Border, what border? Huge hole is cut in El Paso barrier to let migrants pour through - with desperate crossers also digging holes and using SEWERS to sneak into Texas

  

Category:  News & Politics

Via:  1stwarrior  •  one month ago  •  194 comments

Border, what border? Huge hole is cut in El Paso barrier to let migrants pour through - with desperate crossers also digging holes and using SEWERS to sneak into Texas

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T



A gaping hole cut into the border fence between   Mexico   and the US reveals the ease with which migrants can cross the border illegally - regardless of the   strict Title 42 rules .

On a stretch of the border fence just four miles from downtown El Paso,   Texas , traffickers cut the large opening close to a row of abandoned buildings.

The makeshift crossing point, beside the US-85 highway, was discovered by DailyMail.com just one hour after the   Supreme Court   ruled Title 42 will remain in effect. The 4ft-by-4ft hole appeared freshly cut - suggesting it had been used by migrants to cross illegally on Tuesday.

Once through, migrants could easily disappear into the US. The area where the hole was cut was not being patrolled when a reporter and photographer found the opening.

A police officer who was alerted to the discovery was unfazed and said such openings are no surprise to border patrollers. He said there was no need to raise an alarm as cameras which monitor the border would have spotted the access point.

The method is one of several novel techniques which migrants are using to cross into the US illegally.

In another shocking discovery on Monday night, a DailyMail.com photographer saw a man roll through a hole which had been dug beneath the border fence in El Paso. The tiny, cramped gap at a patch of wasteland near railway tracks by the Rio Grande river was just wide enough for one person to crawl through.

The following day, the hole had been loosely filled in an apparent attempt to conceal it. A white towel was draped across the spot to mark its location.

El Paso locals also told of smugglers using the underground sewer systems which connect the two countries.

‘You see dozens come up through manholes like this,’ said one local man, speaking just yards from the border fence.

Residents of the city have spoken previously about the shocking sight of groups of migrants emerging from sewer points in the street. Rosalinda Tapia told   KVIA : ‘They are not using the river anymore. They are using the water tunnels to come in.’ 

She said the migrants emerge and hide, then make a call arranging for someone in the US ‘to come pick them up.’

A set of ladders was hidden near one crossing point where migrants purportedly use the deep sewers to make the crossing. 

Several hours before the Supreme Court’s decision to maintain Title 42 into 2023, columns of migrants were waiting anxiously at the Mexican border for an announcement.

The groups included families with babies and young children. It’s thought many were waiting at the border for the announcement that Title 42 would be canned - making it easier for the people to remain in the US after crossing.

The decision leaves thousands of migrants who must now attempt to cross and face the prospect of almost immediate deportation - or risk illegal entry into the country.

ustice Neil Gorsuch joined the more liberal justices Sonia Sotomayor, Elena Kagan and Ketanji Brown Jackson to vote against keeping it in place. 

A Department of Homeland Security spokesperson said: 'As required by today’s Supreme Court order, the Title 42 public health order will remain in effect and individuals who attempt to enter the United States unlawfully will continue to be expelled to Mexico or their home country.

'People should not listen to the lies of smugglers who take advantage of vulnerable migrants, putting lives at risk. The border is not open, and we will continue to fully enforce our immigration laws.

'We will continue to manage the border, but we do so within the constraints of a decades-old immigration system that everyone agrees is broken. We need Congress to pass the comprehensive immigration reform legislation President Biden proposed the day he took office.'

States led by Republican attorneys general of Arizona and Louisiana filed an emergency request last week after the US Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit turned down their request to intervene in the case to argue against its end.

Biden administration officials have repeatedly insisted that the federal government is ready for the end of Title 42, but   Republicans and even some Democrats have claimed that President Joe Biden nor his advisers are grasping the full urgency of the situation .

White House press secretary Karine Jean Pierre issued a statement after the court's order: 'The Supreme Court’s order today keeps the current Title 42 policy in place while the Court reviews the matter in 2023. We will, of course, comply with the order and prepare for the Court’s review.


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1stwarrior
Professor Guide
1  seeder  1stwarrior    one month ago

Biden administration officials have repeatedly insisted that the federal government is ready for the end of Title 42, but    Republicans and even some Democrats have claimed that President Joe Biden nor his advisers are grasping the full urgency of the situation  .

Well, we can always go to the Virgin Islands to forget 'bout the "REAL" problems of the U.S.

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
1.1  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  1stwarrior @1    one month ago

I'll bet a dollar to a donut that Mayorkas ignores that and carries on with business as usual like he has for the last two years.

 
 
 
Eat The Press Do Not Read It
Senior Guide
1.2  Eat The Press Do Not Read It  replied to  1stwarrior @1    one month ago

Or, as Ted Cruz did, go to Cancun during a ferocious hurricane that hit Houston, Texas for a "much-needed holiday", while his constituents, wife, and kids remained in Texas.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
2  Sean Treacy    one month ago

“The border is secure” is the Big Lie.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
2.1  Ozzwald  replied to  Sean Treacy @2    one month ago
“The border is secure” is the Big Lie.

It has never been "secure", and never will be.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
2.1.1  Sean Treacy  replied to  Ozzwald @2.1    one month ago

Then why does the Biden administration keep saying it is?

 
 
 
GregTx
Junior Participates
2.1.2  GregTx  replied to  Ozzwald @2.1    one month ago

It has never been less secure than it is right now.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
2.1.3  Ozzwald  replied to  Sean Treacy @2.1.1    one month ago

Then why does the Biden administration keep saying it is?

Links?

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
2.1.4  Ozzwald  replied to  GregTx @2.1.2    one month ago

It has never been less secure than it is right now.

You're saying that those few miles of fencing that Trump did manage to get done, actually made it worse?  That is an amazing admission on your part.

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Guide
2.1.5  Greg Jones  replied to  Ozzwald @2.1    one month ago

Not if the Democrats have their way, it will never be secure...

They want it open for the cheap labor and possible votes for Democrats.

Who cares about the trafficking of women and children...

a never ending supply of drugs, courtesy of the cartels...

an ongoing influx of criminals and possible terrorists...

not to mention the disease and vermin they bring with them.

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
2.1.6  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Ozzwald @2.1.3    one month ago

 
 
 
GregTx
Junior Participates
2.1.7  GregTx  replied to  Ozzwald @2.1.4    one month ago

Right, cause that's what my post said. carry-on then....

 
 
 
cjcold
Professor Quiet
2.1.8  cjcold  replied to  Greg Jones @2.1.5    one month ago

[Deleted]

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Guide
2.1.9  seeder  1stwarrior  replied to  cjcold @2.1.8    one month ago

The intent of Title 42 not ringing enough bells for you?

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.10  Texan1211  replied to  Ozzwald @2.1.3    one month ago

read a paper or watch some wh pressers 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.11  Texan1211  replied to  Ozzwald @2.1.4    one month ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
George
Freshman Guide
2.1.12  George  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.11    one month ago

When you have no facts and only bullshit, you have to make up a position for the other person and then argue against it. 

 
 
 
afrayedknot
Sophomore Quiet
2.1.13  afrayedknot  replied to  George @2.1.12    one month ago

“…make up a position for the other person and then argue…”

…by george, you’ve got it…

 
 
 
George
Freshman Guide
2.1.14  George  replied to  afrayedknot @2.1.13    one month ago

Nailed the tactic of you and your buddies. Thanks for the confirmation!

 
 
 
GregTx
Junior Participates
2.1.15  GregTx  replied to  afrayedknot @2.1.13    one month ago
2.1.4

Could you point out any of that shit in my post?

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
2.1.16  Split Personality  replied to  GregTx @2.1.2    one month ago

Mathematically the CBP has never been larger than it is right now.

Technological improvements and cooperation with the military are at an all time

high. 

Texas has 9,000 National Guardsmen and Texas Rangers on the border

Arizona has added shipping container obstacles.

The total mileage of real walls and fencing have never been greater than they are now.

Millions are denied entry or are deported every year regardless 

Record drug busts every other month...

but the border is "less" secure?

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
2.1.17  Split Personality  replied to  Greg Jones @2.1.5    one month ago
Not if the Democrats have their way, it will never be secure...
They want it open for the cheap labor and possible votes for Democrats.

Sweeping partisan fear mongering...

Who cares about the trafficking of women and children...

Prove it?

a never ending supply of drugs, courtesy of the cartels...

As evidenced by month after month of record breaking busts by CBP ?

an ongoing influx of criminals and possible terrorists...

As evidenced by what terrorist attacks?  Most of our school shooters  are home grown.

not to mention the disease and vermin they bring with them.

True, some are sick or have COVID, most are suffering from malnutrition

but vermin Greg? 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.18  Texan1211  replied to  Ozzwald @2.1.4    one month ago

please provide a quote for the admission you claimed he made if there is one and it wasn't just imagined.

 
 
 
George
Freshman Guide
2.1.19  George  replied to  Split Personality @2.1.16    one month ago

You have to be absolutely ignorant or a blatant partisan to claim the border is secure. Maybe both.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.20  Texan1211  replied to  George @2.1.19    one month ago

No one with a lick of sense can claim the border is secure.

Absolutely no one.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
2.1.21  Sean Treacy  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.20    one month ago

It’s gaslighting 

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
2.1.22  Split Personality  replied to  George @2.1.19    one month ago

Please point out in English where I stated that the border is secure.

Greg said it's never been less secure which is easily disproved by studying the facts.

There were no walls or fences prior to 1910 when Mexico started building

barbed wire cattle fencing to prevent cross border grazing.

After that there no immigrant fences until WWII when the US started building chain link fences in border towns.

Immigrants just walked around them for decades.

GHW Bush put up the first 14 miles of Federal fence in the USA owned right of way along the CA border between Tiajuana and San Diego in 1992.

Bill Clinton "fortified" that fence by adding additional layers of fence and extending all eastward.

What Operation Gatekeeper accomplished in San Diego became a problem for every border town east of the West Coast

And so it started with GWBush trying to fence the 700 plus miles across CA, AZ and NM where the Federal government owns a 60 foot right of way for border protection.

The wall/fence was finished during the Obama Admin which satisfied the original law and spent millions upgrading or replacing ineffective fence.

They also worked with El Paso and other border towns in Texas where imminent domain could be used to add fencing.

The problem is that Texas having previously been a sovereign nation, has private property along most of its 1200 mile border with some NAtional Forrests and sovereign Indian nations that straddle both sides of the border.

Both the Obama Admin and more so the Trump Admin were bogged down in court trying to take private property from Texas ranchers and farmers. Not a good look, especially in Texas.

It's a mess.

But it's not the fault of any one modern Administration that the failed  governments of  some Central America countries and the failed Communist governments of Venezuela and Cuba are sending a human tsunami at us.

Remember, after the 2019 spike that Trump could not explain, that the Admin cut border patrol agents by 2,000 assuming that they had a handle on immigration, possibly because he believed his own BS, but in fact it was just COVID which apparently is less fearful now than dying or starving to death in Venezuela or Nicaragua.

It's up to Congress to figure out what to do. They have the power of the purse and it's coming soon enough when you can blame the Republican House or the Dem Senate for not spending what's necessary.

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
2.1.23  Ronin2  replied to  Split Personality @2.1.16    one month ago
Mathematically the CBP has never been larger than it is right now.

Mathematically more people are crossing the border than ever before. See post 3.1 Brandon is setting records for illegal border crossings each and every year. Those are just the ones they catch and record. The number of got aways is at a record high as well; not to mention those that enter and never are detected.

