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Hidden monument, heavy message

  
Via:  XXJefferson51  •  4 years ago  •  70 comments

By:   Mathew White

Hidden monument, heavy message
Standing atop a giant octagonal pedestal is the 36-foot-tall statue, appropriately named Faith. Her eyes gaze eastward over the Atlantic, looking toward Plymouth, England, from where the Pilgrims fled. Her right hand points to heaven acknowledging the Creator. With a star on her forehead, Faith holds a partially opened Bible in her left hand, indicating the Word of God as the source of knowledge.

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What a beautiful memorial!  A monument to the vision and aspirations of the pilgrims. Their vision while not perfect was a great advancement of and for human liberty.  I must see this next time I visit friends on the east coast.  


S E E D E D   C O N T E N T



Hidden monument, heavy message


A striking monument in Massachusetts -- hidden from the masses by years of forested growth and city development -- clearly depicts the formula desired and applied by the Pilgrims, the biblical foundation that brought about the blessings and prosperity of this great nation.


In his journal, Of Plymouth Plantation, Governor William Bradford wrote, “Thus out of small beginnings greater things have been produced by His hand that made all things of nothing and gives being to all things that are; and as one small candle may light a thousand, so the light here kindled hath shone unto many, yea in some sort to our whole nation; let the glorious name of Jehovah have all praise.”

Those words are inscribed on a spectacular monument that, sadly, because of its remote location, is infrequently visited.

Located in Plymouth, Massachusetts, The National Monument to the Forefathers towers 81 feet tall. Dedicated in 1889, it took 30 years to build and is believed to be the world’s largest solid granite monument.

Most people are familiar with Plymouth Rock, but few know of the special monument erected in honor of the Mayflower passengers who journeyed to the New World in hopes of a better life.

Largely forgotten, the statue was brought back into the public eye by Kirk Cameron’s 2012 film, Monumental.

Virtues personified

Full of rich symbolism, the monument is a reminder of the foundation the Pilgrims laid as they sought a world in which they would be free to worship God according to their convictions.

Standing atop a giant octagonal pedestal is the 36-foot-tall statue, appropriately named Faith. Her eyes gaze eastward over the Atlantic, looking toward Plymouth, England, from where the Pilgrims fled. Her right hand points to heaven acknowledging the Creator. With a star on her forehead, Faith holds a partially opened Bible in her left hand, indicating the Word of God as the source of knowledge.

Flowing from Faith and seated below her are four additional Pilgrim virtues, allegorically personified as Morality, Law, Education, and Liberty.

Without eyes, Morality peers inward to examine her internal character, thus highlighting the need to first deal with issues of the heart that will ultimately affect external conduct. She holds the Ten Commandments in her left hand and the scroll of Revelation in her right, illustrating how morality flows from God’s Word, beginning to end.

Morality is seated beside Law, suggesting that God’s moral law extends into civil law. Subsequently, Law holds the civil code in his left hand, with his right hand extended in mercy.

Next comes Education. Seated with her open Bible, she wears a wreath of victory representing her inherent freedom to educate her children and train them up in the way they should go.

Seated last is Liberty. In his left hand, he holds broken chains, signifying that the chains of tyranny have been broken. English tyrants were represented as lions; thus Liberty has the skin of a slain lion draped over him, further depicting tyranny’s defeat. Liberty sits alert, a sheathed sword in his right hand indicating he does not want to fight but will if necessary.

The way back

Sometimes called “The Matrix of Liberty,” this striking monument clearly depicts the formula desired and applied by the Pilgrims, the biblical foundation that brought about the blessings and prosperity of this great nation.

Described as Plymouth’s best kept secret, years of forested growth and city development have hidden this monument from the masses. Likewise, years of apathy, complacency, and moral decay have hidden the virtues personified in the monument from the American way of life.

As the nation reels in turmoil, trying desperately to find its way, why not return to the Pilgrims’ way? It worked for them. It can work again.

