I can't really fit into your categories, since on certain beliefs I am very liberal, on others very conservative, and it seems to me that "centrist" neutralizes both directions. Besides, I'm not an American.

However, being here is important for me to post lots of photos and photo-essays and enjoy those of others, post articles and have discussions about Classic Movies, and to poke fun at extremists on the site (although I'm not as good at that as Krishna).  Gordon Gecko said "Greed is good" and I say "Groups are good."

 to poke fun at extremists on the site (although I'm not as good at that as Krishna). 

. I often don't do that but when I do Im am good at it. ( We all have our strengths and weaknesses).

There are various systems of personality types.I find the MBTI useful:

Myers-Briggs Type Indicator (MBTI) is a personality test designed to assist a person in identifying some significant personal preferences. Katharine Cook Briggs and her daughter Isabel Briggs Myers developed the Indicator during World War II, and its criteria follow from Carl Jung's theories in his work Psychological Types.

The Indicator is frequently used in the areas of pedagogy, group dynamics, employee training, leadership training, marriage counseling, and personal development.

In that system, I am classified as an "ENTP- "THE DEBATER". I put a bit of information abou tthe ENTP type in a comment below,which alsop has a link to a good article about it). If you read the linked it, you should see how well its describes me.

Not sure I fit into any of of the categories for #1.

I believe in budget reductions primarily in Defense spending to bring the rise of the national debt below the rate of nominal gdp growth. I believe in laws being passed to open borders for immigration, yet believe that border adjustment taxes are necessary to reduce the imbalance of trade. So I am all over the place.

#2. People have beliefs and even believe their opinions are based in fact. I am all for having my beliefs challenged, but don't try to substitute a belief as some type of irrefutable fact. When it becomes clear that belief is the sole basis for the conversation and our beliefs differ... I prefer to step away from the conversation. As well as putting a time limit on conversations where we might agree. The latter gets boring faster than the former, imo. 

When it becomes clear that belief is the sole basis for the conversation and our beliefs differ... I prefer to step away from the conversation.

 Wise!

When it becomes clear that belief is the sole basis for the conversation and our beliefs differ... I prefer to step away from the conversation.

Well, of course, not everyone is alike,

In fact when what you just stated is true-- I am greatly attracted to participating!

I'm not saying I'm right (or wrong) but personally I find "echo chambers: to be boring. In a conversation where we all agree-- it becomes boring to me after I while. 

I prefer the intellectual stimulation that comes when people present beliefs different than mine, and explain why they feel thei belief system is valid.

Being in an echo chamber may be comforting at first, but over teh years I've come to realize that in discussion most of what I've learned of value comes from the presentation of beliefs that challenge my own.

I agree, If I wanted to talk to myself I don't need to get on a computer to do it. I come to chat rooms for the differences in ideas not to have mine reinforced. 

I come to chat rooms for the differences in ideas not to have mine reinforced. 

BTW, NT does have a Chat Room here! (But its currently out of order Ibelieve).

I don't want to mislead you, so I will give you my views. I hate dnc people, because they vote for right wing dnc candidates while claiming to be liberal. I can respect Republicans because they consciously choose to vote for the same type of candidates as dncers. I am a bleeding heart, pinko commie, sixties type liberal, who thinks we should go back to being legitimate members of the UN, respecting other countries rights to run themselves how they choose without fear of us invading them. I'm sick of us getting veterinarian quality  health care, for two to three times the cost industrial nations pay for human quality healthcare. I think it's time for the country to have a real second party. It's hard to get all the news of the day, searching all sources. It's nice to have other people share what they've found. I just need to learn to scroll past the stuff I find objectionable.I am consciously choosing to try and tone down my rhetoric here, and I believe I can count on you to call me out when I come up short

I just need to learn to scroll past the stuff I find objectionable.I am consciously choosing to try and tone down my rhetoric here, and I believe I can count on you to call me out when I come up short

I think that is a very fair way of dealing with things. I do it sometimes myself. But then again, if I think that an article's topic is a hot button issue, I will stay away from it, in case I have to moderate. BTW.. good time to say this. Moderators try to not moderate in articles that they have commented on. Sometimes, in a bad situation, they will step in even if they commented, but that doesn't happen often

 Moderators try to not moderate in articles that they have commented on. Sometimes, in a bad situation, they will step in even if they commented, but that doesn't happen often

Well, nobody's perfect! (Generally speaking, of course).

I appreciate your candor, Sam... I'm pretty much in agreement with your views... To be honest, I don't know much about DNCers...

 hate dnc people, because they vote for right wing dnc candidates while claiming to be liberal. I can respect Republicans because they consciously choose to vote for the same type of candidates as dncers.

If, as you claim, both Democrats and Republicans vote for the same type of candidate (right wing): when that candidate is elected to office, does it matt erif he was nominated by Democrats (who were laiming to be liberal) -- or if the people behind the same person were actually Republicans? 

(Although knowing the sort of hi-jinx Debbie Wasserman-Schultz perpetrated to steal the nomination from Bernie and give it to Hillary, perhaps you may have a valid point...???)

Not answering the questions, but I will give my opinion.

