Biden’s memory is gone. He is unfit to be president
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
President Joe Biden is too mentally deficient to do the job. It would be malpractice for the country to allow him to continue as president or as a candidate for reelection.
In his decision not to charge Biden with mishandling classified documents , special counsel Robert Hur said that Biden was simply an “elderly man with a poor memory” who no jury could reasonably conclude he had the “mental state of willfulness” required to convict him of a felony. The details are far worse: Biden could not remember if he was vice president in 2009, when he started the job, or in 2013, right in the middle of his eight-year tenure.
Along with that, Biden cannot remember details about debates around Afghanistan, a stunning admission given that his disastrous withdrawal stranded Americans in the hands of the Taliban, got 13 U.S. service members killed, and finished off with a retaliatory drone strike on an aid worker and multiple children.
Worse still, quoting from Hur’s report, “He did not remember, even within several years, when his son Beau died.”
Here is that quote again, with emphasis: “He did not remember, even within several years , when his son Beau died.” Beau Biden died in 2015. He is Biden’s shield from criticism when he talks to Gold Star families, and is his son , and he can’t even remember the range of years when Beau died.
This is the same Joe Biden who has repeatedly called out to dead people or claimed to have recently spoken to people who have been long dead, including saying that he recently met with a French politician who has been dead since 1996. All of this is to say that Biden’s brain is fried. His memory is gone. It is debatable as to if he even knows what is going on during given events, including his rambling rants when he tries to speak for more than one minute. This should be disqualifying for anyone who cares about the security of the United States.
Biden has no business continuing to serve as president, let alone running to do it for another four years when he likely cannot even remember the last four. This is disqualifying for Biden, and it should be disqualifying for every Democrat who has endorsed him for another four years.
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This report is beyond damning. That the admin and his media allies have been hiding his mental state from the public is probably the biggest scandal since Woodrow Wilson was incapacitated and let others govern in his name following his stroke.
Here we have a special counsel declaring the President doesn't have the mental facilities to be found to have acted intentionally. He doesn't even know when his son died. It's beyond sad, and his wife should be ashamed for putting him through this. For all the millions he's made for his family by allowing them to grift off his name, there's no one who cares about him enough to protect him. He's just their ticket to be exploited for fame and fortune. It's elder abuse.
No words..........................none
I have two words .........................bull shit
Based on...?
Bull Shit
Bullshit! Your far-right wing fascism means nothing.
The special council is a far right wing fascist or is that just the standard reply?
yes
Thank you for that well reasoned retort with supporting analysis.
Someone needs to go back and retake Types of Government class. High school level will do as long as it isn’t being taught by a Marxist.
Just a deflection from the former 'president' who we see losing what's left of his mind on a daily basis.
That does not mean what you think it means.
The article has nothing to do with the previous POTUS. But don't let that stop you from deflecting with your vast volume if wrong information and projection.
Ya got nothin', while the former 'president's' brain rots from tertiary syphilis before our very eyes
How are you doing with that Biden poll you referenced today or are you memory challenged like Joe?
Proof?
To quote from the movie "Wayne's World", "When monkeys fly out my butt."
Trump said he could not recall, remember or recollect more than 30 times in his answers to Mueller
I guess they are both mentally unfit for the office.
At this point I have to wonder if anyone running for president isn't a little off in the head
So he used the Hillary Clinton defense.
¯\_( ツ)_/¯
An obvious deflection. But the real problem with your argument is that mueller never suggested trump was incompetent to stand trial, nor has any other prosecutor.
Lest we forget.....
Thats true. Mueller had ethics and integrity.
So put you down in the Biden should be indicted as soon he leaves office camp.
Hur doesnt say that Biden would have been indicted except for his lack of memory.
If that’s not your takeaway from the report, I don’t know what to tell you.
bur sure, rely on Hur not using those exact words in that exact order.
Denying the undeniable and defending the indefensible.
He just found no evidence of what he was supposed to be investigating.
Im sure you know what gratuitous means.
this is from Hur's report
" the evidence does not establish Mr. Biden's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt."
The gratuitous comments Hur made about Biden's memory related to the sympathy a jury might have , in Hur's opinion, for a forgetful old man.
Since that's Hur's opinion of Biden, Biden is currently unfit to be the leader of the Free World and is also incapable of making nuclear bombing decisions. Got it!
That's debatable. But he sure didn't have much of a case.
All you have is deflection
Who cares about what that toxic turd Rush Limpballs felt about it! He' dead!
what's that got to do with Biden again?
It was damning and crafty.
That the admin and his media allies have been hiding his mental state from the public is probably the biggest scandal since Woodrow Wilson was incapacitated and let others govern in his name following his stroke.
It was a feat, but most people noticed.
Here we have a special counsel declaring the President doesn't have the mental facilities to be found to have acted intentionally.
Ah, but the report pointed out that back when he took the documents, he took them willfully.
Here is the excuse not to prosecute:
“We have also considered that, at trial, Mr. Biden would likely present himself to a jury, as he did during our interview of him, as a sympathetic, well-meaning, elderly man with a poor memory,” Hur writes.
“Based on our direct interactions with and observations of him, he is someone for whom many jurors will want to identify reasonable doubt. It would be difficult to convince a jury that they should convict him – by then a former president well into his eighties – of a serious felony that requires a mental state of willfulness.”
Biden described as ‘elderly man with poor memory’ in classified documents report – as it happened | Joe Biden | The Guardian
I will agree that a DC jury would never convict Joe Biden, regardless of reason, but that was not a justification to not bring charges. A disinterested Special Counsel would have charged Biden. Every one of these cases has involved bias. The logic being used here is incredible: someone who has lost his faculties and who would not be allowed to drive a tractor trailer is nevertheless fit enough to run the United States of America.
Hur probably didn't want to get Durham'd by a leftist judge and a rampant TDS driven jury. Still no reason not to file charges and further expose our justice system for what it really is. Brandon is guilty; but the system got him off because the Special Counsel didn't feel like putting in the effort of fighting it.
Great testimony to our two tier justice system.
Democrats/leftists are cackling all the way to turning us into a woke, dumber, more racially and economically divided version of China.
“It was a feat, but most people noticed.”
It was noticeable back in 2020, yet some from voted for the mental vegetable anyway.
That is the reason you don't vote against somebody not knowing what you're going to get.
Every one of your COMMENTS is an unhinged rant.
Could be. His report was more damning than if he had charged Biden.
Now that is some very serious projection there.
The sad part is, even the slightest bit of research would have told them that they were voting for incompetency.
Saw this cartoon a few times already. At first it was funny, now I'm not so sure.
He's been posting it everywhere, all the time, IT'S NOT FUNNY, NONE OF HIS ARE, it's low class and common - especially the one with him in bed with Jill - about farting.
Low class and common, like most of the supporters of the former 'president'.
posting his stupid memes about Biden - all of them are stupid and low class and common
It was never funny - to me anyway
That's understandable - you're an American and most likely vote Democrat, but I'm not so it's probable that I'm more objective about such things. I don't take it personally when either Trump or Biden are criticized, and these days I'm critical of both.
I guess sticking him in the basement should have been the big clue.
Should have. But here we are.
The report exonerates Biden so you begin with a lie.
