Want to go fight for Ukraine? Here's what to do.

  

Category:  Other

Via:  dig  •  4 months ago  •  127 comments

By:   Howard Altman (Military Times)

Want to go fight for Ukraine? Here's what to do.
Here are the six steps you need to take if you want to help Ukraine fight.

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T



Under siege by its much larger and more powerful neighbor, Ukraine has been so far able to slow down Russia's attack, a senior U.S. defense official said Sunday morning.

But there is a long fight ahead.

"The Russians have been frustrated. They have been slowed. They have been stymied, and they have been resisted by Ukrainians, and to some degree, they've done it to themselves in terms of their fuel and logistics and sustainment problems," the official said, speaking on the condition of anonymity to brief reporters. "But as I said earlier, we would expect them to learn from these issues and adapt to them and try to overcome them. So I think we all need to be very sober here. in recognizing that this is combat, and combat is ugly, it's messy, it's bloody, and it's not wholly predictable.

And to that end, Ukraine is calling on foreigners who want to help.

Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has created "The International Legion of Territorial Defense of Ukraine." It is a new effort, a Ukrainian official tells Military Times, to help bolster the fight.

Several veterans have reached out to Military Times interested in helping Ukraine.

Before you go, this is what you need to know, according to the official, who spoke to Military Times Sunday on condition of anonymity in an interview repeatedly interrupted by ongoing airstrikes.

Here's what veterans, other U.S. citizens or anyone else interested in helping out, need to know.

  1. Apply to the Embassy of Ukraine in your country with the intention of joining the Foreign Legion of Territorial Defense of Ukraine (ask a military diplomat or consul for details). Applicants can visit the Embassy in person, call or send an email to start the process.
  2. Get your documents in order. This includes an ID, a passport to travel abroad, documents confirming military service or work with law enforcement agencies and participation in combat.
  3. Arrive at the embassy with documents for an interview with the defense attache and the settlement of any visa issues with the consul.
  4. Write an application for enlistment in the Territorial Defense of the Armed Forces of Ukraine for military service under a contract on a voluntary basis.(This is in addition to Step 1.)
  5. Receive instructions on how to arrive in Ukraine and what to bring. Military clothing, equipment, helmet, body armor, combat gloves, tactical glasses, belts and vests are recommended. "It is not obligatory," the official said, "but a foreign soldier in his national uniform looks good for the International Legion."
  6. Go to Ukraine in an organized manner. Representatives of Ukrainian embassies, consulates (abroad) and Territorial Defense in Ukraine will provide assistance on the way. Contacts will be provided at the Embassy of Ukraine in your country.

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Dig
PhD Guide
1  seeder  Dig    4 months ago

Well, this is interesting. Eat your heart out French Foreign Legion.

Here's a related article about some people already on their way.

A Team Of American And British Special Forces Veterans Are Preparing To Join Ukraine’s Fight Against Russia

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
1.1  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Dig @1    4 months ago

Very good to know. I'm glad to hear that there are people out there who will lay their lives down for the good fight.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.2  devangelical  replied to  Dig @1    4 months ago

[Deleted]

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.2.1  Texan1211  replied to  devangelical @1.2    4 months ago
Removed for context
 
 
 
Nowhere Man
Junior Expert
1.2.2  Nowhere Man  replied to  devangelical @1.2    4 months ago
removed for context

And I'm saving mine just in case we need to defend this nation from such nutjobs who love to express their willingness to go to against their fellow citizens with violence if they don't get what they want...

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.2.3  devangelical  replied to  Nowhere Man @1.2.2    4 months ago

pffft, probably lucky to make it to the end of your driveway before the pump blows a gasket.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
1.2.4  Ozzwald  replied to  Nowhere Man @1.2.2    4 months ago
And I'm saving mine just in case we need to defend this nation from such nutjobs who love to express their willingness to go to against their fellow citizens with violence if they don't get what they want...

Saving it for them?

JZVPNA4KPJV7KYWK3OIKXTJB3Q.jpg  capitol-riot-02-gty-jc-210112_1610470140267_hpMain_16x9_1600.jpg

 
 
 
Nowhere Man
Junior Expert
1.2.5  Nowhere Man  replied to  devangelical @1.2.3    4 months ago
pffft, probably lucky to make it to the end of your driveway before the pump blows a gasket.

Lemme ask you a plain question:

You think either one of us are going to be checking voter registration cards before we shoot them?

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.2.6  devangelical  replied to  Nowhere Man @1.2.5    4 months ago

the low hanging fruit gets picked first at harvest time. the ukrainian war is an important object lesson for those that think they can overthrow a government with force or even some ink on legislation. the last war of insurgency won by people that called themselves republicans was 157 years ago, and they didn't finish it.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.2.7  devangelical  replied to  Nowhere Man @1.2.2    4 months ago
nutjobs who love to express their willingness to go to against their fellow citizens with violence if they don't get what they want...

1/6/21

 
 
 
Nowhere Man
Junior Expert
1.2.8  Nowhere Man  replied to  devangelical @1.2.7    4 months ago
1/6/21

I guess that will be your battle cry? Remember 1/6/21?

 
 
 
Nowhere Man
Junior Expert
1.2.9  Nowhere Man  replied to  devangelical @1.2.6    4 months ago
the last war of insurgency won by people that called themselves republicans was 157 years ago, and they didn't finish it.

So I guess the confederate's surrender didn't finish the war in your opinion? What would have?

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.2.10  Texan1211  replied to  devangelical @1.2.6    4 months ago
the last war of insurgency won by people that called themselves republicans was 157 years ago, and they didn't finish it.

Yeah, it probably would have been MUCH better for America had we outlawed the Democratic Party.

