It is difficult for me to engage on these political articles... here's why...

  

Category:  News & Politics

By:  malamuteman  •  8 months ago  •  66 comments

It is difficult for me to engage on these political articles... here's why...

There is no making any effort to see things from “the other side’s” perspective. There is no effort to find middle ground. It is all hateful angry rants. It is all my way or the highway. To be fair, the nasty rhetoric goes both ways.

I am a liberal. My preferred form of government is Democratic Socialism (oh, horrors!!!!!). I know there are many Americans whose views are the extreme opposite of mine. I have always felt that is what makes America strong, our diversity and our willingness to find compromise in spite of our differences… our willingness to work together. I don’t see much of that anymore… anywhere. When I look at the commentary on just about any political article, it is all “You and your ideas are the spawn of Satan.”

What good does that do????

Like it or not, we are all Americans, and it is not only our patriotic duty to work together, it is also in our personal best interest to work together.

I joined the Vine about the same time Perrie joined (2008-ish), and I joined NT shortly after Perrie started it. Since the Vine shut down, literally the only site I have found that is anything at all like the Vine was is NT. The Vine started out with widely divers ideologies, but with mutual respect and cooperative dialogue. Over time that devolved into the same kind of hateful unproductive rhetoric I see here on NT these days. There is very little effort to find compromise or to “walk in the others shoes.” It is pretty sad… and to be perfectly honest, boring as hell. What a shame!


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JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1  JohnRussell    8 months ago

Mark Meadows, the chief of staff for the last president , first ran for Congress in 2012.  One of Meadows regular applause and cheer getters on the campaign trail was when he told his crowds that if he was elected he was going to send Barack Obama (then president of the United States) back to Africa. 

Its been quite a while since American politics has fallen into the parameters that you prefer. 

I'm sure it is a loss, but sweet talk is not going to work at this point either. 

 
 
 
MalamuteMan
Professor Participates
1.1  author  MalamuteMan  replied to  JohnRussell @1    8 months ago

I'm not asking for "sweet talk"...

I am asking for a genuine effort at empathy...
I don't believe I have to necessarily agree in order to look at an idea from the perspective of those with whom I disagree.

 
 
 
MalamuteMan
Professor Participates
1.1.1  author  MalamuteMan  replied to  MalamuteMan @1.1    8 months ago

And one more thing...

I have often heard something like, "If I make an effort to empathize or understand, that doesn't mean the other side will do the same for me."

Very true! You may not get any sort of reciprocation. If you approach an effort to empathize with the underlying goal of turning the other side to your side, you have failed before you have even begun. The objective should be to learn... nothing more.

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
Professor Participates
1.2  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  JohnRussell @1    8 months ago
sweet talk is not going to work at this point either

I think liberals and progressives have always had to compromise from the very start because the cultures they are born into have always been run by conservatives, the old guard, the status quo.

Conservative: adjective - averse to change or innovation and holding traditional values.

Slowly and often painfully, over time, liberals and progressives have exposed the cancerous corruption and inequality of conservatives, chipping away at the status quo, supporting change and innovation, letting go of archaic and abusive traditional values through decades, even centuries of compromise. And occasionally it comes to a head, like when they overcame slavery. But of course that was a short lived win because within a decade the conservatives were back in charge of large swaths of America desperate to reinstitute their conservative values, their traditions, their prejudices.

With each generation liberals and progressives chip away at those conservative values. They succeeded in securing women's right to vote, black Americans right to vote, interracial couples the right to marry, gay couples the right to marry, all against the status quo of conservative values that conservatives were desperately trying to preserve. I see each of those steps as huge wins for liberals and progressives, but the fact is conservatives had been 'winning' at defending their status quo for centuries, far longer than we've been able to enjoy our progress. That's because to conservatives 'compromise' is a dirty word, it means giving up some traditional value they hold dear while for liberals and progressives compromise is the only way to achieve change, to move forward, which is why it has been such a slow struggle.