See the monument

In film ... Though the film Monumental is out of production, it can be purchased at various online retailers. A low-resolution screening is available on YouTube.

In person ... 72 Allerton Street, Plymouth, Massachusetts



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XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
1  seeder  XXJefferson51    4 years ago
Full of rich symbolism, the monument is a reminder of the foundation the Pilgrims laid as they sought a world in which they would be free to worship God according to their convictions.

Standing atop a giant octagonal pedestal is the 36-foot-tall statue, appropriately named Faith. Her eyes gaze eastward over the Atlantic, looking toward Plymouth, England, from where the Pilgrims fled. Her right hand points to heaven acknowledging the Creator. With a star on her forehead, Faith holds a partially opened Bible in her left hand, indicating the Word of God as the source of knowledge.

Flowing from Faith and seated below her are four additional Pilgrim virtues, allegorically personified as Morality, Law, Education, and Liberty.

Without eyes, Morality peers inward to examine her internal character, thus highlighting the need to first deal with issues of the heart that will ultimately affect external conduct. She holds the Ten Commandments in her left hand and the scroll of Revelation in her right, illustrating how morality flows from God’s Word, beginning to end.

Morality is seated beside Law, suggesting that God’s moral law extends into civil law. Subsequently, Law holds the civil code in his left hand, with his right hand extended in mercy.

Next comes Education. Seated with her open Bible, she wears a wreath of victory representing her inherent freedom to educate her children and train them up in the way they should go.

Seated last is Liberty. In his left hand, he holds broken chains, signifying that the chains of tyranny have been broken. English tyrants were represented as lions; thus Liberty has the skin of a slain lion draped over him, further depicting tyranny’s defeat. Liberty sits alert, a sheathed sword in his right hand indicating he does not want to fight but will if necessary.

Sometimes called “The Matrix of Liberty,” this striking monument clearly depicts the formula desired and applied by the Pilgrims, the biblical foundation that brought about the blessings and prosperity of this great nation.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.1  devangelical  replied to  XXJefferson51 @1    4 years ago

if it's on public land, that thumper bullshit needs to be taken down.

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
1.1.1  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  devangelical @1.1    4 years ago

That’s not ever going to be happening.  

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1.1.2  JohnRussell  replied to  devangelical @1.1    4 years ago

Some who posted that America should follow the ways of the Pilgrms ,in 2021, is far beyond help. 

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
1.1.3  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1.2    4 years ago
During a recent visit to Plymouth, Massachusetts, I viewed the National Monument to the Forefathers, completed in 1889 and sitting on a relatively remote site in the town due to ensuing housing developments and other factors. It is a safe bet that most Americans, especially the youth of today, have never heard about this very special national monument honoring and symbolizing the labors, sacrifices, and sufferings of America’s 102 forefathers (Pilgrim men, women, and children) who landed at Plymouth in 1620. Unlike their fellow Englishmen who landed at Jamestown, Virginia in 1607 with an economic motivation, the Pilgrims came to the New World for civil and religious liberty. History tells us that nearly half of these people died from sickness and exposure during their first year in the New World. The National Monument to the Forefathers is the largest solid granite monument in the United States standing 81 feet in total height. By studying the monument, much can be learned by young and old alike about the principles and virtues of the Pilgrim settlers. These principles and virtues were ultimately carried over into the writing of America’s Declaration of Independence and Constitution. Due to the tremendous political divide in America today, I believe that America needs a resurgence of these early principles and virtues to enable the nation to continue as a thriving constitutional republic. To help enable this resurgence, a program is suggested to allow Americans of all ages living in each of the 50 states to view, study, and learn from suitable replicas of this important national monument.

