Nazi Shit (intra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus)
Category: News & Politics
Via: bob-nelson • 2 months ago • 209 commentsBy: Fred Clark (slacktivist)
This election could be America's last. The fascist candidate has stated that his people will ensure that.
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
A new poll from PRRI finds that half of Americans oppose rounding up millions of their neighbors and putting them in concentration camps.
The same poll shows that nearly half — 47% — support concentration camps.
The reporting here is from Axios, where the emphasis is always on the political horse-race, leading to the surreal framing of whether straight-up Nazi shit as something mainly of interest due to how it may impact the electoral prospects of the two parties: "Americans split on idea of putting immigrants in militarized 'camps.'"
This is not ambiguous. The question here was not some vague pudding about "stronger/harsher immigration policies" or about "strengthening the border." That kind of phrasing allows wiggle room for those responding to or interpreting polls. This poll didn't allow such fuzzy evasion. These Americans were asked — explicitly — whether or not they supported "rounding up" people and "putting them into militarized camps."
"Round them up and put them in camps" is unadorned Nazi shit. It just is. There's no way of qualifying or caviling or weaseling out of that. "Round them up and put them in camps" is the essence of the thing itself.
And it's what 47% of the Americans responding to PRRI's question said they support.
PRRI offers a breakdown of this question by religious affiliation.* This is thoroughly disheartening. "Round them up and put them in camps" is massively popular among white Christians, with support from 58% of white mainline Protestants, support from 61% of white Catholics, and support from 75% of white evangelicals.
Hence the Latin in the title here: There is no salvation inside the church.
The overwhelming majority of white evangelicals preach a gospel that is wholly comfortable with "round them up and put them in camps." This gospel, apparently, is one that makes its adherents more likely to want to see others rounded up and put into camps.
It is, in other words, something very much like whatever gospel it was that the Lutheran pastor Martin Niemoller was preaching in 1933.
I grew up attending a private fundamentalist Christian school and was baptized at a white fundamentalist Baptist church. Both of those encouraged me to read The Hiding Place by Corrie ten Boom, a devout spiritual memoir by a Righteous Gentile whose family aided those in occupied Holland who were being round up and sent to the camps and who was, herself, eventually rounded up and sent to the camps. I read the book. I read the Spire Christian Comics adaptation of the book. And I watched the movie version — from Billy Graham Films — in church , in the sanctuary , where it was shown one Sunday night for our evening service.
That same fundamentalist Baptist church also sponsored a refugee family of "Boat People," providing them with an apartment for their first year living in America.
The highlight of the year at that church was always the Missions Conference, during which members made the pledges that shaped the church's budget for financially supporting missionaries around the world. The Missions Conference always kicked off with the "Parade of Nations," in which kids processed into the sanctuary proudly carrying the flags of all the countries around the world where missionaries supported by our offerings worked. There were state flags in the mix too, as some of the missionaries we supported were "home" missionaries — including some who worked with immigrant communities here in America. Immigration was, in this context, a glorious, God-blessed thing — it brought the "mission field" here to us .
Sure, all of that was also deeply problematic. My church's missiology was pervasively colonialist and shaped by cultural imperialism (although this was far less true for the missionaries themselves). And Corrie ten Boom wasn't revered as a hero because of her resistance to fascism so much as she was celebrated as a living martyr who could be an edifying example to us as we also faced "persecution" for our faith. After we watched The Hiding Place movie in church, there was much discussion of the disappointing refusal of the ten Boom family to proselytize the Jewish neighbors they hid and smuggled to safety. What good was it to save people's lives if you didn't also try to save their eternal souls?
But for all of that, the white fundamentalist Christians at that church in that time would still have recognized that "round them up and put them in camps" is the definition of villainy. One of the very few "secular" movies people at my church allowed themselves to watch was The Sound of Music . And they understood that Col. Von Trapp was a hero because he refused to participate in "round them up and put them in camps."
via GIPHY
I realize that "the white American Christianity of my childhood seems vastly different from the white American Christianity of today" is a fuzzy claim that may reflect little more than nostalgia or the naivete of my perceptions in childhood. But I really don't think that "round them up and put them in camps" would have had the support of 75% of the faithful fundies at Hydewood Park Baptist Church in the 1980s. Or, at the very least, they'd have had the decency to be ashamed to admit such support to a pollster.
But today, in 2024, if you walk into that white American church — or into any white American church — then the odds are that most of those present openly and proudly support "round them up and put them in camps." This is the culmination — the meaning — of their preaching, their prayer, their study, their worship, their discipleship, their devotion and piety and gospel and evangelism. All of that has led them, more than anyone else, to support straight-up Nazi shit including concentration camps .
There is no salvation in such places. And little worth saving.
* The spectrum of religious responses is almost exclusively Christian. It includes an array of five categories of Christians and only a single other category: "unaffiliated." That seems, in this context, to refer to Christians who are not "affiliated" with the prior categories of Christianity.