Technological improvements and cooperation with the military are at an all time high. 

Which doesn't mean shit when you don't have personnel to monitor cameras and detection devices; especially since Brandon has turned the BP into paper pushers processing illegal immigrants.

Texas has 9,000 National Guardsmen and Texas Rangers on the border

Which still isn't nearly enough is it? Hasn't stemmed the flow of illegals one damn bit has it? 9000 doesn't come close to replacing the BP lost due to pushing papers.

Arizona has added shipping container obstacles.

Not up on current events? Brandon's administration/DOJ is forcing Arizona's governor to remove them. Seems that Brandon doesn't give a shit about border security; despite what you claim.

The total mileage of real walls and fencing have never been greater than they are now.

Would be more; but Brandon the human fuck up machine canceled sections of the border wall that were due to be put up. US taxpayers still had to foot the bill for the contract costs- the wall sections were allowed to rust and decay. Some materials have been donated to Texas which is funding their own border wall section; and other government departments. Those that have not still need to be guarded costing the US taxpayers even more money.

Former Border Patrol chief Rodney Scott said the administration is paying about $5 million a day for border contracts that have been put on hold. ​

“Many of those projects today are just still on hold, so we’re paying contractors,” Scott told Fox News.

“For a while, it was almost five million a day between DoD and DHS to not build the border wall​,” he said, referring to the Department of Defense and the Department of Homeland Security. ​​

So please tell us all again how much Brandon and the Democrats care about border security.

Millions are denied entry or are deported every year regardless

Really, do fucking tell. Really look at the graph on post 3.1 . Not nearly enough are being denied entrance to this country. Maybe if every last damn illegal immigrant is shipped to a Democrat control bastion of stupidity sanctuary city they will finally get the damn point that the border isn't secure; and record numbers are crossing. Let's turn every last Democrat controlled northern sanctuary city into El Paso. See how they like going bankrupt with a POTUS that doesn't give a fuck.

Record drug busts every other month...

They are only capturing a fraction of what is crossing. In case you missed it there are a record number of drug deaths in the US; most of which are from illegal drugs crossing the southern border. 

.

More than 100,000 Americans died from drug overdoses between May 2020 and April 2021—the most ever recorded in a single year—according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

The number of drug overdose deaths was up almost 30% from the 78,000 deaths in the prior year, and was nearly three times that of traffic accident deaths and twice that of gun deaths during the same period.

Most of the deaths were due to opioids , fueled by the powerful drug fentanyl, which is often added to illegal drugs to enhance their potency.

but the border is "less" secure?

The border is only more secure to Brandon apologists. To those who are paying attention the border is less secure than ever before.  

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
2.1.24  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Split Personality @2.1.16    one month ago

You fail to mention the increased huge amounts of illegals and drugs getting through in the last 2 years that go unaccounted for.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
2.1.25  Ozzwald  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @2.1.6    one month ago
17 Times the Biden Administration Said the Border Is Secure

Did you actually listen to it?  The count does not match the statements.  Stating that you are taking steps to secure the border DOES NOT count as claiming that the border is secure.  Listening to your link, the count drops from the claimed 17, down to around 5, and half of those were not made by the Biden administration.

That being said, the few actual claims made are wrong.  The border is not secure and it NEVER HAS BEEN.  However it is also not an emergency, it is just the latest hyped version of fear mongering, just like those "migrant caravans" we used to hear about.

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Guide
2.1.26  seeder  1stwarrior  replied to  Split Personality @2.1.16    one month ago

Lemme see - the CBP handled from 458K to 2.6M in 8 years - how secure is that????

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Guide
2.1.27  seeder  1stwarrior  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @2.1.24    one month ago

And the CBP puts those numbers at THREE times the amount they encounter.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.1.28  Tessylo  replied to  Split Personality @2.1.17    one month ago

The vermin remark about our fellow human beings just makes me ill.  That's what they believe the migrants are, they see them also as feral cats

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
2.1.29  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  1stwarrior @2.1.27    one month ago

Yep. That's what my CBP neighbors here in Cochise County on the border are telling me.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
2.1.30  Ender  replied to  Ronin2 @2.1.23    one month ago

In your infinite wisdom, what is making people come here? Just because Joe is in office?

I love how republicans bitch and complain about this issue every time they have nothing else to run on.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
2.1.31  Ender  replied to  1stwarrior @2.1.26    one month ago

When has the border ever been secure?

Why do republicans think that if they keep doing the same failed things over and over again that it will somehow magically start working....

 
 
 
George
Freshman Guide
2.1.32  George  replied to  Ender @2.1.31    one month ago
Why do republicans think that if they keep doing the same failed things over and over again that it will somehow magically start working...

Typical, the retarded democrats have been in control for the last 2 years and sheep still blame republicans, in fact the democrat have had the Whitehouse for 10 of the last 14 years and control of congress most of the time and there are a group of partisan fucktards who will continue to blame republicans?

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
2.1.33  devangelical  replied to  Ender @2.1.30    one month ago

republican xenophobia has been a popular go to wedge issue in elections for over 100 years. since their hero ronnie raygun granted amnesty to millions of the undocumented, republicans have consistently blocked any attempt at congressional immigration reform that moved towards any standardized verification system for hiring and exposing the party's corporate benefactors to any legislation that would impose criminal penalties on them for hiring undocumented workers. it's funny how immigration reform is never a pressing issue whenever republicans have controlled all 3 branches of government, unless of course a 2000+ year old physical solution like building a wall is considered as such... 

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
2.1.34  Ender  replied to  George @2.1.32    one month ago

And the republicans never had control of congress all that time?

What is typical is the usual bullshit we hear day in and day out with no actual solutions to the problem put forth...

But do go on and just point fingers.

Seems all republicans are able to do these days.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
2.1.35  Ender  replied to  devangelical @2.1.33    one month ago

Their only solution to the border is stupid feel good remedies that have never worked.

They don't want to deal with any actual issues. Just use it as a crutch to win elections.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
2.1.36  Ender  replied to  devangelical @2.1.33    one month ago

The republican platform in a nutshell...

  • In 2008, the   platform   demanded a fence along the Southern Border.
  • In 2012, the   platform   demanded a   double layered   fence .
  • In 2016, the   platform   demanded a wall.
  • In 2020 they didn’t adopt a platform of any kind, preferring to run solely on rhetoric.
 
 
 
George
Freshman Guide
2.1.37  George  replied to  devangelical @2.1.33    one month ago
republican xenophobia has been a popular go to wedge issue in elections for over 100 years

Now we are blaming republicans for the democrats klan, internment of Japanese and their inherent racism for minorities.

Now we just wait for some idiot to claim they switched sides.

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
Professor Silent
2.1.38  Mark in Wyoming   replied to  Ender @2.1.34    one month ago
And the republicans never had control of congress all that time?

now you know just because a party has "control " doesnt mean they have the needed number of votes to get something done . neither party has had the needed numbers to do anything in reality .

 
 
 
George
Freshman Guide
2.1.39  George  replied to  Ender @2.1.34    one month ago

Not a filibuster proof majority like the dems had, Democrats in congress are scumbags who don't want to secure the border.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
2.1.40  Ender  replied to  Mark in Wyoming @2.1.38    one month ago

Tell that to almost every republican on this forum that thinks Biden can wave a magic wand to somehow give a green light to immigrants.

There are some republicans that say they will not even negotiate and 'boarder control' bills in congress until the border is secured...

So never?

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
2.1.41  Sean Treacy  replied to  Ender @2.1.31    one month ago
Why do republicans think that if they keep doing the same failed things over and over again that it will somehow magically start working....

Lol.  Imagine thinking that. 

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
2.1.42  Ender  replied to  George @2.1.39    one month ago

Do you really believe the boarder could be secured and have zero crossings....

I might as well say people fart fairy dust.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
2.1.43  Ender  replied to  Sean Treacy @2.1.41    one month ago

I don't have to imagine anything. I can see it in real time.

So what are your solutions Sean? What would you do besides building a wall?

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
2.1.44  Sean Treacy  replied to  Ender @2.1.42    one month ago
lly believe the boarder could be secured and have zero crossings....

Right, If we can't get it to absolute zero, no point in even trying to stop anyone.

We should approach murders the same way. Unless we can stop every single murder from happening, why bother trying to stop any? 

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
Professor Silent
2.1.45  Mark in Wyoming   replied to  devangelical @2.1.33    one month ago
ronnie raygun granted amnesty to millions of the undocumented, republicans have consistently blocked any attempt at congressional immigration reform

Now why do you think thats actully the case, that the blocking of further reforms  ? 

 Could it be that amnesty agreement of the 80s , was a compromise where both sides were suppose to get something? one side wanted amnesty , which they got , and the other side wanted the border secured and controlled , which they DIDNT get . good deal for one side , not so much for the other in that compromise  since they didnt get what was agreed to . In light of that , one side pissed away any trust expected in future agreements or compromises .

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
2.1.46  Ender  replied to  Sean Treacy @2.1.44    one month ago

Who is stopping? When has the boarder patrol stopped doing their jobs?

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
2.1.47  Ender  replied to  Mark in Wyoming @2.1.45    one month ago

So because Reagan gave amnesty, a republican by the way, the reps will never work with the dems again....

Sounds like a child stamping his foot down and throwing a tantrum.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
2.1.48  Sean Treacy  replied to  Ender @2.1.46    one month ago

Who is stopping? When has the boarder patrol stopped doing their jobs?

I have no idea what you are trying to say. I find it ridiculous to claim we shouldn't make things better because we can never make them perfect. 

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
2.1.49  Ender  replied to  Sean Treacy @2.1.48    one month ago

Again, what is your solution?

I never once said we should stop trying yet I have still never heard once what your solution would be.

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
Professor Silent
2.1.50  Mark in Wyoming   replied to  Ender @2.1.47    one month ago

way to miss the point , an agreement was made , one side did as agreed , the other didnt , so the side that was stiffed should continue to trust the side that stiffed them?

if it were a business and the business owner got stiffed on a credit due bill , it would be perfectly alright for the owner of the business to deny any credit and demand cash on delivery , same difference to me .

 and it seems to me those that did the stiffing, created their own problems and are now throwing the tantrum because the other side wont play by their rules  .

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
2.1.51  Sean Treacy  replied to  Ender @2.1.43    one month ago
I can see it in real time.

so in your world, the Republican plans to secure the border have already been fully enacted.

So what are your solutions Sean?

Make amnesty applications  online.  No more applications on the border.  Anyone entering the country without asylum already granted is turned back/deported.  Reinstate the Trump negotiated agreements for safe third countries.  No more catch and release. Catch and immediately deport.  E- Verify.  Start deporting illegal aliens from the interior of the country.  Mandate local governments comply with ICE requests.  Increase fencing/walls as appropriate. 

That's a start. It's not that difficult.  Make it much harder to successfully cross the border and remove the incentives to stay for those who do. 

 
 
 
George
Freshman Guide
2.1.52  George  replied to  Mark in Wyoming @2.1.50    one month ago
an agreement was made , one side did as agreed, the other didn't

I blame the republicans for this, anybody who trusts a murdering scumbag like Kennedy and his fellow democrats deserve whatever happens, now democrat politicians will forever be known as liars who can't be trusted.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
2.1.53  Ender  replied to  Mark in Wyoming @2.1.50    one month ago

Most of those people 40 years ago are not even in congress any more. It is just an excuse.

