Getting to the truth on the origins of covid
Link to Quote: Covid-19 origin debate 'squashed', ex-CDC chief Dr Robert Redfield claims - BBC News
Yesterday a new House Committee investigating the origins of the covid pandemic held its first hearing. There has been a great coverup of the origin of this murderous pandemic, first by the CCP, then the WHO and most prominently by Dr Fauci and our dishonest left-wing media. The problem is that the virus most likely escaped from the lab in Wuhan China which was dedicated to the study of such deadly viruses.
The Committee's key witness was the former director of the CDC and the man that Dr Fauci kept away from any discussions of the origins of what appears to be a man-made virus.
"During his testimony, Dr Redfield also spoke of his opposition to so-called gain of function research, in which viruses are manipulated to become more infectious in lab environments.
He said that US agencies had likely funded such research at the Wuhan institute."
Covid-19 origin debate 'squashed', ex-CDC chief Dr Robert Redfield claims - BBC News
The Committee which contained seven democrats was not without the usual resistance. One witness was smeared as a "racist' (you guessed it) by the hate monger Raul Ruiz. He alleged that House Committee witness Nicholas Wade had written a book that was somehow "racist." On those grounds Ruiz wanted Wade disqualified from testifying. Wade was able to defend his book (which had zero to do with anything) and the Committee Chairman put Ruiz in his place and the hearing continued. The House investigation follows the admission by both the Energy Department and the FBI that the pandemic most likely came out of the lab at Wuhan, just like Chinese scientists risked their lives to tell us.
Here is a brief breakdown of yesterday's findings:
One of the leading suppressors of the lab leak theory, The New York Times, today claimed that we may never know the real origins of the pandemic. That's called wishful thinking. Many scientists believe that science will give us the answer eventually.
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They called it a "conspiracy theory!' They said, "Let's wait for the facts." Dr Fauci forced scientists to write a report downplaying the lab leak theory and then promoted it as if he had nothing to do with writing it.
It was a coverup from the beginning and it was to protect the CCP and Dr Fauci.
Dr. Redfield is an important voice and we should indeed take him seriously.
Claiming with certainty that the USA government (or rogue elements of same) knowingly funded (against a USA ban) gain-of-function research at Wuhan which resulted in the coronavirus should be done based on facts. Not conjecture. Conjecture of such magnitude is conspiracy theory. And specifically claiming the NIH knowingly did this funding is an allegation lacking supporting facts.
Now, read what your source actually stated:
As I have stated for years now, the hypothesis that the coronavirus resulted from a lab leak is quite plausible. That is not conspiracy. The conspiracy theory is the claim-of-certainty that the NIH knowingly funded the gain-of-function research at Wuhan which produced the coronavirus. Dr. Redfield is not making that claim, that came from you and others of like minds. In the hearing he characterized his view that coronavirus resulted from an accidental lab leak as hypothesis. And that is, IMO, an accurate characterization.
Dr. Redfield's statement on funding was:
Likely is an opinion, not fact and not evidence. What we need are the underlying facts that cause Dr. Redfield to form his opinion. If rogue elements of the US government knowingly funded gain-of-function research then that research could be against US bans on such research. Some gain-of-function research is allowed by the US government (e.g. testing on influenza). We need the facts and expert analysis (scientific and legal) to determine if any gain-of-function research leading to coronavirus was knowingly funded by the US government and if said research was within or outside of the bans.
Facts. Details. Analysis. Simplistic, broad-brush, fact-weak but claimed-as-certain assertions are the makings of conspiracy theories.
Partisan, non-critical thinking is epitomized by refusing to accept facts that one doesn't like.
Here is a big fact:
A US-based scientist who worked at a research lab in China's Wuhan, the city where virus first emerged, has said that the Covid was a "man-made virus" that leaked from the facility. Covid was leaked from Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV), a state-run and funded research facility, two years ago, New York Post reported, quoting US-based researcher Andrew Huff's statement in the British newspaper The Sun.
In his latest book, "The Truth About Wuhan," epidemiologist Andrew Huff has claimed that the pandemic was caused by the US government's funding of coronaviruses in China.
In addition you had Chinese scientists who risked their lives to tell us.
It's called evidence.
Exactly, Vic. It also, apparently, involves ignoring what is written in a post and substituting your own claim.
I wrote my post after finding the testimony of Dr. Redfield and listening carefully to what he stated.
Now here is what we do with this. We seek the evidence underlying this claim. A claim by someone is the trigger to investigate. It is not evidence in itself.
If you were engaging in critical thinking you would want to see real evidence and then would follow it to wherever it logically leads. You, in contrast, leaped to a conclusion two years ago and have worked to shore up your conclusion ever since. CONFIRMATION BIAS
The positions of knowledgeable people are important because more than likely they have real reasons for forming their opinions. We want to know the facts and logic underlying their opinions. One does not simply accept the positions of either side of a debate, one considers the underlying factors; if one is indeed engaging in critical thinking.
