Idiotic Prager U Video On Slavery

  

Category:  News & Politics

By:  john-russell  •  4 weeks ago  •  67 comments

Idiotic Prager U Video On Slavery


This is one of the more disgusting Prager U videos I've seen.  By the end of the 5 minute animation, the bad guys are modern day Africans. 


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JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1  author  JohnRussell    4 weeks ago

Candace Owens looking radiant in her all white outfit with the white earrings (nice touches) gives a five minute tour of the history of slavery where whites avoid responsibility at every turn . Whites didnt originate slavery, and didnt hunt down slaves in Africa (the slaves were brought to them on the coast by chieftains from the interior) and whats more whites ended slavery and anyway in the modern world slaveowners are mainly Africans. 

Owens also throws in the fact that when Columbus came to the new world the natives here wanted him to help them enslave their enemies. Somehow no mention of Columbus turning the natives into slaves. 

Another thing Owens completely leaves out is that although slavery was not started by white people in North America, they were the ones who made hereditary race based slavery the one and only form of slavery in the United States (after some early experimentation with other forms of forced labor). 

White people in America made the children and grandchildren of African slaves, in Virginia for example, slaves down through the generations. A baby born to a slave was a slave. White people in America made slavery race based. 

Candace Owens says that 300,000 whites died in the Civil War to end slavery.  She doesnt say a word about the 260,000 other whites who died in the Civil War trying to keep slavery going. 

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
1.1  Sean Treacy  replied to  JohnRussell @1    4 weeks ago
. Whites didnt originate slavery, and didnt hunt down slaves in Africa (the slaves were brought to them on the coast by chieftains from the interior) and whats more whites ended slavery and anyway in the modern world slaveowners are mainly Africans.

Spot the lie. 

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
1.1.1  Ozzwald  replied to  Sean Treacy @1.1    4 weeks ago

John Wayne Gacy didn't invent serial killing, so he should be blamed for it either?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1.1.2  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Ozzwald @1.1.1    4 weeks ago

Prager U essentially claims that whites are guilt free when it comes to slavery. 

It is bizarre and uh, whats the word?  ....... divisive. 

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
1.1.3  Ozzwald  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1.2    4 weeks ago
It is bizarre and uh, whats the word?  ....... divisive.

Divisive is a good word.  So is STUPID.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.2  Tessylo  replied to  JohnRussell @1    3 weeks ago

What a lying bitch this know nothing Candace is.  

 
 
 
Lucifer Morningstar
Professor Guide
1.3  Lucifer Morningstar  replied to  JohnRussell @1    3 weeks ago

Facts really fuck up the left wing victimization narrative.  Thankfully there’s somebody out there that can really deliver the reality instead of the fantasy.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1.3.1  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Lucifer Morningstar @1.3    3 weeks ago
Facts really fuck up the left wing victimization narrative.

Let me know when you stumble upon a couple. 

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
1.3.2  CB   replied to  JohnRussell @1.3.1    3 weeks ago

Oooo. That's one 'fiery red head!' staring back. (Chuckles.)

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
1.4  XXJefferson51  replied to  JohnRussell @1    3 weeks ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2  author  JohnRussell    4 weeks ago
What pressed slave owners and others toward a distinctly racial rationalization of slavery was the increasing salience of ideals of Christianity and the Enlightenment, especially the moral equality of all human beings as creatures of God or as possessors of secularly grounded natural rights. In the U.S. the constant invocations of the injustice of tyranny leveled against English rule in the pre-Revolutionary period rendered slavery a troubling contradiction, which slaves themselves recognized. In 1777, for example, a group of slaves petitioned the Massachusetts legislature for freedom, with the following statement as part of their argument: "Every principle from which America has acted in the course of their unhappy difficulties with Great Britain pleads stronger than a thousand arguments in favor of your petitioners."

The slave trade to the United States was abolished in 1808 (a compromise forged at the Constitutional Congress in 1789) , and slavery itself abolished in the various northern states, where it was of marginal economic significance, by the early 19th century.

If all human beings had an equal right to freedom, those of African descent had to be construed as not human for slavery to be justified. To justify permanent and hereditary slavery, as practiced in the slave states, the supposedly subhuman qualities had to be seen as permanent and heritable. The rights in property that played such a strong part in the English natural rights tradition could take precedence over any claim that blacks could stake as human creatures. And these ideas were legitimized and solidified by the contributions of 19th century natural science  .

from

I’m Not a Racist, But...: The Moral Quandry of Race

by Lawrence Blum

Not once in her "history of slavery"  does Candace Owens mention that it was whites in North America who instituted the justification for Africans being held in slavery based on the fact that they werent fully human beings.  THAT was the justification that came to dominate pro slavery thought, that and the belief that the Bible justified slavery of the Africans. 