 
 
 
George
Freshman Guide
2.1.54  George  replied to  Ender @2.1.53    one month ago

But the character of the players haven't changed, lying scumbags then, lying scumbags now!

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
2.1.55  Ender  replied to  Sean Treacy @2.1.51    one month ago

You would have to change a lot of laws to do a lot of what you are saying.

The right to seek asylum — or safety from persecution — in another country was born out of the tragedies of World War II and the horrors of the Holocaust. In its aftermath, dozens of nations committed to never again slam the door on people in need of protection. The right to asylum was enshrined in 1948’s Universal Declaration of Human Rights and then again in the Refugee Convention of 1951 and its 1967 Protocol.

The United States passed its own federal law in the Refugee Act of 1980 , for people who are fleeing persecution on “account of race, religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group, or political opinion.” The Refugee Act is meant to ensure that individuals who seek asylum from within the U.S. or at its border are not sent back to places where they face persecution.

I think they tried everify. Didn't DeSantos make it easier to get around that?

From what I gather, they do deport people from the interior. That has never stopped.

And you want the feds to have control over the states...

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
2.1.56  Ender  replied to  George @2.1.54    one month ago

And the same can be said in reverse.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.1.57  Tessylo  replied to  Mark in Wyoming @2.1.50    one month ago

it is you and your buddies throwing tantrums and whining incessantly

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
Professor Silent
2.1.58  Mark in Wyoming   replied to  Ender @2.1.53    one month ago

very true , but one of them is sitting in the White house and directing executive policy .....which begs the question , if he proved to be un trustworthy then , why should i trust him now ? i could say the same for trump, i didnt trust him before , why would one think i would trust him now ?

 
 
 
George
Freshman Guide
2.1.59  George  replied to  Ender @2.1.56    one month ago

I could agree with you, but then we both would be wrong. The republicans haven't promised democrats X in return for Y and then bold faced gave them the finger like the lying scumbags did, because if it had happened the other wat around, the whining would still be at epic proportions today from cry baby dems.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
2.1.60  Ender  replied to  George @2.1.59    one month ago

So you are doing what you accuse other people of maybe doing....

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
2.1.61  Ender  replied to  Mark in Wyoming @2.1.58    one month ago

The dems and reps could still come together and try and find working solutions.

I get the feeling that most of the time they don't want to as they all like to use it as a tool to rile up the masses. They could get together and pass reform that would bypass Biden. 

Even so, no matter what is done, people from both sides will still yell and scream that it went either too far or not far enough.

Personally I am sick of hearing either side complaining about it or even in some circumstances make up lies about what is happening.

All of them need to shut the fuck up about it unless they are going to get off their asses and actually try to make progress.

Still my opinion is nothing will stop any flow. They will still come.

As I always say, until we stop the reason for the flows, they will continue.

 
 
 
George
Freshman Guide
2.1.62  George  replied to  Ender @2.1.60    one month ago

No, not whining, just not going to ever trust a group of lying scumbags. 

What should happen is, they should arrest the illegals, seize any and all property they have, deport them and auction off their belongings that they have acquired while here and use the money for border enforcement. they should also tax at 50% all money transfers to foreign countries by individuals.  

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
2.1.63  Sean Treacy  replied to  Ender @2.1.55    one month ago
hange a lot of laws to do a lot of what you are saying.

Sure. We still, nominally, live in a country that is governed by laws rather than Presidential edicts so Congress has to play a part in any comprehensive solution.

I think they tried everify

It's never been made mandatory on the federal level.

 t hey do deport people from the interior. 

The odds of being deported from the interior of the country are infinitesimal.  "We have fundamentally changed immigration enforcement in the interior," Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas declared in an interview with CBS News in January. "For the first time ever, our policy explicitly states that a non-citizen's unlawful presence in the United States will not, by itself, be a basis for the initiation of an enforcement action.

.

u want the feds to have control over the states...

Want has nothing to do with it. The feds control immigration policy.  They have to do it or it can't be done. 

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
2.1.64  Trout Giggles  replied to  Ender @2.1.61    one month ago

Did you ever watch Star Wars Episode 2 where Anakin is all grown up and he's in a field of flowers talking with Padame? He basically comes out and says somebody should force the Senate to make rules.

For some reason that came into my head as I was reading your comment

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
2.1.65  Split Personality  replied to  1stwarrior @2.1.26    one month ago
the CBP handled from 458K to 2.6M in 8 years - how secure is that????

What is your definition of secure?  You just proved that the CBP isn't being overrun.

So what is your solution?

Hire more CBP?

It's like the worst job in the states in the worst environment.

Their attrition rate is 6 %, nearly double the rate of all other Federal agencies.

AFGE | Why More Border Patrol Agents Quit

Turn the border and the towns along it into a new DMZ?

Think Ed would like that?

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
2.1.66  Sean Treacy  replied to  Split Personality @2.1.65    one month ago
ou just proved that the CBP isn't being overrun.

And with that, logic was pronounced dead. 

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
2.1.67  Ender  replied to  Split Personality @2.1.65    one month ago

Secure seems to be an arbitrary term.

I have never seen any defined metric.

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
2.1.68  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Split Personality @2.1.65    one month ago
You just proved that the CBP isn't being overrun.

I think you may have misunderstood what 1st was stating

from 458K per year to 2.6M per year in 8 years

 
 
 
George
Freshman Guide
2.1.69  George  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @2.1.68    one month ago

Just another bullshit declaration from a Biden apologist, You handled 2 million proving you weren't overrun, which conveniently overlooks the 3 million that got by while you were handling the 2 million. Is there no integrity left in progressives? 

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
2.1.70  Split Personality  replied to  George @2.1.69    one month ago
which conveniently overlooks the 3 million that got by while you were handling the 2 million.

Two things George,  Prove how many got away.

When you are done with that maybe you can explain, as a Trump apologist,

why Mr. Trump didn't "fix things" concerning immigration when he had the trifecta for the first two years of his Administration instead of touting construction projects which every immigrant has proven don't work. 

Is there no integrity left in progressives? 

I would love to see the same from conservatives instead of personal

and partisan insults.

 
 
 
GregTx
Junior Participates
2.1.71  GregTx  replied to  Split Personality @2.1.16    one month ago
but the border is "less" secure?

Yes.

 
 
 
afrayedknot
Sophomore Quiet
2.1.72  afrayedknot  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @2.1.68    one month ago

“…from 458K per year to 2.6M per year in 8 years.”

Thus crossing three distinct administrations and following decades of all too familiar dysfunction. Words and walls are but political motives, ignoring the origin in the never ending vitriol bemoaning the outcome. 

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
2.1.73  Split Personality  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @2.1.68    one month ago

What's happened in the last 8 years in South America?  Venezuela ?

Does anyone pay attention or care?

Do we live on an island ( I wish)?

Wasn't this shit happening for the last 50 years?

Why is it always one parties fault, but the other party during it's 8 year runs did nothing

either, (Ok, Bush, Clinton and Bush put up 600 miles of chain link fence which the masses cut through or climb over or dig under )

We are at new records but it's not like this hasnt been happening for a long time.

512

 
 
 
George
Freshman Guide
2.1.74  George  replied to  Split Personality @2.1.70    one month ago
Two things George,  Prove how many got away.

Fuck off, you can't prove how many got away. because the got away, so by definition there is no way to prove that amount, [ Deleted ]

When you are done with that maybe you can explain, as a Trump apologist,

Didn't vote for him. [ Deleted ]

why Mr. Trump didn't "fix things" concerning immigration when he had the trifecta for the first two years of his Administration instead of touting construction projects which every immigrant has proven don't work. 

[ Deleted ]

Is there no integrity left in progressives? 
I would love to see the same from conservatives instead of personal and partisan insults.

[ Deleted ]

For those who want facts instead of liberal partisan bullshit, the number that got away is likely twice what this POS administration claims it is.

Yale, MIT study: 22 million, not 11 million, undocumented immigrants in US

BY  RAFAEL BERNAL  - 09/21/18 4:38 Yale, MIT study: 22 million, not 11 million, undocumented immigrants in US | The Hill [ Please make proper use of the quote function by placing only the words of other Newstalkers in quotes, not your own.  Toggling the quotation mark at the far left of the toolbar turns quotes on and off. ]

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
2.1.75  Ender  replied to  Split Personality @2.1.73    one month ago

That has been my point all along. They are not going to stop coming here unless the reasons they have to leave their homelands to begin with are addressed.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
2.1.76  Split Personality  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @2.1.68    one month ago
I think you may have misunderstood what 1st was stating from 458K per year to 2.6M per year in 8 years

Thank you,

but then I would ask why stop at 8 years?

Because from 1976 to 2009 it was over 600,000 a year as high as 1.7 million.

But that doesn't pour enough shade on Biden so we just conveniently forget that immigration isn't

just a function of how good things are here,

as much as how bad things are elsewhere.

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
2.1.77  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Split Personality @2.1.73    one month ago

I note the two peak years were 1986 (Reagan and his believing Democrats would live up to their half of the bargain) and 2000. The ending year of Clinton. Look at 2004 to 2020. Something was going right.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
2.1.78  Split Personality  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @2.1.77    one month ago

Oh please don't go there and start talking about the declining economy under Bush and

the meltdown in 2008 -2009, 

someone might misinterpret that Obama, "the great deporter", did something right.

Can't have that can we?

Then we would have to figure out what happened in 2019 ( Venezuela reached a 10 million % inflation rate )

and cover for Mr Trump.

Covid helped in 2020 but all bets are off now that that vaccines are readily available.

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
2.1.79  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Split Personality @2.1.78    one month ago
Can't have that can we?

Why not?

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
2.1.80  Split Personality  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @2.1.79    one month ago

Sorry, premature publication.

It happens.

LMAO 

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
2.1.81  Sean Treacy  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @2.1.77    one month ago
Something was going right.

No, no, back to back record breaking years with 2022 being  30% higher than any other year going back decades means nothing has changed.

Breaking records by 30% is completely normal. 30% isn't even noticeable. If you got your pay cut by 30%, you wouldn't care, if you even noticed.  

Watcing people dismiss the massive increase in illegal immigration since Biden was sworn as is normal and nothing to pay attention to is like watching the black night dismiss his wounds in the Holy Grail.

"It's just a flesh wound"

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
2.1.82  Split Personality  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @2.1.79    one month ago

Obama added 3000 CBP agents for the Southern Border

but by 2017 3000 had quit or retired  which is a shame because it takes too long to hire and retain them.

Trump signed an executive order to hire 15,000 more but 2 years later was looking at hundreds of new vacancies after only hiring 33 new agents.

Trump ordered 15,000 new border and immigration officers — but got thousands of vacancies instead - Los Angeles Times (latimes.com)

Currently we can't even hire enough to cover the people who retire.

Inside CBP's Multi-Year Staffing Struggle (pbs.org)

And in between El Paso and Del Rio is a housing wasteland

 
 
 
George
Freshman Guide
2.1.83  George  replied to  Split Personality @2.1.82    one month ago
bama added 3000 CBP agents for the Southern Border Trump took 3,000 away,

You didn't actually read the article you attached, because what you wrote there is a lie.

Obama 

2009  there was 20119 border patrol agents, in 2017 19437, so what kind of liberal bullshit math is that +3000?

U.S. border patrol - agent staffing 2020 | Statista

Maybe you are counting the construction workers used to build the cages that Barry the daft put brown kids into that you guys lied and said trump did? 

