I really don't want to get into a debate on this; but you are oversimplifying things.
1) Palestinians have to get along with each other first. That means the PA and Hamas (and all of the other factions) need to decide and abide by one leader (or governmental body); one set of laws, and one agenda. (Good luck. Might has well ask the Iranian militias and ISIS/ISIL to hug it out).
2) The surrounding countries have to be willing to absorb the Palestinian populations living within their borders. Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Egypt, and Israel must make full citizens of any Palestinians within their countries; with full rights and voting privileges. Even if the Palestinians eventually get their own state it will never be big enough in terms of territory; or stable enough economically; to support all of their population living in other countries.
3) Israel has to allow a viable Palestinian state to exist. There can be no viable state with the way things are now. Which means all Israeli settlements in the West Bank must go. There must be a corridor between the West Bank and Gaza; with free and unrestricted travel for Palestinians between the two. Palestinians must have free and equal access to the Port in Gaza, and to the waters beyond. Israel also needs to work a viable water deal with the Palestinians. Instead of stealing the water from beneath them- and forcing the Palestinians to pay for water from desalination plants operated and owned by Israel. The Palestinian state must have free and unrestricted air space- which means no Israeli military aircraft constantly patrolling it.
4) Jordan is not Palestine; and neither is Syria or Lebanon. None of those countries want the economic, military, or security concerns of being responsible for Palestinians that are at war with each other; and Israel, over whatever land Israel decides to leave them. There is no folding Palestinian land and people into any of those countries.
I was very involved with the Palestinian struggle in the 80's and 90's. I knew several Palestinian exchange students in both high school and college. One of my best friends in college was mostly Palestinian (he was a US citizen with family members in the occupied territories). Did the whole charity drives, donations, and sending of care packages while trying to abide by the ever changing Israeli rules on what goods could be sent; and how they needed to be sent. I was even planning a trip to the occupied lands to meet the families of the people I knew. Luckily I grew out of it in 2000.
The Palestinians are their own worst enemy; and that will never change. Israel will simply continue to confiscate land on the West Bank until they get borders they think they can maintain. They will then force out all of the Palestinians behind their set line into whatever territory remains. Look to the "separation wall" the Israelis are building in the West Bank as to what might remain for a Palestinian state. That is assuming they don't alter it to include more Israeli settlements.
Take into consideration also that BLM supports BDS (an organization devoted to the destruction of Israel) which is why although I am supportive of most of the causes of black people, they can shove their BLM up their asses.
From what I am hearing it is the ultra orthodox Jews causing problems within Israel.
They are ones pushing to have the Palestinians evicted from Jerusalem.
They are also targeting the Kenesit and gradually being voted in so they eventually will be come the majourity.
Their plan is then to bring in the equivalent of Sharia law in Israel??? Not sure what that exactly involves..but stoning cars is certainly up there on the Sabbath..
When I was there the general view of the average Israeli was they hated/disliked the orthodox Jews.
Buzz anyone heard or read similar?? I back the Israelis always have and hope somehow this latest stoush calms down.
Yes we had a demo here to. I think about a hundred rolled up down Melbourne. Did the usual chants, flag burning and were basically ignored... One did get arrested for the flag burning..a middle aged woman old enough to know better.
Think the world has enough on its hands.. without this at the moment..
I have absolutely no love for the ultra-Orthodox myself, and can tell you of some personal experiences for why I feel that way, but then I have no love for radical extremists of ANY religion or kind or in ANY place, and that includes where I am now. However, Shona1, I would like you to read the ACTUAL legal history of the eviction situation that started the whole fracas, and maybe you will discover where the REAL fault lay. I posted this on another article on NT about this issue. The media and most everyone else are always quick to blame Israel for everything.
No must admit I am not particularly fussed with the ultra orthodox either from my experience in Israel with them.
If they get into power then it really will hit the fan over there.but that is exactly what they are planning to do..
Yes it is much the same here, the radicals and ferals always blame Israel for everything..but most of the time with the Palestinians it is self inflicted and then they play the victim..and they do it so well.
Found the normal average everyday Israeli lovely people and that includes many soldiers I spoke to. Often stopped me in the street and asked where I was from and wished me well on my travels..
Felt perfectly safe there even though fighting was going on with Syria at the time... another mob I would not trust as far as I could throw them..
Thanks for the article.. nothing like the truth getting in the way of a good story as they say...hope all well your way as it is here..
Felt perfectly safe there even though fighting was going on with Syria at the time... another mob I would not trust as far as I could throw them..