Prager U completely ignores those facts. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
3  author  JohnRussell    4 weeks ago
1662.gifarrow.gif Virginia enacts a law of hereditary slavery meaning that a child born to an enslaved mother inherits her slave status.
1662 Massachusetts reverses a ruling dating back to 1652 that allowed blacks to train in arms. New York, Connecticut, and New Hampshire pass similar laws restricting the bearing of arms.
1663 In Gloucester County, Virginia, the first documented slave rebellion in the colonies takes place.
1663 Maryland legalizes slavery.
1663 Charles II, King of England, gives the Carolinas to proprietors. Until the 1680s, most settlers in the region are small landowners from Barbados.
1664 New York and New Jersey legalize slavery.
spacer.gif 1664 Maryland is the first colony to take legal action against marriages between white women and black men.
1664 The State of Maryland mandates lifelong servitude for all black slaves. New York, New Jersey, the Carolinas, and Virginia all pass similar laws.
1666 Maryland passes a fugitive slave law.
1667 Virginia declares that Christian baptism will not alter a person's status as a slave.
1668 New Jersey passes a fugitive slave law.
1670 The State of Virginia prohibits free blacks and Indians from keeping Christian (i.e. white) servants.
1674 New York declares that blacks who convert to Christianity after their enslavement will not be freed.
1705.gifarrow.gif The Virginia Slave Code codifies slave status, declaring all non-Christian servants entering the colony to be slaves. It defines all slaves as real estate, acquits masters who kill slaves during punishment, forbids slaves and free colored peoples from physically assaulting white persons, and denies slaves the right to bear arms or move abroad without written permission.
1705 New York declares that punishment by execution will be applied to certain runaway slaves.
1705 Massachusetts makes marriage and sexual relations between blacks and whites illegal.
1706 New York declares blacks, Indians, and slaves who kill white people to be subject to the death penalty.
spacer.gif 1706 Connecticut requires that Indians, mulattos, and black servants gain permission from their masters to engage in trade.
1708 The Southern colonies require militia captains to enlist and train one slave for every white soldier.
1708 Rhode Island requires that slaves be accompanied by their masters when visiting the homes of free persons.
1708 Blacks outnumber whites in South Carolina.
1710 New York forbids blacks, Indians, and mulattos from walking at night without lighted lanterns.
1711 Pennsylvania prohibits the importation of blacks and Indians.
1711 Rhode Island prohibits the clandestine importation of black and Indian slaves.
1712 Pennsylvania prohibits the importation of slaves.

Slavery and the Making of America . Timeline | PBS (thirteen.org)

Which has more credibility,  Prager U or PBS ? 

 
 
 
Hallux
Freshman Principal
3.1  Hallux  replied to  JohnRussell @3    4 weeks ago

The one with the most cartoons.

 
 
 
exexpatnowinTX
Freshman Guide
3.2  exexpatnowinTX  replied to  JohnRussell @3    3 weeks ago
Which has more credibility,  Prager U or PBS ? 

How about this.

1662 Slavery in what was ultimately to become the United States of America.

2021 No slavery in what is the United States of America and in fact the USA is fighting slavery as much as possible globally.

I'm not responsible for what happened then anymore than you are Mr. Russell.  In fact less so as my father migrated here in 1954 and mom, sis and I came in 1955.

I have no guilt for what occurred then, and to be quite honest, neither should you.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
3.2.1  author  JohnRussell  replied to  exexpatnowinTX @3.2    3 weeks ago

I have no personal guilt about slavery, or racism for that matter. I know I am not racist. 

America though, has been a demonstrably racist country for most of its history, and we should acknowledge that and correct it. 

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
3.2.2  CB   replied to  exexpatnowinTX @3.2    3 weeks ago

Then what is your 'problem'?  This might not be about you!

 
 
 
Greg Jones
PhD Expert
4  Greg Jones    4 weeks ago

Another day,  another divisive article about racism

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
4.1  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Greg Jones @4    4 weeks ago

Prager U's fault. 

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Junior Quiet
5  Jack_TX    4 weeks ago
This is one of the more disgusting Prager U videos I've seen.

Is there anything in the video that is actually false?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
5.1  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Jack_TX @5    4 weeks ago

You've heard of sins of omission? 

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Junior Quiet
5.1.1  Jack_TX  replied to  JohnRussell @5.1    4 weeks ago

So in other words the video is completely accurate.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
5.1.2  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Jack_TX @5.1.1    4 weeks ago

That depends on what it is representing itself as. 

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Junior Quiet
5.1.3  Jack_TX  replied to  JohnRussell @5.1.2    4 weeks ago
That depends on what it is representing itself as. 

It really doesn't.

The statements are either accurate or not.  

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
5.1.4  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Jack_TX @5.1.3    4 weeks ago

Believe whatever you like. 

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Junior Quiet
5.1.5  Jack_TX  replied to  JohnRussell @5.1.4    4 weeks ago

Especially when it's true.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
5.1.6  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Jack_TX @5.1.5    4 weeks ago

A lot of pointless assertions are true. 

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Junior Quiet
5.1.7  Jack_TX  replied to  JohnRussell @5.1.6    4 weeks ago

So we've identified that true statements are "disgusting" and offend you.  Well done.

 
 
 
Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom
Professor Guide
5.1.8  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom  replied to  Jack_TX @5.1.7    4 weeks ago
So we've identified that true statements are "disgusting" and offend you.  Well done.

Your comment doesn't make much sense.  Could you please clarify your meaning?  Translation:  Piss off.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
5.1.9  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Jack_TX @5.1.7    4 weeks ago
So we've identified that true statements are "disgusting" and offend you.

You sound desperate. Let it go. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
5.1.10  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Jack_TX @5.1.5    3 weeks ago

The "point" of Candace Owens video is that whites are not to blame for the history of slavery in the United States. She doesnt precisely say that, so that allows you to claim that everything she says is true.  For example she says near the end that there are 700,000 slaves in Africa today, which are two times more than were ever brought to America. Owens is clearly implying that the numbers indicate that the Americans were practicing a less pervasive form of slavery. What Owens does not tell her audience is that after a certain point the American slaveowners did not need to bring in a constant influx of new slaves from Africa, they were being born in America within the slaveowners grasp. In America Negro slavery was hereditary. 

