How Canada became poorer than Alabama
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
In December, Tommy Battle’s dream came true. The five-term Mayor of Huntsville is Alabama to the bone, born in Birmingham and a graduate of the state university in Tuscaloosa, but for the past 18 years he’s tried to distance his city from the state’s unsavoury stereotypes. Huntsville, in the north, is the home of the Saturn rocket program that took on the Soviet Union’s Sputnik. It houses the second-largest biotech research hub in the United States. And it has attracted high-end manufacturing investments such as Blue Origin’s rocket engine plant. But Alabama tropes are hard to shake: The state is backward and full of bible thumpers and bigots – allegedly. When local companies try to hire from afar, Mayor Battle says recruits often hear the same responses when telling their spouses: “‘Huntsville?’ With one question mark. Then they say, ‘Alabama???’ With three question marks.” Translation: You’ve got to be kidding me. But in December, Huntsville had the last laugh. Eli Lilly and Co. was looking to build a US$6-billion manufacturing plant that would create 3,000 construction jobs and employ 450 engineers, scientists, lab technicians and operations staff. After narrowing down the field of 300 bidders, the pharmaceutical giant named Huntsville a winner, one of four new facilities in the U.S. It’s the state’s largest-ever private industrial investment, and it personifies the tagline the Mayor has preached: “Huntsville: a smart place.” For eons, Canadians have viewed Alabama as a small state that, save for a few pockets, is dirt poor. All anybody seems to know about Alabama is that Montgomery and Birmingham were the centre of the civil rights movement. In 1963, when Martin Luther King Jr. wrote his “Letter from a Birmingham Jail,” he called Birmingham “probably the most thoroughly segregated city in the United States.” So, it was a shock when Canadian economist Trevor Tombe and the International Monetary Fund ran the numbers in 2023 and 2024 and concluded that Canada had, in fact, become poorer than Alabama.
GDP per capita–U.S. states and Canadian provinces in 2024
In U.S. dollars, adjusted for purchasing power
New York $116,883 Massachusetts
$109,095 Washington $107,564
Delaware $105,495
California $102,662
North Dakota $100,504
Connecticut $97,096
Alaska $96,695
Nebraska $94,364
Colorado $93,602
Illinois $90,330
New Jersey $89,045 T
exas $88,517
Wyoming $87,639
Minnesota $87,636
Maryland $87,180
Virginia $86,451
Utah $85,475
New Hampshire $84,694
Alberta $84,688
South Dakota $83,052
Nevada $82,330 Iowa
$81,998 Hawaii $81,339
Saskatchewan $79,321
Georgia $78,841
Ohio $77,684
Tennessee $77,645
Kansas $77,601
Oregon $77,299
Pennsylvania $77,062
North Carolina $76,427
Wisconsin $76,044
Arizona $75,186
Indiana $75,028
Florida $73,879
Rhode Island $72,265
Missouri $71,846
Louisiana $71,594
Vermont $71,359
Maine $70,586
Michigan $69,274
New Mexico $69,046
Montana $68,975
Newfoundland and Labrador $67,720
British Columbia $66,370
South Carolina $65,173
Ontario $65,038
Idaho $64,457
Oklahoma $64,388
Kentucky $64,375
Alabama $63,080
Arkansas $60,984
West Virginia $60,156
Quebec $60,144
Manitoba $56,509
Mississippi $53,751
Prince Edward Island $53,151
Nova Scotia $52,933
New Brunswick $49,366
THE GLOBE AND MAIL ,Source: StatsCan; U.S.; BEA; Trevor Tombe To measure this, they calculated gross domestic product (GDP) per capita.
