Is the border crisis an 'invasion'?

  

Category:  Op/Ed

Via:  gregtx  •  one month ago  •  122 comments

By:   Nolan Rappaport

Is the border crisis an 'invasion'?
Total illegal migrants released into the U.S. under Biden is larger than the population of the president's home state of Delaware.

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T



Texas Gov. Greg Abbott claims that President Biden's failure to faithfully execute the immigration laws enacted by Congress has violated Article IV, § 4 of the U.S. Constitution, which provides that "[t]he United States . . . shall protect each [State in this Union] against Invasion."

The border crisis hit a new record in May 2022, which saw the largest number of illegal border crossers along our southern border since CBP began keeping track in 2000, and these unprecedented numbers are overwhelming local communities across Texas.

Abbott has decided to attempt to exercise his state's authority under Article I, § 10 of the U.S. Constitution to protect itself against an "invasion" of undocumented migrants at the Southwest border.

Clause 3 of Article 1 § 10 states:

"No State shall, without the Consent of Congress, lay any Duty of Tonnage, keep Troops, or Ships of War in time of Peace, enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State, or with a foreign Power, or engage in War, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent Danger as will not admit of delay." (Emphasis added)

The Supreme Court has held — in the mid-1800s — that the phrases "unless actually invaded" and "in such imminent danger" refer to an invasion or the threat of an invasion by a foreign enemy, "indians," or pirates.

It would be quite a stretch to apply that interpretation to this situation.

But the courts may do it anyway.

It's reasonable to expect states to be able to protect themselves when a president releases more than a million migrants — about whom little if anything is known — into the country.

Gov. Abbott isn't the only one who is concerned. Ipsos recently announced poll results which indicate that more than half (54 percent) of American adults believe it is at least somewhat true that we're experiencing an invasion at the southern border (40 percent of the Democrats, 76 percent of the Republicans, and 46 percent of the independents).

And 42 percent of American adults believe that it is at least somewhat true that the Biden administration is implementing an open border policy at the southern border (29 precent of the Democrats, 63 percent of the Republicans, and 37 percent of the independents).

Record-breaking numbers


The border patrol has encountered more than 1.8 million illegal crossers at land borders in fiscal 2022, and there are still two months left to go in the fiscal year. That number is higher than the entirety of illegal crossers in fiscal 2021, when the border patrol encountered nearly 1.7 million illegal crossers. The highest number of encounters in the four previous fiscal years was 859,501 in 2019.

Catch and release


In May, U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CPB) released 95,318 migrants into the United States that it had encountered at the Southwest border, bringing the total of illegal migrant releases under the Biden administration to 1,049,532 — which is a population larger than the number of residents in the president's home state of Delaware.

Andrew R. Arthur has observed that, "There were 496 days between Jan. 21, 2021 (the day after the inauguration) and May 31, 2022… DHS released — on average — 2,115 illegal migrants per day throughout that period."

But is it an invasion?


Philip Bump, a national correspondent for the Washington Post, questions whether the border crossings can be considered an invasion. The migrants are stopped when they try to enter the United States, and the ones who are released are released on parole or alternatives to detention to wait for a hearing. Moreover, most of the migrants who are released show up for a hearing before an immigration judge.

He would have a good point if DHS maintained control over the released migrants, but that's not the case.

Even if Bump is right that most of them appear for their hearings, "most" is not good enough when more than a million are released into the country: At past rates, more than 400,000 of them won't appear at their hearings.

And what difference does it make that many of them appear at their hearings if some of the ones who receive a deportation order abscond after their hearings.

The end-to-end enforcement lifecycle approach that CBP used in its Fiscal Year 2020 Enforcement Lifecycle Report (report) provides a more realistic measure, and it indicates that catch and release border policies don't work.

The report describes the final or most current outcomes — as of March 31, 2020 — associated with the 3.5 million encounters with illegal border crossers and inadmissible migrants between 2014 and 2019. Overall, only 59 percent of their cases had been resolved through a final outcome of repatriation or relief from removal. Repatriations occurred in 1.8 million cases (51 percent) versus 1.7 million cases (49 percent) that had no confirmed departure, including the 284,000 cases in which the migrants were granted relief or other protection from removal (8.1 percent).

Detention matters


According to the report, 42 percent of the migrants remained in custody between their initial encounter and a final enforcement outcome. These migrants were repatriated 98 percent of the time, with only 0.5 percent receiving relief or other protection from removal and 1.5 percent remaining unresolved as of March 31, 2020.

In contrast, migrants who were not detained after their initial encounters were repatriated only 30 percent of the time, with 15 percent granted relief and 55 percent unresolved; 40 percent of the unresolved cases were still being processed, and 11 percent were subject to unexecuted removal orders.

That was then, and this is now


I think the results are likely to be worse now.

Many more undocumented migrants are being released, and the numbers are likely to double when the Title 42 order is terminated, which is inevitable. Approximately 1.7 million (53 percent) of the 3.2 million illegal crossers the Border Patrol has apprehended at the Southwest border during the Biden administration were expelled pursuant to that order.

Also, the wait for a hearing is much longer now. As of the end of July, the immigration court backlog was more than 1.8 million cases, and the average wait for a hearing was 818 days.

If you don't want to call this an invasion, what would you call it?

