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3 shot after gunfire erupts at Eid al-Fitr event in West Philadelphia marking end of Ramadan - 6abc Philadelphia

  

Category:  News & Politics

Via:  vic-eldred  •  one month ago  •  115 comments

By:   abc (abc Philadelphia)

3 shot after gunfire erupts at Eid al-Fitr event in West Philadelphia marking end of Ramadan - 6abc Philadelphia
Three people were shot after gunfire erupted in a Philadelphia park where an event to mark the end of the Muslim holy month of Ramadan was underway.

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T


PHILADELPHIA (WPVI) -- Three people were shot and five people are in custody after gunfire erupted in a Philadelphia park where an Eid al-Fitr event, to mark the end of the Muslim holy month of Ramadan, was taking place Wednesday.

Gunfire erupted around 2:30 p.m. near Clara Muhammad Square in the area of 47th Street and Wyalusing Avenue in West Philadelphia as an estimated 1,000 people were at the celebration.

Philadelphia Police Commissioner Kevin Bethel said two factions inside the park exchanged gunfire, and some 30 shots were fired.

Amid the gunfire, one of the officers engaged an armed 15-year-old male suspect, shooting that teen in the shoulder and leg. The officer secured the gun and then took the teen to the hospital in stable condition, police said.

Sources tell Action News that the teen was armed with a rifle, however, it's still unknown if the weapon was fired.

The discharging officer has been placed on administrative duty pending the outcome of the investigation.

A total of five weapons were recovered at the scene.

Investigators say the five suspects include four males and a female. They are between the ages of 15 and 21.

What we know about the victims


A 22-year-old man suffered a gunshot wound to the stomach, while a 15-year-old boy arrived at the hospital with a gunshot wound to his hands.

Both victims are listed as stable. Police say there were no fatalities as a result of the shooting.

The 22-year-old was identified by family as Nhashon "Tawfiq" Richards. His father, Corey Taylor, told Action News that his sone was alert and responsive but will likely need surgery.

Nhashon "Tawfiq" Richards

After having time to reflect on what happened, Taylor said he forgives the shooters because of his faith.

"I forgive them because I want Allah to forgive me for everything I did in my lifetime," Taylor said. "I'm not perfect -- that's how it's easy for me to forgive, I don't mean that you go allow someone to hurt you again but I try to lead by example. I try not to be a hypocrite."

Amid the chaos, Bethel said a police vehicle struck a 15-year-old and she suffered a fractured leg. Bethel said the department is sending prayers to her and will be reaching out to her family.

Philadelphia police update on shooting amid celebration to mark end of Ramadan

Video from Chopper 6 showed multiple tables, chairs and tents that were abandoned in the chaos.

"I just saw everybody just running and frantic, you know, everybody. The kids, people's strollers getting turned over, everybody screaming," said one witness who did not want to be identified. "I heard fireworks... and it sort of turned into gunshots."

"Everybody just ran away like it was an elephant stampede," she continued.

Philadelphia woman says gunfire chaos was like an 'elephant stampede'

Police officers could be seen conducting a meticulous search for shell casings and evidence of gunfire.

Commissioner Bethel praised the efforts of the Philadelphia Police Department, stating, "I'm extremely proud of the men and women who continued to serve in this department and the actions they took today."

He also lauded the bravery of civilians who, amidst the chaos, ensured the safety of children by removing them from harm's way.

Bethel underscored the unexpected nature of the incident, given the celebratory context, "We know that the majority, 99% of the individuals at this event, are good people who wanted to have a good time."

The violence, according to Bethel, was a stark reminder of the issues facing the community, particularly concerning youth engagement in gun violence.

According to our 6abc Data Journalism Team, there have been 266 shooting victims in Philadelphia so far this year. Of those victims, 30 of them are under 18 years old.

"It's stupid and it's nonsense. Peoples' lives is priceless, appreciate and value your life," said Taylor.

'You had little babies out there'


Najah Bey said her cousin Nhashon "Tawfiq" Richards was shot while fleeing the gunfire.

"We applied pressure and they put him right into the cop car," she recalled.

Relative of Philadelphia shooting victim recalls chaos fleeing gunfire

Bey said it was a happy day filled with cultural and religious celebration, and it just quickly turned to chaos.

"It was very scary to see all of them people laying down on the ground like that in fear of their lives. It's sad in Philadelphia, it's very sad. You can't even have a celebration without having to worry about somebody getting shot. It's sad. You had little babies out there," she said.

Zania Weatherford had just gone to her car for a moment when she heard the gunfire and saw people running across the street. She called relatives at the event to make sure they were safe.

"Last year, someone set off firecrackers and scared everyone," Weatherford said. "This is just a celebration of life for God to forgive us for our sins. There's one month that God chains the devil down, so whoever did this can't even blame the devil."

The shooting incident is under investigation. Local law enforcement are collaborating with federal partners, including the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives and the FBI.

Chopper 6 overhead after gunfire erupts at Eid al-Fitr event in Parkside on April 10, 2024.

What is Eid al-Fitr?


As the holy month of Ramadan comes to an end, Muslims are celebrating the holiday of Eid al-Fitr.

Eid marks the end of Ramadan, a month when devout Muslims fast daily from dawn to sunset.

Eid al-Fitr means the feast, or festival, of breaking the fast. The holiday is marked with congregational prayers and festivities, which typically include family visits, gatherings, and new clothes.

The Associated Press contributed to this report.


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Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1  seeder  Vic Eldred    one month ago

Isn't multiculturalism wonderful!


The fact is that Biden campaigned for president promising an array of enticements for people to break our laws to enter this country. He promised amnesty for those already here, taxpayer-provided health care, work permits, support for sanctuary cities, and a cessation of deportations.

Border Crisis Is No Accident. It’s Biden Making Good on Campaign Promises. | The Heritage Foundation

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
1.1  evilone  replied to  Vic Eldred @1    one month ago
Isn't multiculturalism wonderful!

Violence is the fault of mulitculturalism? Wow...

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.1.1  seeder  Vic Eldred  replied to  evilone @1.1    one month ago

Yes sir.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1.1.2  JohnRussell  replied to  evilone @1.1    one month ago

[deleted][]

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
1.1.3  Greg Jones  replied to  evilone @1.1    one month ago

Some cultures are more into violence than others.

It's obvious who the perps are and it's not necessarily all white nationalists.

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
1.1.4  evilone  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.1    one month ago

So are you saying peace can only be attained through "ethnic cleansing"?

