Imagine No Big Cities
By: Dennis Prager
The seed author has a great point. Cities are the source of all that is wrong and immoral in history and in America too. Bad and dangerous ideas originate in them. They are where most bad ideas come from, the source of violent crimes, riots, looting, incivility, and repression of dissent.
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
Source: AP Photo/Paul Sancya
Remember John Lennon's silly song, "Imagine"?
Well, here's my (much shorter) version.
Imagine if some of the biggest cities in America seceded from their states. Imagine Illinois without Chicago, Pennsylvania without Philadelphia, California without Los Angeles or San Francisco, New York state without New York City, or Texas without Houston, Dallas or San Antonio.
Those states would lose a major tax base and some of their best orchestras and other artistic institutions. But the gains in quality of life would completely offset any financial or artistic losses.
Big cities have been and continue to be centers of destructive ideas, and the people living in them are generally coarser and often just plain meaner. Of course, there are decent individuals in big cities and obnoxious people outside of big cities. But having a greater proportion of nice to obnoxious is more likely in smaller cities and other non-urban areas. Everyone reading this knows that one is more likely to be treated warmly when entering a store or dining in a restaurant in Cooperstown, New York, than in Brooklyn, New York; in Laramie, Wyoming, than in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.
As regards bad and destructive ideas, big cities almost hold a monopoly.
What bad modern idea did not originate in a big city? And what bad idea is more likely to be believed in Laramie than in Philadelphia? Between city-dwellers and residents of small towns and rural communities, which group is more likely to embrace the belief that men give birth? Which group is more likely to believe the lie that America was "founded" in 1619 in order to perpetuate slavery? Which population is more likely to strongly advocate that people marry before having children? Which group is more likely to produce pampered, spoiled children? Which group is more likely to cherish liberty?
The list of differences between the Laramies of America and the big cities of America is long indeed. A study by the University of Indiana Center on Philanthropy concluded, "Rural donors donated a statistically significant higher percentage of their income to charity than urban donors did."
It is not surprising that so many of Israel's great prophets were shepherds, the most rural of folk. Moses, the man who brought the world the Ten Commandments, the most influential moral code in history, was a shepherd. Rutgers University professor Leonardo Vazquez wrote that the American founder, Thomas Jefferson, "was of one mind about cities: he hated them ... "Though Jefferson partied in Paris and had a hand in shaping Washington, D.C., he thought cities were dens of corruption and iniquity that would spoil the young American republic."
Hitler learned his antisemitism in Vienna; Marx spent his adult life in London, writing his totalitarian tomes at the London Library; Pol Pot, the genocidal butcher of Cambodia, became a committed communist in Paris; Lenin engaged in his Marxist activities in St. Petersburg, Munich, London and Geneva; Stalin, born in Georgia, rose to prominence in Georgia's largest city, its capital, Tbilisi, and spent the rest of his life in St. Petersburg and Moscow.
The idea that the city is a source of evil is ancient. The first city ever built is attributed to Cain, the first murderer in the Bible (Genesis 4:17). The Book of Genesis contains the famous story of the Tower of Babel, a tower built to reach as high as the heavens in order, Genesis tells us, "to make the builders famous." What is less well known is that every time the Bible mentions the Tower, it mentions "the city" built alongside it: "And they said, 'Come let us build a city and a tower with its top in the sky.'" (Genesis 11:4).
The biblical scholar Patrick D. Miller, Professor Emeritus of Old Testament Theology at Princeton Theological Seminary, wrote that the story should more properly be captioned "The City of Babel," not "The Tower of Babel." Another scholar, professor Robert Alter of the University of California, Berkeley, wrote: "The polemic thrust of the story is against urbanism ... "
And the paradigmatic biblical places of evil are cities: Sodom and Gomorrah.
Why are cities dens of iniquity and incubators of destructive ideas?
