You have to wonder why the Dems show little interest in getting to truth about the origins of this virus.

What difference does it make? We know it came from China and most people probably assumed it came from a lab. I'm more concerned about ending the virus than focusing on its origins.

It's better to focus on priorities. Dealing with the pandemic should be the priority. There will be plenty of time for finger pointing and whining later. 

Respirator hoses fail in deadly flu experiments

Equipment failures of air-purifying respirators potentially exposed workers to the deadly H5N1 strain of avian influenza during separate incidents in June and September 2014 at the USDA's Southeast Poultry Research Laboratory in Athens, Ga., records obtained under the Freedom of Information Act show.

In the September 2014 incident, an animal caretaker in a BSL-3 lab noticed decreased airflow to their respirator and discovered that a hose had separated from its coupling. The worker was put on an antiviral medication for 10 days and told to monitor for fever, but no infection resulted, the records say.

Lab officials, in response to questions from USA TODAY, said the worker's risk of exposure was low because chickens were inside HEPA-filtered "animal isolation units" and negative-air-pressure cages that contain the virus in the cage, rather than in the larger room.

UNC has string of lost mice

Between April 2013 and September 2014, eight individual mouse escapes were reported at the University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill.

Due to the inbred nature of the mice, their behavior varies wildly and the university claimed the large number of escapes was not a reflection of a failure to train personnel.

In that same 18-month period, university officials wrote that lab staff handled mice roughly 54,000 times, so the escape rate is about 0.001%.

Despite those considerations, officials with the NIH called the escapes "concerning." Several of the mice were infected with either SARS or the H1N1 flu virus.

The NIH said that "it appears the measures taken by the University of North Carolina to reduce the likelihood of these events have not been effective" and ordered an action plan to address engineering controls, training and other activities to reduce the risk of escapes.

usatoday

Yes, repeating the seed within a seed is spamming because you will not or cannot discuss anything legitimately.

If the suspicion was that the virus leaked out of a lab in , say, Poland rather than China, would we be getting this constant frenzy from the right suggesting we must immediately find out what happened?  I find that highly unlikely.  China is a right wing whipping boy , because it is partially communist, so the ire of the right goes to them like a magnet. 

How about if the virus originated in Saudi Arabia? Would Trump be ranting against Saudi Arabia on a daily basis?  Give me a break. Trump couldnt even muster up the guts to confront them on the murder of the Washington Post reporter who was beheaded and dismembered on the orders of the Saudi prince. One account suggests Trump even joked about it.  No, there would have been no Trump condemnation of Saudi Arabia if they had caused the virus. 

He picks his enemies carefully. 

Blaming China (or any other country we don't like) us the politically popular thing to do for some. I have no doubt that if a viral pandemic originated in the US, other countries would be hating on us. But regardless of where the virus originated, it would make sense to put political fingerpointing and partisanship aside and focus on eliminating the pandemic.

I agree that accountability and future prevention is important. All I'm saying is the current priority should be to fight the spread of the virus. The other steps can come after once the pandemic is under control.

Put it context Kathleen.  The Black Plaque killed 33% of the know human population = 25 million people.

This flu has only killed 5.4% of the 7.9 Billion people

The genie can't be put back in the bottle and there is no rational point to "proving" a point

other than going to war with the largest Country in the world. 

We are susceptible to world wide periodic outbreaks of diseases since history has been recorded.

mphonline

What difference does it make?

Four million deaths and that's your response?  Can't make this up. 

Well SP I am going to have to disagree with you on this one.

No problem with that.

 I think the circumstances are  different here.

Not provable in my opinion

I also think that they can pay without a war.

So you have already judged them, good to know.

They owe the world an explanation.

What you are saying is that their current explanations aren't what you want to hear.

I don't think you will ever hear what you want from the Chinese government.

Reminds one of all of the Cold War espionage and what the involved parties knew

or thought they knew.

Yes, that is my response! We all know it came from China, as I said. Does that change anything? Now the focus should be on stopping the virus so there are no more deaths. I'd say that takes immediate precedence. Do you disagree?

The Black Plaque killed 33% of the know human population = 25 million people. This flu has only killed 5.4% of the 7.9 Billion people

COVID has killed less than 4.5 million world wide so not even close to 5.4%. The flu has only been around for a year a half and it's still going and changing the Black Death was a seven year plague (I wonder if it had different strains). I wonder how many jackasses are messing with COVID using CRISPR ?

Now the focus should be on stopping the virus so there are no more deaths

Do you know what a false choice is? Because you've created the textbook example.

Figuring out the origins of the virus  will also save lives, of course.  

