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The Native American population increasing by 87% says more about whiteness than about demographics - Minnesota Reformer

  

Category:  News & Politics

Via:  kavika  •  last year  •  127 comments

By:   J. Patrick Coolican (Minnesota Reformer)

The Native American population increasing by 87% says more about whiteness than about demographics - Minnesota Reformer
The Native American population in the U.S. grew by a staggering 86.5% between 2010 and 2020, according to the latest U.S. Census - a rate demographers say is impossible to achieve without immigration.

This an interesting article and point of view by Professor Sturm. Some of it I do agree with much of it I don't yet either way it will make an interesting discussion.

Hopefully, NT members will want to discuss the article and Professor Sturm POV.


S E E D E D   C O N T E N T



Circe SturmDecember 23, 2021 6:00 am

Photo courtesy of U.S. Census.

The Native American population in the U.S. grew by a staggering 86.5% between 2010 and 2020, according to the latest U.S. Census - a rate demographers say is impossible to achieve without immigration.

Birth rates among Native Americans don't explain the massive rise in numbers. And there certainly is no evidence of an influx of Native American expatriates returning to the U.S.

Instead, individuals who previously identified as white are now claiming to be Native American.

This growing movement has been captured by terms like "pretendian" and "wannabe."

Another way to describe this recent adoption of Native American identity is what I call "racial shifting."

These people are fleeing not from political and social persecution, but from whiteness.

I spent 14 years researching the topic and interviewing dozens of race-shifters for my book "Becoming Indian." I learned that while some of these people have strong evidence of Native American ancestry, others do not.

Yet nearly all of the 45 people who were interviewed or surveyed for the book believe they have Indigenous ancestry and that it means something powerful about who they are and how they should live their lives. Only a tiny - but troubling - number makes blatantly fraudulent claims to advance their own interests.

History repeats


The search for meaning that characterizes racial shifting is part of an old American story.

Since the days of the Boston Tea Party, when nearly 100 American colonists dressed in Native American garb before throwing 95 tons of British tea into the Boston Harbor, white Americans have distinguished themselves from Europeans by selectively adopting Native American imagery and practices.

Yet as historian Philip Deloria argued in his 1998 book, "Playing Indian," something happened in American society in the 1950s and 1960s that allowed white Americans greater freedom to appropriate nonwhite identities. White Americans, often with the encouragement of the counterculture and later New Age movements, began to seek new meanings in Indigenous cultures.

Those shifts are apparently reflected in U.S. Census data. The Native American population started increasing at a dramatic rate in the 1960s, growing from 552,000 to 9.7 million in 60 years. Prior to then, the Native American population had been relatively stable.

Backlash against assimilation


What distinguishes contemporary racial shifting from these earlier forms of appropriation is that most race shifters see themselves not as white people who "play Indian," but as long-unrecognized American Indians who have been forced by historical circumstances to "play white."

Many argue, for example, that their families avoided anti-Indian policies like removal by blending into white society.

This gradual but fundamental shift over the last 60 years suggests a seismic upheaval in the American racial landscape.

Racial shifting is a rejection of the centuries-long process of assimilation, when different racial and ethnic groups were pressured to adopt white norms of behavior as a way of fitting into an American society that was defined by them. Racial hierarchies that consistently place whiteness at the top are now being challenged.

When speaking to me about their former white lives, racial shifters often described a period of sadness when they searched for meaning and connection. Only when they began to look to their family histories did they realize all that had been lost when their families assimilated into whiteness. As one woman from Missouri put it: "They forced us to be white, act white, live white, and that is a very, very degrading feeling."

The genealogical and historical details might not always be verifiable, but the emotions are real enough. It makes perfect sense that once race shifters link their melancholy to assimilation, they try to ease their sadness by rejecting whiteness and reclaiming an Indigenous status.

Whiteness devalued


Part of what accounts for these new sentiments are significant changes in the public's discussion about race.

In the wake of 1960s civil rights activism and debates about multiculturalism, whiteness has taken on increasingly negative connotations.

In my interviews with race shifters, for example, they frequently associated their former whiteness with racial and cultural emptiness.

As one woman put it: "We had an emptiness inside of us, that we did not know who we were or what we were." They also associated whiteness with social isolation, unearned privilege and guilt over colonialism and slavery.

Today there is growing insecurity about what it means to be white in America. We see this being expressed in public debates about white fragility, affirmative action and colorblind policies. Of course, there's still much security in being white: White privilege is an ongoing reality of American life, and something most white people and white racial shifters take for granted.

This shift from white to Indigenous self-identification is, I believe, fundamentally about a desire to leave behind the negative connotations of whiteness and move toward the material and symbolic values that now attach to Native American identity.

'Attack on our sovereignty'


If you listen only to racial shifters, this growing trend could be seen as a progressive move that challenges the legacy of a racist system.

Yet the citizens of federally recognized tribes offer a different interpretation.

Most view anyone who self-identifies as Native American without being an enrolled citizen of a federally recognized tribe as a threat to tribal sovereignty. As Richard Allen, a former policy analyst with the Cherokee Nation, told me, "Not only is that an insult, but it's also an attack on our sovereignty as Cherokee people, as the Cherokee Nation."

Among American Indians, the term sovereignty is used to assert ongoing rights of political self-determination. Because tribes have the sovereign right to determine their own citizenry, American Indian identity is fundamentally a political status, not a racial one, a fact that is often overlooked in debates about Indigenous identity.