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
1.1.5  evilone  replied to  Greg Jones @1.1.3    one month ago
Some cultures are more into violence than others.

Sure. Gang culture being one of them, but I'm pretty sure that wasn't what Vic or you are talking about.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.1.6  seeder  Vic Eldred  replied to  evilone @1.1.4    one month ago

No, you and John are trying to pretend I'm saying that. [deleted]

[] Rational human beings know what I'm saying. Two opposing cultures cannot live together peacefully.


 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
1.1.7  Greg Jones  replied to  evilone @1.1.4    one month ago

He didn't say that. Each culture needs to deal with its own bad actors, instead of playing the victim and blaming others.

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
1.1.8  evilone  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.6    one month ago
No, you and John are trying to pretend I'm saying that.

I'm not pretending anything. I'm trying to find out what your issue with multiculturalism really is. 

Two opposing cultures cannot live together peacefully.

The operative word here is "opposing", but I'm not sure where that fits into multiculturalism. Friction usually comes about where one group wants the others to conform to their standard. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.1.9  seeder  Vic Eldred  replied to  evilone @1.1.8    one month ago
I'm not pretending anything. I'm trying to find out what your issue with multiculturalism really is. 

As someone famous around here likes to say "don't put words in my mouth."


The operative word here is "opposing", but I'm not sure where that fits into multiculturalism.

I find that hard to believe.


Friction usually comes about where one group wants the others to conform to their standard. 

Which would that be? The one that has the wide-open door or the one that chants "death to America?"

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
1.1.10  evilone  replied to  Greg Jones @1.1.7    one month ago
Each culture needs to deal with its own bad actors, instead of playing the victim and blaming others.

Violence seems to have become ingrained into American culture. We should deal with it without demonizing (and I'm not pointing fingers at anyone here) broad swaths of people. Muslim Americans are no more, or less, prone to violence than Christian Americans. Violence transcends culture.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
1.1.11  Ozzwald  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.6    one month ago
Two opposing cultures cannot live together peacefully.

By opposing cultures, it appears you mean the cultures of Muslims and Christians.  Ain't religion wonderful?!?!???

 
 
 
afrayedknot
Junior Quiet
1.1.12  afrayedknot  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.6    one month ago

“Two opposing cultures cannot live together peacefully.”

That could be the saddest statement imaginable. Go to a kindergarten class where multicultural children coexist with joy and friendship. Hate is learned, hate is inculcated, and hate is detrimental to every aspect of our society.

It doesn’t have to be this way. Let us be better and follow our children’s lead and quit pretending it impossible to get along. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.1.13  seeder  Vic Eldred  replied to  Ozzwald @1.1.11    one month ago
By opposing cultures, it appears you mean the cultures of Muslims and Christians. 

Wrong again. I mean American and Muslim cultures. They aren't even close.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.1.14  seeder  Vic Eldred  replied to  afrayedknot @1.1.12    one month ago

Examples are everywhere: Explain the difference in how American culture treats homosexuals and Muslim culture treats them.

Tell us you don't see any conflict there. 

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
1.1.15  evilone  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.9    one month ago
As someone famous around here likes to say "don't put words in my mouth."

Yes, you shouldn't do that. It's rude.

I find that hard to believe.

So if "opposing" is not the operative word then we are back to "cultures" and inferring only people who come from the same backgrounds can coexist? 

Which would that be?

It would apply to any and all groups that thinks they are entitled to dictate cultural norms.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.1.16  seeder  Vic Eldred  replied to  evilone @1.1.15    one month ago
It would apply to any and all groups that thinks they are entitled to dictate cultural norms.

That wasn't even a good dodge.

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
1.1.17  evilone  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.16    one month ago
That wasn't even a good dodge.

I'm not the one dodging and I'm not also not the one demonizing whole cultures of people as violent.  

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.1.18  seeder  Vic Eldred  replied to  evilone @1.1.17    one month ago

Can anyone answer the question in post 1.1.14 ?

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
1.1.19  evilone  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.18    one month ago
Can anyone answer the question in post 1.1.14 ?

The family of Mathew Shepard may want to, sure.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.1.20  seeder  Vic Eldred  replied to  evilone @1.1.19    one month ago

How about you?

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
1.1.21  Krishna  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.6    one month ago
Rational human beings know what I'm saying. Two opposing cultures cannot live together peacefully.

What, exactly, does that term mean? ("Opposing cultures").???

Which cultures are the most "opposing"?

And-- which are the "least opposing"?

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
1.1.22  evilone  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.20    one month ago
How about you?

Last year there were over 550 state laws targeting queer people. I don't see a lot of difference between the attitudes of some   Americans and some Muslims. People in America are still killed because they are queer, just as they are in other countries and other cultures.

The bottom line is that violence happens in all cultures as it's not a cultural issue as opposed to a human issue. If one wants into the numbers and statistics, people commit acts of violence more often in their own homes and neighborhoods than they do elsewhere.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
1.1.23  Sean Treacy  replied to  evilone @1.1.19    one month ago

What does a drug murder from last century have to do with how America treats homosexuals?

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
1.1.24  Krishna  replied to  Krishna @1.1.21    one month ago
What, exactly, does that term mean? ("Opposing cultures").???

Which cultures are the most "opposing"?

And-- which are the " least opposing"?

And-- are some "cultures" more homogenous than others? jrSmiley_26_smiley_image.gif

Or are some simply more "pasteurized"? jrSmiley_26_smiley_image.gif jrSmiley_26_smiley_image.gif jrSmiley_26_smiley_image.gif

(Apologies if this comment is a bit off topic, but I'm obviously trying to "milk this topic for all its worth"!)

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
1.1.25  Ozzwald  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.13    one month ago
I mean American and Muslim cultures. They aren't even close.

And what is the difference other than religion?

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
1.1.26  Ozzwald  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.14    one month ago
Explain the difference in how American culture treats homosexuals and Muslim culture treats them.

Easy, the difference is secular and theocratic.

 
 
 
Igknorantzruls
Freshman Quiet
1.1.27  Igknorantzruls  replied to  Krishna @1.1.24    one month ago
but I'm obviously trying to "milk this topic for all its worth"!)