More to the point: If it's not an "invasion" under current interpretation of the law, what recourse should states have to limit the flood of undocumented migrants being released into their territories?


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GregTx
Junior Participates
1  seeder  GregTx    one month ago
Gov. Abbott isn't the only one who is concerned. Ipsos recently announced poll results which indicate that more than half (54 percent) of American adults believe it is at least somewhat true that we're experiencing an invasion at the southern border (40 percent of the Democrats, 76 percent of the Republicans, and 46 percent of the independents).

Damn right it's an invasion. And it's being facilitated by the defacto open border policies of the Biden administration.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Principal
2  Nerm_L    one month ago

States adopt fairly harsh measures to control plants, animals, and insects that are not native.  The invasive species compete with and displace the native inhabitants.  The situation is not too dissimilar with the problem of Burmese pythons invading the Florida everglades.  Or zebra muscles in the Great Lakes.  Or Asian carp in the Mississippi watershed. Or the potential problem of murder hornets.

The government has a responsibility to protect native populations of every plant, animal, and insect -- except human populations.  

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Senior Quiet
2.1  Jack_TX  replied to  Nerm_L @2    one month ago
States adopt fairly harsh measures to control plants, animals, and insects that are not native.

Please tell me you're not actually comparing human beings to insects and/or snakes.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Principal
2.1.1  Nerm_L  replied to  Jack_TX @2.1    one month ago
Please tell me you're not actually comparing human beings to insects and/or snakes.

You do realize that humans are an invasive species.  That's why the government is required to protect wilderness from human intrusion.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Senior Quiet
2.1.2  Jack_TX  replied to  Nerm_L @2.1.1    one month ago
You do realize that humans are an invasive species. 

You do realize they're different from snakes and insects, yes?

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
3  Sean Treacy    one month ago

Yes. 

 
 
 
magicschoolbusdropout
Freshman Principal
4  magicschoolbusdropout    one month ago

If 190,000 + or - People crossing Ukraine's Border is considered an "Invasion", I'd have to say that 3.5 mil. or so People crossing our borders should be concidered an "Invasion".

But, that would be just little Ol' me doing some thinking on my own !

hmmmmmmmmm.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
4.1  JohnRussell  replied to  magicschoolbusdropout @4    one month ago
But, that would be just little Ol' me doing some thinking on my own !

If you say so.

The Russian invaders of Ukraine were an army, with tanks, machine guns, bombs and generals.  The "invaders" on the US southern border have little more than the clothes on their back. 

 
 
 
magicschoolbusdropout
Freshman Principal
4.1.1  magicschoolbusdropout  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1    one month ago

The "Russians" are "People" too !

The "invaders" on the US southern border have little more than the clothes on their back. 

Costing the "People" of this country a fortune in costs !

"Money" is a "Weapon" too.....right ?

 
 
 
Jasper2529
Professor Participates
4.1.2  Jasper2529  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1    one month ago
The "invaders" on the US southern border have little more than the clothes on their back.

The cartels and taxpayer-funded NGOs make sure that those clothes and footwear are designer brands.

 
 
 
GregTx
Junior Participates
4.1.3  seeder  GregTx  replied to  Jasper2529 @4.1.2    one month ago

384

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
4.1.4  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  GregTx @4.1.3    one month ago

Let's be honest about that photo. Here is the story:

 
 
 
magicschoolbusdropout
Freshman Principal
4.1.5  magicschoolbusdropout  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @4.1.4    one month ago
Here is the story:

Still doesn't make the Photo dishonest, no matter how one uses it !

Apparently, The "Smugglers" know as much as those that are STILL Allowing the flow of "ILLEGALS" across our borders. They'll be "getting stuff" as soon as they cross.

 
 
 
GregTx
Junior Participates
4.1.6  seeder  GregTx  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @4.1.4    one month ago

Perhaps it was a scam then, sure doesn't seem to be now.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
4.1.7  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  GregTx @4.1.6    one month ago

How would one know, Greg?

 
 
 
GregTx
Junior Participates
4.1.8  seeder  GregTx  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @4.1.7    one month ago
The border patrol has encountered more than 1.8 million illegal crossers at land borders in fiscal 2022, and there are still two months left to go in the fiscal year. That number is higher than the entirety of illegal crossers in fiscal 2021, when the border patrol encountered nearly 1.7 million illegal crossers. The highest number of encounters in the four previous fiscal years was 859,501 in 2019.
 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Principal
4.1.9  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1    one month ago

True, yet the mayor of DC wants the National Guard activated and deployed in her city.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
4.1.10  Sparty On  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @4.1.9    one month ago

Very strange for a self proclaimed sanctuary city don’t you think?

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
4.1.11  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Sparty On @4.1.10    one month ago

They are being deployed because they need assistance with the influx. They do not have the facilities that NY has for the homeless, although ours is running out, too.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Principal
4.1.12  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @4.1.11    one month ago
They are being deployed because they need assistance with the influx

They haven't been deployed yet.  The Biden Administration has rejected both requests from Mayor Bowser.   

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
4.1.13  Sparty On  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @4.1.11    one month ago

That’s good, the NG can wipe the nose of an uncontrolled Biden border policy in DC.     Now affecting the entire country.    

Hopefully NG units in all states have a lot of Kleenex.

