DOJ facing growing criticism over Trump raid

  

Category:  Op/Ed

By:  vic-eldred  •  2 months ago  •  158 comments

DOJ facing growing criticism over Trump raid
“Full transparency is going to be when they release the affidavit. This is such a high-profile and very strange way of going about getting documents from a former president that the affidavit is going to be absolutely necessary if we’re going to have full transparency,...Sen Chuck Grassley

The link to the above quote: https://www.bizpacreview.com/2022/08/14/chuck-grassley-there-is-political-bias-within-the-fbi-when-comparing-trump-hillary-1273373/

The DOJ has had Presidential documents in their possession for almost a week and the American public has yet to learn why those documents were taken in a brazen raid that defied all the norms of how a former President is treated. We need to know exactly what documents were sought and why. Any documents that were attorney/client privilege should not have been taken. Any documents related to the numerous investigations of President Trump should not have been taken.

As of now the DOJ has been searching the documents - possibly looking for a crime. Let us not forget the FBI has a history of doing it to the former President. They lied on a FISA application and ran it over 4 times. They lied about what the Mueller Investigation was based on - the Steele Dossier and then they lied about even knowing what the Steele Dossier was. They pretended to investigate Hillary Clinton and allowed one of her goons to destroy classified documents. The IG said that the classified info that Clinton had on her server was most likely compromised. Yet here we are again. The DOJ staged an atrocious raid, convened a grand jury and has given the entire nation the impression that they are going to prosecute the former President for treason.

All of that requires the AG to tell us exactly what is going on and why. Sen Grassley wants to see the affidavit. That's how much he trusts them.

"This is the same organization that obtained warrants against Carter Page in the Russian investigation that were so flawed the court rebuked the Department of Justice," Sen. Lindsey Graham R-S.C., said at an event in South Carolina. " This is the same FBI  that had agents in charge of investigations of Trump that ignored every exculpatory matter and assumed the worst."

"At the end of the day, I know there's a tremendous burden on the Department of Justice in my view to explain their actions, and I hope they will," Graham also said. 

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-fbi-raid-garlands-doj-faces-growing-pressure-release-information-unprecedented-search



"The country deserves a thorough and immediate explanation of what led to the events of Monday," Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., said Tuesday. "Attorney General Garland and the Department of Justice should already have provided answers to the American people and must do so immediately."

McConnell was joined in demanding an explanation from the DOJ by several other top Senate Republicans,  former Democratic New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo,  former Vice President Mike Pence, House Intelligence Committee Ranking Member Mike Turner, R-Ohio, and many more. 

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-fbi-raid-garlands-doj-faces-growing-pressure-release-information-unprecedented-search


“DOJ must immediately explain the reason for its raid & it must be more than a search for inconsequential archives or it will be viewed as a political tactic and undermine any future credible investigation & legitimacy of January 6 investigations,”   Cuomo   tweeted  Tuesday morning about the raid overseen by the Department of Justice under President Joe Biden, with whom the ex-governor has shared a friendly relationship.

https://nypost.com/2022/08/09/cuomo-trashes-doj-mar-a-lago-raid-year-after-his-ouster/


Whether trump is guilty of a crime or not has become less of an issue than the heavy handed tactics of Biden's DOJ. Are we supposed to believe that two years after Donald Trump was defeated for a second term and after the FBI was at Mar-a-Lago in June, that suddenly there was need for a raid with 30 armed FBI agents?


Most rational people no longer trust Merrick Garland, the democrats and in particular the FBI.


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Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1  author  Vic Eldred    2 months ago

There are now reams of evidence that this DOJ and the FBI are partisan and dishonest.

The burden is on them to prove otherwise.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.1  TᵢG  replied to  Vic Eldred @1    2 months ago
Are we supposed to believe that two years after Donald Trump was defeated for a second term and after the FBI was at Mar-a-Lago in June, that suddenly there was need for a raid with 30 armed FBI agents?

The DoJ/FBI will either justify the search & seizure or they will fail to do so.

If they fail to do so then they will have made one of the biggest political faux pas in recent history.   They will have, in a single stroke, made Trump a martyr, got nothing for it, and encouraged his candidacy for 2024.   Major league political ramifications from one act.

If, on the other hand, this act was justified, then Trump will very likely be indicted.   More big league consequences.

Note:  it is not just members of a social media forum who recognize the profound political implications.   Common sense suggests that the DoJ/FBI were quite aware of the significance of searching the residence of a former PotUS for the first time in US history.

So let's get a grip and wait for the facts.

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Guide
1.1.1  Greg Jones  replied to  TᵢG @1.1    2 months ago

Every day that goes by without further details will show the real intent of this raid....which is blatantly obvious anyway.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.1.2  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Greg Jones @1.1.1    2 months ago

Greg do you think they have been going through a lot of documents that they know nothing about?

That warrant let them take everything. All they needed was just one document with any classification on it.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.1.3  TᵢG  replied to  Greg Jones @1.1.1    2 months ago
Every day that goes by without further details will show the real intent of this raid....which is blatantly obvious anyway.

What a perfect admission of confirmation bias.

To you, no additional information translates into confirmation of bias (what you call blatantly obvious).

Far better analysis would follow the facts to the conclusion and be willing to adjust when facts arise that contradict your bias.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.1.4  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  TᵢG @1.1    2 months ago
The DoJ/FBI will either justify the search & seizure or they will fail to do so.

They can justify the need for specific documents. That warrant was not very specific. They can never justify the type of raid they unleashed on a former President.


If they fail to do so then they will have made one of the biggest political faux pas in recent history.   They will have, in a single stroke, made Trump a martyr, got nothing for it, and encouraged his candidacy for 2024.   Major league political ramifications from one act.

What about accountability if this was another ruse?


If, on the other hand, this act was justified, then Trump will very likely be indicted.   More big league consequences.

If that's the case, I'm all for it. The consequences with be for both Trump and those who opposed him.


So let's get a grip and wait for the facts.

No, TiG, the people involved in this have a history that cannot be ignored. Transparency is needed.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.1.5  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  TᵢG @1.1.3    2 months ago

You tell us.

What on earth could justify raiding a former President in that manner?

Or for that matter the raid on Roger Stone's residence?

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.1.6  TᵢG  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.5    2 months ago
What on earth could justify raiding a former President in that manner?

I have already explained this repeatedly in other articles.

If Trump was holding classified documents that compromised national security and he was not cooperating with their return to a secured government facility that would justify securing a warrant for the FBI to enter the residence and seize the documents so they can be placed in a secure government facility.

That is one scenario.   There are plenty more.   It does not take much imagination to see circumstances where this action would be warranted.   So do not leap to the conclusion that the DoJ/FBI would engage in a politically brain-dead-stupid act of searching the private residence of a former PotUS for the first time in US history if they did not think they had justifiable cause.

Ultimately, this will either be a very serious situation for Trump or it will be one of the biggest political blunders in history.

Stay tuned for more information.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.1.7  TᵢG  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.4    2 months ago
They can never justify the type of raid they unleashed on a former President.

A conclusion you have drawn already.   Note this when you again claim you have not already drawn your conclusion.

What about accountability if this was another ruse?

Why ask this?   Do you expect me to say anything other than a political faux pas has consequences and those responsible are accountable?   

If that's the case, I'm all for it. The consequences with be for both Trump and those who opposed him.

I think you mean all those who protected him.

No, TiG, the people involved in this have a history that cannot be ignored. Transparency is needed.

Totally non sequitur.   How can you possibly not understand what it means when I wrote:  "So let's get a grip and wait for the facts.".    You say 'no' that you will not wait for the facts because the people involved have a history.   Then you say transparency is needed.    

What do you think wait for the facts means other than transparency?    Hello?

