A Lab Leak in China Most Likely Origin of Covid Pandemic, Energy Department Says
Category: News & Politics
Via: vic-eldred • last year • 86 commentsBy: Michael R. Gordon and Warren P. Strobel (WSJ)
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
WASHINGTON—The U.S. Energy Department has concluded that the Covid pandemic most likely arose from a laboratory leak, according to a classified intelligence report recently provided to the White House and key members of Congress.
The shift by the Energy Department, which previously was undecided on how the virus emerged, is noted in an update to a 2021 document by Director of National Intelligence Avril Haines's office.
The new report highlights how different parts of the intelligence community have arrived at disparate judgments about the pandemic’s origin . The Energy Department now joins the Federal Bureau of Investigation in saying the virus likely spread via a mishap at a Chinese laboratory. Four other agencies, along with a national intelligence panel, still judge that it was likely the result of a natural transmission , and two are undecided.
The Energy Department’s conclusion is the result of new intelligence and is significant because the agency has considerable scientific expertise and oversees a network of U.S. national laboratories, some of which conduct advanced biological research.
The Energy Department made its judgment with “low confidence,” according to people who have read the classified report.
The FBI previously came to the conclusion that the pandemic was likely the result of a lab leak in 2021 with “moderate confidence” and still holds to this view.
The FBI employs a cadre of microbiologists, immunologists and other scientists and is supported by the National Bioforensic Analysis Center, which was established at Fort Detrick, Md., in 2004 to analyze anthrax and other possible biological threats.
U.S. officials declined to give details on the fresh intelligence and analysis that led the Energy Department to change its position. They added that while the Energy Department and the FBI each say an unintended lab leak is most likely, they arrived at those conclusions for different reasons.
The updated document underscores how intelligence officials are still putting together the pieces on how Covid-19 emerged. More than one million Americans have died in the pandemic that began more than three years ago.
The National Intelligence Council, which conducts long-term strategic analysis, and four agencies, which officials declined to identify, still assess with “low confidence” that the virus came about through natural transmission from an infected animal, according to the updated report.
The Central Intelligence Agency and another agency that officials wouldn’t name remain undecided between the lab-leak and natural-transmission theories, the people who have read the classified report said.
Despite the agencies’ differing analyses, the update reaffirmed an existing consensus between them that Covid-19 wasn’t the result of a Chinese biological-weapons program, the people who have read the classified report said.
A senior U.S. intelligence official confirmed that the intelligence community had conducted the update, whose existence hasn’t previously been reported. This official added that it was done in light of new intelligence, further study of academic literature and consultation with experts outside government.
The update, which is less than five pages, wasn’t requested by Congress. But lawmakers, particularly House and Senate Republicans, are pursuing their own investigations into the origins of the pandemic and are pressing the Biden administration and the intelligence community for more information.
Officials didn’t say if an unclassified version of the update would be issued.
U.S. national-security adviser Jake Sullivan, asked about the Journal’s reporting Sunday, said President Biden had repeatedly directed every part of the intelligence community to invest in trying to discern as much as possible about the origins of the pandemic. “President Biden specifically requested that the national labs, which are part of the Department of Energy, be brought into this assessment because he wants to put every tool at use to be able to figure out what happened here,” Mr. Sullivan said during an appearance on CNN.
There are a “variety of views in the intelligence community,” Mr. Sullivan added. “A number of them have said they just don’t have enough information.”
The Covid-19 virus first circulated in Wuhan, China, no later than November 2019, according to the U.S. 2021 intelligence report. The pandemic’s origin has been the subject of vigorous, sometimes partisan debate among academics, intelligence experts and lawmakers.
David Relman, a Stanford University microbiologist who has argued for a dispassionate investigation into the pandemic’s beginnings, welcomed word of the updated findings.