Racial shifters also undermine tribal sovereignty when they create alternative tribes for themselves outside the federal acknowledgment process. Most of these groups, such as the Echota Cherokee Tribe or the Southeastern Cherokee Confederacy, have emerged since the late 1970s.

The number of these new self-identified tribes is startling. Over the course of my research, I discovered 253 groups scattered across the U.S. that identify as some sort of Cherokee tribe.

This is a huge number considering that there are only 574 federally recognized tribes, three of which are Cherokee.

Racial shifting is a growing demographic trend that is creating confusion in the public sphere about who is Native American and who isn't. But its threat is far greater than just social confusion.

Native Americans and their governments face thousands of race-shifters seeking to join their ranks. And as more and more people reject whiteness in favor of indigeneity, they do so at the expense of tribal sovereignty.

This article is republished from The Conversation under a Creative Commons license. Read the original article.

Our stories may be republished online or in print under Creative Commons license CC BY-NC-ND 4.0. We ask that you edit only for style or to shorten, provide proper attribution and link to our web site. Please see our republishing guidelines for use of photos and graphics.

Circe Sturm

Circe Sturm has taught about race and racism in the US for nearly 25 years, first at the University of Oklahoma and now at the University of Texas at Austin, where she is a Professor of Anthropology and faculty affiliate of the Native Americans and Indigenous Studies program. She is the author of two award winning books, "Blood Politics" and "Becoming Indian."

Trolling, taunting, spamming, and off topic comments may be removed at the discretion of group mods. NT members that vote up their own comments, repeat comments, or continue to disrupt the conversation risk having all of their comments deleted. Please remember to quote the person(s) to whom you are replying to preserve continuity of this seed. Any use of the phrase "Trump Derangement Syndrome" or the TDS acronym in a comment will be deleted.


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Kavika
Professor Principal
1  seeder  Kavika     last year

There is an old Indian saying, ''Be proud your an Indian but be careful who you tell''.

Let's have an adult discussion of the pros and cons of the article. 

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Participates
1.1  1stwarrior  replied to  Kavika @1    last year

So true - as my grandmother and mother, both born and raised in MS would tell us "You're Chickasaw Indian - be very proud, but don't tell anyone 'cause they'll hurt you."  And, throughout my childhood in MS, many of us did get hurt - physically, psychologically and emotionally.  Hell, there were even times when we couldn't get a job because we were those "Red N****rs".

IMO, another good link to look at and follow up with would be 

Why the jump in the Native American population may be one of the hardest to explain

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
1.1.1  seeder  Kavika   replied to  1stwarrior @1.1    last year

We were called ''Timber N***ers or Plains N****ers.

I believe that the professor made a lot of assumptions that simply are not true or did not look into many aspects closely enough. 

There are wannabes for sure but they are, IMO a minute number

Good information in the link, 1st.

One of the professors comments about there isn't a lot of ex-patriots coming back to the US really she doesn't seem to get it. There are tens of thousands of Indians/indigenous that have immigrated from Mexico/Central America/Cuba/Venezuela that are now living in the US. In So. Cal that are large communities of Maya, Oaxaca  and Zapotec. 

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.1.2  devangelical  replied to  Kavika @1.1.1    last year

all the late 1700's NA's in my family was probably bred out of us by the 1900's, but I'm proud to say that my grand-daughter's mother/family is from peru and we're back to a respectable level of NA.

uh, if we happen to meet up in time later, don't give the guy trading you repeaters an arrow shirt. thx

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
1.1.3  seeder  Kavika   replied to  devangelical @1.1.2    last year
don't give the guy trading you repeaters an arrow shirt. thx

No problem..LOL

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
1.1.4  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  1stwarrior @1.1    last year

I got news for you 1st. Even in NYC, my dad was teased about being Indian. And you know whose family always got stuck playing the "bad guys".

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.1.5  devangelical  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.1.4    last year

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Participates
1.1.6  1stwarrior  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.1.4    last year

Can remember as kids "playing" cowboys and Indians - guess who was always the Indian and guess who always got killed first???

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
1.1.7  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  devangelical @1.1.5    last year

Those be my people!

btw, that happened to be one of my dad's favorite scenes ever. Most people don't know that there are more of us than they know. Think Robbie Robertson! 

btw... here is what he said about his background:

That phrase, “Be proud you’re an Indian, but be careful who you tell.” Did that impact you? 

Yeah, it did impact me. I never talked about my heritage very much. I tried talking about it when I was quite young going to school in Toronto when I was going to school in the Scarborough Bluffs. When I was growing up and people used to say, “Yeah, my parents are Italian or mine are Irish or mine came from England.” You would hear all these various backgrounds and they would say, “What about you?” And I tried saying, “Well, I’m part Indian and part Jewish.” “What?” [chuckles] Everybody just stopped and looked at me and it was almost like they were going to say, “You’re going to have wait in the car. Because [chuckles] they’re not going to allow you in wherever we’re going.”

Did you experience racism or anti-Semitism at all? You wrote about when you down South and the cops drove you guys out of town when you were eating with black musicians — racism you witnessed — but you don't talk about whether you experienced it. 

I experienced it in more of an undertoned way. And when I went from Canada down to the Mississippi Delta and I joined a group, Ronnie Hawkins and the Hawks, they were all from the south.  And they could not hardly comprehend somebody in this group of a heritage that was Jewish or North American Indian. That was surreal. So they just kind of let it go, but then there was, as I write it in the book, Ronnie Hawkins at one point says, “God, it was bad enough that we thought Robbie was a redskin; now we find out he’s a damn Jew on [chuckles] top of that.”