So where is everyone else in this poll? I'm not sure. The data here is from PRRI's 2024 American Values Survey, and many of the questions in that survey have a more inclusive breakdown of religious views, including things like "Latter Day Saint," "Jewish," or "Other non-Christian religion" as categories. I'm not sure if Axios only included some of that response in its reporting or if PRRI only collected data on this question from Christians.
The latter possibility seems unlikely, but would have prevented PRRI's pollsters from having a conversation in which they said, "So … your grandparents were killed in the Holocaust … how do you feel about rounding people up and putting them in camps?"
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I'm pessimistic.
Understandably. The irrational support of Trump is disturbing.
How about the rational support of Trump and the irrational support of Harris?
There is no such thing. Never before in American history has there been such a monumentally unfit candidate for President as Donald Trump, a 34 times convicted felon, accused by over two dozen women of sexual assault, accused rapist, ran half a dozen businesses into bankruptcy, had his personal charity shut down and fined for $2 million for illegal use of charity funds, paid hundreds of thousands to not just one but two porn stars to keep them quiet about his sexual affair with them during his campaign, has cheated on all three of his wives, was impeached by congress twice in just one term as President for abuse of power and incitement of an insurrection, lied to the American people about the deadly effects of a global pandemic that likely led to tens if not hundreds of thousands of American deaths, has disrespected gold star families, disrespected the military calling them "suckers and losers", praised Hitler, praised Putin, praised Kim Jong Un and other authoritarian foreign enemies and has now promised to end the war in Ukraine on day one which could only be done by total capitulation to Putin and withdrawing all backing for our European ally.
As I said, there IS NO SUCH THING as rational support of Trump. The only way to support him is to suspend all rational thought, reject all the facts, reject reason and logic and just go with a gut feeling that sympathizes with such a vile sexist racist disgusting piece of treasonous filth. That or wishing and hoping America turns into a white Christian fascist nation that stomps on the necks of anyone they feel superior to like those they consider "lowly" gays, liberals, progressives, brown skinned immigrants, minorities, Muslims, Jews and anyone who doesn't subscribe to the conservative white nationalist Christian worldview and the belief that that worldview will and should dominate the planet after their God returns and annihilates all non-believers and "sinners". In their minds, Trump is just giving them a head start to their hoped for Armageddon that they imagine themselves the beneficiaries of.
That kinda nails it.
There is no rational support for Trump. What a revealing question.
That is where you get it wrong. Just because everyone does not see things as you do it does not mean they are not being rational about their decision. Of course I am sure there are many of them that think it is irrational that anyone would vote for someone based on an irrational fear or hatred of their opponent that was president before and the US came out of it just fine. Personally I think being a one issue voter (Trump vs not Trump) is irrational. Some people can't get past that. Of course I don't yell it from the rooftop day after day (after day after day).
A revealing answer also.
Ignoring the part about Harris is also revealing.
This is like asking a group to decide between a gas station premade bland turkey sandwich and a warm rotting week-old raw pork sandwich slathered in mayonnaise that's been left in a warm gas station bathroom covered in flies for a month. If anyone in the group says "Hmmm, well, I'm not a fan of turkey so I guess I'll take the raw pork sandwich" most people would consider than monumentally irrational.
Harris is a normal, standard politician, albeit left leaning on policy, well-educated well-spoken with plenty of experience as a prosecutor, State district attorney, Senator and Vice President. I won't bother spelling out again the very long list of Trump's scandalous background and his many felonies and accusations of sexual assault and the rest but it's a very clear choice between the two. You may not like all of Harris's positions, but at least she's a standard politician, but I guess that's what makes her unappealing to Trump supporters who don't want a standard politician, they want someone to burn it all down and rebuild it in their white nationalist white supremacist confederate loving conservative Christian image which is the only reason they would choose the week-old rotting raw pork sandwich which they want to force feed the rest of America that they despise.
That is a whole lot of hyperbole
Nope. Simple truth. No one could have imagined that "good Americans" would ever storm Congress in an attempt to undo an election.
Nothing may be considered "just talk" any more.
Good point.
Total bullshit.
Yes, many the left has lost it's collective mind. Anyone that truly feels that way is beyond help. Maybe voting for Trump isn't such a bad idea after all. Too bad I already voted.
Were these people "good Americans?
FLASHBACK: Storming the US Capitol Was Fashionable in 2018 When Democrats and Communists Did It - Stillness in the Storm
Great argument
Simple, to the point statement of fact. No other argument needed.
Thought-free. OK, I guess...
It’s not a serious question. It’s most likely just trolling.
Probably considered heros and patriots
Accusations of trolling seems like the go to when avoiding a valid question.
It might be if Trump were only one issue, but he is not. He is several issues - especially when he represents a party that prides itself on its alleged morality.
There is more, of course, but this is just off the top of my head. That's SEVENTEEN issues, not just one.