I only do that 2% of the time, but I do find this article interesting as it is in my neck of the woods. They didn't elaborate on identities of the shot, and the shooters, or did i miss something ? I spent a lot of time in West Philly a few years back, and had weapons pulled on us on some of our jobs, witnessed shootings, and more than I would like to divulge. In economically depressed urban areas of high density, irregardless of any multiculturism, sexual orientation, or race, there will always be conflicts. It is human nature and when by design, it isn't difficult to see why this shit happens.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.1.28  seeder  Vic Eldred  replied to  evilone @1.1.22    one month ago
I don't see a lot of difference between the attitudes of some Americans and some Muslims.

[ deleted ] [ ] sees no difference between America's "LBGTQ" rights provisions ( 9 Supreme Court Cases That Shaped LGBTQ Rights in America | TIME) and Muslims tossing gays off of roof tops.

Then he compares killings that are against the law & culture of America to the murders of Muslims in Muslim countries where they are legal.[ ]

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.1.29  seeder  Vic Eldred  replied to  Ozzwald @1.1.25    one month ago
And what is the difference other than religion?

Antisemitism has surged in certain parts of the US in the wake of the start of the Israel-Hamas war. 

Here are the Muslims in America:




THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
1.1.30  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.29    one month ago

What an asswipe...............

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
1.1.31  Ozzwald  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.29    one month ago
Antisemitism has surged in certain parts of the US in the wake of the start of the Israel-Hamas war.

Antisemitism is just another religious issue.

THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE

Which is exactly what I said, religion.  Ain't it grand....

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.1.32  seeder  Vic Eldred  replied to  Ozzwald @1.1.31    one month ago
Which is exactly what I said, religion

The problem with your little declaration is that Jews don't advocate killing non-Jews.

Are you seeing the difference yet?

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
1.1.33  CB  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.1    one month ago

Our country has been multicultural from its beginning and the majority of us live together peacefully, as I am sure you know. One has to wonder why take this OPPORTUNITY to spread (more) division between people. 

Furthermore, I am pretty sure MAGAs love guns. . . so several being 'deployed' and even fired one or more should be "glorious.' That is, I know this is not a gripe about guns! I just know it is not! 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.1.34  seeder  Vic Eldred  replied to  CB @1.1.33    one month ago

Our country has been known as a melting pot for a reason. The legal immigrants who came here wanted to be Americans.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
1.1.35  CB  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.14    one month ago

Don't give yourselves, plural, to big of a pat on the back. . . we see effort with expectation of more of it put into rolling back homosexual progress in the United States. Case in point: Justice Clarence Thomas wants to see a challenge come up to SCOTUS on same-sex marriage so (he hopes) him and other conservative justices can repeal its precedence.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
1.1.36  CB  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.34    one month ago
Explain the difference in how American culture treats homosexuals and Muslim culture treats them.

And it is because it is a melting pot that you do not see more conflicts than are already being molasses-ly slow to end! 

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
1.1.37  CB  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.14    one month ago
Examples are everywhere: Explain the difference in how American culture treats homosexuals and Muslim culture treats them.Tell us you don't see any conflict there. 

You moved the goalpost when you went from talking about U.S. culture to cultural aspects overseas. Homosexuals are treated more or less the same as MAGAs and White Evangelical Christians treat us in the United States, , , for U.S. Muslims either location/position softens hard hearts or U.S. Muslims don't want to end up in a U.S. prison for harming people who are not harming them simply because of religiously taught HATRED

BTW, this is the larger problem I see with this 28 years old. . .he 'deployed' something like (or actually was) an IED. Uh-uh! That is serious! It's not a regular thing for our country and so I am shocked and horrified over it (and hope it is a one-off). We don't want IEDs 'littering' our country! I know I don't. Keep that bull out of our country! No Sir!

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.1.38  seeder  Vic Eldred  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.28    one month ago

I will say it again:

How do you compare a country that has enacted gay rights with regimes that endorse the killing of gays?

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
1.1.39  Ozzwald  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.32    one month ago
The problem with your little declaration is that Jews don't advocate killing non-Jews.

Their bible does.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
1.1.40  Ozzwald  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.38    one month ago

How do you compare a country that has enacted gay rights with regimes that endorse the killing of gays?

Gay rights which would never have come about without a Democratically lead administration.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.1.41  seeder  Vic Eldred  replied to  Ozzwald @1.1.40    one month ago

That is not an answer.

It is 10:30 AM and they are lurking.

 
 
 
Snuffy
Professor Participates
1.1.42  Snuffy  replied to  Ozzwald @1.1.39    one month ago
The problem with your little declaration is that Jews don't advocate killing non-Jews.
Their bible does.

Bullshit plain and simple. You cannot prove this is honest and truthful because you cannot just pull shit out of thin air and state it's the truth. 

I) The Murder of Non-Jews is Murder (This section is based on  Entziklopedia Talmudit , Vol. 5, cols. 355-358, s.v.  Goy ; Rabbis Yitzhak Shapira and Yosef Elitzur,  Torat Hamelekh , Samaria, 2000, pp. 17-27; Rabbi M. M. Kasher,  Torah Sheleimah , Vol. 17, pp. 77-78, paragraphs 263-264; Rabbi J. D. Eisenstien,  Otzar Yisrael , Vol. 10, New York, 1913, pp. 12-14, s.v. Retzihah ).

As Rachel Fraenkel, the mother of Naftali hy”d, said: “There is no difference between blood and blood. Murder is murder, whatever the nationality or the age. There is no justification, no forgiveness, and no atonement for any murder.” ( Walla Hadashot , July 2, 2014) “The last will [of the three murdered boys] was of love and humaneness. Spilling innocent blood is against morality and the Torah, which is the basis for all of us.” ( Walla Hadashot , July 8, 2014)

Murder is forbidden in a number of different places in the Torah. Genesis 9:5-6 and  Sanhedrin  56a list murder as one of the Seven Laws of the Sons of Noah; the Ten Commandments include “ Lo tirzah “, “you shall not murder” (Exodus 20:13); while Exodus 21:14 outlaws premeditated murder.

All of the Sages and the classic halakhic authorities agree that it is forbidden for a Jew to murder a non-Jew, but they explain this prohibition in different ways. Some rabbis say that it is forbidden for a Jew to murder a non-Jew since Jews are also obligated by the Seven Laws of the Sons of Noah (Issi ben Akiva on Exodus 21:14 in  Mekhilta Mishpatim, Parashah  4, ed. Horowitz-Rabin, p. 263 coupled with  Sanhedrin  59a).