It didn’t prevent much, but there was an underlying tone. It just lived there. It didn’t get me in any trouble. But when I was a young kid in Toronto and going to school, after that I didn’t talk about it anymore. I didn’t talk about it for years. I just became Canadian and that's as much detail as I can give you.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
1.1.8  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  1stwarrior @1.1.6    last year
Can remember as kids "playing" cowboys and Indians - guess who was always the Indian and guess who always got killed first???

Like my dad, of course, you!

I never played but I got called Pocahontas a lot.

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
1.1.9  Right Down the Center  replied to  devangelical @1.1.5    last year

Needless to say that movie could never be made today.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
1.1.10  seeder  Kavika   replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.1.8    last year

Yup, for me it was living next to a ''sun down town'', segregated schools, if you were allowed into a store you were followed everywhere you went (all Indians are thieves ya know) and of course, the signs around town that read ''no dogs of Indians''. 

Joined the army and was stationed at Fort Benning, GA. In 1959 three of us went into town to the USO club and were refused entry because, Gasp, we were the wrong color.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.1.11  devangelical  replied to  Right Down the Center @1.1.9    last year
Needless to say that movie could never be made today.

sure it could. any mel brooks movie sells. those that wouldn't want to see it, wouldn't buy tickets.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.1.12  devangelical  replied to  Right Down the Center @1.1.9    last year

mel's movies aren't like those they have to show in churches because no movie theaters will screen them.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.1.13  devangelical  replied to  devangelical @1.1.12    last year

mel doesn't do comedy for closed minds.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.1.14  devangelical  replied to  devangelical @1.1.13    last year

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
2  Bob Nelson    last year

What is the rule?

A single drop?

Majority?

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
2.1  seeder  Kavika   replied to  Bob Nelson @2    last year

If you speaking of tribal enrollment there are different requirements by tribes but you cannot BS or lie your way into it. If it's on the census which this article seems to be there is no requirement to self-identify as native.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
2.1.2  Bob Nelson  replied to  Kavika @2.1    last year

It seems that many who did not previously self-identify as NA are now doing so. I don't suppose that's "open" to just anyone. OTOH, I suppose that some of the smaller tribes are happy to have newcomers.

Not simple...

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
2.1.3  seeder  Kavika   replied to  Bob Nelson @2.1.2    last year

IMO, the number of wannabes are a limited number but the professor missed and really misfired on some of her comments. As I stated in another comment;

One of the professors comments about there isn't a lot of ex-patriots coming back to the US really she doesn't seem to get it. There are tens of thousands of Indians/indigenous that have immigrated from Mexico/Central America/Cuba/Venezuelathat are now living in the US. In So. Cal that are large communities of Maya, Oaxaca  andZapotec. There thousands more from Central America to add to that number. During the pandemic huge numbers of NA enrolled with there respective tribes, 100,000 with the Navajo alone. Indians are not only from the US and Canada. 

Each tribe has its requirements to become enrolled and there isn't any way to fake being Indian or from that tribe.

All tribes want their numbers enlarged it gives them a greater voice but all want the real deal Indians from their tribe.

 

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
2.1.4  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Kavika @2.1.3    last year

My tribe goes by percentage. If you are less than 1/8th you can not enroll. It's sad for me, since my daughters are 1/16th, but them be the rules.

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
2.1.5  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @2.1.4    last year

My maternal grandmother said she was one half Chiricahua Apache. The problem was that she grew up in Mexico at a time when no tribal records were kept. As such, she had no way other than verbally to prove that. She had no tribal contact which is sad to me. I have no way of proving my NA heritage other to spend money on a DNA screen if only to prove to myself and my daughter and grandkids.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
2.1.6  seeder  Kavika   replied to  Ed-NavDoc @2.1.5    last year
I have no way of proving my NA heritage other to spend money on a DNA screen if only to prove to myself and my daughter and grandkids.

Do the DNA test it's $99 and if only for your self satisfaction and for your grandkids to establish a link to past history in your family and create a new link that they may find exciting.

Some years back a friend of mine was told his grandfather was Santee Dakota Sioux but had no proof than the DNA testing became available and he took the test. Of course, the DNA testing cannot tell you what tribe it proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that he had a huge amount of native blood, a bit over 50% if I remember correctly so more than just his grandfather had native blood. Through the testing he was able to connect with rellies that were also Santee Dakota and it opened a whole new chapter to his and his family's life. From those rellies he learned many things that he had no idea existed in his family. 

I was with him the first time that he met a rellie that was Santee Dakota in MN. After the introduction his rellie said to him, pointing at me, that the Sioux and Ojibwe were mortal enemies for hundreds of years. The look on his face was priceless. His own cousin was giving him a shot, which is pretty common for Indians. Of course, it just took off from there. At the end I had to let him know that we were also allies at times and there was much inter marriage between the nations. 

I also had to let him know that the name Sioux was given to them by the Ojibwe and translates to ''little snakes''...

As a side note the town I was born in, Warroad, MN. is named after the battles between the Santee Sioux and the Ojibwe over the wild rice fields in Lake of the Woods. 

So, finding out his heritage opened up a whole new world for him and his family. Surely worth the $99.

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Participates
2.1.7  1stwarrior  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @2.1.4    last year

Ours goes by having a link in the family rolls with direct ties to the Rolls established when the SE Tribes/Nations were relocated to OK. Some folks can simply do a genealogical check against the names on the rolls and the names of their immediate families to match that tie.  The Nations doesn't use the Dawes rolls - they use the rolls written when they were either leaving the SE or when they arrived in OK in the mid-1800's.