Any one of these "issues" would be disqualifying for most voters if they were present in any other presidential candidate across our history. Many campaigns have ended for far less.
But, imagine if he were uniquely fantastic presidential material and only one or two of these were true. Then maybe you could hold your nose and vote for him.
BUT! They are all true, and he is a terrible president. He's incompetent. He doesn't understand anything about the Constitution or any other laws.
He has shown zero interest in building coalitions in Washington or amongst our allies. He takes credit for an economy he had nothing to do with. He inherited a strong economy from Obama, which kept improving at the same pace it had been for years - until Covid.
Covid caused disruptions in supply chains and labor forces all over the world, and recovering from that chaos led to inflation all over the world. Trump blamed Biden for this, but if anything, the recovery in America has been better than our peers in Europe. He has not actually been the cause of any national prosperity, nor is there a rational reason to think he would be going forward. He does not have any positives that could even hope to outweigh all of his negatives.
I didn't avoid anything. I wrote a long answer. That takes time.
And through all that it comes down to Trump vs not Trump. Trump being the one issue.
That is too bad, You could have just summed it up as "Orange man bad".
Seems that millions don't agree with your assessment. There must be something wrong with them. S/
That's a given.
That glosses over and dismisses all the details. I have long concluded that confirmation bias is a critical element in the though process of Trump supporters and defenders.
The argumentum ad populum is a well-known fallacy. Using it as the basis of your comment guarantees being on the wrong side of truth.
All those things, and about half the nation loves him and wants him to be their leader. I'm not concerned about him. I'm concerned about America.
And she has the fabulous benefit of having gone to a Canadian high school instead of an American one. This is from her graduation yearbook:
She appears to have excelled in cryptic code.
The absolute worst thing about Harris is far better than the best thing about trump... PERIOD.
Bravo!
Good post. Your list is common knowledge... but MAGAs don't care about any of it. That's why I'm pessimistic.
Fascists use democracy to take power... and then don't ever give it up. "One man, one vote, one time!" Trump has made it perfectly clear that that is his intention.
Half of all Americans want Trump's theocratic / plutocratic fascism. They only need to win once.
As I have observed on multiple occasions, MAGA supporters are not interested in the facts. They dismiss them eagerly as “fake.” see: issue #16. I am not surprised to see it happening here again. And if they can’t dismiss the facts, they are offended by them - for example, when people who say or do racist things are called racist. When Trump was successfully fact checked, MAGA supporters aren’t bothered that he lied. They are bothered that he was fact-checked at all. That is moral bankruptcy.
Exactly
How has Trump made this perfectly clear?
Yup
I have long said the same thing about trump haters
I talked to 10 people, no one has ever heard of it.
Since you just tacitly admitted that you are unaware of argumentum ad populum you have the opportunity to Google that name and read up on this commonly used fallacy.
So you actually believe that those of us who are adamently against Trump being elected PotUS have formed this position based on:
Then make your argument. Explain why (considering the details, not ignoring the Trump negatives) someone should vote for Trump rather than Harris.
Partially
The came to the conclusion trump would make a better president based on logic and possibly not letting I hate trump cloud their objectivity.
Never said I didn't.
You offered no argument, no details; just an abstract claim that they made an objective, logical choice.
In short, your comments was bullshit.
Then you knowingly used a fallacious argument form.
For them it was. No one needs to have their logic approved by you or anyone else.
I stated a fact
@1.1.43 you offered a platitude — a comment that offered no content. Merely the obvious opinion that you think Trump voters choose to support him for objective, logical reasons. Yet you offer no such reasons. Just a general claim — no thoughtful content whatsoever.
I actually saw him laugh the other day - the first time ever - when he was talking about Arnold Palmer's penis. I forget exactly what he said at that point but it was the first time I'd seen him actually laughing.
Nah, but we can analyze it and call it out for logical inconsistencies.
In fact, TiG... I doubt the usage was intentional. Or even conscient.
True. It's important to test our own ideas against opposition. Pointing out the other person's errors may be helpful if there's an "undecided" lurker.
But let's not kid ourselves. Never in the history of the Internet has one of the Usual Suspects recognized a mistake.
Of course. As people can do with anyone, even trump haters
LOL. You're not kidding.
... my mantra and MO if/when trump crosses the constitution. the lowest hanging maga tainted fruit ...
even if that closet nazi gets elected, at his current rate of mental decline, he'll have a drool cup strapped to his chin by this time next year ...
His people will do his will. If he wins, the country will, l believe, be transformed into a fascist dictatorship.
oops, the christo-fascists forgot to disarm their opposition first ...
It won't stop with immigrants. As soon as they get that underway it will be gays and then liberals. After that they will start eating their own with purity tests.
Just like what happened when he was President for 4 years!
This kind of action is a second term move.
Heard it all before...........................
He says he'll put immigrants in camps. Anyone who imagines he'll stop there is a fool.
"he"?
People who cross the border illegally are felons.
