The case for vaccine mandates.

  

Category:  Op/Ed

By:  vic-eldred  •  5 days ago  •  20 comments

The case for vaccine mandates.
“We’re going to protect vaccinated workers from unvaccinated coworkers. “We’re going to reduce the spread of Covid-19 by increasing the share of the workforce that is vaccinated in businesses all across America.”

This past week Joe Biden reversed himself on his previous promise to avoid vaccine mandates. It's not an unreasonable thing to do.  The highly contagious delta variant is now killing more than 1,500 Americans every day, according to a CNBC analysis of Johns Hopkins University data. In his recent speech Biden unveiled a 6 point plan.  Biden said “If you want to work with the federal government and do business with us, get vaccinated.” “If you want to do business with the federal government, vaccinate your workforce.” Clearly, Biden is well within his rights when it comes to federal employees and those who interact with the federal government. The question is can he mandate vaccination elsewhere?

There is such precedent:

"In 1901, the city of Boston registered 1,596 confirmed cases of smallpox, a highly contagious, fever-inducing illness infamous for causing a severe rash on the face and arms that often left survivors scarred for life. In Boston alone, 270 people died from smallpox during the extended 1901 to 1903 outbreak. That’s why public health officials in Boston and neighboring Cambridge issued their compulsory vaccination orders, hoping to reach the 90 percent vaccination rate required for herd immunity.

Jacobson, who served as the pastor of a Swedish Lutheran church in Cambridge, had been vaccinated against smallpox in Sweden when he was 6 years old, an experience that  he later said  caused him “great and extreme suffering.” So when Dr. E. Edwin Spencer, chairman of the Cambridge Board of Health, knocked on the Jacobsons’ door on March 15, 1902, the pastor refused vaccination for himself and his son.

A few months later, Cambridge was in a full-fledged smallpox “panic” with the city ordering the closure of all schools, public libraries and churches to stem the spread of the disease. Police officers accompanied health officials like Spencer, who went door to door vaccinating as many as 100 people a day.

But while the Cambridge vaccine order was compulsory, it wasn’t a “forced” vaccination. People like Jacobson who refused to get vaccinated faced a $5 fine, the equivalent of nearly $150 today. On July 17, 1902, Dr. Spencer issued a criminal complaint against Jacobson and other anti-vaccine activists to collect that $5 fine.

The broader battle over the validity of vaccination science reached a fever pitch during the smallpox outbreak. Anti-vaccination groups, citing alleged cases of death and deformity from bad reactions to smallpox vaccine,  called  compulsory vaccination “the greatest crime of the age,” claiming that it “slaughter[s] tens of thousands of innocent children.”

In response, newspaper editorials characterized the smallpox vaccination controversy as “a conflict between intelligence and ignorance, civilization and barbarism.” The  New York Times  dismissed anti-vaccine activists as “a familiar species of cranks” who were “deficient in the power to judge [science].”

It was against this heated backdrop that Jacobson fought his $5 fine, first in a state trial court and then by appeal in the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court. Jacobson wanted to present evidence that vaccines themselves were dangerous and ineffective, but the judges wouldn’t hear it. Instead, Jacobson’s chief argument became, “Compulsion to introduce disease into a healthy system is a violation of liberty,” specifically the personal liberty he believed was guaranteed by the U.S. and Massachusetts constitutions.

The highest court in Massachusetts also rejected Jacobson’s claims, siding instead with the authority of public health officials to determine the best methods for fighting an epidemic. Not ready to give up, Jacobson appealed his case to the U.S. Supreme Court in 1905, where he was accompanied by officers of the Massachusetts Anti-Compulsory Vaccination Association.

In the case known as  Jacobson v. Massachusetts , Jacobson’s lawyers argued that the Cambridge vaccination order was a violation of their client’s 14th Amendment rights, which forbade the state from “depriv[ing] any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law.” At question, then, was whether the “right to refuse vaccination” was among those protected personal liberties.

The Supreme Court rejected Jacobson’s argument and dealt the anti-vaccination movement a stinging loss.  Writing for the majority , Justice John Marshall Harlan acknowledged the fundamental importance of personal freedom, but also recognized that “the rights of the individual in respect of his liberty may at times, under the pressure of great dangers, be subjected to such   restraint, to be enforced by reasonable regulations, as the safety of the general public may demand.”

https://www.history.com/news/smallpox-vaccine-supreme-court

I happen to agree that it is time for mandates. We probably should have done it 3 months ago. We have plenty of vaccines and they are now easy to get. My only concern was the nature of that speech. It was very divisive. It fixed blame and it may actually increase resistance among unvaccinated Americans. The new requirements, which Biden imposed Thursday could affect 100 million American workers.

