Biden admin quietly admits canceling Keystone XL Pipeline cost thousands of jobs, billions of dollars | Fox News

  

Category:  News & Politics

Via:  texan1211  •  3 weeks ago  •  147 comments

By:   Thomas Catenacci (Fox News)

Biden admin quietly admits canceling Keystone XL Pipeline cost thousands of jobs, billions of dollars | Fox News
The Department of Energy issued a congressionally mandated report late last month highlighting the positive economic benefits the Keystone XL project would have had.

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T



The Biden administration published a congressionally mandated report highlighting the positive economic benefits the Keystone XL Pipeline would have had if President Biden didn't revoke its federal permits.

The report, which the Department of Energy (DOE) completed in late December without any public announcement, says the Keystone XL project would have created between 16,149 and 59,000 jobs and would have had a positive economic impact of between $3.4-9.6 billion, citing various studies. A previous report from the federal government published in 2014 determined 3,900 direct jobs and 21,050 total jobs would be created during construction which was expected to take two years.

But immediately after taking office in January 2021, Biden canceled the pipeline's permits, effectively shutting the project down.

"The Biden administration finally owned up to what we have known all along — killing the Keystone XL Pipeline cost good-paying jobs, hurt Montana's economy and was the first step in the Biden administration's war on oil and gas production in the United States," Sen. Steve Daines. R-Mont., said Thursday in a statement. "Unfortunately, the administration continues to pursue energy production anywhere but the United States."

"These policies may appeal to the woke left but hurt Montana's working families," he continued. "I'll keep fighting back against Biden's anti-energy agenda and supporting Montana energy projects and jobs."

The DOE was forced to issue the report after Daines and Sen. Jim Risch, R-Idaho, successfully inserted a bill mandating the report into the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act Biden signed into law in November 2021. The agency was required to publish the report within 90 days of the bill's passage but ultimately waited more than a year before releasing it.

In a statement Thursday, the DOE noted that the project would have had minimal permanent job impacts, but didn't mention the thousands of jobs that were estimated during the construction of the pipeline.

"The U.S. Department of Energy released a report evaluating existing analysis on economic and job effects of the XL portion of Keystone pipeline," the DOE told Fox News Digital. "It concluded there were limited job impacts, with approximately 50 permanent jobs estimated to have been created were the pipeline operational."

Biden's decision to cancel the pipeline has received widespread criticism from Republican lawmakers and energy industry representatives who have argued it would have helped keep gas prices down and ensure energy security.

Keystone XL had been slated to be completed early this year and transport an additional 830,000 barrels of crude oil from Canada to the U.S. through an existing pipeline network, according to its operator, TC Energy.

The project labor agreement that TC Energy signed in August 2020 with four labor unions promised the pipeline would create 42,000 American jobs and provide $2 billion in total wages.

TC Energy ultimately gave up on the project in June 2021 as a result of Biden's decision. Last year, a federal judge tossed a legal challenge from nearly two dozen states asking the court to reinstate the pipeline's permits.

"The Department of Energy finally admitted to the worst-kept secret about the Keystone Pipeline: President Biden's decision to cancel the Keystone XL Pipeline sacrificed thousands of American jobs," Risch said Thursday.

The Keystone XL Pipeline would have created up to 59,000 jobs and had a positive economic impact of up to $9.6 billion, according to the Department of Energy. (Jason Franson/Bloomberg via Getty Images)

"To make matters worse, his decision moved the U.S. further away from energy independence and lower gas prices at a time when inflation and gas prices are drastically impacting Americans' pocketbooks," he added.

"The president must turn to American-made energy and jobs rather than dictators and despots to fix the energy crisis he created on his first day in office."

The White House didn't immediately respond to a request for comment.

Thomas Catenacci is a politics writer for Fox News Digital.


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Texan1211
Professor Principal
1  seeder  Texan1211    3 weeks ago
"The Biden administration finally owned up to what we have known all along — killing the Keystone XL Pipeline cost good-paying jobs, hurt Montana's economy and was the first step in the Biden administration's war on oil and gas production in the United States," Sen. Steve Daines. R-Mont., said Thursday in a statement.

Gee, I wonder if anyone remembers hearing that before?

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
1.1  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Texan1211 @1    3 weeks ago

As a Canadian, I've never forgotten it.  

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.1.1  Tessylo  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @1.1    3 weeks ago

How does this effect you Buzz?  It doesn't

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Sophomore Guide
1.1.2  Right Down the Center  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @1.1    3 weeks ago

256

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Sophomore Guide
1.1.3  Right Down the Center  replied to  Tessylo @1.1.1    3 weeks ago

Why do you ask a question you obviously don't want an answer to?

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.2  Tessylo  replied to  Texan1211 @1    3 weeks ago

Somone must have been lining Daines pockets (among other republicans of course, they're such welfare whores) for this to go through, President Biden said NO.

jrSmiley_10_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.2.1  seeder  Texan1211  replied to  Tessylo @1.2    3 weeks ago
Somone must have been lining Daines pockets (among other republicans of course, they're such welfare whores) for this to go through, President Biden said NO.

Silly worthless comment.

 
 
 
arkpdx
Professor Participates
1.2.2  arkpdx  replied to  Texan1211 @1.2.1    3 weeks ago

Remember the source 

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.3  Tessylo  replied to  Texan1211 @1    3 weeks ago

Gas prices are lower than they have been in some time

What a bogus'article'

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
1.3.1  Sparty On  replied to  Tessylo @1.3    3 weeks ago

Yawn, another ignorant comment.    Reality is a bitch.    Gas and the price of nearly everything is significant higher than when bozo took office.

And bozo owns it ..... bigly! 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.3.2  seeder  Texan1211  replied to  Tessylo @1.3    3 weeks ago
Gas prices are lower than they have been in some time

No thanks to Joe Biden or Democrats. I do believe they are still higher than when Joe took office.

I don't care what your opinion of an article you didn't bother to read is.

 
 
 
arkpdx
Professor Participates
1.3.3  arkpdx  replied to  Tessylo @1.3    3 weeks ago
Gas prices are lower than they have been in some time 

Gas prices when Biden took over averaged $2.17 per gallon. 

Today it is 3.70 per gallon and expected to go up. 

 
 
 
 
cjcold
Professor Quiet
1.3.4  cjcold  replied to  arkpdx @1.3.3    3 weeks ago

Pretty sure that global oil prices have very little to do with Biden policies.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Sophomore Principal
1.3.5  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  cjcold @1.3.4    3 weeks ago

And yet when the price of gas comes down a little, he claims credit.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
1.3.6  Split Personality  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @1.3.5    3 weeks ago

Well he did release reserve oils at a lower than market price which affected the gas

prices temporarily, Democrats shrug, Republicans react in outrage.

Nothing new here.

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
1.3.7  Ronin2  replied to  Tessylo @1.3    3 weeks ago

Say that when Brandon the Human Fuck Up Machine has to replace every last barrel of oil he has stolen from the US Strategic Oil Reserve. Trump bought at a very low price; it is going to cost the US taxpayer a hell of a lot; not to mention the increase in fuel prices; to replace replace it.

 
 
 
arkpdx
Professor Participates
1.3.8  arkpdx  replied to  cjcold @1.3.4    3 weeks ago

So according to you, when gas prices went up, it had nothing to do with any of his policies but when they go down he gets the credit. I guess that means you will give Trump kudos for when prices were even lower then they are under Biden 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2  seeder  Texan1211    3 weeks ago
The project labor agreement that TC Energy signed in August 2020 with four labor unions promised the pipeline would create 42,000 American jobs and provide $2 billion in total wages.