 
 
 
GregTx
Junior Participates
2.1.84  GregTx  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @2.1.77    one month ago

Did you notice that for both of those peak years there was a buildup to them? Strange that trend isn't replicated....

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
2.1.85  Split Personality  replied to  George @2.1.83    one month ago

Poor George.

— President Obama, November 20, 2014

Under the Obama administration, the resources that the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) dedicates to security at the Southwest border are at an all-time high. Today, there are 3,000 additional Border Patrol agents along the Southwest Border, and our border fencing, unmanned aircraft surveillance systems, and ground surveillance systems have more than doubled since 2008.

Continuing to Strengthen Border Security | The White House (archives.gov)

This may help you.

512

At the end of 2008 (bush) there were 17,499 agents.

At the end of 2009 (obama) there were 20,119 agents 

which peaked at the end of 2010 at 20,444

So, OK Presidents exaggerate by rounding up,  2945 new agents, a16% increase

not 3,000.  jrSmiley_84_smiley_image.gif

Total CBP employees increased, budget increased but agents (again) slipped to

19437 by the end of 2017 (trump) down from 19,828 (obama).

Glad I could help you.

 
 
 
GregTx
Junior Participates
2.1.86  GregTx  replied to  Split Personality @2.1.85    one month ago

So the PBS article you linked is wrong?

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
2.1.87  Split Personality  replied to  GregTx @2.1.86    one month ago

The PBS article I linked doesn't mention Obama or numbers of agents other than in Trumps 4 years.

I don't see Obama or 2008 or 2009 mentioned in it.

It is an article about Trump.

Your Statisia link matches the chart I linked from the government website, btw.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
2.1.88  Split Personality  replied to  George @2.1.74    one month ago

So in other words,

You have no proof only estimates and the estimate you provided includes the hundreds of thousands of people that overstay their visas annually plus unreported births, not border control efficiency. It also states that the real number could be anywhere between 16.5 million and 29.1 million.  Sounds really scientific.

You don't know how to respond using the tools at your disposal

and cannot communicate without anger and insults.

Got it.

 
 
 
GregTx
Junior Participates
2.1.89  GregTx  replied to  Split Personality @2.1.87    one month ago
Still, initial gains were slim. In 2018, its first year of growth in nearly a decade, U.S. Border Patrol increased staffing by just 188 people, to 19,555 agents – despite pressure from the administration to hire thousands more agents. From 2018 to 2019, hiring across CBP increased by 46 percent, bringing in 3,448 new frontline CBP personnel. Accounting for attrition, Border Patrol grew by 93 agents during the surge.

From your link, bolding mine. BTW I haven't posted a link in this thread. 

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
2.1.90  Split Personality  replied to  GregTx @2.1.89    one month ago

Damn it GregTx, you are absolutely correct and the reporter for PBS is wrong

as proven by George's Statistia link and my CBP link.

And I apologize, I thought I was responding to my new best friend George  jrSmiley_91_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
GregTx
Junior Participates
2.1.91  GregTx  replied to  Split Personality @2.1.90    one month ago

No problem, also as an aside, if you could link current info that would be appreciated.

jrSmiley_79_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
2.1.92  Split Personality  replied to  GregTx @2.1.91    one month ago

not published yet.

government graphs and agency information,

they always seem to be at least 18 months behind

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Sophomore Principal
2.1.93  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Split Personality @2.1.92    one month ago
they always seem to be at least 18 months behind

Good enough for government work.

 
 
 
GregTx
Junior Participates
2.1.94  GregTx  replied to  Split Personality @2.1.92    one month ago

Perhaps that will help..

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
2.1.95  Split Personality  replied to  GregTx @2.1.94    one month ago

It will be a while before the information is merged into the currently easy to find graphs.

Overall, in FY 2021, there were 1.72 million CBP encounters that resulted in either expulsion under the CDC’s Title 42 public health authority or processing as Title 8 immigration enforcement cases (“enforcement encounters”).  The Department completed 1.2 million repatriations, including expulsions under Title 42 and removals under Title 8, which represents a 15-year high that is more than two-and-a-half times as many repatriations as in FY 2020.   Most people encountered at the border (62 percent) were expelled under the Title 42 authority to prevent the spread of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19). In FY 2021, high border encounters were also driven by multiple factors: a continued long-term shift from almost all encounters being single adults from Mexico to large numbers of individuals in family units; a continued rise in encounters of unaccompanied children; and increasing migration flows from countries other than Mexico or the Northern Triangle.  

from a different cbp website 2021 total encounters was 1,956,519

so about 230,000 admitted for asylum?

CBP Enforcement Statistics Fiscal Year 2021 | U.S. Customs and Border Protection

Fiscal year 2022 will have record breaking numbers when drug interdiction numbers are released

Fentanyl seizures at the border shatter records in 2022 (nypost.com)

 
 
 
GregTx
Junior Participates
2.1.96  GregTx  replied to  Split Personality @2.1.95    one month ago
so about 230,000 admitted for asylum?

Where did that number come from?

 
 
 
Eat The Press Do Not Read It
Senior Guide
2.1.97  Eat The Press Do Not Read It  replied to  Mark in Wyoming @2.1.50    one month ago

Did Mexico pay for the border, as Trump said they would when he was elected? Or, did his buddy, Steve Bannon, pocket most of the money designated by donations to the Wall Construction, instead go into Steve's personal account?

"Inquiring Minds Want To Know!"

MAGA Re-Puritans wants to "Ban Books-Not Military Style AR-15s" as Clinton did. And, of course, demand that "The Bible" be taught in Schools. However, they forgot to zero in on which bible should be taught.

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
Professor Silent
2.1.98  Mark in Wyoming   replied to  Eat The Press Do Not Read It @2.1.97    one month ago

As for question 1 , why ask me? I never believed that they would ,  and what makes you think i would believe such a thing ?

 As for the 2nd part, sure im into banning kids my grandkids ages getting their hands on certain types of publications , cmon man even you wouldnt let a 3-4 YO be looking at penthouse playboy hustler and screw  magazines right ? its simply not age appropriate , and if you think it is , well its not an inquiring mind but a cracked mind that person has  and time to readjust the meds at the institute.

the AR-15 was banned ? sorry  that little thing under clinton didnt ban them , they could still be purchased  and possessed , if anything they were brought to public attention and more people ended up wanting one , and of course price skyrocketed to get one . SOOO ole willie jeff the pickle hider doesnt get a cookie for that .

 lastly and finally, as for the "bible ", cant say much about it ,  its teachings or

'laws", because personally I dont follow the thing  not exactly "inspirational or divine reading  for me .

 and hey.... bless your everlovin little pitterpattin polkadotted heart .... 

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
2.1.99  Split Personality  replied to  GregTx @2.1.96    one month ago

Item A from the CBP says there were 1,956,519 total "encounters"

and item B, (your link), says they denied entry or deported 1.72 million based on Titles 8 & 42 (same website)

The difference is roughly 230,000 that were not turned away.

Assumedly, they came to a legit port of entry over a legal bridge and met the criteria.

Anyone wading across the river, coming through holes in a fence or "wall" etc

get tossed back across the border. 

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
2.1.100  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Split Personality @2.1.65    4 weeks ago

"Turn the border and towns along it into a new DMZ?"

A lot of us feel that they already are, but it is the drug cartels that are doing that by taking advantage of the weaknesses of the current administration. They have hamstrung the CBP and tied one hand behind their backs not allowing them to do their jobs thanks to confusing and ineffective policy regarding our Southern borders. Those of us that live right on the border know this, but we are ignored by our elected officials and people in DC.

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
2.1.101  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Split Personality @2.1.99    4 weeks ago

Again, it seems you fail to take into account or mention that at least an estimated 30 to 40% beyond the figures you mentioned make it across and never get caught to head for points East, West, or North to disappear into the woodwork. We have a Southern border that is more porous than my late wife's favorite pasta strainer!

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
2.1.102  Split Personality  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @2.1.101    4 weeks ago

30 to 40%?

We are never going to agree on that.

When I lived near Nogales we had a layer of CBP at the border and again at 13 miles and again between Tubac & Old Tuscon.

And it was the first and third layers that caught the most and returned them.

The problem has always been the recidivism.  CBP knew too many by sight &

name.

Every Texas LEO and Texas Ranger is looking for illegals everyday.

I can't drive 2 miles on an expired inspection sticker but non English speaking  illegals can disappear from sight and traverse Texas without detection?  /s

C'momn man!

That's an insult to Texas.

The US is a funny place.  We don't want immigration, but we sort of do.

Everyone in Doylestown PA knew the backside of the commercial lots belonging to Sylvan Pools had trailers occupied by illegals in the 90's but ICE never showed up until the last week of the pool construction season.  And every year the news stations and newspapers (remember those?)  acted all surprised and indignant when those people were rounded up and deported (again).

Existing laws against the employers don't work.  That is a huge part of the

problem. No work, no food, they go home.

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
2.1.103  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Split Personality @2.1.102    4 weeks ago

May I ask how long ago you lived near Nogales?  I currently live in Douglas and the percentages I'm talking about are in the last two years or so. In addition, all interior CBP highway checkpoints in Southern Arizona have been shut down and removed making it harder to catch and detain those illegals that slip through at the actual physical border area.

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
Professor Silent
2.2  Mark in Wyoming   replied to  Sean Treacy @2    one month ago

hell i recognized trumps " big lie " when it was uttered , in my mind , the administration , and thus their supporters stating the border is secure is the "new" big lie ... i will be happy if my congressional reps in Dc simply state to his majesty and his minions  , secure the border and have total and compete control of entry both at points of entry and along the border , and then discussions can begin about immigration rules and changes needed  , until then ( my words ) , go pound  sand into a dry hole on the beach ... this isnt going to be like the reagan years and the amnesty deal of the 80s , you pay up first before delivery .

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
2.2.1  Split Personality  replied to  Mark in Wyoming @2.2    one month ago

Then you have to suspend Posse Comitatus, at least in the Roosevelt Reservation,

and seize the private property along a thousand miles of Texas border, cutting off the

water rights and supplies from the Rio Grande for thousands of Texas ranches and farms.

and turning that border into a new Reservation something akin to the Berlin Wall.

Do you really want to go there?

These people tunnel under San Diego regularly, now they are coming out of the sewers

in El Paso - they are that desperate.

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Guide
2.2.2  seeder  1stwarrior  replied to  Split Personality @2.2.1    one month ago

Or they can do what Eisenhower did - round'm up, ship'm out.

Oh yeah, they are desperate - where else are they going to get a government to feed them, medicate them, house them, provide them transportation, educate them, etc. FOR FREE?????

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
Professor Silent
2.2.3  Mark in Wyoming   replied to  Split Personality @2.2.1    one month ago

who said anything about using active duty military  which PC applies to , I didnt , and PC has been either ignored or watered down since its adoption .

And depending on who does the activation of the national guard , will determine if PC applies at all. the feds cant use them in the manner  you are supposing , but the state can if the state has a comesurate and equal law akin to federal law . but that opens a whole different can of worms doesnt it ?

 way i understand and read , the federal government has a 60 ft easement along the entire border irregardless of who owns the property  easements usually mean another has access to something and can pretty much do whats needed  .

 walls or fences serve one of 2 purposes actually , they either keep something in , or something out  so what was the purpose of the berlin wall? it was to keep  people in communist controlled areas and not flee to what was considered the free west .   a border wall will be meant to keep people OUT  and convince them to use the legal at this time methods of entry . and in both instances they were simply barriers meant to slow the progression , everyone knows it wont stop the issue , but it sure can slow it down if done properly.