Today, conservatives now feel the white conservative Christian-centric traditional values they hold so dear are continually under threat which is why they are again buckling down and refusing to compromise. Anyone who doesn't share their conservative values are "the devil" and compromising with "the devil" isn't an option for them. So they double down on their hate of those trying to push forward change, those supporting diversity, those highlighting the victims of their conservative values. But is the answer liberals and progressives to just give up trying to make this "a more perfect union" as our founders intended? Do we just accept the label conservatives have given us and accept the stain of conservative values? Do we keep silent as the victims of those values continue to pile up?

If conservatives refuse to compromise then there is only one possible eventuality which is that liberals and progressives eventually stop compromising and the two confront each other and fight for the soul of America as they have done many times throughout our history. It feels like we have once again reached a point where liberals and progressives are tired of compromising with conservatives who have always refused to compromise unless they're forced to.

The last President inspired those conservatives praising them for their unwillingness to compromise, who called admitting ones faults a weakness, who championed the conservative value of might (and white) makes right and pushed for an 'America First' policy which, in their minds that believe only right wing conservative Christians are 'Americans', means 'right wing white conservative Christians First'. If liberals and progressives back down now and compromise it will just elongate freedom loving, diversity loving Americans suffering.

 
 
 
MalamuteMan
Professor Participates
1.2.1  author  MalamuteMan  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @1.2    8 months ago
If liberals and progressives back down now and compromise

By definition, compromise means each side gets some but not all of what they want. It does not mean one side acquiesces to the wishes of the other.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.2.2  Tessylo  replied to  MalamuteMan @1.2.1    8 months ago

But with republicans and alleged conservatives these days - it's their way or NO WAY.  

 
 
 
evilgenius
PhD Guide
1.2.3  evilgenius  replied to  Tessylo @1.2.2    8 months ago
But with republicans and alleged conservatives these days - it's their way or NO WAY.  

The same can be said from the populist progressive wing. The whole Manchin and Sinema "DINO" bullshit is just one example.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
1.2.4  Trout Giggles  replied to  evilgenius @1.2.3    8 months ago

I have to agree with you here. So they are fiscally conservative Democrats! I like those. I vote Democrat mostly because of social issues, but show me a moderate Republican who can at least compromise with the Democrats and I will probably vote for him or her.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.2.5  Tessylo  replied to  evilgenius @1.2.3    8 months ago

I agree to disagree.  

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.2.6  Tessylo  replied to  evilgenius @1.2.3    8 months ago

I don't see calling them DINOs as bullshit.  But again, I agree to disagree.  

 
 
 
evilgenius
PhD Guide
1.2.7  evilgenius  replied to  Tessylo @1.2.5    8 months ago
I agree to disagree.  

jrSmiley_100_smiley_image.jpg   No worries. 

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
Professor Guide
1.3  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  JohnRussell @1    8 months ago

Mark Meadows, the chief of staff for the last president , first ran for Congress in 2012.  One of Meadows regular applause and cheer getters on the campaign trail was when he told his crowds that if he was elected he was going to send Barack Obama (then president of the United States) back to Africa. 

The perfect comeback would be if Meadows does end up in prison, Obama sending him a note that says....Well, it's not Africa, but enjoy your stay.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
2  devangelical    8 months ago

no worries mm, find your own happy place here. I recommend amac's art group.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
2.1  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  devangelical @2    8 months ago

Hear, hear!!!  

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
2.2  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  devangelical @2    8 months ago
no worries mm, find your own happy place here. I recommend amac's art group.

I have to agree with Dev. It is where we all can find something to share.

 
 
 
MalamuteMan
Professor Participates
2.3  author  MalamuteMan  replied to  devangelical @2    8 months ago
I recommend amac's art group.

I remember that on the Vine too... The good old days... :o)

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
2.3.1  Ender  replied to  MalamuteMan @2.3    8 months ago

Now you made me think of Vlad. I miss him.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
3  JohnRussell    8 months ago

I would recommend that you comment on politics in any way that you like, and then hope for the best. We would like to hear your views MM.