Owens was telling the truth, but was she being honest? NO

Owens makes a point out of saying that white people ended slavery starting in 1833. 

What she doesnt say is that concepts of individual human freedom pre date 1833 by a century or two. She doesnt say that after 1833 American slaveowners continued to claim that blacks are not fully human beings and that their slavery was justified by the Bible. Owens implies that shortly after the Enlightenment period became widespread thought (roughly 1700) whites ended slavery.  What actually happened in the United States was when the concept of individual human freedom became widespread throughout the western world due to the Enlightenment , American slaveowners did not decide to free their slaves, they decided to claim that Africans were not fully human thus not falling under the precepts of individual freedom. Owens video does not mention any of this, and it makes her presentation completely disingenuous even though you say that she is reciting "truth". 

The intention of that video is not sincere, thus negating it's "truth". 

And the white tank top and white jacket she is wearing? Thats the cherry on the top. 

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Junior Quiet
5.1.11  Jack_TX  replied to  JohnRussell @5.1.10    3 weeks ago
The "point" of Candace Owens video is that whites are not to blame for the history of slavery in the United States.

Nah. 

The thing you really object to here is her identifying the inconvenient truth... which is that you don't give a solitary shit about slavery.  If you did, you'd be up in arms about the 700k people currently in bondage and what we as the most powerful nation on earth could and should be doing about it.

No, what you really care about is validating and proselytizing self-loathing white liberal guilt, which is why you only care about people who have been dead for a century and not an iota for people enslaved today.

And the white tank top and white jacket she is wearing? Thats the cherry on the top. 

The wardrobe police??  And you tried to call somebody else desperate??  That's utterly hilarious.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
5.1.12  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Jack_TX @5.1.11    3 weeks ago

I think I and a couple others on this thread have clearly demonstrated that you missed the boat about this video. Your insults also fall flat. Keep trying though. 

 
 
 
exexpatnowinTX
Freshman Guide
5.1.13  exexpatnowinTX  replied to  JohnRussell @5.1.10    3 weeks ago
Owens was telling the truth, but was she being honest? NO

So you would prefer a truthful lie?   

If I didn't read your own words, I never would have thought it possible to be that disingenuous.

 
 
 
Veronica
Junior Guide
5.1.14  Veronica  replied to  Jack_TX @5.1.3    3 weeks ago

She said it is exclusively practised in non-white nations - but she also mentioned sex trafficking as a form of slavery which also happens HERE in the USA.  SO which is it?  Or are we a non-white nation? 

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
Professor Participates
5.2  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Jack_TX @5    4 weeks ago
Is there anything in the video that is actually false?

While most of the video states basic truths no one who has ever studied history are refuting, like whites didn't invent slavery, the video is clearly just Candace giving white folks a hand job telling them they shouldn't feel any guilt because lots of people in the past did bad things. I was surprised at times I couldn't hear her gurgling as she choked down so much white 'praise'. It was the 'pat on the back' goodnight story for young white kids without ever even touching on real American history which includes not only slavery but Jim Crow laws, lynching, segregation, white supremacy, bans on interracial marriage, excluding minorities from many social programs and GI benefits and the continued evidence of systemic racism and inequality within the justice system. It's like a car salesman telling you all about the best features of a used car, the high power engine, how majestic you, the potential white buyer, will look with the top down and the wind blowing in your hair and the awesome stereo system, but conveniently 'forgets' to tell you about the major mechanical work it needs, the fact that dozens of homeless people used it as a toilet when it had been abandoned and that there is still a dead hooker in the trunk. Would you say the car dealer was being honest since he didn't tell any lies?

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Junior Quiet
5.2.1  Jack_TX  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @5.2    4 weeks ago

I don't claim it's impartial. Consider the source.  However, it's not actually false and it's certainly not "disgusting". 

About slavery, Jim Crow laws, segregation, interracial marriage bans, and exclusion from GI benefits...somebody should fix that. 

Oh....wait..... 

It really shouldn't be shocking that people in 2021 do not feel guilty for shit that happened before they were born.  

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
Professor Participates
5.2.2  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Jack_TX @5.2.1    3 weeks ago
It really shouldn't be shocking that people in 2021 do not feel guilty for shit that happened before they were born.

So lets say there is a town in the old west where four ranchers who were blood relatives decided since they had the most collective power in the area they would just rob and kill anyone not of their families with impunity. If a miner struck gold they would ride in, shoot the miner, steal his gold and steal his claim. They made sure all the important jobs in the town were taken by their family members, from the sheriff to the bank manager, anyone not part of their family was discriminated against and could only get the lowest dirtiest manual labor jobs like latrine cleaning and ditch digging. These four ranchers families did this for many decades and built up massive wealth and land ownership, all built on murder, theft and discrimination.

Now 50 years later, after the patriarchs of the family had already died, the Calvary rode into town and set up a fort. The people who had been robbed and the families of those who had been murdered complained to the soldiers and the Captain made a proclamation "No more shall these four ranchers families run rampant in this town, there will be no more killing, robbing and discriminating!". Okay, problem solved, right? Sure, the ranchers still have 95% of the land, mines, wealth and businesses in the town, but they're no longer allowed to rob and murder, so everything is now "equal", right?

The ranchers families continue to be in control of almost every facet of the town, the legacy left them puts them in a position of power even if they're not allowed to rob and murder anymore, but those descendants who are living off the spoils of their ancestors evil should feel no guilt, right? They shouldn't waste even a moment of thought for those who suffered and died at their ancestors hands, right? It's their wealth now no matter how they got it, right?