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Guide
4.1.14  Greg Jones  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1    one month ago
"The "invaders" on the US southern border have little more than the clothes on their back."

Quite often  they're carrying drugs and disease.

 
 
 
afrayedknot
Freshman Quiet
4.1.15  afrayedknot  replied to  Greg Jones @4.1.14    one month ago

“Quite often  they're carrying drugs and disease.”

More often, they are carrying frightened children. 

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
4.1.16  Ronin2  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @4.1.11    one month ago

Neither do the southern states; who are dealing with this on a scale much larger than a "few busloads" of illegals.

The Fed has told them all to go pound sand.

What is the plan here? What is the Biden administration thinking? What is the end game? Let so many illegals in that the entire US system collapses and we end up with riots between the poor on government subsidies that can no longer be filled; and illegals demanding what they were promised? We can't take care of the people in this country that are US citizens. But they are letting in millions more illegals every year? Biden still has two years left to serve- will he break the record each year for illegals entering?

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
4.1.17  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @4.1.12    one month ago
They haven't been deployed yet.  The Biden Administration has rejected both requests from Mayor Bowser. 

My bad. I knew the request was in.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
4.1.18  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Ronin2 @4.1.16    one month ago
What is the plan here? What is the Biden administration thinking? What is the end game?

I don't think there is a plan, which is the problem. They began coming the moment Trump was voted out. I don't think the Biden administration ever came up with a plan.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Principal
4.1.19  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @4.1.17    one month ago

The most recent rejection was this last Monday.

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
4.1.20  Ronin2  replied to  afrayedknot @4.1.15    one month ago

Who, the sex traffickers, coyotes, or cartels?

Hard to tell with all of the unaccompanied minors entering the country.

According to the government the amount of "accompanied minors" is so low they actually put the real number- instead of using a bar.

I am sure they aren't arriving at the border on their own. I am also sure they are disappearing in this country to who knows what type of care?

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
4.1.21  Dulay  replied to  Ronin2 @4.1.20    one month ago

The data at your link are the people apprehended and deported. None 'disappeared into this country'. 

 
 
 
magicschoolbusdropout
Freshman Principal
4.1.22  magicschoolbusdropout  replied to  afrayedknot @4.1.15    one month ago
More often, they are carrying frightened children.

16 Year Olds can get very scared at times !

The days of "Toddlers" are over !

 
 
 
afrayedknot
Freshman Quiet
4.1.23  afrayedknot  replied to  magicschoolbusdropout @4.1.22    one month ago

“The days of "Toddlers" are over !”

Not as long as you continue to post. 

 
 
 
magicschoolbusdropout
Freshman Principal
4.1.24  magicschoolbusdropout  replied to  afrayedknot @4.1.23    one month ago
Not as long as you continue to post. 

Were you hugging your mom as you posted that ?

 
 
 
afrayedknot
Freshman Quiet
4.1.25  afrayedknot  replied to  magicschoolbusdropout @4.1.24    one month ago

…thus proving the point. 

 
 
 
magicschoolbusdropout
Freshman Principal
4.1.26  magicschoolbusdropout  replied to  afrayedknot @4.1.25    one month ago
thus proving the point.

What point ?

You hug your mom really, really tight when you post ?

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
4.1.27  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Sparty On @4.1.13    one month ago

It sure has the earmarks of a invasion to those of us that live right on the Southern border that have to deal with it on a daily basis.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
4.1.28  Sparty On  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @4.1.27    one month ago

I can only imagine.    

Stay safe Doc!

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
4.1.29  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Sparty On @4.1.28    one month ago

You too.

 
 
 
arkpdx
Professor Participates
4.1.30  arkpdx  replied to  magicschoolbusdropout @4.1.1    one month ago
The "Russians" are "People" too !

That's questionable. 

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
4.1.31  Sparty On  replied to  arkpdx @4.1.30    one month ago

They likely are, just like us.

Most of the really crazy ones, are politicians.

Just like us ....

 
 
 
Jasper2529
Professor Participates
4.2  Jasper2529  replied to  magicschoolbusdropout @4    one month ago
I'd have to say that 3.5 mil. or so People crossing our borders should be concidered an "Invasion".

And, that's only since Jan.2021 (not counting "got-aways"). I recall that the illegal alien totals back in the Obama days was between 11-20+ million (not counting "got-aways").  

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Senior Quiet
5  Jack_TX    one month ago

I'm sorry guys, this whole idea is asinine.

Calling the immigrants at the border an "invasion" is like looking at a bunch of people floating in the ocean after their ship just sank and saying "prepare to be boarded".  

Do we have an immigration problem?  Hell yeah.  Largely of our own making because we're too fucking stupid to do any math.

Invasion?  Just stop.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
5.1  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Jack_TX @5    one month ago

Thank you for saying that. 

 
 
 
magicschoolbusdropout
Freshman Principal
5.2  magicschoolbusdropout  replied to  Jack_TX @5    one month ago
Invasion? 