I think the first coming of the Bubonic plague killed 25 million, half of Europe's population.

The second bubonic plaque lasted 7 years and killed between 75 & 200 million people worldwide.

We have many advantages this time. We understand what we are dealing with, we just can't convince every

one to mask, wash hands and vaccinate.

Seems so simple...

Contrary to the belief of some of the members here, and the necessity of pointing and blaming in order to absolve their own country of any responsibility, I do NOT defend China for its original cover-up, although they provided information in time for others to act diligently, and please do not try to tell me that Trump did not delay requiring proper procedures to contain the virus, and that the mishmash of different States' requirements to follow the effective guidelines did not contribute greatly to America's losses.  Personally, as much as you would like to have your questions answered, as long as America politicizes everything in its quest to contain China, and interferes with its domestic policies, there is no way the Chinese government will ever be forthcoming.

Polio, smallpox and cholera, the many variations of SARS, keep coming back decade after decade, killing and maiming people.  Cancers.

So you think the Chinese Government is not hiding anything and telling the truth? 

I want to hear the truth. We all need to know that. 

Personally, as much as you would like to have your questions answered, as long as America politicizes everything in its quest to contain China, and interferes with its domestic policies, there is no way the Chinese government will ever be forthcoming.

Fixed it for you. You're welcome.

You did not answer my question.

No, I didn't.  It's immaterial to my experiences.

Do you think the Chinese Government is hiding anything and telling the truth?

I worked in the US Government in several capacities and was an elected official for a few years. No one ever tells the whole truth.  Everyone has an agenda be it politics or personal advancement. When attacked units behave like the police, they close ranks and stay quiet.  That should have been obvious to anyone who lived through the Cold War

( which just continues at a lesser pace, but it's still there )

The virus may not care but the families of the people that died from it might.

Loss is not specific to dying from a virus. Loss is natural. Death is unavoidable.

A asteroid you can’t stop, but carelessness can be.

Ever own a home or a car that didn't leak, settle or peel?  Remember the Challenger or Columbia disasters?

Best human engineers in the world. You can say carelessness but I won't.

Remember the UNC mice that were infected with SARS?

A mouse is going to do what a mouse does, squeeze through the space of a quarter and seek freedom.

It's his nature.

A virus seeks a host to reproduce, it's it's nature.

We humans try to control nature but we have a long way to go in that pursuit.

Just read the last sentence of my comment again.  

No, you fixed it for yourself and others who only seek to disparage what another person has posted. 

Are you saying that you're in agreement with America's "Tonya Harding" method of preventing another nation from advancing?

I think Singapore's Prime Minister has a very sensible opinion concerning the present situation between the USA and China - the most recent article I posted on the Confucius group.

Well, as you know there are various opinions about what really happened, and probably, because of the lack of transparency that the CCP is known for, nobody will ever know what really happened if in fact it originated in China.  

Shouldn't the people know how much the CDC and Dr. Fauci were involved...what did they know, and when did they know it.

After all, the left has been so eager to pin the whole blame on Trumps supposed incompetence of dealing with the pandemic when the evidence says otherwise.

Shouldn't the people know how much the CDC and Dr. Fauci were involved...what did they know, and when did they know it. After all, the left has been so eager to pin the whole blame on Trumps supposed incompetence of dealing with the pandemic when the evidence says otherwise.

What the public needs to know is how the government assesses risks associated with biological and medical research funded by the government.  The public also needs to know how the government performs oversight to mitigate those risks.

In this situation it appears the government dropped a wad of cash on the table based on the promise of 'advances in scientific knowledge'.  There doesn't appear to have been any evaluation of risks involved or any oversight to ensure the work was done safely and securely.  The government provided funds but has been denied access which prohibits performing oversight.

The NIH was provided appropriations and, it appears, was motivated to 'use it or lose it'.  If the NIH doesn't spend appropriated funds then the next budget request may be reduced.  A typical mindset among government administrators is to spend money on anything to protect appropriation levels.  So, it's quite possible the risks were never evaluated and there never was any plan to perform oversight.

Good assessment.

The NIH was provided appropriations and, it appears, was motivated to 'use it or lose it'.  If the NIH doesn't spend appropriated funds then the next budget request may be reduced.  A typical mindset among government administrators is to spend money on anything to protect appropriation levels.  So, it's quite possible the risks were never evaluated and there never was any plan to perform oversight.

Correct.

When I lived on Hamilton AFB the drought was pretty severe and the locals in SanRafael and Novato watched their lawns die off and many simply converted to rocks and desert plants.Technically Marin County is mainly desert according to rainfall totals...