In simple terms, it’s the size of the Canadian economy in a given year divided by the population. The same was done for Alabama. After adjusting for foreign exchange and some cost differences in both countries,the average for Canada’s 10 provinces was estimatedat at US$55,000 in 2022, the same as Alabama. Shortly after, the IMF found Canada had actually fallen behind the southern state. (Canada has since edged ever-so-slightly higher than Alabama; the numbers are volatile from year to year.) The timing was terrible for the Canadian psyche. Home prices were on an astronomical trajectory, inflation made everyday items such asgroceries far more expensive and there was deep resentment toward Ottawa. Canadians could probably stomach having their living standards slip relative to the broader U.S., the epicentre of the world’s tech revolution. But Alabama? For an ego check, The Globe and Mail travelled to the Deep South to understand how this happened. Immediately, it was obvious Alabama is misunderstood.
In Huntsville, there are as many Subaru Outbacks as there are pickup trucks, and the geography in Alabama’s two largest metropolitan areas – Birmingham and Huntsville – looks nothing like the historical imagery. “Most people think of Alabama as flat pasture land with cotton fields,” says Daniel Hughes, a real estate executive who took his Montgomery-based company, BSR Real Estate Investment Trust, public on the Toronto Stock Exchange. Huntsville and Birmingham, though, are nestled in the foothills of the Appalachian Mountains. Looking out from Mayor Battle’s seventh-floor office in city hall, the landscape could easily be Vermont. Alabama is also home to five million people – the same population as Alberta – and its economy is booming. The state’s unemployment rate is now just 2.7 per cent, versus 6.5 per cent in Canada, and its major employers include Airbus SE and giant defence contractor Northrop Grumman Corp. The state has also morphed into an auto manufacturing powerhouse with plants from Mercedes-Benz AG, Toyota Motor Corp., Hyundai Motor Co. and more. In 2024, Alabama made nearly as many vehicles as Ontario.
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Home prices were on an astronomical trajectory, inflation made everyday items such as groceries far more expensive and there was deep resentment toward Ottawa. Canadians could probably stomach having their living standards slip relative to the broader U.S., the epicentre of the world’s tech revolution. But Alabama ?
I don't think people recognize how much ground Canada and Europe have lost the last 20 years.
But hey, the Canadian government kills more of its citizens in a couple months than have died in American history from mass shootings, so they've got that going for them.
i will give you one, Sean. Canada DOESN'T have something that America does - a place that's warm in winter. America has the southern states and Hawaii, but Canada is cold all winter, even Vancouver. I recall that long ago Canada was pondering the possibility of taking over (buying?) the Turks and Caicos islands in the Caribbean. I wish that they had - I wouldn't have spent all the money I did in Florida over the years.
Florida has far more to offer than the Turks and Caicos Islands. Jackie Mason went to both. Do you remember what he said about Turks & Caicos? Evidently people suffer when they go there and when they get home, they brag about going there.
I didn't know what Jackie Mason or anyone said about the Turks and Caicos, but over many years I was very happy spending time in Florida. It's just that more recently I'm glad I sold the home my brother and I shared there.
You have led a charmed life, Buzz.
I think we can agree on Florida. It is a great place.
Yes, my friend, it WAS a great place, because there never was any concern or even a thought about politics back then.
Ah, to have been there back when it was only twentieth in state population instead of fourth!
Back when the best racehorses in America ran at Hialeah during the winter months!
Back when Hemingway was pulling in Marlin or trying to drink the town dry when he lived at Key West!
Back when Miami's Collins Avenue was a destination for night life!
I love it even now.
Truthfully I (and I suspect most Canadians) don't think of Alabama at all
But we're doing fine, thanks for asking.
LOL. The posting of the article By Sean is a DESPERATION ATTEMPT trying to establish that Americans are better off than Canadians. It's laughable.
And by the way, Sean, where is the proof of a ridiculous statement like "But hey, the Canadian government kills more of its citizens in a couple months than have died in American history from mass shootings, so they've got that going for them." ?
Well, no. It's because Canadians are very upset as the truth punctures one of their myths. The numbers are the numbers.
S ean, where is the proof of a ridiculous statement like "But hey, the Canadian government kills more of its citizens in a couple months than have died in American history from mass shootings, so they've got that going for them.