People come on forums to express themselves. Most people dont like to discuss politics and race and other touchy subjects with their "real life" offline friends.

I don't think compromise is necessary on forums, because people are giving their opinions, they are not solving problems.

Congress and city councils, and state legislatures should actively seek compromise because that is usually the only way to get things done.

Most people dont like to discuss politics and race and other touchy subjects with their "real life" offline friends.

I've noticed the same thing, I would imagine most people have. In the so-called "Real World" (offline ) most people are not obsessed with talking about controversial subjects. And, another point: most conversation that most people usually have is quite cordial. 

On the Internet, OTOH, for the most part, the reverse is true.

There's a question I've been pondering for a long, long time (& I've been using the Internet since just after  Al Gore invented it).  The question I have is:

Is there something about the Internet that attracts nasty, close-minded people?

~Or~

Doe the Internet attract all sorts of people, but that there's something about the Internet tends to make people who use it a lot quite nasty and close minded?

I think (at least for myself) the freedom of being able to say exactly like you feel is very freeing.

I can be the nicest person around or the nastiest depending on a variety of factors.      

And I like being able to express how I really feel about different subjects.

I also come on these chat rooms to learn others views and opinions to expand my own.

I hate the idea of "babysitters" and stifling of free speech in any way. And I say so !!! 

I think (at least for myself) the freedom of being able to say exactly like you feel is very freeing.

Well you can say anything you want. But there are consequences. 

For example, on a site such as NT, some things you could say might subject you to harsh criticism. Other things you say could get youu a 1 day suspension.And some thing you could say would ultuimately get you banned entirely from the site,

A survey was done about a 2 years ago on a specific word being used towards American Indian people. The survey showed that of the 80% that felt it was OK as a word for a football team, 71% of them said they would never said that word, face to face, to a person of American Indian decent. 

I have seen the arguments from many on the internet that it honors the Indian people even when told my a member of that race that it in no way honors us but is a racial slur. 

So, what it tells me is something that I've know for decades. It easy to show bigotry when you aren't face to face with that person. Thus the internet is their haven.

The "R-word" mess should be simple: ask the interested party! Ask a Black person how they would feel about a football team named "N-words"... and then run! Why do we treat Native Americans differently? 

IMHO, I think it is because some people don't care-- they're going to do what they want, and any call for a better way is taken as a personal responsibility that they don't want and have no intention of assuming.  I see that word a rudeness.  And there are people out there who are pleased with their rudeness.

And there are people out there who are pleased with their rudeness.

D'ya think?? Oh, I'm shocked, I tell you! Shocked!!

  And there are people out there who are pleased with their rudeness.

Agreed.

And in fact I believe that in some cases it goes even beyond merely being pleased with their rudeness. IMO there are some people who logon to the Internet with the sole motivation being to be rude-- to be obnoxiousand upset people-- they love doing that. (The classic "troll")

I have learned to never underestimate the lack of intelligence of the people who find violent sports entertaining.

An interesting article about the psychology of violence and sports fans...and probably our society in general.

wbur

George Orwell  notably observed , “Serious sport has nothing to do with fair play. It is bound up with hatred, jealousy, boastfulness, disregard of all rules, and sadistic pleasure in violence. In other words, it is war without shooting.”

If that sounds hyperbolic, we must acknowledge how easy it is for us to excuse the professional foul by our team. A bean ball by an opposing pitcher we call a headhunter. But when our guy throws it it's just a “brush-back,” a time-honored warning. We see our linebacker as a hard player; but last year, when he played for our rival, he was a thug. Did he have a criminal record then? Maybe, but now we imagine him redeemed.

Studies have shown that violence in the game, particularly if perceived as unfair,  increases the likelihood of violent acts  by spectators. Fan violence is further magnified by strong identification with the team, underlying racial and ethnic tensions, social alienation, alcohol consumption, and predominance of young men in the crowd. The 2011 savage beating of Bryan Stow, a Giants fan, by two Dodger fans is  a recent and egregious example .

1. I Am (Select One): 

 None of the answers fit.  On some issues I am one way, on others the opposite.  I prefer the flexibility to evaluate the specific circumstance for each issue and not be pigeon-holed.

2. How I Feel About People Whose Ideology Is Very Different Than My Own (Select All That Apply):

 I am not here to "win" any debates or anything else.  I am not here to promote any point of view.  I am here to read and learn from others, which is why I ask questions.  However, obviously some are here primarily to promote their own views above all others, as if their views are the only valid views.  They see questions about their views as criticisms, so instead of just providing answers that are sought, they launch counter-attacks when they were never attacked in the first place.  On this site I have asked questions and received more attacks in return than I have answers.

They see questions about their views as criticisms, so instead of just providing answers that are sought, they launch counter-attacks when they were never attacked in the first place.  On this site I have asked questions and received more attacks in return than I have answers.

I won't say that, that doesn't happen, but what I have found from trying to keep the peace here, is that often what we interpret as an attack, is really just the written word not coming across right. Without hearing verbal inflections, our words can come across as attacks. That is why I ask for clarification when I am not sure, or if I see that someone feels offended I offer up an apology. 

The goal for me, it to try and learn. After years of teaching, I enjoy being the student. 