Being desperate , does not give one right or liberty to flaunt or disregard existing law . they choose to do so they can also face the consequenses of their actions .

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
2.2.4  Split Personality  replied to  Mark in Wyoming @2.2.3    one month ago
but that opens a whole different can of worms doesnt it ?

Name another option that will deter the masses of migrators.  What we have been doing obviously doesn't satisfy everyone.

way i understand and read , the federal government has a 60 ft easement along the entire border irregardless of who owns the property  easements usually mean another has access to something and can pretty much do whats needed  .

Unfortunately this was not applied to Texas because they were a sovereign nation and would not hear of it when they were admitted to the Union.  Why?  Too many important families with property bordering the Rio Grande and back then, immigration wasn't an issue unless you were Chinese, therefore the legal issues that each Administration has had to deal with along 1,200 miles of Texas-Mexico border. It was accepted behavior that Tejanos and Mexicans traveled back and forth freely to vist relatives and conduct business.

The Roosevelt Reservation stops where New Mexico touches Texas.

Roosevelt Reservation - Wikipedia

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
Professor Silent
2.2.5  Mark in Wyoming   replied to  Split Personality @2.2.4    one month ago
Name another option that will deter the masses of migrators. 

( S) could always try and use the north korean method , shoot on sight at the border or DMZ... going either way if not at a controlled entry point.(S)

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
2.2.6  Split Personality  replied to  1stwarrior @2.2.2    one month ago
Or they can do what Eisenhower did - round'm up, ship'm out.

Your hero?

Yes, he terminated the Bracero Program against the wishes of most Texas, and West Coast farmers and ranchers causing a million people to self deport while arresting and deporting others, Braceros or not.  The total illegal population then was about 3 million confined to CA, AZ, NM and TX. There were only 800 CBP agents.

On the other hand Eisenhower was born in Texas and had a dark spot in his heart for Mexicans and Indians.

“A cadet would become famous, the Army players believed, if he knocked Thorpe out of the game with a hit so powerful it kidnapped Thorpe from consciousness,” Anderson wrote. Eisenhower, a blonde-haired, blue-eyed athlete, had been looking forward to the game for months and “fully expected to be the chosen one—the player who was going to deliver the knockout blow that would send Thorpe out of the game and into a hospital bed.”

The hit came early in the game. Eisenhower and another linebacker teamed up against Thorpe, throwing themselves as hard as they could at Carlisle’s most valuable player. Thorpe fumbled then writhed on the ground in pain, clutching his shoulder as Eisenhower celebrated.

As President of the United States more than four decades later, Eisenhower took a similar stance toward Natives. During his tenure in office, Congress enacted three assimilation programs that dramatically changed the federal government’s relationships with Indians: terminating tribal sovereignty, relocating Indians to urban areas and transferring federal law enforcement jurisdiction on Indian reservations to the states.
Dwight D. Eisenhower: Tried to Knock Out Jim Thorpe, and Assimilate Indians - ICT (indiancountrytoday.com)

OOPS.

Oh yeah, they are desperate - where else are they going to get a government to feed them, medicate them, house them, provide them transportation, educate them, etc. FOR FREE?????

Gee, doesn't that happen every time we invade a country and defeat the natives?

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
2.2.7  Split Personality  replied to  Mark in Wyoming @2.2.5    one month ago
( S) could always try and use the north korean method , shoot on sight at the border or DMZ... going either way if not at a controlled entry point.(S)

Which is exactly why I brought up Posse Commitatus and militarizing the Roosevelt Reservation like The Berlin Wall.

See?

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
Professor Silent
2.2.8  Mark in Wyoming   replied to  Split Personality @2.2.7    one month ago

im looking , but i dont see where i said it would be the military doing the shooting even if i was being sarcastic as is noted  .... so far the only time i have mentioned the active military is in response to you bringing them up .

 A canadian model of immigration could also be used as well , potential immigrants would need to be sponsored by an individual already a citizen ( one on one basis ) , have a job/employment already waiting for them to arrive , have enough money to survive on without state or federal governmental assistance until they are naturalized if thats what they are coming for . of course they would have to abide by all laws of this country and leave some of their "customs" where they came from , such as sex with underaged individuals , i mention that because of a case that just showed up locally . that could happen after the border is shown secure and controlled , secured meaning , if they cross other than an established crossing point controlled by the government they are expelled no excuses ,  controlled means those coming through those check points are vetted BEFORE they are allowed in .

 A now 44 year old illegally entered the country 4 years ago ,he got arrested for violent sexual assault , the state authorities picked him up , the feds stepped in and took the case , deported him , 2 years later he is back in the same town arrested in the first place , this tme is arrested for the rape of an 8 year old child . Feds step in again take the case federal , deport again 

 this person ( used loosely) was just arrested AGAIN , after crossing the border illegally now for a 3rd time and after being deported twice , again in the same town he commited the other 2 offenses , THIS time the authorities are pushing to try him for the rape of the 8 year old at the state level which never went away even when the feds tried him  ( not fed ) and put his ass in Rawlins State prison for a very long time . likely in GENPOP and as aknown sexual and child predator .

tell me the border is secure and controlled and only the really good people are crossing ? 

 im sure we can give a number of how many got through about as well as the government can tell us exactlly how many firearms are in the country , neither can be done , so best either can do is a very rough and educated estimate , but you know that as well as i do .

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
2.2.9  Split Personality  replied to  Mark in Wyoming @2.2.8    one month ago

The only option to deportation in a criminal case is to arrest them and house them in a prison vs deportation.

Expense increases equal tax increases.

Just the facts.

Tell your Senator & Congressman your views.

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
Professor Silent
2.2.10  Mark in Wyoming   replied to  Split Personality @2.2.9    one month ago
The only option to deportation in a criminal case is to arrest them and house them in a prison vs deportation.

(S) in the case i mentioned above? a bullet in the back of the head would suffice, and tell his home country to fuck off  when they object and keep their criminals there if they are so "concerned " how their citizens are treated after they commit a crime  or they get the same thing , that should slow them down at least (s)

* and before you bring up well other countries will start or will do the same , US citizens should be very aware , what rights and protections they have while in this country actually really do end once they leave and go outside of this country , they ARE at the mercy and under the jurisdiction of other countries their laws and customs ,  they fuck up outside the country , the US government can do what they can to  a point , but ultimately its on that person if they fuck up in another country .and yes i think griner should have spent her sentence in a russian jail . 

 as for telling mt reps my views , i have many times over the years usually when they first get elected and then again when they get re elected and as needed in the mean time  as has many others , why you think they wont compromise until the border is secure and controlled ?

 personally im ok with the status quo and whats currently happening , these folks show up , border states  or non sanctuary states let them know there is no assistance  for them there nor are they wanted there , inform them these are states/ cities( show list of states/ cities  that have publically made the declaration ) that have claimed to be "sanctuary " places and they claim to welcome immigrants both legal AND illegal , here is a bus ticket to get you to one of these places of your choice .

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
2.2.11  Split Personality  replied to  Mark in Wyoming @2.2.10    one month ago
(S) in the case i mentioned above? a bullet in the back of the head would suffice, and tell his home country to fuck off  when they object and keep their criminals there if they are so "concerned " how their citizens are treated after they commit a crime  or they get the same thing , that should slow them down at least (s)

Criminals are generally damaged goods that will never follow the rules and keep reoffending.  I have no issues with compromise.  Keep foreign offenders 10 years then trade them back for our own.  Make it clear that if they are caught in this country again they will lose a leg and be put on the governments shoot to kill list.

During the Greiner trade Bill Richardson gave a very frank interview on what happens to Americans in foreign countries when they break the laws.  The State Department won't do anything in spite of our romantic movies impressions that we are invulnerable.

why you think they wont compromise until the border is secure and controlled ?

I must have gotten the wrong impression from your earlier comments

personally im ok with the status quo and whats currently happening

The only issue I have is Abbott putting people on buses under false pretenses and shipping them under clothed into a winter storm for political theater.  It did not play well the first time. Subsequent trips just defy any morals he claims to have.

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
Professor Silent
2.2.12  Mark in Wyoming   replied to  Split Personality @2.2.11    one month ago

well well , seems we can come to somewhat of an agreement on some points  i wont hold my breath on agreeing with others , nor should you .

Hold the criminal duely convicted for 10 years? i would say depends on the crime actually ,  as far as a trade with their country of origin , thats for the governments to decide , i doubt the receiving country would really want their problems back, but lets say they do , im thinking inglorious bastards solution so these individuals cant deny who and what they are , and try and blend back in with others ,  something they can neither remove , nor explain away . that forehead brand seems about right , right where it cant be hidden or explained away readily visible for all to see and identify , one can easily explain away a missing digit or limb .

The "Abbot" situation ,  false pretenses , well thats dependent on point of view now isnt it ,  IF the government of texas is doing it  the way i said , letting these people know up front , that there is no assistance or help for them there in texas from the state government , and show and offer a way to get someplace that is ON record for saying that they are sactuary places , and they can choose which place to go , i see nothing false or pretentious about that , now political stunt , yeah to a minor degree i can see that , but someone else is the one that did the virtue singaling and made an obligation their alligator mouths made , but their hummingbird asses seems to not be able to handle so well. if there is really any falseness , its on the parts of those on record of welcoming thesepeople and complaining when they get them  its one thing to say something , but i guess its another when it comes to fruitation and the bill is now due .

Abbot nor any other border state has any obligation to make sure someone is adequitely clothed for whatever destination they ultimately choose , if anything thats up to non governmental charity orgs at the least , and since these folks are coming out of federal custody  and being dumped , with the feds currently aware of what actions are being taken , maybe the feds should be opening up their surplus warehouses of such clothing, or should have   .... that falls under  no one is morally obligated to fill the promises someone else has made . i know im not .

 
 
 
Eat The Press Do Not Read It
Senior Guide
2.2.13  Eat The Press Do Not Read It  replied to  1stwarrior @2.2.2    one month ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Guide
2.2.14  seeder  1stwarrior  replied to  Split Personality @2.2.6    one month ago

SP - ya like to try to "rationalize" your "beliefs" with a lot of anecdotal stories/tales while taking the LAWs pertaining to immigration as a whim.

When you're bored, try looking at/reading/understanding the following - 

8 U.S. Code § 1321 - Prevention of unauthorized landing of aliens

8 U.S. Code § 1322 - Bringing in aliens subject to denial of admission on a health-related ground; persons liable; clearance papers; exceptions; “person” defined

8 U.S. Code § 1323 - Unlawful bringing of aliens into United States

8 U.S. Code § 1324 - Bringing in and harboring certain aliens

8 U.S. Code § 1324a - Unlawful employment of aliens

8 U.S. Code § 1324b - Unfair immigration-related employment practices

8 U.S. Code § 1324c - Penalties for document fraud

8 U.S. Code § 1324d - Civil penalties for failure to depart

8 U.S. Code § 1325 - Improper entry by alien

8 U.S. Code § 1326 - Reentry of removed aliens

8 U.S. Code § 1327 - Aiding or assisting certain aliens to enter

8 U.S. Code § 1328 - Importation of alien for immoral purpose

The above LAWS were/are dictated by the U.S. Constitution, have been written into LAWS and have passed the muster of SCOTUS numerous times.

