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California Burning: How the Greens Turned the Golden State Brown – American Greatness

  

Category:  Op/Ed

Via:  mbfc-censorship  •  6 years ago  •  79 comments

California Burning: How the Greens Turned the Golden State Brown – American Greatness
Opinions also vary as to whether or not environmentalists stood in the way of these prevention measures. In a blistering critique published earlier this week on the California-focused Flash Report, investigative journalist Katy Grimes cataloged the negligence resulting from environmentalist overreach. “For decades,” Grimes notes, “traditional forest management was scientific and successful—that is until ideological, preservationist zealots wormed their way into government and began the...

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T



I n October 2016, in a coordinated act of terrorism that received fleeting attention from the press, environmentalist activists broke into remote flow stations and turned off the valves on pipelines carrying crude oil from Canada into the United States. Working simultaneously in Washington, Montana, Minnesota, and North Dakota, the eco-terrorists disrupted pipelines that together transport 2.8 million barrels of oil per day, approximately 15 percent of U.S. consumption. The pretext for this action was to protest the alleged “catastrophe” of global warming.

These are the foot soldiers of environmental extremism. These are the minions whose militancy receives nods and winks from opportunistic politicians and “green” investors who make climate alarmism the currency of their political and commercial success.

More recently, and far more tragic, are the latest round of California wildfires that have consumed nearly a quarter million acres, killed at least 87 people, and caused damages estimated in excess of $10 billion .

Opinions vary regarding how much of this disaster could have been avoided, but nobody disputes that more could have been done. Everyone agrees, for example, that overall, aggressive fire suppression has been a mistake. Most everyone agrees that good prevention measures include forest thinning (especially around power lines), selective logging, controlled burns, and power line upgrades . And everyone agrees that residents in fire prone areas need to create defensible space and fire-harden their homes.

Opinions also vary as to whether or not environmentalists stood in the way of these prevention measures. In a blistering critique published earlier this week on the California-focused Flash Report , investigative journalist Katy Grimes cataloged the negligence resulting from environmentalist overreach.

“For decades,” Grimes notes, “traditional forest management was scientific and successful—that is until ideological, preservationist zealots wormed their way into government and began the overhaul of sound federal forest management through abuse of the Endangered Species Act and the ‘re-wilding, no-use movement.’”

U.S. Representative Tom McClintock, whose Northern California district includes the Yosemite Valley and the Tahoe National Forest, told Grimes that the U.S. Forest Service 40 years ago departed from “well-established and time-tested forest management practices.”

“We replaced these sound management practices with what can only be described as a doctrine of benign neglect,” McClintock explained. “Ponderous, byzantine laws and regulations administered by a growing cadre of ideological zealots in our land management agencies promised to ‘save the environment.’ The advocates of this doctrine have dominated our law, our policies, our courts and our federal agencies ever since.”

Grimes goes on to outline the specific missteps at the federal level that led to America’s forests turning into tinderboxes, starting in the Clinton Administration and made worse, thanks to activist judges, by thwarting reforms attempted by the Bush Administration, and accelerating during the complicit Obama presidency.

All of this lends credence to Interior Secretary Ryan Zinke’s fresh allegations of forest mismanagement . But what really matters is what happens next.

Institutionalized Environmental Extremism
California’s 2018 wildfires have been unusually severe, but they were not historic firsts . This year’s unprecedented level of destruction and deaths are the result of home building in fire prone areas, and not because of wildfires of unprecedented scope. And while the four-year drought that ended in 2016 left a legacy of dead trees and brush, it was forest mismanagement that left those forests overly vulnerable to droughts in the first place.

Based on these facts, smart policy responses would be first to reform forest management regulations to expedite public and privately funded projects to reduce the severity of future wildfires, and second, to streamline the permit process to allow the quick reconstruction of new, fire-hardened homes.

But neither outcome is likely, and the reason should come as no surprise—we are asked to believe that it’s not observable failures in policy and leadership that caused all this destruction and death, it’s “man-made climate change.”

Governor Jerry Brown is a convenient boogeyman for climate realists, since his climate alarmism is as unrelenting as it is hyperbolic. But Brown is just one of the stars in an out-of-control environmental movement that is institutionalized in California’s legislature, courts, mass media, schools, and corporations.

Fighting climate change is the imperative, beyond debate, that justified the Golden State passing laws and regulations such as California Environmental Quality Act , the Global Warming Solutions Act of 2006 , the Sustainable Communities and Climate Protection Act of 2008 , and numerous others at the state and local level. They make it nearly impossible to build affordable homes, develop energy, or construct reservoirs, aqueducts, desalination plants, nuclear power plants, pipelines, freeways, or any other essential infrastructure that requires so much as a scratch in the ground.

Expect tepid progress on new preventive measures, in a state so mired in regulations and litigation that for every dollar spent paying heavy equipment operators and loggers to do real work, twice that much or more will go to pay consultants, attorneys, and public bureaucrats. Expect “climate change” to be used as a pretext for more “ smart growth ,” which translates into “ stack and pack ,” whereby people will be herded out of rural areas through punishing financial disincentives and forced into densely populated urban areas, where they can join the scores of thousands of refugees that California is welcoming from all over the world.

Ruling Class Hypocrisy
Never forget, according to the conventional wisdom as prescribed by California’s elites, if you don’t like it, you are a climate change “denier,” a “xenophobe,” and a “racist.”

California’s elites enjoy their gated communities, while the migrants who cut their grass and clean their floors go home to subsidized accessory dwelling units in the backyards of the so-called middle class whose taxes pay for it all. They are hypocrites.

But it is these elites who are the real deniers.

They pretend that natural disasters are “man-made,” so they can drive up the cost of living and reap the profits when the companies they invest in sell fewer products and services for more money in a rationed, anti-competitive environment.

They pretend this is sustainable; that wind farms and solar batteries can supply adequate power to teeming masses crammed into power-sipping, “smart growth” high rises. But they’re tragically wrong.

Here the militant environmentalists offer a reality check. Cutting through their predictable, authoritarian, psychotically intolerant rants that incorporate every leftist shibboleth imaginable, the “Deep Green Resistance” website offers a remarkably lucid and fact-based debunking of “ green technology and renewable energy .” Their solution, is to “create a life-centered resistance movement that will dismantle industrial civilization by any means necessary .”

These deep green militants want to “destroy industrial civilization.” At their core, they are misanthropic nihilists—but at least they’re honest. By contrast, California’s stylish elites are driving humanity in slow motion towards this same dire future, cloaked in denial, veiled coercion, and utopian fantasies.