I'm sure many of those descendants would say "Well it's just to hard to figure out who should get any sort of share of 'our' wealth, it's too hard to figure out what would be a fair repayment to those who my ancestors wronged, so we better just keep all this wealth for ourselves, besides, who knows what those "poor" people would spend it on anyway, probably whiskey and whores...We're really doing them a favor by not giving them any reparations...".

The facts prove that during the times of "slavery, Jim Crow laws, segregation, interracial marriage bans, and exclusion from GI benefits" white Americans built up massive wealth and inheritance for their descendants, and not just monetarily but in education, training and home/land ownership which continues to benefit their descendants to this day. To claim there is nothing owed to the families and descendants of those who were literally murdered and robbed of their livelihoods and dignity by many of our ancestors is to be a blatantly callous bigoted inhumane liar.

Does every white American have a share of that wealth and inheritance? Of course not, many of our ancestors were poor and left us no inheritance other than their skin color, but even that has provided us a more comfortable life and privilege than being born non-white during the last century. Being a poor white American mean you have to work hard to overcome your poverty, but most doors are open to you. I grew up in a very poor white family, when I was 7 or 8 I remember dumpster diving behind local supermarkets in Ohio for produce and other expired food they would discard. But that didn't limit me when I went in for my first job interview at 16, I cleaned up nice and was a trustworthy looking Christian white kid so I got the job and worked hard and rose out of poverty.

Being a poor non-white American means you have to work hard, often even harder than others to overcome your poverty, but then even if you manage to rise up out of poverty many doors are still closed simply based on your skin color. And if you make a mistake, do something stupid, dare to break a law, as a non-white American you're also 3 times more likely to be stopped and searched, twice as likely to serve time for the same crimes and serve longer sentences and be far less likely to be paroled.

Just proclaiming that it's now illegal to discriminate does not end discrimination, and it certainly doesn't do anything to heal the wounds of the centuries long abuse of our fellow Americans. And telling just one side of the story as Candace does above with the clear intent to absolve any white Americans potential feelings of guilt, to whitewash history, is beyond dishonest, it's a continuation of the discrimination and creates a false narrative simply to massage many bigoted white Americans overinflated egos.

I'm not saying I have the answer for creating a truly equal society or know what sort of reparations should be owed, but I do know that whitewashing our history to obfuscate any responsibility we may owe to our fellow Americans is certainly not the answer and simply deepens the divide and pours salt on the wounds of non-white Americans, many of whom are still alive after living through segregation and the continued discrimination and systemic racism so pretending it's all in the past and should simply be forgotten is only something a callous bigot still clinging to the prejudices of their ancestors would desire.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
5.2.3  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @5.2.2    3 weeks ago

I would just add that 75, 100 or even 150 years ago is not that long of a time on a historic basis. 

The last surviving grandchildren of slaves are just now dying off. 

The Grandchildren of Slaves Are Dying | History News Network

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Junior Quiet
5.2.4  Jack_TX  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @5.2.2    3 weeks ago

If we're going to start an intelligent discussion on racial inequality (which you have - thank you) instead of just bleat pathetically about terrible things 200 years ago, we've got to start to actually look at data and believe what it tells us.

We don't want to do that. We'd rather ignore all those pesky facts, because we "feel like" practices that stopped 2 generations ago are somehow still the driving factors.  We understand things like slavery or redlining or Jim Crow because we've seen the 3 minute political video on YouTube or Facebook and we've been told we should feel terrible.  We don't want to consider other data because it interrupts our feelings about Jim Crow.

But here we are 50+ years past the Civil Rights Act.

The median household income for Hispanic families is 20% higher than that of black families.

The poverty rate for black families is 25% higher than that of Hispanic families.

The median household income for Vietnamese families is almost 75% higher than for black families.

The typical black child scores lower than 75% of white children on every standardized test....starting before kindergarten. (Brookings Institute).

Now, if Jim Crow or slavery or redlining were actually the driving issues, we should see all the data point to a narrowing of the gaps as we get farther and farther beyond them.  But we don't.  Ergo...something else is going on.

If discrimination or racism in general were the driving factor, we should not see other minorities who also experience discrimination and who start with similar or far greater disadvantages surpassing black families within a generation or two.  But we do.  Again...something else is going on.

We need to figure out what that is, and in order to do that we need data.

John and I part ways very early in this conversation because he fixates on feeling guilty about things other people's ancestors did, whereas I care about what we can do from here.  Also, I don't give a shit about what we can't change....which includes absolutely everything that happened before now.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
5.2.5  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Jack_TX @5.2.4    3 weeks ago

First of all, this seed was about Candace Owens dishonest video, not about what everyone thinks on racial issues. 

The Prager U video is dishonest, for reasons pointed out here.  You went through a whole rigmarole about how it was "true" therefore presumably ok or some such.  

Her example of 700,000 slaves existing in modern day Africa being twice what was sent to America as part of the historic slave trade is an utterly disingenuous statement for the reason I noted. Many millions of black people were slaves in America, far far exceeding 700,000. Most of them were born here. 

Other things in the video are similarly deceptive. 

As far as Owens wearing all white for the video, if you think that was a coincidence you are naive. 

As part of the residue of Jim Crow , black people were funneled into ghettos. Racial segregation ruled the day virtually across the land. Good jobs left the area. Poverty breeds crime.  And yes, the decline of nuclear family among inner city blacks is a big factor. 

