A new Manchin 'No': Amnesty without border security

  

Category:  News & Politics

Via:  texan1211  •  4 weeks ago  •  35 comments

By:   Paul Bedard (MSN)

A new Manchin 'No': Amnesty without border security
Sen. Joe Manchin has presented a new challenge to President Biden's $1.75 trillion social spending package moving through Congress -- objecting to a massive $100 billion immigration agenda that grants amnesty without major border controls.

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T


Sen. Joe Manchin has presented a new challenge to President Biden's $1.75 trillion social spending package moving through Congress -- objecting to a massive $100 billion immigration agenda that grants amnesty without major border controls.

© Provided by Washington Examiner

The Democrat has begun warning that while he supports aiding so-called "Dreamers" and other immigrants, the bill is a no go if it doesn't also include some type of border security spending.

He told Fox's Bret Baier, for example, "For us to even be talking about immigration without border security is ludicrous."

His comments present House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's team with a new issue that could scare moderate Democrats if they are forced to vote for the plan that includes amnesty for up to 11 million illegal immigrants knowing it won't be included in any Senate bill if Manchin gets his way.

Sen. Mike Braun, the Indiana Republican who is influential in immigration talks, agreed. "I'm with Joe Manchin on that," he told Secrets. "There will be no discussion of reforming, in a bipartisan way, immigration issues, and there are valid ones out there," he added.


Asked if he supports amnesty without border security, @Sen_JoeManchin says "No."
"For us to even be talking about immigration without border security is ludicrous."https://t.co/kz42uslhAU
— Adam Shaw (@AdamShawNY) November 4, 2021

If there are to be talks, he said, "it's got to be on an absolutely secure border."

The expensive Biden package includes a pathway to citizenship many consider amnesty instead of seeking illegals in the country to follow the rules of winning citizenship that millions more have.

"This money is not intended for border security or to fix any of the problems in the dysfunctional asylum system, but to grease the way for more illegal aliens to become permanent residents," said Jessica M. Vaughan, the director of policy studies for the Center for Immigration Studies.

"You would think that Tuesday's election results might dampen the enthusiasm of Democrats for these kinds of actions, but I wonder if it won't make the leadership more radical since they know their time will be up soon," she added.

Manchin sounded a similar warning. He said, "The average person turns on the TV and sees what's going on in the border. And that basically scares the bejesus out of an awful lot of people. If they think they can come and get all the different benefits that people that citizens of America are entitled to, they're going to continue to come."

He added, "I would love to do something for people that came even if they came wrong, pay your fine, get in line, 10 years back, you won't be jumping live, but nobody becomes a citizen until the border is declared secure. So that's not happening."

A prior version of the Biden bill immigration package drew the scorn of the Senate parliamentarian who said it needed to be broken out for separate consideration.

The debate over amnesty comes as Biden is pushing back on reports he plans to spend over $1 billion giving $450,000 handouts to migrants who were separated from their children during a border crossing spike under the Trump administration.

And there is yet another caravan of up to 3,000 illegals headed to the Mexico-Texas border that has prompted Sen. Ted Cruz and Rep. Elsie Stefanik to demand that Homeland Security enforce border laws.


Today, @RepStefanik and I sent a letter to @SecMayorkas and @DHSgov demanding they enforce federal immigration laws as a caravan of over 3,000 illegal immigrants head toward the southern border. #BidenBorderCrisishttps://t.co/ZV3s8iHPQ7
— Senator Ted Cruz (@SenTedCruz) November 4, 2021

Tags: Washington Secrets, Joe Manchin, Mike Braun, Joe Biden, Border Crisis

Original Author: Paul Bedard

Original Location: A new Manchin 'No': Amnesty without border security


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Texan1211
Professor Principal
1  seeder  Texan1211    4 weeks ago

As if Joe Manchin hasn't said enough sane things for Democrats to hate him. now he shows some common sense regarding amnesty.

Poor guy keeps telling them what he wants and they keep ignoring him.

Anyone know how many more times Nancy will promise a vote, only to delay it once again?

 
 
 
Snuffy
Junior Quiet
2  Snuffy    4 weeks ago

Immigration is such a boondoggle that I suspect it's going to take a great big bill to fix things.  Both sides are gonna have to give somewhat to get there.

I would not have any major issue with a bill that granted a reasonable pathway to citizenship for every dreamer / unregistered in this country (as of a certain date which should really be before the bill is announced to avoid the border stampede) provided it also beefed up border security, increased officer head counts, increased courts for faster processing and changed immigration to a merit-based system. 

Both sides would gain and we would solve the issue of all those people who are in the country now. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1  seeder  Texan1211  replied to  Snuffy @2    4 weeks ago

The problem with granting amnesty is that we will have to do it again in 20-30 years.  It will be  never-ending cycle.