“Kudos to those who are willing to set aside their preconceptions and objectively re-examine what we know and don’t know about Covid origins,” said Dr. Relman, who has served on several federal scientific-advisory boards. “My plea is that we not accept an incomplete answer or give up because of political expediency.”
An Energy Department spokesman declined to discuss details of its assessment but wrote in a statement that the agency “continues to support the thorough, careful, and objective work of our intelligence professionals in investigating the origins of COVID-19, as the President directed.”
The FBI declined to comment.
China, which has placed limits on investigations by the World Health Organization, has disputed that the virus could have leaked from one of its labs and has suggested it emerged outside China.
The Chinese government didn’t respond to requests for comment about whether there has been any change in its views on the origins of Covid-19.
Some scientists argue that the virus probably emerged naturally and leapt from an animal to a human, the same pathway for outbreaks of previously unknown pathogens.
Intelligence analysts who have supported that view give weight to “the precedent of past novel infectious disease outbreaks having zoonotic origins,” the flourishing trade in a diverse set of animals that are susceptible to such infections, and their conclusion that Chinese officials didn’t have foreknowledge of the virus, the 2021 report said.
Yet no confirmed animal source for Covid-19 has been identified. The lack of an animal source, and the fact that Wuhan is the center of China’s extensive coronavirus research, has led some scientists and U.S. officials to argue that a lab leak is the best explanation for the pandemic’s beginning.
U.S. State Department cables written in 2018 and internal Chinese documents show that there were persistent concerns about China’s biosafety procedures, which have been cited by proponents of the lab-leak hypothesis.
Wuhan is home to an array of laboratories, many of which were built or expanded as a result of China’s traumatic experience with the initial severe acute respiratory syndrome, or SARS, epidemic beginning in 2002. They include campuses of the Wuhan Institute of Virology, the Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention, and the Wuhan Institute of Biological Products, which produces vaccines.
An outbreak at a seafood market in Wuhan had initially been thought to be the source of the virus, but some scientists and Chinese public-health officials now see it as an example of community spread rather than the place where the first human infection occurred, the 2021 intelligence community report said.
In May 2021, President Biden told the intelligence community to step up its efforts to investigate the origins of Covid-19 and directed that the review draw on work by the U.S.’s national laboratories and other agencies. Congress, he said, would be kept informed of that effort.
The October 2021 report said that there was a consensus that Covid-19 wasn’t the result of a Chinese biological-weapons program . But it didn’t settle the debate over whether it resulted from a lab leak or came from an animal, saying that more information was needed from the Chinese authorities.
The U.S. intelligence community is made up of 18 agencies, including offices at the Energy, State and Treasury departments. Eight of them participated in the Covid-origins review, along with the National Intelligence Council.
Before that report, the Energy Department’s Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory prepared a study in May 2020 concluding that a lab-leak hypothesis was plausible and deserved further investigation.
The debate over whether Covid-19 might have escaped from a laboratory has been fueled by U.S. intelligence that three researchers from the Wuhan Institute of Virology became sick enough in November 2019 that they sought hospital care .
A House Intelligence Committee report concluded last year that this disclosure didn’t strengthen either the lab-leak or the natural-origin theory as the researchers might have become sick with a seasonal flu. But some former U.S. officials say the sick researchers were involved in coronavirus research.
Lawmakers have sought to find out more about why the FBI assesses a lab leak was likely. In an Aug. 1 letter to FBI Director Christopher Wray, Sen. Roger Marshall, a Kansas Republican, requested that the FBI share the records of its investigation and asked if the bureau had briefed Mr. Biden on its findings.
In a Nov. 18 letter, FBI Assistant Director Jill Tyson said the agency couldn’t share those details because of Justice Department policy on preserving “the integrity of ongoing investigations.” She referred the senator to Ms. Haines’s office for information on what briefings were arranged for the president.
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There it is:
After all this time of the simple question being called a "conspiracy theory."
It turns out that it was just what Shi Zhengli said it was.