1 in 20 Canadians die at the hands of their government. Over a thousand a month.
1,728 Americans have died in mass shootings, at least since 1966. Probably very few more before that
https://rockinst.org/gun-violence/mass-shooting-factsheet/?utm_source=chatgpt.com
Hahahhahhahahahhah
Well, I asked my editorial assistant ChatGPT to verify the veracity of that statement. Here is what it had to say:
Sean simply twists the truth to "win a "debate" point" or piss you off by dissing Canada.
In the US only 13 states allow and track statistics for assisted suicide where the distinction is that the patient has to push the button or push his/her own meds to snow himself or herself to death while being eaten alive by sepsis or some form of incurable cancer.
If the Doctor, Nurse, PA or some technician does it, it's euthanasia. No one records it as such in the USA since it's illegal in almost every state.
I am guessing that every insurer in America would have no problem with an American version of MAID.
Unsaid in Sean's ridiculous argument is that although euthanasia probably happens every hour in the USa it is recorded as a natural death whether or not the family pulled the plug acknowledging no hope or let the staff administer the hospitals maximum morphine dose.
Since Canada honestly tracks the information as a scientific statistic, Sean implies that it is some kind state sponsored murder regardless of the patient's diagnosis and quality of life.
Pay him no heed. he doesn't deserve your time.
You can always count on Gazoo to back your most incredulous claims.
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This is not the only article or comments that have indicated an inability to accept the fact that as a member of NT I have the right to SPEAK MY MIND and post ON TOPIC criticism relevant to the posted article without being subjected to an OFF TOPIC whataboutism posted in order to taunt or insult me.
When is the last time you were back in Canada?
2008. I admit I haven't PERSONALLY experienced Canada's healthcare. I only hear about it from my daughter in Toronto, a remaining Canadian classmate and what I've read in Canadian media.
By the way, does GDP per capita have anything to do with affordability of living? Doesn't the rate of personal expense? Where I live I'm sure GDP per capita is much lower even than in Canada, and I can live MUCH more affordably and comfortably here than even in Canada on a meagre pension.
All told, if Canada was our 51 state, it would represent the most populated state in the US, but only come in slightly ahead of our poorest (Mississippi). To put that in perspective, Canada would therefore represent the 50th poorest of our 51 states in relation to GDP.
Good thing Canada will never be the 51st state
There is NO WAY WHATSOEVER that Canada will be or will want to be the 51st State. What is happening there these days is enough to scare away ANY civilized nation, not just because of what is happening there now, but because of the possibility that it CAN happen. .
It's too bad. The best hockey team in the world could probably use some depth players from Canada.
What is happening there these days is enough to scare away ANY civilized nation
But you are right. Civlilzation matters and it's impossible to consider Canada a civilized nation at this point.
They can't even hold a funeral for a murdered kid there without crazies threatening even more mass violence.
I would venture that a poll done on the topic of comparing Canada's state of civilization with America's today would negate that statement, but it's useless to try to convince some people of how stupid that statement is.
While your understanding of what constitutes civilization speaks for itself, be aware the fifth leading cause of death in Canada is Canada's government.
That's not civilization.
Oh, that is SUCH bullshit. Next reply, as WILD and RIDICULOUS as that one is will get an IMPASSE. I'm not wasting any more time on insane comments. Even your sycophants should be too embarrassed to support such ignorant idiocy.
Alberta might.
Won't happen. Quebec once tried, unsuccessfully.
God knows, I do try to rationalize with you but I suppose there is little point.
In some places in Europe, words have different meaning than they do here in the States, god knows that's true in the UK and Australia
and Canada where the laws are DIFFERENT form the United States.
Euthanasia, also known as MAID in Canada is legal in Canada. the government tracks it for whatever magical statistical value it has for THEIR medical and insurance information needs.
