.2.5  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Tacos! @4.2.4    4 weeks ago

Except that I posted an article from the Cleveland Clinic which are hundreds of doctors across all disciplines, who actually diagnosed and cure diseases that no one else can deal with, and they agree with Dr. Fuchi. 

 
 
 
Split Personality
PhD Principal
4.2.6  Split Personality  replied to  Tacos! @4.2    4 weeks ago
1. I don’t think anyone is suggesting a vaccinated person go maskless the moment they get vaccinated.

I don't think you can interpret Rand Paul's comments any other way.

 
 
 
bbl-1
PhD Quiet
4.2.7  bbl-1  replied to  Split Personality @4.2.6    4 weeks ago

It is probable that ( think ) is the key word here.

 
 
 
Tacos!
PhD Expert
4.2.8  Tacos!  replied to  Split Personality @4.2.6    4 weeks ago

Why do you think that? Did he say something about not waiting for the vaccine to take effect? Did he say something about throwing away your mask the day you get the shot?

 
 
 
Tacos!
PhD Expert
4.2.9  Tacos!  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @4.2.5    4 weeks ago

Yes. I responded to it. I'm not strongly persuaded by a bunch of doctors agreeing with some other doctor on an opinion not based on data. 

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
4.2.10  CB   replied to  Tacos! @4.2.2    4 weeks ago
Oh yes. I’m also aware of some liberals who will not get the vaccine. In fact, our current president and Vice President campaigned for their positions by giving people the impression that the vaccines were either ineffective or unsafe. They are probably responsible for many people who won’t get the vaccine. And yes, I know the president has now been vaccinated, but so what? When you hear a story in the news, do you forget the story even if there is a retraction? Many don’t. Many are not even aware of the retraction.

The "H" that is. Prove that if you can. And if and when you do, prove that anyone of us is above changing an opinion. But first, prove that in red above, . . .please.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
4.2.11  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Tacos! @4.2.9    4 weeks ago

What is the data you are looking for? Please be specific.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
4.2.12  CB   replied to  Tacos! @4.2.2    4 weeks ago
We know that people who did not show symptoms could transmit the disease, although it turned out they did so less effectively. They were immune to the viruses debilitating symptoms, but not to its infection or spread. That was before.

Please address this: Why are you speaking in past tense? Dr. Fauci and Dr. Wen are speaking in future tense. What does it help your cause to change the tense of their words?

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
4.2.13  CB   replied to  Tacos! @4.2.2    4 weeks ago
Now, we are now talking about vaccinated people or previously infected people where there are antibodies already in the body preventing reproduction of the virus. That’s different.

You're mistaken. The 'track' Dr. Fauci and Dr. Wen are on is continued mask-wearing for the safety of others. That is, a VACCINATED face without a mask on it can be subjected to inhaling virus particles, nesting those viruses, and releasing those virus elements in a multiplicity of means in close proximity to other unvaccinated (aka, "noncompliant") persons.

Thus, the thinking goes, vaccinated people should have a care for other people who for any medical, allergic, or "hard-headed" reason can't or won't willingly take the shot dose/s.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
4.2.14  CB   replied to  Tacos! @4.2.2    4 weeks ago
Even without a vaccine, we have always been told that natural herd immunity via most of the populous being infected, would ultimately stop the spread of disease. Vaccines speed that process up while requiring far less people to get sick.

So at the end of the day, are some conservatives willing to be volunteers for infection?

 
 
 
Tacos!
PhD Expert
4.2.15  Tacos!  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @4.2.11    4 weeks ago
What is the data you are looking for? Please be specific.

Data that shows the current vaccines are ineffective against variants; data that shows we can't quickly make a vaccine for a variant if we need to; data that shows an infected and recovered person transmits the virus some long time after recovery; data that shows a vaccinated person transmits the virus after the vaccine has had time to take full effect; and data that shows these things happen to a significant degree such that we should keep up the same kind of precautions we have been, even into 2022, as was suggested in the conversation between Paul and Fauci. 

 
 
 
Tacos!
PhD Expert
4.2.16  Tacos!  replied to  CB @4.2.12    4 weeks ago
Why are you speaking in past tense? Dr. Fauci and Dr. Wen are speaking in future tense. What does it help your cause to change the tense of their words?

I explained this already. The focus in the past was on infected people who showed no symptoms but nevertheless spread the virus. They could spread it because they were infected. It just didn't make them sick.

The situation has changed in the present. Now, we are talking about people who either have natural antibodies or vaccines, which prevent replication of the virus. Logically, that means it should be more difficult, if not impossible for such people to spread the virus. It's a totally different situation. There is no data showing that these latter groups spread the virus - at least none that I have heard about.

So the doctors are referencing a past situation and saying it is also fact for the future, but the circumstances are different. The distinction is critical.

 
 
 
Tacos!
PhD Expert
4.2.17  Tacos!  replied to  CB @4.2.10    4 weeks ago
Prove that if you can.

Biden, Seizing on Worries of a Rushed Vaccine, Warns Trump Can’t Be Trusted

Both Biden and Harris are quoted in the story. They parse their words carefully, but the thrust is that any vaccine the Trump administration endorses can't be trusted. They deliberately sowed doubt about the vaccines, playing and the nervousness that people already have about these things, and they did it to get elected. 

Furthermore, the governors of both New York and California declared that they did not trust the federal government to approve a vaccine and implement their own state reviews.

Anti-Vaxxers Feed Off Democrats' Skepticism of COVID Vaccine

All of this played off of the false implication that approval of the vaccine would come from Trump, and not from the FDA. There was never a reason to believe this, but they spread panic on this point regardless. A few months later, don't be surprised that some liberals might not want a vaccine produced while Trump was in office.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
4.2.18  CB   replied to  Tacos! @4.2.2    4 weeks ago
This is no better than saying “may” as I pointed out earlier. Until there is science demonstrating the truth one way or the other, you can say anything is “possible.”