Are there any "critical thinkers" lurking out there?
since the virus barely killed more republicans than democrats, there's definitely more research and trials to be done. /s
Do you have evidence to support that claim?
Ah--never mind.
Read enough crap already today.
Well, you did request critical thinkers to respond but all you got was 1.1. Quite the opposite of critical thinking.
I suspect your "critical thinkers" phrasing is intended to jab me. In response, I note how you have a remarkable way of misremembering what took place. So here is an old comment that clearly states my position ... looks real different from the twisted nonsense you 'remembered'.
TiG @ 1.4.11 (from " The End Of The Line" by Vic Eldred ... 2 years ago )
And what say you now?
You still did not read what I wrote two years ago! You did not read it then (evidenced by your thread comments then) and clearly have not done so now.
Follow the facts to wherever they lead, Vic. Two years ago I stated it made logical sense that the virus infections started at the Wuhan center. I gave my reasons for this. (I had stated this to you many times before the comment I delivered.) The current findings suggest that Wuhan is the epicenter (a lab leak), but they are not definitive. Thus a critical thinker would factor that into one's assessment and raise the likelihood that Wuhan was the epicenter.
The remaining critical question is how the virus originated biologically. Was it artificial or natural? Was Wuhan conducting gain-of-function research that would yield the coronavirus? Was the USA government knowingly working with the lab to do gain-of-function research? We do not yet know this (and I still wonder if we ever will).
Now, what conclusions do you draw from this? (I suspect you have filled in the unknowns with conspiracy theory.)
I read it then and re-posting it has not improved it. You basically left open all possibilities.
What was my response to you then?
Yeah, Vic, one leaves open all possibilities that have not been shown to be false.
Then one assigns a likelihood to each possibility based on the available evidence.
That is what critical thinking involves.
Inserting conspiracy theories in place of unknowns is NOT critical thinking.
Yeah, TiG, just like one is supposed to be able to ask questions. Questions are not "conspiracy theories!"
No, questions in and of themselves are not ipso facto conspiracy theories.
But when someone asks questions such as ...
... they are expressing conspiracy theory via questions.
See?
Why don't you try and answer those questions?
Here are a few more:
Did Fauci lie about giving the Ok to gain-of-funtion research at the Wuhan Lab?
Do you accept Rochelle Walensky's apology for the pandemic response?
What do you think of Biden's covid mandates now?
Get it?
Show me the evidence that the NIH directly authorized gain-of-function research that would have lead to coronavirus at Wuhan Lab.
What, specifically, are you referring to? Which of her statements do you have in mind?
If you are referring to a vaccination mandate, I do not believe the government should ever force someone to be vaccinated. I am, however, in favor of imposing restrictions for unvaccinated people during an active pandemic. The former is arguably a violation of one's person (like forcing abortion). The latter is protecting society.
Your conspiracy theory that the Chinese government extemporaneously decided to infect the planet remains ridiculous no matter how many deflections you toss out.
We will probably never know the complete, true story because the CCP decided against transparency and real cooperation.
That has been my position. The CCP will naturally hide evidence of wrongdoing / incompetence on their part. In contrast to Vic's outrageous conspiracy theory where he claims the CCP does not care if they are seen as holding the smoking gun of the pandemic, the CCP does NOT want to have more blame placed on them for the pandemic. Obviously. Pretty much every nation would operate in a similar fashion.
I notice that you are ignoring the fact that more agencies say that came from the Wuhan market and not the lab.
Also, even the Energy department acknowledges that "IF" it came from the lab, it was not a modified virus, just one they had on hand to study that an employee accidentally got infected with.
Conspiracy theorists take any nibble as a total vindication. This is extreme confirmation bias that is as bogus as the conspiracy theory itself. This is what they have to do to perpetuate their nonsense. Just like the flat Earthers who take any little tidbit, distort it, amplify it and then claim evidence of a flat Earth. The cure for this is critical thinking.