And most Democrats aren't interested in securing the border.

 
 
 
Snuffy
Junior Quiet
2.1.1  Snuffy  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1    4 weeks ago

Yeah,  I don't like the amnesty part but diplomacy requires negotiation and some give & take from both sides. If it can be set up that the amnesty is a one-time deal I would go for that, provided the other pieces like fixing border security, merit-based immigration and increasing staffing are all immediately funded and acted on.  No more agreeing to something based only on a promise of future action.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.2  seeder  Texan1211  replied to  Snuffy @2.1.1    4 weeks ago

The problem is that it won't be a one time deal. It never is.

Just imagine 30 years from now when we have another 5-10 million illegal aliens here and Democrats will start talk of making them legal and giving them a path to citizenship. We have seen the history of amnesty, and it ain't pretty.

 
 
 
Snuffy
Junior Quiet
2.1.3  Snuffy  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.2    4 weeks ago

I agree with all you say. For this to work the Democrats would need to change how they view immigration and I really don't see the current group willing to make any changes. So this entire mess is going to continue to be an issue for years to come until one party can take total control of the government so that they can change the laws all by themselves to set it how they want it done. But so long as the two sides are so far apart in their willingness to make a solid deal and unable to gain total and complete control of the government this will not be resolved and we will continue to have people protest & riot over it.

On the plus side, it is another bit to help our "solid" news organizations in the black and pushing more of their "truthful" news...   /s

 
 
 
gooseisback
Freshman Silent
2.1.4  gooseisback  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.2    4 weeks ago
Just imagine 30 years from now when we have another 5-10 million illegal aliens here

Who are you kidding, we'll have 5 million before the 2022 midterms.

 
 
 
Split Personality
PhD Principal
2.2  Split Personality  replied to  Snuffy @2    4 weeks ago

We spend 4.9 billion on border security

100 million on improving the immigration system is a non issue.

100 billion for amnesty is negotiable.

as long as they aren't criminals

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.2.1  seeder  Texan1211  replied to  Split Personality @2.2    4 weeks ago
as long as they aren't criminals

Do you think illegal aliens are here legally???????????????

 
 
 
Greg Jones
PhD Expert
2.2.2  Greg Jones  replied to  Split Personality @2.2    4 weeks ago

Within the hordes of illegal border hoppers it's safe to assume there are substantial numbers of career criminals....from run of the mill thieves, to the average murderer, to the traffickers of kids, women, and drugs, and the occasional foreign terrorist.

 
 
 
Split Personality
PhD Principal
2.2.3  Split Personality  replied to  Greg Jones @2.2.2    4 weeks ago

You know what they say about assuming Greg...

For more than a century, innumerable studies have confirmed two simple yet powerful truths about the relationship between immigration and crime: immigrants are less likely to commit serious crimes or be behind bars than the native-born, and high rates of immigration are associated with  lower rates of violent crime and property crime .

Immigration and Crime | American Immigration Council

The number of bad eggs pales in comparison to our own home grown citizenry.

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Quiet
3  charger 383    4 weeks ago

Secure the border and no Amnesty and remove all that are not supposed to be here

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.1  seeder  Texan1211  replied to  charger 383 @3    4 weeks ago
Secure the border and no Amnesty and remove all that are not supposed to be here

Will never happen as long as there are Democrats.

 
 
 
Split Personality
PhD Principal
3.2  Split Personality  replied to  charger 383 @3    4 weeks ago

Pipe dream that every full blood NA dreams of secretly

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.2.1  seeder  Texan1211  replied to  Split Personality @3.2    4 weeks ago
Pipe dream that every full blood NA dreams of secretly

It's nice to have dreams.

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Quiet
3.2.2  charger 383  replied to  Split Personality @3.2    4 weeks ago

They didn't and they are still unhappy about it

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Senior Participates
4  Jeremy Retired in NC    4 weeks ago

I would think that border security would be included if there is even a remote chance of amnesty.  But that would apply common sense.  Something the Democrat's seem to be lacking (among many other things).

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
5  Vic Eldred    4 weeks ago

Manchin drew a red line.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
5.1  seeder  Texan1211  replied to  Vic Eldred @5    4 weeks ago

Hope he didn't learn it from Obama.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
5.1.1  Vic Eldred  replied to  Texan1211 @5.1    4 weeks ago

I think he has a lot more going for him than Obama did starting with integrity.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Masters Principal
6  Nerm_L    4 weeks ago

Border security must be tackled first.  Without border security any effort to address the current illegal population would only invite more illegal immigration.  And there needs to be recognition that not all the illegal population should be allowed to stay; we can't grant amnesty to everyone here illegally.