This is the issue that underlies the California wildfires, what causes them and what to do about them. What is a “sustainable” civilization? One that embraces human settlements, has faith in human ingenuity, and aspires to make all humans prosperous enough to care about the environment, everywhere? Or one that demands Draconian limits on human settlement, with no expectation that innovation can provide solutions we can’t currently imagine, and condemns humans to police-state rationing of everything we produce and consume?

That is the stark choice that underlies the current consensus of California’s elites, backed up by dangerous and growing cadres of fanatical militants.


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XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
1  seeder  XXJefferson51    6 years ago

“Opinions vary regarding how much of this disaster could have been avoided, but nobody disputes that more could have been done. Everyone agrees, for example, that overall, aggressive fire suppressionhas been a mistake. Most everyone agrees that good prevention measures include forest thinning (especially around power lines), selective logging, controlled burns, and power line upgrades. And everyone agrees that residents in fire prone areas need to create defensible space and fire-harden their homes.

Opinions also vary as to whether or not environmentalists stood in the way of these prevention measures. In a blistering critique published earlier this week on the California-focused Flash Report, investigative journalist Katy Grimes cataloged the negligence resulting from environmentalist overreach.

“For decades,” Grimes notes, “traditional forest management was scientific and successful—that is until ideological, preservationist zealots wormed their way into government and began the overhaul of sound federal forest management through abuse of the Endangered Species Act and the ‘re-wilding, no-use movement.’”

U.S. Representative Tom McClintock, whose Northern California district includes the Yosemite Valley and the Tahoe National Forest, told Grimes that the U.S. Forest Service 40 years ago departed from “well-established and time-tested forest management practices.”

“We replaced these sound management practices with what can only be described as a doctrine of benign neglect,” McClintock explained. “Ponderous, byzantine laws and regulations administered by a growing cadre of ideological zealots in our land management agencies promised to ‘save the environment.’ The advocates of this doctrine have dominated our law, our policies, our courts and our federal agencies ever since.”

Grimes goes on to outline the specific missteps at the federal level that led to America’s forests turning into tinderboxes, starting in the Clinton Administration and made worse, thanks to activist judges, by thwarting reforms attempted by the Bush Administration, and accelerating during the complicit Obama presidency.

All of this lends credence to Interior Secretary Ryan Zinke’s fresh allegations of forest mismanagement. But what really matters is what happens next.”

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.1  Vic Eldred  replied to  XXJefferson51 @1    6 years ago

The President tried to tell them. Gov "Moonbeam" appeared to have gotten it on his way out the door. The x-husband of Kimberly Guilfoyle now takes over. Hopefully he gets it, as we all keep paying.

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
1.1.1  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1    6 years ago

He’s giving lip service.  We shall see.  

 
 
 
cjcold
Professor Quiet
2  cjcold    6 years ago

America's forests have turned into tinderboxes due to anthropogenic global warming.

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
2.1  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  cjcold @2    6 years ago

No they haven’t. That global warming is a hoax and climate change beyond solar and cyclical is pseudoscience fraud.  As a Jeffersonian living in the fire areas near these forests I completely agree with the Real Clear Politics article I seeded.  California’s coastal urban dwellers pass laws and initiatives regulating how we up here have to live with our forests and it’s our forests, ranches, towns, and cities that burn down as a result of their and environmental true believers actions.  

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
2.1.2  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to    6 years ago

Ironically it’s those who self profess to be the protectors who are causing it the most damage in many cases.  It is important to be good stewards over the earth and its resources.  

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Expert
2.1.4  MrFrost  replied to  XXJefferson51 @2.1    6 years ago
That global warming is a hoax

Yea? Then explain this. 

512

 
 
 
livefreeordie
Junior Silent
2.1.5  livefreeordie  replied to  XXJefferson51 @2.1.2    6 years ago

Being good stewards does not equate to government acting totalitarian as the radical left pushes for

 
 
 
livefreeordie
Junior Silent
2.1.6  livefreeordie  replied to  MrFrost @2.1.4    6 years ago

AGW is one of the greatest hoaxes ever perpetrated on mankind.  Sunspot cycles are infinitely more impactful on climate cycles than any supposed anthropogenic influence

World Entering New Cycle of Global Cooling

“With the Sun’s surface becoming progressively quiet (less sunspots) since 1998, the monthly sunspot patterns and weather at this time in history (2017) are most similar to those of 1797, a time preceding the Dalton Minimum global cooling temperatures of 1793-1823, which was a mini ice age. The historical science of global climate change reveals itself in relative cyclic macro patterns, rather than a linear, one time pattern, such as Gore’s proposed linear pattern of increasing global warming, secondary to Industrial Age influences.

The Miklankovitch (M.) theory (also known as De Vries, Suess, or Gleissberg Cycles) describes the cyclic variations of Earth’s orbital and rotational motion parameters in cycles of up to 120,000 years. However, the M. theory can’t help us understand the shorter climate cycles, like the ones lasting from 2,000 to 10,000 years. Nor does it consider the “cycles of little ice epochs” (ranging from 2,200 to 2,400 years in duration), or climate oscillation patterns of 206 years. The Bicentennial Cycles (with durations of 206 years) have normal global temperature changes of about 0.5 to 1 degree Celsius, such as the global warming cycle we have just passed through. Currently there’s much evidence that the 2,200- to 2,400-year cycles and the other relatively shorter climatic cycles are all caused primarily by sunspots and the sun’s and earth’s slight movements toward and away from each other. It is documented that these cycles existed thousands of years before the Industrial Age and are fundamentally independent of the Industrial Age. According to historical cyclic observation, it appears that Industrial Age manmade CO2, on which the “Gore” theory is based” has a negligible impact on both global warming and cooling cycles. On a psycho-spiritual level, the Gore theory is faulty not only because its predictions have not come true, but it’s deeply egocentric, and, thus, not in harmony with the cycles of God’s natural creation.