To me, it's kinda funny, in a way.  I had the DNA testing done by FamilyTreeDNA and MyHeritage and came up with 'bout 26 1st/2nd/3rd cousin links but no names.  The funny part is that my wife is from Venezuela and we did her testing and found she has direct links to 6 U.S. tribes/nations even though her family sez they don't have no "northern" bloodlines.  Now we're trying to track those lines.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
2.1.8  Trout Giggles  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @2.1.5    last year

Spend the money on the DNA test, Ed. Mr Giggles and I did and it was worth every penny. His heritage is rich with NA, Spanish, Arab, African, and French Blood.

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
2.1.9  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Trout Giggles @2.1.8    last year

Pretty sure I will do so on the 1st of March when I get paid.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
2.1.10  Split Personality  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @2.1.9    last year

It's well worth the affirmation and the surprises.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
2.1.11  devangelical  replied to  Split Personality @2.1.10    last year

my aunt from texas had a very difficult time dealing with some of the DNA discovered in our family.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
2.1.12  Sean Treacy  replied to  devangelical @2.1.11    last year

Yes, it was something to watch the black nationalist/domestic terrorist Angela Davis (who like many other left wing terrorists was rewarded for her crimes by being given taxpayer dollars to pollute the minds of students) find out she was descended from someone on the mayflower and a slave owning lawyer.   She did not process it well. 

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
2.1.13  seeder  Kavika   replied to  Sean Treacy @2.1.12    last year

So she found out her ancestor on the Mayflower was a racist who probably raped a black woman. It's always good to find out the scum bucket racist in ones family. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.14  Texan1211  replied to  Kavika @2.1.13    last year
So she found out her ancestor on the Mayflower was a racist who probably raped a black woman.

Probably?

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
2.1.15  Split Personality  replied to  Sean Treacy @2.1.12    last year
the black nationalist/domestic terrorist Angela Davis (who like many other left wing terrorists was rewarded for her crimes by being given taxpayer dollars to pollute the minds of students)

I'm sure you can enumerate her convictions, correct?

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
2.1.16  devangelical  replied to  Split Personality @2.1.15    last year

LOL

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
2.1.17  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  devangelical @2.1.16    last year

Did you really LoL?

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
2.1.19  devangelical  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @2.1.17    last year

yup.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
2.1.20  Split Personality  replied to  devangelical @2.1.19    last year

So did we!

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
2.1.21  devangelical  replied to  Split Personality @2.1.20    last year

top water bait like that works best in shallow water...

 
 
 
pat wilson
Professor Participates
3  pat wilson    last year
And as more and more people reject whiteness in favor of indigeneity, they do so at the expense of tribal sovereignty.

If a certain percentage of the "race shifters" are in fact determined to have NA ancestry wouldn't that actually strengthen tribal sovereignty ?

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
3.1  seeder  Kavika   replied to  pat wilson @3    last year

IMO, the wannabes do nothing to enhance the tribe and their sovereignty. They generally know little or nothing about being Indian our culture, language etc. They are a distraction that contribute nothing, pat.

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Participates
3.2  1stwarrior  replied to  pat wilson @3    last year

According to most tribes/Nations and the Feds, if they're not "Members" of the tribes, they can't participate in the governmental functions such as voting, etc. which doesn't add to the political strength (sovereignty) of the tribes/Nations.

 
 
 
MonsterMash
Sophomore Quiet
4  MonsterMash    last year

Many of those that claim to be NA are like the ones that claim to Vietnam Vets because they think it's cool when in actuality it's stolen Valor.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
4.1  seeder  Kavika   replied to  MonsterMash @4    last year

I never thought of that anology but it hits the mark.

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Participates
4.2  1stwarrior  replied to  MonsterMash @4    last year

Wouldn't say many, but definitely some.  I met more "faux-Indians" when I was stationed in San Fran - but, I met a helluvalot more who were involved with tribal/nation emphasis in their day-to-day living and way of life.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
4.3  JBB  replied to  MonsterMash @4    last year

All of the branches of my family on both sides immigrated from Tennessee and Mississippi through Texas into Old Greer County Texas, which is now the Southwestern corner of Oklahoma comprising current day Greer, Jackson,  Harmon, Cotton and Tilman Counties, in the years right after the Civil War.

It took me some digging and sixty years to fully understand that what really happened under the sheets and what someone wrote down in the family Bible or told the local census taker were not always the same.

People generations later are now less likely to be ashamed of the real whole truths of their heritage. Assimilation was easier for many than being the odd ones out and admitting our whole truths to the whole world. 

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
4.3.1  Bob Nelson  replied to  JBB @4.3    last year

Fascinating. Have you had a DNA examination? 

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
4.3.2  seeder  Kavika   replied to  JBB @4.3    last year

As I said in my opening the Indian saying of ''Be proud your an Indian, but be careful who you tell.''.

Indians had to lie about a lot of things to get a job or to not suffer the discrimination that existed. As you said, today more and more are coming out so to speak with their true identity. There is also the lost generation where Indian children were forcibly taken from their families and given to white families and decades later they find out who they really are, they are known as the ''Lost Birds'' to us.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
4.3.3  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Kavika @4.3.2    last year

It makes me sad to hear "Lost Birds". The children are always the future.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
4.3.4  JBB  replied to  Bob Nelson @4.3.1    last year

Yes, 23 and Me, and several other members of the family have also. Though we are mostly of Northern European extraction there are some Native and Mediterranean genetic groups mixed in for which there is no explanation in birth or census records. My theory, based mainly on physical appearances, is that one of my 2X great grandfathers was secretly Jewish and had a completely off the record NA second wife.