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.1.8  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  TᵢG @1.1.6    2 months ago
I have already explained this repeatedly in other articles. If Trump was holding classified documents that compromised national security and he was not cooperating with their return to a secured government facility that would justify securing a warrant for the FBI to enter the residence and seize the documents so they can be placed in a secure government facility.

And I already told you that the warrant was issued on a Friday and the raid took place on a Monday, so there was no apparent urgency for such a raid.


That is one scenario.   There are plenty more.   It does not take much imagination to see circumstances where this action would be warranted.

No TiG, there are no circumstances that called for that type of raid. Two fucking unarmed agents could have accomplished the same errand.


 So do not leap to the conclusion that the DoJ/FBI would engage in a politically brain-dead-stupid act of searching the private residence of a former PotUS for the first time in US history if they did not think they had justifiable cause.

You are deliberately ignoring the nature of a raid.


Ultimately, this will either be a very serious situation for Trump or it will be one of the biggest political blunders in history.

Ultimately it will be an indictment for Trump or what should be an indictment for Garland. In the meantime, a former President was purposely embarrassed.


Stay tuned for more information.

Let us know if they finally find something

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.1.9  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  TᵢG @1.1.7    2 months ago
A conclusion you have drawn already.   Note this when you again claim you have not already drawn your conclusion.

Yes, TiG THAT MUCH I CAN CONCLUDE! They acted with malice. Absolutely


 Note this when you again claim you have not already drawn your conclusion.

Now you are conflating. I have not concluded anything on the case against Trump..


Why ask this?   Do you expect me to say anything other than a political faux pas has consequences and those responsible are accountable?  

I expect you to stand up like the man of integrity, that you tell us you are, and call for charges to be filed. You seem to be satisfied with them eating humble pie. 


I think you mean all those who protected him.

Nope, I meant what I said. If Trump goes down DeSantis has an easy road to the nomination and an easier road to the Presidency. The democrats only hope was to keep Trump on the ballot.


What do you think wait for the facts means other than transparency?    Hello?

Time is on the side of those who intend to fudge the facts.   Goodbye!

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.1.10  TᵢG  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.8    2 months ago
And I already told you that the warrant was issued on a Friday and the raid took place on a Monday, so there was no apparent urgency for such a raid.

With this you conclude the raid was unjustified??    

No TiG, there are no circumstances that called for that type of raid.

You continue to presume to know the details leading up to this search & seizure and categorically dismiss any scenario where this is justified.    

You are deliberately ignoring the nature of a raid.

How so?   Did you not read what you quoted?   Here, Vic, I will repeat it for you:

TiG@1.1.6 So do not leap to the conclusion that the DoJ/FBI would engage in a politically brain-dead-stupid act of searching the private residence of a former PotUS for the first time in US history if they did not think they had justifiable cause.

At least read what you quote.

In the meantime, a former President was purposely embarrassed.

You do not know that Trump was purposely embarrassed; that the intent was to embarrass him.   You cannot possibly know the intent of the DoJ/FBI.    Also, they conducted their operation in secrecy;  it was Trump that broadcast this to the world.   Go with facts and tone down the presumption.

Let us know if they finally find something

Why do you need me to tell you?   Pay attention to the facts and try to resist leaping to conclusions based on bias and conspiracy drives.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.1.11  TᵢG  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.9    2 months ago
Yes, TiG THAT MUCH I CAN CONCLUDE! They acted with malice. Absolutely

Okay, make your supporting argument.   Explain how the DoJ/FBI intentionally acted to cause harm to Trump.   When a cop pulls you over for running a red light, do you presume he intentionally acted to cause harm to you?   If the DoJ/FBI has justification for search & seize do you translate that into an intent to do harm to Trump or the intent to do what is right for the USA?

I have not concluded anything on the case against Trump..

You just deemed the actions of the DoJ/FBI to be malice!   That means you "absolutely" hold that they intentionally sought to harm Trump and that presumes that Trump did nothing to warrant this action.   You cannot be so conclusive that the DoJ/FBI were wrong without drawing conclusions on the case against Trump.   These are connected at the hip.

I expect you to stand up like the man of integrity, that you tell us you are, and call for charges to be filed. You seem to be satisfied with them eating humble pie. 

You need to stop presuming.   I stated they would be held accountable.   Do I have to enumerate specific consequences for you to understand what that means?     

You are grasping at straws.

Time is on the side of those who intend to fudge the facts.   Goodbye!

And yet again you illustrate that your conclusions far outreach the facts.

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
1.1.12  bugsy  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.8    2 months ago
And I already told you that the warrant was issued on a Friday and the raid took place on a Monday, so there was no apparent urgency for such a raid.

Actually, it was signed on Friday, but it could have been drawn up weeks ago.

Now, that is for some posters who claim they do not speculate and try and pass it off as fact.

THIS is how you do it.

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Guide
1.1.13  Greg Jones  replied to  TᵢG @1.1.3    2 months ago

Knock if off Tig. I will not join in on your little game of subtle insults. I am not the topic here. 

It is clear from your posts that your mind is already made up as to Trump's guilt.

You know that this whole grand reveal is to "get Trump"...there is no other explanation for the timing of it.

I offer my opinions on what I read and see. You are free to disagree or debunk what I say.

But the snarky insults and you incorrect interpretations as to my state of mind have to stop. OK?

Once again....the DOJ needs to wrap this up soon or lose what credibility it has left.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.1.14  TᵢG  replied to  Greg Jones @1.1.13    2 months ago
It is clear from your posts that your mind is already made up as to Trump's guilt.

Show me where.   I have stated that we do not yet know the facts.    

My position is that it is more likely that Trump has done something wrong than it is that the DoJ/FBI made one of the biggest political faux pas of history.

That is not the same as:  'Trump is guilty'.    I have repeatedly stated that facts remain to be established before we can draw conclusions on this event.

If you do not want people to call out confirmation bias then pay attention to what you write:

Greg @1.1.1Every day that goes by without further details will show the real intent of this raid....which is blatantly obvious anyway.

You deem the intent of this raid to be blatantly obvious.   Yet none of us have the facts that can support such a conclusion.   And you admit that the mere passage of time with no new information just confirms what is blatantly obvious.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
1.1.15  Ender  replied to  TᵢG @1.1.14    2 months ago

Funny that people get accused of claiming he is guilty when they are doing the same, just the opposite. Claiming he is an innocent victim.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.1.16  TᵢG  replied to  Ender @1.1.15    2 months ago

Nothing new there.   Many seem to be oblivious to what they write while engaging in often illogical presumption to put words in other's mouths.

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
1.1.17  bugsy  replied to  Ender @1.1.15    2 months ago

Please show us a post where someone declared Trump an innocent victim.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
1.1.18  Ender  replied to  bugsy @1.1.17    2 months ago

Then what the hell is all the outrage about? You can all say it is about the FBI when we know that is bull.

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
1.1.19  bugsy  replied to  Ender @1.1.18    2 months ago
You can all say it is about the FBI when we know that is bull.

The FBI has not been trusted by sane Americans when it comes to Trump for several years now. Their higher echelon has proven bias against Trump This is no different scenario.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
1.1.20  Ender  replied to  bugsy @1.1.19    2 months ago

Again, it is only complaining about bias with donald. Odd to me that some people never stop to think, that with everything that has happened or is happening, there is a common denominator, donald himself.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.1.21  TᵢG  replied to  bugsy @1.1.17    2 months ago
Please show us a post where someone declared Trump an innocent victim.

Trump is either a victim of an unjustified search & seizure or he received a justified search & seizure.

This all depends on the justification.   

IF he was holding classified documents, especially those at the SCI level, THEN those documents being held at his home compromised national security (and is against the law).   Trump would be in deep shit.