Well, the ongoing war in Yemen is much, much worse than anything that's happening in Yemen....but much of the politically correct western media doesn't give it much coverage (probably most Americans don't even know these ongoing atrocities don't even exist):
And then there are the horrors of the ongoing horrors of the mass murders by the corrupt gov't in Myanmar. But for some reasons, much of our media prefers to focus on the Arab-Israeli crisis:
But for some reasons, much of our media prefers to focus on the Arab-Israeli crisis:
And of course they obsess over their belief that Israel has too much land (Arab countries shown in green, Israel and the YUGE amount of Arab land they "illegally occupy" shown in red)
And of course they obsess over their belief that Israel has too much land (Arab countries shown in green, Israel and the YUGE amount of Arab land they "illegally occupy" shown in red)
Note: That map only show the 20 or so Arab countries. It does not show all of the 50+ Muslim majority countries (for example, 3 major powers in the region that are not Arab but are Muslim majority countries (enemies of Israel) are Pakistan, Turkey, and Iran-- all large countries as well as military powers.
And then there Indonesia....and ....
Yet many fell that Israel (the entire country is about the size of New Jersey) has too much land...
I just read that and election overseeing committee has determined that there was NO election fraud, a falsehood that was relied upon by the Myanmar military as the excuse for their coup. Do you think they will now reinstate the democratic government?
IMO, where this latest deadly conflict is different than the last two is the part of this war is taking place within Israel between neighbors (Arabs and Jews) this takes the latest conflict to a whole other level. Bibi has said he would use an iron fist to stop the attacks between citizens of Israel.
IMO, where this latest deadly conflict is different than the last two is the part of this war is taking place within Israel between neighbors (Arabs and Jews) this takes the latest conflict to a whole other level. Bibi has said he would use an iron fist to stop the attacks between citizens of Israel.
Netanyahu used to be a much more sensible guy. But in recent years he has not handled things very well.
Netanyahu used to be a much more sensible guy. But in recent years he has not handled things very well.
From my point of view, it seems that Netanyahu was aligned himself with the far-right within Israel. He has not been able to form a government for the last two elections. Is it the right-wing that is keeping him in place, has that become his base?
If that is correct I really don't see any end to the conflict. I'm not excusing Hamas nor Palestine as they bear a huge amount of blame for this but if he is totally aligned with the far-right then if there is ever a minute chance for a settlement from the Palie side it can't happen with the far right in Israel.
As I stated in my above comment, a civil war is brewing inside of Israel, that is the worse thing that could happen.
I have seen reports over the years stating that Netanyahu is a racist who comes from a racist family and I have no reason to doubt it based on how he behaves at times.
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
I was a little taken back by how big this protest was. The overhead helicopter shot by local news appeared to show thousands of protesters.
umm, this YouTube video is from 2014
I guess the more things change the more they stay the same. I didnt loook at the dat on the video because I searched You Tube for "past 24 hours".
Anyway, here is a photo from yesterday
Huge Crowd Marches Through Downtown Chicago In Support Of Palestine (blockclubchicago.org)
No masks of course.
So they support a terrorist organization?
Holy smoke, I actually agree with Greg Jones on something.
I'm beginning to think that possible lingering side effects from being infected by the coronavirus must be either stupidity or insanity.
At the 2:30 - 3:00 mark or so they are walking past the spot where Ferris Buehler sings Twist And Shout in the movie
The only thing stopping the Palestinians from living in an independent, organized, peaceful country of their own, is . . . the Palestinians.
I really don't want to get into a debate on this; but you are oversimplifying things.
1) Palestinians have to get along with each other first. That means the PA and Hamas (and all of the other factions) need to decide and abide by one leader (or governmental body); one set of laws, and one agenda. (Good luck. Might has well ask the Iranian militias and ISIS/ISIL to hug it out).
2) The surrounding countries have to be willing to absorb the Palestinian populations living within their borders. Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Egypt, and Israel must make full citizens of any Palestinians within their countries; with full rights and voting privileges. Even if the Palestinians eventually get their own state it will never be big enough in terms of territory; or stable enough economically; to support all of their population living in other countries.
3) Israel has to allow a viable Palestinian state to exist. There can be no viable state with the way things are now. Which means all Israeli settlements in the West Bank must go. There must be a corridor between the West Bank and Gaza; with free and unrestricted travel for Palestinians between the two. Palestinians must have free and equal access to the Port in Gaza, and to the waters beyond. Israel also needs to work a viable water deal with the Palestinians. Instead of stealing the water from beneath them- and forcing the Palestinians to pay for water from desalination plants operated and owned by Israel. The Palestinian state must have free and unrestricted air space- which means no Israeli military aircraft constantly patrolling it.
4) Jordan is not Palestine; and neither is Syria or Lebanon. None of those countries want the economic, military, or security concerns of being responsible for Palestinians that are at war with each other; and Israel, over whatever land Israel decides to leave them. There is no folding Palestinian land and people into any of those countries.
I was very involved with the Palestinian struggle in the 80's and 90's. I knew several Palestinian exchange students in both high school and college. One of my best friends in college was mostly Palestinian (he was a US citizen with family members in the occupied territories). Did the whole charity drives, donations, and sending of care packages while trying to abide by the ever changing Israeli rules on what goods could be sent; and how they needed to be sent. I was even planning a trip to the occupied lands to meet the families of the people I knew. Luckily I grew out of it in 2000.