 
 
 
al Jizzerror
Sophomore Expert
4  al Jizzerror    8 months ago

I find the political vitriol to be entertaining.  It's hilarious to watch people fling poop at each other.

I remember a long interview with John Boehner when he was still the Speaker of the House and Obama was the president.  He refused to even say the word compromise.  At that time the Senate Majority Leader was Mitch McConnell.  His stated objective was to make Obama "a one term president".  I think that was the beginning of extreme partisan politics.  It turned Congress into a stone wall.

 
 
 
MalamuteMan
Professor Participates
4.1  author  MalamuteMan  replied to  al Jizzerror @4    8 months ago
I find the political vitriol to be entertaining.

Well, I am glad you get "entertainment" out of it...

Saying and hearing the same things over and over for years, gets kinda boring for me.
I came to the Vine and subsequently NT to find common ground... and most importantly, to learn things... especially about those who have different ideas than I have.
I gotta say, I find it hard see how I will learn anything I don't already know in the midst of a perpetual food fight.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
4.1.1  devangelical  replied to  MalamuteMan @4.1    8 months ago

I blame my grandparents. they claimed they killed all the fascists 75 years ago...

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
4.2  Texan1211  replied to  al Jizzerror @4    8 months ago
 His stated objective was to make Obama "a one term president".  

Would you have believed him had he said "I want to see Obama reelected"??????

Of course he wanted to make him a one-termer. It is pure stupid to think that any other leader of the opposite party has ever tried to make the incumbent opposition President a two-termer.

 
 
 
Steve Ott
Professor Quiet
5  Steve Ott    8 months ago

What happens here is merely a symptom of the plague that has enveloped the American political scene. I tried for a couple of years to get dialogue going, but the other side really has no ability to such a thing.

I now just say my piece and mostly let it lie. I have tried to goad some people into thinking, but it is difficult when they are not used to it.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
5.1  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Steve Ott @5    8 months ago

Steve, I still enjoy what you have to say, so keep that in mind!

 
 
 
Steve Ott
Professor Quiet
5.1.1  Steve Ott  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @5.1    8 months ago

I will and always have. Just that circumstances have rather limited my ability to get here. But hopefully I'm back for a while.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
5.1.3  Trout Giggles  replied to  Steve Ott @5.1.1    8 months ago

Me, too!

You've been missed, Steve!

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Senior Quiet
6  Jack_TX    8 months ago
Over time that devolved into the same kind of hateful unproductive rhetoric I see here on NT these days. There is very little effort to find compromise or to “walk in the others shoes.” It is pretty sad… and to be perfectly honest, boring as hell. What a shame!

You're not wrong.  

We have a lot of identity politics going on here, which quite frankly is just people substituting political affiliation as their religion.  They view other people are right/wrong or good/evil simply because of what political team they cheer for.  It's convenient, but it's both stupid and lazy.

Undoing that requires intellectual effort, which many people simply aren't willing to put forth.  It also means that they run the risk of finding out something they're very committed to emotionally doesn't actually make much sense.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
6.1  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Jack_TX @6    8 months ago

Jack,

Whether we agree or disagree, I find what you have to say as relevant. You actually take the time to answer with a full thought and thoughtfulness. I appreciate that.

 
 
 
MalamuteMan
Professor Participates
6.2  author  MalamuteMan  replied to  Jack_TX @6    8 months ago
stupid and lazy

You thoroughly and completely summarized my feelings in just two words...

BRAVO!!!!

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
6.3  Dulay  replied to  Jack_TX @6    8 months ago

When I first started on these types of forums, I was naive enough to believe that if I invested the time to research, review and post facts about the topic, it would cause members to THINK and even perhaps incorporate those facts into their positions. 