IF all those documents were declassified (and there would be an official record of the declassification) THEN this was an unjustified search & seizure and there will be hell to pay for the DoJ/FBI and the D party in general.

When people state that this was an unjustified act they are ipso facto stating that Trump has not done anything to warrant this act.   One cannot deem the DoJ/FBI to be wrong without deeming Trump as the victim.   The two are inextricably linked.

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
1.1.22  bugsy  replied to  Ender @1.1.20    2 months ago
Again, it is only complaining about bias with donald.

Maybe because it has been proven over and over? Maybe?

"there is a common denominator, donald himself."

Sure is, but bad news for the left whose only goal in life is to take him down.

There has been nothing.

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
1.1.23  bugsy  replied to  TᵢG @1.1.21    2 months ago
When people state that this was an unjustified act they are ipso facto stating that Trump has not done anything to warrant this act.

Not true. The belief for some is it could have been two dudes in sunglasses and badges that went to get documents and would have probably gotten them with no problems. The problem is they went in with lights flashing and several dozen agents, then claimed they would have liked to have made it ore discrete.

THAT is bs.

Did he deserve the FBI going into his house? Don't know, but I don't speculate and try and pass that speculation off as facts.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
1.1.24  Ender  replied to  TᵢG @1.1.21    2 months ago

I kinda have to agree with you. If they find nothing and end up with egg on their faces, then complain.

Of course then I can hear all the Dem conspiracies of he destroyed any documents ahead of time.

Yet people knowing donald's track record, also something they admire, of him not following the rules, I wonder why people are surprised at all with any of this.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
1.1.25  Ender  replied to  bugsy @1.1.22    2 months ago

There were people that had a goal in life to take Obama down and make sure he couldn't get anything done.

donald is hardly alone in that respect.

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
1.1.26  bugsy  replied to  Ender @1.1.25    2 months ago
There were people that had a goal in life to take Obama down and make sure he couldn't get anything done.

Those people were politicians. That's what politicians do. Politicians have done the exact same thing to all 44 presidents before Trump.

The FBI is supposed to be an unbiased law enforcement agency.

They have failed in that aspect.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
1.1.27  Ender  replied to  bugsy @1.1.23    2 months ago

Two boy scouts could have carried out some boxes. Sorry but I hardly think they would send one or two people to any search they did. They have protocols I would think.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
1.1.28  Ender  replied to  bugsy @1.1.26    2 months ago

People have said the exact same thing since Hoover was sitting behind his desk in a dress.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.1.29  TᵢG  replied to  bugsy @1.1.23    2 months ago
Not true [when people state that this was an unjustified act they are ipso facto stating that Trump has not done anything to warrant this act]

There is no escaping the logic.   If you claim this was unjustified then you are stating that Trump has not done anything to warrant this act.   That is what 'unjustified' means.   

Did he deserve the FBI going into his house? Don't know, ...

Well if you do not know then you cannot possibly conclude that this act was unjustified.

Don't know, but I don't speculate and try and pass that speculation off as facts.

Are you yet again insinuate that I pass off speculation as fact.   Prove it.  Show me where I have offered speculation as fact.

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
1.1.30  bugsy  replied to  Ender @1.1.27    2 months ago
Sorry but I hardly think they would send one or two people to any search they did

OK then 5 agents. Argument is they did not have to go in with lights flashing and sirens wailing. That was for the cameras and the news. For Gardner to later say thy wish they could have done it more discreet is straight bullshit.

They wanted this on the news, lead story for days and front page.

They got what they wanted.

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
1.1.31  bugsy  replied to  Ender @1.1.28    2 months ago
People have said the exact same thing since Hoover was sitting behind his desk in a dress.

Don't know. Before my time. I am arguing the recent times.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Principal
1.1.32  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  bugsy @1.1.26    2 months ago
They have failed in that aspect

Do you think they lied to Judge Reinhart to get the search warrant?

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
1.1.33  bugsy  replied to  TᵢG @1.1.29    2 months ago

Read my response to Ender above. I never said going in was unjustified. I said they could have done it with far fewer agents and no fanfare and gotten the exact same results

MY OPINION, Gardner, and by defacto, Biden, made the big raid for the cameras and for the news to appease their rabid base because they have not gone after Trump like that before and they are deathly afraid he will run....and win....a second term. .

BTW....I never mentioned YOU in my response. Don't take everything so personally.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
1.1.34  Ender  replied to  bugsy @1.1.30    2 months ago

There is no way it would not have been news. And sorry but I don't watch the WH press releases any more. Starting during Obama's term I would say, they have become more of just WH talking points.

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
1.1.35  bugsy  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @1.1.32    2 months ago
Do you think they lied to Judge Reinhart to get the search warrant?

Not sure about lying, but over blowing the means of which they went in could have been handled quietly and without the news cameras.

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
1.1.36  bugsy  replied to  Ender @1.1.34    2 months ago
There is no way it would not have been news

Sure it could have. Five dudes walk to the front gate, let the secret service know they are there, go in, collect what was warranted, and go out. It would have made the news, but not in real time.

I agree with the other point. The current PS proves that by reading from the binder word for word and no voice inflection.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.1.37  TᵢG  replied to  bugsy @1.1.33    2 months ago

No, you replied to my comment where I laid out justified vs. unjustified and you replied ‘not true’.

Your insinuation was obvious, stand tall and defend your words rather than try to slither away.

MY OPINION, Gardner, and by defacto, Biden, made the big raid for the cameras and for the news to appease their rabid base because they have not gone after Trump like that before and they are deathly afraid he will run....and win....a second term. 

You actually believe that the DoJ/FBI would engage in an unjustified raid because they thought this would be politically beneficial to them??

If you were calling the shots at the DoJ, would you have authorized an unjustified raid on Trump?    No?   So why do you presume that the DoJ/FBI are less aware of politics and the law than you?

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Principal
1.1.38  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  bugsy @1.1.35    2 months ago
could have been handled quietly and without the news cameras.

News cameras?  I haven't seen any footage.  The agents wear polo shirts and khakis, no FBI jackets.  They arrived at 10:00 not dawn.  The first report of this was from the Donald.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
1.1.39  Ender  replied to  bugsy @1.1.35    2 months ago

I understand your point. Though I am slow I guess. I heard about it after the fact. And to be honest, I have never watched video of it. Just have seen a couple of pics.

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
1.1.40  bugsy  replied to  TᵢG @1.1.37    2 months ago
No, you replied to my comment where I laid out justified vs. unjustified and you replied ‘not true’.

I'm not going down that hole with you.

"You actually believe that the DoJ/FBI would engage in an unjustified raid because they thought this would be politically beneficial to them??"

Clarification. I believe that Biden, or one of his lackeys acting as his mouthpiece, gave the OK to go in the way they did. This was to take the heat off a failed presidency and keep the story in the news, lead story and frony page, for a very long time, especially if there are no real facts released in the near future, citing "national security".

"You actually believe that the DoJ/FBI would engage in an unjustified raid because they thought this would be politically beneficial to them??"

If there was truly justification, then I would have done it as discreetly as possible. No nned for lights, sirens and cameras.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
1.1.41  JBB  replied to  Ender @1.1.39    2 months ago

He doesn't have a point because it didn't happen how he said!

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
1.1.42  Ender  replied to  JBB @1.1.41    2 months ago

Honestly I can't say really. Like I said, I have only seen like two pics.

What I was thinking is it is all behind a gate. So wouldn't any spectacle happen behind the gates...

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
1.1.43  bugsy  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @1.1.38    2 months ago
News cameras?  I haven't seen any footage. 