Further, the conspiracy theory in question was NOT that the coronavirus might have escaped from the Wuhan lab. The conspiracy theory was that the coronavirus was intentionally made at the Wuhan lab backed by the USA. Another, even nuttier conspiracy theory, is that the CCP extemporaneously chose to infect the entire planet with a pandemic so as to cause Trump to lose and that they did not care if the entire planet saw them holding the smoking gun.
Further, the conspiracy theory in question was NOT that the coronavirus might have escaped from the Wuhan lab
this is pure gaslighting.
I expect to see a 15 paragraph response on how this is wrong, taken out of context and why you don't understand what was said, followed by what you actually think and then repeated over and over regardless of the fact that the poor horse has been dead for a week.
The facts are that the Virus most likely came from the Lab, we now have 2 agencies saying this.
Theu US did fund gain of function at this lab along with the Chinese,
The Chinese did suspend all travel from Wuhan to other parts of China but allowed travel outside the country.
These are all facts, the question is why? what was the motivation, with the left and on this site you aren't allowed to have an opinion, that doesn't support the Chinese 100%. an opinion is okay if it is about trump, then you can have an opinion as long as it is that he is responsible for everything bad that has happened and all the deaths despite the fact that Biden has more bodies under his belt.
The gaslighting, if any, would be the attempt to pretend the debate was not:
Did the USA knowingly work with Wuhan to build coronavirus?
-and instead was-
Was the Wuhan lab the epicenter for the coronavirus pandemic?
It is a conspiracy theory to claim the USA knowingly worked with Wuhan to build coronavirus. In contrast, it is a reasonable hypothesis, based on the evidence, that the epicenter of the coronavirus pandemic is Wuhan labs.
It is a bullshit tactic to attempt to be 'correct' by 'misremembering' what was actually in debate.
You clearly have not paid attention to what is being discussed. I stated two years ago (see @1.2) that the evidence suggests the Wuhan lab was the epicenter; that it is a reasonable hypothesis.
EcoHealth funded the gain of function research (but this was not gain-of-function for coronavirus). The NIH did not authorize this. The US government did not authorize this. Generalizing this wrong action of EcoHealth to the US government in general is wrong. EcoHealth made the decision to fund Wuhan. That is the point of fault. NIH and the US government in general can be faulted for a failure to do proper oversight.
That is correct. Again, you do not pay attention. The conspiracy theory Vic offered was that China extemporaneously allowed travel outside of China to take advantage of the coronavirus outbreak to infect the planet on the hope that this would cause Trump to lose reelection. And that the CCP did not care if the planet saw them holding the smoking gun. See the difference?
Know what is actually in debate before opining.
Fuck off!
The expected 'rebuttal' given you did not know what you were talking about.
Fuck off!
"Yet no confirmed animal source for Covid-19 has been identified. The lack of an animal source, and the fact that Wuhan is the center of China’s extensive coronavirus research, has led some scientists and U.S. officials to argue that a lab leak is the best explanation for the pandemic’s beginning."
Since it's been established that the Wuhan lab was doing gain-of-function research, it's highly probable that a lab leak was the likely source.
Something tells me that there is a lot more to this.
What ever happened to that very early report that a part of the genome had markers that seemed to suggest that portion was enhanced in a lab. That reporting very quickly disappeared but I never saw anything reported that disproved it other than the overall statement that the virus was not man-made.
I agree that we will never know the full truth. Only thing we can be thankful of is that it wasn't "Captain Trips". Thank you Stephen King for those images...
The most common sense comment on this whole page.
And why might that be?
Because, notwithstanding your consistently promoting what YOU believe to be true, even though there are differing opinions about the source, nobody has been able to absolutely nail it, and their opinions are not more than possible or even "most likely" (note the title to the seed) BUT NOT ABSOLUTE. At one time you said China DELIBERATELY released the virus, which, of course would have meant it would have infected the whole Chinese population with the original deadly version of the virus and I really see that as being totally ridiculous and evidence of your unfaltering attitude about it.. And why my comment "might be" is because I believe that an absolute factual identification of the source will never be determined.