The goal for me, it to try and learn.

Also my goal.

I will clarify that when comment ends with a question mark '?' the reader should acknowledge it as a QUESTION and not reinterpret it as a critical statement.  Use of the proper punctuation should negate the need for vocal inflection in most cases.  Unfortunately, with many questions asked on these sites it does not.  Do you know what I mean?

Sadly, yes I do. 

I read recently in a LinkedIn article  that emojis are being used more and more as written language because they can often express a person's feelings and meanings better than words.

Hah! I can't figure out what that means. It could mean anything from "That was a jazzy thing to say" to "You're just tooting your horn."

Yes,, all those and also that a Saxophone and a Clarinet to me means a Good dance music and a happy clan

I have to amend my comment and point out that sometimes I do employ the use of "rhetorical questions", but such use is usually very obvious to most people because of the context.  Most of the time my last question, ending with a question mark is a real question.  Understand?

 Without hearing verbal inflections, our words can come across as attacks

I think ghat, unfortunately, many people are unaware of that.

In fact, that's the main reason the smiley ( ) was widely used in the early days of the Internet. In the so called "real-world" (the offline world) in a conversation there are clues available to the exact meaning of what a person is saying-- clues in addition to the actual words. As you mentioned, in-person there is tone of voice, verbal inflections that gice clues as to the meaning of what was said.. And occasionally "body language" is also a factor. 

But both are not present when reading what someone has typed. ..

People realized that the meaning comments online could be misinterpreted. So when someone was typing online comments & realized might possibly be taken the wrong way, they typed a smiley to indicate that the intent was not negative.

Another less common use of smileys: when someone typed a joke, people often responded with a smiley--to indicate that they recognized it was a joke-- and/or to indicate they thought it was funny. (Now on NT , rather than using a smiley to indicate they think a joke is funny, they usually   use this emoticon:        

First I would like to say thanks Mal for writing a very needed article. Let me start by answering your questions. 

1. C/ Centrist / Independent

2. A&B   I am curious about the basis of their beliefs, and willing to interact respectfully with an open mind. And   I am open to seeking compromise.

Well, obviously I am here because I built this place, LOL. But the reason I did build it, is because of the very reasons you were disheartened. I wanted discussion and I couldn't get it. I wanted to have my mind stimulated and I wanted to do it in a place where people were on board with that idea. I actually enjoy when someone has a different POV. It gives me a chance to explore why. I have been doing this for slightly shorter than you, as you know, LOL.. since you got stuck mentoring me by Tyler, but as you know, I have always been a very vocal independent, which can be a lonely place, politically. But on the other hand, I have learned much from both sides of the aisle from discussions I have had, and have even changed my positions based on good arguments. 

The discussion matters. I know this. Daily we get over a 1000 visitors who are not members and read our discussions.Some come back again and again. They are here to learn. That is why I feel if you want to just fight, do it somewhere else. NT isn't about fighting but growth even if you don't change your opinion, you might be changing someone else's. 

Good article and questions Mal,

I've been called lib/progressive/socialist among other things. I enjoy many things about NT...Original article, photos, debates on current events, history etc. 

I'm hopeful that with the influx of new members we'll see more of the above.

I love your non political material, Kavika (not that I mind your political). But your original material is just wonderful. 

Thanks Perrie, check out ''The Grand Fishing Expedition''.

 I am what I am. But what I was died when I become what I am, Knowledge changes  me all the time, so what I will be can not ever be what I am nor what I was!

Hey I like that!

Copyrighted  live it alone!

err,,, well " Borrowed it from John 17:1-3   

"I am what I am."

I thought that those were the words of God when Moses was at the burning bush. 

You quote John 17:1-3 ? I don't see those words there.  I quote the 1956 movie starring Charleton Heston: The Ten Commandments.

Ooops!  Just checked it out - God said to Moses "I am that I am."  (At my age my memory must be fading.)

John 17:1-3New Living Translation (NLT)

The Prayer of Jesus

17 After saying all these things, Jesus looked up to heaven and said, “Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son so he can give glory back to you. ² For you have given him authority over everyone. He gives eternal life to each one you have given him. ³ And this is the way to have eternal life—to know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, the one you sent to earth.

they should know you,  Or take in Knowledge

Raven wing I believe said what they call their God, and it is similar to Jesus  original name Yahesua Which was to Praise his Father Greek Iexba The tetragrammaton YHWH the Anglicized Jehovah  which indeed mean as you stated,, as also shown by the Hale Lu JAH  ( Jah ) A shortening of Jehovah that so many here and elsewhere make Fun of,  If some one made fun of a Indian Nation Deity, I wonder how the forum would have reacted!

Some here NT consider Native Americans a throw away people not worth talking about, are worthy only of insult and condemnation, and are intolerant of the their religious beliefs. And/or, they can't accept the fact that not all Native Americans are Christians, which makes them unacceptable in their eyes.

However, most here on NT do respect Native Americans and their religious beliefs, even if they are much different than their own. And I feel sure they would not think making fun of those beliefs would be very acceptable, no more so than someone making fun of their own religious beliefs.

At least that is my own personal opinion.

Here Here and Hear Hear!!