Trump was kind of an idiot for announcing the raid. If they had gone in discreetly, then he probably would not have made the announcement, just like they went there earlier this year collecting documents, and the news would not have been there. There is footage of police escorts in front of the property with lights on, probably no reason for that unless you are looking to attract attention.

. I never said anything about a time of arrival.

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
1.1.44  bugsy  replied to  JBB @1.1.41    2 months ago

So prove me wrong....and no memes

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Principal
1.1.45  MrFrost  replied to  bugsy @1.1.19    2 months ago
Their higher echelon has proven bias against Trump

Um, Chris Wray was appointed by Trump. 

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
1.1.46  bugsy  replied to  MrFrost @1.1.45    2 months ago

So?

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.1.47  Texan1211  replied to  bugsy @1.1.44    2 months ago
So prove me wrong....and no memes

No memes???

cricket-cricket-cricket-makeameme-org-cricket-cricket-cricket-make-a-meme-52901134.png

 
 
 
GregTx
Junior Participates
1.1.48  GregTx  replied to  bugsy @1.1.46    2 months ago

I find it funny that some here that will rant about the Republican party being corrupt to the core throw that out there like it means something. Telling...

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
1.1.49  bugsy  replied to  GregTx @1.1.48    2 months ago

What I have learned many years ago is that if a liberal accuses a republican of something illegal or nefarious, it will not be long before we find that is in fact, a democrat/liberal who is engaging in the illegal/nefarious act.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
1.1.50  Sparty On  replied to  TᵢG @1.1    2 months ago
Common sense suggests that the DoJ/FBI were quite aware of the significance of searching the residence of a former PotUS for the first time in US history.

The flaw in your logic here is you appear to assume the DOJ/FBI will use common sense and logical awareness in making their decisions and taking action.    Time and time again they prove just how flawed their actions can be.    And we don’t always need a camels nose under their tent to see it.

Look at how they messed up the Olympic Gymnast Doc investigation and that is just one instance.    Right in front of God and country.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.1.51  TᵢG  replied to  bugsy @1.1.40    2 months ago
If there was truly justification, then I would have done it as discreetly as possible. No nned for lights, sirens and cameras.

Then you actually believe that the DoJ/FBI stupidly conducted an historic search & seizure on a former PotUS' residence without knowing ahead of time that their action would be justified?   The DoJ/FBI just stupidly decided to commit political suicide and take down the D party with them?

Really?   This is the scenario you find to be most likely?   

I believe that Biden, or one of his lackeys acting as his mouthpiece, gave the OK to go in the way they did. This was to take the heat off a failed presidency and keep the story in the news, lead story and frony page, for a very long time, especially if there are no real facts released in the near future, citing "national security".

You think the Biden administration wants to make Trump a martyr and themselves look like partisan hacks on a fishing expedition with excessive use of government intrusion??

Again, this is what you consider the most likely scenario?

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.1.52  TᵢG  replied to  Sparty On @1.1.50    2 months ago
The flaw in your logic here is you appear to assume the DOJ/FBI will use common sense and logical awareness in making their decisions and taking action.

I assume the DoJ/FBI would not knowingly commit political suicide.   You apparently hold that they are so blinded by partisanship (albeit Wray is a Trump appointee) that they would conduct an historic search & seizure operation on a former PotUS' residence without a very high confidence that they would be able to justify same to the public.    That they would not know (or not care) that this would ruin their careers and legacies, would discredit the DoJ and the FBI and would end up giving a major win to the GoP by making Trump a martyr.

That would be a major league level of stupidity;  defining a new level of government stupidity.

If they cannot justify this operation then Garland and Wray both need to resign.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.1.53  TᵢG  replied to  bugsy @1.1.43    2 months ago
Trump was kind of an idiot for announcing the raid.

Well if the search & seizure was NOT justified then Trump was prescient to announce it.   

If it was justified then Trump was foolish to make this so public.

(IF ... THEN in operation.)

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
1.1.54  Sparty On  replied to  TᵢG @1.1.52    2 months ago

Well, all one has to do is pay attention.    The FBI hasn’t exactly been a paragon of accuracy and unbiased police work in recent history.    Falsified FISA warrants, proven internal bias against Trump at high levels,  mishandling of the Larry Nassar case, etc, etc.

People are getting away with murder over there with little or no consequence.    If Trump did something he shouldn’t have then by all means he should pay the any legal consequences required for same but so should bureaucrats in the DOJ/FBI if they screwed up.     I don’t care who appointed them. 

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
PhD Quiet
1.1.55  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Sparty On @1.1.54    2 months ago
 If Trump did something he shouldn’t have then by all means he should pay the any legal consequences required for same but so should bureaucrats in the DOJ/FBI if they screwed up.     I don’t care who appointed them

yea IF,  

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
1.1.56  Sparty On  replied to  igknorantzrulz @1.1.55    2 months ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.1.57  TᵢG  replied to  Sparty On @1.1.54    2 months ago
The FBI hasn’t exactly been a paragon of accuracy and unbiased police work in recent history.  

My point has nothing to do with bias;  I expect partisan bias throughout our government.   My point was about basic (and I mean literally basic) commonsense.  

If Trump did something he shouldn’t have then by all means he should pay the any legal consequences required for same but so should bureaucrats in the DOJ/FBI if they screwed up.   

Of course.   People who intentionally engage in wrong acts should be held accountable and suffer the consequences.   

We now need to wait for more information so that we can all get closer (hopefully) to the truth behind all of this.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
1.1.58  Sparty On  replied to  TᵢG @1.1.57    2 months ago

My point is not up for debate.  

The FBI hasn’t exactly been a paragon of accuracy and unbiased police work in recent history.    Falsified FISA warrants, proven internal bias against Trump at high levels,  mishandling of the Larry Nassar case, etc, etc.

It is proven fact.    Facts are not debatable.     They have no left or right bias.    They are ..... facts.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.1.59  TᵢG  replied to  Sparty On @1.1.58    2 months ago

You present this as if I was rebutting those words yet my post has nothing to do with defending the historical virtues of the FBI.

You ignored what I wrote and leaped to a strawman.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.1.60  Tessylo  replied to  TᵢG @1.1.59    2 months ago

That's all he's got and all he is capable of

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
1.1.61  Sparty On  replied to  TᵢG @1.1.59    2 months ago

Nope, I did no such thing.    

Once again I stated facts and only hard facts.     Your assumption was they wouldn’t commit political suicide.    I point out several factual examples where they very recently did just that.     That no one paid any serious consequences for it just makes it worse.

[deleted]

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
1.1.62  Sparty On  replied to  Tessylo @1.1.60    2 months ago

Getting positive feedback from you is always helpful.    

Thx Tess, you are the best!

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.1.63  TᵢG  replied to  Sparty On @1.1.61    2 months ago

My assumption is that entities do not knowingly commit political suicide.   They try to avoid that.   So, logically, a scenario wherein an entity takes brain-dead-stupid actions that will only bring them negative consequences is NOT what one should consider most likely.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
1.1.64  Sparty On  replied to  TᵢG @1.1.63    2 months ago
My assumption is that entities do not knowingly commit political suicide.

A poor assumption to make for entities that clearly thought they were going to get away with it.    Unfortunately for them someone unexpectedly pointed a light into their slime pit and caught them.

But in hindsight, since no one has paid any significant price for being so dishonest, I guess you may be correct to some degree.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.1.65  TᵢG  replied to  Sparty On @1.1.64    2 months ago
A poor assumption to make for entities that clearly thought they were going to get away with it.

It would be brain-dead-stupid to think that one can, for the first time in US history, conduct an UNJUSTIFIED (pending) search & seizure operation on a former PotUS and think they would 'get away with it'.    No way would a failure to come up with justified results NOT be broadcast worldwide and make Trump a martyr.    