An increasing group of astrophysicists, geophysicists, and paleoclimatologists have studied the role of the sun in climate change. This includes the role of number of sunspots, as well as variations in distances from the earth over time. Sunspots, depending on whether increasing or decreasing correlate with periods of global warming and global cooling respectively. Since 1998, a relatively long-term downward trend in solar sunspot activity has already started, and it will inevitably cause a corresponding climate cooling similar to the Dalton Minimum of extreme global cooling temperatures that occurred around the mini ice age of 1815. The cooling may be as much as 0.7 to 0.8 degrees C. Some project, based on historical evidence of previous mini ice ages, that this drop may come on suddenly rather than over time. During the past 110,000 years there have been at least twenty abrupt climate changes. Historical records show us that abrupt climate change is not only possible… it is the normal state of affairs. The overall historical cyclic data strongly suggests that the beneficial growth producing cycle of the present global warming has ended and a new and destructive cold climate is beginning. Members of the Russian Academy of Sciences have stated openly in as early as 2007 that we are entering a new “Little Ice Age” (LIA). This ice age discussion and prediction is the main point and concern of this essay.

The well-documented scientific analysis of the outstanding intellect and scientist, John L. Casey, who worked in high levels at NASA, has documented in his book, Dark Winter (1), a useful overview, in convincing detail, of the cycle theory of global warming and cooling. John Casey has developed a descriptive theory on this that he calls Relational Cycle (RC). RC theory postulates climatic and geological manifestations on the earth are primarily the result of solar changes and sunspots. The RC theory, which has been about 90% accurate, contrary to the theory of manmade global warming (otherwise known as anthropogenic global warming or AGW), aka, climate change, based on human greenhouse gas emissions. Contrary to the RC model’s accuracy, every projection of the Gore AGW has been consistently disproven and inaccurate. The key is the RC (Relational Cycle) theory is based on historical data cycles, rather than linear manmade global warming computer models. Casey’s Relational Cycle postulates three basic points: 1) Global warming ended in 1998. 2) The sun hibernates about every 206 years. This solar hibernation is marked by a historic and cyclic reduction in the sun’s energy output and number of sunspots, resulting in a relatively long-term drop in human lifespan in the earth’s average temperature. 3) RC theory predicts a global cooling (mini ice age) climate change beginning around 2019-20, peaking in 2030 and moving toward warming again in 2053. It is this “mini ice age” cooling prediction that could be disastrous for the unprepared and is the main teaching point of this essay. Based on RC theory and the observations of a growing number of climate scientists around the world, it would appear that the most reliable source for climate change prediction is the number of sunspots varying in 206-year Bicentennial Cycles. The last solar minimum, marked by a low number of sunspots, occurred between 1793 and 1830. That solar minimum included 1816, otherwise known as the “year without a summer”. This was close to the time that Napoleon, without consulting his “local climatologist”, attempted to invade Russia during the coldest part of this cycle (the Dalton Minimum), around 1812-1816, and, consequently, was literally frozen out. It is estimated that 400,000 of his 600,000-man army died from the cold and starvation.”

 
 
 
livefreeordie
Junior Silent
2.1.7  livefreeordie  replied to  MrFrost @2.1.4    6 years ago

Global Warming vs. Solar Cooling: The Showdown Begins in 2020

“A periodic solar event called a "grand minimum" could overtake the sun perhaps as soon as 2020 and lasting through 2070, resulting in diminished magnetism, infrequent sunspot production and less ultraviolet (UV) radiation reaching Earth — all bringing a cooler period to the planet that may span 50 years.

The last grand-minimum event — a disruption of the sun's 11-year cycle of variable sunspot activity — happened in the mid-17th century. Known as the Maunder Minimum, it occurred between 1645 and 1715, during a longer span of time when parts of the world became so cold that the period was called the Little Ice Age, which lasted from about 1300 to 1850

Sunspot activity was high in 2014 and has been dipping ever since, as the sun moves toward the low end of its 11-year cycle, known as the solar minimum, NASA reported in June 2017. But a pattern of ever-decreasing sunspots over recent solar cycles resembles patterns from the past that preceded grand-minimum events. This similarity hints that another such event may be fast approaching, the researchers reported in the study.

And the scientists have estimated how intense such an event might be, by analyzing close to 20 years of data recording radiation output from stars that follow cycles similar to that of our sun. Solar radiation output typically drops during a normal solar minimum, though not enough to disrupt climate patterns on Earth. However, UV radiation output during a grand minimum could mean activity plummets by an additional 7 percent, the researchers wrote in the study. As a result, air temperatures on Earth's surface would cool by as much as several tenths of a degree Fahrenheit (a change of a half-degree F is the equivalent to about three-tenths of a degree Celsius) on average, according to the study.”

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Expert
2.1.8  MrFrost  replied to  livefreeordie @2.1.6    6 years ago
AGW is one of the greatest hoaxes ever perpetrated on mankind.

Facts do not lie, dispute them or move on. 

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Expert
2.1.9  MrFrost  replied to  livefreeordie @2.1.7    6 years ago

From your own link....

But it's unlikely that we'll see a return to the extreme cold from centuries ago, researchers reported in a new study. Since the Maunder Minimum, global average temperatures have been on the rise, driven by  climate change . Though a new decades-long dip in solar radiation could slow global warming somewhat, it wouldn't be by much, the researchers' simulations demonstrated. 
 
 
 
livefreeordie
Junior Silent
2.1.10  livefreeordie  replied to  MrFrost @2.1.4    6 years ago

Real Objective Science shows that the Earth has significant and regular cooling cycles.   Objective and rational people understand the real science and expect this pattern to continue. Only those who love government control over our lives cling to the fantasy that mankind can and does control the climate cycles.

“Science Writers: Dr. Gerard Bond's presentation to the AGU begins

at 8:30 A.M., P.T., Monday in Room 123 of the Moscone Center.

Recent, Abrupt Climate-Cooling Cycle Found

New evidence from deep-sea cores shows that the earth's climate cools significantly and abruptly in a naturally occurring 1,000- to 3,000-year cycle, a scientist at Columbia University's Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory reported today.

The evidence shows that abrupt coolings occurred not only during the ice ages, but also during the current warmer period - long after most ice sheets disappeared and conditions on earth more closely resembled today's. Regularly spaced layers of rocky fragments in ocean sediments revealed the rapid cooling cycle, the most recent yet discovered. The findings were reported at the American Geophysical Union's fall meeting in San Francisco by Gerard Bond, a paleoclimatologist at Lamont-Doherty, Columbia's earth sciences research institute in Palisades, N.Y.

The discovery of warming and cooling cycles in the modern era adds a new factor in predicting future global climate change. And it throws new light on historical events, such as the Little Ice Age, a cold spell that gripped the world several hundred years ago. It may even have some bearing on the Neolithic hunter called the Ice Man, whose 5,200-year-old frozen remains were discovered recently in the Alps.

