Atheists Demand Removal of ‘Symbol of Christian Supremacy’ From POW/MIA Table Display
By: Dan Andros
Yet another attack against God and Christians in the military. It’s truly sad, the blatant bigotry and intolerance of militant secularism.
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
Atheists Demand Removal of ‘Symbol of Christian Supremacy’ From POW/MIA Table Display
A naval air station in Japan has raised the ire of at atheist activists and several sailors after a Bible was placed on the POW/MIA table at the Naval Air Facility Atsugi.
The Military Religious Freedom Foundation (MRFF) says they received 15 complaints about the “unconstitutional presence” of a Christian Bible on the facilities POW/MIA table display, and had promptly sent a letter “demanding that this symbol of Christian supremacy by swiftly removed.”
MRFF Founder and President Mikey Weinstein’s letter went on to alert Captain John M. Montagnet of a “very serious violation of the No Establishment Clause of the First Amendment of the United States Constitution sadly occurring under your direct command,” the warning read.
Weinstein went on to question Captain Montagnet’s leadership, writing “These sailors are justly fearful of unlawful retribution, revenge, retaliation and reprisal if they raise their complaints to you, sir, through your NAF Atsugi chain of command which obviously calls into question the command climate you are responsible for at NAF Atsugi. Thus, they have come to MRFF to carry their grievances to you directly, Captain Montagnet.”
According to military website Stripes.com, “The POW-MIA table is a tradition often found in official military dining facilities that honors missing and captured service members.”
Instruction of how to set up the table say it “must be round and include a white tablecloth, an empty chair, a black napkin, a single red rose, a yellow candle and ribbon, lemon slices, salt and an overturned wine glass.”
Stripes also reports that “The regulation says the display includes a Bible to represent “faith in a higher power and the pledge to our country, founded as one nation under God.”
Weinstein, who himself is an Air Force veteran, said ““This is not a move against Christianity, but one toward inclusivity. Not every sailor is a white, straight Anglo-Saxon Christian male.”
Base spokesman Sam Samuelson responded in a statement, saying ““The POW-MIA table here is a significant legacy display intended to memorialize and honor American POWs and MIAs among a varied military demographic and is certainly greater than the sum of its parts. We can absolutely balance the larger meaning of the table with appropriate policies and the interests of our diverse base culture.”
Weinstein added that his goal isn’t to eliminate Bibles, but rather to “promote religious diversity.” He also added that including the Bible in a display such as this “alienates service members of other cultural or religious groups and is wrong on every possible level.”
“No religious text, not just the Bible, has a place in that display,” he argued.
Weinstein did not elaborate on how excluding every religion and worldview, other than his own, promotes “religious diversity.”
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Are only Christian soldiers who were MIA to be honoured? Better to be neutral than to exclude other heroes by omitting their specific religious symbols - so instead of filling the table with symbols of the religions of every soldier who was MIA, it would be best to just remove the symbol of only one of them, and I am not an atheist.
There are plenty of atheists in foxholes.
Saw my share in combat making house calls when somebody screamed "Corpsman up!".
No it isn’t, I was one and knew more than a few others.
No, it's not.
Wrong again!
And again!
And again!
And again!
And again!
I could go on and on. But I assume you get the idea. Maybe.
If they’re atheists, then it would seem that by definition, they don’t have religious symbol to omit.
Yep. Think of it. By extending your logic, if there were no religious symbols on the table, then maybe only atheists would be honoured.
Or everyone is treated equally since atheism isn’t a religion.
It’s more about keeping everyone equal.
They are equal. A Bible on a table doesn’t change that.
Then lets put a small bophamet statue on it and see who gets all bent out of shape.
Good idea.
How so? Everyone gets equal representation. Unless of course you are suggesting that you ARE NOT an advocate of equality (which I know for a fact that you are not).
So you want to do it, not to bring comfort to people, but to piss someone off. Super.
Whoosh! That went over your head.
My point is the Bible is already pissing people off. Swapping one symbol for another just shift the yellow stream onto another group of people. Best there were no symbols.