Are you in favor of concentration camps for unconvicted persons?
Crossing the border results in a misdemeanor the first time,
a felony the second time.
Is it actually a felony-- or is it a misdemeanor?
I must have crossed the border HUNDREDS of times, and I wasn't arrested.
Like Melania Trump?
Well, let's not forget that it wouldn't be the first time America did that.
No.
Those "Japanese internment camps" were one of America‘s most shameful episodes. So of course, MAGA wants more of it.
Yawn - that tired meme.....
Prior to June 01, 2009 only photo ID was required to move into or out of Canada from the US border.
Afterwords with a passport you wouldn't be considered "illegal'.
Remember when everyone thought Donald Trump was the problem? It has been clear for some time now that it’s not him, it’s deplorable American citizens that are the problem. Trump is just their willing tool.
Yep.
“It has been clear for some time now that it’s not him.”
Agreed.
All he has done is give a face and a voice to the darkest, most insidious side of our society. He will eventually fade away, but what he represents will always be with us. Hopefully the fear and ignorance and hatred will fade away as well.
History is written by the winner. Trump may write his own history, in which case he'll be recorded as the greatest President.
Their useful idiot. If he wavers they'll cast him aside as soon as they know they have control.
Let's not let Trump off the hook. He knows exactly what he's doing.
He's like the bumbling hit man a bitter sexist asshole hires to kill his wife who is refusing to be obedient.
It's clear they don't want democracy. And I'm supposed to respect veterans that don't want a democracy? Fuck that
I blame it all on Rupert Murdoch and Rush Limbaugh for letting right wingers think it was OK to lie and be openly fascistic racists.
I can remember when all the tight ass rwnj's were organizing to try and keep FOX off the air because of the simpsons.
Hillary was right. That's why they hate her.
I am a big picture guy. Trump the political leader, Trump the politician, MAGA, "Christian" support for Trump, all of it, stems from one thing. The fear by conservative whites that they are losing "their" country to racial minorities and that Trump is their last chance.
But last chance at what? History only goes in one direction. Whites WILL become a minority group, albeit the largest minority group. Nothing but a holocaust can prevent that, mainly due to interracial mixing ( a good thing by the way).
Whites being a minority is not a subject if only wealthy white men have any power.
The fascists openly call for an end for democracy.
Most white MAGA's dont have any power.
True. Trump's America will be a plutocracy.
They used to have all of the power and now that power has been reduced drastically over the last forty years which is why they are so angry and bitter and choosing to elect such a monumentally unfit unhinged sack of shit like Trump.
[✘]
removed for context
It can't be good MAGA's defense is not technically being Nazis...
This is a perfect essay that captures the hysteria and fear mongering that has pervaded a segment of the left for the last 80 years. Every election is the most important ever. If Dewey, or Reagan, or Bush or Romney or Trump wins democracy is over and the fascists have taken control. Some here argued democracy ended in 2014, so I'm not sure how it can be destroyed again.
The odd thing is they seem to enjoy pretending to be oppressed. They dress up in costumes. They claim an EXTENSION of voting windows is "Jim Crow 2.0" They hyperventilate and pretend cops are shooting unarmed black people down by the thousands, when cows kills more Americans per year than police shoot unarmed blacks. There are always Christian nationalists about to take over the country.
There's some psychological need at play here that necessitates believing anyone not in the left wing cult is going to oppress them worse than anyone ever has oppressed anyone in history if they stop screaming Nazi for a second. It doesn't matter that Trump was President for four years and was completely normal. When he lost legislative battles he lost them. When the Court ruled against him, he followed the rulings. His enemies weren't rounded up. Minorities and gays (his imagined victims) flourished. It just is all so silly to anyone old enough to remember 2016-2020.
Just admit it, if Trump with all his faults, his felonies, his long list of deplorable behavior were the Democrat candidate, every single Republican, along with many Democrats, would be screaming in outrage at what an unfit and unhinged lying sack of shit he is.
Perhaps you were asleep for his four-year term, but nothing was normal about Trumps term as President. Thankfully, he had enough guard rails during his term to keep him from doing everything he wanted, but most of those guard rails are now gone. He has no one left to stop him from doing all the things he wanted to do during his term as President, using the military to go after his political opponents, turning the military and Justice department against citizens who protest against him just like his pal Putin does. He was impeached twice in that one term unlike any President in American history, he lied about a deadly pandemic and left us with historically high unemployment and a supply chain in shambles, he gave billions in tax cuts to himself and his billionaire buddies. To claim his four years were "completely normal" is fucking insane.
You and I know they would but I doubt you will get them to admit it. Because then it would expose them for them for who they really are
That will never happen. Does not matter, it is obvious They are bent out of shape over Harris working at McDonald's in college.
The same people who said, with a straight face, Biden was sharp as a tack and outworking his younger staff members would attack Trump, the Democrat? That's funny.