"If this is indeed a regular climate rhythm, it is still going on today," Dr. Bond said. "By understanding what causes these sudden climate change cycles, we could more reliably predict how the earth's climate system could shift in the near future. Because we now think that climate flips can occur on an earth relatively free of ice, the odds of a future climate jolt could be higher than we thought.

"The evidence is growing that climate in the post-ice age world is not as stable and is more variable than once thought," Dr. Bond said at an AGU session highlighting abrupt climate change during the Holocene era - the past 10,500 years after the last ice age ended and human civilization began to flourish. "The abrupt coolings in the Holocene are not as great as those that occurred during the ice ages, but still might be significant enough to cause severe winters, agricultural disruptions, and other adverse impacts on people."

The abrupt coolings occurred within 200 years, based on the layers of rock fragments that had been transported by glacial icebergs and sea ice to the North Atlantic, deposited on the seafloor and buried by subsequent sediments. At times of coolings, the amounts of rock fragments doubled or tripled in the ocean sediments. Also, different types of fragments suddenly appeared, indicating an increase in ice from several sources, including Iceland and perhaps Greenland, northern Canada and Svalbard, an island in the Arctic Ocean. The regularly spaced layers of ice-delivered debris showed that the amount of floating ice increased suddenly every 1,000 to 3,000 years. Dr. Bond dated the peaks of ice-delivered debris at about 12,300; 10,800; 8,000; 5,700; 3,900; 2,750 and 800 years ago.

The coolings dropped average temperatures in the North Atlantic region within 200 years or less. They stayed cold for several hundred years, then warmed again as quickly as they cooled, he said. The most recent of these cooling cycles might prove to be the Little Ice Age, which began sometime around 1100 A.D. and peaked a few hundred years later. During the Little Ice Age, glaciers in the Alps, Alaska, New Zealand and Sweden advanced well beyond their present limits, according to Ice Ages, a book by John and Katherine Imbrie. Snow blanketed Ethiopia's high mountains, where it is now unknown. Global climate was generally 2(F cooler than now. Europe suffered severe winters, as did North American colonists. The legendary winter Washington camped at Valley Forge was mild compared to others around the same time. To the north, New York harbor was frozen solid and people could walk from Staten Island to Manhattan.

Superimposing these cycles on human history, Dr. Bond noted that the Ice Man died "in the middle of one of the longest intervals in which ice debris was low and temperatures were presumably warm. Perhaps the now inhospitable and dangerous alpine region in which the Ice Man was found in 1991 was less so 5,200 years ago when he died. It's interesting to speculate, though he's only one sample."

In 1988, a German scientist named Hartmut Heinrich found large amounts of iceberg debris appearing in deep-sea cores every 7,000 to 10,000 years during the last ice age. These Heinrich events involved the huge Laurentide Ice Sheet that covered North America, which discharged armadas of icebergs into the North Atlantic. In January, Dr. Bond reported evidence of smaller iceberg advances, involving other, smaller glaciers, every 2,000 to 3,000 years during the ice age.

The amount of ice-delivered debris in deep-sea cores was far lower during the warmer, relatively ice-free Holocene than during the ice age. But by looking more closely, Dr. Bond found telltale, periodic layers that continued after most glaciers waned. The new evidence points to an underlying, persistent climate cycle that operates on earth whether or not large ice sheets exist.

The increase in floating ice may stem from cooler air temperatures that cause glaciers to advance and sea ice to spread. Or cooler ocean temperatures may allow more ice to survive long transits before they melt. The melting ice, in turn, may add freshwater to the North Atlantic and disrupt a delicately balanced global ocean circulation system that now keeps Europe warmer than North America, Dr. Bond said.

His research was supported by the National Science Foundation and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.”

 
 
 
livefreeordie
Junior Silent
2.1.11  livefreeordie  replied to  MrFrost @2.1.9    6 years ago

You took one speculative opinion against the overwhelming scientific evidence of the several articles and links I posted

like most worshippers of the hoax of AGW, you choose opinion and manipulated modeling over objective science and the earth’s historical climate record

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Expert
2.1.12  MrFrost  replied to  livefreeordie @2.1.10    6 years ago
Real Objective Science shows that the Earth has significant and regular cooling cycles. 

No shit, we have known that for decades. What you are missing is that we suddenly reversed a cooling trend and are now warming...when we should be cooling. Why? People and the industrial revolution. You are only telling half the story. 

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Expert
2.1.13  MrFrost  replied to  livefreeordie @2.1.11    6 years ago

I posted information from your own damn article that proves you wrong.

NEXT!!!!!!!!!!!!

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Expert
2.1.14  MrFrost  replied to  XXJefferson51 @2.1.2    6 years ago
It is important to be good stewards over the earth and its resources.  

Then why is trump rolling back protections for that Earth we are supposed to be taking care of? Forgot about that, didn't you. 

 
 
 
livefreeordie
Junior Silent
2.1.15  livefreeordie  replied to  MrFrost @2.1.14    6 years ago

I didn’t forget it. That’s one of the reasons I support him. It’s not the role of the federal government who always does so in a totalitarian manner.

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Expert
2.1.16  MrFrost  replied to  livefreeordie @2.1.15    6 years ago

I didn't ask if you did forget it. Are you saying trump is a totalitarian? 

 
 
 
livefreeordie
Junior Silent
2.1.17  livefreeordie  replied to  MrFrost @2.1.13    6 years ago

No you didn’t. From the 3 posts you took one paragraph of speculative opinion and stated that it negates the evidence that was presented.

 [deleted]

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Expert
2.1.18  MrFrost  replied to  livefreeordie @2.1.17    6 years ago
Opinion matters more than science and fact

Which is all you have presented. FACTS have proved that man made global warming is a reality. The entire planet knows it. Why is it that the only sizable group of people on Earth that still deny that fact is the GOP in the USA? Simple. A democrat suggested global warming is a reality. If a republican had suggested it ~30 years ago? The GOP would believe it whole heartedly. That's how partisan our society has become. Pretty sad. But....the facts support man made global warming, no question of it. You can spin data and cherry pick talking points all you want, it will not change the facts. 

But don't take it from me, take it from your messiah trump...

Trump Resort in Ireland Will Build Seawalls to Protect Against Climate Change

 
 
 
Nowhere Man
Junior Guide
2.1.19  Nowhere Man  replied to  MrFrost @2.1.18    6 years ago
Which is all you have presented. FACTS have proved that man made global warming is a reality.