 Yes ALL have a right to their beliefs and customs without ridicule.

While we are here would you please re state Gods Name. Many Thanks

Thank you, Eagle. I personally respect anyone's choice of religious beliefs, and those who don't believe in any deity. No matter what beliefs one may have, we are all connected.

The Cherokee name for the Creator is Ye Ho Waah. 

Wonderful, is it not amazing how close it is to the Original from Both Archaic Greek and Mesopotamia?

that is what at time make me wonder,, when some " Believe " in Nothing, but fail to see that that IS their " Believe "

 Go Figure, I asked and you  might have read it when some one disputed that, if that person was now " Vacuous " :-)

 I Mean believe is a fundamental to ALL existence, so how can anything be without it?

It is my thinking that just because someone does not believe in a deity does not mean that they are without feeling or are not a good person. It is what one feels in their heart that matters.  

Many Archaic Languages did not have a J hence the Y was used for a soft J Sound!

The Cherokee pronounce it Yeh Ho Wah, there is no J sound intended. 

:-) Yes, that is what I thought but I made that comments for others that might have gotten confused with what I said earlier to Buzz

Yeshua as Jesus

The Tetragrammaton is as close to the Cherokee pronunciation as one can get YHWH

The Cherokee were originally part of the great Iroquois Nation, and they speak the Iroquois language. The original name of the Cherokee is Ani-Yun-Wiya.   

which Translated means?

" Children/offspring of Yah" ?

It means "Principal People"

Ahh nice  many thanks,, interesting the meaning of the word " Principal "

It can also mean "The Real People". Ani-Yun-Wiya is the oldest name by which the Cherokee were known. Ani refers "Principal" or "Real", and  Yun-Wiya denotes "People", or "Indian". 

The Cherokee name for the Creator is Ye Ho Waah. 

Wow, that is really amazing! (If I understand this correctly, two ancient peoples who were so far separated by geography (& and therefore presumably had no contact) used such similar sounding words for the diety.

I wouldn't be surprised if some people have speculated that therefore the Cherokee had had contact with the ancient Hebrews.

I wouldn't be surprised if some people have speculated that therefore the Cherokee had had contact with the ancient Hebrews.  

The Mayans of the Yucatan area (Southern Mexico extending into Guatemala) had built Pyramids:

Some people believe that because the ancinet Egyptians also built pyramidal shaped structures, there must have been contact between the two civilizations. (Some people have even speculated that an extra-terrestrial space craft may have landed at both places long ago)

Krishna,

It has long been speculated, and I have read in an article on the origin of the Cherokee, that the Native Americans in the east did not come across the Bering Strait as did the Native Americans in the West. 

While it has been proved by DNA that all Native Americans have a common Mother and originated from Asia, there were many who migrated into the southern Asia and ancient Mediterranean areas. It has been said that some intermarried with the ancient Hebrews, and others who migrated into ancient Phoenicia.

I have also read that some Cherokee so called experts refute this theory. However, the physical difference between the Western American and Eastern American Indians is very obvious, such as stature, skin color, facial structure. So perhaps there is some truth to the theory. 

I personally tend to believe it is possible, as my own research over many years has given me reason to think so.

Maybe the ancient aliens contacted both civilizations........lol !

(Hell as far as I know, anything is possible.) 

At least that is my own personal opinion.

 That is the Fundamental Right!!!!

Some here NT consider Native Americans a throw away people not worth talking about, are worthy only of insult and condemnation, and are intolerant of the their religious beliefs.

I am so glad that it is only some, even as insensitive and hurtful as they can be, many times seemingly on purpose. Still I think there are many of us here who also have a great deal of respect and empathy for what has happened to Native Americans and the First People's of Canada over the past several centuries. I would like to think that we are in the majority and I believe that we are.

Randy, if you read my comment, I did say that most people here on NT do respect Native Americans and their different beliefs. No matter where anyone goes in life, in person or online, there are sure to be those who are intolerant of those they feel are unworthy, or merely different than themselves. 

I have lived with various levels of discrimination and ridicule because of my being Native American heritage, however, those who are intolerant are the minority compared to those who respect the differences in belief. And that is how it is here on NT. The majority of the Members here do respect Native Americans, and many are want to learn about them. And you are certainly among that majority. (smile)

Thank you for asking.  I am Conservative with strong feelings when it comes to social issues dealing with abused children, homeless, hungry and poor in our Country.   Not enough is being done!

I don't participate in any other online social groups.  This is like reading several newspapers and magazines every morning.  Really enjoy it!

 I am Conservative with strong feelings when it comes to social issues dealing with abused children, homeless, hungry and poor in our Country.   Not enough is being done!

I totally hear you on that.

#1. Like some others here, I do not fit in any of the positions in this category. I am a self-thinking person, I am not affiliated with any one political party or belief. I look for the person best qualified for the position up for a vote, or the best solution that would be the most beneficial for the purpose intended.

#2. I am here to share my own knowledge, thoughts, opinions, and learn from those of others. Even if I don't agree with them, I always find something to learn from them. I try to keep an open mind and open heart, as each one of us is a human being and we are not without faults. Yet, each one of us also has their own view of the world we all live in, and are in some way affected by what happens in this world. 