One answer to the first question is anonymity: the bigger the city, the more anonymous the individual. People behave much better when they are known to their neighbors. Just think how much better people act when they wear an ID, as they do, for example, when attending a convention.
And just as we are more anonymous in a city, so is everyone else. People feel responsible to treat those they know better than they do anonymous strangers.
As for moronic ideas, rural people get meaning out of working with their hands and interacting with nature, which grounds them in reality and imposes pragmatism, while urban people are far more likely to get meaning, along with no consequences, from working with abstract ideas. Hence, the urban intellectual is so often a fool. Had Karl Marx been a farmer, the world might have been spared the unprecedented mass persecution and murder brought about by Marxist ideas. But Marx was the classic urban intellectual, never doing a day's worth of labor while writing about the proletariat.
It makes perfect sense, then, that our states would be far better without their biggest cities. I didn't say it was practical. But it's worth imagining. The states separating from its biggest cities 1 million plus statistical metro areas would all become better off. Big cities in each state that has them should be separate entities of their own unable to rule over or control any surrounding rural areas.
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They're not, that's just what dumb shit poorly educated rural folk tell themselves to make them feel better about not pursuing higher education and high paying jobs in urban areas.
Try telling that to Ahmaud Arbery.
Well there's a whole load of generalized horse shit. Please do present evidence supporting this spurious claim.
And the poorly educated 8th grade graduate 'rural' folk is really the intellectual. Yeah, sure, and it was a bunch of drop out dipshit religious conservative back woods hicks who successfully landed men on the moon.
And if my aunt had a dick she would have been my uncle. Crying "Marx!" is a sure sign of a useless, pointless deficient perspectives and opinions that do nothing to further actual intelligent human development.
Without American cities the poorly educated dipshit rural Americans would have long been taken over by some other nation that had embraced education and industrialization. Rural Americans have relied on urban Americans to protect them, defend our shores, make major scientific advancements, develop innumerable technological discoveries that have built wealth, cured diseases and created the America that we know today, no matter how imperfect. Relying on rural America we'd still be trying to trade beaver pelts for imported goods. I'm not saying all rural people are useless, I'm just saying that the ones who choose to stay in the 18th century but still want to be 'relevant' are deluding themselves and are likely sharp as a sack of wet mice.
No one said to not have cities. The idea is to not let them rule over good people that live anywhere else. The states would be better off. The cities would be too. There are many colleges and universities in smaller population centers and rural areas.
In a democracy we make laws based on the will of the majority. If the majority of people live in cities and vote, then sometimes their laws get passed, it's how it should be. Yes, we have the constitution to protect the minorities from the tyranny of the majority, but as long as those city folk aren't making laws that specifically target rural folk then there shouldn't be any major issues. But that's not really the issue, it's that rural folk are desperate to proclaim themselves the majority, which some do by disenfranchising urban Americans and claiming that rural Americans are somehow more "American" or more deserving of constitutional protections. The rural folk often whine and complain about the city folk as if they're not worthy of the protections afforded them by the constitution and many proclaim their rural white Christian patriarchies superior to urban America. They are of course woefully deluded and often ignorant of what the US constitution actually stands for and says most likely because they choose to ridicule higher education, science and social contracts because they'd rather cling to their guns and bibles than accept urban Americans as "American".
That is one opinion, and it's contrary to all available facts.
Yes, there are, and they often focus on telling rural Americans that their rejection of truth, facts and science is somehow 'superior' because they have chosen to believe in unproven religious fiction than actual facts. They tickle poorly educated rural folks ears with what they want to hear because it plays into what the parents and grandparents of those rural folk have convinced themselves is true because it fits with their indoctrinated beliefs, not because it fits with scientific facts and reality. This is of course dangerous and counterproductive to a society that wants to progress, evolve and be a leader in the world we actually find ourselves in. But in their conservative fantasy world of course it's the only course of action they can take, sadly that only furthers their descent into irrelevance and ignorance, but I'm sure it makes them feel better about themselves which I guess is all that matters to those with little to no understanding of the universe around them, or at least a fantasy understanding they've convinced themselves of based on bronze age sheep herders who claim to have had "visions".