IMO, Hur conspired/colluded with GOP SPEAKER JOHNSON, MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE & TRUMP HIMSELF TO WRITE THE INAPPROPRIATELY DISPARAGING COMMENTS ABOUT BIDEN. Hur was A DOJ TRUMP APPOINTEE.
In his decision not to charge Biden with mishandling classified documents , special counsel Robert Hur said that Biden was simply an “elderly man with a poor memory” who no jury could reasonably conclude he had the “mental state of willfulness” required to convict him of a felony. The details are far worse: Biden could not remember if he was vice president in 2009, when he started the job, or in 2013, right in the middle of his eight-year tenure.
“He did not remember, even within several years, when his son Beau died.”
Not only can the left not spin this to he is competent to be reelected they should be concerned about article 25 now
That it has not been evoked yet is incredibly depressing. It's basically been Weekend at Bernies at the White House the entire time and the media kept the secret.
How can he possibly be President when he lacks the mental capacity to be responsible for his actions?
Complete nonsense.
Assuming you actually read the report your reply of complete nonsense is complete nonsense.
I believe he will be the only one trying to defend it. The rest will go into hiding.
It has been a bad day for old Joe, the state of Colorado and the radical left.
Exactly, his press conference last night should have put any concerns to rest.
Why was this as well as other memory issues mentioned within report? They were not required to mention something like this as cause to not proceed. They only mentioned it why? Because it seems like great Fox News Fodder, to go on and on and speculate about Bidens mental abilities. To date, I have seen some missteps and misstatements by Biden, but have also witnessed as much committed by Trump. Would you not agree?
What the main differences between Trump's case and this one are, Trumps' deliberate actions and lies about not having any documents, due to having returned them all, all as he had people moving them around his complex after multiple times being asked, as was Required return said documents, as Trump NEVER had authority to take any of these records. Trumps' stories and reasoning have varied into fantasy, as he claimed he could magically declassify just by thinking about it, and I find that more concerning to alleged memory issues that Biden is accused of. Perhaps it was Bidens defense strategy to play the senile old kook part, how do we know? Both are poor choices for America, but one should never even be considered, and just my humble opine.
And the first deflection to trump has arrived.
right on time!
deflection is by the reasoning to not charge Biden due to being "memory challenge old man", don't you think ?
They only mentioned it why? Because it seems like great Fox News Fodder, to go on and on and speculate about Bidens mental abilities
You suggesting the special council that stated he should not charged is biased?
The rest of your comment is but but but trump and in no way relevant.
See post 6; and thank you for completely proving my point.
America is now effectively China or Russia legally.
Thank you Democrats.
They said they think it would be hard to get a jury to conclude a doddering old man willfully did anything. That doesn't sound like deflecting
you either have a case or you don't
Sounds like they did but looked for a way out
whats your case. Biden isn't as bad as Trump?
There is a defense of not guilty by mental disorder or defect, they are effectively saying they cannot disprove this defense. Biden is absolutely mentally defective.
Hur is not qualified to make that decision. He should have charged Brandon to the full extent of the law and let a judge decide.
A judge can force Brandon to take a cognitive test issued by a qualified professional.
Hur and Comey are prime examples of how the Establishment protects itself.
What Hur didn't say - and this is important - is that Biden did have the "mental state of willfulness" when he took the classified/secret/etc. documents when he was a US Senator and VP. I saw a photo of one box that had the year 1979 written on it. Was Biden senile then?
I just read through the executive summary of the report. Hur gives numerous reasons why Biden was not being indicted, and none of them are uniquely dependent on Biden's inability to remember.
The irresponsible media is framing this as if Biden's mental state is THE reason he is not being indicted, and that is not true according to what the Hur report actually says.
Then there is no other excuse for not going forward, that being the case.
Lord only knows what you are talking about. The report gives specific reasons why Biden is not being indicted, and his lack of memory is only a small part of those reasons. Put plainly , if Bidens memory was perfect he still would not have been indicted.
Since the controversy here is perceived unfair treatment of Trump, I will offer this:
If Trump had willingly taken classified documents (which he actually did!) and then voluntarily returned them when asked to do so, there would be no legal actions taken against Trump. The public might have never known he had classified documents.
In other words, if Trump had done what Biden did, Trump would be treated just like Biden.
But Trump went waaaay beyond this. He engaged in obstruction and coerced others to hide documents from the authorities. Trump crossed well passed the line into solid criminality.
Key words: cooperation vs. obstruction.
The Hur report specifically cites this as one of the reasons Biden is not being indicted.
Now we actually have BOTH Traitor Joe and Trump do the same thing and only one is facing charges. There's a word for that...
The Hur report specifically says they were not the same thing. Back to the drawing board for you.
What we have is Hur making the unprofessional claim that he's incompetent to stand trial. No competency hearing, no medical professional examination. Really no different than your unprofessional (and unfounded claims) about Trump.
And yes, they are the same thing. Both removed classified materials. Both moved classified materials. Both neglected to return them in a timely manner. They are the same. But you and those like yourself willfully ignore all of that.
Amazing. You take a clear explanation, quote it, and then pen a response that shows absolutely no understanding of what you quoted.
Prior to this both Trump and Biden had illegal possession of classified documents. So they were 'the same' already if one disregards all other factors.
Disregarding all other factors is simply confirmation bias. It is fooling oneself. It is intellectual dishonesty. It is also a profoundly stupid argument.
It is a waste of time.
The amount of hoops some are willing to jump through to defend Brandon is sickening.
Brandon didn't have any right to take classified documents as a Senator- zip, zero, none nada. Unless he personally classified documents as VP he had no right to take or declassify documents.
Brandon willingly didn't return anything. The classified documents were stumbled upon while he was president; and knowing the shit storm his administration had unleashed by calling for the raid on Mar-a-Lago his handlers rushed to try and gather them up. They used people that didn't have authority to even view them to find them (talk about the height of hypocrisy); and did such a shitty job the FBI found even more when they were forced to search Brandon's residences.
There is no chain of custody for the classified documents; they were not stored in a secured location under armed guard; and they were just as in a disorganized mess as Trump's. Brandon's garage proves it.
Bullshit. Go back and look at the timeline- the leaks to the media negate your point.
Bottom line Brandon broke the fucking law; and should be charged to the full extent of it. But Hur pulled a Comey and let Brandon off. Garland chose his patsy well when he appointed Hur.
So if neither one is charged with illegally having documents they shouldn't then all the other factors go away. It is hard to say Trump obstructed much of anything if there is no issue that he had the documents in the first place.
Seems that is all some have to offer - 'a profoundly stupid argument', and debating certain folks, as John says, 'it is a waste of time'.
The pretzel logic is fun to watch though.
Correct. Where do you read where I stated otherwise? You did not! You, as usual, have put forth a dishonest strawman.
A flat out lie. Biden (your use of Brandon is childish) did not engage in any obstruction. He cooperated with the return of documents.
Again a strawman since I have not claimed otherwise.
Trump was playing games with the authorities for many months. Had he simply returned the documents, he would not have been in any trouble and likely would have never been news. It was Trump's intentionally delays that lengthened the process and made leaks more likely.
It is true that Biden broke the law. Technically he could be charged. But you are pretending (and this is just pathetic) that Trump did nothing more than Biden. That is demonstrably false. Biden cooperated while Trump obstructed. If Trump had cooperated like Biden, Trump would not be in trouble. Trump's obstruction actions is the difference that solidly placed him well into criminality.