We can use our collective commonsense and not lead with our 'chins.'  Afterall, we led with our chins and got cold-cocked by COVID-19 in 2020!

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
4.2.19  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Tacos! @4.2.15    4 weeks ago

The facts are the following. No one at this point can make a case either way and that means both Rand Paul and Dr. Fauchi, since there can't be a long-term study at this point. What Dr, Fauchi is saying is based on past experiences with RNA viruses. It is a precaution to make sure that we don't lose the headway that we have made. Rand Paul's is that he thinks, feels that the masks are no longer needed.

The guidelines on the vaccination seem to be reasonable given that I have no desire to possibly go backward. The vaccinated can be unmasked together and we can wait a little longer until we reach herd immunity. Hopefully, in time we will have the studies we need to make any further adjustments. 

 
 
 
321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu
Sophomore Principal
4.2.20  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu   replied to  Tacos! @4.2.16    4 weeks ago
The distinction is critical.

Tacos!,  I agree, The distinction is critical.

Forgetting the numerical data for a just second. This pandemic is spread by humans to humans so human behaviour plays a part in its spread and its demise.

When people don't want to wear a mask in a public business that requires a mask by law and the pandemic is not at least well under control How and who is going to determine which people are legally safe to not be wearing a mask ? 

I agree that as soon as it is safe for the society at large that no mandates should be issued or enforced because so many in our society have so little self responsibility that if a mandate is still necessary it needs to be applied to all.

I further think that not many people would understand, buy this view or even care. So perhaps that's why it's so hard for it to be discussed in a hostile forum such as most discussion forums are, especially in politics.

Again, who and how is to determine who is and who isn't eligible to go maskless when mask mandates are still in force ?

Unfortunately the reason mask mandates are even a reality is because so many in our society have so little personal responsibility about themself that we need laws to protect the society at large. The same reason we have so many laws to begin with.

Too much personal irresponsibility in our society.

Enough its deadly.

Who is and Who isn't and Who determines ?   

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
4.2.21  CB   replied to  Tacos! @4.2.4    4 weeks ago
We have a scientist, not science. People want to put their faith in the scientist for what seem like political reasons.

We have trained professionals with microscopes and paid salaries for their experience and seniority. You mock that. And that makes you qualified to mock how again? Try explaining it (again if need be), why should we listen to an EYE doctor's understanding of pandemics over the experienced and seasoned professionals?

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
4.2.22  CB   replied to  Tacos! @4.2.4    4 weeks ago
It gives government license to boss us around a little while longer. Some people seem to crave that - especially if it’s a political party they happen to like.

It is the government that is supervising the vaccine regiments and protocols you are 'enjoying.' And don't try to patronize us, it is a gross waste of digital space. No one cares about attempts at ignorant projections which happen here.

 
 
 
321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu
Sophomore Principal
4.2.23  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu   replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @4.2.19    4 weeks ago

You put it so nicely and easy to understand. ......

LOL .. I'd say a cuss word but let's just say I'm jealous.

loljrSmiley_9_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
MAGA
Senior Guide
4.2.24  MAGA  replied to  CB @4.2.10    4 weeks ago

Some liberals will pass on the Trump vaccine because it is the Trump vaccine.  

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
4.2.25  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  MAGA @4.2.24    4 weeks ago

There is no such thing as the "Trump Vaccine". There are 4 vaccines available worldwide (not counting China's or Russia's), and none were made by Trump. Operation "Warp Speed" which Trump did arrange for, funded 3 out of the 4 vaccines but so did private funds. But the development was only part of the equation and Trump never provided a means to administer the vaccine. 

As for your comment:

Some liberals will pass on the Trump vaccine because it is the Trump vaccine.

The only people that I know that have not taken the vaccine, are some conservatives who are also anti-vaxxers, too. Other than that, everyone I know be it liberal or conservative has gotten their vaccine, so that comment is ridiculous.

 
 
 
321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu
Sophomore Principal
4.2.26  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu   replied to  MAGA @4.2.24    4 weeks ago

Probably so Maga, but many people have short memories. Many understand what you bring up about the BS political nature of it as well. 

But, just as mexico soon became forgotten as the one who would pay for the wall, more "libs" will forget what was said months ago by Biden.

And they'll be in line to get a shot as well.

Some people never will, most will.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
4.2.27  CB   replied to  Tacos! @4.2.16    4 weeks ago

I've 'released' you from further 'debate' on this score. Go in peace.

 
 
 
321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu
Sophomore Principal
4.2.28  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu   replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @4.2.25    4 weeks ago

I think I might as well sit back and just watch.

The master at work.....

LOL jrSmiley_28_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
4.2.29  CB   replied to  Tacos! @4.2.17    4 weeks ago

Wow. I see the problem here full-frontal. That is, plain. You really do not sit in the middle with your views taking in both sides positions. That's a problem.

Biden does not have to like Trump or respect Trump to accept the vaccine packages. "H" - "many people" do not trust Trump. Reason being - and I do not bite my tongue here - President Donald Trump was a dubious liar every day of his presidency. So much so that he was cast-down (with all his millions of fans) from a social media platform—in disgust!

But I digress.