No one said to not have cities
Hmmm...
Obviously you missed this:
It makes perfect sense, then, that our states would be far better without their biggest cities.
And this:
And if my aunt had a dick she would have been my uncle.
Good one!
I've also heard several other of those "if" phrases.
One of my favourites is:
If my grandmother had a wheel and two handles, she'd be a wheelbarrow!
:
And if my aunt had a dick she would have been my uncle.
Good one!
I've also heard several other of those "if" phrases.
One of my favourites is:
If my grandmother had a wheel and two handles, she'd be a wheelbarrow!
Full Disclosure: Neither of my grandmothers (Peace Be Upon Them) is a wheelbarrow!
One died when I was very, very young so I really didn't get know her.
The other was a skilled seamstress-- worked with her hands and got much satisfaction from her work.. And incidentally-- she lived in a big city!
Well, you said it yourself-- that's totally moronic!
Let's get real here-- do you actually believe all those tall buildings have all their necessary maintenance done by robotics? Big cities have no human Electricians, no construction workers, no bricklayers, no stone masons, no police, no court officers, no sign makers, no garbage collectors, no dentists, no surgeons, no artists, no street-sweepers, no nurses, no bus drivers, no taxi drivers, no Parks Dept workers, no undertakers, no beauty shoppe workers. .etc etc...and that just the beginning! (.its all done by mechanical robots!)
Nope-- in big cities none of those who work with their hands are humans-- they are all mechanical robots! No people in cities ever work with their hands-- none!
/sarcasm
Never let it be said that Dennis Prager is not a useless piece of crap.
Imagine no cities in our states. Let the cites rule themselves as city states.
Without cities the people in the sticks would bore each other to death.
No one said without cities. It was said to separate states from certain large cities.
Dennis Prager is one of the biggest hypocrites out there. He was born in Brooklyn and now lives in LA. So this op-ed is nothing more than another attempt by him to make himself into a fake country boy, which is who listens to him.
He is a well respected conservative Jew and is a great writer subscribed to by many as well as being a Creators Syndicate contributor. Us exurban and rural readers do appreciate his wise works whether from Prager U. or Creators Syndicate or Town Hall.
Every year thousands of ambitious young people leave Hooterville and come to the big city of Chicago to try and make their way in the world of their chosen professions. The same thing happens of course in the nations other big cities.
Not much of a demand to go from Chicago or NY or LA to Hooterville unless you are in a 1960's tv hillbilly comedy.
Then why is he writing rubbish like this, when he is and has always been a city dweller? That is a choice he made and he could easily leave but doesn't.
His very brief list of people who were bad who came from cities couldn't compare to the very long one that did good who also came from cities. His logic is totally flawed.
Prager does not have logic. He is a grocery clerk for the autocracy.
With technology and covid it has been shown that people can work from home instead of commuting or walking to the office so a lot of people are moving to rural areas letting their kids have the party’s, the single family home with a yard, and better K-12 schools while being employed in the distant city.
This might be the worst thing Dennis Prager has ever written.
Everyone can have a bad day, though. This is a real low point for Dennis.
Imagine? Yeah, imagine no MAGAs.
Deal with a flyover heartland of the nation still full of us.
And are urban supposed "coastal elites" not American? Are we somehow less deserving of our votes because fly over America is pissed off about being left behind? Perhaps fly over America needs to grow the fuck up and join the rest of America and the world in dealing with real problems like global climate change, global trade, technological advancement, high skilled tech jobs, higher education, science and facts. That would be far better than just whining about the majority progressing without them and putting all their efforts into being a roadblock for the rest of America that is trying to deal with the problems of the 21st century and not the 18th century as many of rural Americans seem to concentrate on.
Deal with a flyover heartland of the nation still full of us.
Since when is California "flyover country"?
