Defending Donald Trump Is Un-American
I have a nephew that is both a John Wayne fan and a Donald Trump fan. I have not discussed it with him, but his position is quite incongruous.
In his movies the John Wayne character was an archetype or icon. He was always a straight shooter, always scrupulously honest , and always defended the "little guy" against the land baron, the crook who owned the frontier town, and the bully. In Rio Bravo Wayne's sheriff character opposes the corrupt cattle baron who owns the town. In The Comancheros Wayne has to defeat a narcissistic and delusional criminal who runs his badlands fiefdom like a cult. In The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance the Wayne character faces down the town bully of the title.
Although in real life Wayne was a conservative, his characters had no political bent, they were just always on the side of truth and justice against the evil, the corrupt, and the bully.
The John Wayne character, one of the most revered of all American heroes, has virtually nothing in common with Donald Trump. Rather, Trump's character is very much like what the Duke's characters always opposed.
I could probably get my nephew to realize that after we talked about it a while, but I think he would still rationalize his support for Trump. It's not worth the trouble right now.
Growing up in the Irish working class/middle class on the south side of Chicago, there was always one type of person no one wanted to be seen as being - "Don't be an asshole" is a common warning given to someone who is in danger of doing something that would bring disrepute on the group or the family, or make one be seen as an unwarranted braggart , bully, or clown. If you mistreat or embarrass other people in order to make more of yourself, you are an asshole. I am quite sure families and groups of friends across the country and around the world pass along the admonition "don't be an asshole" to each other and the next generation on an ongoing basis. It is great advice, and represents the American ideal.
It seems to me that no one ever gave such advice to young Donald Trump.
When Trump began to run for president in 2015 I read a few articles about him, because I wasn't tremendously familiar with details of his past. I soon realized that almost every article or book written about Trump's past (biographies) was ultimately negative about him, or was something that he had paid for.
You may have seen some Trump biographers on cable tv over the past few years - Michael D'Antonio, Tim O'Brien, David Cay Johnston , and the man who wrote Trump's autobiography The Art Of The Deal, Tony Schwartz. All of these people have written books about Trump's life, and all of them say he is a bully, a narcissist, a liar, and a crook. It is very difficult to find a flattering book about Trump that isn't either paid for by him or on the level of a comic book.
Now, at the end of his second year in office there are dark and troubling signs on the horizon for Trump and the country. The one thing he could never withstand, sustained investigation into his business practices by law enforcement, is coming true. 2019 will be a miserable year for Trump and his family. I have no sympathy for him, he has brought every bit of it on himself with his behavior, the lies, the crooked dealings.
Which brings me to my main point.
It is un - American to defend Donald Trump.
Americans don't protect bullies, habitual liars, cheats , bigots, crooks and misogynists.
When we do defend them it is un-American.
Trumpsters, you are running out of time. The sand is slipping out of the hourglass and Trumpism is living on borrowed time. Sometime in the near or relatively near future Donald Trump will be in total disgrace. He will either resign, be impeached, or lose badly in his next election. In any case he will soon be exposed as unethical, deceitful and criminal.
Defending him is un-American, because our ideals as a nation reject the unethical, deceitful and criminal AND the asshole, even though obviously sometimes those attributes unfortunately temporarily prevail. We should aspire to our ideals, and our ideals do not approve of Donald Trump.
Tags
Who is online
47 visitors
Wow. Yet, I bet you defended Bill Clinton who was all of those things you are claiming Trump is. Because, there is and was much more evidence that Bill Clinton was and is those things compared to Trump. If you didn't want any of those things present today in the political realm, you should have voted out your Democrat Representatives and Senators in 2000 and kept them out of office as they are the ones that made all of that okay by not voting for impeaching and removing Clinton from office.
Probably one of the biggest B.S. statements I have heard on NT in quite a while! As if only the progressive liberal left has the market cornered on what is considered un American or not!
People who defend Trump really need to think about what the hell they are doing. It is un - American.
The worst part is that everyone knew or SHOULD have known before the '16 election that Trump is a piece of shit.
Sorry, but I stand by my statement above.
How about we start listening to the MAJORITY of the American people and let the deplorables shut the hell up for a while.
There you go. That's why I have to take such long hiatuses from here. Too many obvious Russian trolls or baited trolls.
Keep up the good work John. Most of us Americans tuning in here appreciate your dedication to truth and honesty.
