If Abortion Is Murder

  

Category:  News & Politics

By:  john-russell  •  2 weeks ago  •  62 comments

If Abortion Is Murder


If abortion is murder, how can it be turned over to the states to decide whether or not it should be outlawed?

Are individual states allowed to decide whether or not murder is illegal? 

If abortion is not murder, why is it being banned anywhere? 


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JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1  author  JohnRussell    2 weeks ago

The "states rights" ploy is just the beginning. If abortion is not banned in every state there is no logic whatsoever to the conservative position. 

 
 
 
gooseisback
Freshman Silent
1.1  gooseisback  replied to  JohnRussell @1    2 weeks ago
If abortion is murder,

JR where do you come up with this stuff?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1.1.1  author  JohnRussell  replied to  gooseisback @1.1    2 weeks ago

why? [Deleted]

 
 
 
gooseisback
Freshman Silent
1.1.2  gooseisback  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1.1    2 weeks ago
why? does it hurt your head

It doesn't JR, every state looks at it differently Texas 6 weeks to New York doesn't appear to have any limit, so to call abortion murder is incorrect.  On the other hand why do prosecutors include the life of the unborn child of pregnant mother when charging someone with a crime if the unborn child dies because of their actions.   

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
1.1.3  Ronin2  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1.1    2 weeks ago

No, because the answer is so far beyond your pay grade it isn't even funny.

We haven't progress far enough as a species to know when life actually begins; so erring on the side of caution (instead of emotional BS) would be smart.

Why not follow Western Europe's example in abortions? Since the left love to rave about their healthcare. Germany would be a  good example to follow.

In Germany , abortion for any reason is permitted in the first 12 weeks of pregnancy . But the law requires counseling at a state-approved center and a three-day waiting period before the procedure can take place.  The European Union’s most populous country, with 83 million people, Germany permits late-term abortions in cases of rape or if the physical or psychological health of the mother is considered at risk of serious harm.

You were saying about Republicans being strict on abortion? I can only imagine the screaming from the left if the US adopted such a plan. Only 12 weeks for any reason; and even then requires counseling at a state approved center; and a 3 day waiting period. The Germans think that the baby is a gun or something.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1.1.4  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Ronin2 @1.1.3    2 weeks ago

You havent answered my question. 

I've never heard a right to life person say that we are banning abortion to err on the side of caution. They usually say life begins at conception. There is nothing vague about that conclusion. 

If abortion is so inhumanly wrong, why does Alito say we will leave it up to the states to decide? That makes no sense. 

The answer is that they have no intention of leaving it up to the states to decide, in the long run. 

 
 
 
gooseisback
Freshman Silent
1.1.5  gooseisback  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1.4    2 weeks ago
If abortion is so inhumanly wrong, why does Alito say we will leave it up to the states to decide?

Because Alito is a Judge, even though he finds it "inhumanly wrong he realizes he doesn't make the laws, that's not his job. Therefore he has given it to the state to decide. You haven't replied regarding charging someone with a crime if the unborn child dies because of their actions

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1.1.6  author  JohnRussell  replied to  gooseisback @1.1.5    2 weeks ago

No anti-abortion right winger believes states should decide. If they did, they would be saying that they are not sure if it is wrong. 

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
1.1.7  Sean Treacy  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1.6    2 weeks ago

No anti-abortion right winger believes states should decide. 

I believe states should decide and I think abortion is wrong. .

 
 
 
gooseisback
Freshman Silent
1.1.8  gooseisback  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1.6    2 weeks ago
No anti-abortion right winger believes states should decide. 
I believe states should decide and I think abortion is wrong. .

hat tip Sean

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.1.9  Vic Eldred  replied to  gooseisback @1.1.8    2 weeks ago

Anyone who believes in the Constitution believes the states should decide.