Others say that a Jew may not murder a Jew or a Gentile because of  Lo Tirzah  (Rabbi Eliezer ben Natan, Mainz, d. 1170,  Sefer Ra’avan  to  Bava Kamma  113a, ed. Samloi, 1926, fol. 194d).

Maimonides ( Sefer Hamitzvot, Lo Ta’aseh , No. 289, but see below) and  Sefer Hahinukh  (ed. Chavel, No. 34, p. 91) seem to say that Lo Tirzah  applies equally to  all  human beings.

Others say that this is a Rabbinic prohibition based on  Avodah Zarah  26a (Rabbi Eliezer of Metz, d. 1198,  Sefer Yere’im Hashalem , Vilna, 1892, No. 175).

The  Mekhilta  mentioned above and Maimonides ( Hilkhot Rotzeah 2:11; the reading in 1:1 is the result of censorship) say that it is forbidden for a Jew to kill a non-Jew, but that the punishment will come from God and not from a court of law.

A powerful expression of the Sages’ opposition to  all  murder is found in a famous Mishnah (Sanhedrin 4:5) in its original version as found in  manuscripts and Genizah fragments (as proved by Prof. E. E. Urbach,  Tarbitz  40 [5731], pp. 268-284):

Therefore Adam was created alone to teach you that whoever destroys  one soul  is considered by Scripture as if he had destroyed the entire world, and whoever sustains  one soul  is considered by Scripture as if he had sustained the entire world.

Later versions of this Mishnah added “one [Jewish] soul”, but the original reading of this Mishnah does not distinguish between destroying the life of a Jew and of a Gentile.

What Does Jewish Law Say About the Murder of Muhammed Abu Khdeir and Other Attacks Against Innocent Arabs? - The Schechter Institutes

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
1.1.43  CB  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.38    one month ago

You don't. As I am pretty sure MAGAs politically-speaking had little to nothing to do with homosexuals getting rights in our country. Keep asking, the answer will come back nearly the same every time. 

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
1.1.44  Krishna  replied to  Ozzwald @1.1.39    one month ago
The problem with your little declaration is that Jews don't advocate killing non-Jews.
Their bible does.

Bibles don't kill people-- people kill people!

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
1.1.45  Krishna  replied to  Ozzwald @1.1.39    one month ago
The problem with your little declaration is that Jews don't advocate killing non-Jews.
Their bible does.

Hi Ozzwald. Just read your comment again, and I was curious-- have you ever actually known and people who were Jewish?

If so-- what were they like?

I have and have had friends from different backgrounds-- including some who were Jewish. And for the most part they were pretty decent people! 

Perhaps your experience with Jews has been different?

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
1.1.46  Ozzwald  replied to  Snuffy @1.1.42    one month ago
Bullshit plain and simple.

2 Chronicles 15:12-13

And they entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and with all their soul, but that whoever would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, should be put to death, whether young or old, man or woman".

Luke 19:27

But as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slaughter them before me.’”

Matthew 10:34

“Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword".

Ezekiel 35:7-9

I will make Mount Seir a waste and a desolation, and I will cut off from it all who come and go. And I will fill its mountains with the slain. On your hills and in your valleys and in all your ravines those slain with the sword shall fall. I will make you a perpetual desolation, and your cities shall not be inhabited. Then you will know that I am the Lord".

1 Samuel 15:2-3

Thus says the Lord of hosts, ‘I have noted what Amalek did to Israel in opposing them on the way when they came up out of Egypt. Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’”

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
1.1.47  Ozzwald  replied to  Krishna @1.1.44    one month ago
Bibles don't kill people-- people kill people!

And too many people kill people because their holy book told them to.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
1.1.48  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Ozzwald @1.1.47    one month ago
And too many people kill people because their holy book told them to.

Our typical DA's are to stupid to let the homicide juries know the killer's true motivation.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
1.1.49  Ozzwald  replied to  Krishna @1.1.45    one month ago
Hi Ozzwald. Just read your comment again, and I was curious-- have you ever actually known and people who were Jewish? If so-- what were they like?

They were just like anyone else.  Some were nice and good friends, some were not so nice.

I have and have had friends from different backgrounds-- including some who were Jewish. And for the most part they were pretty decent people! 

The vast majority that I know are the same.

Perhaps your experience with Jews has been different?

Why would you ask that?  I don't see where I even implied such a thing.

The bible tells people that it is okay to own slaves, kill nonbelievers, commit pedophilia, and even more atrocities.  That does not reflect on the people, most are unaware of the actual words in the bible, many know them and disregard them, and many are Christians in name only.  They don't teach the bad stuff in Sunday school.

I try to judge people based on who they are and their actions, not what some invisible sky fairy is trying to whisper in their ears.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
1.1.50  Ozzwald  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @1.1.48    one month ago

Our typical DA's are to stupid to let the homicide juries know the killer's true motivation.

Which has absolutely nothing to do with anything I have said.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
1.1.51  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Ozzwald @1.1.46    one month ago

Aren't all the Amalek and Canaanites already dead?

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
1.1.52  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Ozzwald @1.1.50    one month ago

 Of course it does, you said, "And too many people kill people because their holy book told them to 1.1.47

 
 
 
Snuffy
Professor Participates
1.1.53  Snuffy  replied to  Ozzwald @1.1.46    one month ago

Bravo, you found some passages in the bible that sort of fit the bill for the bilge you pushed. If you keep looking you can find passages where gay sex is forbidden along with a bunch of other things. But you better toss out the lines from Luke and Matthew, New Testament books didn't make it into the Tanakh. Only the books from the Old Testament are included.

But you should read the full chapters in order to get the full context of what is being talked about. Nowhere in there does it say it's ok to just go out and kill non-Jews. 

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
1.1.54  Ozzwald  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @1.1.52    one month ago
Of course it does, you said, "And too many people kill people because their holy book told them to 1.1.47

Which has nothing to do with DA's or juries.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
1.1.55  Ozzwald  replied to  Snuffy @1.1.53    one month ago
Bravo, you found some passages in the bible that sort of fit the bill for the bilge you pushed.

I listed a few of them, but not all.

If you keep looking you can find passages where gay sex is forbidden along with a bunch of other things.

Like wearing mixed fabric, eating shellfish, and shaving your beard among many others.

But you better toss out the lines from Luke and Matthew, New Testament books didn't make it into the Tanakh.

Why didn't you quote them?  Is it because mine vastly outnumber yours, and the contradictions put the validity of the entire bible into jeopardy?  Remember, old or new testament, it is still the same god.  Isn't it?