Both Trump and Biden broke the law (this has been true from day one).
Obstructing authorities from securing their safe return is thus a very significant issue.
Biden cooperated. Trump obstructed. That is the key difference. This should be obvious.
Illustrate the pretzel logic.
Be very clear. Show where my logic is unsound and contradictory.
If it wasn't a problem having them that it should be no problem that he didn't want to give them back. This should be obvious.
I would never subject myself to risking that kind of brain damage, but this could be entertaining...
I was responding about "some" people. You have a guilty conscious?
I understand every bit of it. The problem is it's not what you want to hear, which is not my problem.
Correct. Some boxes of his classified documents that were recently discovered were clearly marked dating back to the 1970s when he was a senator.
Given I have stated that it was against the law to hold the documents that means it was a problem to hold them.
Are you not aware of the Presidential Records Act?
Holding them is not itself criminal. Obstructing their safe return is criminal.
You present no argument, just illogical bullshit.
Context speaks volumes.
Okay, then you are not claiming that my logic is pretzel logic. Just somebody else (unnamed).
Trump obstructed the return of classified documents.
Biden cooperated in the return of classified documents.
If Biden had operated as Trump, he would have been indicted.
If Trump had operated as Biden, he would not have been indicted.
Cooperation vs. obstruction.
Proof of such claims would be welcome.
The former 'president' has provided ample proof of his crimes. Your acknowledgement of reality would be welcome.
I doubt proof would be welcome to you. The proof will be the trial. If Trump is found guilty, I expect you to deem the trial a fraud.
That seems to be certain folks' only contribution(s) here.
Then you should be calling for charges to be filed against Brandon's ghost author for destroying evidence and obstruction.
Demand Garland prosecute Zwonitzer.
Also Hur should be disbarred and sued for wasting tax payer money.
Pretty obvious he didn't want to hold anyone accountable.
There's going to be an entire Psychiatric DSM dedicated to this mental illness.
There is a big difference between evidence that is unlikely to obtain a conviction and that which is overwhelming.
Based on your apparent glee, surely you will now be willing to admit that Trump's classified documents case has merit.
They just can't get it through their heads that Joe Biden "willfully retained classified material." We knew they were never going to charge Biden. They had to come up with some shit reason. They claimed that a jury would sympathize with a forgetful old man. That is the reason they gave for not charging fucking Biden,
The only guy they would charge is Trump.
And we all know it!
The problem Vic is that you refuse to recognize the difference.
Even if Biden willfully retained classified material (very bad!), he cooperated in the return. He did not obstruct.
Trump obstructed the return of classified documents.
Cooperation vs. obstruction. Big difference. Just suppress the bias and think critically.
If Trump had returned the documents when asked, he would not have been indicted and we probably would not even know he had taken them.
Denial is a hard habit to break.
Of course he willfully did it going all the way back to his Senate days.
And the very best liberals can come up with is "But Trump" crapola--as if THAT excuses Biden's own actions.
Traitor Joe is unfit for office and no one should ever vote for him again. He is not good for America.
But because he has a "D" after his name, you, et all, are absolutely fine with letting him off the hook.
In a way he did.
He has had much of the documentation for up to 40 years. Are you going to tell us he did not know he had such documentation over those 40+ years. He had 40+ years to return such documentation, but he did not, thus, he obstructed in returning them.
Trump had the documents for a little over 1 year and was in negotiation for returning them, even the FBI went as far as to request he add a second lock to the room they were in , which he did.
You are right it is not comparable. Biden has been a criminal, outside of his bribery, for over 40 years, a lot longer than what you perceive Trump as being a criminal.
Just as much a criminal charge as Trump.
The problem TiG is that you refuse to recognize the double standard.
Even if Biden willfully retained classified material (very bad!), he cooperated in the return. He did not obstruct.
That is still enough to be charged and the report confirms that.
Trump obstructed the return of classified documents.
That is debatable. Other presidents have had little problem KEEPING such documents. How do you explain that. Why should Donald Trump, the people's representative, be different?
Cooperation vs. obstruction. Big difference.
Republican as opposed to a dirty D. Big difference. A double standard we have seen since Comey fudged an investigation to let Hillary Clinton walk.
Just suppress the bias and think critically.
Quite a suggestion coming from you.
If Trump had returned the documents when asked, he would not have been indicted
FALSE. Let me fix it for you: If Trump said, "I'm not running again," he wouldn't be seeing any indictments.
Biggest truth telling today.
Which means he doesn't have the same claims over classification that Trump has.
And the very best liberals can come up with is "But Trump" crapola--as if THAT excuses Biden's own actions.
Biden underscored the commentary in the report with his press conference right after the report was released. It was a disaster and the people saw how mentally challenged he was. That had to be followed by another press conference with what could best be described as a communication/ propaganda expert by the name of Ian Sams. The people have it now and as we heard on "This Week" this morning, the polls indicate the coming election looks more like 2016 than 2020.
Traitor Joe is unfit for office and no one should ever vote for him again.
Hopefully he will be defeated in November. After that I wish him all the worst.
The problem is that you have contrived a double standard. Trump was given all sorts of leeway. They treated him with kid gloves and allowed him to drag this on for months. You ignore all the deference given to Trump and focus strictly on the consequences of his ongoing refusal to cooperate.
If Trump had simply cooperated in the safe return of the classified documents, we would likely not even know he had them.
Yes, Vic, he could be charged if he willfully kept them. And as I have stated, Trump could have been charged merely by his willful holding of classified documents. But Trump would have not been charged had he cooperated.
There is no reasoning with someone who denies that Trump obstructed the return of classified documents.
Again, you ignore all the deference given to Trump for months and deem the consequences of his failure to cooperate and acts of obstruction to be simply political. It is more conspiratorial 'thinking'.
Bullshit.
The investigations on all of his charges were underway when he announced his candidacy.
Biden retained classified documents since he was a lucid US senator and VP. Why didn't he return them in the 1970s - 2000s? One box in a photo was clearly marked "1979". I find it hard to believe that, as a lawyer and elected official, he didn't know that what he did for 30+ years was illegal.
Biden is pure as the driven snow, don't ya know?
And if he DID anything wrong, it is to be forgiven and swept under the rug because he is a Democrat.
That's the type of deluded thinking we are dealing with here.
And even if it is admitted that Biden did wrong, it doesn't matter as they will STILL vote for him.
One can speculate forever. So go with the hypothetical I offered.
Assume that Biden willingly kept classified documents. That is against the law and he could be prosecuted if there is an argument of bad intent. It is clearly wrong regardless.
Biden cooperated with the return of the documents. He did not try to obstruct the return; he did the opposite.
If Trump had done as Biden did (Trump willfully (by his own words) kept the documents), Trump would have had no issues. The documents would have been secured and likely nobody would even have known he had them. Nobody would have raised charges on Trump if he had merely cooperated in the return of the documents.
But Trump did not do that. The government granted him all sorts of leeway and deference. He just keep delaying for months and then in the end began to actually obstruct the return of those documents.
Biden cooperated. Trump obstructed.
Trump brought this on himself.
As usual, I made no such comment. Not even a hint. I have stated repeatedly that Biden willfully keeping classified documents is wrong and arguably criminal.
Endless bullshit in lieu of an actual argument.
Of course he is. He told us that his administration is the most transparent in history, and I certainly believe him. /s
Americans are constantly told that we do not have a two-tiered justice system, but I'm still waiting for evidence.