Those union members should be questioning their own leadership for continuing to support the man and the party which cost them some good-paying jobs.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
2.1  Ozzwald  replied to  Texan1211 @2    3 weeks ago
The project labor agreement that TC Energy signed in August 2020 with four labor unions promised the pipeline would create 42,000 American jobs and provide $2 billion in total wages

Fact-check: Is Biden 'destroying 11,000 jobs' by revoking Keystone pipeline?

TC Energy Corp., the Canadian company that owns the Keystone XL pipeline with the Alberta government, has said more than 1,000 people are out of work because of Biden’s executive order. The 11,000 and $2 billion figures cited in the Facebook post are estimates published by the company, but most of the jobs would be temporary .

The cancellation of the Keystone XL pipeline by Joe Biden “killed hundreds of jobs, sent gas prices way up.”

  • President Joe Biden canceling the permit for the Keystone XL pipeline did lead to hundreds of job losses, but most of those jobs were temporary .
  • The pipeline would have created only 35 long-term jobs .
  • There is no relationship between Biden’s decision and rising gas prices, as the pipeline wouldn’t have been completed yet.
  • Even if the pipeline were completed and operational, it would have a negligible impact on the global oil market.
 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.1  seeder  Texan1211  replied to  Ozzwald @2.1    3 weeks ago

are you attempting to dispute the Biden Admin own report?

lol.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
2.1.2  Split Personality  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.1    3 weeks ago

Your seed isn't the actual DOE report, it's the Fox News interpretation of the report.

Were the jobs permanent, No. Two years at best.

Union workers are quite used to having projects cancelled, they move on to the next job.

Would the project in any way affect gas prices in the USA or anywhere for that matter, No.

Would it affect inflation, No.

It would only make TC Energy more profitable and their backers the government of Alberta Canada.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.3  seeder  Texan1211  replied to  Split Personality @2.1.2    3 weeks ago

just gotta love it when a Democratic Admin puts out a report and leftist sycophants attempt to dispute it.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Sophomore Principal
2.1.4  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Split Personality @2.1.2    3 weeks ago
It would only make TC Energy more profitable and their backers the government of Alberta Canada.

Exactly, and by shutting down the pipeline construction, those oil sands remain in the ground, were they belong.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
2.1.5  Split Personality  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.3    3 weeks ago

The completed section of Phase 3A duplicated and paralleled the existing Keystone line from Nederland TX to Cushing OK, a major storge farm for crude oil and a major hub for several pipelines.  Phase 3B provided a 47 mile link to Houston TX.

Those were finished during the Trump Administration.

While not running at capacity this section of pipe allows the pipeline operators to keep tar sands separate from crude now.

These sections were desirable but not needed for anything other than convenience.

For example, the extra oil flowing through the pipes causes a decline in rail car traffic necessary to transport crude oils through 3A, while 3B killed several trucking companies that previously moved crude between Nederland and Houston.

I'm sure they were all Trump sycophants up to that point.

I am sure non leftist sycophants everywhere celebrated their new found wealth when that section of pipe cut through East Texas making everyone rich. /s

The impact from the construction equally blessed and inconvenienced residents of Tyler and Winona for three months.  I remember the news people on KTBS interviewing people that thought the pipeline would reduce our need of foreign oil.

That is a misconception, doubly so, since the tar sand oil is Canadian owned by a Candian conglomerate including the government of Alberta Canada and intended for foreign markets, not American.

A US Federal Judge stopped the "second leg" because the Trump Executive order gave the US Army Corps of Engineers carte blanch to waive environmental studies.

When the Trump Administration cancelled $3 billion in contracts for 200,000 ventilators from Hamilton Medical and Vyaire Medical where was the indignation that employees might lose their jobs or that those companies might have been hurt by the no bid emergency contracts they accepted during the COVID panic.

With nearly 120,000 in "stock" the Administration determined there was no longer a need. .. and began cancelling the remaining open contracts. Were there stories condemning Trump for this attack on American jobs?

HHS canceling ventilator contracts, says stockpile is full | PBS NewsHour

Shit happens under every Administration, some people just blow shit all out of proportion for their ideological team. 

Twice before cancelled in 2013 and 2015, Trump revived the KXL pipeline in 2017 for political reasons when there was no need for that kind of capacity. Now a third Administration comes along and says " no need " and cancels it again.

People that were never hired, haven't lost anything.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.6  seeder  Texan1211  replied to  Split Personality @2.1.5    3 weeks ago

just love it when sycophants dispute the Presidents Admin. own report!

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.1.7  Tessylo  replied to  Split Personality @2.1.5    3 weeks ago

Yet certain folks act like the keystone pipeline would have supplied endless jobs and oil for the US (which is how #45 gave us energy independence which he never did, would, or could).

Had negligible benefits for the US if any

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
2.1.8  Split Personality  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.6    3 weeks ago

Maybe instead of whining about what could have been, we could talk about the existing Keystone pipeline which just recently came back on line after losing over 600,000 gallons of crude tar sands oil around December 7th. 

A damaged section of the Keystone Pipeline was reopened Thursday after weeks of repairs and clean up following a leak of 600,000 gallons of crude oil into a Kansas creek, officials said.

For the first time since Dec. 7 the 2,687 mile conduit is fully operational, according to TC Energy, the pipeline's Canadian operator.

After completing repairs on the pipeline's Cushing extension, a controlled restart was executed Thursday, "safely returning the Keystone Pipeline to service," TC Energy said in a statement released Thursday afternoon.

U.S. Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration (PHMSA) approved TC Energy's restart plan on Dec. 23, the company said.

...

The Kansas oil leak is the biggest in the United States in more than a decade and the largest in the 12-year history of the Keystone Pipeline.

...

Prior said crews remain at the site cleaning up the area affected by the spill. As of Thursday, crews had recovered 7,690 barrels of oil, or nearly 323,000 gallons, from Mill Creek and rescued wildlife, including a beaver affected by the spill, according to TC Energy.

The leak was the latest in a series of accidents on the pipeline. A federal report released last year showed the conduit recorded 22 accidents between 2010 and 2020 and found the severity of spills has "worsened" in recent years. The report conducted by the U.S. Government Accountability Office showed the previous incidents leaked a total of 11,975 barrels of crude oil, or a little over 500,000 gallons.

The report found that four of the biggest Keystone Pipeline oil spills between 2010 and 2020 were caused by issues related to the original design, manufacturing of the pipe or construction of the pipeline.

Keystone Pipeline back up to speed after 600,000 gallon leak - ABC News (go.com)

Funny how little coverage this received while right wing media like JustTheNews and Fox and NewsMax keep rebroadcasting the seeded story as if it was fact and not just an opinion piece on a government report no one has seen fit to publish yet.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.9  seeder  Texan1211  replied to  Split Personality @2.1.8    3 weeks ago

only ones whining are Biden fan boys and girls trying to pretend his Admin. didn't say what they said.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
2.1.10  Ozzwald  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.9    3 weeks ago
only ones whining are Biden fan boys and girls trying to pretend his Admin. didn't say what they said.

Then provide a link to the official report to prove what they said.  All you can do is FoxNews fox'splaining to everyone.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.11  seeder  Texan1211  replied to  Ozzwald @2.1.10    3 weeks ago
Then provide a link to the official report to prove what they said.  All you can do is FoxNews fox'splaining to everyone.

I was not able to find it. Perhaps you can?

Other news outlets have reported the same things. 

No one but a few NT sycophants have even disputed that the report was made in accordance to law ( except for being late) but you go right ahead. 