Sure:

in·va·sion
[inˈvāZHən]
NOUN
- an incursion by a large number of people or things into a place or sphere of activity
- an unwelcome intrusion into another's domain
-  the incoming or spread of something usually hurtful
 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
5.2.1  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  magicschoolbusdropout @5.2    one month ago

invasion

  noun
in·​va·​sion   |   \   in-ˈvā-zhən     \

Definition of   invasion

1 :   an act of   invading especially   :   incursion of an army for conquest or plunder
2 :   the incoming or spread of something usually hurtful
 
 
 
magicschoolbusdropout
Freshman Principal
5.2.2  magicschoolbusdropout  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @5.2.1    one month ago

Short version ?

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
5.2.3  Sparty On  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @5.2.1    one month ago

#2 could easily be applied here.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
5.2.4  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  magicschoolbusdropout @5.2.2    one month ago
Short version ?

No, an official version by the most accepted dictionary.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
5.2.5  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Sparty On @5.2.3    one month ago
#2 could easily be applied here.

Define hurtful in this context. 

And let me be clear, I am NOT for illegal immigration and I do think that any country can support a limited number of immigrants. But hurtful is a very specific term, and I would like to understand what you think is hurtful.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
5.2.6  Sparty On  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @5.2.5    one month ago

Most taxpayers would agree that overloading things like schools, hospitals and social services, etc is hurtful to the communities they serve.    Communities that pay taxes for access to those overloaded services.

 
 
 
magicschoolbusdropout
Freshman Principal
5.2.7  magicschoolbusdropout  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @5.2.4    one month ago
in·va·sion
[inˈvāZHən]
NOUN
  1. an instance of invading a country or region with an armed force:
    "in 1546 England had to be defended from invasion" · 
    [more]
    synonyms:
    occupation · conquering · capture · seizure · annexation · annexing · takeover · appropriation · expropriation · arrogation · overrunning · overwhelming · storming · attack · incursion · offensive · assailing · assault · onslaught · foray · sortie · raid
 
 
 
Jasper2529
Professor Participates
5.3  Jasper2529  replied to  Jack_TX @5    one month ago
Do we have an immigration problem?  Hell yeah.

Hell, no. We have successful LEGAL immigration laws that tens of millions of immigrants have obeyed for over a century. My great-grandparents and grandparents were among them.

Those who ILLEGALLY enter the USA are breaking our immigration laws, and under the Biden presidency, they are rewarded with free healthcare, education, housing, and food during a RECESSION when US citizens and LEGAL immigrants suffer.

 
 
 
magicschoolbusdropout
Freshman Principal
5.3.1  magicschoolbusdropout  replied to  Jasper2529 @5.3    one month ago
We have LEGAL immigration laws

Seems a statement like that is ALWAYS "Ignored", when it's "Convenient" !

Which seems to "ALWAYS" be convenient come "Election" cycles Democrats need to win in !

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
5.3.2  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  magicschoolbusdropout @5.3.1    one month ago
Which seems to "ALWAYS" be convenient come "Election" cycles Democrats need to win in !

Riddle me this.

If Texas kept these people they would be grateful and would be republicans.

Instead, they are shipping them off to NY, where they will be grateful and become democrats. 

Who's fault is it if they vote for one party over the other (btw, they are not supposed to vote, so I am not sure about this whole argument anyway)

 
 
 
magicschoolbusdropout
Freshman Principal
5.3.3  magicschoolbusdropout  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @5.3.2    one month ago
If Texas kept these people they would be grateful and would be republicans.

Would they be ?

Instead, they are shipping them off to NY, where they will be grateful and become democrats. 

How long will it be for the "Illegals" to become "Legal" to vote in this country ?

btw, they are not supposed to vote, so I am not sure about this whole argument anyway

So why even note what you did ?

 
 
 
GregTx
Junior Participates
5.3.4  seeder  GregTx  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @5.3.2    one month ago

Well then, sounds like a boon for NY and Democrats as well, perhaps instead of busses Gov. Abbott should start sending trains.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
5.3.5  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  GregTx @5.3.4    one month ago

I know you think that your gov seems funny, but we don't here in NY. 

 
 
 
afrayedknot
Freshman Quiet
5.3.6  afrayedknot  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @5.3.2    one month ago

“Who's fault is it if they vote for one party over the other…”

Guessing risking life and limb escaping horrors we conveniently ignore, separating families in the hope of one day reuniting, and entering a hostile world where they have become a divisive symbol of something in which they have no voice ate more immediate issues than choosing with what party they may align.

Survival is their only thought. We, however, and in our largesse, make them but another pawn in our endless, privileged games we play.

Ungrateful we are, bordering on inhumane in forgetting all who came before us and all that we are supposed to be. 

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
5.3.7  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  magicschoolbusdropout @5.3.3    one month ago
Would they be ?

I'm only following your logic.

How long will it be for the "Illegals" to become "Legal" to vote in this country ?

Well if it is anything like my SIL about 5 years.

btw, they are not supposed to vote, so I am not sure about this whole argument anyway So why even note what you did ?

Because I was following your logic. It was you who said: 

Which seems to "ALWAYS" be convenient come "Election" cycles Democrats need to win in !
 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Principal
5.3.8  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @5.3.5    one month ago

Why doesn't NYC welcome the opportunity to provide sanctuary?  Do you really want them staying in Texas and Arizona?