Dedicated in 1889, The National Monument to the Forefathers in Plymouth, Massachusetts, (hereinafter referred to as “the monument”), is truly one of America’s most beautiful and meaningful monuments. The below photograph showing people viewing the monument indicates the size and general appearance of the monument:

In 1974, the monument was added to the National Register of Historic Places by the National Park Service as having “—exceptional value in commemorating and illustrating the history of the United States.” The monument is maintained by the Massachusetts Department of Conservation and Recreation with additional funding provided by Friends of the Forefathers, a 501(c)(3) non-profit public charity. Due to its relatively remote location in Plymouth, however, literature describing the monument states that it is “—Plymouth’s best kept secret” and that “—everyone visits Plymouth Rock, but most people miss the statue erected in honor of those 102 brave souls who boarded the Mayflower with hopes for a better life in the New World.”

As described below, the five virtues symbolized on the monument that were highly valued and practiced by the early Pilgrim settlers can serve as a strategy or roadmap for modern day Americans to emulate in order to preserve a vibrant constitutional republic.  Consequently, exposure to and study of the monument is very highly recommended.

The basic message symbolized by the monument is that the ultimate success of the Pilgrims’ settlement was mainly due to their unwavering, deep Christian faith in God and His provision for them. Thus, the tallest figure on the monument (see below photograph) is the personification of faith who symbolizes the virtue which most inspired the Pilgrims’ journey to the New World.  The right arm and hand of the faith figure is pointing upward toward God, and the left hand holds an open Christian Bible:

monument-2-e1539613249405-375x500.jpg

Surrounding and located below the faith figure are figures personifying four additional Pilgrim virtues which all stem from their overarching virtue of faith:  morality, law, education of youth, and civil and religious liberty.  The virtue of liberty , for example, is personified by a sitting figure of a warrior (see below photograph) who has overcome the tyrant King of England who persecuted the Pilgrims for their deep religious beliefs:

monument-3-422x500.jpg

The virtue of  morality is personified as a woman holding a tablet of the 10 Commandments in her left hand and the scroll of Revelation in her right. The virtue of law is personified by a seated draped male figure holding a book (the Bible) with his chair supported by justice and mercy. The virtue of education is personified by a seated draped female figure pointing to a book (the Bible) in her lap with her chair supported by wisdom and youth.

In 2012, actor Kirk Cameron produced and released a 90-minute documentary movie entitled “Monumental” describing the hardships and faith of the early Pilgrim settlers both in Europe and at Plymouth. Additionally, the documentary describes the monument in detail, including the five   Pilgrim virtues— see here for a short 15-minute video about the monument.

Cameron then discusses how emulation of these virtues can enable Americans today to return to the successful “virtue strategy” of the early Pilgrims. Such a course of action is deemed essential to the survival of the American republic…

read more:

 
 
 
SteevieGee
Professor Silent
1.2  SteevieGee  replied to  XXJefferson51 @1    4 years ago

A statue honoring Puritans.  Fleeing religious persecution and looking for religious freedom.  Wasn't it the Puritans who sacked the Winchester Cathedral?  They smashed all the stained glass windows and destroyed anything that they perceived to be a religious symbol.  When they got here they killed thousands of natives and burned 'witches', believing that they had divine providence.  How quickly the persecuted become the persecutors.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.2.1  devangelical  replied to  SteevieGee @1.2    4 years ago

[removed]

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
1.2.2  Ender  replied to  SteevieGee @1.2    4 years ago

Just read this.

The group that set out from Plymouth, in southwestern England, in September 1620 included 35 members of a radical Puritan faction known as the English Separatist Church. In 1607, after illegally breaking from the Church of England , the Separatists settled in the Netherlands, first in Amsterdam and later in the town of Leiden, where they remained for the next decade under the relatively lenient Dutch laws. Due to economic difficulties, as well as fears that they would lose their English language and herita ge, they began to make plans to settle in the New World. Their intended destination was a region near the Hudson River, which at the time was thought to be part of the already established colony of Virginia .