By the way, I met John Wayne in my youth. Then later met him when he was shooting a movie in my territory. It was a thrill of a lifetime. He was genuine and he was playful. He told me he loved my Native Americaness and to always hold myself proud of my heritage. (my father did some work for him on a property he owned at the time.)
Who the hell are you to say who gets to speak and who doesn't?
The 1st amendment is good for everyone, as long as they echo my opinion? One of the most pompous arrogant statements I have seen yet and there have been lots to choose from.....
A minority of Americans were so gullible as to believe in the giant evil straw woman effigy of Hillary invented by Russian operatives who spent $1.25 million a month targeting them through social media that they managed an electoral college win over the will of the majority who overwhelmingly voted for sense and sensibility. Yes, the majority does realize that the minority won which isn't in question, but how they won will forever be followed with the facts of Russian interference in the election and how they reached 120 million Americans, 62 million of whom were gullible enough to buy their bullshit and allowed themselves to be manipulated and used by an ex-KGB agent. I really don't understand how conservative Republicans aren't feeling like dirty sex dolls that were so obviously raped by an enemy foreign government when every one of their holes must be sore and they're still all sticky with Putin's love juice.
Oh, we got "THE MEMO" all right ! In 2019 democrats are going to GRASP REALITY by its balls and SWINNNGG from the Chandelier !
2019 Democrat ' YELL ':
Did we have a compulsive liar president named Donald Trump in those years? I think not. Is it a well-established and accepted fact that most DOJ/FBI officials are conservative in their politics? I think so. Did a prior president call defendants who cooperate with the government to solve important cases, "RATS"? I think not.
So when you start pointing fingers, always remember three of them are pointing back at you!
With 90% of the press coverage being aimed at convincing people that Hillary would be president but for Trump and the Russians, it's not surprising what most people believe.
And, you stopped by for what again? The years you mentioned had what to do with "defending Donald Trump is un-american"?
You can not defend the indefensible so you spin it. Well, "RATS" that what President Donald Trump calls people who support the government in its efforts to solve cases. The question is this: How - the. . .heaven, are you going to defend that?
All that other 'poot' being released is distracting, but lacks substance.
You're waffling. . . .
2019 Democrat Slogan: "We Investigate, you decide."
Most Americans don't believe his denialsthat his campaign colluded with Russians in the 2016 campaign. !!!!!!!!
Most Americans believe Saddam's Iraq was involved in 9/11.
A Poll means they must have been!
[Removed] for [taunting!]
The "Orange" Birther himself was silent during Obama's time in office?! Where were you then, again?
OMG! Do NOT put "Russian love juice" in your search engine bar!
OMG! What's gonna happen? Will Americans start growing lipomas on their foreheads? Call Dr. Pimple Popper!
Well guess what John. The court of public opinion means SQUAT in this instance. I'm sure you understand that right?............RIGHT???
The historic 40 seat loss the gop earned 11/6 was way more than squat...
Polls don't mean anything at all. They are a small sample usually 1000 people for the good polls and then the results of that number is projected to every single American. So, in reality, polls are just made up numbers, which is why I rarely quote them. I only do so to show trends as that is what they are best at doing.
Not to mention that poll results are very easily manipulated by those commissioning said polls. Don't like a answer, circular file!
Oh. Wrong two years? Clock resetting in . . . .
Historic loss?
Clinton and Obama EACH lost more than 40.
Winning the "Childrens" table …. doesn't mean squat !
Would that be more or less historic than the 63 seat loss the democrats lost in 2010?
John Wayne was bisexual.
Other than Hollywood hearsay and rumors, do you have a factual source to prove your claim?
Seems you know as much as I do.
Total nonsensejust another attempt by leftist haters to slander a true American
Seems like he knows s lot more...
How does being a bisexual actor make one a true American?
The so-called, "law and order" President called criminals working with the government to solve crimes - "Rats." That alone should clear the fog remaining for any one who is not willing to see the twisted 'universe' occupied by Donald Trump's head and mind for what it is.
Former FBI Director Comey pointed it out rightly. Trump is dangerously delusional.
YOU! INVOKING JOHN WAYNE?
Now THAT is criminal......
And decidedly cruel.
If you knew anything about John Wayne, you would know, half the democrats out there he would feed a knuckle sandwich to, the other half he would boot in the ass......