Only when it was discovered in 2023 that he'd had classified docs since the 1970s in several unsecured locations did he (or his handlers) decide to return them.
As usual, you didn't read my post. I never said YOU made ANY comment at all.
Strawman.
It is indeed bullshit in lieu of rational argument.
Does not matter. What matters is what Biden did upon discovery.
Do you recognize that Biden cooperated and Trump DID NOT? That Trump even went so far as to obstruct the investigation?
If Trump had cooperated as Biden did, he would have had no problems. Do you recognize that?
I can play this game all day, dude.
You know its a pretty weak argument when it includes any variation of the now infamous "But Trump" line.
The difference is that I am not playing a game 'dude'. Get serious.
That makes absolutely no difference under the law. Trump was in violation of the PRA by taking and holding the documents.
It does not matter unless the PotUS actually declassified the documents. And even then, they are not to be removed when he is out of office.
Yes, how many times must I write that Biden had no right to take those documents before it sinks in? Neither Trump nor Biden had the right to hold those documents.
Trump obstructed. Biden cooperated. That is the profound legal difference.
And yet Biden wasn't?... weak
What is weak is you making a strawman argument.
I have stated repeatedly that Biden had no right to those documents.
Most recent statement:
[Deleted]
I don't think it's a strawman.
Is that a watered down way of saying he was in violation of the PRA?
No, Greg, the PRA does not involve criminality.
Criminality gets into 18 USC § 1924. That then requires getting into legal specifics such as intent.
I say arguably because I think a criminal case could be made against Biden if evidence shows that he willingly and knowingly intended to keep classified documents without proper authorization.
And again, Trump did this and then went beyond by failing to cooperate and then, much worse, engaging in obstruction. If Trump had cooperated in the safe return of the documents (even though he willingly and knowingly intended to keep classified documents without proper authorization), he would have not been charged.
I see, so the only difference you see in these two cases is that Trump obstructed and Biden cooperated?
So none of these charges could apply in both cases?
Do you think taking classified information out of a SCIF and taking to your house shows intent?
If you agree this is true then you would also have to agree that he willingly did not return them, nor did he intend to, as evidenced by having many of those documents since early in his Senator years.
Cooperation, especially by high-ranking individuals such as presidents and vice-presidents, will lead to a clean resolution of the problem. The documents will be confiscated and properly safe-guarded. End of story.
We saw how much deference and patience was given to Trump for months as he played delay games with the classified documents. They cut him all sorts of slack and he just kept pushing the envelope.
Clearly, if Trump would have just cooperated this would have ended with no criminal charges and likely quietly (not being made public).
Willful, knowledgeable intent to take and hold classified documents is criminal. But as with all things, judgment comes into play. If one can attribute the technical criminal acts as no intent to do harm, it is very likely that no prosecution would ensue. But when someone goes to the next step and tries to obstruct the safe return of documents, they have now crossed the line into solid criminality.
Trump crossed that line, substantially. Biden, in contrast, cooperated. Fundamental difference.
As noted, I think Biden could be found to have willfully retained classified documents. False statements and representations might apply if they can show Biden deliberately lied.
As for the rest, make your case.
And note, that all of these apply to Trump.
Ahh but as TiG made note of.....
Interesting, no?..
Intent to do what? Be specific. If he knew he had classified documents then he certainly would have the intent to hold classified documents. That alone is arguably criminal. But the level of criminality now depends on the actual intent.
If Biden knew that he had classified documents then he is at fault. Apparently you have not read or do not understand what I have written in this thread.
And when all is said and done, the fundamental difference remains that Biden cooperated and Trump obstructed. If Trump had cooperated, he would not be facing criminal charges on the classified documents case.
What is the 'interesting' aspect? The PRA was designed to ensure presidential records are properly secured when a PotUS (and VP) leave office. It was not intended to be criminal but rather intended to ensure sensitive information was properly secured.
All Trump had to do was cooperate and execution of the PRA would have secured the documents and we would have end of story.
1. Took classified documents out of a SCIF, something that is criminal
2. Nothing has been reported, so can't make a case
3. Keeping classified documents in your home, office, garage, and other places, shows you have no intent to return,
4. Biden did that multiple times since the 70s
5. See number 4
6. We were told several times that documents that were found were all of them, then oops, there was more
7. Hiding them in your office, garage , etc is concealing
8. According to the Hur report, many of the documents in the broken up box in the garage had damaged documents.
9. See number 4
Plenty there to charge, but, alas....a D did it, so no harm, no foul
Now you're catching on.
Steal the documents. You don't just walk out of a SCIF with documents without concealing them in some way.
"the fundamental difference remains that Biden cooperated"
Only because he got busted having them. If he did not get busted, he had no intent on returning them.; This cannot be argued any other way.
What is alarming is these docs can go missing for a decade or more and no one even knows it.
That is partisan bullshit.
Your arguments would be laughed out of court. You translate knowingly holding documents as obstruction. You translate storage of documents as concealment. You translate damage to documents as intentional damage.
There is no way any prosecutor would bring those charges based on the evidence. Your legal analysis is a fantasy.
A very good point. Nice to see.
You are making a lot of assumptions. We do not even know the nature of the documents, the history of how they came into Biden's hands, etc. I guess you can dream that legal experts have the evidence and think the same way you do. (Don't get your hopes up.)
Irrelevant. When discovered, Biden cooperated. When discovered, Trump did NOT cooperate and then after months, obstructed.
Trump brought his legal woes on himself.
An argument could be made about Biden's mental faculties since he didn't remember even having the documents.
Doesn't say much about him, does it?
As are you.
"We do not even know the nature of the documents,"
It has been reported multiple times that they were classified, with some even SCI level. Read Hur's report and you will see.
"the history of how they came into Biden's hands"
Do you think Trump hand carried out the documents that were in his house? If you do, then you should believe the same about Biden. Either way, it doesn't matter. It is Biden's home, he is responsible for what is in it. You can slightly make your argument about the documents at the Penn center.
"(Don't get your hopes up."
Nice taunt
"When discovered, Biden cooperated"
Irrelevent. He was probably told by his handlers that it would be his best interest to give them up. If nothing was said to him or not leaked to the press, then the documents would still be in his house.
I just don't see how someone can defend Biden as much as what is going on here.
Because it is true. He stole the documents, took them to his house, and put them in a box in his garage. Concealment
"You translate damage to documents as intentional damage."
If they were stored properly, ie, in the archives, they would not have been damaged.
"There is no way any prosecutor would bring those charges based on the evidence. "
Robert Mueller, is that you?
I agree, yet fundamentally the law is the same for both.
Wrong. My comments are based on available evidence.
There are many levels of classified documents. We do not know the nature of these documents.
Irrelevant. As I have stated, the knowing possession of the documents is criminal. But the details will determine the severity.
Again, Biden cooperated while Trump obstructed. Had Trump cooperated, he would have had no legal issues here.
I have been quite clear in speaking of the law. So what are you trying to say here?
Biden did not obstruct, he cooperated. Trump obstructed. The law is the same but the actions of these two men are different.
Have you not read the special counsels report?
I thought you stated that violation of the PRA wasn't criminal?
I see, so application of the law is dependent on the men involved?