It comes from Biden's Energy Department. At what point do people finally admit that this terrible thing was man-made?
At one time you said China DELIBERATELY released the virus, which, of course would have meant it would have infected the whole Chinese population with the original deadly version of the virus and I really see that as being totally ridiculous and evidence of your unfaltering attitude about it..
I NEVER said the CCP deliberately released it in China. China was already infected with travel restrictions in place there. The CCP did allow travel out of China. That is what I said. And yes, to the world they did DELIBERATELY release it.
And why my comment "might be" is because I believe that an absolute factual identification of the source will never be determined.
And why I asked why it might be is because the CCP DELIBERATELY destroyed evidence, made people disappear and refused to cooperate with the rest of the world.
Since that is what YOU believe, then my saying Snuffy's sentence made common sense, so what was your purpose in asking me why I thought so? Seems to me it was to wait for my answer in order to give you the opportunity to spread your own propaganda.
We had the EVIDENCE in May of 2021.
It is not propaganda. It is fact.
Goodbye Vic.
Parting is such sweet sorrow, that I shall say good night till it be morrow.
(Romeo & Juliet Act 2 Scene 2)
Bullshit. You argued that China chose to allow the virus to infect the world (by allowing flights to continue) on the chance that it might ruin Trump's reelection. When I challenged you by noting that China would not want to hold the smoking gun after launching the planet into a pandemic, your feeble rebuttal was that China does not care if everyone knew they knowingly infected the planet. I labeled this a ridiculous conspiracy theory.
Bullshit on you,
I did argue that China let those flights went out but NEVER did I say they allowed it to infect their own people.
I labeled this a ridiculous conspiracy theory.
As all lefties do!
I did not claim that you said they allowed it to infect their own people. You are deflecting.
You claimed that China, once the virus was out, chose to allow it to leave their borders to infect the planet. Do you deny this now?
I'm not deflecting. That's what Buzz asked and it's what you once asked, remember? "Why would the CCP allow their own people to get infected." Of course, that was the accident that happened. The CCP tried to protect it's people they set up travel restrictions IN CHINA, yet they allowed flights to go out:
One can easily conclude that the CCP wasn't so stupid to not know what they were doing. The other link I posted above demontrates that they had some idea what they were dealing with as early as November of 2019. So why all this effort to prevent people from questioning the CCP or Fauci?
You claimed that China, once the virus was out, chose to allow it to leave their borders to infect the planet.
Correct. It is a FACT. There it is in the link above.
You keep dodging. Yes it is a fact. You used that fact as the basis for your conspiracy theory that China extemporaneously decided to infect the planet.
You keep playing games.
In other words you think the CCP wisely protected their own people but somehow fucked up in letting those flights go to all parts of the world?
Is that what you are trying to sell us, TiG?
They didn't seem concerned...except for their own country. Their lack of cooperation or transparency is pretty telling...almost like a cover up.
I take it you don't agree that this with this consensus of scientific opinion as to the origins of the virus.
It's obvious that the Communist government of China is not our friend and rival, but actually one of our enemies.
More deflection from you.
No, I think your conspiracy theory that the CCP intentionally allowed flights so as to infect the planet is a ridiculous conspiracy theory.
You need to spend more time reading what people write. My words were very clear.
Not the point.
I don't know why you keep going. Waste of time and there will be an attempt to keep the argument going by changing the point, moving goal posts, and calling your responses conspiracy theories.
Here's what keeps me going:
"Maybe some of the other intelligence agencies don't really have the depth, as you mentioned, Livermore, but energy has a lot of science depth and I think they really looked at this scientifically.