I believe in Harmony above all else, as Harmony is the core of understanding and tolerance.

I believe in Harmony above all else, as Harmony is the core of understanding and tolerance.

Very well said Raven. 

Ha!! Show me " Harmony " anywhere in Nature 

Just to maker things as " clear as Mud " see evolution, Fux Vs Niche

No one can "show" you Harmony in Nature if you do not wish to see it. And if you did, you would not have to ask anyone to "show" it to you.

nice response, care to hear me explain?

Always (smile)

Thank You and what a wonderful Smile :

 First  many will hear Birds Sing, and call that Harmony, but in reality it is Birds " Talking " and vying to out do each other for " Matrimonial gain " for a better word.

Hear the Frog in a Pond, and find that relaxing and it might well be, but behind that is a " War of Supremacy " and control.

 Hear the Rustling of the Leaves as the wind pushes between them and murmurs like the waves of the Sea, and like the Sea " It is tossing and Turning " in a Battle for survival

 Just a short Eagle Rant about Reality Vs Humanization  of " Nature "  Thank You  

Thank you Eagle for your interesting and enlightening explanation. I truly appreciate your view of reality, and in many ways you are correct.  Yet, life itself in all things is a never ending battle of survival in all things. And there is an order in Mother Nature that must be followed in order to maintain balance for the benefit of the world as a whole.

I am Native American, I follow the beliefs and culture of my Cherokee ancestors, so my beliefs and view of Nature may differ from yours. The battle in Nature to survive in all things is to ensure that only the fittest will survive to carry on the circle of life. And in doing so, it provides for the Harmony necessary for Mother Earth to sustain all living things that dwell upon the earth. When that Harmony is broken, all living things will suffer. 

Harmony in the human world is a necessary thing for humans to learn from each other and accept their differences and maintain the circle of life and balance with Mother Earth.

I can understand your rant, and appreciate our point of view. I have indeed learned something again today. (smile)

Thank You for that Harmony in a worlds natural cacophony, it is nice to know what both states are and how " Natural " they are, I am sure in your tribe, some elders would have had a chat with me in times past in Yahoo Beyond Planet Earth 1 . My Love and Regards to all!

You are most welcome, Eagle. I enjoyed our conversation, and I am sure that the Elders in my Tribe would have truly enjoyed conversing with you as well. There are always more than one side to any conversation, that is how we learn from each other, and live in Harmony. 

nv-wa-do-hi-ya-dv (Peace) 

Thank you, The Fight of the Raven and the Eagle explains that all

"Ha!! Show me " Harmony " anywhere in Nature"

I agree, while common courtesy and decency are traits to aspire to and practice, living in harmony is not really living life to its fullest. A well rounded person is adaptable to and is not afraid of controversy. Both are a part of reality !

steve, I understand your thoughts. However, I feel there are many ways to achieve Harmony, even in controversy. It really depends on how willing one is to find something to be learned and/or gained Spiritually from that controversy. There are some who deal with controversy in their own life by creating controversy with/for others.  

Like many others I have faced a good deal of controversy in my life. a good of it simply because of who I am, a Native American. Yet, I have not let controversy influence what I think, how I feel, or form who I am. 

The reality is that we do not live in a perfect world, so there will always be faced with controversy in some way in our life. I do not seek controversy, but, when it finds me, I do not run from it. I will do my best to find Harmony from it by keeping an open mind and heart. We are all human beings, thus, none of us are without fault.

I feel that it is how we deal with our own faults and those of others that will affect the Harmony in our life. 

Just my own thoughts.

A very thoughtful comment, Raven Wing! I very much agree with your approach!

A very thoughtful comment, Raven Wing! I very much agree with your approach!

A very thoughtful comment, Raven Wing! I very much agree with your approach!

Hello. I am a progressive-pragmatic Liberal-Christian in all things. Much in the vein of "No-Drama" President Obama:

1. B

2. B

I come here primarily to read and discuss current news. I also find the other content very entertaining, photos, stories culture in general. I really like the people I've gotten to know whether we see eye to eye or not.

Usually try to pass by the hyperbolic articles but sometimes have to comment on their absurdity.

Nice article Mal !

1a I'm a Socialist (collective ownership of means of production and distribution). "Collective" may be government at any level from township to national, or non-governmental such as co-operatives. Small "d" democrat in all things, until someone finds something better. 

2a I would like to understand why others believe as they do. "What" they believe is easy. "Why" is hard, because people often don't really know why they believe as they do. Their beliefs are gut feelings, with a thin veneer of rationality. It's hard to get people to dig any deeper than that. 

I'd like to remind everyone that there's a lot of fascinating stuff out there, that has nothing to do with politics. Science and history and art and... economics... Well, yes... that last one interests me and maybe two others... but hey! 

NT is a great place to share stuff we think is cool. 

How could you leave "Books" and literature off your list? LOL

U-m-m-m-m.... 

maybe two others... but hey

Let me guess,,, err sex and procreation ?  

"I would like to understand why others believe as they do."

My feelings as well... and hopefully to help others understand why I believe as I do... In that way, mitigating, if only in a small way, conflict...