 
 
 
GregTx
Junior Participates
5.3.9  seeder  GregTx  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @5.3.5    one month ago

Funny? No but as I've said before this is exactly what southern border states governors should have been doing all along. Those of you that live in states not really affected by the border crisis are starting to get a taste and y'all don't like it. So maybe if enough blue states and cities start hollering about it enough something will start getting done.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
5.3.10  Dulay  replied to  Jasper2529 @5.3    one month ago
Hell, no. We have successful LEGAL immigration laws that tens of millions of immigrants have obeyed for over a century. My great-grandparents and grandparents were among them.

There were little to NO immigration laws in the US for white people until 1952, so pretending that your great-grandparents and grandparents met a comparative standard to today is ridiculous. 

Those who ILLEGALLY enter the USA are breaking our immigration laws

Those who enter the USA LEGALLY seeking asylum are NOT breaking our immigration laws. 

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Principal
5.3.11  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Dulay @5.3.10    one month ago
There were little to NO immigration laws in the US for white people until 1952,

Not counting the National Origin Act of 1924?

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
5.3.12  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @5.3.8    one month ago
Why doesn't NYC welcome the opportunity to provide sanctuary?  Do you really want them staying in Texas and Arizona?

We have welcomed them since we recognize they are human beings. We do not have unlimited resources though. In NY, being a sanctuary was never intended for large amounts of people.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
5.3.13  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  GregTx @5.3.9    one month ago

First of all, as I have stated, I am not for what is going on, on your border. That being said, shipping people off like they are cattle, is kind of gross. This shouldn't be a red state/ blue state thing and even if you think that it is, where are all your red state friends? I don't hear anything from them either. Why are you OK with that? So in reality, this is just an act of spite. 

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
Professor Participates
5.3.14  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Jasper2529 @5.3    one month ago
We have successful LEGAL immigration laws

And we have LEGAL immigration asylum laws that allow immigrants to come to our borders seeking asylum.

they are rewarded with free healthcare, education, housing, and food

Really?

Undocumented immigrants are not eligible to enroll in Medicaid or CHIP or to purchase coverage through the ACA Marketplaces.

Health Coverage of Immigrants | KFF

Undocumented immigrants are not, and never have been, eligible for food stamps.

Facts About Immigrants & the Food Stamp Program - National Immigration Law Center (nilc.org)

Undocumented Immigrants are "typically ineligible for federal Department of Housing and Urban Development housing programs. To qualify for public housing or HUD-subsidized housing, a person "must be a U.S. citizen or a non-citizen with an eligible immigration status,"

Immigrants illegally in the country are not eligible for the federal SNAP benefits. There is another federal food assistance program for which states can set eligibility requirements , and immigrants illegally in the country could apply for that assistance. That program is the Special Supplemental Nutrition Program for Women, Infants and Children, commonly called WIC.

"A Facebook post claimed American taxpayer dollars provide "free housing, free medical, free state identification, free college, free daycare, free Social Security, free EBT cards, free month (sic) checks" to immigrants in the country illegally." "We rate this claim False."

PolitiFact | Fact-checking claim about immigrants, eligibility for assistance programs

But don't let facts and reality get in the way of your uninformed partisan narrative, few right wing conservatives ever do.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Principal
5.3.15  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @5.3.12    one month ago
We do not have unlimited resources though.

Apparently Texas and Arizona don't either.  The federal government does however, as they are about to forgive $300 billion or so in student debt.  They need to tap their vast resources and help these poor people.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
5.3.16  Sparty On  replied to  Dulay @5.3.10    one month ago

My grandparents entered the US legally as well, through Ellis Island.    Most people today jumping the fence or swimming the river are not.

One was legal, one is not.    The only standard that need be applied

 
 
 
GregTx
Junior Participates
5.3.17  seeder  GregTx  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @5.3.13    one month ago

I agree it shouldn't be a red state blue state thing it should be a U.S. thing, yet it hasn't really seemed to be has it? My red state friends? What does that mean? Spite? I don't know if Abbott has a personal motivation here but, again, it sure is getting some attention on a problem that wasn't getting any really except by those directly affected by it.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
5.3.18  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @5.3.15    one month ago
Apparently Texas and Arizona don't either.  The federal government does however, as they are about to forgive $300 billion or so in student debt.  They need to tap their vast resources and help these poor people.

Nice way of mixing two issues... but I am not for debt forgiveness either. You seem to have this independent mixed up as a liberal, not that I am dissing liberals or conservatives.... just one governor. 

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Principal
5.3.19  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @5.3.13    one month ago
That being said, shipping people off like they are cattle, is kind of gross.

Cattle don't travel in chartered busses.

This shouldn't be a red state/ blue state thing

No, it should be a federal thing but they seem to be missing in action.

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Guide
5.3.20  Greg Jones  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @5.3.12    one month ago
"We have welcomed them since we recognize they are human beings. We do not have unlimited resources though. In NY, being a sanctuary was never intended for large amounts of people."

Neither are the mostly small towns in the border states seeing the brunt of this ongoing influx

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Principal
5.3.21  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @5.3.18    one month ago
You seem to have this independent mixed up as a liberal,

Forgive me, my comments are directed at all of our readers, not just to you.

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Guide
5.3.22  Greg Jones  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @5.3.13    one month ago
"So in reality, this is just an act of spite"

No, it's an act of common sense necessity

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
5.3.23  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  GregTx @5.3.17    one month ago
I agree it shouldn't be a red state blue state thing it should be a U.S. thing, yet it hasn't really seemed to be has it?