 
 
 
Gsquared
Junior Principal
1.1.10  Gsquared  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.9    2 weeks ago

Everyone who believes in the Constitution knows it was already decided on January 22, 1973.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.1.11  Vic Eldred  replied to  Gsquared @1.1.10    2 weeks ago

RBG disagreed.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
1.1.12  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1.4    2 weeks ago
The answer is that they have no intention of leaving it up to the states to decide, in the long run. 

You are 100% correct. There is already a movement to make a law to outlaw all abortions in any state.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
1.1.13  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.11    2 weeks ago

Vic are you against the right to choose, or just how it became law?

RBG was not against the right to choose.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
1.1.14  Dulay  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.11    2 weeks ago

That statement is so ridiculous it isn't even worth asking you to support it Vic. 

 
 
 
arkpdx
PhD Participates
1.1.15  arkpdx  replied to  Gsquared @1.1.10    2 weeks ago

There have been other SCOTUS decisions that have been made that have overturned over the years. Do you want to go back to the times that before they were?

 
 
 
Gsquared
Junior Principal
1.1.16  Gsquared  replied to  arkpdx @1.1.15    2 weeks ago

That has nothing to do with Roe v. Wade, does it?  Answer:  No.  Nothing at all.

 
 
 
bbl-1
Professor Quiet
1.1.17  bbl-1  replied to  gooseisback @1.1    2 weeks ago

Never heard of (the states' rights) thing either?

 
 
 
bbl-1
Professor Quiet
1.1.18  bbl-1  replied to  arkpdx @1.1.15    2 weeks ago

You mean like slavery, segregation?

Constitution was always used to expand rights or freedoms, albeit oftentimes those struggles were long and hard.

This decision, Roe, if overturned, will be the FIRST TIME the court used The Constitution to remove or take away rights.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.1.19  Vic Eldred  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.1.13    2 weeks ago
Vic are you against the right to choose, or just how it became law?

The latter.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
1.2  Sean Treacy  replied to  JohnRussell @1    2 weeks ago

The conservative position is that the constitution is silent on abortion and therefore up to the people of each state to democratically decide the laws they want to live under. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1.2.1  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Sean Treacy @1.2    2 weeks ago

Is the moral judgement of abortion a matter of opinion?  So then it is not murder, and may not even be wrong? 

We both know that claiming that abortion is a great evil and then leaving it up to individual states to decide if it is allowed makes no sense. 

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
1.2.2  Sean Treacy  replied to  JohnRussell @1.2.1    2 weeks ago
Is the moral judgement of abortion a matter of opinion? 

Yes. People have a wide variety of opinions on the matter and most people recognize that. 

 both know that claiming that abortion is a great evil and then leaving it up to individual states to decide if it is allowed makes no sense.

You really need to read the Alito opinion.  You aren't making any sense.  

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1.2.3  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Sean Treacy @1.2.2    2 weeks ago

I know very well what Alito said.  He is not being honest with the people. 

People have a wide variety of opinions on the matter and most people recognize that. 

You are acting like abortion is a dry legal matter, but that is not what opposition to abortion has been based on for the last 50 years. 

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Greg Jones
Professor Guide
1.2.4  Greg Jones  replied to  JohnRussell @1.2.1    2 weeks ago

You're saying that states have no rights?

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
1.2.5  Sean Treacy  replied to  JohnRussell @1.2.3    2 weeks ago
ou are acting like abortion is a dry legal matter, b

Well, its a Supreme Court case.

 
 
 
Gulliver-Swift
Freshman Silent
1.2.6  Gulliver-Swift  replied to  JohnRussell @1.2.1    2 weeks ago

So the real point of this exercise is to dismantle the Federal Government.

 
 
 
Sunshine
Professor Guide
1.2.7  Sunshine  replied to  JohnRussell @1.2.1    2 weeks ago
Is the moral judgement of abortion a matter of opinion?  So then it is not murder, and may not even be wrong? 