This part.. .as well as fears that they would lose their English language and herita ge... sounds awfully familiar...Haha

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
1.2.3  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  Ender @1.2.2    4 years ago

What’s awful about that? 

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Professor Participates
2  Thrawn 31    4 years ago
What a beautiful memorial!  A monument to the vision and aspirations of the pilgrims. Their vision while not perfect was a great advancement of and for human liberty. 

Lol I think the natives might have a different take. 

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
2.1  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  Thrawn 31 @2    4 years ago

You mean the ones they shared the first thanksgiving to God with?  

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Professor Participates
2.1.1  Thrawn 31  replied to  XXJefferson51 @2.1    4 years ago

LOL, holy shit! Are you fucking serious? WOW. Just...wow....

I mean you have impressed me before on many occasions, but I think you have REALLY outdone yourself here. A truly incredible display of ignorance. 

 
 
 
Hallux
Professor Principal
2.1.2  Hallux  replied to  XXJefferson51 @2.1    4 years ago

What thanksgiving did the Native Americans get in return for their generosity in providing most of the food?

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Professor Participates
2.1.3  Thrawn 31  replied to  Hallux @2.1.2    4 years ago

The fucking HONOR of being wiped out by disease and further brutalized by european immigrants. Fucking wish I could go out like that.

Jesus what is it with you people, are you never satisfied? 

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
2.1.4  devangelical  replied to  Hallux @2.1.2    4 years ago

...a lead ball at 700 fps when the dishes were done.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
2.1.5  Kavika   replied to  XXJefferson51 @2.1    4 years ago

The so called ''First Thanksgiving'' is really a load of BS but no surprise that you believe it.

 
 
 
Hallux
Professor Principal
3  Hallux    4 years ago

It's hidden?

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
3.1  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  Hallux @3    4 years ago
A striking monument in Massachusetts -- hidden from the masses by years of forested growth and city development --
 
 
 
Hallux
Professor Principal
3.1.1  Hallux  replied to  XXJefferson51 @3.1    4 years ago

So says your author blatantly trying to arouse the "masses" (a favorite commie term). 

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
3.2  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  Hallux @3    4 years ago