FBI obviously has a lot of science depth. They looked at it scientifically. Obviously, the information in the energy report is still classified, but I do believe, as I said before, over two years ago, that I think that clearly the origin of this virus was a leak from the Wuhan lab and eventually that will, you know – people will come to realize that. "... DR. ROBERT REDFIELD
Former CDC director: People will come to realize COVID-19 came from a lab (msn.com)
Here's another reason:
MIT researcher feels ‘validated’ after agency says lab leak may have caused COVID outbreak | Watch (msn.com)
Yeah, Vic, and what did I write two years ago?
I wrote that my hypothesis is that the coronavirus likely came from Wuhan lab. My reasoning was based on the evidence at the time (proximity of the lab, infected lab workers, the fact that this is a bio lab, etc.). It could have come from other sources like the wet market, but the evidence seemed to point more to the lab.
You, however, remembered something entirely different and attempted a 'see I told you so'. But you were wrong and I proved it by delivering one of my many comments from two years ago on this subject.
The moral of our story is that it is best to follow the evidence rather than engage in idle speculation or conspiracy theories. Following the evidence is a much more reliable path to truth.
You, bugsy, et.al. play your intellectually dishonest games and that includes falsely claiming I am the one playing games when in reality I am simply following the evidence.
Do better.
You do not seem to realize that the (albeit low confidence) likelihood of Wuhan as the source (where the Wet Market, etc. are still possibilities) is almost exactly what I hypothesized two years ago.
You're following the evidence all right.
We had a lot of discussions on this issue back then, back when the media and Fauci were dead set against the idea of the virus escaping the lab. All those Chinese Scientists, most long missing, were ignored. You saved one of your quotes from one of those discussions as an out. You haven't answered any of my questions and you act as if this matter is still a mystery.
I'm more concerned with what's happened to NT. I'll leave the echo chamber for now.
Correct.
I did not save my comment. I went back and picked one of many to prove that you misremembered my position.
There is no 'out' to be had. My comment is definitive and all you have done since I posted it is dance about.
My hypothesis remains valid and is now slightly more likely based on the report which is the topic of this seed.
I asked you to be more specific. I am not going to opine on open deflection questions. If you want to seriously inquire about my position then be specific.
Vic argued that China deliberately allowed flights to leave China to infect the rest of the world months ago and I posted evidence back then that China stopped all international flights at the same time as other nations, and if they did allow any international flights subsequently they were strictly humanitarian flights. At that point the world was fully aware of the virus and if they did not quarantine the passengers disembarking from those flights it was their own fault.
As I pointed out above, the statement "I agree that we will never know the full truth." made common sense in light of the many theories, and the one championed by Vic by posting this article was not an absolute, but a "most likely" OPINION that was indicated to have been arrived at with "low confidence" and for all the reasons that Vic himself related as to why the absolute truth will NEVER be known, my comment was BEYOND questioning, unless the purpose of doing so was to SET ME UP, which in MY opinion is what he did. There are consequences for such offensive behaviour. "Goodbye" does not mean "good night".
He argued it years ago (actually).
Noted.
Some people will play endless games rather than admit they may have been mistaken.
Well, you know how it is.....
Take a look at that article. Was I even discussing it with you. I'll go back and see if I can find some. You were a vigorous defender of the democrat/media/Fauci position that any thought of the virus coming from the lab was a "conspiracy theory." That was the talking point back then. As a matter of fact, just last night Speaker Kevin McCarthy recalled being in a private meeting with then President Trump and Dr Fauci in early 2020. He recalled that the very first words out of Fauci's mouth was that the virus did not come from a Lab, before anyone really knew anything about it. McCarthy asked "why would he say that?"
CORRECT!
You find that hard to believe that the country that sends Fentanyl over our southern border wouldn't do such a thing?
As if I'm saying anthing different now.
Well you know how it is.. ..
You're trying to cover your ass now, because you know the obvious truth is coming out. That info by the way was classified info. It was leaked, most likely because a House Committee is about to investigate it.