Pfizer board member and former  FDA  commissioner Scott Gottlieb was on CBS Face the Nation today and warned that the vaccine mandate could end up being counterproductive.

"The downside of this mandate in terms of hardening positions and taking something that was subtly political and making it overtly political could outweigh any of the benefits that we hope to achieve" he said.


The Biden plan includes the following:



Requiring All Employers with 100+ Employees to Ensure their Workers are Vaccinated or Tested Weekly






Requiring Vaccinations for all Federal Workers and for Millions of Contractors that Do Business with the Federal Government









Requiring COVID-⁠19 Vaccinations for Over 17 Million Health Care Workers at Medicare and Medicaid Participating Hospitals and Other Health Care Settings









Calling on Large Entertainment Venues to Require Proof of Vaccination or Testing for Entry









Requiring Employers to Provide Paid Time Off to Get Vaccinated










https://www.whitehouse.gov/covidplan/



 It is subject to legal challenge and it will be challenged.


“Many of us are frustrated with the 80 million Americans who are not vaccinated” Biden said.


It shall be interesting.









 


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Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1  author  Vic Eldred    5 days ago

A public safety issue

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
1.1  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Vic Eldred @1    5 days ago

I have to agree. 

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Principal
1.2  Gordy327  replied to  Vic Eldred @1    5 days ago

That's only the tip of the iceberg too.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
2  Buzz of the Orient    5 days ago

It isn't easy to put the cat back in the bag.  Good luck with the effort.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
2.1  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @2    5 days ago

Actually good news today.

The number of Covid cases are trending down.

Between a million people getting the vaccine daily

The number infected and mask wearing the delta variant is showing signs of burning out.

Let's hope the trend continues into the indoor season.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
2.1.1  Kavika   replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @2.1    5 days ago

Sadly with millions still unvaccinated expect another surge and or a new varient.

 
 
 
Hallux
Freshman Principal
2.1.2  Hallux  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @2.1    5 days ago

I trust you know to ignore weekend numbers.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Senior Principal
3  Nerm_L    5 days ago

Requiring vaccinations isn't that big a deal.  But the results aren't going to be as dramatic as we're being told.

According to CDC data, 380 million doses of vaccine have been administered.  There are 62 million unvaccinated people over age 18.  There are 74 million unvaccinated people over age 12.

The projections all along have been for vaccine coverage of 80 pct of the adult population over age 18.  76 pct of the adult population has been vaccinated with at least one dose.  11 million more adults need to be vaccinated to achieve 80 pct coverage of the over age 18 population.

The numbers aren't adding up.  At the current pace of vaccination those additional 11 million will be vaccinated within two or three weeks without any mandates.  As we are approaching the expected level of vaccination the pandemic has gotten worse.  The CDC data suggests we aren't being told everything. The Biden administration and the medical experts are looking for political cover because the pandemic is not proceeding according to their plans.

IMO there's nothing wrong with requiring vaccination.  But we shouldn't be expecting dramatic results.  The Biden administration hasn't shown any skill at planning; they've been improvising because the plans haven't worked.   Since our healthcare system is so easily overwhelmed, don't be surprise if that condition continues well into next year.  It'll be interesting to see who or what the Biden administration blames next.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
3.1  Krishna  replied to  Nerm_L @3    5 days ago
Requiring vaccinations isn't that big a deal.  But the results aren't going to be as dramatic as we're being told.

WTF?

Actually it is a big deal-- a very big deal! 

I'm not surprised at your comment. But what I am surprised at is how many people fall for your efforts. 

Why? jrSmiley_26_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
3.1.1  Tessylo  replied to  Krishna @3.1    4 days ago

Interesting how some have been fighting vaccine mandates and children wearing masks (because they can't get the vaccine) and should be masking anyway - are now for the vaccines.  Are they for masking now too for kids?

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Senior Principal
3.1.2  Nerm_L  replied to  Krishna @3.1    4 days ago
WTF?

Actually it is a big deal-- a very big deal! 

I'm not surprised at your comment. But what I am surprised at is how many people fall for your efforts. 

No, requiring vaccines isn't that big a deal.  The vaccines are safe, there are choices, and employers impose far more stringent requirements on employees than requiring vaccination.  Unlike mask mandates, a requirement for vaccination can be enforced because there is proof of vaccination.  Mask mandates not only require people to wear masks, it's also necessary to enforce wearing the mask properly.  Someone with their nose hanging out isn't wearing a mask and have violated the mask mandate.  Someone wearing a loose fitting mask isn't wearing a mask properly and have violated the mask mandate.  For mask mandates to be effective it's necessary to train people how to wear masks which hasn't been done.