Only the books from the Old Testament are included.

Only quotes from the BIBLE are included.

But you should read the full chapters in order to get the full context of what is being talked about.

Pretty cut and dry.  Kill anyone that does not seek the god of Israel.

Nowhere in there does it say it's ok to just go out and kill non-Jews. 

2 Chronicles 15:12-13

And they entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and with all their soul, but that whoever would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, should be put to death, whether young or old, man or woman".

Luke 19:27

But as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slaughter them before me.’”

1 Samuel 15:2-3

Thus says the Lord of hosts, ‘I have noted what Amalek did to Israel in opposing them on the way when they came up out of Egypt. Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’”

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
1.1.56  Greg Jones  replied to  evilone @1.1.10    one month ago
"Muslim Americans are no more, or less, prone to violence than Christian Americans. Violence transcends culture."

By the actions of their various factions, Muslims appear to be a culture more prone to violence. 

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
1.1.57  Greg Jones  replied to  evilone @1.1.19    one month ago
"The family of Mathew Shepard may want to, sure"

He was killed by another gay man, a former sex partner, over drugs.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
1.1.58  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Ozzwald @1.1.54    one month ago

Yes it does, you cited religious beliefs as the motivation for too many killings.  Motivations that apparently aren’t brought to the juries attention.

Perhaps it’s not that the DA’s are wrong, but that you are.  Are you up to admitting your mistake?

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.1.59  Tessylo  replied to  Ozzwald @1.1.55    one month ago

Some prefer to defend the indefensible.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.1.60  Tessylo  replied to  Greg Jones @1.1.57    one month ago

That's a horrific and ignorant lie.  He was brutally beaten, tortured and left to die by two straight men, not his boyfriend

That is sick and hateful and a LIE.

 
 
 
Snuffy
Professor Participates
1.1.61  Snuffy  replied to  Ozzwald @1.1.55    one month ago
But you better toss out the lines from Luke and Matthew, New Testament books didn't make it into the Tanakh.

Why didn't you quote them?  Is it because mine vastly outnumber yours, and the contradictions put the validity of the entire bible into jeopardy?  Remember, old or new testament, it is still the same god.  Isn't it?

Only the books from the Old Testament are included.

Only quotes from the BIBLE are included.

Go all the way back to your post at 1.1.39 which started our little discussion. Your statement was very clear, that the Jewish Bible advocates the killing of non-Jews. The Jewish Bible is called The Tanakh. It is comprised of the books of the Old Testament and does not include books from the New Testament. So you cannot include books from the New Testament based on your line where you state the Jewish Bible advocates the killing of non-Jews.

Hebrew Bible , collection of writings that was first compiled and preserved as the sacred books of the  Jewish  people. It also  constitutes  a large portion of the  Christian   Bible , known as the  Old Testament . Except for a few passages in  Aramaic , appearing mainly in the  apocalyptic   Book of Daniel , these scriptures were written originally in  Hebrew  during the period from 1200 to 100  BCE . The Hebrew Bible probably reached its current form about the 2nd century  CE . Hebrew Bible | Definition, Books, & History | Britannica

On the killing of non-Jews:

2 Chronicles 15:12-13 And they entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and with all their soul, but that   whoever would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, should be put to death, whether young or old, man or woman" .

This is not non-Jews, it is any one who does not seek the Lord. This was an attempt to remove idol worship from the lands governed by Asa who was king at the time.

15  The Spirit of God came on   Azariah son of Oded.   He went out to meet Asa and said to him, “Listen to me, Asa and all Judah and Benjamin. The   Lord   is with you   when you are with him.   If you seek   him, he will be found by you, but if you forsake him, he will forsake you.   For a long time Israel was without the true God, without a priest to teach   and without the law.   But in their distress they turned to the   Lord , the God of Israel, and sought him,   and he was found by them.   In those days it was not safe to travel about,   for all the inhabitants of the lands were in great turmoil.   One nation was being crushed by another and one city by another,   because God was troubling them with every kind of distress.   But as for you, be strong   and do not give up, for your work will be rewarded.”

When Asa heard these words and the prophecy of Azariah son of [ a ]   Oded the prophet, he took courage. He removed the detestable idols   from the whole land of Judah and Benjamin and from the towns he had captured   in the hills of Ephraim. He repaired the altar   of the   Lord   that was in front of the portico of the   Lord ’s temple.

Then he assembled all Judah and Benjamin and the people from Ephraim, Manasseh and Simeon who had settled among them, for large numbers   had come over to him from Israel when they saw that the   Lord   his God was with him.

10  They assembled at Jerusalem in the third month   of the fifteenth year of Asa’s reign.   11  At that time they sacrificed to the   Lord   seven hundred head of cattle and seven thousand sheep and goats from the plunder   they had brought back.   12  They entered into a covenant   to seek the   Lord ,   the God of their ancestors, with all their heart and soul.   13  All who would not seek the   Lord , the God of Israel, were to be put to death,   whether small or great, man or woman.   14  They took an oath to the   Lord   with loud acclamation, with shouting and with trumpets and horns.   15  All Judah rejoiced about the oath because they had sworn it wholeheartedly. They sought God   eagerly, and he was found by them. So the   Lord   gave them rest   on every side.

16  King Asa also deposed his grandmother Maakah   from her position as queen mother,   because she had made a repulsive image for the worship of Asherah.   Asa cut it down, broke it up and burned it in the Kidron Valley.   17  Although he did not remove the high places from Israel, Asa’s heart was fully committed to the   Lord   all his life.   18  He brought into the temple of God the silver and gold and the articles that he and his father had dedicated.

19  There was no more war until the thirty-fifth year of Asa’s reign.

2 Chronicles 15 NIV - Asa’s Reform - The Spirit of God came - Bible Gateway

This was for the people living in the lands that Asa was king of.  AS you can see from verse 9 above, it includes all of Judah and Benjamin, as well as the people from Ephraim, Manasseh and Simeon which at the time were lands governed by Asa. 

1 Samuel 15:2-3 Thus says the Lord of hosts, ‘I have noted what Amalek did to Israel in opposing them on the way when they came up out of Egypt. Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have.   Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’”

Indeed, retribution  for what the Amalek people did to the Israelites when they were coming out of Egypt. From Exodus 17, after the Israelites passed the Red Sea and camped at Rephidim, the Amalekites attacked them from behind. 