I have no problem saying Trump is a liar and unfit for office. Kamala lies and can't answer the simple questions a candidate for student council should be able to handle and the vast majority of Democrats overflow with the silliest of excuses to avoid criticizing her.
t. Thankfully, he had enough guard rails during his term to keep him from doing everything he wanted
Right. The Constitution is gone now? Did Trump pack the Court with justices? Nope. Did Republicans repeal the filibuster when they controlled the Senate? Nope. All these guardrails the Democrats want to destroy are still in place, which shows just how fundamentally silly the Trump is a Nazi crowd is. They are intent on giving the Presidency even more powers after a Trump Presidency and still want the President to have more unchecked power? Guess Trump couldn't be that bad then.
But sure, pay no attention to when he was actually President, this time he's going to all the things Democrats shrilly promised he would do the first term and never did. He just forgot to be a Nazi for four years.
turning the military and Justice department against citizens who protest against him
Is this irony? Tell me it's irony. Brother, if that scares you, don't even look at Democrats have done the last four years.
y, he lied about a deadly pandemic and left us with historically high unemployment
You expect to be taken seriously when you blame Trump for the high unemployment caused by Covid?
he gave billions in tax cuts to himself and his billionaire buddies
The gave tax cuts to all taxpayers and made the tax code more progressive. The horror!
[✘]
They are grasping at straws for reasons to oppose Harris because they are desperate and have nothing else. They have to do anything to distract and confuse voters while they give Donald a pass on all of his vile behavior, felonies, sexual assaults, impeachments, attempted insurrection and the list goes on and on.
They claim that because we survived the first four years of Trump that means he's an acceptable candidate while at the same time screaming that America will collapse if Harris is elected even though we literally just had four years of her as Vice President with an administration that helped control inflation back down to 2.4%, has historically high stock market numbers with historically low unemployment numbers and an economy that by any measure is thriving along with democracy and the rule of law.
Sadly, I think some have listened to rightwing media so much it's turned their brains to mush and they simply don't want to believe facts and prefer imagining a national apocalypse because their old society of white nationalist and white supremacist confederate loving conservative Christian worldview has been diminished and threatened and they want to "take their country back" because they don't see liberals and progressives, minorities, immigrants, Muslims or anyone who doesn't share their ideological stance as "real Americans".
Inflation was 1.5% when they took over. Heckuva job.
I would be pretty embarrassed if I got inflation to 9 percent in less than two years in office but can't get it below 2 percent almost two years later.
I don't believe Democrats would ever have selected dirty Donald as their candidate with his long list of flaws and unacceptable behavior. Republicans, on the other hand, demand integrity from their opponents while giving the most unfit candidate in American history a pass because he appeals to their worst instincts.
Wonderful! So why the constant defense for someone you admit is unfit for office?
Oh, I see, you've bought in to the moronic bullshit rightwing talking points. Harris kicked Trumps ass in their debate and yet rightwing media framed it as either a tie or a win for Trump and now push some idiotic narrative about how Harris can't handle questions.
Did Biden pack the court with justices? Did Democrats repeal the filibuster? Nope. So, what's your point? Trump did push in a justice within weeks of an election while previously, along with every Republican, claimed that should never be done within an election year as Obama had nominated Garland and was blocked by Republicans for almost a year. Hypocrisy? Of course, but I really don't expect any integrity from Trump or his supporters. Both sides have talked about making changes while they're in power to screw things in their favor like insane gerrymandering. So far, the worst offenders who actually act on it seem to all be Republicans.
Not irony at all, just the facts. This administration DID NOT use the justice department or the military as Trump has said he wants to. Just because the justice department prosecuted criminals who attacked capital police officers and held them to account does not in any way prove the Democrat administration was behind the scenes pulling their strings. That's just nonsensical bullshit coming from unhinged rightwing media nutjobs.
The vast majority of the cuts and the cuts that are permanent were all for the extremely rich and their corporations. The middle class got a carrot on a stick that is about to be taken away as those cuts are set to sunset soon and saved middle income families a few hundred dollars a year at most.
believe Democrats would ever have selected dirty Donald as their candi
Like ordinary Democrats have a say? The democrats haven't had an open primary without massive party interference since 2008. Democrats just fall in line and parrot talking points for whoever they are told to. If the party told you Trump was the nominee, Democrats would claim he's be the greatest thing since sliced bread.
The gaslighting about Biden's health we had to wade through the last four years is enough for any reasonable person to understand democrats will say whatever their party wants.
ful! So why the constant defense for someone you admit is unfit for office?
Because I'm not a Democrat and thus don't believe stopping Trump justifies telling ridiculous lies.
some idiotic narrative about how Harris can't handle questions.
That's what I'm talking about . Literally the day after her CNN debacle the Kamala hive comes out and pretends its an "iditioc narrative" to claim she can't handle questions. Just goes to show how preposterous it is to think Democrats would criticize Trump if he were their nominee.