Now THAT would have really finished it.

 
 
 
cjcold
Professor Quiet
1.2.11  cjcold  replied to  Texan1211 @1.2.10    4 months ago

At that point in time the democratic party was comprised of conservatives.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.2.12  Texan1211  replied to  cjcold @1.2.11    4 months ago
At that point in time the democratic party was comprised of conservatives.

And?????????

 
 
 
Moose Knuckle
Freshman Participates
1.2.13  Moose Knuckle  replied to  Texan1211 @1.2.12    4 months ago

That's why they are so neoconic these days I guess. Although a quick peak at twitter would lead you to believe the lefties are all joining Ukraine to fight the Russian army with small arms.

I can't help but notice their preferred pronoun and vaccine status under their twitter handle...Either way it would be the winner of all virtue signaling to see a collective group of woke tards with ak-47s trying to stop the Rooskie army.

I'd pay to see that!

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
1.2.14  bugsy  replied to  Texan1211 @1.2.10    4 months ago
outlawed the Democratic Party.

Hell, if that had happened, slavery would never had been in this country, the KKK would never had existed, there would never had been Jim Crowe laws and there would never had been a been a need for the civil rights act.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.2.15  devangelical  replied to  Nowhere Man @1.2.8    4 months ago
I guess that will be your battle cry? Remember 1/6/21?

deflection from the previous hypocritical nutjob commentary noted.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.2.16  devangelical  replied to  Texan1211 @1.2.10    4 months ago
had we outlawed the Democratic Party

that sounds a little like what russia is trying to do in ukraine.

 
 
 
Nowhere Man
Junior Expert
1.2.17  Nowhere Man  replied to  devangelical @1.2.15    4 months ago
deflection from the previous hypocritical nutjob commentary noted.

Ahh, the supreme deflection, accuse the other of exactly what you are doing... And a bonus!!!  Ignoring the direct question posed...

I suppose your going to do the same with the other direct question I asked, Correct?

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.2.18  Texan1211  replied to  devangelical @1.2.16    4 months ago
that sounds a little like what russia is trying to do in ukraine.

hey, YOU were the one bitching that the GOP didn't finish the job when we had to fight the Democrats in the South.

I was just giving a suggestion which would have cured many of our nation's ills without the Democratic Party.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.2.19  devangelical  replied to  Nowhere Man @1.2.17    4 months ago
Ignoring the direct question posed. I suppose your going to do the same with the other direct question I asked

you asked me 5 questions. which 2 did you want answers to?

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.2.20  Texan1211  replied to  devangelical @1.2.19    4 months ago

Which ones can you answer honestly without deflecting?

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
1.2.21  Krishna  replied to  Nowhere Man @1.2.2    4 months ago
And I'm saving mine just in case we need to defend this nation from such nutjobs who love to express their willingness to go to against their fellow citizens with violence if they don't get what they want...

While the Jan 6 insurrectionists broke laws, attacked police officers   (and indeed resulted in several deaths)-- Ireally don't think you can compare them with the atrocities committed by Hitler, Stalin..or even Putin.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
1.2.22  Krishna  replied to  Nowhere Man @1.2.5    4 months ago
You think either one of us are going to be checking voter registration cards before we shoot them?

Are you really threatening to shoot people?

(Which is, as I think you know, is a serious crime...whether of not you check voter registration cards, restaurant menus or the weather forecast...and whether if before orafter one commits murder).

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
1.2.23  Krishna  replied to  Nowhere Man @1.2.9    4 months ago
So I guess the confederate's surrender didn't finish the war in your opinion?

Actually many of the Southerners I know are of a typical  "The South Will Rise Again" mentality.

(Maybe they're right-- maybe Jefferson Davis will be..."reinstated"???)

jrSmiley_10_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
1.2.24  Krishna  replied to  Moose Knuckle @1.2.13    4 months ago
it would be the winner of all virtue signaling to see a collective group of woke tards with ak-47s trying to stop the Rooskie army.

How about all the actual Ukrainians who are doing that?

Do you consider them to be "woke tards"?

Just seeded (article with quite a few photos of actual captured Russian soldiers)

Ukrainian Officials Parade Captured Russian Soldiers, Videos Show

 
 
 
arkpdx
PhD Participates
1.2.25  arkpdx  replied to  Nowhere Man @1.2.2    4 months ago
nutjobs who love to express their willingness to go to against their fellow citizens with violence if they don't get what they want...

You mean groups like Antifa and BLM?

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
1.3  Kavika   replied to  Dig @1    4 months ago

An amazing number is there or headed to Ukraine.

 
 
 
Moose Knuckle
Freshman Participates
1.4  Moose Knuckle  replied to  Dig @1    4 months ago

[Deleted]

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.4.1  devangelical  replied to  Moose Knuckle @1.4    4 months ago

trump supporters would probably be welcomed by a couple of those fascist militias in ukraine.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.4.2  Texan1211  replied to  devangelical @1.4.1    4 months ago
trump supporters would probably be welcomed by the few neo-nazi militias in ukraine.

That comment is a fucked-up lie.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.4.3  devangelical  replied to  Texan1211 @1.4.2    4 months ago

... like the fine people that had a torch parade in charlottesville.

 
 
 
Moose Knuckle
Freshman Participates
1.4.4  Moose Knuckle  replied to  Texan1211 @1.4.2    4 months ago

With the exception of The Cheney's I don't see anyone advocating for that but the left. Not to mention NBC did a love affair piece with the White nationalist Azov brigade and even the NYT seems to fawn over them. Disgusting really.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.4.5  Texan1211  replied to  devangelical @1.4.3    4 months ago
... like the ones that had a torch parade in charlottesville.