(Or, for that matter, since when is the mythical state of "Jefferson" flyover country?
That's true he lives in Northern Cali. (a frequent fly-over state when compared to say Colorado.)
I’m a little beside myself with amazement. Dennis Prager wrote this? I mean whether you tend to agree with Dennis or not on most issues, he does at least usually present an intelligent, thoughtful thesis. He is capable of speaking as an intelligent person, even if he’s dead wrong.
But this? This is some kind of unhinged fever dream of bigotry. City people bad; country people good. What the actual fuck? Is that supposed to be intelligent? Thoughtful? How much did he have to drink, I wonder, before he sat down to write this? Has he finally gone senile?
I don’t know. Is this a serious inquiry? Is there actual data for this?
OK, the following aren’t modern ideas, I grant you, but they’re pretty big ideas, all the same:
How about Lynching? Named for Charles Lynch, a Virginia plantation and slave owner. There’s a pretty shitty idea that came from the country.
How about sex with livestock? That doesn’t sound like a big city idea, either.
Does anybody think this is a useful discussion?
Oh for Pete’s sake. The human race was like 99% rural in those days. Anyway, even given that fact, it’s still only “many” of the prophets? So not “all.” Does this even support his thesis?
Is that a real argument? (Sorry I ask so many questions. I am just flabbergasted by this article!) First of all, Cain didn’t murder his brother in the city. No city was the source of his sin. This murder was conceived and carried out in the country. So according to Genesis, murder was invented in the country. Fucking murder. And then he lied about it. So lying was also invented in the country. And that wasn’t even the first sin. Adam and Eve betrayed God in the Garden - also not in a city.
It seems like maybe all our really deep, nasty sins were actually invented outside of cities.
What a dumb article by a man who should know better.
He sure triggered the urbanists with that article questioning their elitist status.
He didn’t trigger anyone over status. What he did was to engage in thoughtless bigotry. Imagine if someone wrote a similar article saying rural people - by virtue of just being rural - were ignorant, uneducated morons. Wouldn’t that be sick and twisted?
Articles targeting rural runes the great unwashed Americas Taliban deplorables bitter clingers etc happen on a regular basis
that comment makes no sense.
Elitist status???????????????????????????????
Correct.
XXjefferson is correct-- people living in cities are all Elites!
There are no poor people living in cities!
And this whole idea of people in cities being "on Welfare" is Fake News! (Seriously-- who ever heard of Elites being on Welfare?)/
No Welfare in Cities! That's typical "FAKE NEWS".
Because City People are all wealthy Elites! (Which means city people, as "Elites"...are all extremely wealthy-- after all, almost all city people are ...Republicans!)
And even worse yet-- none of them ever work with their hands...Oh-- the horror!
(/sarc)
I don't live in the city. I am not triggered. I just know stupidity and bigotry when I read it and this is pretty much it.
That’s true. I have a history of criticizing those seeds just like I am attacking this one.
I do believe there are more meth labs in the country than the city. Easier to escape detection
Tacos! you continue to amaze me, I'm finding I agree with you more these days.
(Give me more Piggies)
This country dweller finds this article to be a crock of unsupported shit.
Huh, another load of horse manure dumped onto NT.
As much as the msm articles from urban elites attacking the lifestyle and choices of the rural? A little counter fire too hot to handle?
Well, that's just dumb. Many of us "lefty liberals" live in the country. I like country living because I like open spaces and not being crowded. I get to enjoy a variety of wildlife and would plant a garden if I could keep the deer, rabbits, and raccoons from destroying it.
You really don't know what you're talking about. Not only that but you didn't even really read Sandy's comment
I do like living near a city to experience the orchestra and fine dining. But deep down, we all want the same thing.