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
1.1.66  Sparty On  replied to  TᵢG @1.1.65    one month ago
It would be brain-dead-stupid 

You said it but as already noted that is not the only excuse.    Thinking one will get away with it while hiding in the protective folds of bureaucracy is entirely reasonable and hardly unprecedented.

I could start ripping off the names of politicians and bureaucrats who got caught and went to jail over illegal actions similar to noted accusations but I’m sure it will be lost on the narrative you’re pushing.

God only knows how much shit was never discovered with biased, dishonest and out of control government officials .....

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.1.67  TᵢG  replied to  Sparty On @1.1.66    one month ago
 Thinking one will get away with it while hiding in the protective folds of bureaucracy is entirely reasonable and hardly unprecedented.

I think it is brain-dead-stupid to think one could get away with a search & seizure against a former PotUS if, in the end, the act was unjustified.   It is brain-dead-stupid to gratuitously and falsely try to bring political harm to a former PotUS via an act that would make him a martyr.

If the TS/SCI documents confiscated were not formally declassified (there would be a record of this) and Trump was not cooperating (by denying their existence or by stonewalling) in their return to a secure government facility designed to safeguard such information, then this search & seizure operation was justified.

If Trump was cooperating, then this operation is not justified.

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
PhD Quiet
1.1.68  igknorantzrulz  replied to  TᵢG @1.1.67    one month ago
If Trump was cooperating

Trump DOES NOT cooperate. End of story and discussion. He spits in the wind while downwind from the sewer he created when ignorant people bought into MASGA   Make America Sewer Grate Again and a Cult following his LIES is where part of America Dies, but the rest ewill overcome and survive this Come Stain Commander who is deserved of only slander, as they pander to a pussy grabbin salamander, slippin and sliding through the rabid foamin whole wheat chaffed field of extremes he wished and dreamed would become a reality for more, but there is only so many 'Johns'  willing to fck that two $ dollar whore

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
1.1.69  Sparty On  replied to  TᵢG @1.1.67    one month ago

Nah, it’s flat out ignorant to ignore what’s already right in front of your face simply because of an elevated TDS quotient

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.1.70  TᵢG  replied to  Sparty On @1.1.69    one month ago

What am I ignoring?   Vague claims are essentially bullshit.

... an elevated TDS quotient

And of course the predictable move to make things personal and based on a lie no less.

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Principal
1.1.71  MrFrost  replied to  bugsy @1.1.46    one month ago
So?

Bugsy is claiming bias and partisanship, I am just pointing out that Chris Wray is a trump supporter. 

As has been pointed out...

512  

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
1.1.72  Dulay  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.4    one month ago
No, TiG, the people involved in this have a history that cannot be ignored. Transparency is needed.

For transparencies sake, can you name these people and cite their history?

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.1.73  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Dulay @1.1.72    one month ago

James Comey leaked information (some real and some not) to the media:




Andrew McCabe leaked information to the media and repeatedly lied about it::




This is common knowledge at this point. Why am I going through the exercise of going back and providing endless links?????

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
1.1.74  Dulay  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.73    one month ago
This is common knowledge at this point.

What is common knowledge is that neither Comey nor McCabe were 'involved' with the Mar-a-lago search. 

Oh, and BTFW Vic, isn't accusing Comey and McCabe of unproven allegations 'persecution'?

Or is Trump the only one that you allow to make that claim? 

Why am I going through the exercise of going back and providing endless links????

As illustrated by the irrelevant links you posted, the exercise you go through is deflection. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.1.75  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Dulay @1.1.74    one month ago
What is common knowledge is that neither Comey nor McCabe were 'involved' with the Mar-a-lago search. 

Who said they were?


Oh, and BTFW Vic, isn't accusing Comey and McCabe of unproven allegations 'persecution'?

They lied and leaked. Those are FACTS!


As illustrated by the irrelevant links you posted, the exercise you go through is deflection. 

Deflection would be pretending that I liked Comey & McCabe to the Mar-a-Lago raid.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
1.1.76  Dulay  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.75    one month ago
Who said they were?

You did Vic. Anyone following this thread can see that for themselves. 

They lied and leaked. Those are FACTS!

No, those are your unproven allegations and based on your standards, persecution. 

Deflection would be pretending that I liked Comey & McCabe to the Mar-a-Lago raid.

I presume that you meant to type 'linked' and you did just that Vic.

Your 1.1.4 reply was about the Mar-a-Lago raid. Your last sentence was:

No, TiG, the people involved in this have a history that cannot be ignored. Transparency is needed.

When asked to name the people involved and cite their history, you named Comey and McCabe along with unproven allegations. 

You cited Comey and McCabe because it's the only thing you could think of to support your unproven claim. It's pure deflection. 

Fail. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.1.77  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Dulay @1.1.76    one month ago
Anyone following this thread can see that for themselves. 

Anyone following this thread is reading a two weeks old article. I'm on my review right now.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
1.1.78  Dulay  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.77    one month ago
Anyone following this thread is reading a two weeks old article. 

You are the one that asked a question about my week-old comment Vic. 

You got your answer then proceeded to make more unproven allegations. 

I'm on my review right now.

Oh goodie, another seed where you'll ignore questions and/or post more fabrications.  Can't wait. /s

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
1.2  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Vic Eldred @1    2 months ago

I thought the Republican Party was the "Law and Order" party.  I know it controls the SCOTUS, but doesn't it control the FBI, Homeland Security and the CIA as well?

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.2.1  Texan1211  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @1.2    2 months ago

Someone misinformed you. No party controls SCOTUS.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
1.2.2  Sean Treacy  replied to  Texan1211 @1.2.1    2 months ago

omeone misinformed you

That was the leftwing conspiracy de jour for a while during 2020, after the great Post Office conspiracy and before the armed gunmen at the ballot box. One of the left's fever dreams was a belief the Trump nominees were going to throw the election to him.  Years later, despite reality, it still persists in the fetid far left swamps.   

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
1.2.3  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Texan1211 @1.2.1    2 months ago

Well, if Bogart, in Casablanca, can be misinformed, so can I.

Captain Renault (Claude Rains):  What in heaven's name brought you to Casablanca?

Rick (Humphrey Bogart) : My health. I came to Casablanca for the waters.

Captain Renault : The waters? What waters? We're in the desert.

Rick : I was misinformed.
 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.2.4  Texan1211  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @1.2.3    2 months ago

Whole lot more sources to learn from today, so no real excuses for not being informed properly.

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
PhD Quiet
1.2.5  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Texan1211 @1.2.4    2 months ago

So what’s yours?

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
1.2.6  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Texan1211 @1.2.4    2 months ago

OIP-C.RdDCshWY4DhxZcPt28oV2wHaFi?pid=ImgDet&rs=1

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
1.2.7  Sparty On  replied to  Texan1211 @1.2.4    2 months ago

Not in China there isn’t.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.2.8  Texan1211  replied to  igknorantzrulz @1.2.5    one month ago
So what’s yours?

Fuck off.

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
PhD Quiet
1.2.9  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Texan1211 @1.2.8    one month ago
Fuck off.

learn a new phrase Tex ? if you wish to go down this road, you will be lost, cause at no cost to me, cause i'll set you free, makes not a difference to me, but very impressive vocabulary   words not always needed, more the surrounding words, will leave one defeated, and i'll feel deprived, and cheated, but whatever, F U Really Need IT, ILL concede it, cause don't wish to come off too, conceited, but like seed, and u wish to feed it, cause not a slip of the hand to leave you defeated, as you and yours need to face the fax machined and colntoured to your wanton needs, from a Cult liter too busy to court, any ones intelligent enuff to retort, for my tort has not limits, your roe boat wading in against my Nimitz, i N u clear

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.2.10  Texan1211  replied to  igknorantzrulz @1.2.9    one month ago
learn a new phrase Tex ?