LMMFAO!!!!!!!!

Weak, weak, weak.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.4.6  devangelical  replied to  Texan1211 @1.4.5    4 months ago

... yeah they were.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.4.7  Tessylo  replied to  devangelical @1.4.3    4 months ago

Wow, some folks are so triggered and hostile!

 
 
 
Moose Knuckle
Freshman Participates
1.4.8  Moose Knuckle  replied to  Tessylo @1.4.7    4 months ago

No one is triggered, just trying to figure out why all the lefties want to go to war. Then I realized the answer, white Europeans got invaded. 

jrSmiley_123_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.4.9  Texan1211  replied to  devangelical @1.4.6    4 months ago
yeah they were.

Is that the reason for your obsession with them?

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
1.4.10  Krishna  replied to  Moose Knuckle @1.4.8    4 months ago
No one is triggered, just trying to figure out why all the lefties want to go to war.

Probably the same reason many of them wanted to go to war against Hilter.

Many people forget, but at the time when the U.S. was still neutral in WWII< many "lefties" crossed the border into Canada so they could fight fascism!

(Of course they weren't all "lefties"-- some of them just had realized what a danger Hitler-- as well as Imperial Japan-- was at the time).

 
 
 
Drakkonis
PhD Guide
1.4.11  Drakkonis  replied to  devangelical @1.4.1    4 months ago
trump supporters would probably be welcomed by a couple of those fascist militias in ukraine.

I think it would be more accurate to say that some Trump supporters would probably be welcomed by a couple of those fascist militias, although I was unaware there was more than one. I doubt it would be very many but undoubtedly there would be some and I hope our government has those people on a watch list. The last thing we need is those types getting actual combat experience. 

 
 
 
Drakkonis
PhD Guide
1.4.12  Drakkonis  replied to  Texan1211 @1.4.5    4 months ago
LMMFAO!!!!!!!! Weak, weak, weak.

Not really. You gotta know that some who were in Charlottesville would try to go to Ukraine to join something like the Azov battalion if they have the courage and money to do so. While it's BS that devangelical wants to include all Trump supporters, you have to know there are some. 

 
 
 
Drakkonis
PhD Guide
1.4.13  Drakkonis  replied to  Krishna @1.4.10    4 months ago
Many people forget, but at the time when the U.S. was still neutral in WWII< many "lefties" crossed the border into Canada so they could fight fascism!

I expect that those who did so were of many different political backgrounds. 

 
 
 
evilgenius
PhD Guide
2  evilgenius    4 months ago

The NATO cabinet will meet tomorrow. Among other things they will discuss the immediate inclusion of Ukraine. 

 
 
 
Nowhere Man
Junior Expert
2.1  Nowhere Man  replied to  evilgenius @2    4 months ago

GOOD!

And if they vote to allow emergency accession, I do believe that the Ukrainian parliament will vote overwhelmingly in approval....

AND, that will be stomping all over Putin's threat to use the nuclear option...

 
 
 
Drakkonis
PhD Guide
2.1.1  Drakkonis  replied to  Nowhere Man @2.1    4 months ago
AND, that will be stomping all over Putin's threat to use the nuclear option...

Why on earth would you think that? Do you really think a Putin who sees himself with nothing to lose wouldn't burn down the world? He's as narcissistic as Trump. 

 
 
 
Nowhere Man
Junior Expert
2.1.2  Nowhere Man  replied to  Drakkonis @2.1.1    4 months ago
Why on earth would you think that?

You can face the bully early or late, in my experience with bully's, Put them down for the count as fast as your abilities, tools & human ability allows...

If you wait, it is ten times harder... 

 
 
 
Drakkonis
PhD Guide
2.1.3  Drakkonis  replied to  Nowhere Man @2.1.2    4 months ago
If you wait, it is ten times harder... 

Normally I would agree completely. But most bullies don't have nuclear weapons. It won't do much good to be right among irradiated ruins. 

 
 
 
Dig
PhD Guide
2.2  seeder  Dig  replied to  evilgenius @2    4 months ago

That would really be a turn of events, wouldn't it?

If it happens, I wonder if they'll just strike right away or give Russia an ultimatum to withdraw first. 

 
 
 
Nowhere Man
Junior Expert
2.2.1  Nowhere Man  replied to  Dig @2.2    4 months ago
If it happens, I wonder if they'll just strike right away or give Russia an ultimatum to withdraw first. 

The question will be, does it invoke all of Nato's obligations to defend? If it does they will give Putin the option of backing out before they take any hard action...

If its an artificially limited accession, then it will probably open up more direct avenues of aid to include offensive weaponry and a military no flight zone over Ukraine...

Seriously painting Russia into a cage...

 
 
 
evilgenius
PhD Guide
2.2.2  evilgenius  replied to  Dig @2.2    4 months ago

I'm assuming it if it's something as serious as admitting Ukraine there would be a news press release that a "vote would be held in the next few days" and a leak saying it would be probable and then any number of talking heads discussing what that means until we really know the details. The details would most likely be a ramp up of help like NM lays out @ 2.2.1.

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
Professor Silent
2.2.3  Mark in Wyoming   replied to  Nowhere Man @2.2.1    4 months ago

BIG IF on any of it happening , but if it does , there likely will be a set time limit on being seen headed out  (24 hrs at most) but then i would be concerned of the old russian tactic of 
"scorched earth" policy , much like was seen during sadams exit from Kuwait.

lets not forget , Russians control Chernobyl at the moment .

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
2.3  Krishna  replied to  evilgenius @2    4 months ago
The NATO cabinet will meet tomorrow. Among other things they will discuss the immediate inclusion of Ukraine. 