The Palestinians are their own worst enemy; and that will never change. Israel will simply continue to confiscate land on the West Bank until they get borders they think they can maintain. They will then force out all of the Palestinians behind their set line into whatever territory remains. Look to the "separation wall" the Israelis are building in the West Bank as to what might remain for a Palestinian state. That is assuming they don't alter it to include more Israeli settlements.
I wish I had your ability to know what is supposed to and what will happen.
The size of the protest isn't that surprising since the Palestinian population of Chicago is 85,000.
Most of the people in the protest do appear to be Arab.
Take into consideration also that BLM supports BDS (an organization devoted to the destruction of Israel) which is why although I am supportive of most of the causes of black people, they can shove their BLM up their asses.
Sad to see once again trouble flaring over there.
From what I am hearing it is the ultra orthodox Jews causing problems within Israel.
They are ones pushing to have the Palestinians evicted from Jerusalem.
They are also targeting the Kenesit and gradually being voted in so they eventually will be come the majourity.
Their plan is then to bring in the equivalent of Sharia law in Israel??? Not sure what that exactly involves..but stoning cars is certainly up there on the Sabbath..
When I was there the general view of the average Israeli was they hated/disliked the orthodox Jews.
Buzz anyone heard or read similar?? I back the Israelis always have and hope somehow this latest stoush calms down.
Yes we had a demo here to. I think about a hundred rolled up down Melbourne. Did the usual chants, flag burning and were basically ignored... One did get arrested for the flag burning..a middle aged woman old enough to know better.
Think the world has enough on its hands.. without this at the moment..
I have absolutely no love for the ultra-Orthodox myself, and can tell you of some personal experiences for why I feel that way, but then I have no love for radical extremists of ANY religion or kind or in ANY place, and that includes where I am now. However, Shona1, I would like you to read the ACTUAL legal history of the eviction situation that started the whole fracas, and maybe you will discover where the REAL fault lay. I posted this on another article on NT about this issue. The media and most everyone else are always quick to blame Israel for everything.
No must admit I am not particularly fussed with the ultra orthodox either from my experience in Israel with them.
If they get into power then it really will hit the fan over there.but that is exactly what they are planning to do..
Yes it is much the same here, the radicals and ferals always blame Israel for everything..but most of the time with the Palestinians it is self inflicted and then they play the victim..and they do it so well.
Found the normal average everyday Israeli lovely people and that includes many soldiers I spoke to. Often stopped me in the street and asked where I was from and wished me well on my travels..
Felt perfectly safe there even though fighting was going on with Syria at the time... another mob I would not trust as far as I could throw them..
Thanks for the article.. nothing like the truth getting in the way of a good story as they say...hope all well your way as it is here..
Well, the ongoing war in Yemen is much, much worse than anything that's happening in Yemen....but much of the politically correct western media doesn't give it much coverage (probably most Americans don't even know these ongoing atrocities don't even exist):
And then there are the horrors of the ongoing horrors of the mass murders by the corrupt gov't in Myanmar. But for some reasons, much of our media prefers to focus on the Arab-Israeli crisis:
Unreported World is on the frontline in Myanmar, where the military has killed hundreds of people after arresting and locking up the country's democratically elected leaders.
And of course they obsess over their belief that Israel has too much land (Arab countries shown in green, Israel and the YUGE amount of Arab land they "illegally occupy" shown in red)
Note: That map only show the 20 or so Arab countries. It does not show all of the 50+ Muslim majority countries (for example, 3 major powers in the region that are not Arab but are Muslim majority countries (enemies of Israel) are Pakistan, Turkey, and Iran-- all large countries as well as military powers.
And then there Indonesia....and ....
Yet many fell that Israel (the entire country is about the size of New Jersey) has too much land...
Why?
I just read that and election overseeing committee has determined that there was NO election fraud, a falsehood that was relied upon by the Myanmar military as the excuse for their coup. Do you think they will now reinstate the democratic government?
IMO, where this latest deadly conflict is different than the last two is the part of this war is taking place within Israel between neighbors (Arabs and Jews) this takes the latest conflict to a whole other level. Bibi has said he would use an iron fist to stop the attacks between citizens of Israel.
Netanyahu used to be a much more sensible guy. But in recent years he has not handled things very well.
From my point of view, it seems that Netanyahu was aligned himself with the far-right within Israel. He has not been able to form a government for the last two elections. Is it the right-wing that is keeping him in place, has that become his base?
If that is correct I really don't see any end to the conflict. I'm not excusing Hamas nor Palestine as they bear a huge amount of blame for this but if he is totally aligned with the far-right then if there is ever a minute chance for a settlement from the Palie side it can't happen with the far right in Israel.
As I stated in my above comment, a civil war is brewing inside of Israel, that is the worse thing that could happen.
JMO
I have seen reports over the years stating that Netanyahu is a racist who comes from a racist family and I have no reason to doubt it based on how he behaves at times.