Plymouth’s Huge Yet Little-Known Monument to the Pilgrims

Previous
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https://flickr.com/photo.gne?id=3962824217">National Monument to the Forefathers &middot; Flickr / Chris Devers</a>" style="color:#3f9ce8;text-decoration:none;" tabindex="-1" > 3962824217_dee2357de6.jpg
https://flickr.com/photo.gne?id=3962822745">National Monument to the Forefathers &middot; Flickr / Chris Devers</a>" style="color:#3f9ce8;text-decoration:none;" tabindex="-1" > 3962822745_e1755e9547.jpg
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https://flickr.com/photo.gne?id=43016617722">Memorial to the Forefathers &middot; Flickr / Boyd Shearer</a>" style="color:#3f9ce8;text-decoration:none;" tabindex="-1" > 43016617722_880b5dc641.jpg
https://flickr.com/photo.gne?id=42163170215">Memorial to the Forefathers &middot; Flickr / Boyd Shearer</a>" style="color:#3f9ce8;text-decoration:none;" tabindex="-1" > 42163170215_88f02614f5.jpg
https://flickr.com/photo.gne?id=14709403839">IMG_0625 &middot; Flickr / GANDALF_GREY</a>" style="color:#3f9ce8;text-decoration:none;" tabindex="-1" > 14709403839_7b1f0f4332.jpg
https://flickr.com/photo.gne?id=14873052356">IMG_0628 &middot; Flickr / GANDALF_GREY</a>" style="color:#3f9ce8;text-decoration:none;" tabindex="-1" > 14873052356_398862f686.jpg
https://flickr.com/photo.gne?id=14709503137">IMG_0629 &middot; Flickr / GANDALF_GREY</a>" style="color:#3f9ce8;text-decoration:none;" tabindex="-1" > 14709503137_5686ed7411.jpg
https://flickr.com/photo.gne?id=14896011095">IMG_3210 &middot; Flickr / GANDALF_GREY</a>" style="color:#3f9ce8;text-decoration:none;" tabindex="-1" > 14896011095_b1405c63e5.jpg
https://flickr.com/photo.gne?id=14709483657">IMG_3256 &middot; Flickr / GANDALF_GREY</a>" style="color:#3f9ce8;text-decoration:none;" tabindex="-1" > 14709483657_d1e51b46d6.jpg
https://flickr.com/photo.gne?id=10531351555">National Monument to the Forefathers &middot; Flickr / Gary Lee Todd, Ph.D.</a>" style="color:#3f9ce8;text-decoration:none;" tabindex="-1" > 10531351555_b1f12eb5b0.jpg
https://flickr.com/photo.gne?id=7857509670">Plymouth Massachusetts Monument &middot; Flickr / Michael Kappel</a>" style="color:#3f9ce8;text-decoration:none;" tabindex="-1" > 7857509670_1698e39238.jpg
https://flickr.com/photo.gne?id=7857508568">Plymouth Ma Monument &middot; Flickr / Michael Kappel</a>" style="color:#3f9ce8;text-decoration:none;" tabindex="-1" > 7857508568_1de38d9ef0.jpg
https://flickr.com/photo.gne?id=7857507852">Plymouth Forefathers Monument &middot; Flickr / Michael Kappel</a>" style="color:#3f9ce8;text-decoration:none;" tabindex="-1" > 7857507852_6ffdd149b5.jpg
https://flickr.com/photo.gne?id=7857507082">Plymouth Massachusetts Forefathers Monument &middot; Flickr / Michael Kappel</a>" style="color:#3f9ce8;text-decoration:none;" tabindex="-1" > 7857507082_b2e3fdd34d.jpg
https://flickr.com/photo.gne?id=7857505338">Plymouth MA Pilgrim Monument &middot; Flickr / Michael Kappel</a>" style="color:#3f9ce8;text-decoration:none;" tabindex="-1" > 7857505338_9f69ac0daf.jpg
https://flickr.com/photo.gne?id=7857503638">Pilgrim Monument &middot; Flickr / Michael Kappel</a>" style="color:#3f9ce8;text-decoration:none;" tabindex="-1" > 7857503638_f19b956730.jpg
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Sitting atop a hill in Plymouth, Massachusetts, and gazing across the sea toward Plymouth, England, is the largest freestanding solid-granite monument in the world. For something so big, it is strangely little known to its neighbors.

Made as a tribute to the Pilgrims who landed the Mayflower at Plymouth and their religious values, and reaching 81 feet tall, the National Monument to the Forefathers took 30 years to build in the late 19th century. A 36-foot-tall sculpture representing “Faith” tops the monument. Sitting on buttresses extending from four sides of the octagonal pedestal are smaller allegorical figures, each carved from a single block of granite.

 
 
 
Hallux
Professor Principal
3.2.1  Hallux  replied to  XXJefferson51 @3.2    4 years ago

Too many trees in the way, is there a clearer view?

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
3.2.2  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  Hallux @3.2.1    4 years ago

A great view from it to the ocean.  The view from nearby roads and highways and populated areas is where the problem is being described.  

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
4  JohnRussell    4 years ago

Well at least it is the 4th of July which is somewhat of a fig leaf for you posting all this hyper founding fathers stuff.  You really should put it all on hold after tomorrow though. 

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
4.1  Ronin2  replied to  JohnRussell @4    4 years ago

Where the hell do you get off telling anyone what to post and not to post?

Isn't there some TDS driven article out there for you to be seeding? I am sure you haven't sourced the entire internet yet. Somewhere there is another article that has no sources, no facts, and absolutely no information anyone outside of those with chronic TDS would believe for you to find. 

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
4.1.1  Ender  replied to  Ronin2 @4.1    4 years ago

My my. Is someone a little testy this morning?