Prove it wrong!

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.1.12  Tessylo  replied to  Ozzwald @2.1    3 weeks ago

ALL TEMPORARY WITH MAYBE 50 PERMANENT JOBS

IT'S STUPID TO SAY IT'S BIDEN'S ADMIN. MAKING THESE CLAIMS, IT'S JUST ANOTHER CORRUPT REPUB, DAINES

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.1.13  Tessylo  replied to  Tessylo @2.1.12    3 weeks ago

AND LIKE SP SAID, FAUX 'NEWS'S' INTERPRETATION OF THE REPORT

jrSmiley_10_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
2.1.14  Sparty On  replied to  Tessylo @2.1.13    3 weeks ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.1.15  Tessylo  replied to  Split Personality @2.1.2    3 weeks ago

Note Tex has not disputed any of our truths?  Just keeps repeating the nonsense that this came from the Biden admin.  lol

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.1.16  Tessylo  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.6    3 weeks ago

Why do you keep spamming that same comment?

It's obvious you have nothing to dispute the truth from SP, Ozz and others?

Ya got nothing but PP&D plus mis/disinformation

That's no way to go through life son

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.1.17  Tessylo  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.11    3 weeks ago

That's some piss poor research there dude.  Why not post the truth rather than Faux 'news's' version of it?

Absolutely no reason why you couldn't have found the actual truthful report rather than your faux version,

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.1.18  Tessylo  replied to  Tessylo @2.1.13    3 weeks ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
magicschoolbusdropout
Sophomore Principal
2.1.19  magicschoolbusdropout  replied to  Tessylo @2.1.18    3 weeks ago
removed for context
 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.20  seeder  Texan1211  replied to  Tessylo @2.1.17    3 weeks ago
That's some piss poor research there dude.  Why not post the truth rather than Faux 'news's' version of it? Absolutely no reason why you couldn't have found the actual truthful report rather than your faux version,

Coming from one who hasn't even read the article,  meh..............................lol.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.21  seeder  Texan1211  replied to  Tessylo @2.1.13    3 weeks ago

Please stop replying to yourself.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.22  seeder  Texan1211  replied to  Tessylo @2.1.17    3 weeks ago
 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.23  seeder  Texan1211  replied to  Ozzwald @2.1.10    3 weeks ago
Then provide a link to the official report to prove what they said. 

Dispute away!

12.23.22-KXL-Pipeline-Job-Loss-and-Impacts-on-Consumer-Energy-Costs-001245.pdf (senate.gov)

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.24  seeder  Texan1211  replied to  Split Personality @2.1.2    3 weeks ago
 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
2.1.25  Split Personality  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.24    3 weeks ago

Awesome, thanks.

I take it by your recalcitrance that you did not read the report or the summary.

 The 2010 Perryman Group  "study" paid for by TC Energy to convince the US

Government was grossly overly optimistic in its estimates of job creation and included

associated jobs in India, Russia and Canada, not in the USA.

The remaining analysis in this report reviews the major studies evaluating the KXL pipeline, and their major findings. Key relevant points from the review of prior studies show:

1. Estimates indicate approximately 50 permanent jobs once the pipeline would be operational. Studies found there would be between 16,149 to 59,46815 temporary jobs supported annually during the two-year construction period of the KXL pipeline, but the high-end figure overstates jobs, coming from a study that faced significant criticism for including in its analysis project inputs from India, Russia, and Russian companies in Canada, thus including jobs outside the United States, and also including portions of the Keystone pipeline project outside the XL segment in question. 

2. Estimates of economic impacts show wide variations across studies and are not directly comparable due to large differences in modeling assumptions.
3. Crude oil production volume in the WCSB would not be affected by a positive or negative decision on the KXL pipeline

12.23.22-KXL-Pipeline-Job-Loss-and-Impacts-on-Consumer-Energy-Costs-001245.pdf (senate.gov)

Basically US refineries normally run about 70% of capacity for maintenance reasons as

different sections must be closed and cleaned on a planned rotation.  Additional crude

from any source would be useless and would need to be stored at Cushing OK.

When originally proposed in 2008 the US was a net importer of crude oils but steadily

increasing domestic production and development of the Permian Basin turned the US

into an exporter by 2019.

Refiners and  oil transporters worked together to reroute existing pipelines,

in one case converting a 30 inch natural gas pipeline to carry Canadian Tar sands,

in other cases reversing the flow direction to carry domestic oil to refineries.

BY 2019 Mr Trump was declaring us to be "energy independent" because we started

exporting crude and LNG.  

800

12.23.22-KXL-Pipeline-Job-Loss-and-Impacts-on-Consumer-Energy-Costs-001245.pdf (senate.gov)

Other market factors like COVID, supply chain, inflation, tariffs all combined to make the

three 2010 studies by Perryman Group (TCEnergy) EPRINC, and Ensys irrelevant

to our current situation in 2021, hence Biden revoked the right of way in Montana that

Trump had reversed in 2017 and again in 2020.

Completion of Phase 3, 3A and 3B were all considered important to finish under the

Obama Administration even as Obama cancelled Phase 4 once, in 2013 and again in

2015.

As to the economic impact the bipartisan Senate report concluded that 

  The literature review for this report showed that the effect on consumer prices was inconclusive , particularly in light of the changes that have occurred in Canadian and U.S. crude oil markets since the KXL pipeline was proposed.  12.23.22-KXL-Pipeline-Job-Loss-and-Impacts-on-Consumer-Energy-Costs-001245.pdf (senate.gov)

As an aside, this PolitiFact article cuts to the chase much more directly than the Federal report.

PolitiFact | End of Keystone pipeline did cost jobs, but most were temporary

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.26  seeder  Texan1211  replied to  Split Personality @2.1.25    3 weeks ago

lots of high paying jobs trashed. billions in dollars gone poof.

go Joe go.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
2.1.27  Split Personality  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.26    3 weeks ago

Go team Go.

Keep your eyes closed to reality and follow your leader.

Thank you for the link that disproves almost every aspect of the Fox 

"opinion" hit piece.

Go team Go! /s

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.28  seeder  Texan1211  replied to  Split Personality @2.1.27    3 weeks ago

ooh, sorry, my tolerance of Biden sycophants is a little low these days.

Lots of money could have been made by the folks building the pipeline, and I still wonder why unions support Biden after a fiasco like this. Billions of dollars in economic impact--poof!

Joe built that--keep cheering!

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.29  seeder  Texan1211  replied to  Tessylo @2.1.7    3 weeks ago
Had negligible benefits for the US if any

Yeah, man, thousands of high-paying union jobs are completely negligible. 

I will try to remember that when Democrats get all huffy about some union demanding higher wages and more work.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.30  seeder  Texan1211  replied to  Tessylo @2.1.12    3 weeks ago
IT'S STUPID TO SAY IT'S BIDEN'S ADMIN. MAKING THESE CLAIMS, IT'S JUST ANOTHER CORRUPT REPUB, DAINES

Right there is PROOF you never have read the article, as I was pretty sure of all along.

Maybe, just maybe, you could peruse at least the very first sentence in the article.

That way, you will learn that Daines is not making these claims, the report came from Biden's Department of Energy.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
2.1.31  Split Personality  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.28    3 weeks ago
ooh, sorry, my tolerance of Biden sycophants is a little low these days.

Sorry to hear that you are becoming unhinged over nothing.

Lots of money could have been made by the folks building the pipeline,

Do you realize that the Keystone Pipeline was built?

You and other so-called conservatives are bitching about a lack of progress on an increasingly unnecessary section of pipeline,

Doesn't that defy the meaning of the word conservative?

and I still wonder why unions support Biden after a fiasco like this.