Do you think Dr. Redfield was in a position to have an informed opinion on the subject?
That's what we get from the left all the time. Like our nation is doomed because of white supremacy, systemic racism, and global warming.
But some here only consider one side of the debate. Their minds appear to be made up.
That I think is true for most of the partisan-driven debates.
Yes, can you not tell that from my comment?:
Are you aware that everyone to your left is not necessarily 'the left'?
Curious as to why there is even a debate.
I couldn't care less how or where it originated.
I do know that Trump and his science denying sycophants made the pandemic much worse than it needed to be.
The far right-wing pushback on masks, vaccinations and social distancing are childishly idiotic and have caused millions of deaths.
I couldn't care less how or where it originated.
You can't see why we might want to understand if we accidentally killed 10 million people and the implications that might have for future behavior?
It's incredibly reckless (and science denying) to not figure out what the hell happened.
Million S ??
What would a leftist reply be without hyperbole and histrionics?
The far-right don't understand or care about science; just China bashing.
Biden's DoE disagrees with you.
Is everyone that does not think like you far right?
So you consider yourself far right then?
Now, Sean, you should know by now that if you disagree with this one, he will call you a fascist.
Why does it always have to be words the left has no knowledge of, or use it to the point it has no meaning?
Exactly, the importance of international cooperation, transparency and trust in pandemic prevention is way overblown.
.No, just right!
That's what I was trying to say in one of my comments below - the former 'president' and the science denying assholes which includes the former 'president' indeed did make the pandemic much worse and caused it to spread much worse due to their science denials and pushbacks on all that you stated.
In other words, the only evidence you will accept is the evidence that the CCP destroyed.
Then you don't want the truth.
Fantasy!
My position is that we follow the evidence to wherever it leads. If it turns out that we do not have sufficient evidence to draw a sound conclusion then we recognize that we have an unknown. We do not just fill in whatever reality suits our partisan or conspiratorial purposes.
You, however, have demonstrated in your comment that you will just make shit up as you just did with your ridiculous accusation.
As I've said before, try to get a bone away from a hungry dog. It's a good thing that the legal system in civilized countries requires proof BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT before imposing capital punishment upon a murderer, and even then mistakes have been made, but when it comes to establishing a source for Covid-19, well fuck it, any good "most likely" argument is worth supporting as absolute proof. Personally, I think there are damn good reasons to believe that America blew up the NordStream pipeline, or at least provided all necessary means to others to have done it, but there's no absolute proof, so America is off the hook, but that logic doesn't apply when it comes to the Covid-19 source, eh?
I don't trust Redfield one bit.
I actually knew him when he was head of Infectious Disease at the University of Maryland some years ago, when I worked for the Division. He's a creep, this I know from personal experience.
Personal experience aside, I don't trust his word one bit.
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That focuses on the wrong aspect of Dr. Redfield's testimony. Dr. Redfield's experience illustrates how institutional science operates.
Genetics and scientific investigation won't determine whether SARS-CoV-2 emerged in a market stall or a petri dish. Gain-of-function research utilizes the exact same evolutionary process as would be found in the wild. A virus becoming a human pathogen in the wild would be indistinguishable from a virus becoming a human pathogen in gain-of-function research. Genetic science cannot answer the question about original source.
The inability of science to objectively determine source results in competing theories. Dr. Redfield testifies that one theory was accepted by institutional science (a wet market being a natural source) and other theories were silenced. By silencing other theories, the search for evidence to support those theories was blocked. The only evidence that is sought would support the institutionally accepted theory. Evidence that doesn't support the institutionally accepted theory is rejected as unimportant.
Institutional science chose one theory, silenced other plausible theories, blocked collection of evidence to support other plausible theories, and rejected evidence that did not support the chosen theory. Now institutional science declares that theories not supported by evidence are 'conspiracy theories' after rigging the game to prevent collection of evidence.
Institutional science demands evidence while blocking the collection of evidence. That's really what Dr. Redfield's testimony reveals. Institutional science is a rigged game that cannot be relied upon to provide any sort of objective truth.
You would think this would be a priority, but Democrats are turning it into a clown show.
There was one little problem. Dr Fauci thought that even a lab leak would be worth the research from the lab work. It is getting more & more obvious that he gave the ok for gain-of-function research in Wuhan. Both Dr Fauci and Dr Collins thought it was worth it. Unfortunately this pandemic was a consequence of the accidental escape from the Wuhan lab of such experimentation.
Doesn't everything the democrats are involved in turn into a clown show?
If the democrats in congress ever get some integrity, it will be a miracle. If the truth of where Covid originated from comes out during Bidens presidency, he will be exposed as the lacky for Xi we all know he is. How many democrats have slept with Chinese spys or had them on their payroll? are we up to 50 yet?
Why not? They paid him well.