Sep 16, 2020

You can go to here @2:09 Dana Bash of (Donald Trump's dreaded CNN) asking candidate Biden about your concern of not trusting the president. Well, Tacos!, if the shoe fits and Donald is a gross offender who lies then we must convict him of it. Despite what his supporters think. BTW, that Trump supporters enable him to be right when he is discernibly wrong is not something we must support at our turn at the wheel.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
4.2.30  CB   replied to  MAGA @4.2.24    4 weeks ago

Trump vaccine. Well, Geraldo got his wish (as least with Trump supporters). The Moderna/Pfizer/J&J vaccines. . . now then, which one is wearing the brand: Trump?

As in: TRUMP

Go on. . . help me out here.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
4.2.31  CB   replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @4.2.25    4 weeks ago

Ah. . . I am working on a couple of family members who have sworn they won't take the vaccine (and I will have my work cut out for me once I get going in earnest.) No! It has nothing to do with has-been Donald Trump; they just are scared of putting pristine skin on the line and doubt the 'cost' of doing so.

"The struggle continues. . . ."

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.2.32  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @4.2.25    4 weeks ago
There is no such thing as the "Trump Vaccine".

Yes there is and it saved many lives, maybe even mine. It may hurt to admit it, but he got it done when he promised - within one year - despite Dr Fauci's doubts!!!

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
4.2.33  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.2.32    4 weeks ago

Vic, 

The vaccine was made within one year. Then he dropped the ball for a critical two months while he was busy fighting the election and that was time that the vaccine should have been getting out to the people. Furthermore, operation Warp Speed was not for the Oxford vaccine. 

There is no "Trump Vaccine". There was a program that he started. It will save lives. And it is better to have doubts and deliver than to say something will happen, and then it doesn't happen. 

Biden said a million doses in arms in his first 100 days and he delivered way before that. I don't call that the "Biden Plan". 

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Participates
4.2.34  Sean Treacy  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @4.2.33    4 weeks ago
n he dropped the ball for a critical two months while he was busy fighting the election and that was time that the vaccine should have been getting out to the people

Nonsense. By the time he left office, the US was already  administering about a million shots a day, the number  Biden  targeted as an  aggressive goal to achieve for his first 100 days.

The idea that Trump could have personally done something to speed up vaccine production demonstrates a serious lack of understanding of the realities of the powers of the Presidency and the realities of manufacturing. The President is not an omnipotent being who can alter reality by waving a wand and wishing for unlimited vaccines.  Despite the primitive need to attribute events to the sun, or a witch, or a President, the reality, their power to actually change and control entire industries  is severely limited.  

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
4.2.35  Tessylo  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @4.2.33    4 weeks ago

There was no plan either under the former occupant of the White House.  

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
4.2.36  Tessylo  replied to  Sean Treacy @4.2.34    4 weeks ago

PROVE IT!

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
4.2.37  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Sean Treacy @4.2.34    4 weeks ago
Nonsense. By the time he left office, the US was already  administering about a million shots a day, the number  Biden  targeted as an  aggressive goal to achieve for his first 100 days.

As of 20 January, the day Mr Biden became president, about 16.5 million vaccines had been administered in the US,  according to official statistics .https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55721437

How is that a million a day, when it was 60 days till he left office?

The idea that Trump could have personally done something to speed up vaccine production demonstrates a serious lack of understanding of the realities of the powers of the Presidency and the realities of manufacturing.

I never said that. He did turn down a bump up in number of vaccines to buy, which other countries then bought. And stop with the obnoxious posts to me, and actually read what I wrote.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
4.2.38  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Tessylo @4.2.35    4 weeks ago
There was no plan either under the former occupant of the White House.  

Exactly. They had months to figure that out when they knew the vaccine was coming down the pike, and they had no plans on how to distribute them to the states.

 
 
 
devangelical
PhD Principal
4.2.39  devangelical  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @4.2.38    4 weeks ago

they failed to exercise the options on purchasing millions of vaccines months ago.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Participates
4.2.40  Sean Treacy  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @4.2.37    4 weeks ago
How is that a million a day, when it was 60 days till he left office?

I said when he left office.  It ramped up as you would expect.  In fact, in his last week in office , the country averaged over 1,000,000 vaccinations a day. 

urn down a bump up in number of vaccines to buy, 

The problem was not "buying" vaccinations, it was production of vaccinations which has always been the bottleneck. Trump purchased enough vaccination options  to vaccinate the population several times over. 

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Participates
4.2.41  Sean Treacy  replied to  Sean Treacy @4.2.40    4 weeks ago

It's just more of the same lazy narrative that's been driven by the fanatically anti-Trump MSM since the virus was first discovered. Everything Trump did was wrong, while "real leaders" like the EU supposedly conquered the virus.  Turns out that while Trump procured the vaccine for Americans, the EU dawdled, dickered over price, took to long to approve vaccines and now is heading into another lockdown because the EU leadership botched vaccine procurement. 

Best thing England ever did was leave the EU. It's doing as well as America in protecting it's populace. 

 
 
 
MAGA
Senior Guide
4.2.42  MAGA  replied to  Split Personality @4.2.6    4 weeks ago

Well the first shot is working three weeks before the 2nd is administered so if we take his words as you do we are talking post 2nd shot.  

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
4.2.43  CB   replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @4.2.33    4 weeks ago

Perrie, they're "needy." Some conservatives have and continue to step forward to get 'relief' from the coronavirus threat to their personal and familial existences. But, they can't bear being in agreement with a democrat bringing forward "shots into arms." So what do they do? They opt to take on Geraldo Rivera's suggestion back from December 2020 to name (the bloc) of vaccines: "Trump Vaccine."

It is how some conservatives will 'roll' from here on out. 

The real shame, if there is shame to be considered, is Donald Trump likely still would be president if he was not such a stupid, egregious, man. (Argumentation, lying, deceit, and oh the amount of daily 'combat' is what got him, 'Fired!' - above all else.)