You are clearly unfamiliar with how unions work, color me shocked, again.

Billions of dollars in economic impact--poof!

Prove it without some imaginary optimistic interpretation of a bipartisan Senate

report that expertly quotes what could have been in the rosiest of rosiest

estimates because we all know that every political pork project creates

thousands of American millionaires. /s  Have you seen a Republican Senator 

like  Kennedy(R) from Louisiana on the news championing this story? 

No, because he knows better

Joe built that--keep cheering!

No actually it was proposed to the Bush Admin in 2008 and approved for many

phases and continued by the Obama Administration until TCEnergy proposed

abandoning the second pipeline's proposed parallel system following the original

pipeline and instead proposing phase 4,

cutting across the Midwest in a gigantic  shortcut previously denied by Bush.

Obama said no in 2013 & 2015, but still the people making the

millions of dollars in Canada persisted.

Trump said yes in 2017 but was shut down by the Courts.

Trump tried to prevail by executive order in 2020,

only to be shut down again by the Courts in November 2020. 

Biden took only predictable step by canceling a project already effectively

killed by the courts.

The bottom line is that TC Energy formerly TransCanadaPC owns all of the

Keystone Pipelines and together with the government of Alberta Canada reap all

of the profits, not the USA.

Now if you will excuse me, this class is dismissed.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.32  seeder  Texan1211  replied to  Split Personality @2.1.31    3 weeks ago
Sorry to hear that you are becoming unhinged over nothing.

I am not unhinged nor are they nothing.

You are clearly unfamiliar with how unions work, color me shocked, again.

Thanks for continuing to prove Reagan right.

Now if you will excuse me, this class is dismissed.

You should stay enrolled until you lose that sickening condescending' tude, dude!

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
2.1.33  Split Personality  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.32    3 weeks ago
I am not unhinged nor are they nothing.

Ok, you are overreacting to 12 year old overly optimistic predictions by the contractor's own propaganda reports, since proven wrong but cherry picked out of context by Senator Daines for purely political theater.

Why no news, no speeches or editorials from the seven Republicans who signed off on the summary report you provided the link for?

The Honorable Richard C. Shelby (R)Alabama
Vice Chairman, Senate Committee on Appropriations
The Honorable Kay Granger (R)Texas
Ranking Member, House Committee on Appropriations
The Honorable John Kennedy (R) Louisiana
Ranking Member, Subcommittee on Energy and Water Development
Senate Committee on Appropriations
• The Honorable Mike Simpson (R) Idaho
Ranking Member, Subcommittee on Energy and Water Development and Related Agencies
House Committee on Appropriations
The Honorable John Barrasso (R) Wyoming
Ranking Member, Senate Committee on Energy and Natural Resources
Department of Energy | December 2022
Keystone XL Extension Permit Revocation: Energy Costs and Job Impacts| Page ii
The Honorable Cathy McMorris Rodgers (R) Washington
Ranking Member, House Committee on Energy and Commerce
• • The Honorable Fred Upton (R) Michigan
Ranking Member, Subcommittee on Energy
House Committee on Energy and Commerce

I can keep reposting the sections of your link that say the estimates were flawed,

 Other estimates for temporary jobs during the construction phase ranged from 16,149 to 59,468 annually for a two-year period. However, the study includes segments of the Keystone pipeline that were not related to the XL portion and jobs corresponding to those sections that were built were realized. Additionally, the high-end figure comes from this study which faced significant criticism for including in its analysis project inputs from India, Russia, and Russian companies in Canada, thus including jobs outside 
the United States.

or that the economic impact was imaginary,

Estimates of economic impacts from the Keystone XL pipeline showed wide variations across studies examined, and are not directly comparable due to large differences in modeling assumptions. The literature review for this report suggests that the impact on consumer prices from Keystone XL, had it been completed, was inconclusive, particularly in light of the changes that have occurred in Canadian and U.S. crude oil markets since the KXL pipeline was proposed. In addition, a 2010 study sponsored by the U.S. Department of Energy found “no significant change in total U.S. refining 
activity, total crude and product import volumes and costs…whether KXL is built or not.

but I can tell it is a waste of time. 

You simply do not want to understand what the report says.

You should stay enrolled until you lose that sickening condescending' tude, dude!

The irony in that lack of self-awareness is truly epic.  Thanks for the laugh.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.34  seeder  Texan1211  replied to  Split Personality @2.1.33    3 weeks ago
Ok, you are overreacting to 12 year old overly optimistic predictions by the contractor's own propaganda reports, since proven wrong but cherry picked out of context by Senator Daines for purely political theater.

Nonsense.

You simply do not want to understand what the report says.

Thanks for continuing to prove Reagan correct.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.1.35  Tessylo  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.22    3 weeks ago

stop the constant spamming

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.1.36  Tessylo  replied to  Split Personality @2.1.33    3 weeks ago

jrSmiley_81_smiley_image.gif

jrSmiley_93_smiley_image.jpg

 
 
 
arkpdx
Professor Participates
2.1.37  arkpdx  replied to  Ozzwald @2.1    3 weeks ago
most of those jobs were temporary .

If you are not working and trying to support your family even a temporary job is welcome

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Sophomore Principal
2.1.38  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Ozzwald @2.1    3 weeks ago
  • President Joe Biden canceling the permit for the Keystone XL pipeline did lead to hundreds of job losses, but most of those jobs were temporary .

Aren’t all construction jobs “temporary”?

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.39  seeder  Texan1211  replied to  arkpdx @2.1.37    3 weeks ago

it is a classicly stupid mistake for anyone to complain about pipeline construction jobs being temporary.

aren't they all?

 
 
 
arkpdx
Professor Participates
2.1.40  arkpdx  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.30    3 weeks ago
Maybe, just maybe 

Oh you optimist you !

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
2.1.41  Sparty On  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @2.1.38    3 weeks ago

All mine were .... but that’s just me ......

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Sophomore Principal
2.1.42  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.39    3 weeks ago

Every construction job that I’ve known of has been temporary.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.43  seeder  Texan1211  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @2.1.42    3 weeks ago

maybe the leftist fools want construction to never be completely finished. 

ain't they brilliant?

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Sophomore Principal
2.1.44  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.43    3 weeks ago

I would be pissed if I hired a construction company to build my house and they never finished.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.45  seeder  Texan1211  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @2.1.44    3 weeks ago

Very astute of you 

Of course we know that all construction jobs are temporary and rightfully expect construction to be finished at some point.

Folks making arguments against the pipeline because of that are a few bricks shy of a load.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
2.1.46  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Tessylo @2.1.15    3 weeks ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
2.1.47  Ronin2  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @2.1.4    3 weeks ago

No, they are getting transported by rail; like they were before. Making Soros very damn happy. 

Only idiotic leftists think that shutting down the XL pipeline ended production. It costs more to move it by rail. Is far less safe. But so long as Soros is happy...

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
2.1.48  Split Personality  replied to  Ronin2 @2.1.47    3 weeks ago
No, they are getting transported by rail; like they were before.

Your link doesn't mention rail at all, it only mentions improvements in existing infrastructure and pipelines owned by American companies leading to more volume.

Making Soros very damn happy. 

Not mentioned in the link either, I would stop fixating on conspiracy theories.

Only idiotic leftists think that shutting down the XL pipeline ended production.

Only idiotic partisan naysayers would interpret cancelling one proposed pipeline as 

"ending production".

It costs more to move it by rail. Is far less safe.