There was no acknowledgment of those cultural heritages in my verbal family history or upbringing, though there were clues...

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
4.3.5  JBB  replied to  Kavika @4.3.2    last year

A cousin, "Uncle Pinky", was left on my great uncle's porch and was begrudgingly raises by his wife. He graduated college and law school and became a famous litigator defending famous clients. Most families had some inperfect members...

 
 
 
shona1
PhD Quiet
5  shona1    last year

Arvo..yes we have similar instances where people claim to be Koori and they have red hair blue eyes and claim Koori status...and usually stirring the pot over an issue...

Not uncommon for the Kooris to dispute them and question..which mob are you from? 

However the Kooris have their own process to sort them out...many rellies in the mob who know of their family connections from generations, some have birth/ marriage certificates from way back when and I know they do and can resort to DNA...it is quite amazing how they can trace it back...

To me, wanna be's just show complete and utter disrespect to the First Nations people of which ever land on this earth and totally disgust me.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
5.1  seeder  Kavika   replied to  shona1 @5    last year

Well said.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Expert
6  sandy-2021492    last year

I imagine that some wannabes are like me - there are family legends that say they have NA ancestry, but no concrete evidence of such.  My mom says that my grandmother always claimed that her grandmother (my mom's great-grandmother and my great-great-grandmother) was Cherokee, with two Cherokee parents.  But I can't confirm that via research into our family tree, and none of us have taken a DNA test to confirm.  Mom didn't know her great-grandmother, so she has only Grandma's stories to go by.  But it's pretty much been accepted as true in Mom's family that we have NA ancestry, never mind that we have a fair number of gingers, and none of us can go without sunscreen without paying for it.  

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
6.1  seeder  Kavika   replied to  sandy-2021492 @6    last year

There are many people that have family stories about being Indian, most people believe that they are true, some are and some aren't. A DNA test will determine if it's true or not. Inexpensive but it cannot tell you what tribe only general statement that you have indigenous blood to a certain degree.

I don't have your problem since the sun only makes me darker...Ginger I'm not...

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Expert
6.1.1  sandy-2021492  replied to  Kavika @6.1    last year

I'm not ginger, either, but I have a lot of red-headed cousins on my mom's side.  I have dark hair and fair skin.  Of Mom's siblings, some had brown hair, some dark blonde or strawberry blonde, and all had fair skin.  Of the ancestry I've been able to trace, we have quite a few Scottish, Irish, English, and German ancestors, and we look like it.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
6.1.2  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Kavika @6.1    last year
.Ginger I'm not...

HEY!! LOL.

btw... the ginger comes from Odesa, Ukraine.

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Participates
6.1.3  1stwarrior  replied to  Kavika @6.1    last year

Darker :-)

When I was 19, I attended a Jr. College in NE MS.  Dad was active duty Army and was stationed at Ft. Leavenworth, KS.  During the summers I was a lifeguard at the O'Club and copiously used baby oil and iodine as my tan enhancer and I would, and did, get really dark.  So, summer was over and I traipsed back down to MS for the fall session of Sophomore year.

Standing in line for registration, the Dean of Education walked by, stopped and said in his loud authoritarian Southern drawl "Boy - we don't allow yore kind in our schools".  I and the group I was with, looked at him and said "What???".  He put his face almost on mine and said, loudly again, in his best Foghorn Leghorn voice "Boy, I said we don't allow no N****rs in our schools.  Now you get outta here before I have you thrown outta here".  (This was 1963, so you can guess what the race relations were like in MS at that time.)

I just grinned, lifted my shirt, exposed 2 inches of skin below my jean's beltline and his jaw slammed down on the floor.  Without breaking stride, he said "Well, you can go ahead and register but you still a Red N***** and I'll be watching you."

Fine state to grow up in, eh?

Still have that tanning issue jrSmiley_10_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
6.1.4  devangelical  replied to  Kavika @6.1    last year
Ginger I'm not...

wasn't there some tribal lore about red headed settler captives...

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
6.1.5  seeder  Kavika   replied to  devangelical @6.1.4    last year
wasn't there some tribal lore about red headed settler captives...

Actually, there are a couple of red-headed Indians. Both top rated boxers and one was a world champion. 

Danny ''Little Red'' Lopez was the featherweight champion of the world and rates as one of the hardest punches of all time in any weight division. 

His older brother Ernie "Indian Red'' Lopez was never a world champion but was a top-rated welterweight for years and fought Jose Napolse, one of the greatest welterweights and in the Boxing Hall of Fame. Jose stopped Indian Red in the 15th round in a classic. It was said by many experts in boxing that Indian Red was a very good fighter and that Jose was an all-time great. 

Ernie Indian Red is in the California Boxing Hall of Fame and ''Little Red'' is in the International Boxing Hall of Fame.

The brothers were born and raised on the Ute Indian reservation in Fort Duchesne, Utah.

I saw both brothers fight many times at the Olympic Auditorium, 18th and Grand, Los Angeles.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
6.1.6  devangelical  replied to  Kavika @6.1.5    last year

I realized after posting that reply last night that I was thinking about the movie little big man, and that the perspective in it was probably from a manufactured misconception by hollywood.