Black people in the inner city havent lived in the poorest part of town for 80 or 90 years becauase they want to. They were stuck there. 

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
5.2.6  Dulay  replied to  Jack_TX @5.2.1    3 weeks ago
Oh....wait..... 

Are you pretending that all of those things have been fixed? 

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Junior Quiet
5.2.7  Jack_TX  replied to  Dulay @5.2.6    3 weeks ago
Are you pretending that all of those things have been fixed? 

Do we still have Jim Crow laws, segregation, interracial marriage bans, and exclusion from GI benefits?

I've not seen a "white's only" bathroom in my lifetime.  

Do tell.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
5.2.8  Dulay  replied to  Jack_TX @5.2.7    3 weeks ago
Do we still have Jim Crow laws,

Ever been to the 'bible belt'? While the laws may not exist, the practice remains. 

segregation,

Yes. 

interracial marriage bans,

Not yet. 

and exclusion from GI benefits?

There are still quite a few alive today who were denied those benfits. That hasn't come near to be 'fixed' yet Jack. 

I've not seen a "white's only" bathroom in my lifetime.  

They were all over the South well into the 60's. Where were you? 

There are still segregated enclaves in this country and to deny that would be obtuse. 

Do tell.

What? 

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
5.2.9  CB   replied to  Dismayed Patriot @5.2.2    3 weeks ago

As Black people, collectively, we had our former overseas history and background stripped from our senses (we know of no tribe from which we hailed). We had more than our dignity taken-we have been in a protracted mental and physical set of battles to engage, protect, and control our own genius . As a people,were whipped and mind manipulated into thinking we really can't learn or be educated (despite the obvious capabilities and demonstrations of natural and learned abilities).

And now for the sake of sitting at the table, Candace Owens abuses its privilege to be among (white) conservatives by not holding to a proper status as "curator" of Black American historical facts.

Candace Owens Farmer experienced racism (according to her Wikipedia page and Ted Talk):

"In 2007, while a 17-year-old senior in high school, Owens said she received three racist death threat voicemail messages, totaling two minutes, from a group of white male classmates. [14] [15] [16] [17] Joshua Starr, the city's superintendent of schools, listened to the voicemail messages and said that they were "horrendous". [17] Owens's family sued the Stamford Board of Education in federal court, alleging that the city did not protect her rights, resulting in a $37,500 settlement in January 2008 . [ 13] [18] She has a TEDx talk on the subject. [19] "

Receiving   from society is how Candace Owens launched her start in 2008, it would seem.

Interestingly, this reminds me of another Black woman who got lost in a muck and fuss of pretense that her color did not matter until it did: Omarosa Manigault Newman, 

Trump, she said she’d concluded after years of defending him, was a bigot.

“I didn’t want to believe it,” she writes. “I rejected what other people said about him because they didn’t know him like I did. I had to go through the pain of witnessing his racism with my own eyes, and hearing it with my own ears, many times, until I couldn’t deny it any longer.”

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
Professor Participates
5.2.10  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Jack_TX @5.2.7    3 weeks ago
Do we still have Jim Crow laws, segregation, interracial marriage bans, and exclusion from GI benefits?

Do you believe the legacy or consequences of Jim Crow laws, segregation, interracial marriage bans and the exclusion from GI benefits or other social programs like inexpensive loan programs for white home buyers have completely vanished or disappeared? Are the benefits from those programs that whites enjoyed magically evaporated? Or is it that you just don't give a shit about inequality now that white leadership "fixed" the glitch?

I guess some white Americans think the systemic inequality will just "work itself out naturally".

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
5.2.11  CB   replied to  Jack_TX @5.2.4    3 weeks ago
Now, if Jim Crow or slavery or redlining were actually the driving issues, we should see all the data point to a narrowing of the gaps as we get farther and farther beyond them

If they did not work so well, why did racists in the majority bother to deploy these strategies in the first place? Racism is a complex beast with many various heads jugging about. Many other groups and races this country has fought wars against: Not so with the Black Americans as a people/group.

May be that is what is necessary to be respected by 'superior' Whites?

Instead, Black America has ordealed with American political shiftiness—for centuries! Incrementally and steadily carving out time and space for Blacks - making steps forward and steps backward all in stride.

And you want to talk about other groups and races that have come here and advanced in our stead, because racists in the majority have been dedicated foes against Black advancement?

Bring it on, Jack_Tx. Let's roll.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
5.2.12  Dulay  replied to  Jack_TX @5.2.4    3 weeks ago
The median household income for Hispanic families is 20% higher than that of black families. The poverty rate for black families is 25% higher than that of Hispanic families.

Perhaps you could help me understand why you are comparing the median income and poverty rates of Hispanics and Blacks? Is your posit that the two groups have comparable historical experiences in the US? 

Also, it would help if you posted links to support your 'data'. 

The median household income for Vietnamese families is almost 75% higher than for black families.

See the question above and apply it. 

The typical black child scores lower than 75% of white children on every standardized test.... starting before kindergarten . (Brookings Institute).

If you are referrencing the data from this study:

It says no such thing. 

If not that study, please provide a link. 

Now, if Jim Crow or slavery or redlining were actually the driving issues, we should see all the data point to a narrowing of the gaps as we get farther and farther beyond them.  But we don't.  Ergo...something else is going on.

First of all, there is abundent evidence that redlining happens all too often to this day. 

Secondly, removing government emposed racial injustice isn't a panacia for generations of oppression. 

If discrimination or racism in general were the driving factor, we should not see other minorities who also experience discrimination and who start with similar or far greater disadvantages surpassing black families within a generation or two.  But we do.  Again...something else is going on.