Peace to you, also
We think nothing of taking the 2.5 hour drive to Sacramento or 3.5 hour drive to the Bay Area for the things talked about in the city from time to time. It’s nothing for us to get up early drive down for a ball game or pier 39 or the SF zoo see them and then drive back home by midnight same day. For the ball game, top off tge gas tank in Fairfield on the way down, Then on the way back eat dinner at a restaurant near the Solano mall in Fairfield, like the Texas Roadhouse and then cruise up the 505 and 5 back home. About $70 of premium unleaded plus the restaurant and A’s game tickets.
I guess I didn't know you as well as I thought!
I'm more than a bit surprised to hear that you want the same thing as Donald Trump. Or Majorie Taylor Greens.
But I'm really can't speak for you.
However, at this point in my life I know myself pretty well-- and I can assure you that I don't want the same things as "everybody". (Perhaps I am a rare outlier in that regard?)
Heck, even the small sample of humanity here on NT-- I do want some of the same things as some people here-- but not some other things as others.
(I still wonder why, after reading your comments, you want the same thing as, say, xxJefferson-- was I wrong in assuming you two have different some different opinions? Some different values? And if so-- there's nothing wrong with that!)
EMBRACE DIVERSITY!
EMBRACE DIVERSITY!
Yes-- those who don't want the same thing as everyone else!
Well, I am a bit of a non-conformist in that regard-- here's one of my all time favourite videos.
Yes-- its all about the few individuals who don't want the same thing as everyone else! Because-- they "Think Different"!
P.S: Lest someone accus me of posting something with the intent of promoting some particular brand(Apple) I should mention that both my cellphone and lap top are not made by Apple but rather by Samsung!
If we all did that-- you would keep getting an argument from me!
(Not that that's necessarily a bad thing...
)
We all want world peace and to take care of our families, don't we?
91,580 (2019) - Population of Redding, California
That's about 3 times the size of the town I live in. Me - the Lefty Liberal lives in the woods and a not so large town. Never did live in any town larger than 50,000
Come to think of it, I don't think I ever have either.
The biggest town I ever lived in was Indiana, PA where I went to college. I lived about 10 miles from Lubbock, TX when I was stationed there. We weren't really in the city, but our address was Lubbock (base housing).
I think even now we are at something like 45k.
A lot of that is also the Air Force.
Yeah...Keesler is a main training base. Mr Giggles went there for tech school
Like I said elsewhere from north of the Bay Area and Sacramento area counties to well north of the Oregon border this 1/3 or so of California has only two towns with over 60k population in that whole vast area. Redding and Chico. They are almost 70 miles apart and totally surrounded by small town and rural. Our county 3800 sq miles which is bigger than the size of the states of Delaware and Rhode Island combined is our 180k metro area. The surrounding 5 counties roughly the same size have populations of roughly 10k, 15k, 40k 45k, and 60k and the three largest cities in those combined five counties are Susanville 20k 100 miles East, Yreka 15k 90 miles north and Red Bluff 15k 30 miles south. This part of Ca. Is about as rural as it gets in America. You have to go to Sacramento or Vacaville to the south, Reno to the east and Medford to the north and the combined Eureka Arcata McKinleyville three cities area to get to comparable or larger populations. Thus our area would.be a perfect fit for a Greater Idaho.
You still live in an area more populated than the one I live in
California north of the Bay Area and Sacramento area counties to Oregon is bigger than the state of Arkansas with a smaller population than Arkansas.
So? What is Arkansas? "Flyover" country. I have more country in my pinky toe than you will ever have.
Ah yes... Idaho!
It's over twice the size of my entire county.
It is understood that Dennis Prager has moved to Mayberry and is now living with his mother, Thelma Lou. It is currently unknown if Barney Fife is his father. Opie confirmed this report with a well muted snicker.
I grew up in the country. Many of my neighbors weren't such good people. A lot of them were government free loaders who kept coming up with excuses of why they couldn't work. The neighbors across the road lived in a dilapidated house owned by another neighbor. They would party all week and then run a whore house during the weekend.
Then there was the trailer park up the road. Some nice...others not. So this whole seed is a bunch of bs horseshit written by a man who has never stepped foot in the forest (I would bet a dollar on that).