The basic crux is that the Biden administration, and others as well, IS NOT administering the laws as written nor as intended.  The Illegal Alien community is well aware of the total lax of legal enforcement and are entering the U.S. ILLEGALLY , not in accordance with the above LAWS that were written and their use was/is intended by the U.S. Constitution which states ARTICLE 1, SECTION 8 - The Congress shall have Power . . .To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization ( ).

The "uniform Rule of Naturalization" IS NOT being adhered with and it is Congress and the rest of the Legislative Branch who are TOTALLY at fault.

You wanna come to the U.S. - FOLLOW THE DAMN LAWS - laws that are completely legal and appear to be completely ignored by this administration.

Wading across the Rio Grande IS NOT following the law.

Climbing fencing/walls IS NOT following the law.

Cutting holes in said barriers IS NOT following the law.

Asylum is a request, based on fear/acts by the individual's government, in any form, which would present danger to the individual.  It is NOT based on fear of neighborhood gangs or cartels.  It is based on government actions/activities.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
2.2.15  Split Personality  replied to  1stwarrior @2.2.14    one month ago
The aboveLAWSwere/are dictated by the U.S. Constitution, have been written intoLAWSand have passed the muster of SCOTUS numerous times.

Even if you unbold it and return it to a reasonable font, it still sounds like a lot of white man legal mumbo jumbo doesn't it?

The basic crux is that the Biden administration, and others as well, IS NOT administering the laws as written nor as intended.

and yet...things are basically normal except for the huge influx in 2019, 2021 and 2022

The "uniform Rule of Naturalization" IS NOT being adhered with and it is Congress and the rest of the Legislative Branch who are TOTALLY at fault.

OK I don't think anyone seeking asylum really has naturalization on their minds but that's just from meeting a few green card holders years ago in PA.

You wanna come to the U.S. - FOLLOW THE DAMN LAWS - laws that are completely legal 

Like all of the Europeans did?  Like all of the 500 broken Indian treaties were legal?

and appear to be completely ignored by this administration

More opinion? I understand.

Wading across the Rio Grande IS NOT following the law.

Climbing fencing/walls IS NOT following the law.

Cutting holes in said barriers IS NOT following the law.

Agreed which is in part why 1.72 million of "them" were deported or denied entry in FYR 2021, that is what CBP does. The recidivism seems to be a major unsolved problem..

Asylum is a request, based on fear/acts by the individual's government, in any form, which would present danger to the individual. 

Agreed, that is why only 230,000 were admitted into the asylum process in fiscal year 2021 out of 1,956,000

It is NOT based on fear of neighborhood gangs or cartels.  It is based on government actions/activities.

Isn't fear of the gangs and cartels a failure of their government or a lack of appropriate government action?

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Sophomore Principal
2.2.16  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Split Personality @2.2.15    one month ago

Isn’t mumbo jumbo a cultural misappropriation of the West African word often cited by etymologists as deriving from the Mandinka word "Maamajomboo"?

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
2.2.17  Split Personality  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @2.2.16    one month ago
Maamajomboo

Interesting read, I'll take door #2 .

Mumbo jumbo, or mumbo-jumbo, is confusing or meaningless language. The phrase is often used to express humorous criticism of middle-management , and specialty jargon , such as legalese , that non-specialists have … See more Mumbo jumbo (phrase) - Wikipedia

jrSmiley_82_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Sophomore Principal
2.2.18  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Split Personality @2.2.17    one month ago

According to the Concise Oxford English Dictionary :

Mumbo Jumbo is a noun and is the name of a grotesque idol said to have been worshipped by some tribes. In its figurative sense, Mumbo Jumbo is an object of senseless veneration or a meaningless ritual.

According to the 1803 Supplement to Encyclopædia Britannica Third Edition:

Mumbo Jumbo: A strange bugbear employed by the Pagan Mandingos for the purpose of keeping their women in subjection. Polygamy being allowed among these people, every man marries as many wives as he can conveniently maintain; and the consequence is, that family quarrels sometimes rise to such a height, that the husband's authority is not sufficient to restore peace among the ladies. On these occasions, the interposition of Mumbo Jumbo is called in; and it is always decisive. This strange minister of justice, who is either the husband himself, or some person instructed by him, disguised in a sort of masquerade habit, made of the bark of trees, and armed with the rod of public authority, announces his coming by loud and dismal screams in the woods near the town. He begins his pantomime at the approach of night; and as soon as it is dark, he enters the town, and proceeds to the Bentung or market-place, at which all the inhabitants immediately assemble.....the ceremony commences with songs and dances, which continue till midnight, about which time Mumbo fixes on the offender. This unfortunate victim being thereupon immediately seized, is stripped naked, tied to a post, and severely scourged with Mumbo's rod, amidst the shouts and derision of the whole assembly; and it is remarkable, that the rest of the women are the loudest in their exclamations on this occasion against their unhappy sister. Daylight puts an end to this indecent and unmanly revel....That the women are deluded seems evident; for Mr. Park assures us, that the dress of Mumbo is suffered to hang from a tree at the entrance of each town; which would hardly be the case if the women were not persuaded that it is the dress of some supernatural being.
 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
2.2.19  Split Personality  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @2.2.18    one month ago

I think we are on the wrong article for this weird segue into transgender, cross dressing behavior.

jrSmiley_72_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
3  Hal A. Lujah    one month ago

You mean walls don’t work??  Who knew?!

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
3.1  Ronin2  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @3    one month ago

Walls do work- when they are completed and the BP isn't so busy processing the number of illegals entering the country that they can't do their jobs and secure the border.

Brandon The Human Fuck Up Machine ending Trump policies that actually kept illegal immigrants out of the US is to blame.

Funny how the number of illegal immigrants crossing into the US surged when Brandon assumed office.

The number of undocumented immigrant crossings at the southwest border for fiscal year 2022 topped 2.76 million, breaking the previous annual record by more than 1 million, according to Customs and Border Protection data . For the 12 months ending Sept. 30, 2022, CBP stopped migrants more than 2,766,582 times, compared to 1.72 million times for fiscal 2021 , the previous yearly high . The 2022 numbers were driven in part by sharp increases in the number of Venezuelans, Cubans and Nicaraguans making the trek north, according to CBP.

Tell Brandon and the Democrats to stop ringing the damn dinner bell for illegal immigrants.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
3.1.1  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Ronin2 @3.1    one month ago

Walls do work- when they are completed

Considering that they cut a hole right through it I’d say that a completed wall is about at useful as no wall at all … just a lot more expensive.

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
3.1.2  Ronin2  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @3.1.1    one month ago

Way to cherry pick what I said. Left out the whole damn section.

and the BP isn't so busy processing the number of illegals entering the country that they can't do their jobs and secure the border.

In case you didn't read the article they have cameras placed monitoring the wall. The cameras caught everything. Which is great when you have enough BP to monitor the cameras and deploy personnel to apprehend those breaching. It takes time to cut through a wall, dig under it, or bypass it by using sewers; but with the BP being relegated to processing the overwhelming number of illegals entering this country- they aren't able to do their job of maintaining our border security.

Democrats want open borders and unrestricted immigration. Completely asinine and unsustainable. They care more about staying in power forever than the well being of this country.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
3.1.3  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Ronin2 @3.1.2    one month ago

So they built and expensive wall, and then outfitted it with enough expensive cameras and cables and electricity to have it thoroughly monitored by people who will be paid a salary to stare at a wall 24 hours a day, and it was still breached.  What a great plan!

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
3.1.4  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @3.1.1    one month ago

That was not a wall that was just a wire fence. All they needed was a decent pair of wire cutters.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Sophomore Principal
3.1.5  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @3.1.3    one month ago
then outfitted it with enough expensive cameras and cables and electricity to have it thoroughly monitored by people who will be paid a salary to stare at a wall 24 hours a day, and it was still breached.  What a great plan!

Exactly, how stupid to depend on visual sensors only.  They should use an array of acoustic, motion detection and infrared sensors to alert and then only confirm with the visual.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
3.1.6  Tessylo  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @3.1.3    one month ago

jrSmiley_10_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
3.1.7  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @3.1.4    one month ago

 

It’s true. The $15 billion wall , which Trump claimed over and over again that Mexico would pay for, “is no match for a $15 hand saw.”

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Sophomore Principal
3.1.8  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @3.1.7    one month ago
The $15 billion wall , which Trump claimed over and over again that Mexico would pay for, “is no match for a $15 hand saw.”

NPR says $11 billion.

What Trump section was cut with a $15 hand saw?

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
3.1.9  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @3.1.7    one month ago

Partially true, but that alleged $15.00 hand saw cut into a wire fence that was already in existence before Trump went into office and the wall being built.

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
3.1.10  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @3.1.4    4 weeks ago

A Happy New Year to all. Living 6 blocks from the border wall in Douglas, AZ makes for a interesting New Year's Eve. I can look out my front door and see fireworks on the Mexican side of the wall and throughout the night hear large numbers of semi and automatic gunfire going off. No way to know for sure whether it  is normal celebrations or drug cartels taking care of business as usual or a mixture of both. 

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
3.2  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @3    one month ago
You mean walls don’t work??  Who knew?!

Since the article refers to a FENCE and not a WALL, I'd say they work.  You do know the difference between a fence and a wall right?

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
3.2.1  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @3.2    one month ago

You do know the difference between a fence and a wall right?

Yes.  Fence:

320

Wall:

320

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
3.2.2  Split Personality  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @3.2.1    one month ago

They do call them bollard walls...

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
3.2.3  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @3.2.1    one month ago

Atta boy!!!!!!  Now which one is the article referring to?  

 
 
 
Eat The Press Do Not Read It
Senior Guide
3.3  Eat The Press Do Not Read It  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @3    one month ago

Some say, particularly, Putin, that the Berlin Wall worked when he was head of the KGB in East Berlin. Did it?

 
 
 
shona1
Junior Participates
5  shona1    one month ago

Morning...

That's not a fence... this is a fence...keeps all sorts of ferals out..

The longest fence in the world can refer to: The Dingo Fence of south-east Australia, 5,614 km (3,488 mi) finished in 1885. The Rabbit-proof fence of Western Australia, 3,253 km (2,021 mi), completed in 1907.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
5.1  Split Personality  replied to  shona1 @5    one month ago

Well, well, but, but,

you just wait until those wabbits and dingoes start using homemade ladders,

lol.

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
5.1.1  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Split Personality @5.1    one month ago

Forgot the roo's and wallaby's!

 
 
 
shona1
Junior Participates
5.1.2  shona1  replied to  Split Personality @5.1    one month ago

That's when the boundary riders shoot them....No getting over our fences...😁

 
 
 
shona1
Junior Participates
5.1.3  shona1  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @5.1.1    one month ago

They are allowed to jump over them..

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
5.1.4  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  shona1 @5.1.3    one month ago

How high is the fence?

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
5.1.5  Split Personality  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @5.1.4    one month ago

not big enough for this weally big Wabbit!

LoL

512

 
 
 
shona1
Junior Participates
5.1.6  shona1  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @5.1.4    one month ago

The dingo fence is about six foot high and the rabbit about 3..it's patrolled every day by riders in utes...some parts have to be dug out as the sand banks up to it etc...

Be a rough job in 45oC heat, by yourself hundreds of kms from anywhere or anything...

 
 
 
shona1
Junior Participates
5.1.7  shona1  replied to  Split Personality @5.1.5    one month ago

That looks like a wombat with ears..what a chunker...