Finally, a nugget of truth.  70% of all crude is moved by pipelines, 23% over the oceans

leaving 4% for rail and 3% for trucking which will never go away because they are far

more versatile.

Bitumen, the chief constituent of heavy crude, is the opposite, carbon-heavy and hydrogen-light, as viscous as peanut butter, unable to flow through pipelines unless diluents are added to it, but also unable to be loaded into railcars unless it is heated or diluted. Heavy crude is therefore more expensive to transport by rail than light crude, which is one reason tar sands crude lags far behind light crude in rail shipments. Another is that few rail cars are equipped to carry heavy crude. Some oil industry analysts predict that both obstacles will eventually fall away, leading to massive heavy crude transport by rail, while others think that rail will never serve more than a niche market, serving newly developed oil fields only until pipelines to them are built. Shipping Crude Oil by Rail: New Front in the Tar Sands Wars - Yale E360

Old article but still true because most of the tarsands move through the existing Keystone Pipeline.

But so long as Soros is happy...

Happy as any billionaire can be I suppose, since he is a major investor in pipelines and 

storage facilities but don't let reality intrude into your fantasies about Soros.

George Soros Makes Massive Financial Investments on Fossil Fuels - Tennessee Star

While none of the companies he owns outright involve rail, I am sure his investments include something that triggers your conspiracy theory.

 
 
 
zuksam
Junior Silent
3  zuksam    3 weeks ago

We should also consider how much this may have cost every energy consumer whether at the gas pump, heating their homes, or just how much these higher energy costs have driven inflation higher. It probably cost US Citizens Trillions even if it would only have lowered US energy prices 3%.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
3.1  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  zuksam @3    3 weeks ago

The only thing they "considered" was that the previous administration set this up so they had to take it down. 

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
3.1.1  Split Personality  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @3.1    3 weeks ago

Well it was the same argument prior to the previous Administration

and the same misguided argument about "loss"

which led that Administration to kill the project in 2015.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
3.1.2  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Split Personality @3.1.1    3 weeks ago

So it's a democrat thing to kill jobs.  Not that it's a surprise

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
3.1.3  Split Personality  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @3.1.2    3 weeks ago

No Jeremy, it's a leadership responsibility, at least that's what Reagan & Bush said

when they started the whole BRAC fiasco, not just killing jobs but whole communities,

towns and regions, killing historical military legacy and giving away prime real estate,

because supposedly we didn't need it anymore.

There is an existing Keystone pipeline,

and it has been determined several times before

that we did not need to build a shortcut across our best farms,

over the nation's largest aquifer

to help the Canadians save a little time & money

while the RISK remains solidly on US soil.

The Keystone Pipeline Is A Lemon. It Just Leaked Again for the 22nd Time | Pipeline Fighters Hub

The more beneficial phases of the pipeline from

Cushing OK to Nederland TX and Houston TX were  built under a

Democrat Administration creating many of those temporary construction

jobs.

Keystone XL Pipeline Map

The proposed Keystone XL extension actually comprised two segments. The first, a southern leg, had already been completed and now runs between Cushing, Oklahoma, and Port Arthur, Texas. Opponents of this project—now called the Gulf Coast Pipeline—say that TC Energy took advantage of legal loopholes to push the pipeline through, obtaining authorization under a U.S. Army Corps of Engineers nationwide permit and dodging the more rigorous vetting process for individual permits, which requires public input. The second segment was the hotly contested 1,209-mile northern leg—a shortcut of sorts—that would have run from Hardisty, Alberta, through Montana and South Dakota to Steele City, Nebraska.

512

But don't let facts keep you from making wild sweeping generalizations.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
3.1.4  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Split Personality @3.1.3    3 weeks ago
it's a leadership responsibility

Yo are correct.  It was a leadership failure in 2015 and in 2021.  Just as you stated.  Just happens that in BOTH instances, democrats were those "leaders" and thousands of jobs were lost.

Don't let facts get in your way when spinning bullshit. 

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
3.1.5  Split Personality  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @3.1.4    3 weeks ago
Don't let facts get in your way when spinning bullshit.

How ironic.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
3.2  Split Personality  replied to  zuksam @3    3 weeks ago

Companies in Alberta Canada would be the ultimate beneficiaries of any pipeline designed to take tar sands from Alberta Canada to  Houston TX to be refined into kerosene products bound for China.

The only US Benefits might have been from the construction phase and the refining phase.

Refining Tar Sands Oil into kerosene would not have affected gasoline prices anywhere.

Meanwhile the risks would have overwhelmingly been borne by Montana, South Dakota, Nebraska and Kansas, the notorious "second leg" and TC Energy has had a long history of oil spills.

Keystone XL Pipeline Environmental Impact

Leaks and the pipeline

Tar sands oil is thicker, more acidic, and more corrosive than lighter conventional crude, and this ups the likelihood that a pipeline carrying it will leak . Indeed, one study found that between 2007 and 2010, pipelines moving tar sands oil in Midwestern states spilled three times more per mile than the U.S. national average for pipelines carrying conventional crude. Since it first went into operation in 2010, TC Energy’s original Keystone Pipeline System has leaked more than a dozen times ; one incident in North Dakota sent a 60-foot, 21,000-gallon geyser of tar sands oil spewing into the air. Less than two years before the project was finally pulled, the Keystone tar sands pipeline was temporarily shut down after a spill in North Dakota of reportedly more than 378,000 gallons in late October 2019 . And the risk that Keystone XL would have spilled was heightened because of the extended time the pipe segments were left sitting outside in stockpiles. “A study published in early 2020, co-authored by TC Energy’s own scientists, found that the anti-corrosion coating on the project’s pipes was damaged from being stored outside and exposed to the elements for the last decade,” notes NRDC senior attorney Jaclyn Prange , who spent years working on KXL litigation.

The Keystone XL Pipeline: Everything You Need To Know | NRDC

So the story is somewhat like complaining about not winning the lottery because one had not bought a ticket.

It avoided much more damage than it would have "benefited" the USA.

Existing pipelines have since been shown up to the task.

Half of all crude oil pipelines across the United States are not being utilized amid lower fossil fuel production following the outbreak of the global coronavirus pandemic, energy consultancy Wood Mackenzie has reported as  quoted  by Reuters.

Prior to the pandemic, the utilization rate of U.S. oil pipelines stood at 60 to 70 percent, but now it’s down to 50 percent as production dropped from a record 13 million bpd to 11 million bpd.

The average, however, is not distributed equally across the country’s oil fields. The Gray Oak Pipeline in the Permian, for example, is being utilized at 94 percent, according to Wood Mac’s head of oil data, Ryan Saxton. The BridgeTex pipeline, which ships oil from Midland and Colorado City to Houston, is being utilized at 70 percent of its capacity.

Half Of U.S. Oil Pipelines Sit Empty | OilPrice.com
 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
3.3  Ozzwald  replied to  zuksam @3    3 weeks ago
We should also consider how much this may have cost every energy consumer whether at the gas pump, heating their homes, or just how much these higher energy costs have driven inflation higher.

In America?  Answer is ZERO.  This is Canadian oil, going to the international market, just cutting across America's backyard to get there.

Here's a question for you.  How much money will Biden be saving from the cost of cleaning up spills and leaks from this Canadian pipeline?

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Sophomore Principal
3.3.1  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Ozzwald @3.3    3 weeks ago
This is Canadian oil, going to the international market, just cutting across America's backyard to get there.

No, most of Alberta's  bitumen is refined in the US  after transport by pipeline, rail or marine capability.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
3.3.2  Ozzwald  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @3.3.1    3 weeks ago
No

Yes.