I agree. 

My red state friends? What does that mean?

It was in regards to your comment: 

Those of you that live in states not really affected by the border crisis are starting to get a taste and y'all don't like it. So maybe if enough blue states and cities start hollering about it enough something will start getting done.... it sure is getting some attention on a problem that wasn't getting any really except by those directly affected by it.

I don't see other red states caring either. So why pick on NY and DC? 

 
 
 
magicschoolbusdropout
Freshman Principal
5.3.24  magicschoolbusdropout  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @5.3.7    one month ago
I'm only following your logic.

Not very well.

I didn't claim the "Illegals" would vote Democrat in any of my statements!

Because I was following your logic.

Again: Not Very Well, .I didn't claim the "Illegals" would vote Democrat !

I just noted that Democrats that are running for office, "Use" the "Illegals" as a vote getter !

Like "Democrats" are sooooo really "Humanitarian", so vote for them. hahahaha !

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
5.3.25  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Greg Jones @5.3.22    one month ago

I don't think so. Otherwise, he would be sending those bus loads across America. In case you haven't noticed, no state is beating the drum for Texas.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
5.3.26  Sparty On  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @5.3.19    one month ago
Cattle don't travel in chartered busses.

They don’t have backpacks, clean cloths, cell phones or good haircuts either.

 
 
 
magicschoolbusdropout
Freshman Principal
5.3.27  magicschoolbusdropout  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @5.3.19    one month ago
No, it should be a federal thing but they seem to be missing in action.

Feds have passed it off to the States.

The "Red States" that is.

At Least the "Red States" are sharing the wealth now, and passing through some to the "Blue States", no help from the Fed ! 

"Blue States" hate the intrusion of "Illegals" on their community !

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
5.3.28  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  magicschoolbusdropout @5.3.24    one month ago
Like "Democrats" are sooooo really "Humanitarian", so vote for them. hahahaha !

I think that Abbott is treating humans as cattle... but hey I'll let everyone come to their own conclusion.

In NY, we are treating them as people, but we have had more than our fill to treat them well.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
5.3.29  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Sparty On @5.3.26    one month ago
They don’t have backpacks, clean cloths, cell phones or good haircuts either.

And neither do these people, unless you call a garbage bag a backpack

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Guide
5.3.30  Greg Jones  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @5.3.14    one month ago
"But don't let facts and reality get in the way of your uninformed partisan narrative, few right wing conservatives ever do."

So how are they fed, housed, clothed, and receive healthcare?

And who pays for it?

 
 
 
magicschoolbusdropout
Freshman Principal
5.3.31  magicschoolbusdropout  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @5.3.28    one month ago
I think that Abbott is treating humans as cattle.

In Busses most of us in this country "Rent" to take us to parties ?

When you rent an air conditioned luxury bus, they don't even provide food like the "Illegals" are getting.

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Guide
5.3.32  Greg Jones  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @5.3.28    one month ago

"I think that Abbott is treating humans as cattle... but hey I'll let everyone come to their own conclusion."

Biden flies them in, Abbott buses them.

Have you flown lately?

 
 
 
magicschoolbusdropout
Freshman Principal
5.3.33  magicschoolbusdropout  replied to  Greg Jones @5.3.32    one month ago
Have you flown lately?

All you get is "Chips" and have to pay for anything other than "Soda" !

sheeeesh !

 
 
 
GregTx
Junior Participates
5.3.34  seeder  GregTx  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @5.3.23    one month ago
I don't see other red states caring either. So why pick on NY and DC? 

I agree, I think we should start offering a choice of any sanctuary city in the U.S. that they want to go to.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Senior Quiet
5.3.35  Jack_TX  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @5.3.28    one month ago
I think that Abbott is treating humans as cattle... but hey I'll let everyone come to their own conclusion. In NY, we are treating them as people, but we have had more than our fill to treat them well.

You have 5000.  

When you have 1.5 million, you can tell Texans about cattle.

 
 
 
GregTx
Junior Participates
5.3.36  seeder  GregTx  replied to  Greg Jones @5.3.30    one month ago

Apparently it's just supposed to be the residents of the southern border states.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Principal
5.3.37  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @5.3.23    one month ago
I don't see other red states caring either. So why pick on NY and DC? 

Probably the humorous irony of self-proclaimed sanctuary whining when ask to walk the walk. 

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
5.3.38  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Jack_TX @5.3.35    one month ago

Again Jack, they are being used as cattle. The fact that you have 1.5 million is a whole different issue. I get your pain, but the way your gov is handling this is just horrible. It is political theater otherwise, he would be bussing them out all over the US and that is not happening.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
5.3.39  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @5.3.37    one month ago
Probably the humorous irony of self-proclaimed sanctuary whining when ask to walk the walk. 

We are walking the walk. But thanks for joining in on the mockery. I think this is where I bow out. It is a waste of my time.

 
 
 
magicschoolbusdropout
Freshman Principal
5.3.40  magicschoolbusdropout  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @5.3.38    one month ago
but the way your gov is handling this is just horrible.

What is Gov. Abbott supposed to do ?

How about how the Feds are handling what they are actually "Responsible for" ?