And we really are approaching the expected level of 80 pct coverage of the adult population (18 and older).  We're currently at 76 pct according to the CDC data.  Vaccinating 11 million more adults reaches the expected coverage of 80 pct.  We aren't that far from projections and expectations the medical experts were talking about when the vaccine rollout began.  People ARE being vaccinated and the pandemic is getting worse.  That's not what we were told to expect.

The age group of age 12 to 17 are lagging in vaccine coverage.  It's younger people who are not vaccinated.  This wave may be a pandemic of the unvaccinated but those unvaccinated are younger.  According to CDC data, 93 pct of the population over age 65 have been vaccinated; that's above Anthony Fauci's projection of 90 pct coverage to achieve herd immunity. 

But, be honest, Joe Biden is imposing vaccine mandates more for political reasons than health reasons.  Biden's Sept. 20 deadline for boosters won't be met.  And for some unfathomable reason, approval for those age 5 to 12 is being slow walked.   Politically Biden has to do something since what we've been told isn't going according to plans and projections.

Requiring vaccination is not going to provide the dramatic results that everyone is expecting.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
3.1.3  Tessylo  replied to  Nerm_L @3.1.2    4 days ago

Your qualifications for stating that nonsense are?

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
3.2  Krishna  replied to  Nerm_L @3    5 days ago

Requiring vaccinations isn't that big a deal.  But the results aren't going to be as dramatic as we're being told.

What a load of total horseshit!

I just seeded an article on that very subject--- can you honestly say that you don't consider this to be dramatic?

Why I Support Vaccine Mandates & Mask Mandates

256

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
3.2.1  Tessylo  replied to  Krishna @3.2    4 days ago

Some folks' comments are so out there - each more out there than the last.  . .

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
3.3  Krishna  replied to  Nerm_L @3    4 days ago
IMO there's nothing wrong with requiring vaccination. 

That's a bit hard to believe...given what you been posting... for months.

(I wonder-- does anyone reading that comment actually believe it to be true?)

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Senior Principal
3.3.1  Nerm_L  replied to  Krishna @3.3    4 days ago
That's a bit hard to believe...given what you been posting... for months. (I wonder-- does anyone reading that comment actually believe it to be true?)

Then you haven't been paying attention.  I'm the guy that posted this:

320320

People, such as yourself, claimed the CDC guidelines mailed to everyone was a political stunt because Trump's name is on it.  Trump is a COVID survivor.  Trump was responsible for making the vaccines available as quickly as possible.  Trump has been vaccinated and has encouraged people to be vaccinated.

But people, such as yourself, couldn't get past Orange Man Bad.  Anything associated with Trump must be disparaged and dismissed.  Including the response to the pandemic.  People, such as yourself, were telling everyone that only Anthony Fauci could be trusted.  Well, we are very close to meeting Anthony Fauci's projections when the vaccine rollout began.  Fauci projected that we wouldn't achieve 80 pct vaccine coverage until this fall, well into the school year.  Fauci projected we couldn't hope for anything like herd immunity before the spring of 2022.  We're actually following Anthony Fauci's projected timeline for the pandemic.  That's what people, such as yourself, wanted.

Where's Joe Biden's Operation Warp Speed for children aged 5 to 11?  We've got the vaccines and we're told we can't use them.  Joe Biden told vaccinated people they could ditch the masks and celebrate the 4th of July.  Look at where we are at today.  Now Joe Biden is telling us that a vaccine mandate will protect the vaccinated from the unvaccinated?  WTF?  Weren't we told the vaccines protect us from the virus?

Joe Biden told us that he had a plan for the pandemic that would be put in place on day one.  And we've been following Joe Biden's plan.  But the pandemic didn't follow the plan; the pandemic has gotten worse.  Much, much worse according to news reporting.  We're back where we were when Joe Biden took office, according to news reporting.  

It's not what I've posted that has gotten us into this spot.  It's what people, such as yourself, have been posting.  

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.3.2  Texan1211  replied to  Krishna @3.3    4 days ago

Why not show us some of the posts you are referring to?

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
3.3.3  Tessylo  replied to  Nerm_L @3.3.1    4 days ago
Trump is a COVID survivor. 

That's too bad.  

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
3.3.4  Tessylo  replied to  Nerm_L @3.3.1    4 days ago
"It's not what I've posted that has gotten us into this spot"   

Nothing but ignorance and nonsense and bullshit?

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
3.4  Tessylo  replied to  Nerm_L @3    4 days ago
"The Biden administration hasn't shown any skill at planning" ????????????????????????????????????????????
"It'll be interesting to see who or what the Biden administration blames next."
Since this is largely a pandemic of the unvaccinated - your comments continue to make no sense whatsoever.  

 
 
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