Canadian oil, taking up at least one of our refineries, to be sold internationally.  America gets nothing from it except clean up costs.

The Keystone pipeline leaked in Kansas .

It's been over a week since TC Energy announced its Keystone pipeline leaked into Mill Creek in Washington County, Kan. Nearly 600,000 gallons of oil spilled into the waterway as well as the land surrounding it. Environmental advocates say this is just the beginning of a cleanup that will likely take years.

Keystone Pipeline Leaks 14,000 Barrels of Oil in Kansas

This is the largest onshore crude pipeline spill in nine years and the biggest in the system’s history

Keystone pipeline raises concerns after third major spill in five years

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
3.3.3  Ronin2  replied to  Ozzwald @3.3    3 weeks ago
How much money will Biden be saving from the cost of cleaning up spills and leaks from this Canadian pipeline?

Since it is still moving by rail and OTR truck to US ports; and then heading to China and Europe. Not much.

See post 10.1.6 to see just some of the train derailments involving Canadian Tar Sand Oil; and the amounts involved. I am sure Buffet and Soros are thrilled with Brandon the Human Fuck Up Machine's decision.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
3.4  Tessylo  replied to  zuksam @3    3 weeks ago

It has nothing to do with anything that would affect the US, NOTHING

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
3.5  Tessylo  replied to  zuksam @3    3 weeks ago

It would have benefitted us ZERO.  Some folks refuse to get that through their thick heads

 
 
 
magicschoolbusdropout
Sophomore Principal
3.5.1  magicschoolbusdropout  replied to  Tessylo @3.5    3 weeks ago

[removed]

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.5.2  seeder  Texan1211  replied to  Tessylo @3.5    3 weeks ago
It would have benefitted us ZERO.  Some folks refuse to get that through their thick heads

That is completely, monumentally, stupendously WRONG.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
3.5.3  Tessylo  replied to  Texan1211 @3.5.2    3 weeks ago

Nope, truth

Liberal=Truth/Reality

I await your predicted response

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
4  seeder  Texan1211    3 weeks ago

might be interesting if someone could get a straight answer from the Administrative on this. but I won't hold my breath for that.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
4.1  Split Personality  replied to  Texan1211 @4    3 weeks ago

"Bridges to Nowhere" are the typical description of unneeded projects that get built as the result of politicly driven pork barrel projects.

Pipelines should be favorites because you cannot see most of them, unlike those pesky bridges.

The current winner is one of Alaska Senator Ted Stevens (R) projects, one of the bridges built in Alaska which is not attached to a paved road at either end. Only the US military currently uses the disconnected Tanna River Bridge.  

I guess when Republicans do it, it's called job creation.  If a Dem was responsible, it would be taxpayers' dollars being wasted.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
4.1.1  seeder  Texan1211  replied to  Split Personality @4.1    3 weeks ago

hundreds of good paying jobs if not thousands and billions in dollars blown because Orange Man Bad.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
4.1.2  Tessylo  replied to  Texan1211 @4.1.1    3 weeks ago

Not true -  only temporary jobs while completing.  

'Thousands and billions of dollars, - meaning what???  Meaningless nonsense.  Comparing apples to oranges.

Biden admin admitted nothing - this is just a hit piece from Steve Daines, R, who must be losing a lot of money because of this, lots of folks must be willing to line his pockets for a piece of the pie but no go.

Thank you, President Biden, for killing this worthless project

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
4.1.3  Tessylo  replied to  Texan1211 @4.1.1    3 weeks ago

Not true

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
4.1.4  seeder  Texan1211  replied to  Tessylo @4.1.2    3 weeks ago

Come back when and IF you ever read the article instead of just wading in to defend Joe and his massive fuck ups.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
4.1.5  seeder  Texan1211  replied to  Tessylo @4.1.2    3 weeks ago
Biden admin admitted nothing - this is just a hit piece from Steve Daines, R, who must be losing a lot of money because of this, lots of folks must be willing to line his pockets for a piece of the pie but no go.

Not that you'll READ it but here ya go anyway:

12.23.22-KXL-Pipeline-Job-Loss-and-Impacts-on-Consumer-Energy-Costs-001245.pdf (senate.gov)

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
4.1.6  seeder  Texan1211  replied to  Tessylo @4.1.2    3 weeks ago
'Thousands and billions of dollars, - meaning what???  Meaningless nonsense.  Comparing apples to oranges.

Well, if one reads the ENTIRE sentence, it reads this way:

hundreds of good paying jobs if not thousands and billions in dollars blown because Orange Man Bad.

Hundreds of jobs if not thousands lost.

Billion dollars blown through cancelled contracts, lost wages, etc.

Hope that clears things up for you.

No one is comparing anything, never mind apples or oranges. 

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
4.2  Tessylo  replied to  Texan1211 @4    3 weeks ago

Please do, not that it would make any noticeable difference

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
4.2.1  seeder  Texan1211  replied to  Tessylo @4.2    3 weeks ago
Please do, not that it would make any noticeable difference

I would just love to get a straight answer from Biden.

Hell, I would be almost happy just getting a fucking coherent answer from him.

It would indeed make a huge difference if Biden was capable and willing to do so.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
5  Sparty On    3 weeks ago

Uh oh, his handlers aren’t gonna like that ....

 
 
 
squiggy
Junior Quiet
6  squiggy    3 weeks ago

Biden does this as the nimbys fight against Vineyard Wind and it's offshore power generation effort - a fight that goes back to Ted Killer Kennedy.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
6.1  Tessylo  replied to  squiggy @6    3 weeks ago

What the fuck are you talking about?  Green energy/wind energy is coming, just get the fuck out of the way

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
6.1.1  Sparty On  replied to  Tessylo @6.1    3 weeks ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
6.1.2  Ronin2  replied to  Tessylo @6.1    3 weeks ago

You think conservatives are the ones standing in of offshore windmills?

A group of Nantucket residents filed a federal  lawsuit  Wednesday to block the construction of dozens of wind turbines off the coast of Massachusetts.

Nantucket Residents Against Turbines  — or ACK RAT — says Vineyard Wind’s proposed project 14 miles (22 kilometers) south of the island poses a risk to the endangered North Atlantic right whale.

Mary Chalke, an island resident and member of the group, said the lawsuit against the U.S. Bureau of Ocean Energy Management and other federal agencies isn't just about Vineyard Wind, but the consequences of greenlighting other turbine projects also in the pipeline.

“We all want renewable energy,” she said after the group filed the suit in Boston federal court. “This represents the transformation and industrialization of a pristine natural environment."

BOEM and other federal agencies have determined that the wind project will have minimal impact on the species. In an environmental document released last year, the agencies concluded that noise from piling driving activities during the construction phase of the project would cause, at most, temporary stress and behavioral disturbances for about 20 whales. Noise associated with any other part of the project was determined to be "insignificant."

Vineyard Wind's construction plan, which was given final approval earlier this year, specifies that the company will only do this loud construction work at times of the year when the whales are unlikely to be in the area.

Still, Vallorie Oliver, an island resident and co-plaintiff in the lawsuit, argues federal officials haven't provided adequate research to back up their claims.

“We're simply asking for real science-based answers to the impact on our natural environment,” she said, speaking with other group members in front of the Massachusetts Statehouse.

.

In Nantucket County, MA 71.7% of the people voted Democrat in the last presidential election, 26.2% voted for the Republican Party , and the remaining 2.1 % voted Independent . In the last Presidential election, Nantucket county remained overwhelmingly Democratic, 71.7% to 26.2%.
Nantucket county voted Democratic in every Presidential election since 2000

Yup, they definitely sound like conservatives./S

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
7  Tessylo    3 weeks ago

Yet certain folks act like the keystone pipeline would have supplied endless jobs and oil for the US (which is how #45 gave us energy independence which he never did, would, or could).