You were out there calling everyone conspiracy theorists and now you want to pretend you were waiting for the facts to come in.
Bullshit. I was countering your false claim that Fauci stated that the ONLY possible source of the virus was natural. What he actually stated was that there was no evidence (e.g. biological markers) that suggested it was artificial and thus he thought it more likely that it was natural. He NEVER stated that it was NECESSARILY natural ... his professional opinion was that it was more likely natural than artificial.
You refused to accept his conditional (which is the normal scientific position) language and attempted to translate his words into a binary scenario. I objected to your tactic.
Cover my ass for what? My comment shows that my hypothesis was Wuhan lab as the most likely epicenter. That is what this seed suggests too. So how does your mind conjure up this notion that I have a need to cover my ass?
You continue to make shit up even when proof has been provided showing you are wrong.
I called out your conspiracy theory wherein you claimed the CCP extemporaneously allowed the virus to leave their borders and infect the planet on the hope that this would cause Trump to lose the election. I noted that the CCP would never want to hold the smoking gun that caused a pandemic and has far more surgical (and reliable) ways to influence an election. You 'argued' that the CCP does not care if the whole world knew they were the cause.
That, Vic, is and was a ridiculous conspiracy theory.
It was also a conspiracy theory for you to claim that Fauci, et. al. knowingly worked with Wuhan to conduct gain-of-function research that would produce coronavirus. That too is and was a ridiculous conspiracy theory.
When you invent wild scenarios based on weak or inexistent evidence, expect to have your fantasies labeled as conspiracy theories.
Agree, the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) has proven not to be a trustworthy partner on COVID-19. They have done their best to silence doctors, expelled journalists and provided unverifiable information about the origin of the virus. We will never know what the impact could have been, the number of deaths that could have been prevented if the Chinese government had been truly transparent and cooperative on the origin and what they knew about the virus.
Not sure there was any government around the world that was a trustworthy partner on this. Hell, our own government here in the US worked diligently to silence critics and force their information on the public.
Not a good precedent for future pandemics.
Such a catastrophic failure of public health and the lackeys in media who unquestioningly parroted their politicized “science.”
I would say the death toll from Covid-19 is something Xi and his CCP have to live with, but the fact is that Xi and the CCP really do not give rat's behind about trivial things (to them anyway) like death tolls and lose no sleep over it.
It's so strange. NBC's "misinformation reporter" assured us that even suggesting the coronavirus originated in a Wuhan lab was "fear-mongering Coronavirus conspiracies”
And the response from the narrow minded bigots on the left went like this.
Fuck the cancel culture and everyone who supports them. It's called humor you stupid fuckers, but who can expect anything different from a group who get their "news" from Colbert, Stewart and MSNBC which are all comedians also.
Dept. of Energy? Must be slow for the nuclear warriors; they're looking for something to do.
Every one of the 'theories' for the source of COVID are low confidence. That's how intelligence agencies tell people they don't know. The people who must know really don't know. And we can't let the public know that government policy is based upon a WAG. Anybody can guess and that threatens bureaucratic job security. Those who really don't know must sound like they do to keep their jobs.
What do we know for certain? The pandemic began in Wuhan and was not contained. We know that international travel spread the virus to all corners of the globe. The COVID virus may have originated in Wuhan but, primarily, air travel across open borders was the direct cause of the pandemic.
We also know that President Trump had it investigated. We know that certain public-health officials wanted to hide that U.S. financial aid to the Wuhan lab may have contributed to the “gain-of-function” research that wasn't supposed to be going on. We know that president Biden shut down the Trump investigation and ordered his own, which we've never heard about since.
Anybody who asked questions was called a "conspiracy theorist."
Now we simply have a bit more evidence that it is exactly what those Chinese scientists, who were ignored, tried to tell us it was!
Anyone who presumes their own facts in place of unknowns and whose 'facts' spell out a conspiracy are appropriately called a conspiracy theorist.
And you are an excuse maker for the CCP, Fauci and Biden.