I was sadly mistaken. I've come to the conclusion that there are all too many that NEED to believe 'alternative facts, or at least pretend they do, in order to continue in the mindset they have chosen to adopt.

They've invested quite a bit, steeping themselves in those 'alternative facts' and they've fallen into an abyss of an alternative reality. So many come here, post seeds from that originate in that alternative reality, with no intention or desire to discuss the validity of the content or concept. They seem to think that just 'getting it out there' allows them to get their 'I owned the libs today' star. It's an intellectually bankrupt muck that they wallow in and they want to drag everyone else into.

I'm not talking about real and tangible 'differences of opinion', those would both be based on divergent facts that can be debated. I am talking about shit that even they know is bullshit though they refuse to admit it. I can't count how many times, after I have posted facts, that members either walk away from a thread [or a whole seed] or deflect from the conversation to avoid admitting that they were wrong. They'd rather just move onto the next pile of crap to throw. 

As long as 'the other side' needs to predicate the conversation with easily refuted fabrication, I see no motivation for compromise. How does one compromise with someone who starts the negotiation by insisting that their lies are the outline for the 'treaty'? 

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
7  Buzz of the Orient    8 months ago

In all my long life I never saw, read or heard of people being banned from privately owned restaurants because of their political beliefs before.  Actually, with all the demonization of China these days, I'm surprised the Chinese restaurants in America don't all go bankrupt, and the Chinatowns aren't set on fire like "real" Americans used to do to them in the past.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
7.1  devangelical  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @7    8 months ago

that won't happen. their quick in-house delivery logistics predate anything available by decades

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
8  Perrie Halpern R.A.    8 months ago

Hi MM,

Thanks for the very thoughtful article. It's true that way back when we met on the vine, there was many a good discussion, even if no conclusion was had. That being said, the very thing you are complaining about, was one of the reasons I left. I got gang banged and Mac got bullied and at least here, I can stop that from happening. 

On the other hand, people do have a very hard time listening to each other, and not vilifying them. That quote you gave, is not the totality of what is here in views. That being said, it is upsetting to know that it is for someone like you who comes here not so often, that that quote jumps out at you. 

Look you and I always got along terrifically, but our views are not always in sync. I can still talk to anyone here who wants to have a serious good discussion, and I know other members who feel the same way. Go read the latest from "thedoctorisinthehouse". I think you might find it interesting. It's part of a series of articles they are doing.

 
 
 
MalamuteMan
Professor Participates
8.1  author  MalamuteMan  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @8    8 months ago
a very hard time listening to each other
Listening!!!! That is step ONE...
Step TWO... Making a sincere effort to try on a new idea. That doesn't mean adopting it... just try to have a little empathy... just for a minute or two...
You are very correct, Perrie... I am sure there is much more to be seen here than the intransigent acrimony I find so discouraging.

 
 
 
Hallux
Junior Principal
9  Hallux    8 months ago

“You and your ideas are the spawn of Satan.”

Mine certainly are, that apple was delicious.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
9.1  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Hallux @9    8 months ago

Now don't make me laugh when I am trying to be serious.

 
 
 
MalamuteMan
Professor Participates
9.1.1  author  MalamuteMan  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @9.1    8 months ago

Hey Perrie,

I see a new feature that I don't understand... It is that little circled minus sign just to the left of the Thumbs up. I assume that is essentially a thumbs down... Is it???
If so, does it have any effect (like pulling the comment down) other than to being the lazy way of saying I disagree???

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
9.1.2  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  MalamuteMan @9.1.1    8 months ago

That little circle is to open or close a thread. It's so that pages load faster. 

 
 
 
MalamuteMan
Professor Participates
10  author  MalamuteMan    8 months ago

Freshman Participates...

"FRESHMAN"... sheesh!!!! I may not be here very often... but this isn't exactly my first time around the block...

HARUMPH!!!!! [ Mal frowns... ]

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
10.1  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  MalamuteMan @10    8 months ago

LOL, that is based on how long you have been here and how much you participate. That freshmen needs to be updated, LOL! I'll get to that. The algorithm takes a bit after a long departure to update.