What are our motives? That's the interesting topic... but very, very hard to get to!

I am a moderate, if a bit left of center.  To our more conservative members, I'm sure that I'm the devil incarnate but my politics have been derived from the view of my grandparents, my parents, and my own personal experiences.

I think our purpose here is discuss different viewpoints, not to score points.  I've grown quite a bit in my opinions, and have learned to be better at disagreeing without insulting.  When the discourse becomes too nasty, I usually leave.  Every day I'm here, I learn something, and that's a good feeling!

I'm just here to bug Perrie....

Tell me about it... Hey Randy, what am I today? A left leaning conservative or a right leaning liberal?

I've decided that I am a unicorn.... but only on Thursdays. 

The LAG is getting worse worser and worserer!!!!

Hey Randy, what am I today? A left leaning conservative or a right leaning liberal?

Why a very slightly left of center, centrist Republican, of course. 

Let's see:

1: I am a centrist. I prefer to make decision based on what seems correct and reasonable rather than what seems right or left.

2: Ultimately depends on the topic. I enjoy banter and will certainly accept common sense or completely honest ideas that previously seemed counter to my own and might even be swayed based on that. However, if you can't craft a solid reason for me to agree with you, then I see no reason to and certainly enjoy debate enough to keep it going for a very long time.

As to our actual purpose, that speak to the individual and is clearly subjective. Ultimately, everybody here wants to discuss topics that are of interest to them with others who find those topics interesting, and to inform or educate. Does this often take a turn for the worst? Yes. That is why those of us on the moderating team are here. To try to keep the personalization of these discussions and the attacks that ensue, from getting out of hand. Will it always happen? Yes. When people feel strongly about something, they are more prone to vigorous defense of that ideal and often get their feelings hurt, especially when faced with sarcasm or baiting, which is obviously a reality of actual debate despite protestations to the opposite, so you can imagine how frequently this happens in normal discussions.

What I always recommend is that, if you aren't enjoying a particular topic or discussion, utilize your ability to abstain. There are certainly plenty of innocuous uses for this site, from the photography group to the music group, and so on. Ultimately, it is up to you to find your purpose or niche here. If you can't, or you don't find enjoyment in it, then it may not be for you (and really, this applies to all online venues for discussion).

 So, really, I'm just here to argue about religion, hang out with friends, read some interesting articles, and occasionally try to be a good moderator.

So, really, I'm just here to argue about religion, hang out with friends, read some interesting articles, and occasionally try to be a good moderator. 

I can get onboard with that!

My political leaning depends on the issue.  I used to enjoy hearing opposing opinions but it didn't work out so well.  It doesn't work if only one side is willing to hear the other side.  I used to enjoy writing original pieces but I don't do that anymore either.  I guess my experience here has changed me.  I'm less congenial then when I first joined.  Maybe with all the new members I'll become inspired again.  I originally joined to get a different perspective, to write and to make virtual friends who also enjoyed good discussions.  Now I'm just trying to survive.  :0)  

"It doesn't work if only one side is willing to hear the other side."

Isn't THAT the truth!!!

To me, it all comes back to my purpose and the purposes of others... If one or more participants have "winning" or "defeating" or "disrupting" as their purposer... that doesn't do much for me. If, on the other hand, there is genuine curiosity for differing ideas, and a genuine effort to empathize... difficult as it may be, at least the effort makes everything "work" so much better.

(cont'd from previous comment)

ENTP PERSONALITY (“THE DEBATER”)  

The ENTP personality type is the ultimate devil’s advocate . . .  _____________________

thriving on the process of shredding arguments and beliefs and letting the ribbons drift in the wind for all to see. Unlike their more determined Judging (J) counterparts, ENTPs don’t do this because they are trying to achieve some deeper purpose or strategic goal, but for the simple reason that it’s fun. No one loves the process of mental sparring more than ENTPs, as it gives them a chance to exercise their effortlessly quick wit, broad accumulated knowledge base, and capacity for connecting disparate ideas to prove their points.

An odd juxtaposition arises with ENTPs, as they are uncompromisingly honest, but will argue tirelessly for something they don’t actually believe in, stepping into another’s shoes to argue a truth from another perspective.

ENTPs, like all Analyst personality types, are on a constant quest for knowledge, and what better way to gain it than to attack and defend an idea, from every angle, from every side?

You can read more about the ENTP type HERE- - or watch the Video, below:

So sorry.  I thought this was a serious disussion for answers to serious questions.  Looks like it's turned into something more like fun and games than anything else.  No offense, but with so many non-pertinent comments it makes it very difficult to determine how people really feel with regard to the original questions posed.

 1. I Am (Select One): 

a)    Very Progressive (Liberal)

b)    A little left of center

c)    Centrist / Independent

d)    A little right of center

e)    Very Conservative

2. How I Feel About People Whose Ideology Is Very Different Than My Own (Select All That Apply):

a)    I am curious about the basis of their beliefs, and willing to interact respectfully with an open mind.

b)    I am open to seeking compromise.

c)    I would never compromise with “the other side.”

d)    I find “the other side” completely incomprehensible.

e)    I see “the other side” as fundamentally evil, and I am here to fight them tooth and nail.

f)     I’m here to prove I can “win” the debate.