No.

I just had dinner a little while ago, so not too interested in a tossed word salad.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
1.2.11  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Sparty On @1.2.7    one month ago
"Not in China there isn’t."

KInd of hard to figure out a double-negative comment, but how do you know?  Do you live in China?  Can you read Chinese?  Do you watch CGTN?  I just LOVE it when people post opinions about something they personally know absolutely nothing about, but merely rely on biased media - brings a little comedy into NT.  And every day I read the Microsoft BING  News, CTV News (Canada Television News - has foreign as well as Canadian news), USA Today, npr worid news, npr American news, all of which are not blocked and I don't use a VPR or any other way to overcome China's blocking.  I can read FOX news if I care to, but I do enjoy reading Crooks & Liars that shits all over the Republicans, LOL. 

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
1.2.12  Sparty On  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @1.2.11    one month ago

Still in denial I see but here, let me help you figure it out Buzz.

Unlike the USA, China’s media is heavily, heavily censored by the communist party.    I know it, they know it and the Chinese people should know it.

I guess you don’t, lol!

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
1.2.13  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Sparty On @1.2.12    one month ago

I know it's censored, and I know that news about China is published by foreign media that injects its own bias.  What can't be censored is what I have seen with my own eyes and from others that I trust, what I have learned over the past 16 years of being on the ground, so when I speak of what I know it's the actuality that cannot be twisted by the media both here and abroad.  As I said, there is no way that your commentary can speak the truth about China, but of course the contents of your commentary is the method to deflect from America's woes, isn't it.  

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
1.2.14  Sparty On  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @1.2.13    one month ago

One doesn’t need to live in China, to know how oppressive it is.

We are far from perfect but there is no comparison between the US and China in that regard.

None

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
1.2.15  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Sparty On @1.2.14    one month ago

LOL.  You don't live in China but you know how oppressive it is?  Perhaps these people who are out dancing should be told that they are oppressed:

800

Or these young people should learn that there is no reason for them to be smiling when they are government slaves.

800

And why aren't all these people out walking chained to their desks and machines?  Don't they realize how oppressed they are?

800

How can all these people go shopping in a beautiful modern department store / mall when they are so oppressed?

800

Here's what the Chinese people think of those who without any personal knowledge have an opinion that they are so oppressed. :

800

Perhaps the people here need to learn how much better life is where they need a gun to protect themself and their home, where about half a million people sleep under bridges, and neighbours despise their neighbours because they support a different political party and even families have to be careful about what they say during holiday get-togethers. 

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
1.2.16  Sparty On  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @1.2.15    one month ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
1.2.17  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Sparty On @1.2.16    one month ago

I admit denial - denial of your ignorant allegations.  I know America a hell of a lot better than you know China.  My disappointment with America is what's palpable - I used to love America, travelled through much of it, owned a condo in Florida, but I'm glad I've amused you.  

Turning off my computer for the night now, so if you intend to reply I'll take care of that in the (my) morning. 

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
1.2.18  Sparty On  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @1.2.17    one month ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
1.2.19  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @1.2.17    one month ago

Well, it appears I need not be concerned about a reply this morning.  

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
1.2.20  Sparty On  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @1.2.19    one month ago

[Deleted]

 
 
 
Thomas
Sophomore Guide
1.3  Thomas  replied to  Vic Eldred @1    one month ago
The burden is on them to prove otherwise.

Wait, Vic,  I thought the charging agency had to prove each specific case? That's how it works in the US, right?  But all of the sudden we are throwing all of that out because Yam colored ex pres is, yet again, in trouble with the law. 

How about choosing to be "law and order" or choosing to be autocratic (like DJT)? You cannot be both. It just doesn't work that way.  

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
1.4  Dulay  replied to  Vic Eldred @1    one month ago

I doubt that either gives a fuck how you feel about them. 

The DOJ has had Presidential documents in their possession for almost a week and the American public has yet to learn why those documents were taken in a brazen raid that defied all the norms of how a former President is treated.

That's only fitting since Trump has defied all the norms of former Presidents. 

We need to know exactly what documents were sought and why.

Actually, NO, no 'we' don't. There is a reason that many of those documents are classified. 

Any documents that were attorney/client privilege should not have been taken.

Any documents that were attorney/client privilege should not have been comingled with classified documents. 

Any documents related to the numerous investigations of President Trump should not have been taken.

Why not? 

Do you have evidence that those types of documents are exempt from the PRA? 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.4.1  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Dulay @1.4    one month ago
Why not? 

Because retrieving documents that are embarrassing to the FBI is unethical.


Do you have evidence that those types of documents are exempt from the PRA? 

I have as much knowledge of those documents as you do.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
1.4.2  Dulay  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.4.1    one month ago
Because retrieving documents that are embarrassing to the FBI is unethical.

You're being quite presumptive Vic. You have NO knowledge of the content of any of the documents seized. 

I have as much knowledge of those documents as you do.

Yet you unequivocally stated:

Any documents related to the numerous investigations of President Trump should not have been taken.

Per the search warrant, ALL documents that were intermingled with classified doc or Presidential records could be seized. 

I do have much more knowledge than you about the standards set by the PRA and Executive Order 13526. That is because I took the time to review [that means READ] BOTH. Either you haven't or you're gaslighting again. 

As I said before, Trump has had 18 months to properly categorize the files he removed from the WH. Trump has no one but himself to blame if extra-governmental documents were thrown in with government documents. 

Trump has claimed that he went through all of those documents and returned documents that were governed by the PRA and any classified documents that he held. Two tranches of documents were returned between Jan. 2021and June 2022. The NARA connected the dots and recognized that documents were STILL missing. Trump was issued a subpoena and as his MO, he blew it off.

As the inventory proves, there was a plethora of documents that were responsive to the DOJ subpoena. 

But ya, Trump is a victim. 

BTFW, Trump and his press secretaries claimed multiple times that there was a SCIF @ Mar-a-lago resort. Not surprisingly, there are specific standards for SCIFs [which I also reviewed] and let me assure you, there would be no need to put a padlock on the door of a SCIF. 

Why didn't Trump store his WH docs in this SCIF they claimed existed? Allegedly all of these documents were brought to Mar-a-lago while Trump was still in office.

Was the SCIF deactivated @ Mar-a-lago after Trump left office? If so, why? Or was the claim about the existence of the SCIF just another LIE told by the Trump regime?

If it was a lie, why wasn't there a SCIF at Mar-a-lago? Bolton had one in his own home but is unaware of one existing at Mar-a-lago. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.4.3  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Dulay @1.4.2    one month ago
Per the search warrant, ALL documents that were intermingled with classified doc or Presidential records could be seized. 

That warrant in effect says ALL documents. We shall see if that is legal under the 4th Amendment.

The left has come to power and broken so many laws!

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
1.4.4  Dulay  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.4.3    one month ago
That warrant in effect says ALL documents.

Only in your mind and in those who are willfully ignorant of the law. 

We shall see if that is legal under the 4th Amendment.

Yet I have little doubt that when it proves to be, you and yours will deflect to something else. 

The left has come to power and broken so many laws!

Projection. 

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
1.4.5  Dulay  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.4.3    one month ago

"Typically when a person avoids answering a question, that       question was posed by another person in a debate or discussion  . In such cases, the person is not only evincing flawed reasoning but also violating basic principles of discussion."

learnreligions  

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
1.5  Dulay  replied to  Vic Eldred @1    one month ago

"Typically when a person avoids answering a question, that       question was posed by another person in a debate or discussion  . In such cases, the person is not only evincing flawed reasoning but also violating basic principles of discussion."

learnreligions  

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.5.1  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Dulay @1.5    one month ago

Now I have a question for you:

If the DOJ wants to sit on the documents and is against releasing the affidavit, why are they leaking information?