 
 
 
MalamuteMan
Professor Participates
10.1.1  author  MalamuteMan  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @10.1    8 months ago

jrSmiley_81_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
10.1.2  Trout Giggles  replied to  MalamuteMan @10.1.1    8 months ago

Comment more and you get to be "Old Woman Who Thinks She Knows it All"

 
 
 
Nowhere Man
Junior Expert
10.2  Nowhere Man  replied to  MalamuteMan @10    8 months ago
"FRESHMAN"... sheesh!!!! I may not be here very often... but this isn't exactly my first time around the block...]

I hear ya brother saw that as well but understood it was a mod to the software and will catch up to itself... Look now your a "Professor Participates"!!! {chuckle}

Doesn't mean nothing, they will bash you no matter how often your here, or when you started, or if you were on NV, etc etc etc... There are some fun things going on here there is always Mac and pics, Buzz has a good setup on movie quizzes which is well worth checking out... And you can set up your own home group and block all that crap...

Been back myself just a few weeks now so I know what it feels like, same room, different furniture, same music just blared louder...

Good to see ya again...

PS: you see now I'm a "Sophmore" yep there are some people who will agree with that after adding a "ic" to the end of it...

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
10.2.1  devangelical  replied to  Nowhere Man @10.2    8 months ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Hallux
Junior Principal
10.3  Hallux  replied to  MalamuteMan @10    8 months ago

Hey now, I've been stuck on Sophomoric Prince for well nigh a year and have been asking to be elevated to the exalted position of Sapphic Sadist. Alas TPTB merely chuckle ... they're not a nice bunch.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
10.3.1  devangelical  replied to  Hallux @10.3    8 months ago

have you tried cutting and pasting your entire seed in the comment section or voting up all your own comments?

 
 
 
Hallux
Junior Principal
10.3.2  Hallux  replied to  devangelical @10.3.1    8 months ago

I tried the buttering-up approach with an online order but the Fed-X gal ate all the cupcakes.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
11  CB     8 months ago

Hi! Look, I have been around the block on NewsVine and NT non-stop. Through it all I am a "sweet" lovable, likeable (I hope) guy. It breaks my heart what I see going on in the political arena today. It even threatens to do the impossible-depress my spirit. Since Trump, I, a longtime spiritual person, have rediscovered 'cursing like a sailor.' Some may have noticed the change in my tone, my words and phrasing, my 'energy,'  and my patience with people who tell us in "abundance" to nicely go to hell with our plans for making diversity a beautiful thing in this country once and for all.

Now, we have people who talk to us like we are damn fools, use projection, astro-turf, lie to us, gaslight us (to our virtual faces), and when all else fails tell us they really did not mean any of the aforementioned tactics and strategies.

They mean it.

They come here (return from their other forum 'hide-outs") (NT) to bombast, ridicule, instigate, and deliver and unleash their newest bag of 'toxins' learned somewhere else with what I can only determine to be an attempt to TRASH this site or make it 'go out of fashion' because they have decided it is what they want for NT. I clearly see the 'passion-play' and its "irreconcilable differences" overlay.

Yes, I see this. And I am calling it out. When you tell someone 2+2=4 and it leads to a 'debate' or never-ending argument, or you tell a religious person - what the "Lord loves" and they won't see it or 'open' discourse to defend their own distinct truths but look for ways to slide by - that ain't a good-faith act or defense of what is good, right, or wholesome. 

It is willful, spiteful, mean-spirited, dirty, and even fatally flawed.

You see those persons right were they stand, exposed. As reprobates. People wanting what they want out of you while selfishly placing (and willing to slay or cause brutal damages) their own whims, rights, and privileges as such worthy of respect! While allowing truths to crater and decay.

"The Devil Is A Lie."