This was a reply to you:
It is knowing possession that opens the door to laws such as 18 USC § 1924. But the likelihood of charging someone with a crime is based heavily on intent ... determined based on the evidence of the case.
The PRA is not criminal and you can bet that every PotUS who has documents in their possession related to their office (and this in violation) will be handled using the PRA and will not immediately trigger legal proceedings on 18 USC § 1924.
Unless, of course, they do not cooperate ... and especially if they obstruct.
Trump's actions took him out of the realm of the PRA and into the realm of criminality.
Clearly you do not see.
The men are irrelevant, it is the circumstances and the behavior of the men that matters.
If Trump had behaved as Biden did, he would not have been indicted.
If Biden had behaved as Trump did, he would have been indicted.
I think that's ridiculous. It's the law that matters in my opinion.
Mmmmkay....
Yes, Greg, we are talking about the law. Adjudication involves the law and the specific circumstances and actions of the case.
It is illegal to kill someone. There are many laws on the books. The adjudication depends on the specific circumstances and actions of the case.
Surely you understand this. Well, same with classified documents. Law + circumstances + actions are what determine legal actions.
let's just say Biden is too feebleminded to remember taking the docs and possessing them for years.
K, too feeble-minded?...
Vague nonsense.
Adjudication involves the law, the circumstances, and the actions.
If Biden engaged in the same circumstances and behaved as Trump did, Biden would be facing criminal charges.
If Trump had engaged in the same circumstances and behaved as Biden did, Trump would not be indicted in his handling of classified documents.
I think I see where you're coming from now. In your world partisanry doesn't happen, right?
That question suggests that you believe partisan dynamics determines adjudication. Our legal system is a farce ... no better than a banana Republic?
Partisanship influences most everything. And that includes our legal processes. But you take this to the next level and actually imply that Trump would have been indicted even if he cooperated. That is a cynical denial of reality.
On May 6, 2021 NARA asked Trump to return missing documents. They worked (with deference and kid gloves) with Trump for 15 months as he continued to NOT cooperate. This culminated in the Aug 8, 2022 execution of the search warrant.
15 months to get back the full set of documents and Trump did not cooperate. The documents were finally taken by force.
15 months trying to gently get the documents back to safety, but you somehow think that if Trump had behaved like Biden and cooperatively returned the documents that he would have been indicted.
Out of how many years of precedent?
I just noted that the government attempted to work with Trump, granting him all sorts of deference, for 15 months. That illustrates that the intent was NOT to bring criminal charges but rather to secure the documents and end it.
Your question is a non-sequitur so you will need to be clearer if you expect people to understand whatever point you are trying to make.
And some of this classified material he should not have had access to. God forbid we look at the WHOLE SITUATION. Not only did he willfully take it, he moved it around as well.
Without a doubt.
He had this stuff for years. Why don't you all acknowledge that?
Only after he was caught. Why don't you all acknowledge that?
Yes, Biden had the documents for years. The duration has absolutely nothing to do with the law.
Yes, after the documents were discovered, Biden fully cooperated. Trump, however, did NOT cooperate for 15 months at which point the documents were seized from Mar-a-Lago. After that he continued to insist that he had the right to the documents. Worse, Trump obstructed the efforts to retrieve the documents.
Now let's see you acknowledge the profound difference between the two cases: Biden cooperated, Trump obstructed.
Any other obvious, irrelevant facts you need me to acknowledge?
Try to get past the “Trump bad” component. The operant point is: Both handled classified materials poorly and likely illegally. Both are equally guilty of same and should dealt with equally from a legal standpoint on that point.
Do you believe that is what’s happening right now?
Biden removed files improperly both as a Senator and Vice President. He held some of them for the better part of 14 years without a word to authorities.
In 2017 Biden was fully aware that he had wrongly removed these classified files. As Hur noted: there is a taped conversation on record between Biden and his ghostwriter. Biden, at home in Virginia, was recorded as remarking, “I just found all the classified stuff downstairs”. And yet Biden apparently did nothing.
He never came forward to any federal authorities for nearly the next five years.
That may not be possible.
I ask you a question and in response all I see is you making pathetic excuses for the incompetency of Biden.
When you are done playing childish partisan games, we'll talk.
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You asked two questions and I answered both of them.
How stupid do you think readers are? My direct answers @2.3.95 are blatantly obvious yet here you are lying about what I wrote.
In 2.3.95 your gave pathetic excuses. You didn't answer a damn thing.
The amount of time holding documents is not a factor in the law. Holding them for one second or one century makes no difference.
So what are you trying to argue? I have already stated that if Biden knowingly held classified documents then he committed a crime.
Biden (and Trump and Pence) could be charged with 18 USC § 1924 (as an example). Note that intent is a factor here too.
So if Biden and Trump and Pence knowingly took classified documents without authorization then they could be charged with a crime such as violation of 18 USC § 1924.
Note that Trump and Pence have NOT been charged with violation of 18 USC § 1924. Trump's charges deal with his obstruction rather than the mere possession of classified documents.
If Trump had simply cooperated with NARA and allowed the safe return of the documents (rather than NOT cooperate and obstruct for 15 months and then continue to claim he had the right to hold those documents thereafter), he would have not been indicted.
I answered both of your questions with 'Yes' and then qualified my answers for clarity.
You again have lied about what I wrote.
If Biden knowingly held the documents then on the count of illegal possession, both he and Trump would be equally at fault. It would then be possible to bring forth a law such as 18 USC § 1924 and charge both with a crime.
What you refuse to recognize is that Trump went well beyond this. Not only did he knowingly and willingly possess the documents, he obstructed their return.
Biden cooperated, Trump obstructed. Trump's criminal charges deal primarily with his obstruction, not his possession. Thus if Trump had simply cooperated (as Biden did), he would not be facing criminal charges for his handling of classified documents.
Irrelevant to the main issue at play here. Both are responsible for proper and legal handling of those documents. Ignorance of the law is no excuse and does not excuse illegal behavior.
Any supposition that Biden is somehow excused from or less guilty of illegal behavior because he cooperated is simply obtuse. That might get one some sentencing consideration over the other but that’s about it.
This is a kangaroo court against Trump. Nothing more, nothing less. And Biden “skating” so far because he simply cooperated just solidifies that thought.
No, Sparty, it is the key distinguishing factor.
You write this as if I have argued to the contrary. Did you even read what I wrote?
Yet again, you illustrate a failure to read what I wrote.
I stated that Biden, Trump, and Pence would all be equally guilty of willful possession of classified documents if they all knew they had same. So that is the equality part.
The part where Trump breaks from the pack and distinguishes himself is his obstruction. Both Biden and Pence cooperated. Trump did NOT cooperate and then went to the point of obstructing the safe return of the documents.
Do you recognize that Trump obstructed? Do you recognize that his obstruction is the foundation of his indictment? If not, you do not understand what is taking place here.
Facts have no relevance to the Biden defenders here.
Of course Biden took the items. Of course he held them, some of them for YEARS. Of course he had no intention of returning them or he WOULD HAVE DONE SO.
Excuses can be made and comparisons to Trump can be made, but it is all just deflecting from Biden.
Trump doesn't have one damn thing to do with Biden's actions no matter how hard it gets spun.
One day there will be an article specifically about Biden and folks will not talk about Trump, but probably not in our lifetimes.
So, understand me this - Trump is a Repub - Biden is a Liberal/Dem - Clinton is a Liberal/Dem - why is Trump being castigated and the other two were/will be be given $200 Get outta Jail Free card???