Whatever the origin of Covid really is does not matter. In the US alone the death toll exceeds a million.
Might be wiser to prepare for the next time something like this happens instead of trying to score political points with a horrible death toll. Not to mention the expense this damn thing has costs us and it still ain't over. And whose fault is this?
Well, it certainly wasn't Trump's fault, as some here have implied.
The former 'president' wasn't at fault for Co-vid but he did absolutely nothing to notify the public until it was too late and absolutely nothing to promote vaccines once available. And did nothing to stop it from spreading unchecked.
The piss-poor handling of early COVID was definitely Trump's fault.
BINGO! It's just like you said in your earlier post.
That is total bullshit. And that is a fact.
You want a fact? Woodward recorded Trump admitting that he delayed doing anything serious about the virus for at least a month. Why? As he said, he didn't want to panic people. During that month the virus, which was highly contagious, proliferated throughout the USA. Don't believe me? You can google it.
No theory is absolutely definite, but is still a matter of opinion. Therefore the promotion of a specific theory depends on the proposer's motive, or upon what they WANT to believe, even if they keep proposing the same thing like a dog with a bone.
Does not matter anymore. It is here and it is real. We have to deal with it.
Theories are theories. Sickness and death are real.
Maybe so, but I was addressing the topic of the seed. How the USA has dealt with it, i.e. why the virus had such a devastating effect in the USA as compared to elsewhere is another story, as is the continuation of dealing with it.
It didn't. Even with the high death toll under Biden, the US numbers were pretty ordinary. Moreover, life has been back to normal here for well over a year while countries like China saw a million deaths from covid this winter.
Plus, the US, of course, did its best to report its data honestly, unlike some countries that lied for years.
The US dealt with it depending on the political bent of the regions. Some took it seriously, some not so much and some treated it as a hoax.
...and many paid the price because they refused to follow the safety guidelines such as wearing masks, maintaining distance, etc. because it was contrary to their personal rights and freedoms.
Trump's favorite word when speaking of science related matters.
Of course it's from Nature Buzz. The virus samples were collected from bats in caves nowhere near Wuhan, than taken to the Virology Institute for gain-of-function research.
If it's from "nature", why has the Chinese government been so secretive about it, and refuses to cooperate with investigations of why the virus was so contagious and deadly
A more than 2 year old article promoting the Bat Pangolin BS? The new story is Racoon dogs and red foxes. Nobody has bought the Pangolin BS for awhile.
\ Lab leak theory of pandemic resurfaces but evidence points to animal spillover : Goats and Soda : NPR
This is the problem for the Market theory pushers.
more than 2 year old article promoting the Bat Pangolin BS?
Its amusing he chose that article given what we know now about it's politically motivated origin.
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In case nobody knows, I no longer waste my time replying to comments that are posted by persons who have no personal knowledge of what they are talking about and have no interest in doing anything other than spreading misinformation that they have read.
Why the big, grand announcement?
I'm sure that if you put your mind to it you're smart enough to figure that out for yourself.
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Evening..so what is the go in China at the moment with the virus??
Last I heard it was firing along on all cylinders and infections were really taking off in China...
And then all of a sudden dead silence??
It's certainly still doing the rounds here and no doubt take off again with the flu bug season arriving now..
It appears it is no longer news worthy here as they no longer give out numbers of deaths or infections..talk of a 5th vaccination here which I will be getting...have avoided COVID so far and hopefully stays that way..
The Omicron variant BF7 took off when China listened to the protests and opened up - it infected everyone, including me no matter how careful I've been because I've never been vaccinated. However, it was a mild form of the virus, affected the upper respiratory system. I beat it staying home, but then I've always known I have a very strong immunity. However, at least 60,000 more vulnerable elderly and infirm people were unable to overcome it. Now things are getting back to normal and many people are travelling abroad, the kids are in school and everything is wide open.
[Deleted] China lies, compulsively, about these things. Experts believe around a million died this winter alone. The 60,000 figure is blatant propaganda.
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And great news on getting to see all the classified information on Covid that the government has piled away.
Passed unanimously by both the House and the Senate.
PARDON ME!!! I made the mistake of actually pointing out that not every story is one-sided, and that there just might be another side to a story, or as Paul Harvey used to say "And now, the REST of the story." I never said I believed either side to be true, or the correct side. But take a look at the shit thrown in my face for having the GALL to say that "most likely" isn't ACTUAL TRUTH. What do some people learn in school in America - FUCK ALL???
Actually Buzz, there are three sides to every story - yours - mine - and the correct one. Melding the three is the goal.
Maybe there is a "correct one", and maybe it is one of the two possibilities already mentioned, but until it is proven beyond any doubt, we will never know what the "correct one" is. IMO "most likely" is not proof. What you see on the comment wall for this seed, and the seed itself, is maybe a little better than wishful thinking, and IMO is what is considered politically necessary, BUT IT IS NOT PROOF.