(The latest leak suggests that the FBI acted on a subpoenaed security tape from outside the storage room at Mar-a-Lago.)

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
1.5.2  Dulay  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.5.1    one month ago
Now I have a question for you:

You haven't answered mine yet Vic. I'll wait.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Principal
2  Nerm_L    2 months ago

The story is that Trump is a victim of law enforcement.  As we have seen, it didn't matter what George Floyd did or didn't do.  The story was about Derek Chauvin and law enforcement.  George Floyd was a victim of law enforcement.

The Mar-a-Lago raid is a story about law enforcement.  Merrick Garland has placed himself into the same role as Derek Chauvin.  Trump is a victim of law enforcement just as was George Floyd.  Trump's guilt or innocence are actually irrelevant.  Using Trump's crimes as an excuse won't justify how law enforcement conducted itself.  Pointing accusing fingers at Floyd did not exonerate Chauvin.  And pointing accusing fingers at Trump won't exonerate Garland because this story isn't about Trump, it's about law enforcement.

The story about the Mar-a-Lago raid is following the same pattern as BLM protests.  What goes around, comes around.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
2.1  JBB  replied to  Nerm_L @2    2 months ago

These stories you tell yourself are certainly imaginative...

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Principal
2.1.1  Nerm_L  replied to  JBB @2.1    2 months ago
These stories you tell yourself are certainly imaginative...

Yeah, we know, Orange Man Bad.  So, illiberal liberals were against the police before they were for the police?  Trying to turn this story into a black and white contrast of victimhood won't make the last few years of peaceful protest disappear.

The story of the Mar-a-Lago raid really is following the same pattern as BLM protests.  But this time the BLM side is defending the police.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
2.1.2  JBB  replied to  Nerm_L @2.1.1    2 months ago

The only illegal paper George Floyd had was a bad $20 billl...

The cop kneeled on Floyd's neck until he died, just like Trump!

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Principal
2.1.3  Nerm_L  replied to  JBB @2.1.2    2 months ago
The only illegal paper George Floyd had was a bad $20 billl... The cop kneeled on Floyd's neck until he died, just like Trump!

So, Floyd was a bigger victim?  That black and white contrast of victimhood is supposed to exonerate law enforcement?

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
2.1.4  JBB  replied to  Nerm_L @2.1.3    2 months ago

I do not understand your thinking on this, at all. None of it...

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Principal
2.1.5  Nerm_L  replied to  JBB @2.1.4    2 months ago
I do not understand your thinking on this, at all. None of it...

512

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
2.1.6  JBB  replied to  Nerm_L @2.1.5    2 months ago

You are arguing both sides of your own bizarro argument.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Principal
2.1.7  Nerm_L  replied to  JBB @2.1.6    2 months ago
You are arguing both sides of your own bizarro argument.

No.  I'm saying the story is about law enforcement.  The story is not about what Trump did or didn't do.  In this story, Trump is the victim of out-of-control law enforcement.

Claiming that Trump is a 'thug' ain't any different than pointing out that George Floyd was a 'thug'.  That argument only tries to exonerate out-of-control law enforcement.    

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
2.1.8  JBB  replied to  Nerm_L @2.1.7    2 months ago

No, the story is about Trump illegally possessing top secret classified documents in violation of several federal laws...

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
2.1.9  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Nerm_L @2.1.7    one month ago
"In this story, Trump is the victim of out-of-control law enforcement."

Will you say the same if he is convicted of an offence?

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.1.10  TᵢG  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @2.1.9    one month ago

I would expect the party line will be 'travesty of justice'.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Principal
2.1.11  Nerm_L  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @2.1.9    one month ago
Will you say the same if he is convicted of an offence?

That question implies there is an option.  There isn't a choice any longer.  Trump must be prosecuted and imprisoned for crimes against the state.  if that does not happen then Biden becomes a door mat on the international stage.  And Democrats, in general, will take a big hit in public confidence.  The stakes are much, much higher now.

The FBI raid is already problematic because of the perception that Biden isn't in control of his own government.  As it is, the NATO alliance may well begin to waver following the mid-term elections in the US.  Europe is going to want Russian gas for winter heating.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
2.1.12  JBB  replied to  Nerm_L @2.1.11    one month ago

Nope, whatever does or does not happen to Trump is about as consequential to world affairs as a flea on a camel's ass...

Only in yours and his imaginations do world leaders care if he is or is not held accountable for this or his numerous crimes.

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
PhD Quiet
2.1.13  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Nerm_L @2.1.11    one month ago
The FBI raid is already problematic because of the perception that Biden isn't in control of his own government.

You are just like Trump here. The President DOES NOT control the Attorney General, irregardless of what Trump told everyone. And HE SHOULDN'T!  How do you not realize this. Biden is not involved in this shity show brought about by the GOP and their lax oversight of 45, who is now threatening those investigating him openly, and the Cult is listening

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.14  Texan1211  replied to  igknorantzrulz @2.1.13    one month ago

On one hand, we have Democrats who insist that the ONLY reason Trump hasn't been indicted is because he was President and it would go against 'tradition' to indict him. 

Then we have the FBI conducting an unprecedented search and seizure at an ex-President's home, and yet you want people to believe Biden was blissfully unaware.

BULLSHIT--PLAIN AND SIMPLE.

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
PhD Quiet
2.1.15  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.14    one month ago
Then we have the FBI conducting an unprecedented search and seizure at an ex-President's home, and yet you want people to believe Biden was blissfully unaware. BULLSHIT--PLAIN AND SIMPLE.

What is exactly precedent with how Trump has behaved the last 7 years exactly ? Do you claim he has not pushed more boundaries than ANY potUS in your lifetime ? Cause U know he HAS, and your endless defense, has become basically defenseless at this point. Trump brought this upon himself, and You Know it. He decided these Top Secret Documents were HIS,not  OURS. And you know he would SELL ANYTHING for a buck, as he has NO LOYALTY TO US. Only his bank account and self matter to Trump, a pathetic little peon of a parasitic undergrowth from that which SCUM is envious, cause he is an extreme our Country NEVER NEEDED, and the GOP Allowed his growth, and are SO WRONG, for placing their pathetic party ABOVE our COUNTRY>. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.1.16  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  igknorantzrulz @2.1.15    one month ago

Why hasn't Merrick Garland taken even the most minor measures to assure the public that what he is doing is not politically motivated?

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
PhD Quiet
2.1.17  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.1.16    one month ago

Vic, Merrick Garland has tiptoed around SO MUCH, Trying to NOT cause any MORE DIVISION than has ALREADYBEEN CAUSED BY THE MOST DIVISIVE PSCYCHO to ever hold the office of potUS. He was TOO cautious for Many, and all the 'right' would say is, well charge him then, and i'd have to expect that will be coming, because i really don't believe Garland would not have a case and or reason, to raid Mar Lar Go. And he, if what we've been fed so far winds up being accurate, and i believe it will, HE DID.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Principal
2.1.18  Nerm_L  replied to  JBB @2.1.12    one month ago
Nope, whatever does or does not happen to Trump is about as consequential to world affairs as a flea on a camel's ass... Only in yours and his imaginations do world leaders care if he is or is not held accountable for this or his numerous crimes.

Some have been making the same claim about the events of Jan. 6th and the subsequent House investigation.  

And we're supposed to believe the world doesn't watch the leader of the free world?  We've seen all sorts of analysis of the goings on in Putin's circle.  But no one pays the slightest attention to what happens in the United States.  