He took part in creating the conservative Motion Picture Alliance for the Preservation of American Ideals in February 1944, and was elected president of that organization in 1949. An ardent anti-communist and vocal supporter of the House Un-American Activities Committee, he made Big Jim McLain (1952) with himself as a HUAC investigator to demonstrate his support for the cause of anti-communism. Declassified Soviet documents reveal that, despite being a fan of Wayne's movies, Soviet leader Joseph Stalin according to some sources contemplated the assassination of Wayne for his frequently espoused anti-communist politics.
John Wayne would be behind T-rump as president, cause he understood that the president is larger than any one man, which many on your side seem to ignore/forget all the time in their hate.
[deleted/ taunting]
I do not hate President Donald Trump. It is liars who can impact my life which disgust me to the 'ng' degree. Now then, In your opinion, is President Donald Trump a,
I think Trump is a pathological liar. I think he has been lying his entire life. Lying is a way of cheating. One can become successful in life through hard work, good decisions, luck, etc. But that takes time and effort. One can cut corners by simply lying. Having dealt with liars (especially at the executive level) in business during my entire career I have grown to find lying (dishonesty in general) to be a despicable quality. Most people trend towards honesty - it is the exceptions to which I refer.
Suffice it to say, I am not fond of contemporary politicians and am embarrassed to have such an obvious and entirely unrepentant pathological liar like Trump holding the office of President of the United States.
I do not know about executives in general but those who spent their entire lives being "The Boss" never being held to the professional standards most everyone else must conform with do often tend to get away with lying and cheating because they are not held accountable. Public corporations have boards which should demand accountability but the actions of those directing large private enterprises often are not. Other than his father, Trump never had a boss or a board of directors to temper his tendency to lie, cheat and even steal. Now Trump is pretty much The Boss of the World. What could ever go wrong?
All my life I have distanced myself from conniving and conspicuously hypocritical people: Can't stand the type. It's costed me opportunity/ies too.
Nevertheless, to show personal openness to the good men and women do: Trump backs prison reform:
“The FIRST STEP Act would provide federal
judges the discretion to augment sentencing guidelines when
the mandatory minimum is too harsh for some criminal offenses. The FIRST STEP Act
introduces a mentor program between incarcerated youth and volunteers
from faith-based or community organizations. Additionally, the FIRST STEP Act
will retroactively reform unfair sentencing disparities that affected
2,600 federal prisoners convicted of crack offenses before 2010.”
—Dr. Bernice King
Now I have never been incarcerated, but I can empathize with men and women who would and could do better for being let out of prison at some point and being returned to normal society. If Trump follows through and signs this bill into law, I will be one of the grateful ones on behalf of something positive happening for others.
President Trump (this is acting, "presidential") and Republicans and Democrats (this is compromise as a "model") can divide the praise I will wholeheartedly extend to them all! May this specifi c cup full of praise be filled to over-flowing more than once!
This is interesting, arresting, relevant, and may make you snicker: 2 excerpts ; It's simply too long to enjoy it all here 'out-loud.'
The Original Donald Trump
The New York Establishment will ignore unscrupulous acts to serve its interests — just look how it treated Roy Cohn, onetime lawyer to the president.
Photograph by Mary Ellen Mark
A mid the aftershocks of Donald Trump’s firing of James Comey last May, I went to see Angels in America at the same theater in London, the National, where I’d first seen it as a New York Times drama critic some 25 years earlier. The play didn’t transport me quite as far from the lamentable present as I’d hoped. The new production, now on Broadway , doesn’t radically depart in tone or quality (high) from the first. But the play’s center of gravity had shifted. While Tony Kushner’s epic had been seared into my memory by the frail figure of Prior Walter, a young gay man fighting AIDS with almost the entire world aligned against him, this time it was Roy Cohn who dominated: a closeted, homophobic, middle-aged gay man also battling AIDS but who, unlike the fictional Prior, was a real-life Über -villain of America’s 20th century. “The polestar of human evil,” as one character describes him. “The worst human being who ever lived … the most evil, twisted, vicious bastard ever to snort coke at Studio 54.”