Had negligible benefits for the US if any

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
7.1  seeder  Texan1211  replied to  Tessylo @7    3 weeks ago

funny when Biden sycophants dispute his Admin. reports!

lol

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
7.1.1  Tessylo  replied to  Texan1211 @7.1    3 weeks ago

There would have been no real benefit to the US whatsoever, has absolutely nothing to do with his Admin. reports!!

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
7.1.2  Tessylo  replied to  Texan1211 @7.1    3 weeks ago

According to your 'article', what positive benefits would there have been for the U.S.?  Negligible, IF ANY 

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
7.1.3  Tessylo  replied to  Texan1211 @7.1    3 weeks ago

MINIMAL PERMANENT JOBS - APPROXIMATELY 50 PERMANENT JOBS IF COMPLETED

Negligible benefits, IF ANY, if pipeline were to be completed

US stuck with clean up of leaks and cost WHEN NOT IF they occu

Fuck that!

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
7.1.4  seeder  Texan1211  replied to  Tessylo @7.1.3    3 weeks ago

The cancellation cost hundreds and thousands of good paying jobs and billions of dollars.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
7.1.5  seeder  Texan1211  replied to  Tessylo @7.1.2    3 weeks ago
According to your 'article', what positive benefits would there have been for the U.S.? 

I am not going to read the article FOR you, you will have to do it for yourself.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
7.1.6  seeder  Texan1211  replied to  Tessylo @7.1.1    3 weeks ago
[deleted]
 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
7.1.7  Tessylo  replied to  Texan1211 @7.1.4    3 weeks ago

Not true, Only temporary positions during construction.  Less  than 50 permanent

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
8  Tessylo    3 weeks ago

I see like most republicans, this Daine asshole has all his reich wing talking points down like woke, etc, saying a whole lot of nothing while blaming the DEMOCRATS AND PROGRESSIVES AND THE LEFT, AS USUAL

All today's republicans/gqp have is blame others, nothing is ever their fault, EVER.  Nor any plans, ideas, or solutions,

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
8.3  seeder  Texan1211  replied to  Tessylo @8    3 weeks ago
I see like most republicans, this Daine asshole has all his reich wing talking points down like woke, etc, saying a whole lot of nothing while blaming the DEMOCRATS AND PROGRESSIVES AND THE LEFT, AS USUAL All today's republicans/gqp have is blame others, nothing is ever their fault, EVER.  Nor any plans, ideas, or solutions,

I suppose you'll just have to excuse the fuck out of Daines for making the Biden Administration issue the report.

Funny, the bill Congress passed mandating the report didn't say what the Administration had to conclude in it.

 
 
 
Hallux
Junior Principal
9  Hallux    3 weeks ago

"Interesting' hit piece with zero links to the report but awash with links to the author's other opinions which by golly are a never ending wash, rince, repeat cycle. Not a good look fellas.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
9.1  seeder  Texan1211  replied to  Hallux @9    3 weeks ago

If you can refute the article, go for it!

 
 
 
Hallux
Junior Principal
9.1.1  Hallux  replied to  Texan1211 @9.1    3 weeks ago

Gotta a link to the actual report Tex? The author's version of republican wokeness (yes it exists and in spades) is tiresome.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
9.1.2  seeder  Texan1211  replied to  Hallux @9.1.1    3 weeks ago

Do try to keep up.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
9.1.3  seeder  Texan1211  replied to  Hallux @9.1.1    3 weeks ago
 
 
 
Hallux
Junior Principal
9.1.4  Hallux  replied to  Texan1211 @9.1.3    3 weeks ago

Thanks ... read it and did not see anything in it 'worthy' of even saying 'darn you Joe'! But hey, keep it up ... afterall it worked so well in 2022. /s

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
9.1.5  seeder  Texan1211  replied to  Hallux @9.1.4    3 weeks ago

Looks like you didn't find anything to dispute in it just like the article.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
9.1.6  Tessylo  replied to  Texan1211 @9.1    3 weeks ago

Wjat article?  It's faux news' opinion/lies on the subject

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Sophomore Principal
10  Drinker of the Wry    3 weeks ago

Canceling the Keystone XL Pipeline has no positive impact on the environment and might have a negative one:

  • Cancelation won't decrease oil demand
  • Cancelation won't decrease Alberta oil sand development 
  • Cancelation won't decrease amount of oil sands refined in the US
  • Cancelation will mean oils sands are shipped to refineries by truck and rail
  • Pipelines result in less spillage than trains or trucks and require less energy to move the oil
 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
10.1  Split Personality  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @10    3 weeks ago

Was there a link to this

I would take issue with the last two bullet points.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Sophomore Principal
10.1.1  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Split Personality @10.1    3 weeks ago

Do you think that the amount of oil sands refined in the US has declined instead of grown?  If a additional pipeline isn’t available, truck and train is the only substitute.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
10.1.2  Split Personality  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @10.1.1    3 weeks ago

Despite the current Keystone pipeline having been built exclusively to move bitumen products and TCEnergy's plans to try to double up the entire length of the pipeline capacity,

the current Keystone pipeline runs under capacity all of the time.

Truck and rail is unnecessary.

In the first quarter of 2022 they pumped 610,000 barrels per day.

In the second Quarter 2022 they pumped 622,000 barrels per day.

In November 2022 they pumped over 700,000 barrels per day as part of a test.

In December they returned to 622,000 barrels per day until 12/07/2022

when there was a major blow out in a field in Kansas which reportedly lost 660,000 gallons, probably more.

As previously stated elsewhere and acknowledged in the Federal report, there are only 138 refineries, and they don't need more pipelines. 

If we built more pipelines to create more temporary construction jobs, how many truckers and railroad people does that put out of work permanently?

No good deed goes unpunished.

The report also enumerated how carriers and refineries worked together from 2010 to 2022 to convert underused pipelines by converting them to carry bitumen or reversing the flow of other products through existing lines.

Since we are now exporting domestic oil and natural gas, why do we need to bend over to Canada's wishes to help them get their exports to the international market?

At the same time, we are the ones that suffer when their pipeline leaks here

over and over again.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
10.1.3  devangelical  replied to  Split Personality @10.1.2    3 weeks ago
there was a major blow out in a field in Kansas which reportedly lost 660,000 gallons, probably more.

I wonder how many derailed tank cars or wrecked semi tanker trailers that represents. my nephew in houston has something to do with managing pipeline logistics for a major oil company. he's also a diehard republican. he told me keystone was unnecessary and only benefited a handful of investors.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Sophomore Principal
10.1.4  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Split Personality @10.1.2    3 weeks ago
Despite the current Keystone pipeline having been built exclusively to move bitumen products and TCEnergy's plans to try to double up the entire length of the pipeline capacity,

the current Keystone pipeline runs under capacity all of the time.

Truck and rail is unnecessary.

TCE must have wanted to just waste money.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
10.1.5  Split Personality  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @10.1.4    3 weeks ago

Corporations do it all the time under the guise of investment.

TCE now has easements all across the proposed path to sell or reuse.

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
10.1.6  Ronin2  replied to  Split Personality @10.1.2    3 weeks ago
Truck and rail is unnecessary.

Do some research. Pipelines cannot support all of the tar sand oil being shipped from Canada.

when there was a major blow out in a field in Kansas which reportedly lost 660,000 gallons, probably more.