You actually think China is participating in Russian military exercises on a whim?  Really?

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Principal
2.1.19  Nerm_L  replied to  igknorantzrulz @2.1.13    one month ago
You are just like Trump here. The President DOES NOT control the Attorney General, irregardless of what Trump told everyone. And HE SHOULDN'T!  How do you not realize this. Biden is not involved in this shity show brought about by the GOP and their lax oversight of 45, who is now threatening those investigating him openly, and the Cult is listening

Trump did not order the FBI raid at Mar-a-Lago.  Someone in the Biden administration made that call.  So, who is in charge?  Who is running the government?

If the Attorney General is that independent then the FBI raid confirms the existence of a deep state.  The President does not have control over one of the most autocratic and intrusive functions of government.  If the DOJ acts as a fourth branch of government with authority over the other three branches then who is in charge of government?

Biden can't avoid becoming involved in this mess.  Biden is either President and leader of the free world - or - Biden is a figurehead functionary manipulated and controlled by a deep state that is unaccountable to anyone in government.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.1.20  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  igknorantzrulz @2.1.17    one month ago

Ig, We've had a solid 5 years of misconduct by DOJ and FBI.

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
PhD Quiet
2.1.21  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.1.20    one month ago

Yea, with Sessions, who actually did the right thing, lower the Barr was a complete embarrassment, and Garland has been dogged by Dems and Repubs alike, for not acting quick enough. Trump attempting to get the DOJ to do his bidding, was WRONG. Comey WAS WRONG interjecting within a few weeks of an election was WRONG. Hillary's reopened investigation and NO MENTION of Trumps being investigated was WRONG! But it's done, and it does NOT change what Trump has done, attempted to do, and continues to do. Spread divisive rhetoric like a damme heretic'd off ten. All Trump needed to do, was return what was not his. He chose Not. He has ALWAYS been his WORST ENEMY

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.22  Texan1211  replied to  igknorantzrulz @2.1.15    one month ago

Perhaps I could interest you in replying to what I actually wrote?

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
2.1.23  Dulay  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.1.16    one month ago

I think it's more like you aren't listening, Vic. 

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Principal
3  Drinker of the Wry    2 months ago

Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene tweeted “DEFUND THE FBI!” and is now selling shirts bearing the same slogan. 

Apparently, she is to stupid to see the irony and hypocrisy.  

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
3.1  Sparty On  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @3    2 months ago

She is pretty stupid.    Her and AOC are two dim peas in a pod and should start a t-shirt business together.    They could sell to both sides and make a mint.    

They sure aren’t tearing it up in Congress.

 
 
 
Gazoo
Sophomore Silent
4  Gazoo    2 months ago

Russian collusion, steele dossier, fisa warrants, whitmer assassination attempt, hag clinton email server, huntercrackcocainebiden laptop, spying on trump’s campaign and presidency, strzok/paige emails. Also, obammy’s irs going after conservative groups and swalwell and fienstein and their chinese spies. That’s just off the top of my head, i’m sure there is more. 

and we’re supposed to believe the alphabet agencies are non partisan? I don’t think so.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
4.1  JBB  replied to  Gazoo @4    2 months ago

Yet, all the recent leadership of the FBI and Justice Department have been rock solid lifelong Republicans. Robert Mueller, James Comey, Andrew McCabe, Rod Rosenstein, Bill Barr, Merrick Garland, every one of them have been by the book law and order mainline Republicans.

 
 
 
Gazoo
Sophomore Silent
4.1.1  Gazoo  replied to  JBB @4.1    2 months ago

You left out one important piece of info, they are all establishment republicans.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
4.1.2  JBB  replied to  Gazoo @4.1.1    2 months ago

They damn sure are not the partisan Democrats you implied.

 
 
 
Gazoo
Sophomore Silent
4.1.3  Gazoo  replied to  JBB @4.1.2    2 months ago

There is very little difference between establishment dems and establishment repubs. They both wish to keep their swampy little world as swampy as possible. Outsiders like trump are not welcome. Not surprised you’re blind to that.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
4.1.4  JBB  replied to  Gazoo @4.1.3    2 months ago

The leadership of the FBI, CIA and Justice Department tend to be conservative Republicans, and not liberal Democrats. Would you rather wild eyed radicals head up our law enforcement?

 
 
 
Gazoo
Sophomore Silent
4.1.5  Gazoo  replied to  JBB @4.1.4    2 months ago

You don’t get it. 

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
4.1.6  bugsy  replied to  JBB @4.1.4    2 months ago
The leadership of the FBI, CIA and Justice Department tend to be conservative Republicans, and not liberal Democrats.

Who cares what they claim to be.

Cheney claims to be a conservative Republican and is hell bent on making sure Trump never again can run for office, the real reason for the J6 commission.

Wild eyed radicals do, or did, head up the FBI. Did you pay attention to page/ stroke texts during the Russian hoax investigation?

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
4.1.7  Sparty On  replied to  JBB @4.1    2 months ago

Our definitions of “rock solid” are much, much different.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4.1.8  TᵢG  replied to  bugsy @4.1.6    2 months ago
Cheney claims to be a conservative Republican and is hell bent on making sure Trump never again can run for office, the real reason for the J6 commission.

Yes, Cheney is indeed hell bent on making sure Trump never can hold a position of authority.   For very good reasons too.   Do you want Trump to regain the powers of the presidency given what he did in his Big Lie campaign (e.g. trying to suborn his own V.P. to commit an unconstitutional act)?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
4.1.9  JohnRussell  replied to  bugsy @4.1.6    2 months ago
Cheney claims to be a conservative Republican and is hell bent on making sure Trump never again can run for office

You say that as if that were a bad thing, lol. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
4.2  JohnRussell  replied to  Gazoo @4    2 months ago

You are a geyser of misinformation. Must be an Alex Jones fan. 

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
4.2.1  bugsy  replied to  JohnRussell @4.2    2 months ago
You are a geyser of misinformation.

Says the guy that posted hundreds of allegation seeds against Trump over the years, zero of which were even proven true.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
4.2.2  Texan1211  replied to  bugsy @4.2.1    2 months ago
Says the guy that posted hundreds of allegation seeds against Trump over the years,

LOL!

Just hundreds? I figured it had to be at least a thousand or so by now.

 
 
 
Gazoo
Sophomore Silent
4.2.3  Gazoo  replied to  JohnRussell @4.2    2 months ago

Well what’s untrue? Come on john, inform us all with your great knowledge and self-righteous track record, lol.

as far as alex jones, i’ve never been a fan. Ooops, your track record just took another hit.

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
4.2.4  bugsy  replied to  Texan1211 @4.2.2    2 months ago

Well, I was just being nice.

[Deleted]

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
4.2.5  Texan1211  replied to  bugsy @4.2.4    2 months ago
Well, I was just being nice.

LOL!

Too nice.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
4.2.6  JohnRussell  replied to  bugsy @4.2.1    2 months ago

Bugsy I have proven you wrong about this so many times it is no longer worthwhile to bother anymore. Carry on with your endless nonsense. 

 
 
 
Gazoo
Sophomore Silent
4.2.7  Gazoo  replied to  JohnRussell @4.2.6    2 months ago

Did you enjoy the latest alex jones episode?

 
 
 
Revillug
Freshman Guide
5  Revillug    one month ago

Russian media is also very concerned about Trump's fate.

“I’m very worried for our agent Trump. They found everything at Mar-a-Lago, they got packages of documents. In all seriousness, they say he should be executed as a person that was ready to hand off nuclear secrets to Russia.”

Putin World Declares ‘Our Agent Trump’ Is Irreversibly Screwed

 
 

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