Sure to one political side that like to use fear mongering on the people to gain leverage to tax them into oblivion.....

And oh, just to make sure you know..... Whacko liberal WA State rejected the whole carbon tax ideal of the progressive liberals here.... (not just a simple rejection, outright obliteration is a more accurate way to put it)

Take away tor vehicle for greater taxation? you might find more people willing to look at the data and the theories being advanced by said data....

But as long as your side uses it to steal more and more wealth of the people of the planet? not a snowballs chance in hell....

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Expert
2.1.20  MrFrost  replied to  Nowhere Man @2.1.19    6 years ago
tax them into oblivion.....

In which country? You are aware that there are other countries on the Earth OTHER than the USA, right? 

Whacko liberal WA State

I live in WA., we also have the second best economy in the country. Also? It's just Washington, not Washington STATE. 

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
2.1.21  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  MrFrost @2.1.8    6 years ago

Do not ever invite another member providing quality information to move on from my seed.  

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Expert
2.1.23  MrFrost  replied to  XXJefferson51 @2.1.21    6 years ago
Do not ever invite another member providing quality information to move on from my seed.  

Or? You're upset I asked someone to post facts? 

LMFAO!!!!!!!!

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
2.1.24  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  MrFrost @2.1.23    6 years ago

That member did.  You just didn’t like them. Again, don’t tell a member to leave my seed or I’ll have to ask you to do so if it happens again. 

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Expert
2.1.25  MrFrost  replied to  XXJefferson51 @2.1.24    6 years ago
Again, don’t tell a member to leave my seed or I’ll have to ask you to do so if it happens again. 

1) I didn't ask them to leave.

2) You can ask me all you want, I will keep right on posting. 

 
 
 
Nowhere Man
Junior Guide
2.1.26  Nowhere Man  replied to  MrFrost @2.1.20    6 years ago
I live in WA.,

Well, so do I. And yes we have our share of whackos.....

From both sides.....

AS far as the second best economy in the nation? I still drive by business centers that are completely vacant. They went vacant in the collapse of 2007-8 and have died since. Amazon is making plans to leave the state and taking it's tax base elsewhere cause it is the "Enemy" of the people according to the whackos. We are considered the Heroin capital of the nation cause of whacko policies of de-policing and non-prosecution of drug offenses. Whacko policies of inviting every drug addled homeless person in the nation to take up residence here. Whacko policies of taxing beverages to social engineer the citizens by their consumption..... Highest fuel taxes in the nation, highest property taxes in the nation, (well at least top five) we have our own railway to nowhere..... our own corrupt government that favors nepotism over sound policies.

This has become one of the most corrupt state governments in the nation rivaling California & Illinois for pure political corruption......

And yes I use WA State instead of just plain Washington, cause I also worked and lived inside the beltway which is also called Washington so to tell the difference I also use WADC when discussing the "Other" washington, which is just as corrupt.....

Although I do tell that the people of WA State are getting sick and tired of the corruption, and change is coming, as long as they are so blatantly corrupt, they are turning this state red on the people level.....

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
2.1.27  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  Nowhere Man @2.1.26    6 years ago

I like most of Washington state.  Tri cities, Walla Walla, Spokane, and the whole coast from Oregon to Port Angeles and to Bremerton.  Also the last 40 miles or so along I-5 before Canada.  The lack of an income tax there is nice.  Vancouver, Wa. would be great to live and work with no income tax and then doing shopping in the Portland suburbs with no sales tax.  

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
3  Ronin2    6 years ago

California doesn't want to address the real issue, that they have too damn many people living in an area that doesn't have the resources to support them.

In 2016, the California grid region , which covers most of the state and a small portion of Nevada, imported a net daily average of 201 million kilowatthours (kWh) throughout the year from other western regions, or about 26% of its average daily demand. Those imports were supplied by the other two regions that make up the Western Interconnect (WECC). The Northwest region of WECC, which includes most of Colorado, Idaho, Nevada, Montana, Oregon, Utah, Wyoming, Washington, and a small area of northern California, supplied a daily average of 122 million kWh. The bulk of the remaining imports to the California region, 68 million kWh per day on average, came from the Southwest region of WECC, which includes much of Arizona, New Mexico, and small portions of Nevada and Texas.

California water agencies are on track to satisfy a state mandate to reduce water consumption 20 percent by 2020. But according to their own projections, that savings won’t be enough to keep up with population growth just a decade later.

A 2009 state law requires urban water agencies to reduce per-capita water consumption 20 percent by 2020, compared with use at the start of the century. Most agencies are on track to reach that goal, and have made even more progress thanks to emergency cuts over the past year triggered by the ongoing drought.

However, by 2030, the data show, these savings will be more than erased by anticipated population growth. According to projections by the water agencies themselves, their total water deliveries will increase 16 percent by 2030 compared to their estimates for 2015.

California’s population, already larger than all other Western states combined, is expected to grow 14 percent during that same period, reaching an estimated 44 million people by 2030, according to the state Department of Finance.

Until California controls their population growth they will be more subject to intense environmental changes; and not being able to cope with them.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
3.1  Kavika   replied to  Ronin2 @3    6 years ago

How would California control their population. 

Texas currently has 28 million residents with growth projected to reach 40 million by 2050. Should Texas control it's growth and how would either state do that?

Water issues are a major concern in most of the west and  Texas as well. Large populations of both states drain the resources and create problems. 

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
3.1.1  JBB  replied to  Kavika @3.1    6 years ago

Growth on north Texas will be limited due to lack of fresh water...

 
 
 
Dean Moriarty
Professor Quiet
3.1.2  Dean Moriarty  replied to  Kavika @3.1    6 years ago

One of the best ways is to fight socialism. Return the responsibility for the children back where it belongs to the parents. Then they will think twice about breeding like rabbits if they are responsible for the cost of the kids. This will also decrease immigration which contributes to the problem. 

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
3.1.3  Kavika   replied to  Dean Moriarty @3.1.2    6 years ago

Here is the problem with that solution Dean...If we didn't have immigration and a decent birthrate we'd be in the same situation that Japan is in...On the up side if we did follow your solution we'd have to increase taxes to compensate....

I like it.

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
3.1.4  Ronin2  replied to  Kavika @3.1    6 years ago

Did you hear me say that population control isn't a problem elsewhere? It is a problem in the US as a whole. We consume far more than we can produce; and our numbers are going nothing but up. Uncontrolled illegal immigration is a large part of the problem; anchor babies are another; and the fact that the poor produce more offspring than the rich.