And that is why they 'hate' Dr. Fauci. He is a 'hold-over' from the COVID-19 battles with Donald Trump. And they hold him responsible for succeeding with the public where Donald fell out of his 'chair.'

 
 
 
MAGA
Senior Guide
4.2.44  MAGA  replied to  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu @4.2.26    4 weeks ago

I’m a conservative who is anti lock down, not in favor of face diapers, yet wash my hands and socially distance even in Church, yet is pro vaccine and am fully vaccinated. 

 
 
 
MAGA
Senior Guide
4.2.45  MAGA  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.2.32    4 weeks ago

I am vaccinated because of the Trump vaccine!  I saw the emphasis and effort he and his administration put into it and believed him that it was possible. When it was announced and he began the distribution of it I decided that I would get it at the first opportunity. And I did.  I’m still trying to persuade non conservative family members to get it. 

 
 
 
MAGA
Senior Guide
4.2.46  MAGA  replied to  Sean Treacy @4.2.40    4 weeks ago

Exactly on every point! jrSmiley_79_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu
Sophomore Principal
4.2.47  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu   replied to  MAGA @4.2.44    4 weeks ago
I’m a conservative who is anti lock down, not in favor of face diapers,

Maga I don't think there are very many people who are in favor of lockdowns or face masks.

I know I'm not. I'm also not in favor of ignoring problems as when ignored most problems seem to grow. 

This disease has been shown to be spread from human to Human thru the air we all breathe, Unfortunately taking precautions that are available to reduce that transmision are mostly personal responsibility based. 

Also unfortunately many Americans actually lack a great deal in their own personal responsibility. 

That's part of why our unemployment and government assistance programs are so large.

It is also why mandatory mask wearing and mandatory lock downs were needed and issued.  

IF every American citizen was personally responsible for their own actions we never would need half the laws on the books that we do. 

Including the lockdowns and mandatory mask mandates. 

As for mask wearing after vaccination. We discussed that last evening and IMO: Perrie answered that question quite well then. I answered it at that time for you as well. 

jrSmiley_2_smiley_image.png

 
 
 
MAGA
Senior Guide
4.2.48  MAGA  replied to  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu @4.2.47    4 weeks ago

But they weren’t issued everywhere and the places that issued them fared no better or worse than those that did not or fully reopened after 15/30 to curb the spread.  I only wear one at work / church or indoors in a large group.  Never outdoors or where away from work or church I can social distance.  I’m prudent with my diaper but totally identify and relate to the anti maskers.  I’ve never had tolerance for lockdowns and have openly defied those from day one while using other precautions 

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
4.2.49  CB   replied to  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu @4.2.47    4 weeks ago
unfortunately many Americans actually lack a great deal in their own personal responsibility. That's part of why our unemployment and government assistance programs are so large.

Maybe, in part. Another thing that has do to with it; certain sectors of our past and current leadership CURSES poor people of all stripes and some groups in particular, to not advance beyond or to far off a certain financial 'floor.' Thus, the poor amongst us, fight for the scrapes all their lives through. Barely achieving, giving up, clutching (and all the time losing spirit), and "settling into their 'condition'" as the generations slowly ebb and flow by.

 
 
 
Split Personality
PhD Principal
4.2.50  Split Personality  replied to  Sean Treacy @4.2.34    4 weeks ago
Nonsense. By the time he left office, the US was already  administering about a million shots a day, the number  Biden  targeted as an  aggressive goal to achieve for his first 100 days.

Nonsense my ass. The sad part is that someone else posted this to you 6 days ago and you still insist on

"Stretchinnnnnng the truth" a wee bit, "about a million shots a day".

Granted, this was the beginning of the program, but It never averaged a million doses a day in Trumps last 20 days in office.  We did not cross that threshold until 01/23/21

512

Damned statistics...

 
 
 
321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu
Sophomore Principal
4.2.51  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu   replied to  CB @4.2.49    4 weeks ago
Another thing that has do to with it; certain sectors of our past and current leadership CURSES poor people

So true CB,

Wealth distribution in America is also a big problem. As the rich have more that their share to use their wealth to create more wealth and the poor have limited opportunity for advancement. 

And yes personal responsibility always plays a role.

Unfortunately like most, I don't have an easy solution to the wealth distribution problem and my ideas of correcting it are very limited. 

Personally I Have always been kinda spoiled. I've had a decent life always did what I had to do to work and have been personally responsible. AS a result I have lived the benefits that show that personal responsibility.

I don't have a great deal of pity or even a great deal of compassion for people who are not personally responsible. I figure you get what you deserve to a degree.

"If ya want it, go earn it, I did and do." 

I have no problem helping a person who is and has been actually helping themselves however helping people that never help themselves is enabling them to keep doing the same. 

"If ya want it, go earn it, I did and do."

I also belong to neither political party because as you kind of say many political people don't  have  clue either or even care, in fact some probably personally profit form their votes in office.

That's why I research each candidate on my ballots and vote for the people  who most seem to represent my philosophy and hope they negotiate in my representation on issues. 

... LOL Fat chance on that these days once they have power, all bets are off. 

Sad !

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Participates
4.2.52  Sean Treacy  replied to  Split Personality @4.2.50    4 weeks ago

e sad part is that someone else posted this to you 6 days ago and you still insist on

The really sad part is how dishonest your response is. I said, "about" a million shots a day, and your big proof is to a link to a graph showing exactly that.  

Thanks for my making point. 

We did not cross that threshold until 01/23/21

Even if that were true, and Biden's CDC disagrees with you, how in the world do you think that's something to hang you hat on? The average on 1/21 was one over one million a day.   I laugh about how many liberals simply ascribe super powers to control events to the President, but imagine thinking Joe Biden deserves credit for the 7 day rolling average when he was President for about 1 and 1/2 days of it?  It's like  you didn't even think about the point you were trying to make. 