Just because the justice department prosecuted criminals who attacked capital police officers
Right. That's who they are prosecuting. Everyone who they prosecuted attacked cop. Sure. Meanwhile, of course, the Biden DOJ intervened to lessen the punishment of BLM terrorists who threw Molotov cocktails at police cars, made no effort to track down BLM terrorists who tried to burn down the federal courthouse in Portland, set up task forces to go after people for being pro-life, or who don't like their daughters forced to shower with boys and of course helped the NY DA prosecute Trump for the exact same crime they gave Hillary Clinton a pass for.
vast majority of the cuts and the cuts that are permanent were all for the extremely rich \
Lol. nice pivot now we've established the Trump tax cuts put a greater share of the tax burden on the rich. yes, people who pay more in taxes benefit more from tax cuts. that's how math works.
ddle class got a carrot on a stick that is about to be taken away as those cuts are set to sunset soon an
Sad that Democrats won't extend them, isn't it?
Anyone who thinks that what Harris says is comparable to the verbal diarrhea that comes out of Trumps mouth all day every day is beyond help.
C'mon, John...
Sean has been impermeable for a decade.
Insanity is repeating the same actions while expecting a different result. What you're asking of Sean is kinda insane.
I missed the substance free insults from you, bob. Glad to have you back.
There are others that have easily filled the void.
Nice deflection. Trump is simply not relevant to Harris's inability to answer questions, at all.
That Harris cannot handle basic questions was on full display on CNN last night. Democrats complete inability to state the obvious, that her appearance was a certified disaster, demonstrates my point nicely. Point out her issues and it's "But Trump, But Trump".
T
Hi, Sean.
If Biden were running and said the things about Arnold Palmer that trump did or pulled a stunt like at McDonald's - they would have put a net over him and hauled him off to the looney bin.
No its not.
At least you'll say that much..
That's because of Covid...
Every election is the most important ever.
Yeah, there is a point there … until Trump came along and exploited it exponentially. I remember when Romney said he had a binder full of women to consider for leadership positions, and the left went nuts. Clearly the left had no idea what was on the horizon. Comparing the two timelines is an exercise in blind partisanship.
There is garden variety delusion, and then there is some of your sentences.
" garden variety delusion"?
Isn't that what they use to make Word Salad ?
Doesn't say much for the Democrats that enforced Executive Order 9066, signed by President Franklin D. Roosevelt. Ironically that come from the same party that gave us Jim Crowe and may other racist policies. But let's ignore fact and continue to shriek about "what if" imaginary situations.
The other group forced into camps were American Indians the government calls them reservations. The US has a history and experience “rounding them up and putting them in camps.” So it sure isn’t a far fetched idea. To be sure that you understand that republicans were right there with the dems when it came to racism check out the parties in control during the manifest destiny period of the US.
I might add Hitler and the Nazi’s studied US treatment and laws made to control Indians as a blueprint for them.
Indeed, they did and there are a couple of good books written on it, so you see that Nazi reach does extend to our country in not so pleasant ways.
It's much more accurate to use the terms liberal and conservative rather than democrats and republicans when speaking of the past. It seems that their ideologies have morphed somewhat over the decades.
They Never Will. The intent to troll with a kernel of truth is too tempting.
That "same party" is no longer the same party it used to be decades ago!
is that supposed to change the fact in my statement? And I still don't see this "change" you all keep blathering on about.
If you look at congress you’ll see the change it’s quite evident to those that see reality.
Still doesn't change my statement.
So FDR was a conservative now?
Just insane.
No, I didn’t expect it to, your statement is wrong and I assumed you would stick with it, so I’m not surprised.
My statement is factually and historically correct. Just because YOU don't like and try to spin that fact doesn't change any of that.
It may have been factually and historically correct from 1850 to 1950 as everyone knows the parties changed positions starting with FDR, a little more with Truman and full out with LBJ.
As I pointed out in a prior comment when it came to Native Americans the Republican Party didn’t do us any favors.
My liking it or not has nothing to do with it, it is historical fact.
So what are you making excuses for?
Ummm.... K?
You do understand that MAGAs base their opinions on what they like, don't you? That facts are of no importance to them? Explaining facts to a MAGA is a total waste of time.
Mirror, Mirror on the Wall -
I haven’t made any excuses I’ve simply stated the facts which seem to be kryptonite to conservatives.
That seems to be the case again in this series of comments.
Mostly false. The white conservative Christian men that basically ran the southern slavery industry were ideologically then murderously opposed to the white progressive Christian men in the Republican party which freed the slaves and ultimately won the Civil War.
Post war and post reconstruction, disgruntled CSA veterans, almost exclusively conservative white Christian members of the Democrat Party invented the KKK and Jim Crow laws.
The parties have completely switched ideologies since the Civil War and their crimes were based on ideology not the names of their organizations.
Wow, got anything from THIS millennium?
Get used to it. Have you any idea how many times "history" has been thrown in my face? But it's okay, because it usually earns points for the pitchers.