I am a progressive liberal Socialist, which comes from being raised by Teamsters who believed the truth of Unions, that they are not just to gain more wages and benefits, but rather are also a true brotherhood. A Socialist brotherhood. I believe that, since we pay taxes, our government should provide cradle to grave services for all of our citizens. We are not just paying for that for ourselves, but also for those who can not provide for themselves and their families. That includes free healthcare (and yes I now that it's not actually free to those paying taxes for it) for everyone.

As for people who disagree with me, I am willing to listen to them, but to never bend from my core positions.

Hi Randy,

I think you and I are more or less on the same ideological page. I am still trying to figure out whether I am truly a "Socialist", but the descriptions by you and Bob Nelson tell me I should just embrace that label.

I think there is a place for capitalism too... I suppose [ Mal's ears droop... ] But we humans have seem to have unequivocally proven that most of us prioritize personal gain well above "brotherhood." Completely unrestrained Capitalism, sometimes called a "free market", leaves the market free to be abusive. The ideology I have the biggest difficulty understanding (but I'm trying!!!) is the Ayn Rand Libertarian "everybody for themselves" approach.

There are many more definitions for "socialism" than there are socialists... with all our conservative friends so eager to supply theirs. 

I like the definition I gave because it's simple and open. It is a very standard definition for socialism. It is strictly economic, and can be paired with just about any political system. (For example, "socialism + authoritarianism = communism" or "socialism + democracy = social democracy".) 

There's no need to imagine a monolithic socialism. It can co-exist with capitalism, in the form of co-op companies and community-owned utilities. 

Also... 

When we think about "economic systems" we must separate ownership of means of production and distribution (which characterizes socialism and capitalism) from methods of attribution of resources, such as "supply and demand" or "central planning". These notions have been mixed and matched every which way, in the past. 

For example, fascism combined capitalism with central planning. 

These are never 100%. China has a mix of supply-and-demand and central planning. 

"Looks like it's turned into something more like fun and games than anything else.  No offense, but with so many non-pertinent comments it makes it very difficult to determine how people really feel with regard to the original questions posed."

I hear ya, Squirrel! While I am not particularly interested in the "fun and games" stuff... I don't find it difficult to skim over that stuff... I am still interested in your sincere and candid thoughts. :o)

b)      I am open to seeking compromise.

In a discussion, and my goal is seeking truth-- Compromisemnot only deosn't help-- it preventsthe truth from coming out.

If I know the truth is that the Earth is round and am ariuing with some one who says its flat-- by listening to his differing POV I may learn something. (Since I believe its round-- his faulty arguments giving the reason why its flat may, in fact, further my belief that its round!Plus-- I may learn somethingn about his personality type and how he holds his belief systems...)

But-- should we compromise?

1. My Truth: (Actually its 3 dimension-- so it a sphere (technically an "oblate spheroid" but that off topic here)."

2, He argues its flat (i.e. a cube):

3. So would we actually get closer to truth if we comprise? If we would agree to compromise, it would be something in between a Sphere and a Cube-- probably something likethis:

#3 is a good compromise betweennhis opinion (a Vube) and mbne (a Sphere). So,if we compromise, we get #3. Is it (the compromise)  that the true shape of the Earth?

But I'm interested in the actual facts-- the truth. And the truth is,the Earth is a Sphere-- #3, the compromise, does not represent the facts-- therefor, the compromise not true-- AKA false!

Both #2 and #3 are real crystal forms...  Plus, for mapping purposes, one has to warp the edges of things because we're projecting a round surface onto a flat map.  I am still ding donging around about that.  For the most part, the land forms are shaped very well-- usually, they stretch the sea.  Although Greenland is usually much smaller than what is seen on flat maps.

Ummmm.... Dowser...??

I think you may be missing the point... 

    ... on purpose, maybe??

I'm sorry!  Yeah, I was thinking that, while the compromise isn't real, sometimes you have to do so, in order to complete your goal.  

Your logic is... crystalline... 

Compromise on line? I can take it or leave it.  I don't think it is necessary, or proves a thing, but if it sometimes avoids flame battles, it's fine.

People talking on a message board or chat don't solve anything, therefore there is no necessity to compromise. The discussions will become less lively and less entertaining the more people compromise. But if they insist on it, what can one do but accept it or find somewhere else to comment?

I have long thought there is way too much navel gazing on sites like this, and this one more than most. These articles get so repetitive.

I like a forum where this is some flow and movement.

"Compromise on line? I can take it or leave it."

I like to think the way I communicate with others on line, carries over into my behaviors and thinking off line.

I think "on line" anonymity sometimes enables us to live out our darker alter egos... and can shape who we are off line... sometimes in a less than good way.

"I'm interested in the actual facts-- the truth."

I too am interested in the truth... I would rather know and embrace the truth even if it reveals something I wish was not true. Prioritizing comfortable beliefs above "uncomfortable truths" causes a lot of problems these days... Especially, with the torrent of alternative "facts" so readily available on the internet.