Damned statistic

They do provide a bad look for you. Biden's CDC (if you had bothered to read the link before your silly gotcha attempt) reports a seven day average of 995,000 shots on the day he left office, including 1.5 million on the 20th. 

So your whole claim boils down to whining that I'm stretching the truth because I called a 995,000 average "about a million."  Real good point there. 

 
 
 
321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu
Sophomore Principal
4.2.53  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu   replied to  MAGA @4.2.48    4 weeks ago
But they weren’t issued everywhere and the places that issued them fared no better or worse than those that did not or fully reopened after 15/30 to curb the spread.

Maga I looked and didn't see any  information from any highly respected professional saying that, do you have any links to show that statement ? 

Personally here in Glendale Az we saw our numbers fluctuate with the restrictions.

But Glendale is part of Phoenix and in large cities I wouldn't be surprised if there aren't more personally irresponsible people running around as there are more people overall. 

Some small towns where everyone knows your name may be more considerate of people they meet .. cause they know them.

Here few know each other and many care little for those whom they don't know. 

Arizona is a big state our governor wisely let each county and town determine what was needed in their area. Some Did better than others. 

 

 
 
 
321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu
Sophomore Principal
4.2.54  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu   replied to  MAGA @4.2.48    4 weeks ago
I’ve never had tolerance for lockdowns and have openly defied those from day one

LOL That reminds me of ME when Bosten did the city wide full lockdown over Dzhokhar Tsarnaev for the Boston Marathon bombings.

Here in Phoenix we never really had Lock down for the virus we had government recommended stay at home requests and most food businesses were reduced to take out or delivery services.

Masks were mandated if at all by businesses, cities and counties. 

And we watched our death numbers grow. At one time we had the highest death rate in the world per capita from what I heard. 

We are doing MUCH better now and Governor Ducey recently announced the next phase of COVID-19 mitigation, including lifting occupancy limits but keeping distancing and mask protocols in place. 

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
4.2.55  CB   replied to  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu @4.2.51    4 weeks ago
I don't have a great deal of pity or even a great deal of compassion for people who are not personally responsible. I figure you get what you deserve to a degree. "If ya want it, go earn it, I did and do." 

Hi Steve, here I am writing not about laziness, irresponsibility, or "sloppy lifestyles." Though,  to be clear, some of that derives from a form of demoralized, and dispirited people who generation after generation are so far behind and trapped 'downward'  in every aspect of society that they simply don't know how or where to turn to getting themselves individually or their children out of the poverty spiral!

More to my point, it is "the System" perpetuating poverty. As a means to an end.

We have public policies, states, and politicians existing solely to not advance the poor out of poverty. That is, to hold some group or other in stasis from this nation's past and for its duration.

The thinking goes like this: if low wage workers are paid what they are worth - that is, the amount owners would do the same work(load) for - they simply would look for better! Then, who or what group would be under or at 'the wage floor'?

So what we have is politicians (mainly in red-states oh it's true) who generation after generation slow down progress and keep the status quo for centuries for that entity we call, "The Man."  And, each succeeding generation (of workers) barely make more than the poverty level set by our government. Leading to essential "hand-outs" because well, poor people inevitably fall on hard times (or 'storms of life') and need government to bail them out.

Bottomline. Red state politicians, apparently like it this way. These men and women claw their way over other men and women and promptly 'assume the position' of keeping the status quo alive (below them). They simply don't want everybody to have enough. They want "the system" we have always had and continue to have. The one where there is always some group that can't keep up, because of all the inherent setbacks.

 
 
 
321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu
Sophomore Principal
4.2.56  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu   replied to  CB @4.2.55    4 weeks ago
More to my point, it is "the System" perpetuating poverty. As a means to an end.

I see your point(s) and agree. That "System" needs to be broken.... 

I've been fortunate as I said I was "spoiled" I'm white a man and was born when white privilege wasn't even heard of.    always middle class 

I do and have seen the problems you are outlining from a far and have always known to a degree about the racism and biasness of politics. 

Having not been personally affected by what you are pointing out when I did ithink about that type of problem I kinda of just figured people would eventually vote out the politicians that tried to work the politics toward holding themselves and others down. 

It wasn't till I was older that I started to realize the damage that is and has been done to American politics from most people voting straight party line. By most voting that way bad politicians get and hold office. 

So I stopped voting straight party line and research all the candidates on my ballot then vote for the People that I think best represents my best interests including that they be willing to work across party lines.

IMO: Straight party line voting is how bad politicians take and hold power over us. 

So if people want better politicians perhaps they should vote better to get those results. 

We elect who has power over us. We do not have to elect people who we do not like their policies. 

BUT, Too many people don't care who they elect as long as it's someone in the party they want to have power. Or worse yet ... They don't Vote. 

Of Course that is the reason the republican party it seems is always trying to make it more complicated to vote. many times using the security of the vote as its reasoning as we all know. 

So vote, don't vote party line and Vote those people out. 

Workers always seem to outnumber the employer.

VOTE

Use the system to break "that system" !

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
4.2.57  CB   replied to  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu @4.2.56    4 weeks ago
Straight party line voting is how bad politicians take and hold power over us. So if people want better politicians perhaps they should vote better to get those results. 

Have you observed the nearly unanimous 'bloc' voting the House and Senate Republicans are doing (more often than not)? It's routinely to hold back progress in this country. That is a  problem.

BTW, I have no problem voting for sensible politicians where I find each one, and I can definitely appreciate the type!