Putin was afraid that Ukraine would join NATO-- and was worried about so many nations already being members.

So he went to war on Ukraine.

But here's the irony-- as a direct result of Putins actions, it may end up that not one but three more nations will be joining NATO: Ukraine, Finland, and Sweden!

(And despite all the praise Trumph has given him, it turns out out that he is a real dummkof after all)

 
 
 
Drakkonis
PhD Guide
2.4  Drakkonis  replied to  evilgenius @2    4 months ago
The NATO cabinet will meet tomorrow. Among other things they will discuss the immediate inclusion of Ukraine. 

I am, of course, hardly qualified to give much of an opinion, but I feel including them at this time would be a mistake. If what the media is telling us is accurate, we already have Putin under an incredible amount of pressure already. Also, whether just propaganda or serious consideration, intelligence experts are apparently trying to gage whether Putin has gone around the bend or not. I don't know if his people in the silos and subs would follow his orders if he attempted to burn down the world but I don't want to chance it. Most likely those silos and subs are on lockdown and who knows what they are being told about what's going on in the world. For all we know they're being told NATO is about to launch themselves. 

At the moment, it seems as if most of the world, both governmental and private, is initiating sanctions on Russia. Apparently the Ruble is worth less than a penny. Even if Russia takes Ukraine, they're going to be seriously screwed by the international community like no one has ever before. I think we should wait and see what effect that has, for now. 

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
3  Ender    4 months ago

I think putin is painting himself into a corner with no way out. With unrest in Russia and around the world. I read this morning they arrested about 6k people in Russia.

What he is doing is not sustainable and I am afraid he will lash out like a cornered dog.

He is a danger to his own country and needs to be removed from any office. Jailed for war crimes would be nice.

 
 
 
Dig
PhD Guide
3.1  seeder  Dig  replied to  Ender @3    4 months ago
Jailed for war crimes would be nice.

I think I heard somewhere that a war crimes trial is already being discussed. Attacking a peaceful neighbor and killing innocent people is certainly reason for one.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
3.2  Krishna  replied to  Ender @3    4 months ago
He is a danger to his own country and needs to be removed from any office. Jailed for war crimes would be nice.

Personally I'd prefer to see a targeted assassination-- that would really send a strong message to potential despots-- after all, rich and powerful people have been known to escape imprisonment.

(But maybe that's just me... jrSmiley_26_smiley_image.gif )

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
3.3  Krishna  replied to  Ender @3    4 months ago
Jailed for war crimes would be nice.

IIRC-- as a result of the Nurnberg trials-- weren't some of Hitler's top henchmen hanged?

 
 
 
mocowgirl
Professor Quiet
4  mocowgirl    4 months ago

Will the Ukrainians that are fleeing instead of fighting be welcome back when this is over?  Or will the US and other countries welcome them as permanent refugees?

I only ask because one of our Ukrainian immigrants is currently in the process of fleeing the Ukraine to get back to the US and safety.

DWTS' Maksim Chmerkovskiy plans to leave Ukraine after getting arrested following Russian invasion | Daily Mail Online

US 'Dancing with the Stars' professional Maksim Chmerkovskiy reveals he got arrested in Ukraine and is now trying to flee the country after Russian invasion: 'It was a reality check'

  • Father-of-one DWTS US pro was in his native Ukraine working as a judge on their Dancing With The Stars show 
  • Chmerkovskiy has provided his Instagram followers with regular updates from Ukraine since the Russian invasion
  • On Monday morning, he posted a video revealing he'd been arrested but said it was the 'least traumatizing moment in this whole thing as far as Ukraine is concerned' 
  • He said he'll be disappearing from social media while he attempts to flee  
 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
4.1  Kavika   replied to  mocowgirl @4    4 months ago

Three-weight boxing world champion Vasyl Lomachenko posts picture of himself in full Ukrainian military uniform after returning to his home country to enlist in the territorial army and help fight off Russian troops

 
 
 
Nowhere Man
Junior Expert
4.1.1  Nowhere Man  replied to  Kavika @4.1    4 months ago

Patriots returning home to fight the good fight... That always warms the hearts of defenders....

I think Ukrainian moral is high with no signs of deterioration...

 
 
 
mocowgirl
Professor Quiet
4.1.2  mocowgirl  replied to  Kavika @4.1    4 months ago

The Ukraine is depending on its citizens to defend its country and the world is hoping the Russian soldiers will at least not obey orders to deploy nuclear weapons.

Which usually triumphs?  The will to survive or nationalism?

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
4.1.3  Kavika   replied to  mocowgirl @4.1.2    4 months ago

Fighting for your home is a very powerful motivator as the Ukrainians are showing. 

As for nuclear weapons that is the wild card.

 
 
 
mocowgirl
Professor Quiet
4.1.4  mocowgirl  replied to  Kavika @4.1.3    4 months ago
Fighting for your home is a very powerful motivator as the Ukrainians are showing. 

Thank you for your thoughtful response.

Some of the Ukrainians are fighting for their home and some have to flee in an attempt to survive.   

This is an aspect of human behavior that I have seen very harshly judged throughout history, especially among males.  

This is why I asked the question about if it would be safe for those who did not fight to return.

I am considering the hatred might be even more pronounced than many US citizens had for the draft dodgers during and after the Vietnam War.

If so, what is the responsibility of the world to ensure the lifelong safety of the refugees?

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
4.1.5  Kavika   replied to  mocowgirl @4.1.4    4 months ago
Some of the Ukrainians are fighting for their home and some have to flee in an attempt to survive.   

Men ages 18 to 60 are required to stay and from what I've seen so far not many are trying to leave. Additionally, many women are staying and fighting as well. 