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
5.1.8  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Split Personality @5.1.5    one month ago

You ought to see his carrots!

 
 
 
Eat The Press Do Not Read It
Senior Guide
5.2  Eat The Press Do Not Read It  replied to  shona1 @5    one month ago

The China Wall...that invaders circumvented and entered China?
The Wall of Lies that Republican MAGA preaches about but never build.
The Wall of Hate, Fear, and Subjugation that Republicans have advocated during every election campaign in modern times.

Border protection, in times of Chaos, in Central and South America, made be a tap bit for complicated than an arm-chair quarterback imagine who has no actual experience is not always helpful.

It is similar to those who advocate looser gun regulations as an answer to Mass Shootings. Or, fewer regulations for Vulture Capitalists who control elected officials with their obscene wealth.

When I was a child, we pulled a bad tooth with kite string. When I became an adult, I relived on professional dentists to solve the issue. 

Opinions are like A-holes, will all have one.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
6  Vic Eldred    one month ago

Would it be off topic to bring up the migrants who tried to break into the house of a woman who lived in south Texas?

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Guide
6.1  seeder  1stwarrior  replied to  Vic Eldred @6    one month ago

To me, it would be more pertinent than the Eisenhower slamming Thorpe comment.

But, that's just my opinion - and I am the author of the thread.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
6.1.1  Split Personality  replied to  1stwarrior @6.1    4 weeks ago

The "Thorpe comment" was taken from the link to show that Eisenhower was not your

friend, nor did he solve the problem.

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Guide
6.1.2  seeder  1stwarrior  replied to  Split Personality @6.1.1    4 weeks ago

And it was off topic - but, you already knew that.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
6.1.3  Split Personality  replied to  Split Personality @6.1.1    4 weeks ago

The "Thorpe comment" was taken from the link to show that Eisenhower was not your

friend, nor did he solve the problem.

He rounded up the Braceros because we knew where they worked (with our permission)

By recall, only 1 million were removed that way, millions self deported 

but what did he do at the border which is apparently what the article is about?

There were only 840 agents at the time, did he increase them? or the budget?

Nah, Eisenhower was not worried about immigration,

he was worried about veterans' unemployment rates.

The GI Bill of 44 produced 8 million veterans who received a free college education

out of the 16 million who served.

How many of those 8 million wanted to pick crops?

The GI Bill was a rare government success which avoided a recession/depression

but by the 70's it was exacerbating "the immigration problem".(again)

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
6.1.4  Split Personality  replied to  1stwarrior @6.1.2    4 weeks ago

You, the seeder, opened the door to Eisenhower.

So no, not off topic.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
6.1.5  Kavika   replied to  1stwarrior @6.1.2    4 weeks ago

If you are going to use Eisenhower as some type of example with his ''Operation Wetback'' you should show how he and his administration did much the same to Native Americans. The Tribal Termination act of 1953 where we lost 2.5 million acres of land and well over 100 tribes lost their status as Indians. It took decades for them to get their status back but not the land. Some tribes are still fighting for their tribal recognition status on this, or Public Law 23 280. Both were devastating to Indians and then there was the famous American Indian Relocation Act. Another law that did a huge amount of damage to NA's. 

I would think that you would find a better example to try to make your point.

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Guide
6.1.6  seeder  1stwarrior  replied to  Split Personality @6.1.4    4 weeks ago

But, that mentioning of Eisenhower did not open the door to each and every little tid-bit about his life that had nothing to do with with Operation Wetback.

Anecdotal tales with no substantiation don't help with any discussion.  Example - " He made the  varsity football team [29] [30]  and was a starter at  halfback  in 1912, when he tried to tackle the legendary  Jim Thorpe  of the  Carlisle Indians . [31"

The rest of the story?  " Future U.S. President Dwight Eisenhower injured his knee trying to tackle Thorpe during Carlisle's 27-6 victory over the Army team. T horpe scored 22 of those points for Carlisle .  ( Note - did not tackle - attempted too .)

"Here and there, there are some people who are supremely endowed," Eisenhower said in a 1961 speech. "My memory goes back to Jim Thorpe. He never practiced in his life, and he could do anything better than any other football player I ever saw.

You wanna bring in whether or not he wore briefs or jockies?  How 'bout brown or black shoes/boots?  How 'bout Mamie's hair-dresser's name and address?

When you don't have an argument, every little thing to that can "derail" the discussion works, eh?

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Guide
6.1.7  seeder  1stwarrior  replied to  Kavika @6.1.5    4 weeks ago

Well, since he was President at the time and he initiated the FIRST deportation action, wonder who in the hell I should have used?  I mean, after all, the discussion thread is about immigration - period.

Your issue with discussing the topic is?????

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
6.1.8  Kavika   replied to  1stwarrior @6.1.7    4 weeks ago
Well, since he was President at the time and he initiated the FIRST deportation action, wonder who in the hell I should have used?

Actually, he wasn't the first President to deport people. That would be Andrew Jackson, you should know that and also that Eisenhower's operation was a failure. 

Your issue with discussing the topic is?????

I have no issue with discussing the topic, just pointing out to you that your example isn't one that is the correct way to approach the situation. But you can defend it all day long, perhaps even crown Eisenhower as Chief Deporter. 

Waasa Inaabidaa

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
6.1.9  Split Personality  replied to  1stwarrior @6.1.6    4 weeks ago
When you don't have an argument, every little thing to that can "derail" the discussion works, eh?

When you have to pick the white devil who excoriated your own people over the poor

South American Indians coming here to escape 600% inflation and the third highest

murder rate internationally

you have already lost "the argument".

If you want an echo chamber, you are in the wrong place.

But, But Biden....

come on, man!

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Guide
6.1.10  seeder  1stwarrior  replied to  Kavika @6.1.8    4 weeks ago

Yes, we're all related - yes, we look in all directions - excellent Ojibwe history by Peacock.

Jackson didn't DEPORT anyone (the removal from a country of an alien whose presence is unlawful or prejudicial), he transferred people to the NEW Indian Country, property of the U.S.government, with the promise of no hassles "as long as the grass grows, the sun shines, the winds are to our backs". 

Native Americans were/are not aliens - were/are not unlawfully in the U.S. - their presence is/was not prejudicial to the U.S. gvnmt -the "Whites" just wanted all of their lands/properties/monies - period.

Your example also shows that we see the first Democratic "whitening" of the U.S. - get rid of the original inhabitants, who were Red/Black, and let the "Whites" have the lands to IMPROVE them as the Indians just let them lay fallow and we also see how well/strong the U.S. gvnmt "honors their words/treaties".

Apples and oranges.

In 1951 President Truman’s Commission on Migratory Labor released a report blaming low wages in the Southwest and social ills on illegal immigration: “The magnitude … has reached entirely new levels in the past 7 years.… In its newly achieved proportions, it is virtually an invasion,” the report said.

After touring Southern California in August 1953 to assess the impact of illegal immigration, President Dwight D. Eisenhower’s Attorney General, Herbert Brownell, Jr., pushed Congress to enact sanctions against employers of undocumented workers and to confiscate the vehicles that were used to bring them to the United States.  (Not Eisenhower)

On June 9, 1954, INS Commissioner General Joseph Swing announced the commencement of “Operation Wetback.”The first phase of the operation began in California and Arizona (again, not Eisenhower)

The INS operation won at least tacit support from several key groups; the Mexican government, labor groups, and even Mexican-American civil rights groups acknowledged the labor problem.  Roughly 1.2M ILLEGAL ALIENS (folks with NO DOCUMENTATION) were deported.

Note - ILLEGAL ALIENS were deported.  Others with legal documentation left of their own accord.

Apples and oranges.

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Guide
6.1.11  seeder  1stwarrior  replied to  Split Personality @6.1.9    4 weeks ago

You actually can't see what you're trying to do - do you?

"South American Indians"  BS - some, yes, most NOT.

"escape 600 % inflation and 3rd highest murder rate internationally"?????? - BS - that be Peru and even you might recognize that Peru is not the home of non-dictator leadership.

If you have nothing to offer the U.S., don't come dragging your garbage to us expecting us to "fix it - fix it - fix it"

It's YOUR country - "fix it - fix it - fix it".

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
6.1.12  Split Personality  replied to  1stwarrior @6.1.10    4 weeks ago

So your reasoning is that Eisenhower wasn't responsible for what a Cabinet Member did?

So by that insane reasoning I guess Biden isn't responsible for Mayorkas. /s

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
6.1.13  Split Personality  replied to  1stwarrior @6.1.11    4 weeks ago
You actually can't see what you're trying to do - do you?

I'm reacting to your over reactions/

"South American Indians"  BS - some, yes, most NOT.

Simple enough, prove it.

"escape 600 % inflation and 3rd highest murder rate internationally"?????? - BS - that be Peru and even you might recognize that Peru is not the home of non-dictator leadership.

Ok, my bad, I found more up to date information that says the current inflation rate in Venezuela is down to 155.80%

Inflation Rate in Venezuela decreased to 155.80 percent in October from 157.40 percent in September of 2022. Inflation Rate in Venezuela averaged 3693.97 percent from 1973 until 2022, reaching an all time high of 344509.50 percent in February of 2019 and a record low of 3.22 percent in February of 1973.

Is it much of  a coincidence that their all time high matched the beginning of the terrible year of 2019?

Meanwhile they are still third to 6th highest murder rate in the world depending on the source.

Peru?  Peru averaged 2% inflation for decades, currently 8.46%,  somewhere around 66th on the murder rate list.

So no, Peru, not at all.  Do better research.

If you have nothing to offer the U.S., don't come dragging your garbage to us expecting us to "fix it - fix it - fix it"

I guess somehow I expected a better response than "don't come dragging your garbage".  It really smacks of racism and class bias.

I hear Canada needs 5 Million a year.

It's YOUR country - "fix it - fix it - fix it".

yeah, well I guess you got yours and it's your playground, right?

Childish.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
6.1.14  Kavika   replied to  1stwarrior @6.1.10    4 weeks ago

Jackson didn't DEPORT anyone ( the removal from a country of an alien whose presence is unlawful or prejudicial ), he transferred people to the NEW Indian Country, property of the U.S.government, with the promise of no hassles "as long as the grass grows, the sun shines, the winds are to our backs". 

Native Americans were/are not aliens - were/are not unlawfully in the U.S. - their presence is/was not prejudicial to the U.S. gvnmt -the "Whites" just wanted all of their lands/properties/monies - period.

Yet, Indians were removed by force even with treaties in place and were not considered citizens of our own country and banished to the Oklahoma Territory. Then there was the Oklahoma Indian land giveaway and the discovery of oil once again take the land.

You can bend it any way you want it was still forced from our land (deported) and the BS statement that we were transferred is fucking hilarious.  

Your example also shows that we see the first Democratic "whitening" of the U.S. - get rid of the original inhabitants, who were Red/Black, and let the "Whites" have the lands to IMPROVE them as the Indians just let them lay fallow and we also see how well/strong the U.S. gvnmt "honors their words/treaties". Apples and oranges.

Democratic ''whitening'' of the US. LOL, that started a couple of hundreds of years before there was a Democratic or Republican party. Stop with the nonsense.

The INS operation won at least tacit support from several key groups; the Mexican government, labor groups, and even Mexican-American civil rights groups acknowledged the labor problem.  Roughly 1.2 M ILLEGAL ALIENS (folks with NO DOCUMENTATION) were deported. Note - ILLEGAL ALIENS were deported.  Others with legal documentation left of their own accord.