But the base was lush with green grass everywhere with sprinklers going off everywhere and crews cutting grass all week long.( not just on the golf course, )

The "use it or lose it" rules pervade everything in government, right down to the toilet paper inventory.  So that base literally dumped water on the ground day in and day out for years to maintain 'readiness' even after it was BRAC'dmuch to the chagrin of the locals.

I have dozens of similar examples.

Pay no attention to Drak.  He insists that there was no coup - but Nancy Pelosi is the one who came closest to a 'legitimate coup' whatever the fuck that is.

For the record, Tessylo is correct that I don't think what happened on the 6th of Jan was a coup. As far as the "legitimate coup" goes, that is a misunderstanding on her part of something I said somewhere else. I did not argue that there are legitimate coups. Although I did say that, in my opinion, what Pelosi did in contacting the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs was closer to a coup than what happened on Jan 6th, I asked someone else if they were arguing for legitimate coups. 

Whether anyone should pay attention to what I say I leave to the individual. 

Do you know what a false choice is? Because you've created the textbook example.

I've offered no choice. Merely a statement of fact. Or do you disagree that stopping the virus is a priority?

Figuring out the origins of the virus  will also save lives, of course.  

That will be helpful in preventing potential future outbreaks. It does nothing to address the virus now. 

I don't know.  Nobody does for sure.  

So far the preponderance of evidence is a lot of could be finger pointing.

BREAKING NEWS:

A GQP Committee has determined that Chinese secret agents lit the wildfires in the western USA.

A GQP Committee has determined that all Chinese Christian males have had their balls cut off to prevent an increase in the number of Christians in the country. 

A GQP Committee has determined that Trump actually got 15 million votes more than Biden last November.

A GQP Committee has determined that the Coronavirus was accidentally leaked from a Chinese lab.

Watch TheNewsTalkers for more up-to-date breaking news.

The core issues concerning the Wuhan Institute of Virology involve funding and safety.

The United States government did provide public funding but is being denied access for purposes of oversight.  The WIV obviously spent the money provided by the United States government but we don't know what that money was used for.  The argument has been made that government funds were not directly provided to the WIV; the WIV was essentially a sub-contractor for a grant recipient in the US.  But that arrangement should raise concerns over the ability of the US government to perform oversight on how public funds are used.

Safety should be a major concern.  We know the Wuhan Institute of Virology was collecting and cataloging coronaviruses in bats.  And we know these bat viruses are potential human pathogens.  What we don't know are the safeguards employed to protect workers who collected the samples and performed the analysis to identify and catalog the samples.  The WIV program involved field work performed outside the laboratory.  The possibility of the COVID-19 virus escaping the lab includes that field work performed outside the lab.

As to gain-of-function research, keep in mind that the Delta variant of the COVID-19 virus arose from an uncontrolled gain-of-function.  Viruses can gain function in the wild from natural mutation.  The purpose of laboratory research on gain-of-function is to control and speed the process of natural mutation found in the wild.  The virus is not genetically engineered; the virus is grown under controlled conditions that favors natural mutation that results in gain of function.  The laboratory research controls the randomness found in the wild but does not alter the natural process of mutation found in the wild.  The virus, itself, is not manipulated and is allowed to mutate naturally under controlled conditions that favors mutations that gain function.  But it's not possible to direct those natural mutations toward gaining a specific function so it's not really possible to predict or determine the risks of producing a deadly human pathogen.  Gain-of-function research is sort of a game of pandemic Russian roulette.  That's why safety protocols and oversight are very important.  And the core issues concerning the Wuhan Institute of Virology involve oversight and safety.

The possibility of the COVID-19 virus escaping the lab includes that field work performed outside the lab.

Bingo. There was anecdotal evidence of the miners collecting/cleaning or harvesting bat guano samples getting sick in 2012.

3 of the 6 died. Samples were collected at the time by the WIV. 

There was never an attempt ( what would work? ) to eradicate the virus at the source. What's the point?  Infected bats probably flew miles and miles every night in every direction until they died and were consumed by other organisms, slowly spreading the virus.

wsj

The bats more likely returned to their caves instead of flying away. The collected samples ended up in the Wuhan Lab, from which the enhanced virus eventually escaped.

Well there's your new project Greg.  Invent the ultimate virus trap and you will reap the riches

of the world and it's accolades.

/s

Severely limiting the bat population means one should invest in anti-mosquito spray and lotion manufacturing companies.

The concern is that bats are a natural predator of mosquitoes, so we would have to be careful about not interfering with the circle of life.  

That's true.  Of course in your example that could mean more venison to help alleviate hunger.