14  Then the  Lord  said to Moses, “Write  this on a scroll as something to be remembered and make sure that Joshua hears it, because I will completely blot out  the name of Amalek  from under heaven.” Exodus 17 NIV - Water From the Rock - The whole - Bible Gateway

A very specific group of people are named, not just non-Jews. 

And you continue to ignore current Jewish law. I provided the statements from a very prominent Rabbi in 1.1.42 where it is clear that murder is murder. A reposting of that part is this :

All of the Sages and the classic halakhic authorities agree that it is forbidden for a Jew to murder a non-Jew , but they explain this prohibition in different ways. Some rabbis say that it is forbidden for a Jew to murder a non-Jew since Jews are also obligated by the Seven Laws of the Sons of Noah (Issi ben Akiva on Exodus 21:14 in    Mekhilta Mishpatim, Parashah    4, ed. Horowitz-Rabin, p. 263 coupled with    Sanhedrin    59a).

Others say that a Jew may not murder a Jew or a Gentile because of    Lo Tirzah    (Rabbi Eliezer ben Natan, Mainz, d. 1170,    Sefer Ra’avan    to    Bava Kamma    113a, ed. Samloi, 1926, fol. 194d).

Maimonides (   Sefer Hamitzvot, Lo Ta’aseh   , No. 289, but see below) and    Sefer Hahinukh    (ed. Chavel, No. 34, p. 91) seem to say that   Lo Tirzah    applies equally to    all    human beings.

Others say that this is a Rabbinic prohibition based on    Avodah Zarah    26a (Rabbi Eliezer of Metz, d. 1198,    Sefer Yere’im Hashalem   , Vilna, 1892, No. 175).

The    Mekhilta    mentioned above and Maimonides (   Hilkhot Rotzeah   2:11; the reading in 1:1 is the result of censorship) say that it is forbidden for a Jew to kill a non-Jew, but that the punishment will come from God and not from a court of law.

A powerful expression of the Sages’ opposition to    all    murder is found in a famous Mishnah (Sanhedrin 4:5) in its original version as found in  manuscripts and Genizah fragments (as proved by Prof. E. E. Urbach,    Tarbitz    40 [5731], pp. 268-284):

Therefore Adam was created alone to teach you that whoever destroys    one soul    is considered by Scripture as if he had destroyed the entire world, and whoever sustains    one soul    is considered by Scripture as if he had sustained the entire world.

Later versions of this Mishnah added “one [Jewish] soul”, but the original reading of this Mishnah does not distinguish between destroying the life of a Jew and of a Gentile.
 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
1.1.62  Ozzwald  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @1.1.58    one month ago
Motivations that apparently aren’t brought to the juries attention.

Again off topic since this discussion is not about judicial proceedings, no matter how many time you try to deflect to that direction.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
1.1.63  Ozzwald  replied to  Greg Jones @1.1.57    one month ago
He was killed by another gay man, a former sex partner, over drugs.

While it is true that many homophobes appear to have gay tendencies which they are desperate to conceal, even to the point of violence, I have not seen any facts to indicate his killers were gay.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
1.1.64  Ozzwald  replied to  Tessylo @1.1.59    one month ago
Some prefer to defend the indefensible.

maga_hat_022819gn_lead.jpg

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
1.1.65  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Ozzwald @1.1.62    one month ago

No deflection, it an illustration that you assertion is erroneous.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
1.1.66  Ozzwald  replied to  Snuffy @1.1.61    one month ago
So you cannot include books from the New Testament based on your line where you state the Jewish Bible advocates the killing of non-Jews.

Pretty sure I only included the old testament.

This is not non-Jews, it is any one who does not seek the Lord.

So because it promotes killing other religious followers as well it doesn't count?  Are you really going to that defense?

This was for the people living in the lands that Asa was king of.  AS you can see from verse 9 above, it includes all of Judah and Benjamin, as well as the people from Ephraim, Manasseh and Simeon which at the time were lands governed by Asa.

So what?  My quotes still stand despite your attempt to spin.

Indeed, retribution  for what the Amalek people did to the Israelites when they were coming out of Egypt. From Exodus 17, after the Israelites passed the Red Sea and camped at Rephidim, the Amalekites attacked them from behind. 

So the god of vengeance told them to kill other people.  So what?

And you continue to ignore current Jewish law. I provided the statements from a very prominent Rabbi in 1.1.42 where it is clear that murder is murder.

So Rabbi's out-rank god himself.  Interesting religion.  Don't like god's commandments, not to worry a Rabbi can tell you just to ignore that part of god's commands.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.1.67  Tessylo  replied to  Ozzwald @1.1.63    one month ago

It was two 'men' who robbed him and Matthew allegedly made a sexual advance towards one of them which enraged the scumbag and he killed Matthew.

IT WAS NOT A GAY LOVER.  THAT IS AN IGNORANT LIE.  

Although I understand some feel that the appropriate penalty for making an unwanted sexual advance is to be beaten and tortured and left to die for threatening your 'manhood' or lack thereof.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.1.68  Tessylo  replied to  Greg Jones @1.1.57    one month ago

It's also sickens me that some voted up your ignorant and hateful lie.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
1.1.69  Ozzwald  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @1.1.65    one month ago
No deflection, it an illustration that you assertion is erroneous.

You're trying to imply that since defendants don't use the defense of "god told me to do it" in court, that the bible doesn't tell its followers to do it?  That is a sad and pitiful defense, and still not related to my statement.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
1.1.70  Ozzwald  replied to  Tessylo @1.1.68    one month ago
It's also sickens me that some voted up your ignorant and hateful lie.

MAGA clique even vote up obvious lies.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
1.1.71  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Ozzwald @1.1.69    one month ago
You're trying to imply that since defendants don't use the defense of "god told me to do it" in court,

No, I clearly was speaking of prosecutors not including religious beliefs as the killers motive.

That is a sad and pitiful defense

Not as sad as your biased beliefs in much of humanity.

 
 
 
afrayedknot
Junior Quiet
1.1.72  afrayedknot  replied to  Ozzwald @1.1.70    one month ago

“MAGA clique…”

There is some comfort in knowing that the psychotic sycophants posting on this site  neither represent the truth (which always will come to light) nor represent our reality (which will come to pass).
Again as always…Vote. 

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.1.73  Tessylo  replied to  Ozzwald @1.1.70    one month ago

Probably figures Matthew had it coming to him and it was warranted, like they feel about immigrants.  Less than human.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
1.1.74  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  afrayedknot @1.1.72    one month ago
“MAGA clique…”

?