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Silent
7  charger 383    last year

Census takers were supposed to record what they were told.  

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
7.1  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  charger 383 @7    last year

True enough. 

 
 
 
Hallux
PhD Principal
8  Hallux    last year

Not to be overly snarky, but "Race shifters"? Do they have their own pronouns ... ? This article also appeared on a radical site replete with racist articles that I will not link to.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
8.1  seeder  Kavika   replied to  Hallux @8    last year

I imagine that it's published in a number of places including Britannica (which it is). She makes a point, (there are wannabes) I believe that as I stated in my comments that she didn't do her homework if she believe that the Indigenous population didn't have its growth because of ''race shifters''.. I can see where some racist group would jump on this for their own benefit.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
8.1.1  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Kavika @8.1    last year

Here is something interesting. While looking into this population question I found out that the population on the rez, is down, while nationwide it is up. I would have to think that a lot of people are self-identifying as Indian on the census. There does appear to be some migration from the south, but not enough for the sudden increase.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
8.1.2  seeder  Kavika   replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @8.1.1    last year

The migration from the Mexico and Central America of indigenous is huge. The Oaxaca community in LA is close to 250,000 people alone there are many other communities from Mexico and Central America including the Maya and Zapotec.

During the pandemic, many tribes saw a jump in their enrollment numbers, and the Navajo alone increased close to 100,000.

The immigration from Central America and the majority are indigenous is in the millions.

The Indian population on the rez has been going down for years for years around residents, but many that don't live on the rez visit on a regular basis almost like part-time residents.

 
 
 
SteevieGee
Professor Silent
9  SteevieGee    last year

My Ex wife's family always claimed NA ancestry but when my son had his dna done there wasn't anything there.  He's almost entirely English and northern European.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
9.1  seeder  Kavika   replied to  SteevieGee @9    last year

 I believe that happens with a lot of families, family lore vs DNA.

 
 
 
shona1
PhD Quiet
9.1.1  shona1  replied to  Kavika @9.1    last year

Morning..and sone people have found out they aren't related to who they are meant to be either ..

Quite a few family skeletons have fallen out of the cupboards with DNA  over the years..

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
9.1.2  seeder  Kavika   replied to  shona1 @9.1.1    last year

I'm sure that there are many instances that families have hidden the results when they found out things that were, shall we say, embarrassing.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
9.1.3  devangelical  replied to  Kavika @9.1.2    last year

my dad's side of the family lost touch with reality when african DNA was revealed in ours. then they lost touch again when 3 LGBTQ's came out of the devout mackerel snapper side. bummer.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
9.1.4  Trout Giggles  replied to  devangelical @9.1.3    last year

Mr G's brothers lost it when his DNA revealed the African and Arab blood.

Seriously what did they expect? The Moors invaded Spain, mixed with the people there and well...DNA is created.

But I really shouldn't expect his brothers to know that. If it ain't football or nekkid girls they couldn't care less

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
9.1.5  devangelical  replied to  Trout Giggles @9.1.4    last year

... huh? what? sorry, I forgot what we were talking about when you said nekkid girls...

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
9.2  Trout Giggles  replied to  SteevieGee @9    last year

Happened to me, too. I wish I could tell my family to shut up about their NA heritage

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
9.2.1  devangelical  replied to  Trout Giggles @9.2    last year

I think it's the residual effects of a nation created by social misfits. any claims of having infamous or romanticized types of people(s) from past eras in your background is street cred among peers.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
9.2.2  devangelical  replied to  Trout Giggles @9.2    last year

my mom has been saying how twins and redheads run in the family for the last 3 generations of pregnancies. current score on both, zero.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Expert
9.2.3  sandy-2021492  replied to  devangelical @9.2.2    last year

They actually do run in my family.  There were two sets of twins among my grandmother's siblings, and one of my cousins on that side had twins.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
9.2.4  devangelical  replied to  sandy-2021492 @9.2.3    last year

one of the twins is usually evil...

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
9.2.5  devangelical  replied to  devangelical @9.2.4    last year

... which is a dynamic I used to really like when I was a lot younger.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
10  seeder  Kavika     last year

Speaking of DNA this is an interesting article. 

Blackfeet man’s DNA is oldest in Americas

 
 
 
Gsquared
Professor Principal
10.1  Gsquared  replied to  Kavika @10    last year

That is really amazing.  Thanks for the very interesting link, Kavika.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
10.1.1  seeder  Kavika   replied to  Gsquared @10.1    last year

It does say that we, Indians have been here forever.

 
 
 
Gsquared
Professor Principal
10.1.2  Gsquared  replied to  Kavika @10.1.1    last year
we, Indians have been here forever

I believe that.  Almost forever.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
10.1.3  seeder  Kavika   replied to  Gsquared @10.1.2    last year
Almost forever.

You don't want to argue that point with my nookomis (grandmother) jrSmiley_2_smiley_image.png

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
10.1.4  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Kavika @10.1.3    last year

That is amazing! 17,000 years! He was here before the pyramids were built! 

Now stick that in your pipe and smoke it!

 
 
 
Gsquared
Professor Principal
10.1.5  Gsquared  replied to  Kavika @10.1.3    last year

For sure I don't.  

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
10.1.6  devangelical  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @10.1.4    last year

okay! >cough< >cough<

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
10.1.7  devangelical  replied to  Kavika @10.1.1    last year
Indians have been here forever.

... and it only took white people 200 years to fuck it all up.