A lot of the immigrant population in the country illegally have overstayed their work permits.  It would seem that extending those work permits would be appropriate to provide legal status.  From there this group can work towards obtaining a green card and begin the process of naturalization.  That wouldn't be amnesty; that's just fixing the work permit problem.  

Democrats are trying to build in too many shortcuts.  That's only going to make the problem worse.  Renewing work permits would be quick, easy, and still be within the legal framework of immigration law.  And establishing legal status would allow the problem to resolve itself within the legal framework of immigration law.  The problem is getting these illegals back into the immigration system; not how to do away with the immigration system.

 
 
 
Split Personality
PhD Principal
6.1  Split Personality  replied to  Nerm_L @6    4 weeks ago
A lot of the immigrant population in the country illegally have overstayed their work permits.  It would seem that extending those work permits would be appropriate to provide legal status.  From there this group can work towards obtaining a green card and begin the process of naturalization.  That wouldn't be amnesty; that's just fixing the work permit problem.  

And you want to argue about semantics?

Gimme a break already.

 
 
 
squiggy
Sophomore Quiet
7  squiggy    4 weeks ago

"...it might be helpful to remember that in 1986, Ronald Reagan signed a sweeping immigration reform bill into law. It was sold as a crackdown: There would be tighter security at the Mexican border, and employers would face strict penalties for hiring undocumented workers.

But the bill also made any immigrant who'd entered the country before 1982 eligible for amnesty -- a word not usually associated with the father of modern conservatism."

We going for another round of 'Olly Olly in free'?

 
 
 
squiggy
Sophomore Quiet
8  squiggy    4 weeks ago

(deleted)

 
 
 
Nowhere Man
Sophomore Participates
8.1  Nowhere Man  replied to  squiggy @8    4 weeks ago
"...it might be helpful to remember that in 1986, Ronald Reagan signed a sweeping immigration reform bill into law. It was sold as a crackdown: There would be tighter security at the Mexican border, and employers would face strict penalties for hiring undocumented workers. But the bill also made any immigrant who'd entered the country before 1982 eligible for amnesty -- a word not usually associated with the father of modern conservatism."

Yep, and the democrats in congress (they had complete control) refused to fund the crackdowns... (but made damn sure the "Amnesty" was implemented)

As a result the "Father of Modern Conservatism" refused to make any more "compromises" with democrats....

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
9  JBB    4 weeks ago

original

 
 
 
Nowhere Man
Sophomore Participates
9.1  Nowhere Man  replied to  JBB @9    4 weeks ago

So a lifelong democrat, and a charter member of the leftist elite, who hates her uncle and accuses him of cutting her out of grandpa's will, has a meme spouting the party hate republicans line?

And that is supposed to mean something?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
9.1.1  JohnRussell  replied to  Nowhere Man @9.1    4 weeks ago

She is the only decent person in that family. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
9.1.2  seeder  Texan1211  replied to  Nowhere Man @9.1    4 weeks ago

What it means is that she isn't too good to lie, and obviously some people aren't smart enough to not believe her.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
9.1.3  JBB  replied to  Nowhere Man @9.1    4 weeks ago

I believe she believes what she believes!

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
9.2  seeder  Texan1211  replied to  JBB @9    4 weeks ago

Mary Trump is a liar, and it is extremely foolish to publish those lies.

Fucking bullshit is what the post is.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
9.2.1  JBB  replied to  Texan1211 @9.2    4 weeks ago

Which part of the quote do you claim is untrue?

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
9.2.2  seeder  Texan1211  replied to  JBB @9.2.1    4 weeks ago
Which part of the quote do you claim is untrue,

The part about voting rights.

The part about being against infrastructure.

The part about being against paying our debts.

The part about being against democracy.

Gee, that means the WHOLE FUCKING THING IS NOTHING BUT LIES.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
9.2.3  JBB  replied to  Texan1211 @9.2.2    4 weeks ago

And yet the goppers in Congress voted as a block against expanding voting rights, against increased infrastructure spending, against raising taxes on the rich and corporations and against protecting the environment. So, doesn't that makes what Mary Trump said true?

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
9.2.4  seeder  Texan1211  replied to  JBB @9.2.3    4 weeks ago
And yet the damb gop in Congress has voted as a block against expanding voting rights,

And yet, the GOP has voted for voting rights any number of times.

against increased infrastructure spending,

As have Democrats. Just because something increases doesn't automatically mean its good.

against raising taxes on the rich

The GOP HAS increased taxes on the rich. So have Democrats. Both parties have also gave tax breaks to the very rich.  

protecting the environment.

The GOP has protected the environment.

So, doesn't that makes what Mary Trump said true?

No, it makes her a liar and people fools for believing her.

 
 
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