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
4.2.58  CB   replied to  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu @4.2.56    4 weeks ago
Of Course that is the reason the republican party it seems is always trying to make it more complicated to vote.

The Republican Party is in its 'predicament' because it pledges itself to be standard-bearer to late 18th and early 19th centuries' constitutional governance. In aligning with that way of looking at this country, they 'justify' (fake) their conduct and treatment of others who achieve successive (progressive) change through a better developed system: Rule of Law. Such folks and politicians 'wax' long about how freedom is meant for White Male Christians and those they extend the aforementioned to.

To that end, the Republicans use the force of the 10th Amendment, . . .

Tenth Amendment to the United States Constitution
Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

to 'plague' Workers, Women, Minorities, and Others out of proper rights and privileges not CONTRACTED - no matter how reasonable, honorable, and morally right - IN THE CONSTITUTIONAL DOCUMENT DIRECTLY.

Of course, such states, their (conservative status quo-ish) representatives and senators relish revisiting and demanding changes to states' policies and laws whenever they wield control in order to claw back anything which liberals accomplish that attempts to leave 1791 era philosophy.

 
 
 
Split Personality
PhD Principal
4.2.59  Split Personality  replied to  Sean Treacy @4.2.52    4 weeks ago
In fact, in his last week in office , the country averaged over 1,000,000 vaccinations a day. 

False, even by your own standard. 995,000 is NOT over a million.  Split the difference and your number goes down to

974,000, not a million; give it all to Biden and it's 952,000  = not a million.

Btw, Trump wrote 73 Pardons on the 19th, announced them at Midnight on the 19th and was done as the POTUS.

The Trumps left the White house at 8AM after firing the Head Butler and excusing the staff to prank the Bidens. 

Class act.

Whatever happened on the 20th, good, catastrophic or indifferent belongs to the next Administration, always has and

always will.

but imagine thinking Joe Biden deserves credit for the 7 day rolling average

I never mentioned Biden or credited him with anything, please comment on what I said,  not what you think I said.

I understand that we will probably disagree on Inauguration Day and which POTUS gets credit or blame for both.

Perhaps everyone should split the difference but I am fairly certain if the stock market crashed at 11:59AM EST

or 9:00AM EST on 01/20/2021 it would have been Biden's fault.

.

Pretty sure that due to your apparent TDS & BDS, you will only see it one way.

Split hair over semantics and get fuzzy about statistics, I don't really care.

Have a great weekend...

No, really.

 
 
 
321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu
Sophomore Principal
4.2.60  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu   replied to  CB @4.2.57    4 weeks ago
I have no problem voting for sensible politicians where I find each one

Agreed !

I find a little more promise in the county and state politicians.  sadly 

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Participates
4.2.61  Sean Treacy  replied to  Split Personality @4.2.59    4 weeks ago
plit hair over semantics and get fuzzy about statistics, I don't really care.

Project much?. 

Let's recap.

You got all atwitter and involved yourself in this discussion  because, per you:

 "The sad part is that someone else posted this to you 6 days ago and you still insist on

"Stretchinnnnnng the truth" a wee bit, "about a million shots a day"."

On Trump's last day in office, the US vaccinated 995,000 plus people.  Let's do math. That's over 99.5% of a million.  

Yet, your whole point is premised on claiming that it's "stretching the truth"  to refer to 99.5% of a million as about a million.  You wander into pardons  and the butler for reason that only you could know, but otherwise have offered nothing but splitting hairs over semantics and fuzzy statistics without having an actual substantive point to make.    Do you think whether a  million  or 99.5% of  a million people were vaccinated makes a lick of difference to the discussion? 

Talk about splitting hairs over semantics. Classic case of Trump TDS like you read about. 

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Masters Participates
4.2.62  Greg Jones  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @4.2.38    4 weeks ago

How do you know that for sure? Once the vaccines left the factories, it was up to the states to figure out how to administer and distribute it. The Federal government can only do so much...

 
 
 
Freewill
Sophomore Participates
4.2.63  Freewill  replied to  Split Personality @4.2.50    4 weeks ago
Damned statistics...

Here are some more from the CDC

The number of doses administered actually exceeded 1 million a day for at least 9 days up to and including January 20, 2021.  The 7-day average of more than a million doses a day administered occurred on 1/21/20.  As if any of that matters one damn bit. 

The trend has been rising at a similar rate from the day the vaccines became available (actually even a bit steeper rate initially), which is to be expected and is a good thing that we should all be focusing on rather than which president gets the credit or the blame. It has begun to level off here recently at about 2.5 million per day. Shall we blame that leveling off on Biden now, or might there actually be other factors that come into play?

This bickering about which president should get credit for successes and which is to blame for failures is just more partisan poppycock.  On something as important as this, we are all on the same team, and the data shows consistent progress.  Why can't we leave it at that and be thankful for all the hard work that thousands of scientists, researchers, and medical experts have put in to create and distribute these vaccines?  They should get the credit, certainly not Trump nor Biden.     

 
 
 
Texan1211
PhD Principal
4.2.64  Texan1211  replied to  Freewill @4.2.63    4 weeks ago

we can't leave it alone because Trump.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
4.2.65  Tessylo  replied to  Split Personality @4.2.50    4 weeks ago

Thanks for the facts, as usual, SP!

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
4.2.66  Tessylo  replied to  Split Personality @4.2.59    4 weeks ago
"The Trumps left the White house at 8AM after firing the Head Butler and excusing the staff to prank the Bidens.  Class act."

That asshole did his goddamned best to just fuck it all up on the way out.  What scum.  The former occupant of the White House is white trash, proved it to us every day.  