James Comey said “one of the mistakes I made” in connection to the investigation of Hillary Clinton’s use of a private email server was his choice of words.
“I should've worked harder to find a way to convey that it's more than just the ordinary mistake, but it's not criminal behavior, and find different words to describe that,” Comey said.
Comey said people may occasionally “mishandle” a classified document, but he described the former secretary of state’s use of emails as “really sloppy.”
“This was over the course of four years, dozens of conversations on email about secret topics,” Comey said of Clinton’s handling of emails. “And I think eight about top secret topics…. So if I'm gonna be honest, I have to say somehow it's more than ordinary sloppiness.”
Andrew Weissman, who served on special counsel Robert Mueller’s team, said Thursday on MSNBC that Hur’s decision to lodge criticisms of Biden’s memory problems was “gratuitous” and reminded him of when former FBI Director James Comey held a news conference criticizing Hillary Clinton in the months before the 2016 election.
“This is not being charged. And yet a person goes out and gives their opinion with adjectives and adverbs about what they think, entirely inappropriate,” he said. “I think a really fair criticism of this is, unfortunately, we’re seeing a redux of what we saw with respect to James Comey at the FBI with respect to Hillary Clinton in terms of really not adhering to what I think are the highest ideals of the Department of Justice.”
Simple fact - if you're a Dem/Lib, DOJ ain't gonna touch you.
Well.....Hillary kills people and Biden is to senile to aid in his defense. that may be why.
Wrong, the legality of keeping classified files is the main factor at play here. You can keep trying to spin it otherwise but that is all it is. Spin.
And you conveniently gloss over the fact that Trump is being hounded legally and Biden is not. I see this much more clearly than many here. Hanging your hat on obstruction as the main reason trump is being prosecuted, ignores the reason there’s obstruction in the first place. Improper handling of documents. And yet, only Trump is being held responsible. Two tier justice, kangaroo court, etc, etc.
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You do not seem to have an argument. I have stated that willingly keeping classified documents is a criminal offense. You seem to want to ignore the other criminal offenses of obstruction.
Yeah, only Trump obstructed so of course you want to sweep that under the rug.
Yet again, you either fail to read what I have written or you will not comprehend it.
Real simple Sparty, look at the Trump indictment. It is predominantly focused on obstruction, not possession.
If Trump had cooperated rather than obstructed, he would have not been indicted.
In the classified documents case, Trump obstructed the return of classified documents. Had he not done so, he would have not been indicted.
If you had read my questions you would see they aren't "yes" or "no" questions. [deleted]
[Deleted]
Nah, you just don’t accept it as an argument which is a much different thing.
Bullshit, I’ve denied no such thing but feel free to show me where I did. You on the other hand seem to accept that Biden’s activity, which you admit is criminal, doesn’t deserve penalty but Trumps does simply because he obstructed. Again, you can’t obstruct, if you did nothing criminal.
Wrong and stop trying to put words in my mouth.
No failure on my part ……
Which is the thing you don’t get. Again, the indictment is BS because it looks past the illegal activity which obstruction comes from. Improper handling of classified documents. Both did it. Both broke the law. Only Trump is being tried on it. Saying that’s just because of obstruction, is just more “resist” bullshit in the face of the law.
You can have the last word now though. This conversation is going the usual circle jerk direction. No interest here in that ….
I wonder if this changes anyone's mind about Biden now?
ah, who am I kidding?
This will be met with a bunch of "but Trump" crapola.
Let's see people justify voting for Biden now!
More likely they will stay away from the topic altogether and the media will only focus on no charges.
No. They'll try to spin it. Anything to avoid admitting they are supporting an utter failure and incompetence.
Well, in all fairness, they may feel they need to justify or rationalize their vote for Biden when he is clearly unfit.
all that would do is admit their stupidity and culpability in all the problems that we see.
True enough.
They're more than happy to keep exploiting him so long as they think they gain from it.
“I wonder if this changes anyone's mind about Biden now?”
They’ll deny it like they have for the past 8 years or so.
nothing but a whole lot of But Trump
At least with Kamala in charge of the border we have a good idea what the next 4 years might be like.
Probably a little worse than the last 3.
Let us hope that those closest to him will give him wise council. Let us hope that those considering the necessary political consequences think first about our country. And let us hope that those making it a personal affront will never have to endure the same scrutiny. Peace.
That ship sailed a few years back.
we should be worried that Democrats will bamboozle their members into voting for him.
Now THAT would be tragic.
Unfortunately, thanks to Trump, peace doesn't and will not exist in American politics for many years. Trump is a divider. Trump and his low IQ Fox fools thrive on hate of the "other".
As do Biden and Democrats.
People living in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
Exactly, it’s just like that here on NT. The Trump supporters thrive on the open hatred that they continually display against anyone that respectfully disagrees while the Dem supporters meet that hate with charity and compassion for all in their comments.
What does that have to do with the article
Can you say "deflection"?
Unlike those (including Joe) who spew MAGA MAGA MAGA all day long.
To paraphrase what a Biden Marxist recently told me ... I hate everything about you because you disagree with me.
Probably just teasing you and didn’t really mean it.
Says the guy that labels everyone slightly left of him a far right fascist.
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thank you for your revealing post.
“it is littered with morons at best, and is actually nothing short of toxic.”
i could not agree more.
No reason to be that mad at the people here who've spent years shilling for Biden and refusing to admit what was obvious to everyone. While they are guilty of enabling the charade, they aren't guilty of actual elder abuse, like Biden's family and friends are.
I, for one, hope someone cares enough for Biden the person to get him the help he needs and let him enjoy his remaining time enjoying his grandkids and some peace and quiet.
Donald Trump tried to steal the 2020 election and it isnt even a close call. You have been refusing to admit that for over three years now.
Donald Trump sat, doing and saying nothing , to anyone, while outmanned police were fighting with a much larger mob. This is not speculation or a guess, it is known fact from multiple testimonies from people who were there.
refusing to admit might as well be your middle name
[This comment stands, as the seeder has responded to it.]
I’ve said since 2015 trump is unfit for office and never changed my opinion. I have no problem admitting that.
But thanks for the Perfect example of what I’m talking about. Biden could poop his pants and throw his feces at Schumer and you’d only say “but trump…”
as long as Trump is the GOP nominee you have no case.
end of story.
please show us your post where you called for him to drop out of the race, or be removed
I wish he would drop out. Happy?
you have said, at least 50 times, that biden is senile.
if i pull your teeth you will say one time that you wish trump would drop out
Imagine some one here repeating themselves over and over.
Until next time
After reading the article which only supports what everybody already knew
as long as Biden is the DEM nominee you have no case.
end of story.
You take this nonsense seriously?
They've been running this country....right into the ground.
Let us hope that those considering the necessary political consequences think first about our country.
Political consequences to what? A free & fair election?
And let us hope that those making it a personal affront will never have to endure the same scrutiny.
May they get half the protection Joe got!
That ship has sailed. Democrats have ensured we will never have one of those again.
Good luck with that Garland/DOJ/Wray/FBI are looking to Jan 6th in the legal system anyone that even thinks about holding a Democrat accountable. Only Democrats may hold other Democrats accountable- and that is if the ever changing racial, gender, woke slide rule says they are part of a more offended minority.