Dennis...go piss up a rope. And take your sycophants with you
Woof!Woof!Woof!Woof!Woof!Woof!Woof!Woof!Woof!Woof!
I finally got your comment. As I told Ender earlier, I'm not running on a full tank today
Anyone else notice that he used Laramie as an example then goes on to talk about shepherds...
I didn't make the connection, but thank you pointing that out.
YUGE dog whistle
Now that is amusing since many of the people living in the cities are professionals that are opting not to marry & not to have children.
Oh...my. So many unwed mothers in the rural areas.
Well, as long as Paw had to pawn his shotgun...
I don’t live on a farm and I don’t live in a big city. I live in the suburbs. So are me and mine just sort of fair-to-middlin people?
LMAO!!!
Imagine no hate-filled, low IQ demagogues like Dennis Prager intentionally stoking division on a daily basis.
Better yet, imagine no hate-filled, low IQ audience eagerly consuming garbage like this and providing a lucrative market for it.
Translation: Imagine if there were no heavily populated blue spots on election maps voting for the other party and possibly outweighing the lower populated red areas.
Living in a rural area, It's a refrain I've heard my entire life... "The fu**ing cities, where all the fu**ing ni**ers live."
Prager is just another sick, twisted piece of shit making a living spreading misinformation and lies about everything from covid to climate change to evolution.
Prager is exactly right regarding his comments. He’s saying that the states would be better off without their largest major city metro area(s) and if the cities ruled over only themselves.
That's fucking idiotic. They do only rule over themselves. No city government has authority outside of its own jurisdiction.
Sounds like the only thing you want is for them to be separate entities from their states so people coming from them can't run for state office and be part state governments.
They'd still vote in federal elections and send reps to Washington on a population basis, but what about senators? Each state only gets 2 senators regardless of population, so if large cities aren't part of their states, then what? Millions and millions of Americans get no senatorial representation at all?
More divisive, bigoted, anti-American, anti-republic bullshit on your part.
If you hate this country so much that all you can find to do with your time is spread bullshit like this around on the internet EVERY FUCKING DAY, then why don't you just leave? Go be an expat in some neo-fascist authoritarian state like Hungary or Belarus, or even Russia. You'd probably be much happier. Well, maybe. They have big cities over there, too.
Maybe try Antarctica? No big cities there.
But you'll never not have a largest major city metro area. Where ever you go.
I’m talking of ones in excess of 1 million urban core city population. Or a group of cities in close proximity combined exceeding that. The largest one smaller than that is ok.
There are currently only 10 cities in the U.S. with populations over a million people. There were 9 before the recent census.
Not really a huge number, but 3 of them are in California, so it's obvious why you glommed on to this crap.
But hold on, are you suggesting that they become actual city-states? As in entirely new states in the Union, and not that they exist in some kind of disenfranchised, non-state limbo? (which was my original impression)
As in having their own state capitals and their own state governments, state constitutions, U.S. representatives, U.S. senators, and National Guard forces? With none of their tax dollars going to roads or schools in their former states? Or to hospitals and ambulance services in their former states? Or to medicare, medicaid, welfare and unemployment benefits in their former states? Or to natural disasters like fires or floods?
You aren't under the impression that the money flow is currently the other way around, are you? Cities tend to be the economic centers with the huge tax bases, not the less populated areas. California has lots of agriculture, but it's only what...2 or 3 percent of the state's GDP? Most of the GDP is in the cities, especially the port cities.
And we all know how cities tend to vote, so 10 new city states would be a great way to add 20 Democrats to the U.S. Senate. If you also want to include groupings of smaller cities like you say, or smaller cities and their metro areas combined, then the number goes up dramatically.
Hell, if that's what you're talking about, then you might be onto something!
If it's a City-State, then each one would get their own reps in the House AND an additional two Senators. I think the City-States would still out number the rural congress persons.