What has changed is not Angels but America. Even if you hadn’t known that Cohn had been Trump’s mentor and hadn’t read the election-year journalistic retrospectives on their toxic common tactics (counterpunch viciously, deny everything, stiff your creditors, manipulate the tabloids), you’d see and hear the current president in Cohn’s ruthless bullying and profane braggadocio. That isn’t because Nathan Lane , a Cohn for the ages, is doing a Trump impersonation. The uncanny overlap between these two figures is all there in the writing. “Was it legal? Fuck legal,” Cohn rants at one point, about having privately lobbied the judge Irving Kaufman to send Ethel Rosenberg to the electric chair. “Am I a nice man? Fuck nice. They say terrible things about me in the Nation . Fuck the Nation . You want to be Nice, or you want to be Effective?” It turns out that in his rendering of Cohn a quarter-century ago, Kushner had identified an enduring strain of political evil that is as malignant in its way as the AIDS virus, just as dangerous to the nation, and just as difficult to eradicate.
. . . .
For years it’s been a parlor game for Americans to wonder how history might have turned out if someone had stopped Lee Harvey Oswald before he shot JFK. One might be tempted — just as fruitlessly — to speculate on what might have happened if more of New York’s elites had intervened back then, nonviolently, to block or seriously challenge Trump’s path to power. They had plenty of provocation and opportunities to do so. Trump practiced bigotry on a grand scale, was a world-class liar, and ripped off customers, investors, and the city itself. Yet for many among New York’s upper register, there was no horror he could commit that would merit his excommunication. As with Cohn before him, the more outrageously and reprehensibly Trump behaved, the more the top rungs of society were titillated by him. They could cop out of any moral judgments or actions by rationalizing him as an entertaining con man: a cheesy, cynical, dumbed-down Gatsby who fit the city’s tacky 1980s Gilded Age much as F. Scott Fitzgerald’s more romantic prototype had the soigné Jazz Age of the 1920s. And so most of those who might have stopped Trump gawked like the rest of us as he scrambled up the city’s ladder, grabbing anything that wasn’t nailed down .
Source:
Tig and Everybody: This is some mighty fine writing from Mr. Frank Rich and it explains a great deal in a sometimes *crack up* manner.
So? We had to deal with a traitor like FDR; racist bullies like LBJ; a leftist like Nixon; a disastrous Carter; and the pragmatic Marxist and jihad lover Obama
I made the point that I think Trump is a pathological liar. I was responding to CB's question on Trump's honesty.
In response you tacitly agree that Trump is a pathological liar and note that you find fault with other presidents. Okay, sure, I am confident every president was flawed - some in grand ways.
What point are you trying to make other than presidents are flawed like every other human being?
What the heaven does this mean, LFoD? Care to share?
LBJ was a racist and had the well earned reputation as a bully. His civil rights moves were purely political. He used intimidation tactics heavily during his time in politics.
An EXCERPT from the end of the speech to Congress in:
@ 40:58
THE PURPOSE OF THIS GOVERNMENT
My first job after college was as a teacher in Cotulla, Tex., in a small Mexican-American school. Few of them could speak English, and I couldn't speak much Spanish. My students were poor and they often came to class without breakfast, hungry. They knew even in their youth the pain of prejudice. They never seemed to know why people disliked them. But they knew it was so, because I saw it in their eyes. I often walked home late in the afternoon, after the classes were finished, wishing there was more that I could do. But all I knew was to teach them the little that I knew, hoping that it might help them against the hardships that lay ahead.
Somehow you never forget what poverty and hatred can do when you see its scars on the hopeful face of a young child.
I never thought then, in 1928, that I would be standing here in 1965. It never even occurred to me in my fondest dreams that I might have the chance to help the sons and daughters of those students and to help people like them all over this country.
But now I do have that chance—and I'll let you in on a secret—I mean to use it. And I hope that you will use it with me.
This is the richest and most powerful country which ever occupied the globe. The might of past empires is little compared to ours. But I do not want to be the President who built empires, or sought grandeur, or extended dominion.
I want to be the President who educated young children to the wonders of their world. I want to be the President who helped to feed the hungry and to prepare them to be taxpayers instead of taxeaters.
I want to be the President who helped the poor to find their own way and who protected the right of every citizen to vote in every election.
I want to be the President who helped to end hatred among his fellow men and who promoted love among the people of all races and all regions and all parties.
I want to be the President who helped to end war among the brothers of this earth.
And so at the request of your beloved Speaker and the Senator from Montana; the majority leader, the Senator from Illinois; the minority leader, Mr. McCulloch, and other Members of both parties, I came here tonight--not as President Roosevelt came down one time in person to veto a bonus bill, not as President Truman came down one time to urge the passage of a railroad bill--but I came down here to ask you to share this task with me and to share it with the people that we both work for. I want this to be the Congress, Republicans and Democrats alike, which did all these things for all these people.