This is why I asked the question about if it would be safe for those who did not fight to return.

I don't know, from the courage that I've seen from men and women, young and old I don't believe that they would be welcomed back to the country.

If so, what is the responsibility of the world to ensure the lifelong safety of the refugees?

Currently, countries bordering Ukraine are taking in thousands of refugees, (women/children/elders) I believe they see it as a moral obligation.

 
 
 
mocowgirl
Professor Quiet
4.1.6  mocowgirl  replied to  Kavika @4.1.5    4 months ago
I don't know, from the courage that I've seen from men and women, young and old I don't believe that they would be welcomed back to the country.

I agree.

This is why I am hoping that whoever is being paid to oversee the US refugee program is working on possible scenarios to relocate the Ukrainian refugees who won't be welcome (at least in the near future) in their country.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
4.1.7  Krishna  replied to  Kavika @4.1.3    4 months ago
As for nuclear weapons that is the wild card.

I could be wrong, but I doubt that Putin will actually choose to use nukes.

(For starters if he uses them in a bordering country, the fallout will greatly effect Russia.

But what worries me more than Putindeciding touse them is the possibility of accidents . . . 

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
4.1.8  Krishna  replied to  mocowgirl @4.1.2    4 months ago
Which usually triumphs?

Both..in combination!

 
 
 
evilgenius
PhD Guide
4.2  evilgenius  replied to  mocowgirl @4    4 months ago
Will the Ukrainians that are fleeing instead of fighting be welcome back when this is over?  Or will the US and other countries welcome them as permanent refugees?

No one knows how this will end, how long it will take OR what will happen when it's over. Those questions are a bit premature at this point. 

I only ask because one of our Ukrainian immigrants is currently in the process of fleeing the Ukraine to get back to the US and safety.

Ukrainian men from 16 to 60 are being compelled to fight for their country. Women and non-Ukrainians with children are given priority on train space to Poland. Non-Ukrainian single men are either having to walk or wait at the train station for spaces out. 

 
 
 
Nowhere Man
Junior Expert
4.2.1  Nowhere Man  replied to  evilgenius @4.2    4 months ago
Ukrainian single men are either having to walk or wait at the train station for spaces out. 

They are not forcing the ones not willing to fight to stay... That is very good... A huge departure from the Russian model...

Very fair.... And indicative of a people who love individual choice...

Let Freedom Ring!

 
 
 
mocowgirl
Professor Quiet
4.2.2  mocowgirl  replied to  evilgenius @4.2    4 months ago
Those questions are a bit premature at this point. 

I doubt that they are to the Ukranian people who are fighting for or leaving the Ukraine.

Do you really believe the world (outside the US) will continue to require their young men fight wars and their citizens pay for wars for countries like Iraq and Afghanistan if there isn't a realistic beneficial outcome for all involved?

How does the world pick and choose which wars to support and which ones to ignore?

Russia and Ukraine hasn't even been added to the following list of the countries at war in 2022.

Countries Currently At War 2022 (worldpopulationreview.com) There are several countries at war due to a terrorist insurgency:  Algeria Burkina Faso Cameroon Chad , the Democratic  Republic of the Congo Iraq  (also political unrest),  Libya  (also civil war),  Mali  (also civil war),  Mozambique Niger Nigeria Tanzania , and  Tunisia Colombia Myanmar , and  Syria  are in the midst of civil wars, as well as Libya and Mali. Colombia's war is also a drug war.  South Sudan  is at war due to ethnic violence.

 
 
 
evilgenius
PhD Guide
4.2.3  evilgenius  replied to  Nowhere Man @4.2.1    4 months ago

They are not forcing the ones not willing to fight to stay...

I thought I'd heard earlier they were sending fighting aged men back to fight. For sure not everything we are hearing is always accurate.
 
 
 
Nowhere Man
Junior Expert
4.2.4  Nowhere Man  replied to  evilgenius @4.2.3    4 months ago
I thought I'd heard earlier they were sending fighting aged men back to fight. For sure not everything we are hearing is always accurate.
I suspect this is very very true, we are getting our info for the most part third and fourth hand....

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Masters Principal
4.2.5  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  evilgenius @4.2.3    4 months ago
Fighting-age Ukrainian men have been ordered to stay behind as tens of thousands of civilians flee the country amid intensified fighting. Ukraine announced late Thursday that men between the ages of 18 and 60 were forbidden from leaving the nation, which has been under martial law since the start of the Russian invasion.

 
 
 
Nowhere Man
Junior Expert
4.2.6  Nowhere Man  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @4.2.5    4 months ago

Conflicting reports my friend, who do we believe?

 
 
 
evilgenius
PhD Guide
4.2.7  evilgenius  replied to  mocowgirl @4.2.2    4 months ago
I doubt that they are to the Ukranian people who are fighting for or leaving the Ukraine.

When you find someone that can tell the future then ask them those questions? 

Do you really believe the world (outside the US) will continue to require their young men fight wars and their citizens pay for wars for countries like Iraq and Afghanistan if there isn't a realistic beneficial outcome for all involved?

WTF does that have to do with Ukraine? Russia/Putin has done more in 4 days to strengthen NATO than the US has done in a decade. 

How does the world pick and choose which wars to support and which ones to ignore?

That's a question people have been asking each other for 3000 years. Answers are more often than not tied to politics and economics.

Russia and Ukraine hasn't even been added to the following list of the countries at war in 2022.

What's your point here? It's only been 4 days. Do we need to wait until someone somewhere updates some list before we recognize, and support (or not), what's going on? 