We have no choice! We have to stand our ground in the virtual sphere, because these others are going to tell the world they "own" us if we do not. And MM, that would be a lie straight out of hell. Why? Because we are 'owned' by the truth and if we shut it up inside and let lies flourish out in the open-unmolested even-then it is we who will burst wide open from the tensions we keep stuffed down inside!

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Guide
11.1  Greg Jones  replied to  CB @11    8 months ago

I think you deny the truth in your willingness to condemn and demonize those with whom you disagree.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
11.1.1  Tessylo  replied to  Greg Jones @11.1    8 months ago

jrSmiley_86_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
11.1.2  CB   replied to  Greg Jones @11.1    8 months ago

jrSmiley_86_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
11.1.3  devangelical  replied to  Greg Jones @11.1    8 months ago

ridiculing and/or exploiting the ignorant is as old as mankind. need some present day examples?

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Guide
11.1.4  Greg Jones  replied to  devangelical @11.1.3    8 months ago

Nah...you're example enough

 
 
 
squiggy
Sophomore Quiet
12  squiggy    8 months ago

I'd look for middle ground [deleted]

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
12.1  Tessylo  replied to  squiggy @12    8 months ago

jrSmiley_78_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
squiggy
Sophomore Quiet
12.2  squiggy  replied to  squiggy @12    8 months ago

Yup - just decimate the comment.....

 
 
 
freepress
Freshman Silent
13  freepress    8 months ago

You are so right! I never engage in rants or arguments because nothing can be bridged if an entrenched person only wants to tear down another person or tear down another idea rather than actually give in or give up on a talking point when someone provides a genuine valid fact.

The same people who carried water by way of talking points, they did so for Bush and crew over every issue including the lie about WMD. The same people who carried water for every Republican candidate simply chanted the Republican party line nonsensical arguments for McCain, Palin, Romney and every single Republican no matter what.

They did the same for Trump and continue to do the same for an even worse array of people simply because they are Republicans.

No other thought gets through. You would think that after watching Republicans hand out tax cuts to the rich elite they would finally get a clue that nothing will ever be for their base. They lie knowing full well their base will support it even when the lies and policies are completely contradictory to previous positions and older talking points. 

Republicans are so callous and indifferent to their own voting base they are the ones who jumped on the no masks, no vaccine bandwagons and circled the wagons allowing their own base to die rather than about face within a time frame to save them.

Republicans are pushing gerrymandering, lies about elections to the point of death threats toward election workers who don't make the rules, they have gone so long simply changing the rules to suit them knowing that rich elites will flood the campaigns with money to overcome the true will of the people.

It will never make sense to trash Hollywood, celebrities and coastal elites and then elect Trump. It will never make sense that a proudly admittedly immoral man could find his way into their hearts and dupe them in a way that has decimated the Republican base voters with drastically higher death rates from Covid. No Republican even mentions Herman Cain or the host of politicians or right wing pundits, radio hosts, preachers and other prominent right wing voices silenced promoting Covid who are now dead, rather than promoting a high measure of protection from vaccines.

I don't hate the Republican base, I want them to live, I want them to get the vaccines, I want them to wear masks and survive, I want them to have healthcare, I want our government to work for the people and give money to them rather than the elites. 

Yet I know there is no saving them, there is no reasoning with them, there can be no arguing with them, there is no talking point to get through to a person who wishes harm or erasure of "liberals" or "Democrats". No facts convince them if they are programmed to rebut with a conspiracy or an "alternative fact" that is no fact at all.

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Guide
13.1  Greg Jones  replied to  freepress @13    8 months ago

So....you're implying that only Democrats/Progressives are without sin and are righteous and correct on every issue? 

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
13.1.1  Trout Giggles  replied to  Greg Jones @13.1    8 months ago

Democrats have their problems. I don't like the far left who wants to tax and spend...tax and spend....give every body a monthly stipend, free college, and whatever loony idea they have today.