China is facing the same situation and has taken draconian measures. 

I doubt the US is ready to accept near those policies. We cannot have open borders; and unsustainable birth levels at the same time. Want to let everyone in, then there needs to be a rule like China's- 1 child per family- no exceptions- no second chances. It will never work; but it is the solution that no one wants to talk about.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
3.1.5  JBB  replied to  Ronin2 @3.1.4    6 years ago

America remains The World's Bread Basket. Our military dominates and dwarfs all others combined. We are by far the world's financial powerhouse allowing our economy to fuel the world's. There are no problems we cannot address if we have the will and faithful leadership. No doubt Our current leadership is lacking but that can be changed. We are, after all, a democracy. So, our future remains boundless as long as we retain our founding values and conserve this land which has provided our boundless national wealth. The environmental problems we face are universal and are certainly not limited to California. During the Dust Bowl we adopted conservation techniques to alleviate the problem. Are we less advanced now and less prepared to face this problem head on? I wonder... 

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
3.1.7  Kavika   replied to  Ronin2 @3.1.4    6 years ago
Did you hear me say that population control isn't a problem elsewhere

I asked what your the solutions for CA and TX were. You answered with an outdated policy for China which has since rescinded. Their one child policy wasn't working in that is had unintended consequences.  

We consume far more than we can produce;

Are you talking about food? If so do you have links to back this up?

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
3.1.8  JBB  replied to    6 years ago

What does that even mean? I'm sure I haven't a clue, again...

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
3.1.9  Ronin2  replied to  Kavika @3.1.7    6 years ago

I am not talking about just food. I am talking about fuel, water, air quality, increased demand on electrical grids and infrastructure. Or do you think that somehow all of this magically appears to compensate ever increasing population numbers?

It all has to come from somewhere; and until there are controls on population size it will never be enough. 

I used China as an example. Yes, their 1 child per family failed; but they don't have near the immigration numbers the US does (both legal and illegal).  We have to do something; but no one wants to talk about it. It is unmanageable so do nothing. Then be shocked when everything comes crashing down.

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
3.1.10  Ronin2  replied to  JBB @3.1.5    6 years ago
America remains The World's Bread Basket.

They said that before the start of the Dust Bowl in 1930.  Keep trying to grow produce in lands that won't support it; and we will be saying the same thing again. Technological advancements can only achieve so much.

Our military dominates and dwarfs all others combined.

Yup, and sucks down a great amount of our resources. You want more population and resources going towards supporting them; then the military needs to be scaled down. Which means no more leader of the free world. No more NATO pit bull. Most of all our "allies" pulling their own weight for a change and not relying on the US to do all of the heavy lifting.  Good luck with that. Ask the last several POTUS how that goes.

We are by far the world's financial powerhouse allowing our economy to fuel the world's.

You are almost hilarious. The US does lead the world economy from one financial bubble to the next. Want to bet on which bubble will be the one we can't recover from when it bursts?

There are no problems we cannot address if we have the will and faithful leadership. No doubt Our current leadership is lacking but that can be changed.

Not just the current leadership; but the past leadership as well. Can't run around destabilizing the planet and expect anything good to come of it. Can't turn third countries into rubble countless times over and expect no fallout. Reagan, Bush I, Clinton, Bush II, and Obama were all exceedingly good at doing that. Not to mention the wasted resources on rebuilding those countries- just to have the governments we propped up fail.

We are, after all, a democracy.

A democratic republic. Please remind Hillary. Again.

So, our future remains boundless as long as we retain our founding values and conserve this land which has provided our boundless national wealth.

Pretty hard to conserve the land when it is needed for an ever burgeoning population. Which brings us back to the topic of California. Too many people living on land that can't possibly support the numbers; with more coming every year. But rather than talk about the one thing that will work population control we would rather scream climatic change, global warming, and whatever other garbage they come up with next. Until consumption of natural resources reaches a sustainable level the rest will continue to get worse.

The environmental problems we face are universal and are certainly not limited to California.

Never said they were; but the article is about California. Not the entire US. I limited my facts to California. Pick almost any other state and we can discuss the same thing.

During the Dust Bowl we adopted conservation techniques to alleviate the problem. Are we less advanced now and less prepared to face this problem head on? I wonder

Glad you mentioned the Dust Bowl as I did above. Back in 1930 they thought they had all the answers as well. Nature did a nice readjustment to prove they didn't. We now have much better technology; and far more people that are dependent on it. We are putting a much greater strain on the environment (as a planet). How long before we reach the tipping point where nature does another readjustment using famine, plague, war, or a combination of all of them? The planet might survive; the human race- not so sure. So take your pick- either we control our population size- or the planet will correct it for us.

 
 
 
mocowgirl
Professor Quiet
3.1.11  mocowgirl  replied to  Ronin2 @3.1.9    6 years ago
I am not talking about just food. I am talking about fuel, water, air quality, increased demand on electrical grids and infrastructure. Or do you think that somehow all of this magically appears to compensate ever increasing population numbers?

I am very concerned by the fact that our species is, as a whole, is using our planet's resources as an unsustainable rate and have been for several decades.

The US citizens had already used their fair share of the planet's resources for 2018 before spring.  Adding millions of more consumers to the US population could be considered inhumane to the remainder of life on the planet.  However, I do not believe that anything will ever be done that addresses this problem.  Our species will continue to consume resources with no real consideration of what the effects are until it bites them personally.

Earth Overshoot Day marks the date when we (all of humanity) have used more from nature than our planet can renew in the entire year. In 2018, it fell on August 1.

 

We are using 1.7 Earths.
We use more ecological resources and services than nature can regenerate through overfishing, overharvesting forests, and emitting more carbon dioxide into the atmosphere than ecosystems can absorb.

 
 
 
 
mocowgirl
Professor Quiet
3.1.12  mocowgirl  replied to  mocowgirl @3.1.11    6 years ago
Our species will continue to consume resources with no real consideration of what the effects are until it bites them personally.

Below is a link to how populations rank in resource consumption by their "Overshoot Day".

Country Overshoot Days

A country’s overshoot day is the date on which Earth Overshoot Day would fall if all of humanity consumed like the people in this country.