From your posts here and in other seeds I've read, I suspect you don't support US intervention on the part of Ukraine - You are fully entitled to your opinions. The reality is far more complicated than just do nothing. We are signatories to NATO and we also have too many trade ties to Europe to ignore them. NATO has officially asked for defensive help with some NATO countries officially invoking Article 4 for protection.

Both Russia and China want to destabilize the political and economic power of the US. I'm sure some Americans would agree with the idea of America being more insular and letting Europe tend to Europe, but this comes with a huge economic impacts. 

 
 
 
mocowgirl
Professor Quiet
4.2.8  mocowgirl  replied to  evilgenius @4.2.7    4 months ago
Both Russia and China want to destabilize the political and economic power of the US.

I agree.  

Which is why I believe it is best to answer a lot of questions before rushing headlong into another war.

These are just a few of the questions that I believe that US media should be answering on an ongoing basis so US citizens can begin to make informed decisions on US foreign policy.

How much money does the US owe China?  Where is the US going to borrow more money to fight more wars?  

Do we have all of the weapons and access to the raw materials to make more weapons to fight wars with Russia and the eventually China?

What have we learned about keeping peace in Europe after WWII?  What have we, as a nation, done to expand peace instead of war?  

Was moving our manufacturing outside of the US a way to prevent war to concentrate wealth in the hands of the few inside the US and create social unrest?

China (and other nations) has bought a substantial amount of farmland and industry inside the US.  Are we giving leverage to those nations on what we can and cannot support without harming US citizens?

China is buying billions in US farmland and lawmakers are scrambling to try to stop them | American Military News

As of the start of 2020, Chinese investors owned about 192,000 acres of U.S. agricultural land valued at about $1.9 billion,  according to  Politico. While Chinese land ownership in the U.S. is less than that of other foreign nations, the growth in Chinese land ownership is part of an overall trend in China rapidly buying up other country’s farmland over more than a decade.

As of the start of 2020, Chinese investors owned about 192,000 acres of U.S. agricultural land valued at about $1.9 billion,   according to   Politico. While Chinese land ownership in the U.S. is less than that of other foreign nations, the growth in Chinese land ownership is part of an overall trend in China rapidly buying up other country’s farmland over more than a decade.

In 2018, the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA)  reported  that China’s agricultural investments in other nations had grown more than tenfold what they had

The extensive Chinese land holdings in the U.S. have stirred calls to cut China off and stem the potential U.S. reliance on those Chinese landowners from both sides of the political aisle.

It is far easier to manipulate an uninformed citizenry than an informed one.  Unfortunately, most of us don't have either the time or inclination to be truly informed on what is happening in our country.  Keeping up with what is happening in the world is impossible.

So as you noted, it has been 4 days.  How many US citizens know much, if any, more about the history and citizens of the Ukraine than they did 4 days ago and should wholeheartedly rush into supporting sending young men to die in a conflict that they don't understand at all?

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
4.2.9  Tessylo  replied to  Nowhere Man @4.2.6    4 months ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Nowhere Man
Junior Expert
4.2.10  Nowhere Man  impassed  Tessylo @4.2.9    4 months ago
✋🏼
 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
4.2.11  Texan1211  replied to  Tessylo @4.2.9    4 months ago
You all wouldn't be who I would believe!

I believe you believe all the swill that the DNC, MSNBC, and CNN can deliver to you for daily consumption, without regard to truth and facts.

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
Professor Guide
4.2.12  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  evilgenius @4.2    4 months ago

Prisoners are also being released to fight because it is their country also.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
4.2.13  Krishna  replied to  evilgenius @4.2.3    4 months ago
I thought I'd heard earlier they were sending fighting aged men back to fight. For sure not everything we are hearing is always accurate.

I've heard the same thing from several "usually reliable sources".

And of course women and children can leave.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
4.2.14  Krishna  replied to  evilgenius @4.2.7    4 months ago
From your posts here and in other seeds I've read, I suspect you don't support US intervention on the part of Ukraine

And to further complicate things-- different people mean different things when they say "intervene". Some countries want to be 100% neutral-- they won't even send weapons. (Some might not even send food and medicine. Some won't even accept refugees. They want to stay out of it completely).

Others won't send soldiers to fight-- but their "intervention" will be to send weapons.

And when others say "intervene" they mean actually sending in their armed forces. (And some won't do that-- but will allow their citizens to volunteer to fight).

(As I'm sure you aware-- all countries- as well as all individuals-- don't think exactly alike-- and some have different prejudices, loyalties, religious views tha others),.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
4.2.15  Krishna  replied to  mocowgirl @4.2.8    4 months ago
Was moving our manufacturing outside of the US a way to prevent war to concentrate wealth in the hands of the few inside the US and create social unrest?

Again, that question itself would call for an answer that would be an over-generalization.

However in most cases that I'm aware of, moving American corporations outside of the U.S. was not a gov't decision but rather a decision of individual corporations who did it. And the reason?

Basically, businesses have several goals-- one of which is to be profitable. They wanted to make money.. and those that were wanted to make more. (The majority of people don't want to work if they're not earning money (or if they are making very little for the work they do)>.

. And the reasoni s quite simple; if the "cost of doing business' was significantly cheaper elsewhere than it in the U>S>-- ofthen corporations would move there!

(Seems obvious to me-- but maybe I'm missing something?)

 
 
 
Moose Knuckle
Freshman Participates
5  Moose Knuckle    4 months ago

All you gun ho battle ready weekend keyboard warriors might want to rethink taking up a small arms fight in a foreign country for Ukraine.  The Russian army has not really started their assault on Kyiv, they are staging and awaiting heavy weaponry.  The Ukrainians are about to get rolled, don't get rolled thinking you can make a difference.