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
Professor Participates
5.3.41  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Greg Jones @5.3.30    one month ago
So how are they fed, housed, clothed, and receive healthcare?

Most aren't receiving anything. There are some programs for women and children as well as asylum seekers, but the fact is there are millions of undocumented immigrants who work in the US under fake social security numbers so they end up paying taxes and into social security but never withdraw on the benefits.

" Illegal immigrants are estimated to pay in about $7 billion per year into Social Security . In addition, they spend billions of dollars per year, which supports the US economy and helps to create new jobs. The Texas State Comptroller reported in 2006 that the 1.4 million unauthorized immigrants in Texas added almost $18 billion to the gross state product, and contributed $1.58 billion in state revenue, while costing the state about $1.16 billion in services used. The Social Security and Medicare contributions of illegal immigrants directly support older Americans, as illegal immigrants are not eligible to receive these services"

Economic impact of illegal immigrants in the United States - Wikipedia

FACT: Immigrants in the United States have about a net zero effect on government budgets — they pay about as much in taxes as they consume in benefits. FACT: There is no evidence that immigrants weaken or undermine American economic, political, or cultural institutions.

15 Myths About Immigration Debunked | Immigration | Carnegie Corporation of New York

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Principal
5.3.42  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  magicschoolbusdropout @5.3.40    one month ago

Bussing immigrants to DC means that Kamala Harris doesn't have to travel as she focuses on the immigrant crises. 

 
 
 
magicschoolbusdropout
Freshman Principal
5.3.43  magicschoolbusdropout  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @5.3.42    one month ago
Bussing immigrants to DC means that Kamala Harris doesn't have to travel as she focuses on the immigrant crises. 

Yep !

She can just "Read it in the Papers" now. Someone else is "Working on it for her (Gov. Abbott)".

 
 
 
magicschoolbusdropout
Freshman Principal
5.3.44  magicschoolbusdropout  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @5.3.41    one month ago
who work in the US under fake social security numbers so they end up paying taxes and into social security but never withdraw on the benefits.

Pay in, take out nothing !

That's what Democrats are looking for, Cheap Labor "Deficit Reducers" to pay for their overspending !

 
 
 
GregTx
Junior Participates
5.3.45  seeder  GregTx  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @5.3.41    one month ago

How do they get those fake social security numbers and how do those fake numbers make it through I9 verification?

 
 
 
afrayedknot
Freshman Quiet
5.3.46  afrayedknot  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @5.3.41    one month ago

“…who work in the US…”

For U.S. companies who ignore and flaunt standing immigration employment laws. As always, follow the money. 

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Senior Quiet
5.3.47  Jack_TX  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @5.3.38    one month ago
The fact that you have 1.5 million is a whole different issue.

No...it's very much the same issue.  If we only had 5,000 we would just handle it.  But we don't.

I get your pain, but the way your gov is handling this is just horrible. It is political theater otherwise, he would be bussing them out all over the US and that is not happening.

I don't think you do get it, Perrie.  You're getting a tiny fraction of the traffic that we're still dealing with.  

To listen to officials in NYC and DC whine, you'd think they were the ones dealing with millions instead of thousands.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Senior Quiet
5.3.48  Jack_TX  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @5.3.41    one month ago
FACT: Immigrants in the United States have about a net zero effect on government budgets — they pay about as much in taxes as they consume in benefits. FACT: There is no evidence that immigrants weaken or undermine American economic, political, or cultural institutions.

That is completely true of legal immigrants.  Legal immigrants are a boost to the economy.  That's not who we're worried about, though.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
5.3.49  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Jack_TX @5.3.47    one month ago

Jack, I totally get it. I know we are dealing with a fraction of what you are dealing with. But obviously, this is not an effective method of getting the US gov to do what it should be doing. It is also unfair to pick on just two states to do this to. It's not like NY was badmouthing Texas prior to this. 

It was your thoughtful comment that caught my attention to this article. But I have to say, I get why people stay in their own lanes here. There is no consideration to any thoughtful commentary, and I find it very frustrating, especially since I don't seem to fit in anywhere here.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
5.3.50  Dulay  replied to  Sparty On @5.3.16    one month ago
One was legal, one is not.    The only standard that need be applied

All they had to do was be WHITE for them to enter legally and become citizens. 

Again, entering the US to seek asylum is NOT illegal. 

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
5.3.51  Sean Treacy  replied to  Dulay @5.3.10    one month ago
here were little to NO immigration laws in the US for white people until 1952,

False. 

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Principal
5.3.52  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @5.3.49    one month ago
But obviously, this is not an effective method of getting the US gov to do what it should be doing.

So far that's true. 

It is also unfair to pick on just two states to do this to.

Agree, add San Francisco, Seattle, Portland, LA, Chicago as future destinations.  Biden is not going to listen to Repubs, but maybe if enough Dem mayors and governors ask for help, maybe he will listen.

 
 
 
GregTx
Junior Participates
5.3.53  seeder  GregTx  replied to  Dulay @5.3.50    one month ago
Again, entering the US to seek asylum is NOT illegal. 

In any way you can illegally or legally, it certainly doesn't seem to matter to the Biden administration. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
5.3.54  Texan1211  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @5.3.52    one month ago
Biden is not going to listen to Repubs, but maybe if enough Dem mayors and governors ask for help, maybe he will listen.