Please cite which other minorities had 'far greater disadvantages' than enslaved African Americans. Other than Native Americans, no other minority comes even close and I note that you haven't used them in your comparisons, perhaps because THAT data wouldn't bolster your agenda. 

The abolition of slavery didn't 'free' the formerly enslaved from discrmination, starvation, homelessness, poverty or lynching. 

Most left enslavement with only the clothes on their backs. The vast majority were uneducated, illiterate, and on foot without food, shelter or a penny in their pocket. That fact is illustated by the fact that there was very little migration by free blacks after slavery was abolished. The first 'Great Migration' didn't start until about 1920, fully 40 YEARS after the passage of the 13th Amendment. 

So unlike refugees, like the Vietnamese, who receive financial aid, education, medical care, transportation and placement assistance, freed African Americans were left to their own devices in a hostile environment. 

We need to figure out what that is, and in order to do that we need data.

Well if we just start with the factual data that 50 years is only 2 generations, you could extrapilate from there the lack of 'gerational' wealth accumulation. The link I provided above illustrates that income [rather than race] greatly effects educational outcomes.

I'm pretty sure that there is a crap load of data that shows that education greatly effects income potential. 

John and I part ways very early in this conversation because he fixates on feeling guilty about things other people's ancestors did, whereas I care about what we can do from here. 

John has denied your claim. 

Also, I don't give a shit about what we can't change....which includes absolutely everything that happened before now.

“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” 

George Santayana

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Junior Quiet
5.2.13  Jack_TX  replied to  Dulay @5.2.8    3 weeks ago
Ever been to the 'bible belt'? 

I live in Dallas, so yes.  It's pretty clear you haven't been anywhere near the Bible belt for a very long time.  Dallas has a black mayor now.  And black Congressmen.  So does Houston.  So does Atlanta.  And New Orleans.

While the laws may not exist, the practice remains.

Well by all means, do give examples. Where are all these segregated restaurants or buses?

There are still quite a few alive today who were denied those benfits. That hasn't come near to be 'fixed' yet Jack. 

Define "quite a few".  

They were all over the South well into the 60's. Where were you? 

Not born yet.  Which is the point. 

I hate to break this to you, but it's been over 50 years now.  

There are still segregated enclaves in this country and to deny that would be obtuse. 

And yet you fail to identify even one. 

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Junior Quiet
5.2.14  Jack_TX  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @5.2.10    3 weeks ago
Do you believe the legacy or consequences of Jim Crow laws, segregation, interracial marriage bans and the exclusion from GI benefits or other social programs like inexpensive loan programs for white home buyers have completely vanished or disappeared? Are the benefits from those programs that whites enjoyed magically evaporated? Or is it that you just don't give a shit about inequality now that white leadership "fixed" the glitch?

I believe that if you're going to ask the question that way, you lack either the intellectual ability or willingness to discuss the problems objectively and outside of the traditional combative framework that dooms all such conversations, and indeed the future of minorities in this country, to failure. 

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Junior Quiet
5.2.15  Jack_TX  replied to  CB @5.2.11    3 weeks ago
Racism is a complex beast

Absolutely. 

Bring it on, Jack_Tx. Let's roll.

Excellent.

How long are we going to let white liberals talk about Jim Crow before we accept that the complex beast has other, far more nefarious and powerful aspects that are the current primary impediments to black families closing the income and wealth gaps and achieving prosperity?

When are we going to acknowledge nearly 60 years after the Civil Rights Act and 50 years after Affirmative Action, the economic outlook for black families has hardly improved at all?  When are we going to ask why that is and start looking at the situation objectively like a current problem instead of a lingering ghost of generations past?

White liberals LOVE to talk about things like slavery and Jim Crow.  It enables them to enjoy a sense of moral superiority without actually having to think about complex beasts of problems.  Problems like slavery, segregation, or redlining are wonderful, because they require no action.  It's much easier to bask in the glory of past accomplishments than it is to acknowledge and address current problems.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
5.2.16  CB   replied to  Jack_TX @5.2.15    3 weeks ago

How about the current portrayal of problems in Georgia? The "People of Color" class in Georgia sign up using the official state voting policies, and choose the candidate of their choice and lo and be behold, all of the sudden: "Jim Crow" —South shows up inbackroom politics.

Donald, begins 'massaging' the Georgia Secretary of State, proceeds to accusing Fulton County (People of Color), tries to dazzle Secretary of State-Georgia with bull patty, and the 'Squeeze' begins in earnest:  (NOTE: Keep in the front of your mind that none of this exchange was supposed to be for public consumption.)

Full Phone Call: Trump Pressures Georgia Secretary of State To Recount Election Votes | NBC News

It's and old trick, Blacks and "People of Color" get treated to it in lot by condescending Whites. (Oh, and if you don't see thought the exchanges the president at the time is lying through his big damn teeth.) We, Blacks and people of color were not intended to listen to white men/republican/conservatives 'insider' talk about f-ing the blacks and others out of their voting rights and privileges.

Please proceed in telling me I'm mistaken and what is old is not new in the head of a republican, conservative President in control of this country in 2020.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
5.2.17  CB   replied to  CB @5.2.16    3 weeks ago

One more thing: Candace Owens, must have heard about this recording. It damn well was accessible to her and that one @6 below. And yet, both of these black Americans can't bother to see that 'dick' named Trump tried to pull some version of, 1857 Chief Justice Roger Taney's Dred Scott Decision opinion: 'Blacks have no rights which the white man was bound to respect.' By going behind our backs and attempting to nullify Blacks and Others votes!