Let’s take Switzerland, for example, using the latest data available (for 2014):

  • The Ecological Footprint in Switzerland is 4.85 gha per person
  • Global biocapacity is 1.68 gha per person

Therefore, it would take   (4.85/ 1.68) = 2.9   Earths if everyone lived like the Swiss,

OR

we can determine Switzerland’s overshoot day as   365 * (1.68/ 4.85) = 126th   day in the year. The 126th day is the 7th of May, the Swiss overshoot day (in 2014).

By way of the country overshoot equation above, a country will only have an overshoot day if their Ecological Footprint per person is greater than global biocapacity (1.68 gha). Countries whose Ecological Footprint per person are less than global biocapacity (1.68 gha) do not have an overshoot day and are therefore not included in our list below.

Countries’ overshoot dates are calculated with Global Footprint Network’s National Footprint Accounts, which are updated annually.  
 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
3.1.13  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  Ronin2 @3.1.10    6 years ago

California is about the same size as Japan in square miles with 1/3 their population.  The problem is that Ca’s population is set up where the less water there is the more people there are.  The southern 1/3 of CA has about 25 million people, the middle 1/3 has 12 million and the northern 1/3 has about 2 million.  

 
 
 
livefreeordie
Junior Silent
3.2  livefreeordie  replied to  Ronin2 @3    6 years ago

Most of California’s population growth comes from the illegals

native Californians like myself have been abandoning that cesspool for over a decade, moving to states that still promote individualism like Texas, Arizona, Idaho, Montana, and the Dakotas

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
3.2.1  JBB  replied to  livefreeordie @3.2    6 years ago

California has a ten billion dollar surplus butt Texas is broke ass...

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Expert
3.2.2  MrFrost  replied to  JBB @3.2.1    6 years ago

True. If CA. ceased to exist, 10 red states would starve to death. 

Notice the bottom of the list, all red states, at the top of the list? Mostly blue states. 

 
 
 
livefreeordie
Junior Silent
3.2.3  livefreeordie  replied to  JBB @3.2.1    6 years ago

California’s Budget “Surplus” is nothing but Shadows and Mirrors

“California’s Titanic budget heading for fiscal icebergs

The second iceberg is the balance sheet of the state. It is still ugly. We have the largest unrestricted net deficit ($169 billion) and the largest unfunded pension liabilities in the nation.

And as of June 30, 2018, new Government Accounting Standards Board rules will require California to include an estimated $91.5 billion in unfunded retiree medical liabilities. The Golden State’s balance sheet deficit will be more than a quarter-trillion dollars!

The University of California’s unrestricted net deficit was $11 billion in 2016. The next year, 2017, it was $19 billion upside down. When we add the retiree medical for the UC system to the balance sheet for June 30, 2018, it will be more than $38 billion in the red!”

As wealthy and middle class taxpayer continue leaving the State, CA will find itself drowning in deficits and debt because the radical left will never abandon their Marxist programs

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Expert
3.2.4  MrFrost  replied to  livefreeordie @3.2.3    6 years ago
California’s Budget “Surplus” is nothing but Shadows and Mirrors

Wrong.

California’s State Budget: The Enacted 2018–19 Budget

    • The spending plan reflects significant economic growth.
      On June 27, 2018, Governor Brown signed the 2018–19 Budget Act, which includes $201.4 billion in spending. General Fund appropriations total $138.7 billion, an $11.6 billion (or 9.2%) increase over the revised 2017–18 budget expenditures. General Fund revenues are estimated at $137.7 billion for 2018–19, which is $5.2 billion (3.9%) more than the revised 2017–18 revenues.
    • K–12 schools and higher education see continued funding increases.  
      The budget allocates an additional $3.7 billion to fully fund the Local Control Funding Formula (LCFF), which supplies base grants to K–12 schools and extra funding for targeted student groups. K–12 schools will also receive $1.1 billion in discretionary funds, $300 million to help low-performing students, and support for career technical education: $150 million to continue a grant program and $164 million through the Strong Workforce Program. The budget includes $523 million to implement a new funding formula for community colleges, based on overall enrollment, enrollment of low-income students, and performance outcomes. The spending plan also provides $100 million in one-time funds ($20 million ongoing) to create a new online community college focused on credentialing and certificate programs. Base funding for California State University increases by $92 million, with an additional $105 million ongoing to support operational costs and the Graduation Initiative, and $120 million over four years for enrollment growth. The University of California’s base funding increases by $92 million, with an additional $5 million ongoing for enrollment growth and $105 million in one-time funding for general university needs
    • Support for working Californians and homelessness has been expanded.  
      Eligibility for the state Earned Income Tax Credit was expanded to include working individuals between the ages of 18 and 24 and those over 65, and the income range now takes into account the rising state minimum wage; these changes will benefit an additional 700,000 households. One-time funding of $500 million will go to help local governments address the homelessness crisis, with the state asking voters to approve $2 billion in additional funding for affordable housing (the No Place Like Home program) on the November ballot. The state will also spend $90 million in 2018–19 ($360 million ongoing) to increase CalWORKs grants, which assist children and families living in deep poverty (with cash incomes below 50% of the federal poverty level, about $12,500 for a family of four).
    • The budget includes spending on infrastructure, climate change, and one-time needs.
      New funding for transportation infrastructure (SB 1) will provide $4.6 billion in the first full year, split evenly between state and local priorities. The budget also allocates $334 million to various state departments for deferred maintenance and $630 million to build a replacement for the State Capitol Annex. Funding for cap-and-trade programs to reduce greenhouse gas emissions total $1.4 billion in 2018–19. The spending plan also includes $1.3 billion in lease revenue bonds to construct 10 new court facilities, $134 million to help counties replace their voting systems, and $90 million for outreach related to the upcoming 2020 Census.
    • California continues to build budget reserves for future economic downturns.  
      The state made a constitutionally mandated payment of $1.7 billion to the Rainy Day Fund. If combined with an optional payment of $2.6 billion—which will be held in the new Budget Deficit Savings Account until May 2019—the Rainy Day Fund would reach $13.8 billion by July 2019. In addition, the new Safety Net Reserve Fund will have $200 million to help pay for future health and welfare programs during the next recession. Both new reserve accounts have fewer restrictions than the Rainy Day Fund, giving the state more spending flexibility.