Yes, there was a lot of churn. Wasn't the purpose of all that churn to distract us from realizing the the most effective means of controlling the pandemic was to control the borders?
People spread the virus from country to country; not bats, pangolins, or sloppy gain-of-function researchers. In this case, people were the rats spreading the plague. And the international health experts flatly told us that controlling travel wouldn't work and shouldn't be done. The WHO bears more responsibility for the outbreak becoming a pandemic than does any lab worker in Wuhan.
The the rule based system of interdependence utterly failed and threatened the entire population of the planet. Lives were sacrificed to maintain that global system of interdependence. Where the virus came from may be academically important but how the virus was allowed to spread proved to be the real threat. Are we going to allow distractions prevent us from addressing the real problem? What about next time?
So Tig, considering the known facts, what's your opinion as to the origin and spread of Covid?
And what made it so deadly?
Yeah, to a conspiracy theorist those of us who follow the evidence rather than engage in ridiculous conspiracy theories might seem like excusing. In reality, those 'excuses' are simply putting the available facts on the table and dismissing ridiculous, partisan nonsense for what it is.
Read what I wrote @1.2 and @1.2.2
What? You need someone, at this point in time, to explain the biological factors that caused COVID-19 to be deadly? Catch up.
Do you think the gain-of-function research was make it more transmissible and contagious?
It seems much worse than a natural mutation of an existing strain of this group of viruses
You know, a bioweapon. Just a theory, no conspiracy accusations intended.
The gain-of-function research at Wuhan had nothing to do with coronavirus (based on evidence thus far). I am not going to speculate on something that has no supporting evidence.
Do you think the common cold viruses were engineered? Do you think smallpox, typhus, yellow fever, scarlet fever, bubonic plague, etc. were engineered? Were the many variants of coronavirus engineered?
My point is that deadly shit does indeed arise naturally. Thus I do not find it odd if a modern virus were to emerge naturally. I do not immediately jump to bio weaponry without persuasive evidence of same.
You are simply speculating. Most anything is possible. That is why it is important to follow the evidence to where it leads instead of leaping into wild speculations and then use confirmation bias to convince yourself that you are so very insightful.
So anyone who ever claimed the lab leak was a conspiracy theory, is in fact a conspiracy theorist.
If someone had offered the hypothesis that the Wuhan lab was the epicenter for the virus, that would be a fair hypothesis based on the evidence (the nature of the event, the workers infected, the proximity to Wuhan, the nature of work at Wuhan, etc.). If someone were to claim that it was conspiracy theory to hypothesize the Wuhan lab as the source, that conspiracy theory claim would be unsupported.
I read the same articles you did, and it seems that a Covid variant escaped from the lab. We don't know if it was intentional or not, or bio-engineered or not, but no intermediate animal host has been identified.
What we do know for certainty is that the CCP authorities tried to cover it up from the beginning and silenced those medical professionals that brought to their attention...the eye MD who later died from it being one of the first. We also know they have been very uncooperative about sharing information and allowing examination of their research and facilities.
I am of the opinion that sinister motives might be afoot, and informed speculation is entirely proper here.
Not sure why you're getting all twitchy about this
Yes that is what this source believed happened. The evidence certainly points at the lab.
Correct, we do not know.
Yes, we know that.
Well of course that is a possibility, but we have nothing but speculation at this point. Evidence is needed ... not more speculation.
You are imagining things.
Its hard to imagine our nation's public health authorities or media undercutting trust in them any more thoroughly than what happened during the pandemic.
When they said it was okay to appear in large groups to protest over racism but not school closures, it became clear that their agenda was not about science.
Protesting is a constitutionally protected right. Just in case you forgot...
Never forget that Trump ADMITTED he delayed taking effective action about the pandemic for at least a month, with the excuse that he didn't want people to panic, and that was recorded by Woodward so it is undeniable. In the month the virus flourished.