Take lots of pictures, post them on Newstalkers before you die if you decide to be an idiot.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
5.1  Kavika   replied to  Moose Knuckle @5    4 months ago

The US/British vets going to Ukraine are not a bunch of weekend warriors all are ex-special forces so there is that. 

Georgians that have joined the Ukrainians are hardened combat troops.

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
Professor Guide
5.1.1  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Kavika @5.1    4 months ago

If I could, I would go also.  But it would be to help set up field hospitals as that is where my expertise is from my 23 years in the Army.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
5.1.2  devangelical  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @5.1.1    4 months ago

I know how to operate trenchers and wood chippers, so I could be assigned to a russian POW camp... /s

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
5.1.3  Trout Giggles  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @5.1.1    4 months ago

I can do air sampling if chemical weapons are deployed

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
5.2  Trout Giggles  replied to  Moose Knuckle @5    4 months ago

Name one person here who has said they are going to Ukraine with their small arms. For starters...how are they going to get to Ukraine?

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
Professor Guide
5.2.1  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Trout Giggles @5.2    4 months ago

My guess would be to land in Germany and then go by ground transport into The Ukraine.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
5.2.2  Trout Giggles  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @5.2.1    4 months ago

How are they going to get a weapon on an aircraft and then transport that weapon to Poland?

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
5.2.3  devangelical  replied to  Trout Giggles @5.2.2    4 months ago

they'll say they're hunters, they all go hunting with their AR's, dontcha know...

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
Professor Guide
5.2.4  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Trout Giggles @5.2.2    4 months ago

Arms can go commercial if they are not in carry on and if cleared by the airline and checked in through them (ie - participants in shooting events during the Olympics)

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
5.2.5  Trout Giggles  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @5.2.4    4 months ago

Didn't think of that. Thanks

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
Professor Silent
5.2.6  Mark in Wyoming   replied to  Trout Giggles @5.2    4 months ago
For starters...how are they going to get to Ukraine?

Educated guess would be if they go through the process, outlined , they would be given some form of paperwork, from there it would be a matter of a plane flight .

 list of countries that border Ukraine they could enter the country from are  Poland ,Slovakia ,Hungary, Romania and Moldova  from north to south .all on the western border .

 other thing is how hard would it be to make a border crossing ?

Something not mentioned is US law and how these people would be viewed , technically they would be mercenaries , so US law pertaining to that would apply so checking with the US state dept might be a good idea.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
5.2.7  Trout Giggles  replied to  Mark in Wyoming @5.2.6    4 months ago

Good info.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
5.2.8  devangelical  replied to  Trout Giggles @5.2.5    4 months ago

you'd want a weapon that uses ammo common to that region, 7.62x39, for obvious reasons...

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Principal
5.2.9  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Mark in Wyoming @5.2.6    4 months ago

Under what US Law would these volunteers be "technically" viewed as mercenaries?  

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
Professor Silent
5.2.10  Mark in Wyoming   replied to  Drinker of the Wry @5.2.9    4 months ago

same ones they used when US citizens went and joined AQ or ISiS. things can get a bit convoluted and murky .

thing is the way things are , the government can pull and do anything out of their bag of laws , it will depend on if the government wants to go after it or not .

 that is why i said it is better to check and know than go on an assumption.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Principal
5.2.12  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Mark in Wyoming @5.2.10    4 months ago

Those that joined ISIS were charged with violation of:

18 U.S. Code § 2339B - Providing material support or resources to designated foreign terrorist organizations

The Ukraine isn't a designated terrorist organization.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Principal
5.2.13  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  devangelical @5.2.8    4 months ago

Should be a lot of that laying around now.

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
Professor Guide
5.2.14  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Trout Giggles @5.2.5    4 months ago

I used to work airport security in AK.  You would not believe the things checked in.  There was everything from hunting rifles, black powder guns, hand guns, grappling hooks, and massive hunting knives.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
5.2.15  Krishna  replied to  Trout Giggles @5.2    4 months ago
Name one person here who has said they are going to Ukraine with their small arms.

Well, he's entitled to his opinion.

C'mon. He's made up his mind.

Don't confuse him with the truth!

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
5.2.16  Krishna  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @5.2.1    4 months ago
My guess would be to land in Germany and then go by ground transport into The Ukraine.

OK.

Or maybe Poland, which is closer. (It actually border Ukraine...and the Poles are no fans of Putin, having lived under Russian oppresion...(off and on for centuries). So my guess is that they'd be quite sympathetic.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
5.2.17  Krishna  replied to  devangelical @5.2.8    4 months ago
you'd want a weapon that uses ammo common to that region, 7.62x39, for obvious reasons...

I wonder if you'd even have to bring a weapon. Of course you have to check first, but my guess is that bordering countries that are not too fond of Russia (Poland, for one) might be only to glad to sell you a weapon and ammunition if they knew you were going to fight Putin.???

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
5.2.18  Krishna  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @5.2.9    4 months ago
Under what US Law would these volunteers be "technically" viewed as mercenaries?

OMG-- a blast from the past!

Long time no see-- how you been Drinker of the Wry?

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
Professor Silent
5.2.19  Mark in Wyoming   replied to  Drinker of the Wry @5.2.12    4 months ago

And like i said , its better to check the legalities with those that would know , do i know for sure what would happen ? no , but If i decided i were to do something like this , i would at least check what some of the issues could be and how they are normally handled , 

and thats the point i am making .

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
PhD Guide
5.2.20  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @5.2.4    4 months ago

I've taken deploying Soldiers to the local Airport with military weapons (M240B, M2 Browning, etc).  With the proper documents it's not hard to get them on the plane.  