[✘]
Being proud of their historical ignorance and pretending it doesn't matter explains quite a bit about progressivism.
Speaking historical ignorance there is nothing like watching the conservatives ignore the fact that the parties started changing their ideology in the late 1940s. Or to ignore the fact that minorities in congress are heavy on the dem side. Yet their inability to explain this results in them going back to the 1930/40s.
It tells you how SOS many conservatives are.
All the Usual Suspects know this. They also know that pretending to not know will elicit a reaction.
Eliciting reactions is some people's life‘s work.
All of a sudden a government small enough to drown in a bathtub doesn't look like such a bad thing.
. . . in a bathtub?
WTF???
Does metaphor ring a bell?
Have you not heard that expression before? I think Northquest coined the phrase. the concept is simple, a government large enough to provide all your needs is also large enough to control your life. a small government can't go all NAZI and lock people up
"The government" doesn't decide anything. People in office decide things. Voters decide things.
47% of Americans would decide to eliminate democracy in America. The enemy isn't "the government". The enemy is those who would destroy our democracy.
“…a small government can't go all NAZI and lock people up.”
But a leader with no compunction to heed the established rules of government, and empowered by his sycophantic followers, most certainly may try to make good on his oft stated promises.
The concept is simple indeed…and simply shocking in its possible implementation.
I'm simply amazed evetime I read a complete bullshit comment like this, Do you have so little faith in the military? Not 1 person I served with would support such a thing.
Open question to the posters here, any of you who served left or right, would you stand idly by and let a trump administration lock up their political opponents and put them in camps?
I truly hope you are correct. Thank you for your service.
Democracy only works if the people protect it.
Wouldn't put it past Trump to divide the military just as he has divided the general public.
He obviously already has his own private army that will do anything he says (1/6).
Nope.
Ah-- good old Northquest-- I should've known.
BTW, how is the old boy doing?
I was in the Marines, 1988-1991. I would say this to you... Why elect him and have to put the question to the test?
damn good question
How would I know or why would I care?
I won't be voting for him or that idiot Harris, Surely you aren't voting for Harris based on her competency?
Hell, I will vote for her because she isn't retarded like trump is.
Good then you won't be able to complain about Trump or Harris going forward, knowing you wasted your vote on Putin's girl Jill Stein who is actively trying to get Trump elected, also for Putin.
And there it is. You want Harris to win because she is black. You don’t give a rat’s ass about her qualifications and abilities (none). It’s all about the color of her skin and her gender.
The right has been correct all along. She was a DEai hire by Biden and if she wins it will only be because of the same DEI.
I never said that, and the meme is a joke. The only reason you want trump to win is because he's white.
See how easy that is?
Joe Biden used concentration camps to house Afghans following his botched withdrawal and fall of Kabul. Since Biden simply cannot be a NAZI, these concentration camps must have been for the purpose of reeducation. Shades of the liturgy in Mao's little red book.
Liberals have sought their own refuge in a liturgy of godlessness. And that godlessness has trapped them in an intellectual concentration camp of their own making and guarded by the easily outraged. Once inside the liberal concentration camp, liberals cannot be allowed freedom of thought, independent opinion, or liberty of dissent. Crossing the barrier of liberal godlessness requires drastic reeducation. The outraged will take away privacy, means of expression, freedom of movement, and means of livelihood. The outraged require utter annihilation to satisfy liberal justice. The liberal god of godlessness is a harsh, unforgiving god of liberal wrath.
Even the seeded screed expresses outrage over something defended by a holy paywall. Phony is as phony does. And the author of the screed is a phony; just drumming up business for the church of godlessness.
You need to get out more.
Hey, Thomas! Did you get the memo that said no more thinking for ourselves? I didn't. Did you guys drop me from the mailing list?
Heheheh . . .
WTF are you talking about? Seems there a bit of confusion here.
One of my cloest friend is a devout Catholic!
(And among other things that indicates that she can hardly be described as 'godless")
WTF are you talking about? You brought Catholics into the discussion. Attempting to establish a red herring? Or maybe just trying to jump the shark?
No one knows
Yet it seems that you may be fishing for compliments!
???
Actually The Shadow knows:
Old timey radio!( I used to listen to this on the radio (that was before we had our first TV)
That's a rather cryptic sentence-- would you be so kind as to re-state that in plain English?
“…of liberal wrath.”
And just what does that portend? He asked knowing another long ‘screed’ is sure to come, sure to confuse, but sure to get voted up. On second thought…nevermind…
Have to call bullshit on your claim that Biden established concentration camps before or after the U.S. (Trump negotiated) pullout of Afghanistan.
Yes, the Biden administration established retention facilities (concentration camps) at eight military facilities for processing and orientation (reeducation).
The Afghans caused extensive damage at some of the facilities, possibly an attempt to force release. Naturally the military exploited the situation to beg for more taxpayer money.
.