I saw no where where he was telling people what to post.

A suggestion is how I read it. A suggestion of unity instead of posting constant divisive shit on a holiday.

Seems some don't care for unity.

By the way, if 53% of republicans actually think donald is still the president, we all know where the true tds lies.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
4.1.2  JohnRussell  replied to  Ronin2 @4.1    4 years ago

There is no such things as TDS.  

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
4.1.4  JohnRussell  replied to  Texan1211 @4.1.3    4 years ago

jrSmiley_10_smiley_image.gif Put your mirror down. 

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Professor Participates
4.1.5  Thrawn 31  replied to  Texan1211 @4.1.3    4 years ago

[removed]

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
4.1.6  Ronin2  replied to  Ender @4.1.1    4 years ago

Someone else chirping in from this site's circle jerk party?

I saw no where where he was telling people what to post.

Actually what not to post; but I guess you missed that part.

A suggestion is how I read it. A suggestion of unity instead of posting constant divisive shit on a holiday.

So if an article doesn't pass the muster of someone from the left wing circle jerk party; then it should be posted? Guess the only "unity" that matters is keeping the standards of those on the left.

Seems some don't care for unity.

Again, it is not unity, it is compliance many on the left seek. 

By the way, if 53% of republicans actually think donald is still the president, we all know where the true tds lies.

Still don't know what the definition of TDS is after 5 plus years of chronic bullshit by Democrats, the media, and their lemmings hanging on every lie uttered? Here is the definition of TDS. From CNN no less. 

Let’s start with what Trump Derangement Syndrome means.

Urban Dictionary offers up this handy definition : “Trump Derangement Syndrome (TDS) is a mental condition in which a person has been driven effectively insane due to their dislike of Donald Trump, to the point at which they will abandon all logic and reason.”

Justin Raimondo , the editorial director of Antiwar.com,   wrote a piece in the Los Angeles Times in 2016   that broke TDS down into three distinct phases or stages:

  1. “In the first stage of the disease, victims lose all sense of proportion. The president-elect’s every tweet provokes a firestorm, as if 140 characters were all it took to change the world.”
  2. “The mid-level stages of TDS have a profound effect on the victim’s vocabulary: Sufferers speak a distinctive language consisting solely of hyperbole.”
  3. “As TDS progresses, the afflicted lose the ability to distinguish fantasy from reality.”

LIKE WHAT YOU'RE READING?

The Point here is simple:   TDS is, in the eyes of its adherents, the knee-jerk opposition from liberals (and Never Trumpers) to anything and everything Trump does. If Trump announced he was donating every dollar he’s ever made, TDS sufferers would suggest he was up to something nefarious, according to the logic of TDS. There’s nothing –   not. one. thing.   – that Trump could do or say that would be received positively by TDSers.

The history of Trump Derangement Syndrome actually goes back to the early 2000s – a time when the idea of Trump as president was a punch line for late-night comics and nothing more.

Wikipedia traces its roots to “Bush Derangement Syndrome” –   a term first coined by the late conservative columnist Charles Krauthammer   back in 2003. The condition, as Krauthammer defined it, was “the acute onset of paranoia in otherwise normal people in reaction to the policies, the presidency – nay – the very existence of George W. Bush.”

RELATED ARTICLE The definitive ranking of 2020 Democrats

Added Krauthammer:

“Some clinicians consider this delusion – that Americans can only get their news from one part of the political spectrum – the gravest of all. They report that no matter how many times sufferers in padded cells are presented with flash cards with the symbols ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, NPR, PBS, Time, Newsweek, New York Times, Washington Post, L.A. Times – they remain unresponsive, some in a terrifying near-catatonic torpor.”
 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
4.1.7  Ender  replied to  Ronin2 @4.1.6    4 years ago

The Left! The Left! The big bad Left!

Please...