You could say the same about the death penalty yet states legislate their own laws.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
1.2.8  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Sean Treacy @1.2.2    2 weeks ago

He is making sense.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
1.2.9  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Greg Jones @1.2.4    2 weeks ago
You're saying that states have no rights?

Interesting question. I am sure you are aware that there are lawmakers who are trying to take away that right, by making it against the law in the nation.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
1.2.10  Dulay  replied to  Sean Treacy @1.2    2 weeks ago

The Constitution is silent on a whole plethora of subjects.

That's an obtuse argument. 

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
1.2.11  Sean Treacy  replied to  Dulay @1.2.10    2 weeks ago

Lol. You might want think that through sport. 

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
1.2.12  Dulay  replied to  Sean Treacy @1.2.11    2 weeks ago

You first Sean. 

You know that the neither the right to life OR liberty is numerated in the Constitution right? Where does your right to vote and right to travel come from Sean? The Constitution is silent about them too. 

 
 
 
Gulliver-Swift
Freshman Silent
1.2.13  Gulliver-Swift  replied to  Dulay @1.2.10    2 weeks ago

The constitution never even mentions women.

 
 
 
bbl-1
Professor Quiet
1.2.14  bbl-1  replied to  Sean Treacy @1.2    2 weeks ago

In other words, your interpretation of the 'conservative position' on The Constitution is that the (so called) United States should be reframed as the Differential States?

In other words, the Federal government should not have the power to enforce national law for all.

 
 
 
bbl-1
Professor Quiet
1.2.15  bbl-1  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.2.9    2 weeks ago

Suppose a state wanted to 'install' apartheid? 

 
 
 
bbl-1
Professor Quiet
1.2.16  bbl-1  replied to  Gulliver-Swift @1.2.13    2 weeks ago

At the time why would it?  They could not vote.  In some 'provinces' they could not hold property.

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Professor Guide
1.2.17  Thrawn 31  replied to  Dulay @1.2.12    2 weeks ago

The majority of what we think of as our rights are never mentioned in the constitution and have in fact been established via SCOTUS precedents.  Seems a lot of people around here, and just generally, don't actually understand that. 

 
 
 
bbl-1
Professor Quiet
1.2.18  bbl-1  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.2.8    2 weeks ago

I agree.  Not with Alito though.

 
 
 
bbl-1
Professor Quiet
1.2.19  bbl-1  replied to  Thrawn 31 @1.2.17    2 weeks ago

You couldn't be referring to the MAGA, could you?

 
 
 
Gulliver-Swift
Freshman Silent
1.2.20  Gulliver-Swift  replied to  bbl-1 @1.2.16    2 weeks ago
They could not vote.  In some 'provinces' they could not hold property.

This is EXACTLY why the constitution should have mentioned women. The failure to mention women was a betrayal.

Women also fought and died for our liberation from Britain. 

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
1.3  Ozzwald  replied to  JohnRussell @1    2 weeks ago
The "states rights" ploy is just the beginning. If abortion is not banned in every state there is no logic whatsoever to the conservative position.

You and I both know that this is not truly about preventing abortion, it is merely about power.  Today's republicans want to take rights away from anyone who doesn't agree with them. 

Women's rights are just the 1st they are attacking, next will be anyone not white, male, middle aged, poor, and not wearing a red , made in China MAGA hat.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
1.3.1  Sean Treacy  replied to  Ozzwald @1.3    2 weeks ago
omen's rights are just the 1st they are attacking, next will be anyone not white, male, middle aged, poor, and not wearing a red , made in China MAGA hat.

It's amazing how little effort the abortion zealots are making to actually defend abortion. Instead it's constantly trying to scare people, with idiotic arguments, about some new danger that is sure to come because they can't stand people voting on issues. 

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Guide
1.3.2  Greg Jones  replied to  Sean Treacy @1.3.1    2 weeks ago

These zealots are nuts.