Maybe, but we certainly have a hard time convincing the vaunted Biden/Harris Administration that there even IS a problem, so not sure Dem mayors and governors will recognize any problems.

I agree with shipping them wherever Dems have instituted sanctuaries for them. The Dem want the problems, give them the problems!

I think it is funny as hell that NYC and DC mayors are whining about it.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
5.3.55  Texan1211  replied to  Dulay @5.3.50    one month ago
Again, entering the US to seek asylum is NOT illegal. 

So what is the brilliant Biden/Harris plan for deporting all the folks who won't qualify for asylum, as most won't?

 
 
 
dennis smith
PhD Silent
5.3.56  dennis smith  replied to  GregTx @5.3.34    one month ago

Absolutely !

 
 
 
dennis smith
PhD Silent
5.3.57  dennis smith  replied to  magicschoolbusdropout @5.3.44    one month ago

You are spot on.

 
 
 
dennis smith
PhD Silent
5.3.58  dennis smith  replied to  Texan1211 @5.3.55    one month ago

There has been no plan since Jan 20 2021 and wont be until the Dems wake up or get voted out of office.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
5.3.59  Sparty On  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @5.3.29    one month ago

I guess it depends on what video or picture you are looking at.    I’ve see plenty at the border with backpacks, talking on cell phones and fresh fade haircuts.    Mostly military aged males who appear to be alone.

I guess they’ve already sent all the kids they could get their hands on ....

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
5.3.60  Sparty On  replied to  Dulay @5.3.50    one month ago
All they had to do was be WHITE for them to enter legally and become citizens. 

Wrong, they had to be processed through Ellis Island to become legal citizens.    They couldn’t just step or swim across a border.

I guess you don’t know much about this topic do you?    You should study up on it.    You’d be surprised what you would learn.

 
 
 
Jasper2529
Professor Participates
5.3.61  Jasper2529  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @5.3.13    one month ago
First of all, as I have stated, I am not for what is going on, on your border. That being said, shipping people off like they are cattle, is kind of gross.

What about Biden surreptitiously shipping illegal aliens on charter planes and transporting them in the middle of the night to TN, NY, NJ, CT, and other states? In NY alone, they were dropped off at Long Island, Newburgh, and Westchester airports and then bussed to other locations numerous times.

 
 
 
Jasper2529
Professor Participates
5.3.62  Jasper2529  replied to  Texan1211 @5.3.55    one month ago
So what is the brilliant Biden/Harris plan for deporting all the folks who won't qualify for asylum, as most won't?

That's approximately 90% of these alleged "asylum seekers" according to CBP and other federal stats.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Principal
5.3.63  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Jasper2529 @5.3.61    one month ago

Does TN have any sanctuary cities?

 
 
 
Jasper2529
Professor Participates
5.3.64  Jasper2529  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @5.3.63    one month ago

I don't know, but in 2021, Biden sent charter planes filled with illegal aliens to TN without notifying the governor or any mayors who were affected. Here's one of many articles:

 
 
 
GregTx
Junior Participates
5.3.65  seeder  GregTx  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @5.3.63    one month ago

 
 
 
pat wilson
Professor Guide
5.3.66  pat wilson  replied to  Jasper2529 @5.3.61    one month ago

  • The federal government transports adult detainees in its custody from one facility to another, or from one U.S. city to another during deportation proceedings.

  • The vast majority of people on the flights are unaccompanied minors who crossed the border, requested asylum under immigration law, and are being released from federal custody to a parent or sponsor.

  • Some of these flights happen at night, but they are not covert operations. The same types of flights were done by the Trump

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
5.3.67  Sparty On  replied to  Jasper2529 @5.3.61    one month ago

A “DOH!” moment for all those bagging on Gov Abbott for doing the same thing.

 
 
 
Jasper2529
Professor Participates
5.3.68  Jasper2529  replied to  Sparty On @5.3.67    one month ago

At least Abbott busses illegal aliens to Port Authority in the light of day and lets Hochul and Adams know what's happening. Biden does it at 2AM and doesn't tell the govs and mayors.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
5.3.69  Sparty On  replied to  Jasper2529 @5.3.68    one month ago

I hear Biden hired a bunch of old Air America pilots to fly those planes.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Senior Quiet
5.3.70  Jack_TX  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @5.3.49    one month ago
Jack, I totally get it. I know we are dealing with a fraction of what you are dealing with.

Thanks.

But obviously, this is not an effective method of getting the US gov to do what it should be doing.

That remains to be seen.  It's only been happening for a short time.

It is also unfair to pick on just two states to do this to. It's not like NY was badmouthing Texas prior to this. 

You are home to the Senate majority leader and the most vocal drama queen in "the squad".  I'm sure it's designed to encourage their constituents to get their attention. 

It was your thoughtful comment that caught my attention to this article. But I have to say, I get why people stay in their own lanes here. There is no consideration to any thoughtful commentary, and I find it very frustrating, especially since I don't seem to fit in anywhere here.

I know what you mean about not fitting in, and yeah, we certainly have our share of mindless cheerleaders who can't imagine the existence of any person who doesn't fit into their binary definitions.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Principal
6  Drinker of the Wry    one month ago

Thanks, I hadn't seen that.

 
 

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