I know exactly what tds is and yes I stick with my opinion that it afflicts the people that worship the ground he walks on.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
4.1.8  Ender  replied to  Ronin2 @4.1.6    4 years ago
You really should

Should means a suggestion whether you want to admit it or not.

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Professor Participates
4.1.9  Thrawn 31  replied to  Ronin2 @4.1    4 years ago

Where in the hell do you get off?

Just kinda curious since you brought it up to be honest. 

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
4.1.10  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  Ender @4.1.1    4 years ago

There should be nothing divisive about either of my pro America 🇺🇸 patriotic articles i seeded today.  

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Professor Participates
4.1.11  Thrawn 31  replied to  XXJefferson51 @4.1.10    4 years ago
patriotic

Uh huh. Tell me, what have you actually done for the country? What have you sacrificed or been willing to sacrifice for the country?

Me, it was my life. I volunteered to go to war to fight for my country and die if needed.

What have you DONE?

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Professor Participates
4.1.12  Thrawn 31  replied to  Thrawn 31 @4.1.11    4 years ago

[removed]

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
4.1.13  Ender  replied to  XXJefferson51 @4.1.10    4 years ago

Everything you post you try to make into some religious exercise.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
4.1.14  devangelical  replied to  Ronin2 @4.1    4 years ago

[removed]

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Professor Participates
4.1.15  Thrawn 31  replied to  Texan1211 @4.1.3    4 years ago

Damn sweetheart, did I offend you?

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Guide
4.1.16  Gordy327  replied to  Thrawn 31 @4.1.11    4 years ago
Me, it was my life. I volunteered to go to war to fight for my country and die if needed.

Thank you for your service. You actually defended our country like a true patriot rather than wave the flag around and pretend to be one like some I could name.

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Professor Participates
4.1.17  Thrawn 31  replied to  Gordy327 @4.1.16    4 years ago

The more someone claims to be a patriot the more of a pussy they are in my mind. You only throw that out there left and right when you know it isn't true. 

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Guide
4.1.18  Gordy327  replied to  Thrawn 31 @4.1.17    4 years ago
The more someone claims to be a patriot the more of a pussy they are in my mind. You only throw that out there left and right when you know it isn't true. 

I tend to agree. The same can be said of those proclaiming (or pretending) to be more religious/righteous than others too.

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Professor Participates
4.1.20  Thrawn 31  replied to  Texan1211 @4.1.19    4 years ago

Are you? Please don't report me.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
4.1.21  devangelical  replied to  Thrawn 31 @4.1.11    4 years ago

[Deleted]

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
4.1.22  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  Ender @4.1.13    4 years ago

There is no separation of our 1776 founding, our founding document, our founding fathers, their words and writings from God and religion.  They are so extensively intertwined that one must kill off the memory of 1776 and the origins of our nation and banish it all completely in order to end the association between our nation and God.  Of course that’s what the 1619 project is actually all about.  

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Professor Participates
4.1.23  Thrawn 31  replied to  devangelical @4.1.21    4 years ago

[Deleted]

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
4.1.24  Ender  replied to  XXJefferson51 @4.1.22    4 years ago

No matter what you say laws and our government is secular.

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Professor Participates
4.1.25  Thrawn 31  replied to  XXJefferson51 @4.1.22    4 years ago

How high are you right now? 

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Guide
4.1.27  Gordy327  replied to  Ender @4.1.24    4 years ago
No matter what you say laws and our government is secular.

As was intended by the Founding Fathers and clearly indicated in some of their writings.

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Professor Participates
4.1.28  Thrawn 31  replied to  Texan1211 @4.1.26    4 years ago

Oh shit, just got reported. 

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Professor Participates
4.1.30  Thrawn 31  replied to    4 years ago

are you serious? I just have to ask and every bad thing I have done is nullified?

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
4.1.32  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  Ender @4.1.24    4 years ago

I never said otherwise.  Government is secular with no state religion.  As to laws, religious people can influence them.  