Those people need to get over themselves.
The entire thing is a collection of symbols. The flag is a symbol. The napkin is a symbol. The candle is a symbol.
Our life, society, and traditions are full of symbols. You don’t have to get any joy out of them. That’s your right. But it’s selfish to demand we that have no symbols at all because of the intolerance of a few self-centered brats.
Go ahead, Tacos! Define the 'brats' in this situation. Please do it!
Or, it's the concept that we are a nation without a national faith, which means all were to be respected, not just one. This was so important to our founders, that it was included in our constitution, and promised by G. Washington.
I don’t see anyone being disrespected.
It’s bratty to begrudge someone else their good fortune, honor, praise, what have you. That’s all this seems to be about. No one is seeking greater inclusion. They just want to stick it either Christians or people of faith in general. That’s bratty.
That table is supposed to represent all servicemen and servicewomen. Yet it is a Christian bible on it. Does that represent all our service people? It sure the heck doesn't represent my dad or his entire family for the last 4 generations who have all served.
And the word I used was respect, not disrespect. It does not respect what my family gave to this nation. And it is not to stick it to Christians. We are not all Christians though.
We are a nation without a national religion and that was unique from our inception.
Does a black napkin? Does a candle? Isn’t it the thought that counts here? Do you really believe that the people in charge of displays like this are trying to give a big military middle finger to service members who aren’t Christians?
Your argument is framed wrong. MIA memorial displays are not in and of themselves religious memorials or celebrations of any one artifact. The emphasis is on the servicemember who is not and may never return. Think of it this way:
Should a temple, church, mosque, or other organization set up its own private memorial to missing service-members, then said organization/s can submit a formal request to the appropriate office to enhance its display with appropriate religious artifacts and garner approval.
It is never a loss to do what is right, even when it feels sorta weird and 'new.'
Right and truth, are happenings that never go our of style!
The whole table represents anyone from any culture that has served. And while the Christian Bible does not give the non-Christian military the middle finger, it is the prayer book of one faith and not all, and as part of the representation that table is trying to show it should represent all that have served.
How about the Christians get over themselves since the VA as an extension of the government is barred from picking one over the other.
I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt you're not being pedantic on purpose.
What's the fun in debating these things if we can't be at least a little pedantic? That never goes on around here? Anyway, if the worst thing you can say about how I respond to an argument is that it's pedantic, maybe the argument wasn't that good in the first place.
My feeling is that the argument against the Bible is probably disingenuous. I doubt the protestors seek fairness or inclusion, and I also doubt they give a crap about the First Amendment. I believe they are instead operating from spite, and I'm basically calling their bluff.
Okay. You got me there. LOL!
Why do you say that? What gives you that impression?
I do, you should and the VA certainly must.
I believe the author and those that follow them definitely operating from spite and entitlement AND I'm flat out calling their bluff.
A few things. First, they don't acknowledge the comforting benefit the book probably has for many people. Second, they don't acknowledge that it was probably put there for that benign and gentle purpose. And third, they don't seek to make the display more inclusive, they just seek to remove the one item because of their own discomfort with it.
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You are on ignore Texan, so get over yourself [deleted]
Not a code. Military slang.
It doesn’t belong there, but there are a lot of other areas where religion (Christianity primarily) and the military intersect that need to be addressed first.
I don’t see the harm. It honors people who happen to be Christian. If you’re not Christian, then it does nothing for you. There are other things there that may have no meaning for other people. maybe the candle means nothing to you. Maybe you’re not into the black napkin. Who cares? Why begrudge someone else a symbol that means something to them?
If someone else has something they’d like added, maybe they could suggest it. But why deprive other people of something that gives them comfort?
Just another example from the perpetual " I'm offended " crowd.
According to a web page from the Pew Research Center, Christianity accounts for some 70% of religious groups in the US.
How about this... if you don't like the inclusion of the bible on the Missing Man Table then don't look at it. How about we choose NOT to be offended.
Or just don’t put the Bible there in the first place. Or out every religious text there.