Claiming the Canadian government is killing people who choose to take advantage of MAID is, to be polite, asinine on your behalf.
It's also none of your business until you become a resident of Canada.
Doctor, Nurse, PA assisted end of life happens in every hospital and hospice center in the states.
Palliative Hospice basically keeps the patient at home with enough drugs to kill him/her several times over when the patient chooses it
and we all lie to each other with the states blessing of a natural death due to cancer.
In most states if you die at home and there's no apparent crime, the death is recorded as natural, you cannot give the boxes of boxes of class 1 or class 3 drugs to the police or coroner - they aren't interested.
You can't take them to CVS for disposal unless they came from that drug store. If you have boxes upon boxes, no drug store wants them.
We have a rellie in the DEA who said flush them.
Our way is stupid and has a lot of loose ends and frankly dishonest reporting.
But its wholly dishonest for you to say that the Canadia MAID program is killing people or the fifth major cause of death in Canada.
Doesn't mean they don't want to.
I was in Mexico last week with more Canadians than I'd ever seen in one place outside of Canada. I learned a couple of things. First, they're a bit pissed about the whole tariff situation. Can't really blame them for that.
Also, the folks from Alberta, Manitoba, and "the interior" of British Columbia are really unhappy with how the place is being run.
Finally, apparently Alberta is "the Texas of Canada". I like 'em already.
Seems everybody has some kind of beef with their government. Alberta IS the Texas of Canada. That's where the Calgary Stampede is - a kind of big rodeo. There was a folksinger in Toronto who I knew, been to his ranch outside of Toronto. He was a kind of "urban cowboy". His name was Ian Tyson, and he was half of the duo called Ian and Sylvia. He wrote and sang a song called Four Strong Winds. He eventually moved to Alberta.. His wife was Sylvia Fricker (ergo Ian and Sylvia). He wrote ths song when they were breaking up.
Four Strong Winds
Weather's good there in the fall
I got some friends that I could go to working for
Still I wish you'd change your mind
If I ask you one more time
But we've been through this a hundred times or more
Seven seas that run high
All those things that don't change come what may
If the good times are all gone
Then I'm bound for moving on
I'll look for you if I'm ever back this way
And if things are looking good
You can meet me if I send you down the fare
But by then it would be winter
Not too much for you to do
And those winds sure can blow cold way out there
Seven seas that run high
All those things that don't change come what may
The good times are all gone
So I'm bound for moving on
I'll look for you if I'm ever back this way
If I ask you one more time
But we've been through that a hundred times or more
Seven seas that run high
All those things that don't change come what may
If the good times are all gone
Then I'm bound for moving on
I'll look for you if I'm ever back this way
I'll look for you if I'm ever back this way
The rest of this thread was removed for no value.
Damn. i was just getting warmed up.
the back channel chorus whining had probably reached a shrill crescendo ...
I take that back, he eventually checked in as usural.
First, if you're going to post data, format it like you respect it. A list of state names with numbers scattered several blank lines apart is not analysis; it is visual clutter. Present the comparison cleanly, or do not pretend it proves anything. I am sure you are capable of basic formatting.
Second, even if the GDP per capita figures are accurate, GDP is simply total output divided by population. It tells you nothing about median income, poverty rates, life expectancy, healthcare access, crime, or social stability. On actual measures of lived well being, Canada and Alabama are not remotely equivalent.
Thank you again Thomas.
Spring is just around the corner...
Thank you, Thomas, for making that point much clearer and understandable than I tried to do.
I'm sure you are capable of reading the article if formatting bothers you so much.
n actual measures of lived well being, Canada and Alabama are not remotely equivalent
Correct. Canadians are poor, have bad weather and little access to any health care that isn't designed to kill them..
A comment like that deserves a "stand-up" career. Too bad the "Borsht Belt" isn't still in business.
That's not "access" in any meaningful sense of the word.