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Participates
10.1.8  1stwarrior  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @10.1.4    last year

Careful how you say that :-)

256

Best dart man in town.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
11  seeder  Kavika     last year

When we speak of Indigenous in the US and the huge increase in number what is not taken into consideration by the author of the article is that there are over 500,000 Maya living here which would make them the largest tribe in the US by a long way. There are 250,000 indigenous Oaxaca living in the US and at least 200,000 Zapoltec, when you add in people from many other indigenous tribes from Mexico, central and south America the numbers skyrocket.

If the US recognized the Michif or also known as Metis, as Canada does here in the US you could add at least 50,000 more.

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Participates
11.1  1stwarrior  replied to  Kavika @11    last year

From the world bank -

The latest available census data shows that in 2010 there were about 42 million indigenous people in Latin America, making up nearly 8 percent of the total population. Mexico, Guatemala, Peru, and Bolivia had the largest populations, with more than 80 percent of the regional total, or 34 million.

Latin America is home to an estimated 41.8 million to 53.4 million Indigenous people according to several resources published in the last seven years. 5 A 2015 World Bank report acknowledges the gap that may exist between official and unofficial data: “official data on Indigenous people are not conclusive, as many technical and sociological difficulties persist in census data collection. Other sources based on estimates and unofficial data refer to 50 million Indigenous inhabitants in Latin America (about 10 percent of the total population). For this World Bank report, however, we will refer to the official—albeit imperfect—numbers provided by the national censuses [41.81 million].”

I bring this up because not a whole lot of folks understand the large number of Indigenous Natives living in Central and South America.  Many of the relatives of the SA/CA populations who arrived in the U.S. 10 to 15 years ago did not have their relatives list their ethnic background, pretty much, based on fears - not being accepted, pursued by the Feds/states, becoming a target of serious racial discrimination, etc..  Those relatives are now feeling safer and more comfortable with the places in the communities they live in and are finally acknowledging who/what they are.

IMO, that information gives more credence to what the author's are attempting to say.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
11.1.1  seeder  Kavika   replied to  1stwarrior @11.1    last year
IMO, that information gives more credence to what the author's are attempting to say.

I don't see that the author is trying to make that point at all, 1st. She never mentions the immigration of indigenous people to the US, does not take into consideration the large number of Native Americans that enrolled during the pandemic, and makes a sarcastic comment about returning ex pats. To me, she is trying to pin the increase in our numbers to wannabes and their effect on the tribes.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
11.1.2  devangelical  replied to  Kavika @11.1.1    last year

my daughter in laws family would rather claim having a mixed black heritage than their inca one.

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Participates
11.1.3  1stwarrior  replied to  devangelical @11.1.2    last year

As does my wife's.

 
 
 
Veronica
Professor Guide
12  Veronica    last year

Great article (seed - whichever).  I have traced my lineage back to Western Europe (mostly the British Isles).  The Scot/Irish in me gives me my Celtic heritage which fosters my Wiccan faith.  If people truly trace their lines back to NA tribes and they are serious in moving along that line I hope they learn about all there is to know about it and practice in true faith fashion.  The learning never stops when you have lost so much of your heritage.  I hope they keep digging as I am still digging in to the Celts.

 
 
 
afrayedknot
Junior Quiet
12.1  afrayedknot  replied to  Veronica @12    last year

“The learning never stops…”

Only when we encourage learning.

If we deny that aspect of our fractured history, past becomes prologue.  

If we are unable to learn from past mistakes and simply pass it along…either comfortable in our ignorance or worse, comfortable in our subjugation, not a thing will be changed, for the betterment of us all.  

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
12.1.1  seeder  Kavika   replied to  afrayedknot @12.1    last year
Only when we encourage learning. If we deny that aspect of our fractured history, past becomes prologue.  

Exactly, afrayedknot.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
13  Ender    last year

No one could ever mistake me for what I am, white as a ghost. Funny though, even as a teenager I had the utmost respect for the Indigenous people. The way they could live in harmony with the land. Not to mention I always thought were one of the most beautiful people.

 
 
 
afrayedknot
Junior Quiet
13.1  afrayedknot  replied to  Ender @13    last year

“…live in harmony…”

….that is the lesson. 

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
13.1.1  seeder  Kavika   replied to  afrayedknot @13.1    last year

Or as we (NAs) say ''walk the red road''

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
14  seeder  Kavika     last year

As I mentioned in a couple of my comments of the enrollment in tribes has really increased with COVID. 

This is the latest from the Cherokee Nation.

The enrollment of the  has surpassed 450,000 enrolled tribal citizens for the first time in its history,

 
 
 
Gsquared
Professor Principal
14.1  Gsquared  replied to  Kavika @14    last year

So, what is really going on?

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
14.1.1  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Gsquared @14.1    last year
So, what is really going on?

Lines and picket signs
Don't punish me with brutality
Talk to me
So you can see
Oh, what's going on (What's going on)
What's going on (What's going on)
What's going on (What's going on)
What's going on (What's going on)

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
14.1.2  seeder  Kavika   replied to  Gsquared @14.1    last year

As I've stated in a few other comments, from what I understand this article seems to say that the the increase in NA population is more from wannabes than actual facts. I think she is wrong, yes there are wannabe but what this article totally left out is the immigration from south and central America and also from Cuba and Venezuela I stated some of the numbers from just three tribes and it's at a minimum of over a million people. The next point is that because of the pandemic, the number of Indians that have enrolled in their tribe is huge. There are many reasons that Indians don't didn't enroll in their tribes but the pandemic changed that. There are also numerous that never would tell anyone that they were Indian, distrust of the government, fear of not being accepted or not being able to find work to name a few and these are valid reasons as all have been proven to be true. 