 
 
 
arkpdx
PhD Participates
1.3.3  arkpdx  replied to  Ozzwald @1.3    2 weeks ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
arkpdx
PhD Participates
1.3.4  arkpdx  replied to  arkpdx @1.3.3    2 weeks ago

[Deleted]

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
1.3.5  XXJefferson51  replied to  arkpdx @1.3.4    2 weeks ago

[Deleted]

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
1.3.6  XXJefferson51  replied to  Ozzwald @1.3    2 weeks ago

What “other” “rights” are supposedly going to be attacked next?  What other issue totally off topic to the issue of one killing their baby is next despite their clear language of the draft that clearly states NONE!  What kind of pity party are we trying to have here now that federalism rather than one size fits all fascism is about to happen.  It is a sheer joy to see the control freaks who want to dictate every thing on their terms to everyone set back at long last.  The court could have ruled a constitutional protection for all life and banned almost all abortions in all 50 states and if need be, like if the congress codifies the illegitimate decision in to federal law it should be the next step to up the ante.  

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
1.3.7  XXJefferson51  replied to  Sean Treacy @1.3.1    2 weeks ago

Exactly.  These people are finally getting what they and we all deserve and need with this decision.  

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
1.3.8  Ozzwald  replied to  XXJefferson51 @1.3.6    2 weeks ago
What other issue totally off topic to the issue of one killing their baby is next despite their clear language of the draft that clearly states NONE!

There are no babies being killed, no matter how you try to spin it.

 
 
 
bbl-1
Professor Quiet
1.3.9  bbl-1  replied to  Greg Jones @1.3.2    2 weeks ago

And that is why you people should run away from them as fast as possible.  Have a little dignity, you know.

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
1.4  XXJefferson51  replied to  JohnRussell @1    2 weeks ago

It is!  

 
 
 
Veronica
Masters Expert
2  Veronica    2 weeks ago

You and I both know that is exactly where they are going with this shit.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
2.1  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Veronica @2    2 weeks ago

Yup

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
2.2  XXJefferson51  replied to  Veronica @2    2 weeks ago

And if the idiot who is President and congress even codify the illegitimately decided case, that is exactly what should happen next.  Let California and New York live the opposite way as they would try to force everyone else!  

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Expert
3  Tacos!    2 weeks ago
Are individual states allowed to decide whether or not murder is illegal?

Yes. Each state has its own statutes that define when an act is murder or not.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
3.1  Dulay  replied to  Tacos! @3    2 weeks ago
Yes. Each state has its own statutes that define when an act is murder or not.

Yes and each state will codify whether abortion is homicide or not. Some will quickly repeal the exemption for abortions or say that it's repeal is implied by the overturning of Roe. 

Louisiana's legislature is ready to pass a bill that would prosecute the patient and the provider with murder. How many red states will follow? 

Then we have Missouri introducing legislation that criminalizes traveling to another state to procure an abortion. How many red states will follow?

But ya, nothing to see here...

 
 
 
al Jizzerror
Sophomore Expert
4  al Jizzerror    2 weeks ago

I find it amusing that the anti-abortion protagonists on this thread are pretending that abortion is NOT murder so they can sidestep the logic of this short article.

Anyone who thinks abortion IS murder should object to Alito's stupid states rights bullshit.

512

BTW, I'm eating a hard boiled embryo and I'm gonna fry it's "mommy" for dinner.

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
4.1  XXJefferson51  replied to  al Jizzerror @4    2 weeks ago

It’s not an embryo unless it is fertilized first. 

 
 
 
bbl-1
Professor Quiet
4.1.1  bbl-1  replied to  XXJefferson51 @4.1    2 weeks ago

How do you know?

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
4.1.2  XXJefferson51  replied to  bbl-1 @4.1.1    2 weeks ago
embryo
ĕm′brē-ō″

noun

  1. The collection of cells that has developed from the fertilized egg of a vertebrate animal, before all the major organs have developed.
 
 

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