And, where is the conservative political outrage or the black conservative outrage? Donald was caught 'white privileged'-handed and he is yet the 'strongman' in the conservative party; visited by sitting members of congress and sitting members of states.

Please Jack_Tx come back!

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
5.2.18  Dulay  replied to  Jack_TX @5.2.13    3 weeks ago
I live in Dallas, so yes.  It's pretty clear you haven't been anywhere near the Bible belt for a very long time. 

You're so right Jack, UNLESS you count TN, KY, LA, AL and WV in the last 6 years. 

Dallas has a black mayor now.  And black Congressmen.  So does Houston.  So does Atlanta.  And New Orleans.

jrSmiley_84_smiley_image.gif

There was far more AA representation than that in the 'bible belt' in the mid to late 1800s. 

Well by all means, do give examples. Well by all means, do give examples. Where are all these segregated restaurants or buses?

Buses weren't segregated per se. 

Define "quite a few". 

One is enough for me, obviously you disagree. 

Not born yet.  Which is the point. 

So you lack any personal first hand experience of this topic. Got ya.

I hate to break this to you, but it's been over 50 years now.  

Again, why pretend that things changed instantly after 1964? After all, you just admitted you have NO first hand experience with any of the events. 

And yet you fail to identify even one. 

There is a KKK enclave not far from me in Osceola, IN. 

Harrison, AR is pretty infamous but they are coming around to modernity slowly but surely. 

There are hoods in cities all over the country that POC avoid for their own safety, deserved or not. 

There are hoods in cities all over the country that white people avoid for their own safety, deserved or not. 

 

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Junior Quiet
5.2.19  Jack_TX  replied to  Dulay @5.2.18    3 weeks ago

So...you have no examples of "whites only" establishments, bathrooms, buses, subways, hospitals....   You're really attempting to say that a black person not getting a table by the window is similar?    Does this somehow later involve water cannons and police dogs?

Again, why pretend that things changed instantly after 1964?

*facepalm*

I'm not sure how to state more clearly that from an economic perspective things have NOT changed substantially since 1964.  That was the entire point.  I don't know how any person with an IQ above 50 doesn't see that.

I'm going to try this one more time because I think you're simply arguing out of reflex because I'm not part of Team Angry Liberal and you expect to disagree with me no matter what I post.

To which of these ideas do you actually object:

  1. Slavery was stopped over 150 years ago.  Jim Crow laws and redlining ceased over 50 years ago.
  2. In that 50 years, the economic needle has hardly moved for black people.  The median wealth difference between white and black households is higher now than it was in 1963.   There are many, many other data points that confirm this and many other socioeconomic gaps....which surely only Tucker Carlson contests by now.
  3. The fact that so little progress has been made in the last 50 years clearly indicates that there are other factors at work.  Otherwise, the income, education, and wealth gaps would be narrowing instead of expanding .
  4. In contrast, Hispanic families, most of whom started later and with fewer resources than black families, are actually closing the wealth gap, and have surpassed black people in a number of socioeconomic indicators.
  5. In order for black families to make any actual progress, we as a nation need to start to identify the remaining barriers and formulate potential solutions to the current problems that still actually exist.

Now...if we'd rather just argue stupid, meaningless stuff from 60 years ago in between watching those lovely Time-Life advertisements for the 16 CD collection of folk music and hitting the early bird special at Luby's, then by all means, let's talk about the KKK and both of its remaining members.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Junior Quiet
5.2.20  Jack_TX  replied to  CB @5.2.16    3 weeks ago

I'm not following anything you're saying here, other than "condescending whites" and "Donald Trump lying", neither of which I would refute.

What are you talking about?

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Junior Quiet
5.2.21  Jack_TX  replied to  CB @5.2.17    3 weeks ago
And, where is the conservative political outrage or the black conservative outrage?

How does "outrage" make your actual life any better in any measurable way?

What's the exchange rate for USD/outrage?  How many outrages do you need to send your electric company to keep your lights on?  Can you finance a car on a 60 month outrage note?

When are we going to stop talking about "feelings" and start talking about how to improve the earning power of black Americans? 

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
5.2.22  CB   replied to  Jack_TX @5.2.20    3 weeks ago

Then, did you listen to the video discussion at great length?  You can speed it up in Youtube Settings, if need be. Then reread my comment. And tell me what you 'hear' in the video. I hear President Donald Trump in the guise of 'concerned citizen-influencer' framing and attempting to persuade the Secretary of State Georgia to collude with him in disenfranchising and 'throwing' a state election in his favor. What do you hear?

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
5.2.23  CB   replied to  Jack_TX @5.2.21    3 weeks ago

Gotcha! Here was you ready moment to condemn Donald Trump for trying to compromise a state secretary of state using the power of his office. And you folded! Everybody witnessed you do a by-pass.

Well, "earning power" didn't help Trump throw an election. And, do not ever equate earning power and greed with integrity. It may prejudice you against truth.

And if black Americans want earning power for earning power sake they can become black Trumps, but that would not make them anymore worthy than white Trumps.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
5.2.24  Dulay  replied to  Jack_TX @5.2.19    3 weeks ago
So...you have no examples of "whites only" establishments

The closest I can come up with off the top of my head is the GOP.

I'm not sure how to state more clearly that from an economic perspective things have NOT changed substantially since 1964. That was the entire point.  I don't know how any person with an IQ above 50 doesn't see that.