Is there any evidence that Muslim celebrators were targeted?  Perhaps they were caught in the crossfire between to teen groups.

“Police on Thursday identified one of the five in custody as Kahbir Oglesby-Hicks, 21, of West Philadelphia. He faces charges related to guns, evading arrest and more.

The other four people in custody are two 15-year-old boys, a 16-year-old girl and a 16-year-old boy, police said.”

Two U.S. officials confirmed to CBS News the shooting does not appear to be an ideologically driven or targeted attack.”

Just some kids enjoying a day off from school.

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
Professor Silent
1.1.75  Mark in Wyoming   replied to  Greg Jones @1.1.57    one month ago

It was never proven the killer was homosexual himself , closeted or otherwise, though being in prison now it can be questioned, nor was it ever established or proven there had been a sexual relationship between the two, what was somewhat proven was there was drug dealings involving the two.

A lot of people get fucked up and even killed in the drug trade.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.1.76  Tessylo  replied to  Tessylo @1.1.73    one month ago

I see some are defending the indefensible by implying that Matthew's death had something to do with drugs.  That is also sickening and defense of the indefensible.  

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
1.1.77  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Mark in Wyoming @1.1.75    one month ago
A lot of people get fucked up and even killed in the drug trade.

A drug dealing, addicted, prostitute doesn’t make for a useful poster boy.

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
Professor Silent
1.1.78  Mark in Wyoming   replied to  Drinker of the Wry @1.1.77    one month ago

From talking to people involved, it was over weed.

Minor I would agree, but no dealer can let it be known they can be stiffed, no pun intended.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
1.1.79  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Mark in Wyoming @1.1.78    one month ago

I think it was over meth.

Here is an interesting article from an unlikely source:

Is ‘The Laramie Project’ a Convenient Untruth?

A new book about the Matthew Shepard murder challenges the theater community to reevaluate a cherished play.

August 11, 2014
 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.1.80  Tessylo  replied to  Tessylo @1.1.76    one month ago

More ignorant lies keep coming about the murder of this young man.  Such victim blaming is deplorable.  

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
1.1.81  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @1.1.77    one month ago

Telling the truth isn’t victim blaming, Mathew was clearly a victim and the killers were rightfully convicted.  The narrative that two, red neck cowboys went into a gay bar and killed Matthew because of homophobia is what is false.

John Stoltenberg is a gay-rights activist who lived with the feminist writer Andrea Dworkin until her death in 2005. He’s a long-time supporter of The Laramie Project , but has also blogged positively about The Book of Matt . “Keeping Matthew as the poster boy of gay-hate crime and ignoring the full tragedy of his story has been the agenda of many gay-movement leaders,” he says. “Ignoring the tragedies of Matthew’s life prior to his murder will do nothing to help other young men in our community who are sold for sex, ravaged by drugs, and generally exploited. They will remain invisible and lost.”

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.1.82  Tessylo  replied to  Tessylo @1.1.80    one month ago

Nothing but ignorance and lies and hate and victim blaming.  Sickening and deplorable.  

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.1.83  Tessylo  replied to  Tessylo @1.1.82    one month ago

NO truth to be found in such ignorance and hate.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
1.1.84  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Ozzwald @1.1.39    one month ago

Do you suspect Kahbir Oglesby-Hicks, 21, and four juveniles that have been arrested for their alleged roles in the shooting at the Eid al-Fitr celebration are Jewish?

Do you suspect that these five arrested hate Muslims?

 
 
 
Snuffy
Professor Participates
1.1.85  Snuffy  replied to  Ozzwald @1.1.66    one month ago
So you cannot include books from the New Testament based on your line where you state the Jewish Bible advocates the killing of non-Jews.
Pretty sure I only included the old testament.

Matthew and Luke are books in the New Testament. That's why I said you should not include them as The Tanakh is comprised of books from the Old Testament only.

You continue to spin and twist. You try to push that conditions from 2000+ years ago are still fully in force today when it's not. Don't forget about the Commandment 'Thou shall not kill'. The Amalek people attacked the Israelites before they were given The Commandments. And the time from Asa is a record of what happened and an attempted rationalization of why it happened. Or are you saying to actually believe that God came down and told them what to do.

And you continue to ignore current Jewish law. I provided the statements from a very prominent Rabbi in  1.1.42  where it is clear that murder is murder.
So Rabbi's out-rank god himself.  Interesting religion.  Don't like god's commandments, not to worry a Rabbi can tell you just to ignore that part of god's commands.

That's interesting spin as God provided a Commandment that said 'Thou shall not kill' and the statements I provided from the Rabbi clearly states that murder is murder and murder is wrong. So where is the Rabbi telling ANYBODY to ignore that Commandment? 

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
1.1.86  Ozzwald  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @1.1.71    one month ago
No, I clearly was speaking of prosecutors

But I am not, which is why you remain off topic.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
1.1.87  Ozzwald  replied to  Snuffy @1.1.85    one month ago
Matthew and Luke are books in the New Testament. That's why I said you should not include them as The Tanakh is comprised of books from the Old Testament only.

Jesus says the old testament is still valid.

Matthew 5:17-18, Jesus says, "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them".

You try to push that conditions from 2000+ years ago are still fully in force today when it's not.

So god has changed his own rules?  He was wrong the 1st time and god didn't know that things change?

Don't forget about the Commandment 'Thou shall not kill'.

Now look who's quoting the old testament.  Trying to have it both ways?

That's interesting spin as God provided a Commandment that said 'Thou shall not kill' and the statements I provided from the Rabbi clearly states that murder is murder and murder is wrong.

And as I posted earlier, god also commanded the deaths of multiple people including the rape and enslavement of children.  Why would an all knowing god command such contradictions? 

It's almost like the bible was nothing but a bunch of stories from various anonymous people who never consulted with each other to establish a consistency.

 
 
 
Snuffy
Professor Participates
1.1.88  Snuffy  replied to  Ozzwald @1.1.87    one month ago
Matthew and Luke are books in the New Testament. That's why I said you should not include them as The Tanakh is comprised of books from the Old Testament only.

Jesus says the old testament is still valid.

Matthew 5:17-18, Jesus says, "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them".

You're the one who pushed up in 1.1.39 that the Jewish Bible advocates the killing of non-Jews.

The problem with your little declaration is that Jews don't advocate killing non-Jews.
Their bible does.