NO SHIT??? And here I thought that only China did that.
No, not even close in reality.
After spending weeks or months in Qatar being vetted, the Afghan refugees were relocated to different US military bases often staying in excess military barracks, not concentration camps.
After further processing and vaccinations they were resettled under the parole program.
Future arrivals will be required to finish the Special Immigration Visa process first, which normally takes 1 to 2 years and upon arrival, skip the military installations and go straight to a sponsor for resettlement.
There are no concentration camps or re-education camps.
Kosovo and the UAE also took in Afghans who wish to be processed to come to America.
... and another fake news dies its well-merited death.
Excellent post.
Oh, well then. I guess there's nothing more than Guantanamo Bay and the Internment Camps for the innocent Japanese American citizens.
One of those happened quite a while ago, and is widely considered a national shame.
The other is a step on the Republican path to fascism. We can hope that fifty years from now, that second event will also be seen as a national shame... but history is written by the winner.
While only 30 detainees remain at Guantanamo, the US will probably never cede the properties to the Cuban Government. They have invested billions into the base, most recently a liquified natural gas power plant.
Rumor has it that under Castro only the first check was cashed out of habit. Every check since then
was reportedly handed to Castro who kept them all, undeposited, in a desk drawer in his office.
Our friend Christopher Columbus landed there on his second voyage looking for fresh water but only stayed one night.
The Bush administration had no plan for managing prisoners who weren't in uniform - who weren't obviously "prisoners of war". So goatherds were collected into the same holding pens as jihadis. Obviously the jihadis did all they could to recruit the goatherds. After a few months, it was impossible to know who was an enemy and who was an innocent bystander.
Instead of doing the hard work of figuring out who was who, the Bushies packed everyone off to Guantanamo. They claimed that Constitutional protection didn't apply because it was Cuba.
The mess remains.
Who could have imagined that goatherds might get swept up along with jihadis?
Washington, Gates and Cornwallis ?
Benedict Arnold
Thank you for an excellent example of a true "word salad".
you ask some people for the time, and they tell you how to build a clock ... /s
No [doubt][✘]
Well, if anyone is really unhappy about living in a country where the PotUS isn't one you can bear to stand, I invite you to move to China. It's pretty calm for citizens here, no gun violence and no porch thefts, you can live like a king on an American pension, there's no political fighting back and forth or inter-family political arguments when families get together or anytime actually, and the trains run on time, the super-fast ones, and there are more of those than anywhere else in the world, hospitals with the most up-to-date equipment and no waiting time for an MIR. You can get a job teaching English like I did and the people here have incredible respect for teachers, just ask Tim Walz.
I'd suggest just about any EU country (except Hungary, for the moment) as a waypoint.
I think America will be a fascist plutocracy within a few election cycles. Europe will hang on for a while. Then the choice will be binary: dictatorship with no restraints or dictatorship with intent to improve people's lives.
The kind of democracy the West has attempted for two millennia will disappear. Humankind‘s best hope is Confucian "serve-the-people" autocracy.
Sounds about right:
Trump is a Nazi. The horror!
followed by:
Move to China.
Autocracy is humanity's best hope.
Pure comedy.
Love ya, Sean...
Glad you are back Bob.
It's entertaining. Good luck with Autocrats for Harris
Don't ever change, Sean. You're one of the few people I know who is utterly predictable.
The problem is, Bob, that sometimes Sean's comments are not the only ones on this site that imply an air of authority about things with which there has been no personal experience.
That's a very charitable way of putting it!
Well, on the other hand I also vote up most of Sean's comments about the Israel-Hamas conflict.
True. But I've spent a lot of time thinking about thinking. And about conversation. And about people.
The Usual Suspects have been important in my evolution.
Confirmation bias is a constant threat. Intellectual honesty requires testing against opposition, but I (and probably most people) don't spend time with people who disagree with me. So... Usual Suspects! We know they'll defend MAGA by whatever means. We can test.
Sean never steps out of character. I long ago gave up trying to guess why a particular person behaves as they do. I found myself reacting to an imagined motivation rather than to the person's actual behavior. That was foolish, so I stopped. Now... I can listen to Sean and the others, hear and analyze their arguments... and never be bothered be imagined motives. It's much less stressful.
I can imagine several very different explanations for the Usual Suspects' behavior. Ultimately, it doesn't matter which is true. They're good sounding boards. They're useful to me.
The Usual Suspects reassure me. It would be very troubling if one day Sean surprised me.
Judging from the time that you're awake am I right to assume that you're in France now?
“if you elect Trump, antisemitic mobs will be rampaging through the streets, the Justice department won’t do anything, and the President will praise the rioters’ moral courage.” The problem with this argument is it describes the situation right now
It is almost guaranteed that if Trump wins, the left will continue with their ways and burn, loot and murder anyone that gets in their way. They showed how well they can do that during the Summer of Love 2020.
They are going to have their own J6 but all over the country.