I fear that is true.
Good luck with that Garland/DOJ/Wray/FBI are looking to Jan 6th in the legal system anyone that even thinks about holding a Democrat accountable. Only Democrats may hold other Democrats accountable- and that is if the ever changing racial, gender, woke slide rule says they are part of a more offended minority.
Even democrats see it.
Let me be perfectly blunt.
Hur just pulled a Comey and is letting Brandon off free and clear.
Democrats/leftists don't care if Brandon is a vegetable. If he is able to breath he is able to be their president.
They will claim Hur is not qualified to make a decision on Brandon's mental state.
That Hur wasn't able to come up with a strong enough case against Brandon- and used the "“elderly man with a poor memory.” as an excuse to try and keep guilt on Brandon without filing charges.
Hur should have charged Brandon to the full damn extent of the law and forced a judge to declare Brandon legally incompetent to stand trial.
Hur has just completely reenforced the two tier justice system.
Another great waste of tax payer money to protect Democrats. Garland chose his patsy well.
The left is already calling for Biden to fire Hur because of this.
And just a couple years ago it was an “attack on democracy” to criticize a special prosecutor
Yea, that certainly went out the window to fit a narrative, didn't it?
Uncle Joe, he's moving kind 'a slow at the Shady Rest Hotel at Petticoat Junction
Pretty sure that Joe Biden is much smarter than any of his low IQ MAGA detractors.
Many liberals are sure of many things, many of which aren't true.
What does MAGA have to do with the article
Far right wing fascism, lies and innuendo has everything to do about it. Maga has everything to do with far-right wing lies.
yet another deflection.
Some get upset when their hero gets criticized.
So you are contending that Biden has no mental issues?!?
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Ah I see.
is this what passes as humor in liberal circles now?
more deflection.
sigh.
Why, everything of course.
Don't you remember when we bribed someone to say mean things about Biden?
Read the minutes of our last secret meeting!
I have seen fits, SHIT fits and kaniptions
I think I just saw a shit fit kaniption / kaniption shit fit ( ? )
(now looking for the puddy tat )
He’s is most definitely sharper than the useful idiots who would vote for him.
What far right wing lies are in the article?
That's a fact, Jack!
I am contending that far right-wing fascists have mental issues right up there with Trump's that are on display..
Biden is sane compared to Trump and his far right fascists.
I coulda had class. I coulda been a contender! I coulda been somebody, instead of a bum, which is what I am, let's face it.
Contentions that are, like usual, erroneous.
From Guy Benson:
TRUMP 2024: The only major party nominee competent to stand trial
DITTO
Perhaps he could set up a meeting with James Madison and we could get Madison on tape with exactly what the framers meant with the Bill of Rights?
I don't think Brandon wants to channel anyone that might challenge him to a duel.
Excerpts from the report:
Pg 9 “Biden's memory was significantly limited, both during his recorded interviews with the ghostwriter in 2017, and in his interview with our office in 2023.”
Pg 10, “ Biden would likely present himself to a jury, as he did during our interview of him, as a sympathetic, well-meaning, elderly man with a poor memory.“
Pg 211, “Biden’s memory also appeared to have significant limitations-both at the time he spoke to Zwonitzer in 2017, as evidenced by their recorded conversations, and today, as evidenced by his recorded interview with our office.
Pg 212, “Biden's memory was worse. He did not remember when he was vice president, forgetting on the first day of the interview when his term ended ("if it was 2013 - when did I stop being Vice President?") He did not remember, even within several years, when his son Beau died. And his memory And his appeared hazy when describing the Afghanistan debate that was once so important to him.
Pg 213, “Biden will likely present himself to the jury, as he did during his interview with our office, as a sympathetic, well meat, elderly man with a poor memory.”
Pg 252, “2017 will likely appear consistent with the diminished faculties and faulty memory he showed in Zwonitzer's interview recordings and in our interview of him. Therefore, we conclude that the evidence does not establish that Mr. Biden…
Hur should have let a judge decide if Brandon was mentally competent or not to stand trial.
His worry about Brandon presenting himself as "a sympathetic, well-meaning, elderly man with a poor memory" should have had no influence if he had enough evidence. Which by the scope of what they found between the time he was VP and Senator they had more than enough to charge him.
Comey is smiling broadly right now. He isn't the only special counsel to let a guilty Democrat walk.
There is absolutely no way for a rational person to justify voting for biden anymore. None.
That is how I feel, too.
He is unfit and doesn't deserve another term.
How do you propose to help stop him?
Vote for Haley? Would certainly be sensible if she is the nominee.
And if she is not the nominee (near certainty), vote for her as a third party candidate?
And if she does not run third party (very likely), write-in her name? (A waste of effort.)
Staying home or the equivalent is not going to help address the problem.
Face it, the best way to help stop Biden is to vote for Trump. You engage in incessant ragging on Biden yet insist that you will never vote for Trump.
I can't stop Traitor Joe. I never claimed I could alone. If enough people wake up, maybe there's a chance, and I prefer to take a chance than return someone like him to office.
Been through all that before. Next.
You should tell someone planning on doing that, not me.
You insist on incessant ragging on Trump but admit you'll be voting for Biden if it comes to those two, so I guess that makes us even.
The main difference I see is that I refuse to vote for anyone I deem as unfit to serve the country and you will, however grudgingly.
As usual you fail to read what I wrote:
You are confused. I will be using my vote to help stop Trump. That is the point. You rag on Biden yet claim you will NOT use your vote to help stop Biden.
Your claim is not credible. Mine is.
That's a tired, completely false, overused line.
Ridiculous nonsense.
How wonderful. I will be using my vote to help the country.
You rag on Trump. So what? I prefer to vote for someone qualified who I think will help America.
You may not like my claim (and it doesn't matter at all to me whether you do or not) but it is every bit as credible as yours.
I am not willing to settle for voting for anyone I don't think should be President. I won't settle for someone I don't think can help.
I believe voting for the lesser of two evils is a stupid and unpatriotic act.
Unpatriotic at best.
You should vote for the person you believe would be the best for the country, not because someone sent mean tweets 5 years ago.
Over half of Amerricans don't want either Biden or Trump
This is the third cycle and it seems more people than ever don't want either candidate.
How do we stop the cycle of being put in a position to vote for the lesser of two evils or use our vote to help stop one of the candidates if we keep voting for the lesser of two evils or use our vote to help stop one of the candidates?
We are allowing the parties to give us shit candidates as long as we continue the cycle of voting for the lesser of two evils or voting against one of the candidates even if we don't like the other. You would think people would know this by now since this is the third time in a row they are doing this to us. And now it is even how they are framing their candidate. Vote for X because he is not as bad as Y.
Hard to believe people have to be told this. We are allowing the parties to give us shit candidates as long as we continue the cycle of voting for the lesser of two evils or voting against one of the candidates even if we don't like the other. It is time for at least independents (especially ones not in a swing state) to make their displeasure known. It would be nice if even the party people to make their displeasure known also.
If more people believed that and acted accordingly we would not be in the position we find ourselves in.
That's how I feel.
Makes zero sense to gripe and complain all about partisanship and voting for the lesser of two evils, and then turn around and KEEP DOING IT!
Senseless blather.
isn't voting for the lesser of two evils still voting for evil---knowingly??