In 1.1.66 to state that you are :

Pretty sure I only included the old testament.

So when called out that The Tanakh (the Jewish Bible) is made up of Old Testament books ONLY, you deflect to this?

You try to push that conditions from 2000+ years ago are still fully in force today when it's not.
So god has changed his own rules?  He was wrong the 1st time and god didn't know that things change?

So God cannot change how he does business? According to scripture, with the flood he wiped out almost all life on Earth and after sent the rainbow as his covenant that He would never do that again. So he does get to change his rules.

Don't forget about the Commandment 'Thou shall not kill'.
Now look who's quoting the old testament.  Trying to have it both ways?

Not sure where you get that argument from. I never got it wrong by trying to claim that The Tanakh included books from the New Testament. As The Tanakh is books from the Old Testament, then citing that commandment isn't wrong or trying to have it both ways. It's in proper context to support what the Rabbi stated.  You appear to be scrambling so hard on this that you no longer know what you are trying to say. You have been completely wrong in your statement that started this and continue to flail. 

That's interesting spin as God provided a Commandment that said 'Thou shall not kill' and the statements I provided from the Rabbi clearly states that murder is murder and murder is wrong.

And as I posted earlier, god also commanded the deaths of multiple people including the rape and enslavement of children.  Why would an all knowing god command such contradictions? 

It's almost like the bible was nothing but a bunch of stories from various anonymous people who never consulted with each other to establish a consistency.

The books of the Bible were written by men, as related from verbally told stories that occurred a great many years before the written accounts were created. You ever play 'Post Office' when you were younger? In that game, it's a game to see how much a story changes as it's repeated from one person to the next.

You assume that you know the 'big picture' as to why God would command one thing over here and a different thing over there. But the simple truth is that we do not know the big picture. 

Have a nice day, I'm done with you.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
1.1.89  Ozzwald  replied to  Snuffy @1.1.88    one month ago
You're the one who pushed up in 1.1.39 that the Jewish Bible advocates the killing of non-Jews.

And I have proven such.

So when called out that The Tanakh (the Jewish Bible) is made up of Old Testament books ONLY, you deflect to this?

You were the one trying to deflect to the new testament, not me.  Just because I included a new testament quote was only to show consistency.  I was not deflecting to it, just showing the the old testament still pertained.

You assume that you know the 'big picture' as to why God would command one thing over here and a different thing over there. But the simple truth is that we do not know the big picture.

I'll give you a hint.  If there was a god, there would be no contradictions in the "big picture" because god would be all knowing.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
1.1.90  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Ozzwald @1.1.89    one month ago

This shooting will turn out to be about two black groups that don’t like each other, not about Jews, Muslims or Christians.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
1.1.91  Ozzwald  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @1.1.90    one month ago

This shooting will turn out to be about two black groups that don’t like each other, not about Jews, Muslims or Christians.

Nice racist deflection.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
1.1.92  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Ozzwald @1.1.91    one month ago

Nice racist deflection.

Would do you find racist within that sentence?

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
1.1.93  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @1.1.92    one month ago

Usually whatever they can......................

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
1.1.94  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @1.1.92    one month ago

You called out a privileged demographic.  That makes people cry.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
1.1.95  CB  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @1.1.94    one month ago

If Blacks are so damn "privileged" - especially "two black groups" - perhaps MAGAs should make the effort to sign up for them!

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
1.1.96  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  CB @1.1.95    one month ago

Thanks for verifying that calling out certain demographics making people cry part.  

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
1.1.97  CB  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @1.1.96    one month ago

In MAGAs' shattered dreams, I guess. There is so much delusion going on out there. But, we must continue bravely onward to confront delusion, obstruction, disinformation, and misinformation (everywhere we find it).

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
1.1.98  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  CB @1.1.97    one month ago

And you're still at it.  And all about nothing.  jrSmiley_86_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
1.1.99  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  CB @1.1.95    one month ago
especially "two black groups" - perhaps MAGAs should make the effort to sign up for them!

Most aren't old enough to vote.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
1.1.100  CB  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @1.1.99    one month ago

Well, there yet remains hope (and time) for getting them onboard, I see.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
1.1.101  CB  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @1.1.98    one month ago

Jeremy, I could care less about whatever it is you are fighting to gain. So just keep charging ahead and butting around blindly at liberals. . . at the end of a day, someday, we might can compare facts and see where we end up. Before any of that can happen—this ready to engage in rhetorical "combat' that is on display needs to wrap it up and subside.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
1.1.102  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  CB @1.1.101    one month ago
I could care less about whatever it is you are fighting to gain.

And yet here you are.  

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
1.1.103  CB  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @1.1.102    one month ago

I am here, because it is a forum I happen to like and share with you. And, on that note: You are here, too

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.2  devangelical  replied to  Vic Eldred @1    one month ago

yeah, the whole country went to hell after europe dumped it's southern garbage on our doorstep 100+ years ago...

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
1.2.1  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  devangelical @1.2    one month ago

A least we got Columbus Day out of the deal.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
1.2.2  Krishna  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @1.2.1    one month ago
A least we got Columbus Day out of the deal.

And Pizza! jrSmiley_2_smiley_image.png

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.2.3  Tessylo  replied to  devangelical @1.2    one month ago

I see some of them here on NT on this 'article'

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Expert
2  Nerm_L    one month ago

Isn't this how terrorists celebrate?  Now it's time to blame the police.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
3  Drinker of the Wry    one month ago
there have been 266 shooting victims in Philadelphia so far this year. Of those victims, 30 of them are under 18 years old.

The good news is that our urban trauma centers have gotten so good at treating gunshot patients, 80% of them survive.  It's the most effective way to keep our homicide rate from exploding.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
3.1  Sean Treacy  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @3    one month ago

It is remarkable how good they are. Without their incredible skill, we’d have 1970s murder rates in slot of cities. 

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
3.1.1  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Sean Treacy @3.1    one month ago

Indeed, homicide rates aren't a good metric for measuring violence any more, medical care masks the number of shooting victims.  It might actually be higher than in the 70's.

 
 
 
Freefaller
Professor Quiet
4  Freefaller    one month ago

Unless it's a really unique shooting who really cares?  Multiple people are shot in the US every single day, it's like saying the sun rose this morning

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
4.1  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Freefaller @4    one month ago

Exactly, every day around 200 are shot here each day, not counting suicides.  About 41 die, our trauma care has gotten good enough to mask much of the gun violence.

 
 

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