 
 
 
321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu
Sophomore Principal
4.2.67  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu   replied to  Freewill @4.2.63    4 weeks ago
a good thing that we should all be focusing on

So True !!

Unfortunately, Good news doesn't sell well. 

I'd say as much or more today than ever before.

Sad.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.2.68  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  MAGA @4.2.45    3 weeks ago
am vaccinated because of the Trump vaccine!

As am I. It is and will always be the Trump vaccine.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
4.2.69  Tessylo  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.2.68    3 weeks ago

162117563_1457741191235622_8982921030066054895_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=E2Og6FPvzkMAX8VhDSM&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=1b77ea421215fb36738db7886a20f600&oe=607DA5A4

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.2.70  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Tessylo @4.2.69    3 weeks ago

It is an anti-intellectual society. In the truest sense.

Do you know how bad it is Tess? 

 If we gave SAT exams to College students the nation would be shocked by the results!

Many of our universities are not educating. They are only indoctrinating. 

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
Professor Expert
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
4.2.72  Tessylo  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.2.70    3 weeks ago

It is not the colleges/universities teachers/professors who are the anti-intellectuals Vic.

There is no indoctrinating going on except at the bible thumper 'colleges' and 'universities'

As far as who the anti-intellectuals are I am referring to, well, my friends will know who I'm referring to jrSmiley_82_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Participates
4.2.73  Sean Treacy  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @4.2.71    3 weeks ago

Ha ha ha

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
Professor Expert
4.2.74  FLYNAVY1  replied to  Sean Treacy @4.2.73    3 weeks ago

Can't open it it, and it's an opinion article anyway..... Ha ha ha...!

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
5  CB     4 weeks ago

The EYE doctor knows these things. He has decided to be the 'physician spoiler' contrarian in this, because it suits his libertarian 'bent' in life. Let Paul fall on his own 'sword' if he must. Lead with his nose and mouth exposed when and where he wills—and hope for the best for him.

But do not be misled or confused, this man is educated well enough to work on eye disorders, he understands what science discipline is and what are its constraints.

Therefore, it is Rand Paul who is playing for an audience here. He insist Dr. Fauci should surrender his reputation before a congressional committee - now, THAT would be theater!

 
 
 
JumpDrive
Freshman Silent
6  JumpDrive    4 weeks ago

As is the case with people like Rand Paul, who want to make a point in an environment of their creation, rather than the environment we’re living in, Paul continuously interrupted Fauci to prevent nullification of his artificial creation. The Senator in charge allowed Fauci to explain free of Paul’s interruptions. Fauci said:

First of all, when you have a variant, you have an immunity that you get what’s convalescent, Sarah, and the same sort of thing if I vaccinate you and me against the wild type, you get a certain level of antibody that’s specific for a particular viral strain. If there’s a circulating variant, you don’t necessarily have it. You have some spillover immunity to be sure, but you diminish by anywhere from two to eight fold the protection. So the point I’m saying is that there variants now circulating. The point that Senator Paul was making was that if you look at wild type only, there is some clear cut credence to what he’s saying, but we are living right now in a situation where we’re having a dominance of 117, which was the original UK. We have a very troublesome variant in New York City of 526. We’ve got two variants in California of 427, 429, and we have a number of others. So we’re not dealing with a static situation of the same virus. That was the only point I’m making.

The unvaccinated and variants run the risk of creating a really dangerous mutation. Some here have said, well, we'll just make more vaccines -- a 'plan' that will likely result in even more deaths. We have expended so much effort to get this under control, that allowing a dangerous mutation to arise is incredibly stupid. Wearing a mask is such a minor thing. The resistance seems to be nothing more that an need to toe the party line; incredibly stupid.

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Masters Guide
7  Thrawn 31    4 weeks ago

So Paul just say their pissing and moaning like a bitch about masks again? Another productive day in the US Senate, the world’s most useless deliberative body, I see.

 
 
 
JumpDrive
Freshman Silent
7.1  JumpDrive  replied to  Thrawn 31 @7    4 weeks ago
their pissing and moaning like a bitch about masks again? Another productive day in the US Senate...

Exactly. Why do conservatives have such a desperate need to attack Fauci? Does this get them points with their base? It's pretty clear they're going to do whatever they want, let the rest of us listen to the experts in peace.

 
 
 
bbl-1
PhD Quiet
7.2  bbl-1  replied to  Thrawn 31 @7    4 weeks ago

The body of the senate is only useless because it has been infiltrated with useless members---------and this is by design.

 
 
 
MAGA
Senior Guide
7.2.1  MAGA  replied to  bbl-1 @7.2    4 weeks ago

We call those useless members democrats and they are that by design

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
7.2.2  CB   replied to  MAGA @7.2.1    4 weeks ago

Mighty Christian! Mighty Christian! Mighty Christian. /sarc

 
 
 
bbl-1
PhD Quiet
7.2.3  bbl-1  replied to  CB @7.2.2    4 weeks ago

FSB.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
7.2.4  CB   replied to  bbl-1 @7.2.3    4 weeks ago
FSB

Oh-oh. I'm going to need some help with the translation, please!

 
 
 
bbl-1
PhD Quiet
7.2.5  bbl-1  replied to  CB @7.2.4    4 weeks ago

Do not install.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
7.2.6  CB   replied to  bbl-1 @7.2.5    4 weeks ago

O-kay. O-day.

 
 
 
dennis smith
Senior Silent
7.3  dennis smith  replied to  Thrawn 31 @7    3 weeks ago

The Senate is led by the most useless person - Pelosi

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
7.3.1  TᵢG  replied to  dennis smith @7.3    3 weeks ago

Pelosi is the Speaker of the House.

I am looking for how your comment is part of some joke but I do not see it.   