 
 
 
livefreeordie
Junior Silent
3.2.5  livefreeordie  replied to  MrFrost @3.2.4    6 years ago

Not wrong. You are ignoring the UNFUNDED pension liabilities which are greater than the other 49 states together.   Under Brown rthey have underfunded those public pensions to make the budget ledger look better than it is.

furthermore as more and more wealthy and middle class taxpayers leave the state, the risks of financial collapse grow greater

middle class taxpayers can no longer afford to live there with $4 per gallon gas and one bedroom apartment rentals in Southern California averaging over $1800 per month 

moving to Arizona let’s me live a middle class life on less than $15000 per year.  I would need 4 times that just to survive in California

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Expert
3.2.6  MrFrost  replied to  livefreeordie @3.2.5    6 years ago
moving to Arizona let’s me live a middle class life on less than $15000 per year.  I would need 4 times that just to survive in California

Maybe you should find a better paying job. Not California's fault you cannot afford to live there. 

 
 
 
Nowhere Man
Junior Guide
3.2.7  Nowhere Man  replied to  MrFrost @3.2.6    6 years ago

No it's not california's fault....

It's the people that run California's Government that are at fault....

It's rapidly getting to where I"m going to have difficulty living here in WA State... Why?

Cause it is also turning into a progressive tax and spend hell hole... It's just getting too damned expensive....

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Expert
3.2.8  MrFrost  replied to  Nowhere Man @3.2.7    6 years ago

Yes, how DARE they have a great economy!!!! Those bastards!!!! [eye roll]

 
 
 
Nowhere Man
Junior Guide
3.2.9  Nowhere Man  replied to  MrFrost @3.2.8    6 years ago

Yep, and that is only if you really support the wealthy getting wealthier, the poor getting poorer and the middle level culls evacuating as fast as they can....

Great for the elites to give handouts to the poor without having to let anyone else have a taste of success...

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.2.11  Texan1211  replied to    6 years ago

Estimates run from $77 BILLION to $97 BILLION.

It is at LEAST going to be $13 BILLION over budget estimates already, 4 years behind schedule, and who knows what the true cost will end up as?

My best guess it will end up well over $100 BILLION, be at least 50% over budget, and probably won't be finished in my lifetime. I am 60 years old.

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Expert
3.2.12  MrFrost  replied to  Texan1211 @3.2.11    6 years ago

California now world’s fifth-largest economy, bigger than Britain

The Golden State is getting even richer.

California is now the world’s fifth-largest economy, according to data released Friday morning by the U.S. Department of Commerce. Its 2017 Gross State Product was $2.747 trillion, surpassing the United Kingdom’s $2.625 trillion Gross Domestic Product.

The new ranking marks the highest point for California’s relative GSP since 2002. The state had slipped to the 10th-largest world economy in 2012, when its GSP was just $2.003 trillion.

Texas was the U.S.’s next highest-producing state with a GSP of $1.696 trillion, followed by New York, Florida and Illinois. Vermont, Wyoming and Montana produced the least valuable goods and service in the U.S.

California trails only Germany ($3.685 trillion), Japan ($4.872 trillion), China ($12.015 trillion) and the United States (16.644 without California) among the world’s leading economies.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.2.13  Texan1211  replied to  MrFrost @3.2.12    6 years ago

wtf does that have to do with the costs of the train boondoggle in California and the cost to its taxpayers?

 
 
 
livefreeordie
Junior Silent
3.2.15  livefreeordie  replied to  MrFrost @3.2.6    6 years ago

At age 70 I’m not looking for a job. And I left the corporate world many years ago to serve God. 

I prefer living in rural areas with a low cost of living where people are not led by materialism and the pursuit of wealtHy

BTW, only seniors with retirement incomes larger than the national average income can afford to live in Southern CA. Do you think all seniors must be forced to work until they die just to pay rent

 
 
 
livefreeordie
Junior Silent
3.2.16  livefreeordie  replied to  MrFrost @3.2.12    6 years ago

This is the Marxist ideology of the Democrats brings

“California’s housing affordability challenges remain daunting and continue to increase, according to a draft report from the state’s Department of Housing and Community Development released Tuesday.

The report found:

1 Housing production over the last decade fell more than 100,000 new homes short of demand and continues to lag, leading to surging prices at all income levels.

2 The state’s homeownership rates are at their lowest since the 1940s.

3 One-third of the state’s renters spend more than half their income on housing costs.

4 California has 12% of the nation’s population, but 22% of the country’s homeless population.”

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.2.17  Texan1211  replied to  MrFrost @3.2.2    6 years ago

That is a falsehood.

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
3.2.18  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  livefreeordie @3.2.15    6 years ago

The only seniors in the Bay Area or SoCal who can afford to retire there are those who bought homes and paid them off before retirement and have grandfathered low property taxes.  

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
3.2.19  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  livefreeordie @3.2.16    6 years ago

Your points are all correct.  Now those rich liberals who are buying their own houses in the SoCal or Bay Area regions can only deduct the same amount of mortgage interest as anyone else in the country capped at 750k value of mortgage no matter where you are.  So, the more the big cities mismanage their housing and create deliberate NIMBY shortages driving their cost ever higher, the more revenue they will pay Uncle Sam.  Red state citizens no longer will be subsidizing the high housing costs of our urban coastal areas.  They won’t be subsidizing our high state income and local taxes either as those too are capped nationally at 10k. Rich urban Californians and urban New Yorkers will be paying the highest taxes and tax rates in the country and they deserve it.  

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
3.2.20  Tessylo  replied to  Have Opinion Will Travel @3.2.14    6 years ago
'That’s not a guess, that’s a very  astute opinion.'

jrSmiley_10_smiley_image.gif If you say so Oliver!

jrSmiley_86_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Expert
4  MrFrost    6 years ago

This is the actual link to the article. 

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
4.1  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  MrFrost @4    6 years ago

The seeded article button didn’t get you there?  It was also a featured article at Real Clear Politics yesterday.  

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
5  It Is ME    6 years ago

"With proper Forest Management, w e can stop the devastation constantly going on in California. Get Smart!"

jrSmiley_13_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
5.1  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  It Is ME @5    6 years ago

Exactly.  jrSmiley_81_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
5.2  Tessylo  replied to  It Is ME @5    6 years ago

Didn't tRump say that?

He's yet to get smart.  He's a stupid fuck.  

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
5.2.1  It Is ME  replied to  Tessylo @5.2    6 years ago
Didn't tRump say that?

Was he wrong ?

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
5.2.2  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  It Is ME @5.2.1    6 years ago

Whoever said it was 100% right on and correct.

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
5.2.3  It Is ME  replied to  XXJefferson51 @5.2.2    6 years ago

Like they say, "a clean home is a happy home ".

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
5.2.4  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  It Is ME @5.2.3    6 years ago

True enough!

 
 

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