Actually, you should actually investigate ''why'' the ''key group'' acknowledged the labor problem. 

There is a good link that spells it all out for you, and yes, legal Mexican American citizens were deported as were other legal residents. 

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Guide
6.1.15  seeder  1stwarrior  replied to  Split Personality @6.1.12    4 weeks ago

Just like Obama wasn't responsible for Jey or for Lerner and etc..

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Guide
6.1.16  seeder  1stwarrior  replied to  Split Personality @6.1.13    4 weeks ago

Oh, my bad - my wife is from Venezuela and gave me the info on Peru - said she didn't know I needed per SA/CA.

Venezuela - 46.5 % per 100K, Venezuela 220%.

And you would really know 'bout "racism and class bias", right?

Let's do some picking and choosing, OK.  I'll say a word and you contramand it as you are so prone to do.  Elections - who votes???  Who wins???  Who takes office???  What say do the constituents have in the elections???  Piss poor economy - piss poor medical - piss poor educational systems - piss poor infrastructures and maintenance -  etc. - who set those up and who pays for them???  Oh yeah, the people who voted the "leaders" into office - the very same people who are allowing their "leaders" to ruin their lives.

Quite simply, there would be a strong inclination that the behaviour in their "home country" would be the same to any other country they migrated to.

That's racist and class bias???

"Simple enough - prove it"?????  Damn Karnak, I thought you knew everything.

The data sheets that the CBP fill out contain information on demographics - you know - accompanied minors, FMUA, single adults and UC/single minors. 

They don't have a "block" labeled "Native American" (per my CBP neighbors), so how ya gonna figure that one out, eh?  My proof - where's yours?

C'mon - gimme some more "updating" - waiting.

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Guide
6.1.17  seeder  1stwarrior  replied to  Kavika @6.1.14    4 weeks ago

Others with legal documentation left of their own accord - already said.

Native Americans were/are not aliens - were/are not unlawfully in the U.S. - their presence is/was not prejudicial to the U.S. gvnmt -the "Whites" just wanted all of their lands/properties/monies - period.

Your example also shows that we see the first Democratic "whitening" of the U.S. - get rid of the original inhabitants, who were Red/Black, and let the "Whites" have the lands to IMPROVE them as the Indians just let them lay fallow and we also see how well/strong the U.S. gvnmt "honors their words/treaties". - already said it.

Use whatever word you feel comfortable - Transfer means "to convey from one person, place, or situation to another", regardless of how the transfer was accomplished.

Might think you should read that "History" link that you attached.  In a lot more words, it says exactly what I've said 'bout those "deported" - most were ILLEGAL ALIENS/UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS and some were legal American citizens who, on their own initiative, voluntarily "deported" themselves.

If ya'll don't wanna discuss the intent of the Immigration rules/regulations/laws - don't.  If you believe in wide open borders with no vetting - have at it.

I firmly believe in the rules/regulations/laws dealing with immigration and nothing in those rules/regulations/laws sez "Hey, ya'll come".

 
 
 
GregTx
Junior Participates
6.1.18  GregTx  replied to  1stwarrior @6.1.16    4 weeks ago

I just don't understand how anyone can look at those numbers and still claim that it's the same as it's ever been.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
6.1.19  Kavika   replied to  1stwarrior @6.1.17    4 weeks ago

Ya know, 1st you can spin it any way you want but the bottom line is there is no difference between the two. 

If ya'll don't wanna discuss the intent of the Immigration rules/regulations/laws - don't.  If you believe in wide open borders with no vetting - have at it.

Don't make assumptions about me it makes you look like an ass.

With that, I'll leave it to you to whine and bitch about immigration and our laws regarding it. 

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
6.1.20  Split Personality  replied to  GregTx @6.1.18    4 weeks ago

Of course you are correct Greg.

It depends on the context and which numbers you are looking at.

The population of South America and Central America has doubled from 91 million to 183 million since our first high point of 1.6 million in 1982.

Since then the CBP has grown over 600%

and encounters at the border are only 20% higher than 1982.

1$ in 1982 would be worth $3.08 today = 208% increase.

jrSmiley_82_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
7  CB     4 weeks ago
The method is one of several novel techniques which migrants are using to cross into the US illegally.

Success is an attractant. What did we think that the world's superpower would not have the world's people beating a path to its door. There is an analogy I like to use: Celebrities, especially those top athletes in every sport, are inundated by fans and propositions by some of the best men, women, girls, and boys on the planet-all looking for acceptance to be the 'one' chosen. Sex is on the table. These "availables" even when spurned are known and capable of continuing their pursuits by oozing through every opening and creating new opening where none exist, and stalking their 'prey' until they are utterly rejected. . . or lose personal interest. . . and go after another celebrity, or just give up and go home., or accident befall them or finally death.

The United States is faced with being that 'shining light on a hill' that is signaling to the throngs in hostile, backwards thinking lands, 'come.' It is the downside to success' upside.

So how can we fix this? How does this kind of thing get fixed in the past? Ended in the life of a celebrity. Well, the celebrity 'baller' or personality gets engaged or married. That is, they are compelled to take themselves off the 'market,' as it is. Choosing this method, because it sends out pulsating counter signals of "Unavailability."

The United States needs to send out such "Unavailable" signals. Albeit for a nation that is not so simple. Still it can be achieved. How?

1. Accept Dreamers who are already here. Legitimize them. Then, tell share their narrative around the world! People will be happy for them while realizing (and accepting) that much open space before has become progressively filled in .

2. Take in proper asylum seekers from other countries without delay. Again, it will trigger other seekers to accept that twice (see 1 above) the United States has become a more "crowded" country. We become less of a target for entry. (Some seekers will look for other opportunities in other countries.)  2a. Do not let in illegals or when they are found cast them out as lawbreakers consistently.

3.  Help other nation's get their collective acts and systems together and advertise their availability to the world evenhandedly.

4.  Do these actions above, something similar, or be prepared to continue being dipped in 'attractant' the world over. Because success is its own reward.

These steps will diminish and shrink proper seekers who can take 'no'  and unavailability for an answer. They will make conscious decisions to seek help somewhere else. Of course, the criminal 'element' will be repudiated on sight/contact.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
7.1  CB   replied to  CB @7    4 weeks ago

Incidentally, that image for the article shows a large 'cavity' hole cut in the border fence of El Paso, Texas. An illustration that the fence has always been a failure from the perspective of those who know how to breach it - if people choose not to respect it as a boundary! It could have been an even bigger undermining of the whole border fence structure: Dynamite!

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
7.1.1  Texan1211  replied to  CB @7.1    4 weeks ago

Seems strange to take joy in illegal aliens being able to come here when and how they choose no matter what our laws say.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
7.1.2  CB   replied to  Texan1211 @7.1.1    4 weeks ago

What joy are you taking in these 'illegals' and their choices to be here as they please? Care to explain yourself? (It's two questions. It will not bother me if you fail to answer either of them. I'm always good. I have no choice, yes?)

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
7.1.3  Texan1211  replied to  CB @7.1.2    4 weeks ago
What joy are you taking in these 'illegals' and their choices to be here as they please?

None whatsoever. If you actually thought I did, then we have a big problem with the way you interpret my comments.

Care to explain yourself?

Okay, what do you need explained specifically now?

(It's two questions. It will not bother me if you fail to answer either of them.

two. Yes. Very good. Progress, not perfection.

Whether you are bothered or not is strictly your personal choice.

I'm always good. I have no choice, yes?)

There are almost in every single instance a choice to be made. Perhaps victims have no choices.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Sophomore Principal
7.1.4  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  CB @7.1.2    4 weeks ago

I’m surprised that you ask questions of others since you rarely answer those asked of you.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
7.1.5  CB   replied to  Texan1211 @7.1.3    4 weeks ago

Yeah. That. Okay, joy-less one. Less about me or you and. . . how about that 'gaping huge hole in the 'wall' in El Paso?

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
7.1.6  CB   replied to  Drinker of the Wry @7.1.4    4 weeks ago

You're surprised? You rarely let us into your feelings. Thus, we are like a desert starving for something to understand. What does it feel like for you to be in this condition?

If you choose not to answer the above. How about that gaping hole in the border 'wall' - should the U.S. government patch it or 'tear down this wall'?

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
7.1.7  Texan1211  replied to  CB @7.1.5    4 weeks ago
how about that 'gaping huge hole in the 'wall' in El Paso?

How about it?

Personally, I would have no problem with sealing the hole up and electrifying the fence or wall.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
7.1.8  Texan1211  replied to  CB @7.1.5    4 weeks ago

Again, you demanded an explanation, but failed to say WHAT exactly you wanted me to explain.

Then I asked you for an explanation, and you deflected.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
7.1.9  CB   replied to  Texan1211 @7.1.7    4 weeks ago

How about it? It is the topic. I am happy to discuss it with you! 

Electrifying the fence: Low-voltage or high voltage fencing. WANTED: PAID PROFESSIONAL ELECTRICIAN for disconnection services.

That type of thing corresponds to cutting a "hunking" hole in the standing fence. It won't achieve much in border secure shutdown.

There are options to consider at 7 above!

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
7.1.10  CB   replied to  Texan1211 @7.1.8    4 weeks ago

Buck up, some conservative. Move on. Don't just stand/sit around 'pouting.' That is 'old news' and I have forgotten it already!

We're (not young) men and our time is. . . less. . .  as the crow flies we have to get through a great deal this month. Let's get going!

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
7.1.11  Texan1211  replied to  CB @7.1.9    4 weeks ago
Electrifying the fence: Low-voltage or high voltage fencing. WANTED: PAID PROFESSIONAL ELECTRICIAN for disconnection services.

Do you support an electric fence or not? Your post doesn't say.

That type of thing corresponds to cutting a "hunking" hole in the standing fence. It won't achieve much in border secure shutdown.

Would achieve much more than doing what our fearless leader is doing now. AT least it would be a start.

There are options to consider at 7 above!

Looked at them and can agree that one would be more effective than what we are doing now. 

2A is the one. The rest sound all nice and swell, but really will accomplish nothing much toward border security.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
7.1.12  Texan1211  replied to  CB @7.1.10    4 weeks ago
Buck up, some conservative. Move on. Don't just stand/sit around 'pouting.' That is 'old news' and I have forgotten it already!

It was an hour ago.

Forgotten very conveniently, I'm sure.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
7.1.13  CB   replied to  Texan1211 @7.1.11    4 weeks ago

I don't have an opinion about an electric fence (low voltage/high voltage), and I write that with the understanding that Donald Trump revealed the wall is 'wired' in a press availability at the border.

President Donald Trump Tours Border Wall: ‘Now We Have A World Class Security System' | NBC News

Now can a charge be guided down into the wiring and metal, I don't know. These are complex problems and cheap easy 'judgements' without all available data is not wise, useful, or credible. I don't like the idea of shocking people sufficient enough to cause hospitalization, 'frying' of skin and internal organs, or death. Other than this, for the stubborn some mild shock could be done. Degrees matter in electrification of fences. For example: is the fence 'humming' from the energy surging through it.

(Hope that helps.)

Thank you for commenting on 7. I sincerely appreciate it.

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Professor Guide
8  Thrawn 31    4 weeks ago

And yet no real attempt at immigration reform by conservatives, and barely any by dems. You would almost think both parties like this being an election issue. 

 
 

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