An emergency is usually dealt with promptly. Note that I did say "usually" because the problem has come to the fore and is bound to be dealt with. However critical anyone can be about universal healthcare, it's still better than what's happening in America. You don't even KNOW how many people die because they can't afford healthcare.
A knee replacement isn't an emergency... unless of course you like walking.
Buzz, you have as much idea about what actually happens here as I do about what actually happens in China, which is damn near nothing. The difference is I realize that and give the Chinese the benefit of the doubt.
It's not universal health care if you can't actually get a doctor to see you.
You get emergency care in the USA whether you can pay for it or not. That's been the case for 40 years now.
Jack, I've been suffering with pain in one of my knees for about 10 years and sometimes it's hard to walk. I know it requires knee surgery, but I also know I'm not going to die because of it.
Since, as you say, I know nothing about healthcare in the USA then I'm really glad that nobody there dies or becomes bankrupt because they can't afford healthcare. I guess healthcare in the USA is far superior and far move available to all and much better than Universal Healthcare that is the system in most civilized western nations. As you probably know, I watch a lot of movies, and I know that movies often tell stories about what happens in real life. Did you ever watch the movie The Rainmaker?
I've waited that long for treatment. I'm on Tricare
A Canadian went viral on twitter for "bragging" that once referred, you can get an MRI in six months if you live in a big city.
I think that says it all.
In the US, you could have your knee replaced and be out of rehab before you could get in to a specialist office in Canada.
The overwhelming majority of us have insurance that pays for all that. Most of us get it as an employee benefit at work. If you don't get insurance at work, we have government programs that provide assistance for you to get coverage.
That's one of the reasons it costs so much more.
Are we now confusing movies with real life?
So you are telling me that in America NOBODY does without health care because they can't afford it and NOBODY goes bankrupt from having to pay for healthcare. Okay, then I'm wrong.......but I don't think so.
Movies OFTEN imitate life, and enough times they are based on real life stories.
I had to wait 2 weeks after calling the VA to make an appt, for a call back from them to make an appt for my dad, weeks later. in denver the police dept had an office next to the main entrance in the VA hospital.
Getting an MRI Scan in Toronto? What to Know Before You Go
LINK -> Getting an MRI Scan in Toronto? What to Know Before You Go | PocketHealth
Really? It's that simple. lol?
SMH
Yeah....military care is not all that great
lol
some don't have health care and cancer treatments can send you into bankruptcy
You understood, of course, that those statements I made were pure sarcasm.
now i do
They "should" be seen.
Yes. They should. That's the point.
Yeah. That's definitely one of the reasons it costs more
Not sure how that's in question.
How can that POSSIBLY be an EXACT figure? It HAS to be an approximation indicating that they ARE seen within such reasonable times. I'm just shaking my head at the DESPERATION that some members here have to put down Canadian heathcare.
'm just shaking my head at the DESPERATION that some members here have to put down Canadian heathcare.
I shake my at the obsession some have with putting down American healthcare despite the state of Pennsylvania having more MRI machines than the entire country of Canada..
Who said it was?
No it doesn't. It sounds very much like the guideline times they've set as goals. The actual data suggests they're not hitting those goals.
As much negative bullshit as you believe and repeat about the United States, you have no room to criticize anybody else. Canadian healthcare isn't perfect. I would say I'm sorry that upsets you so much, but that's your choice and I can't change it.
Plenty of Canadians are frustrated with the way they believe Canada has been mismanaged. Americans earn 25% more than Canadians, but our housing is 25% less. The lack of affordability for average Canadians is extensively well documented, while Trudeau and now Carney are preoccupied finding new and creative ways to be sanctimonious.
You may think paying for healthcare through a tax instead of a premium makes that all worthwhile. OK. Fine. But let's not pretend the system doesn't have it's own serious problems..... including lack of access to care.
I don't have an obsession for putting down American healthcare. You're the one who posted this seed and made the comparison the topic.
I admitted that problems of access have arisen, perhaps in the part of the comments that were deleted by Perrie.