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Guide
4.1.33  Gordy327  replied to  XXJefferson51 @4.1.32    4 years ago
As to laws, religious people can influence them.

Sure religious people, along with anyone, can influence laws. But laws cannot be based on religion.

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
4.1.35  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  Gordy327 @4.1.33    4 years ago

They can be if they also have a secular purpose.  

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Guide
4.1.36  Gordy327  replied to  XXJefferson51 @4.1.35    4 years ago

No, they cannot. Laws must have a secular purpose, per the SCOTUS.

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
4.1.37  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  Gordy327 @4.1.36    4 years ago

That’s what I just said.  A law can have a secular purpose that also has side effects that can work out.  Like a law that provides educational services or safety equipment for schools and students has to benefit all schools and students, thus the secular purpose that religious schools and their students benefit from per the Supreme Court.  Some very recent decisions.  The key now is to design regulations and laws with covering secular purpose that also work to the benefit of believers as well and make it so if the law is attacked legally and loses, that those benefitting from the secular part of it lose more than the believers if it’s stricken.  

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Guide
4.1.38  Gordy327  replied to  XXJefferson51 @4.1.37    4 years ago
That’s what I just said.

No, you said they can be [based on religion] if it also conforms to a secular purpose. That is not quite accurate. Laws must have a strict secular purpose behind their intent. A law might coincide with a religious tenet (i.e. no murder), but the law itself must be strictly based on a secular purpose or intent.

make it so if the law is attacked legally and loses, that those benefitting from the secular part of it lose more than the believers if it’s stricken.  

That's not how it works. Any law can be challenged. Whether a law is struck down or not is up to the courts to decide, based on Constitutional grounds. It's not about who wins or loses.

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
4.1.39  Greg Jones  replied to  Ender @4.1.13    4 years ago

Everything you post you try to make into some religious exercise.

So what? You still have the option to ignore

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
4.1.41  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  Texan1211 @4.1.40    4 years ago

That’s true.  It’s also hard to discuss the pilgrims, the Mayflower compact and their accomplishments and this monument to them without discussing religion since religion and the desire for being different and having religious liberty to be so is the whole point what they came here and started a colony here.  

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
4.2  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  JohnRussell @4    4 years ago

You do realize that Independence Day is the celebration 🎊 of our founding as a nation, the founders, and the Declaration of Independence?  That’s what the parades and feasts and fireworks 🎆 are all about.  

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
4.3  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  JohnRussell @4    4 years ago

Not a chance.  It’s all about 1776, and preserving it for our children and grandchildren 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
5  JohnRussell    4 years ago
As the nation reels in turmoil, trying desperately to find its way, why not return to the Pilgrims’ way? It worked for them. It can work again.

What a bizarre thought.

Massachusetts - the Witches, the Pilgrims and the Mayflower - Have RV Will Roam... (weebly.com)

In 1692, led by the hysterical accusations of a handful of bored Puritan teenage girls, over 150 innocent men and women were accused and imprisoned under the charge of witchcraft in Salem, Massachusetts. Of those, 29 went to trial and all were found guilty.

It was a true kangaroo court: The girls came to court to accuse their ‘tormentors’ and would often throw hysterical fits, claiming to see the spectral evidence of the devil, sent by the accused to attack them. If a verdict of not guilty was handed down, the testimony from the girls would simply continue until the jury could comfortably settle on a guilty verdict.

1416740_orig.jpg
 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
5.1  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  JohnRussell @5    4 years ago

Someone born the day the pilgrims arrived would have been over 70 years old then.  Not everyone coming after the pilgrims held to their ideals though some had even higher ideals and founded Pennsylvania and Rhode Island.  

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
5.2  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  JohnRussell @5    4 years ago

As usual the detractors of our history focus solely on and accentuate the negative.  While ignoring any and all positive contributions to what we are today.  

 
 

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