 
 
 
al Jizzerror
Sophomore Expert
13.1.2  al Jizzerror  replied to  Trout Giggles @13.1.1    8 months ago
I don't like the far left who wants to tax and spend...

That's what Congress is supposed to do.  Tax and spend.

Republicans would rather borrow and spend.  That is "credit card" spending.  We still have to spend to cover their tax cuts, butt the interest makes the bill even higher.

Most of Biden's proposed spending is paid for by tax increases on the top 5% of taxpayers (some of whom do not pay taxes).

I don't have any credit cards (although I have a debit card).  I don't have a mortgage on any of my houses.  I paid cash for my cars.  That insulates me from paying interest so it saves money.  

Deficit spending costs the government more than "pay as you go".  Deficit spending only makes sense when the economy is in a recession.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
13.1.3  Trout Giggles  replied to  al Jizzerror @13.1.2    8 months ago

Ok...now that you put it that way, tax and spend is the right way to do business. It's what they want to spend it on.

I really have no problem with reduced or free tuition to community colleges. I would rather that money go to students who want to learn a trade instead. This country needs more plumbers than it does lawyers. It also needs more RNs than it does doctors with high falutin' specialties

 
 
 
al Jizzerror
Sophomore Expert
13.1.4  al Jizzerror  replied to  Trout Giggles @13.1.3    8 months ago
I would rather that money go to students who want to learn a trade instead.

I agree 100%.  Having a PhD in philosophy may make one a good bartender butt being proficient in a trade is excellent.

Our local community college has an emphasis on trades.  Their curriculum includes auto mechanics, HVAC, electronics, computer programming, typing/data entry and a plethora of useful courses.

The local university has some good stuff too butt I'm not sure having a degree in "Liberal Arts" is all that.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
13.1.5  Dulay  replied to  Trout Giggles @13.1.3    8 months ago

That's one of the things that I have always disagreed with when the cry goes out for free college for all. There are a lot of people who would be better off learning a trade that doesn't require a 4 year degree. Mechanics, computer techs, RNs, med techs, plumbers, electricians, carpenters, machine operators, masons and farmers. We need them ALL and we need to pay them ALL a living wage. 

 
 
 
Kathleen
Professor Expert
14  Kathleen    8 months ago

Politics and religion can bring the worst out of people. The way we run the country and what we believe in is a very touchy subject for most people.

Listening and thinking in terms of what is best for all seems like a dream that can never come true, but there are some that are willing to do it. I do understand your frustration. I am afraid these subjects will always be a hot spot and there will always be many people disagreeing with each other on them.  That is not a problem as long as they are civil with each other. That does not happen at times. That is the only thing I can offer you at this time. 

 
 
 
Veronica
Masters Expert
15  Veronica    8 months ago

MM, I have gotten to the point where I put many of the extremists on ignore because their comments mean nothing to me.  They are not thought provoking or discussion creating.  It became a name calling hell for me.  It made me someone I did not want to be.  Since they have been on ignore I have enjoyed discussions with people of all persuasions.  Jack is a good one to discuss things with - although we rarely agree on anything he never calls my belief system a work of the devil & for the most part he doesn't engage in the tit for tat we all get dragged into every once in a while.  I have always enjoyed your thoughts and hope to see you around more.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
16  TᵢG    8 months ago

There are those who wish to write thoughtful comments and then there are those who predominantly write comments to irritate others through intellectually dishonest tactics or gratuitous snark.    The perfect site IMO is one with diverse views, debates (heated), but with comments that are (mostly) honest and thoughtful.

Unfortunately social media forums attract too many who get their kicks being obnoxious.    And worse, this tends to dissuade the thoughtful members.

One solution would be for thoughtful members to ignore the trolls and manage / participate in groups where thoughtful commentary can be largely free of the trolls.    We have a number of groups that work exceptionally well in this regard.


The IGNORE function hides the ignored member's comments in articles and omits their articles (if any) and comments from the front page as seen by the ignorer.

 
 

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