Seems there is no real desire to change things if you keep rationalizing why you keep doing the same thing
It would seem that way to the rational but some can rationalize to themselves that it is not the case for them. Millions it seems.
One would LIKE to think people would know by now, but it is painfully obvious that is not the case.
I believe that many will continue to gripe and complain and then pull the lever for someone they KNOW in their hearts isn't good for America. To me, that is being dishonest with yourself to pull that kind of stunt.
Its a tricky road to navigate--the problems start, IMO, when folks are forced to "rationalize" their vote.
Exactly. Which is why it is best if people just vote who they think is best and not play games with their votes. But I will always say they have the right to vote for whoever they want, for whatever reason they want. I just can't (and don't have to) understand it.
My reply to this thread is here:
Some can't see it that way.
When push comes to shove, they will hold their noses and vote for someone they know isn't good for America.
Talk of a viable third party is merely talk as long as folks vote the same old way anyway.
Sometimes one has to BE the change!
It seems people are waiting for a viable third party candidate to appear. In the mean time they will vote for someone other than the best candidate. Not sure how they expect a third party candidate to appear without starting someplace other than the top but here we are.
Sounds like the lefties are setting Biden up to be given the hook off center stage and away from the limelight due to "health issues"
The big question for today is, who is waiting in the wings to replace him before the convention.
I think this election thingy is about to get very interesting.
Past week I have seen at least 5 news blurbs saying Michelle is ready.
Blurbs from my news feeds only and sources I wouldn't consider reliable, but hey even the national enquirer reported a political sex scandal correctly and made a prez candidate drop out.....once.
The only thing keeping Biden in office and somehow running for another term is the Kamala problem. They have no idea how to deny her the nomination, especially since the primaries were essentially uncontested.
The desperation has really set in, they dragged him out tonight to speak and he called el-sisi of Egypt the President of Mexico. It’s just sad. What’s even sadder is the shilling and excuses from CNN and the like. It’s a cult protecting their leader.
im old enough to remember when misspelling potato was disqualifying for public office. Every time he’s allowed to speak in public there’s a ‘potato like gaffe.
Dan Quayle was destroyed by the whole potato or potatoe gaff.
Not according to Candace Bergen / Murphy Brown...
Leftists getting their marching orders from leftist actresses/actors- what else in new?
[Deleted]
Once they get down to name calling, we know we won the debate.
No "name calling", just a description of reality.
If you were interested in reality, you would have called out Biden for lying about what was in the report yesterday.
You agree with Biden's handlers and their policies. I doubt you give a shit about Biden.
As soon as you remove Trump from the Republican nomination, I will call for Biden to retire.
I don't remove candidates from ballots. That is something that democrats and Putin try to do.
that was a collective "you" Vic.
Biden has completely competent people advising him, and he will be fine.
Yep, part and parcel for militant “state” Secretaries of State.
Democrat “Democracy” in action ……
We have to destroy it in order to save it.
You just heard about the "competent" people who told Joe to open the southern border.
So now having a president that can't think for himself but has good people advising him is acceptable.
Defending the indefensible.
Yes 13.2.1 is proof that you've lost.
Some say the former 'president' shouldn't be removed from ballots because it denies voters a choice. But the former 'president' is being removed from ballots because he tried to deny voters a choice, deny voters their votes.
Some seem to think that since the former 'president' didn't get away with it, that he shouldn't be held accountable either.
What really makes this pathetic is there are many who admittingly think Traitor Joe is the right choice to run the country.
This is where I wished there was well named, well funded moderate 3rd party candidate was waiting. They could come out right now and probably sweep the polls with a proper campaign. It would take a bit of money to get all the air time they would need to eclipse the Biden/Trump circus, but it could be done. Recent polling suggests Haley would clean up in a general by double digits where Biden and Trump are essentially tied.
Sadly will still only have the choices of Sleepy or Dopy.
Clearly. The D and R parties are controlled by a minority of their electorate yet they collectively determine the candidates for PotUS. A cohesive minority within each party can amass enough votes to override the wishes of the majority in the party. Worse, a small minority of the party (those who respond to polls and those who vote) are the ones ultimately controlling the nominee.
So the majority of the nation can be entirely against Biden or Trump for the presidency yet a small minority is calling the shots.
If EVER there was a time to invoke the 25th Amendment, that time is now.................except for the consequences of doing so. Kamala? Hell no. This is one hell of a rock and a hard place example.
The debate is over. Rachel Maddow says Joe is not too old to be president because he rides a bike. You can't argue with that far left wing logic.
lol ….. Madcow logic. Classic.
Maddow? isn't she the one who said trump paid no taxes and then proved he paid 38 million in one year? and then still insisted he paid no taxes? and then some morons still repeat that?
Yep, I think the left actually calls her Saint Maddow
It must make their eyes twitch knowing that Tucker Carlson gave her, her start in TV with her first gig. She actually credits him for that.
And Trump should because he is such an eloquent speaker?
Please show me where I said that
Try to remember..,
So the special prosecutor determined that while laws had been broken, but there would be no charges because Biden is old, fragile and a bit addled with numerous memory issues.
Sounds almost like non compos mentis
He remembered a recent conversation with a guy that has been dead several decades, interesting I wonder which other characters from history he talks to
Where did you get your doctorate or your law degree??????
That probably sounded pithy and funny in your head, not so much once you write it down.
[Deleted]
I've got to say it must be a real problem to be stuck between the devil and the deep blue sea.
Are we really at the point to where we are arguing over who is less senile and should therefore lead the country?
Pretty much but it’s also pretty clear which is worse off. To the unbiased that is.
Looks like it. Personally, I would go for Biden, if only because he looks the least capable of doing damage willingly. Trump looks like he would be a violent dementoid.
Yes, because the 4 years he was ALREADY in office clearly showed that s/
Yes, Bugsy, they did / do! Trump's was a FAILED PRESIDENCY!
Well, maybe if you replied to something I actually responded to , maybe you would have a point s/
If you have been deemed an incompetent, confused old fool by a special prosecutor, how can you continue to be Commander in Chief?
Joe still has it in him to whoop Trump...
I did Bugsy! I did reply to your comment...
Are you incapable of understanding that?
Yes...yes you did reply to my comment. Very good.
Problem is...it had nothing to do with what I posted.
I'll give you another try.
Actually...it was stupid.
Seems that we are - neither Biden nor Trump should be leading any other than a group of Christmas carolers
what do you have against Christmas carolers ?
Ig
You are right might comment could be seen as an insult to carolers, I apologize
They would start singing Silent Night and halfway through they would be singing Grandma got run over by a Reindeer.
Age and cognitive decline are certainly issues with both.
My main issues are integrity and the desire to do what is good for the nation over what is good for self. Trump tried to steal the 2020 election through coercion, lying, fraud, and incitement. That alone should be enough to eliminate him from consideration.
Biden is not good for the country, period.
Anyone willing to say he is and are willing to vote for him are fooling only themselves.
Trump is an order of magnitude worse.
Which is one reason I won't vote for him.
of course, most people can now recognize Biden is unfit, which is why I won't vote for him, either.
I see no point in voting for unfit people to run things, [deleted]
The 2024 election is like the special Olympics for presidential politics in America. Yes the world is laughing at you, not with you.
The world is laughing at the former 'president' and the maga'ts - not the decent and sane folks.
Sojourner
You are right I cam across this and think it applies perfectly to the major parties and their candidates in 2024