That said... personal preference is a separate issue... I might say, "I prefer a society where everyone prospers, and I'm okay with the most prosperous giving up a little of their prosperity to help those who are less prosperous." Others may say, "I prefer a society where everyone enjoys whatever prosperity they can bring to themselves without taking anything from others." Both statements, while expressing very different ideas, can be true. And I believe that by learning about one another's differing ideas on such things, and by seeking "compromise" we can move toward a better world without "compromising truth."

Have any of these 152 responses surprised anyone?

How?

Yes I was pleasantly surprised to find just how much I agree with No Fear and share similar opinions. I was beginning to feel like the collective was restricting our free speech to the point we could no longer express it without being wrongly silenced through something they now call skirting the COC. 

Yes I was pleasantly surprised to find just how much I agree with No Fear and share similar opinions.

No Fear has been here a long time. He just keeps changing his name while trying to keep his identity a guessing game.

"He just keeps changing his name..."

I, on the other hand, am and always will be Mal...

[ Mal wanders off... dragging his travois and magic saddlebag... ]

"Have any of these 152 responses surprised anyone?"

Well... me... not least because there are 152 of them...

The content is more or less what I anticipated... but I am heartened by the sincere, candid, to the point, and on topic responses...

When you know your intention, you are in a position to choose the consequences that you will create for yourself. When you choose an intention that creates consequences for which you are willing to be responsible, that is a responsible choice.

Gary Zukav

Good to see you again, Mal.

You as well, AMac!!!

Dear Friend MalamuteMan: Welcome back.

We missed your wisdom and humanity terribly.

Super article.

Delighted so many were adult, and made positive constructive and well thought out responses to your inquiries.

Here is my take.

I am proudly a progressive liberal.

I accept not all will see things as do I. 

That is their right.

Diversity of opinion is a good thing.

No one or group has any monopoly on truth or virtue.

As a proudly Orthodox Jewish Rabbi and Chaplain I stand for something. 

There fore I never commit the son of evangelism.

Not theologically, politically or in any other form.

I respect the rights of all to see things through their own eyes.

To be moved by their own minds and however the spirit directs them.

Phrases like "consenting adults", and your rights end where the rights of others being" loom large in my view of how to relate to each other.    

I don't come here to create rancor, or to divide.

I leave that to others better equipped and needing of it.

I write original articles to address the universal pastoral care needs we all have, who ever we are.

I moderate my own article, to the extent this site allows to create a safe space for all to respect and be respected.

To learn from and teach to.

To help and be helped.

To find peace and fellowship. Not in spite of our differences.

Rather because of them.

That isn't for everyone, although all are welcome, provided they follow red box rules and the Four B's.

Peace and Abundant Blessings My Dear Good Friend.

Enoch.    

Very, Very well stated, dear Friend Enoch. You have been and are my cherished Friend, and my Spiritual Mentor in many things in life itself. Our many conversations have here on and off NT, and our writing partnership has been such an inspiration and enlightening experience. As I continue to learn from you I do all I can to pass along the lessons that I learn.

You are a shining star on a cloudysky that helps to guide me. (smile)

Dear Friend Raven Wing: Right back at you, my good dear and cherished freind.

Smiles always.

Enoch.

Dear Friend Raven Wing: Right back at you, my good dear and cherished freind.

Smiles always.

Enoch.

"I respect the rights of all to see things through their own eyes.

To be moved by their own minds and however the spirit directs them."

Me too...

"To find peace and fellowship. Not in spite of our differences.

Rather because of them."

That is such a great perspective!!!

Good to see you again, Enoch!

[ Mal wags... ]

1. I am (select one):

e)    Very Conservative

But with Libertarian leanings.  I prefer to increase freedom, however, I view life as sacred and starting at conception.  I want abortion outlawed and adoption encouraged.

2. How I feel about people whose ideology is very different than my own (select all that apply):

a)    I am curious about the basis of their beliefs, and willing to interact respectfully with an open mind.

b)    I am open to seeking compromise.

I have always approached debates with this philosophy.  However, there are some things that I am hard to budge from (ie Climate Change/AGW Theory/Global Warming being junk science being one).  The reason why I think Climate Change is junk science is twofold: 1) the data and results of experiments resulting in the theory are not in the 95th Percentile or better in terms of error, precision, and accuracy and 2) none of the proxy measurements have been repeatable so far.  I do not trust peer-reviewed articles simply because it is not about the data, it is about the opinions of the peers regarding the data.  Get several different scientists working on different repeatable experiments and getting the same results, then I will consider it being a possibility.

Hi Tom,

I appreciate your candid and straightforward answers very much. While I don't share most of your ideological views, I look forward to learning more about you and the basis of your ideas.

Cheers,
Mal

BTW- A cute pooch you have there... :o}

It was a cousin's dog back in the late 2000s at a family reunion.  Forget the exact year, though.

To all who have responded to this article, Thank You! I appreciate your participation, most especially the sincere and straightforward replies! Please forgive me if I failed to respond to some of your comments... there were so many!

Now... I am trying to think of ways I can contribute to this site that promote the spirit and experience I would like to have... So to start I offer this song...

Dear Mal, 

Thank you for posting this great article. It has been very interesting and insightful to read the thoughts and ideals of those who responded. I truly enjoyed the article. (smile)