And if I don't like a prayer at my local high school football game, I can just not listen to it, eh?
well, yeah. Or don't bow your head, clasp your hands and join in. It's individual choice.
Why do us Christians get to decide what "choice" is? Who made us Christians guardian over the "Missing Man Table" anyway? Or, put us Christians in direction of 'prayer and supplication' at civic functions?
Where is the sense of esprit de corps? Why is it when a significant matter of faith is brought up to Christian tradition the defense for it is narrow-mindedness? Why not be open to other Americans' points of view?
To be clear, I am not stating that Christians capitulate to every 'ask' or issue placed before us as conflicting with society, but to at least consider if there is merit to the issue at-length and then proceeding appropriately and deliberately.
trust me, I don't
It places greater importance on Christians and excludes everyone else. Either honor everyone’s religious beliefs or leave religious beliefs out of it.
Not a huge deal to me when it comes to religion and the military, but the fairy tales should be left out.
It would only do that if people had been actively trying to get some other item put on the table, but were refused. Including a thing does not thereby exclude everything else.
What gets me is most liberals look at the Bible as a bunch of fairy tales, but yet, when they are excluded from those "fairy tales", they are offended.
These people make absolutely no sense.
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No one is offended about the fairy tales themselves (stupid as they are) but history is rife with examples of what happens when one religious group is favored by a government over others. And placing religious imagery of one religion in places of honor or on public display and not representing others is definitely sending the message that one is favored.
The military allows 66 religious symbols on grave stones. Either show all various texts or none.
It's not that difficult.
Their heads would explode if there was a Koran on that table. We have lots of pilot trainees who come in from all over the world, a lot from Saudi and Israel. I wonder what they think when they see that Bible on that table?
And before anyone says anything...that mess hall is open to everyone
And btw, if a Koran was placed on display with any other book, it would have to be on top of the stack according to Islamic tradition.
Somehow, I can imagine there would be those who would take issue with that.
Yes, I am sure that can cause a display issue. It is a custom that the Koran be at the "highest point", nevertheless.
Now that would cause a problem! Probably not to you, IDK, but I know a few here who would raise Holy Hell and Blasphemy about it
That is the way it goes! (Smile.)
Not every POW/MIA is Christian.
But for those who are, it’s a nice thing. Candles, roses, and black napkins don’t do anything for me - in fact, I’m kind of turned off by the napkin - but for those who get comfort from those items, they are out there, too. It’s kind of petty to whine about individual items on the table.
I just agree with a point made above. If you are going to do it for one religion, do it for all.
How could you possibly do it for all? Why would you even try?
Why choose one over the other.
I never said you had to choose anything over something else. Neither has anyone else. You’re addressing a straw man while ignoring the questions asked of you.
If one cannot fit all and chooses one, one chooses one.
Where is the evidence that there has been any desire or effort to fit all? Again, why would you want to?
We all understand the tradition (or should). However, now that the issue of religious bias has been raised, it must be treated fairly. Religious freedoms are not only about Abrahamic religions, anyway. I will remind us, our government classifies many non-profit organizations as religious, and each has artifacts, and members serving.
Then there is this group:
The typical problem here is conservatives who insist/demand that their wishes be honored pervasively in ordinary life. While that may have been the way of the past and becomes in its own way a STANDARD, times change and a NEW STANDARD takes its place.
The typical problem here is conservatism. It's NARROWMINDEDNESS. Change is the one thing conservatism can not truly abide. And that is a fact, "Jack"!
If god was worth a shit they wouldn’t be POW/MIA in the first place.
Btw, the headline from this article is very misleading, and I think intentionally so. It was not a group of atheists who wanted this changed. According to Stars and Stripes, the group who brought this was a A "religious freedom and diversity group" called "The Military Religious Freedom Foundation", who stated:
My reply to the the MRFF is to FOXTROT OSCAR ECHO SIERRA ALFA DELTA OUT
The biggest BS replies I have seem here are the ones that ask "what if it were a (place your non Christian symbol here)" replies.
What's bull patty about it, arkpdx? Let's get at it!