You've never even tried to state that posit until now. 

I'm going to try this one more time because I think you're simply arguing out of reflex because I'm not part of Team Angry Liberal and you expect to disagree with me no matter what I post.

Gee Jack, maybe if you would hadn't ignored my 5.2.12 comment, that comment would have some credence. Alas...

To which of these ideas do you actually object:

Again, in my 5.2.12 comment I clearly stated that redlining has NOT ceased. 

The median wealth difference between white and black households is higher now than it was in 1963.

Your own link differentiates income and wealth Jack. 

Oh and BTW, your link also gives some cogent reasons for the growing inequity. 

Otherwise, the income, education, and wealth gaps would be   narrowing   instead of   expanding   .

Again, WHY do you insist that 2 generations of AA families should have achieved the  same level of wealth that it took dozens of generations for white families to achieve?

In contrast, Hispanic families, most of whom started later and with fewer resources than black families, are actually closing the wealth gap, and have surpassed black people in a number of socioeconomic indicators.

WTF are you talking about Jack? Hispanics [actually, Latinx] have been in this country building wealth for hundreds of years. What 'factors' explain THAT wealth gap?  

Oh and your claim that other miniorities had ' similar or far greater disadvantages' than enslaved blacks is still bullshit. 

In order for black families to make any actual progress, we as a nation need to start to identify the remaining barriers and formulate potential solutions to the   current   problems that still actually exist.

 You cite, over and over, these non-descript 'other factors' yet seem to be ignoring the evidence of some of those factors, event in your own link Jack.

It seems to me, based just on the factors cited in your own link, there are some easy solutions, especially when it comes to education and home ownership. 

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
5.2.25  Dulay  replied to  Jack_TX @5.2.21    3 weeks ago
When are we going to stop talking about "feelings" and start talking about how to improve the earning power of black Americans? 

A review of your comments here illustrates that you've failed to cite even one solution. 

Please proceed. 

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
5.2.26  CB   replied to  CB @5.2.23    3 weeks ago

Roger, Jack_TX, — come back.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
5.2.27  CB   replied to  Dulay @5.2.24    3 weeks ago
It seems to me, based just on the factors cited in your own link, there are some easy solutions, especially when it comes to education and home ownership. 

And then there is this:

Black Americans are paying more to own a home and falling further behind

Black Americans pay more than any other group to own a home, a disparity that contributes to roughly half of the $130,000 retirement savings gap between Blacks and Whites, according to new study from MIT.

Black homeowners pay more in mortgage interest, mortgage insurance and property taxes than other homeowners, according to the pape r by Edward Golding, executive director of the MIT Golub Center for Finance and Policy and co-authors, Michelle Aronowitz and Jung Hyun Choi.
Overall, the differences in mortgage interest payments amount to $743 a year, mortgage insurance premiums come to $550 a year and property taxes are about $390 per year. Together, this results in $67,320 in lost retirement savings for Black homeowners when invested over 30 years, according to the paper.
These inequities make it impossible for Black homeowners to build wealth through home ownership at the same rate as White households, said Golding, who was head of the Federal Housing Administration from 2015 to 2017.
"The small differences compounding over the life of the mortgage and during home ownership can add up," Golding said. "Even if it is a few hundred dollars a year here and there, it can amount to another year's salary families would otherwise have."
. . . .

Refinancing opportunities missed

Black households are also missing out on opportunities to refinance their mortgages to lower rates, the report found.
The paper estimates that the lack of refinancing opportunities results in Black homeowners paying another $475 per year more than White homeowners, resulting in a loss of cumulative retirement savings of nearly $20,000.
There are certain impediments to refinancing that disproportionately impact Black homeowners, including a high loan amount compared to the value of the home, low credit scores and employment issues, Golding said. And some lenders are not interested in refinancing lower balance loans because of the fixed costs of refinancing, he added.
Black households are stuck with higher rates as a result, said Golding. "Yet these are the homeowners who we should care about the most and you reduce the risk in the system when you have lower payments."
Of course, those who like to be slick will have their select factoids and miss out on the whole picture of what is happening out there.
 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
6  CB     4 weeks ago

Please consider making a tax deductible donation (because Prager University needs 'dough.')  And there's Candace Owens making a fool out of herself yet again. Nothing about what she says justifies White Slavery, including the fact that White helped to end it.

Yet since she has modeled herself as the "Black Messiah" to Conservatives it seems she has to do something to bring in Blacks to the fold. Candace reminds me of this guy

original

. . . who follows Trump Rally stage back drops like a walking billboard:

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
7  CB     4 weeks ago

And listening to some conservative black fools is why a percentage of so-called, "free thinking" Blacks and other people of color are sick, hospitalized, fighting for their next breath, or grave yard dead! Freedom in some quarters ain't what it's cracked up to be!

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
8  author  JohnRussell    3 weeks ago

another absurd Prager U video on race.  

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
8.1  CB   replied to  JohnRussell @8    3 weeks ago

Viewpoint perspective for NT consideration:

Dear White People Official Trailer #1 (2014) - Comedy HD *

* Not to be confused with Netflix's Dear White People Official Trailers (2017 and continuing).

 
 
 
Split Personality
PhD Principal
9  Split Personality    3 weeks ago

Well I hate to ruin a good thing but Prager U, as pointed out by an MBFC expert, is a banned source.

extremeright051.png?resize=600%2C67&ssl=1MBFCLow.png?resize=357%2C128&ssl=1


QUESTIONABLE SOURCE

Article is locked

 
 
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