I was surprised that the author who claims to be mixed blood with her father was Choctaw but never stated that she was an enrolled member of the tribe. 

It should be noted during the ''adoption era'' when Indian children were taken and given to white families and never found out that they were Indian until much later in life and once they discover it they start identifying as Indian and claiming it on the census. The second was the ''Indian Boarding School'' when the same thing happened to Indian children.

You add all of these factors and the increase in indigenous people in the US puts it in a much different light.

As a side note, there are 25,000 to 30,000 Oaxaca living in Georgia. I'm sure that many people know that and another thing is that a huge number of farm workers in all states are indigenous.

Hope that gives you a better view of this subject. 

Here is something for you to google, Soloman Bibo.

 
 
 
Gsquared
Professor Principal
14.1.4  Gsquared  replied to  Kavika @14.1.2    last year

There was so much material to absorb.  You've summarized it perfectly.  Thanks!

 
 
 
Gsquared
Professor Principal
14.1.5  Gsquared  replied to  Kavika @14.1.2    last year

I looked him up.  Solomon Bibo was quite an adventurer and pioneer.  And he was from one of our tribes and married into one of yours.  Haha.  Very interesting story.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
16  seeder  Kavika     last year

In 1971 an ad about the environment was aired and became quite famous. Most people that saw the ad thought that Iron Eyes Cody was Native American. In reality, he wasn't Indian at all. He was an Italian named Espera  de Corti. 

NCAI Acquires “Crying Indian” and Quickly Retires Him

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
16.1  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Kavika @16    last year

Just some of the Magic from liberal Hollywood.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
16.1.1  JBB  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @16.1    last year

Are you going to blame liberals for William H Hayes Commission?

original

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
16.1.2  seeder  Kavika   replied to  Drinker of the Wry @16.1    last year

Actually, at that time period in Hollywood, it was transitioning from conservative to liberal and macho man John Wayne republican was hugely popular even with his ''I'm a white supremacist'' interview with Playboy Magazine in 1971 where he made comments very disrespectful of LBGT and Indians.

So it seems that when Hollywood was conservative, they too were unaccepting of minorities.

Let's discuss the article moving forward.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
16.1.3  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Kavika @16.1.2    last year

[deleted]

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Participates
17  1stwarrior    last year

FYI - 

  • The following are the 10 largest Indian tribes: Navajo Nation (399,567), Cherokee Nation (292,555), Choctaw Nation (255,677), Chippewa (214,026), Sioux (207,684), Blackfeet (159,394), White Mountain Apache (15,791), Muscogee Nation (108,368), Haudenosaunee Nations (114,568), Blackfeet Nation (17,321). 6  
  • As of 2021, the largest Alaskan Native communities were the Yup’ik (33,900) and Inupiat (33,400). Other large AN groups include the Tlingit-Haida (26,100), Alaska Athabaskan (22,500), Aleut (19,300), and Tsimschian (3,800). 7  
  • Approximately 22% of AI/AN populations live on tribal lands. 8

The 10 states with the largest percentage of AI/AN people in 2020 were:

  • Alaska (21.9%)
  • Oklahoma (16.0%)
  • New Mexico (12.4%)
  • South Dakota ( 11.1 %)
  • Montana (9.3%)
  • North Dakota (7.2%)
  • Arizona (6.3%)
  • Wyoming (4.8%)
  • Oregon (4.4%)
  • Washington ( 4.1 %)

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
17.1  seeder  Kavika   replied to  1stwarrior @17    last year

They are going to have to do another count of each tribe's population. Since the Pandemic the number have been skyrocketing and the Cherokee just announced that the number of enrolled members has jumped to close to 400,000 and the Navajo are experiencing the same type of increase. What they are going to find is many tribes have gained many new enrolled members. 

Some of the numbers seem strange. It shows the White Mountain Apache at 15,791 but that is only one band of the Apache there are numerous bands that number over 100,000.

When the border was drawn between the US and Canada it cut the OIjibwe tribes close in half. There are another 160,000 plus living in Canada in addition to the number in the US. 

The largest tribe in North America would be the Metis at over 600,000 with more living in the US but Metis are not recognized in the US, but on Turtle Mountain Rez in ND the Metis live there with the Ojibwe and the same at the Little Shell Band of Ojibwe in MT. The US counts the Metis on those reservations as Ojibwe...LMAO don't ask.

The other thing that is odd is that it shows the Haudenosaunee Nations as one population. In fact, they are six different tribes with an agreement/alliance between them they are not the same people. If tribes were all counted that way by alliances then the numbers would change big time. The Ojibwe are part of the Three Fire Nations so you would have to count the Odana and the Potawatomi tribes to the Ojibwe number.

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Participates
17.1.1  1stwarrior  replied to  Kavika @17.1    last year

Yeah - I was coming back to make a clarification.  The figures they are using are the BIA "roll" numbers, not the census figures.  As we are aware, the tribes/nations maintain their population figures based on membership - which are what the figures NCOA are using.

As an example, my tribes lists 38,000 tribal members - but, the census, very incorrectly, lists 72,000 folks who have "claimed" to be Chickasaw.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
17.1.2  seeder  Kavika   replied to  1stwarrior @17.1.1    last year

1st, the numbers I quoted are the ''enrolled'' members of the tribes, that is why I said that they have to update their records. 

 
 

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