Rail is just so much safer./S I didn't even list all of the train derailments involving Canadian Tar Sand Oil. Just the ones at the top of my internet browser. I am sure I could dig an find more. Rail tanker cars are old; and haven't been well maintained. They are risky moving anything- much the less Canadian Tar Sand Oil.

If we built more pipelines to create more temporary construction jobs, how many truckers and railroad people does that put out of work permanently?

Please, there is a shortage of truckers and rail workers.

Guess that blows your worry right out of the water. Easing the amount of tar sands transported by rail and OTR would free up a good portion of our supply chain capacity.

As previously stated elsewhere and acknowledged in the Federal report, there are only 138 refineries, and they don't need more pipelines. 

We need more refineries; but mighty mental midget Democrats have made it financially unfeasible to start up refineries; or bring ones that have been shut down back online due to government and environmental restrictions.

No good deed goes unpunished.

Especially when Democrats are in charge.

Since we are now exporting domestic oil and natural gas, why do we need to bend over to Canada's wishes to help them get their exports to the international market?

At the same time, we are the ones that suffer when their pipeline leaks here

over and over again.

Instead of processing the Canadian Tar Sand Oil here; it is now going directly to China and Europe. It still passes through the US and gets loaded on overseas tankers to China and Europe- just watch for the next major train derailment involving them. If we are lucky it will take place in Canada.

Guess the US doesn't need the processing money (or the tax money gained from it). We are just providing the ports and loading facilities. 

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
10.1.7  Split Personality  replied to  Ronin2 @10.1.6    3 weeks ago
Pipelines cannot support all of the tar sand oil being shipped from Canada.

And our refineries don't need it.  It's no good for gasoline, only kerosene which is exported to India and China.

Rail is just so much safer./S

Never said that but that is another reason that rail only accounts for 4% of all oil transport. 

Please, there is a shortage of truckers and rail work

Maybe a shortage of people who want to work.  There are 8 million people voluntarily out of work and 10 million job openings.  including hundreds if not thousands of openings at CBP.  Nobody wants those jobs regardless of the pay

Instead of processing the Canadian Tar Sand Oil here; it is now going directly to China and Europe. It still passes through the US and gets loaded on overseas tankers to China and Europe

Fine by me, just pay the tariffs on the way through, as I said we can only make so much kerosene here.

- just watch for the next major train derailment involving them. If we are lucky it will take place in Canada.

Yes, so much better than Kansas farmlands that the Keystone has ruined.

Guess the US doesn't need the processing money (or the tax money gained from it). We are just providing the ports and loading facilities. 

All covered gloomy Gus. No one skips payment regardless of which country is involved.

Oil Industry Taxes: A Cash Cow For Government | Tax Foundation

U.S. Energy Information Administration - EIA - Independent Statistics and Analysis

120122-Oil and Gas Tax Revenue (texas.gov)

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Sophomore Principal
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
10.1.9  Split Personality  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @10.1.8    3 weeks ago

What do those woke do gooder climate change believers know? lol

Bitumen - Production, Extraction, Uses, Prices and FAQs (vedantu.com)

Can bitumen be refined into gasoline?

Bitumen is made of hydrocarbons—the same molecules in liquid oil—and is used to produce gasoline and other petroleum products. Extracti ng bitumen from tar sands—and refining it into products like gasoline—i s significantly costlier and more difficult than extracting and refining liquid oil .

What Is Bitumen Made From? – Bescord

Expense is what drives business, why bother turning a barrel of bitumen into 2 gallons of gasoline when you can take a standard 42 gallon barrel of light crude to produce 20 gallons of gasoline and 20 gallons of diesel fuel?

Bitumen depending on the grade can yield about 20 gallons of Deisel and 20 gallons of asphalt

Very few western Canadian refineries can refine Canandian crude and none of their eastern refineries which is why Canada needs US Mid West and Gulf State refineries.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Sophomore Principal
10.1.10  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Split Personality @10.1.9    3 weeks ago
What do those woke do gooder climate change believers know? lol

Exactly, or the Encyclopedia Britannica:

However, most of the bitumen extracted from Canada’s oil sands is upgraded into   synthetic  crude oil and sent to refineries for conversion into a full range of petroleum products, including  gasoline .

And BTW, we certainly don't need anymore asphalt.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
10.1.11  Split Personality  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @10.1.10    3 weeks ago
And BTW, we certainly don't need anymore asphalt.

India loves that stuff, every road, most shoes, roofing.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Sophomore Principal
10.1.12  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Split Personality @10.1.11    3 weeks ago

We need to outlaw asphalt shingles and go back to brick roads.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
10.1.13  Split Personality  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @10.1.12    3 weeks ago

LoL, I hear you about shingles.

The future is in solar/ceramic roofing tiles, more or less permanent.

Certainly not as flammable.

People do like those quiet highways though.

Brick done well is more tolerable than cobblestones though.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
10.2  TᵢG  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @10    3 weeks ago
The Keystone XL pipeline extension, proposed by TC Energy (then TransCanada) in 2008, was initially designed to transport the planet’s dirtiest fossil fuel , tar sands oil, to market—and fast. As an expansion of the company’s existing Keystone Pipeline System, which has been operating since 2010 (and continues to send Canadian tar sands crude oil from Alberta to various processing hubs in the middle of the United States), the pipeline promised to dramatically increase capacity to process the 168 billion barrels of crude oil locked up under Canada’s boreal forest. It was expected to transport 830,000 barrels of Alberta tar sands oil per day to refineries on the Gulf Coast of Texas. From the refineries, the oil would be sent chiefly overseas—not to gasoline pumps in the United States.

I recommend you read the entire article.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
11  Tessylo    3 weeks ago

No positive impact or US

NEGATIVE IMPACT FOR US FOR ALREADY MULTIPLE LEAKS AND POLLUTION WITH NO DOUBT FUTURE SIMILAR DISASTERS

 
 
 
arkpdx
Professor Participates
11.1  arkpdx  replied to  Tessylo @11    3 weeks ago

Yes rail transport is so much safer. /s

The federal government predicts that trains hauling crude oil or ethanol will derail an average of   10 times a year   over the next two decades, causing more than $4 billion in damage and possibly killing hundreds of people if an accident happens in a densely populated area.
original
  › oil-t...

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
12  Vic Eldred    3 weeks ago

This is truly the biggest news story on this site. The fact that this agency finally admitted, however tepidly, what Joe Biden did to the nation's energy production.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
12.1  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Vic Eldred @12    3 weeks ago
The fact that this agency finally admitted, however tepidly, what Joe Biden did to the nation's energy production.

But you notice how many are trying to spin it to be something else?

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
12.2  Split Personality  replied to  Vic Eldred @12    3 weeks ago
This is truly the biggest news story on this site.

I guess that is a personal opinion.

The fact that this agency finally admitted, however tepidly, what Joe Biden did to the nation's energy production.

First there is no admission of anything.

Second, they repeated numbers from the Perryman Groups estimates 12 years ago 

and this tepid board which included 7 Dems and & Republicans admits that those estimates were flawed

and current events render the economic impact inconclusive.

Third, not building this particular section, in their conclusions, affected production not at all.

it would be nice if someone around here would read the actual report and not the knuckleheaded

conclusions of  Sen Daimes, repeated by every anti Biden site in the world.

12.23.22-KXL-Pipeline-Job-Loss-and-Impacts-on-Consumer-Energy-Costs-001245.pdf (senate.gov)

Now the sections that Obama permitted were very beneficial for Texas and the nation in general as far as

vastly improving the pipeline highways but he got zero press at the time, probably never will.

 
 

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