Hell, if you could get enough people together you could charter a plane and hand carry the weapons.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Principal
5.2.21  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Krishna @5.2.18    4 months ago

Doing well, thank you Krishna.  I've had an unusual journey starting with a Stage 4 cancer diagnosis in June 2020.  My family and I experienced many chemo sessions, several hospitalizations and the mother of all surgeries. I am now cancer free and regaining my strength.

I was so fortunate to have a supportive family and network of friends and co-workers, an excellent medical team and a good underlying health condition.  I'll never be the same as I was before that diagnosis, but I'm so happy and appreciative that I have this opportunity to continue living and loving.  

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
Professor Guide
5.2.22  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @5.2.9    4 months ago

It is good to see you again.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Principal
5.2.23  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @5.2.22    4 months ago

Thanks, it's good to be back.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
5.3  Krishna  replied to  Moose Knuckle @5    4 months ago
All you gun ho battle ready weekend keyboard warriors might want to rethink taking up a small arms fight in a foreign country for Ukraine.

That's a bit of an over-generalization, doncha think? 

All?

OK. I'll admit it. I'm one of those "gun ho battle ready weekend keyboard warriors" of which you speak.

And (this may come as a shock to many people) there's no way I want to traipse off to some foreign country to fight-- and possible die.

Country Joe & the Fish -- Vietnam song

(But maybe that's just me-- maybe all the rest want to go fight and die in Ukraine. Heck-- I've always been somewhat of a non-conformist!)

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
PhD Guide
6  Jeremy Retired in NC    4 months ago

Want to go fight for Ukraine?  I'd say enlist in the US Military but we already know that a good 70%+ of Americans don't meet the minimum requirements for enlistment.

 
 
 
Moose Knuckle
Freshman Participates
6.1  Moose Knuckle  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @6    4 months ago

The media has done an incredible sales job on this one. Surely with no experience you can fly to Poland, walk across the border and use an ak-47 for the first time. They might even provide you with a size 44 pair of camo pants. Hopefully they have meds for type 2 diabetes available.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
PhD Guide
6.1.1  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Moose Knuckle @6.1    4 months ago

As funny as it may be, I'm sure there are thousands of vets who would take up this offer.  With the lack of political interference like we had in Afghanistan and Iraq, they would reek havoc on the Russians with no problems.

 
 
 
Moose Knuckle
Freshman Participates
6.1.2  Moose Knuckle  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @6.1.1    4 months ago

Until then I can't stop watching the wokes virtue signal on twitter about it. It's pure internet gold!

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
6.1.3  Tessylo  replied to  Moose Knuckle @6.1.2    4 months ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
6.1.4  Krishna  replied to  Moose Knuckle @6.1    4 months ago
The media has done an incredible sales job on this one.

Indeed.

Especially the more woke Media sites- - such as the far-left New York Post!

Ukrainian officials parade captured Russian soldiers, videos show

Ukrainian officials have been posting dozens of videos and photos online parading captured bloodied Russian soldiers, including some fighters who claimed they didn’t know they were being sent to invade.

Other videos included several of the Russians calling their relatives to inform them they had been detained.

A number of the captured Russian soldiers were injured, including some filmed lying in hospital beds as they spoke.

Dozens of Russian soldiers have surrendered to the armed forces of Ukraine in Kharkiv.

Moscow on Monday  refused to disclose how many Russian soldiers had been killed  — or captured — since President Vladimir Putin gave the orders to invade Ukraine.

-->Actual Photos

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
6.2  Krishna  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @6    4 months ago
Want to go fight for Ukraine?  I'd say enlist in the US Military

Do you really think U.S. military troops are fighting there. now or will be in the near future?

Well, you may be right.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
PhD Guide
6.2.1  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Krishna @6.2    4 months ago

I know they aren't.  Helps to have friends in the senior HQ of particular units.

 
 
 
Freefaller
Professor Participates
7  Freefaller    4 months ago

While any warm body that can fire a weapon and is not a complete kook would be welcome.  I do wonder how many would be screaming to be rescued after the first week or two.  War is not a video game

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
7.1  Kavika   replied to  Freefaller @7    4 months ago

The US/British heading to Ukraine are ex special forces and combat infantry at last count there were 110 of them. The Georgians have a fairly large number of hardened combat vets already in Ukraine. (Georgia National League)

Interesting article on the huge numbers of Ukrainians coming from all over Europe to defend the homeland.

 
 
 
Freefaller
Professor Participates
7.1.1  Freefaller  replied to  Kavika @7.1    4 months ago

Oh I have no doubt there will be some well qualified people heading over but there will also  be some delusional types at least trying to go

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
7.1.2  Kavika   replied to  Freefaller @7.1.1    4 months ago
but there will also  be some delusional types at least trying to go

No doubt there will be.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Principal
7.2  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Freefaller @7    4 months ago

"War is not a video game" unless you're a MQ-1 Predator or MQ-9 Reaper drone operator. 

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
8  Ronin2    4 months ago

They forgot one very important thing on their list on joining Ukraine for the fight.

Most important: If you are a US (or NATO country) citizen make sure to take all identification and drop it into the nearest fire and destroy it completely upon reaching Ukraine. Putin is a nut job. He starts seeing US/NATO country ID's among the dead and captured he is going to completely lose it. Some of us don't feel like glowing in the dark for the next century or two because some keyboard warriors decided to test their chops in Ukraine.  

If you somehow manage to survive what is to come you can reapply for identification at the nearest US Embassy; who can put you on the terror watch list while checking to confirm you are indeed a US citizen. And not some far right Ukrainian nationalist or criminal they released to fight trying to steal your ID.

 
 

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