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
7.3.2  Trout Giggles  replied to  dennis smith @7.3    3 weeks ago

oh my

 
 
 
dennis smith
Senior Silent
7.3.3  dennis smith  replied to  TᵢG @7.3.1    3 weeks ago

It is a comment, not part of a joke.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
7.3.4  TᵢG  replied to  dennis smith @7.3.3    3 weeks ago
It is a comment, not part of a joke.

In that case:

Pelosi is the Speaker of the House; she is not the Senate Majority Leader.

 
 
 
dennis smith
Senior Silent
7.3.5  dennis smith  replied to  TᵢG @7.3.4    3 weeks ago

My error. As leader of the Dem House she fits the role as useless.

BTW, I feel the same way about both Schumer and McConnell in the Senate as well as Bidet  in the WH.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
8  Tessylo    4 weeks ago

89603007_10219661081891478_1537644179398590464_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=3hWyIg0B2wwAX_k42m-&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=8dd7df86c8b0b6bd77080fce177459dc&oe=607C9725

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
9  Kavika     4 weeks ago

512

 
 
 
bbl-1
PhD Quiet
9.1  bbl-1  replied to  Kavika @9    4 weeks ago

Holy crackers!  A meme of truth for a change.

 
 
 
MAGA
Senior Guide
9.1.1  MAGA  replied to  bbl-1 @9.1    4 weeks ago

When Dr. Fauci sees an a..h... it’s because he’s looking in a mirror.  

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
9.1.2  TᵢG  replied to  MAGA @9.1.1    4 weeks ago

By what reasoning does a Trump supporter deem someone an asshole?   If one considers Fauci an asshole then by any rational assessment Trump is a quintessential asshole.

Given you see being an asshole to be a bad thing, how do you reconcile praising a demonstrably exemplar asshole like Trump?

 
 
 
Freewill
Sophomore Participates
9.1.3  Freewill  replied to  TᵢG @9.1.2    4 weeks ago
By what reasoning does a Trump supporter deem someone an asshole?

I propose a scientific study into the proper measure of assholiness. That is the only way we are going to get to the bottom of this important quantitative quandary ... jrSmiley_82_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
9.1.4  Tessylo  replied to  MAGA @9.1.1    3 weeks ago

Deleted duplicate post - sandy

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
Professor Expert
9.1.5  FLYNAVY1  replied to  Freewill @9.1.3    3 weeks ago

Better be a logarithmic scale to make sure there is enough room to measure the type of assholiness that Trump describes.

 
 
 
321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu
Sophomore Principal
10  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu     4 weeks ago

As less and less people die from covid naturally less and less people will wear a mask. 

The more people who are personally responsible the sooner that will be. 

I look forward to then.  jrSmiley_32_smiley_image.gif

                                                    jrSmiley_32_smiley_image.gif

                                                                          jrSmiley_32_smiley_image.gif

I'm afraid I may be in for a long wait. jrSmiley_78_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
10.1  CB   replied to  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu @10    4 weeks ago

And yet, the "authorities" who get paid to do this kind of work are predicting (as Europe is presently experiencing) a third surge in Coronavirus spread, illnesses, and deaths. Apparently, we have 'combatants' who enjoy throwing their and other people bodies and frames on the 'altar' of freedom (to get sick and die)!

 
 
 
321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu
Sophomore Principal
10.1.1  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu   replied to  CB @10.1    4 weeks ago
Apparently, we have 'combatants' who enjoy throwing their and other people bodies and frames on the 'altar' of freedom (to get sick and die)!

I agree and that's what laws are for. There's always some people who seem to take too much to the extreme. 

It's a shame that we have to have so many laws to begin with but unfortunately many humans are not quite as civilized as we would hope. They still want to put themselves above all else. 

.bing.com/search?q=arrested%20for%20violating%20mask%20order&qs=ds&form=QBRE

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
10.1.2  CB   replied to  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu @10.1.1    4 weeks ago

Some people still want to treat freedom as though it is 'The One Thing.'  Freedom is not the only thing. There is much more that goes into living a life, being a part of a community, and being expressive as a person! First, live a prolonged life, and all sorts of freedoms in this country will play themselves out for an individual in one fashion or another. Specifically, for the people in the majority!

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
Senior Participates
10.1.3  igknorantzrulz  replied to  CB @10.1.2    4 weeks ago
First, live a prolonged life, and all sorts of freedoms in this country will play themselves out for an individual in one fashion or anothe

what, when you die, am i free?, on sale?, cost more ? on the discount rack ?, or  Dead right again....bout being wrong, but mainly when i'm write ting

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Masters Participates
11  Greg Jones    4 weeks ago

The Biden administration and his supporters call for continued mask wearing and distancing, but apparently have no concern about people coming across the border and being released without testing to go anywhere in the USA. Now, they don't even have to promise to show up for a hearing later on.  Isn't this policy a bit insane?

alg031921dAPR20210318094504.jpg

 
 
 
JumpDrive
Freshman Silent
11.1  JumpDrive  replied to  Greg Jones @11    4 weeks ago

False:

In reality, the Biden administration has maintained the same procedures for COVID-19 testing in detention facilities that were in effect during the previous administration.

Nothing in the Biden administration’s policy indicates a break from the standing policy on COVID-19 testing,   Josiah Heyman , director of the Center for Interamerican and Border Studies at the University of Texas at El Paso, told us in a phone interview.

Both U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement and Customs and Border Patrol confirmed to us that no such policies had changed.
 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
Professor Expert
11.1.1  FLYNAVY1  replied to  JumpDrive @11.1    3 weeks ago

What do you expect from someone that thinks every word uttered by Tucker C is the gospel truth JD?

 
 
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