SOURCE :
Too bad he wasn't any of that.....
You need to be looking at what he actually did, not what he said he wished he could do....
Do you believe him?
Another side of LBJ ... when not making a mainstream public speech:
As quoted in "What a Real President Was Like: To Lyndon Johnson, the Great Society Meant Hope and Dignity" , by Bill Moyers , The Washington Post (13 November 1988).
Said to his chauffeur, Robert Parker, when Parker said he’d prefer to be referred to by his name rather than "boy," "n*****" or "chief." As quoted in Parker, Robert; Rashke, Richard L. (1989). Capitol Hill in Black and White . United States: Penguin Group. p. v. ISBN 0515101893 . Retrieved on 6 January 2015.
Said to a southern U.S. Senator upon the occasion of the Republicans re-introducing the Civil Right Act of 1957, according to LBJ's Special Counsel Harry McPherson. As quoted in McPherson, Harry. Interview with Michael L. Gillette. " Transcript, Harry McPherson Oral History Interview VI, 5/16/85, by Michael L. Gillette, LBJLibrary ." 16 May 1985.
Said to Senator John Stennis (D-MS) during debate on the Civil Rights Act of 1957. As quoted in Caro, Robert A. (2002). The Years of Lyndon Johnson: Master of the Senate, Volume 3 . New York: Knopf. p. 954. ISBN 0394528360 . Retrieved on 6 January 2015.
Sam, why don't you all let this n***** bill pass?
Said to Speaker of the House Sam Rayburn (D-TX) regarding the Civil Rights Act of 1957. As quoted in Dallek, Robert (1991). Lone Star Rising: Lyndon Johnson and His Times, 1908-1960 . Oxford, England: Oxford University Press. p. 519. ISBN 0195054350 . Retrieved on 5 July 2014.
These Negroes, they're getting pretty uppity these days and that's a problem for us since they've got something now they never had before, the political pull to back up their uppityness. Now we've got to do something about this, we've got to give them a little something, just enough to quiet them down, not enough to make a difference. For if we don't move at all, then their allies will line up against us and there'll be no way of stopping them, we'll lose the filibuster and there'll be no way of putting a brake on all sorts of wild legislation. It'll be Reconstruction all over again.
Said to Senator Richard Russell, Jr. (D-GA) regarding the Civil Rights Act of 1957. As quoted in Lyndon Johnson and the American Dream (1977), by Doris Kearns Goodwin, New York: New American Library, p. 155.Said to an aide in 1965 regarding the appointment of Thurgood Marshall as associate justice of the Supreme Court. As quoted in Dallek, Robert (1991). Lone Star Rising: Lyndon Johnson and His Times, 1908-1960 . Oxford, England: Oxford University Press. p. 519. ISBN 0195054350 . Retrieved on 5 July 2014.
Tig, what is the point of this? I know LBJ used the 'N' word. He was raised in a 'certain' kind of environment. But, he did not stay there. Moreover, what changed President Johnson was his epiphany at the death of John F. Kennedy. It was when the man Lyndon B. Johnson stepped into his "own" understanding as what kind of world leader he wanted to model to the world.
Now I can produce coarse statements over the spread of my life; heavens three weeks ago, . . .I literally 'lost it' and cussed someone out up one wall and down the other-side! What if those 'unlovely and ugly' words of mine were captured for all time? Would they prove the width, breadth, length, height, and depth of my spiritual journey? Would the activities and statements of my youth 'tar' the creature I am today?
LBJ was an imperfect man - nothing I write about LBJ is intended to show him as anything he is not!
Incidentally, he put his pen (and caused others to follow after) to signing documents and papers - where his mouth had been. Black people know the value of both civil rights acts to the dynamics of their experiences in this country. That is unarguable.
Moreover, it is the same caliber of leadership we are now asking of President Trump: Use his pen for the good of all Americans - instead of using his mouth! Change and be the leader such a time as this demands of him!
You tell me. You seem to be trying to argue that LBJ was not a bully and was not a racist.
It is not simply the use of the 'N' word. Read the quotes. Recognize the intent. As I noted, LBJ was about LBJ - politics for power. He acted in a manner that benefited LBJ.
I know you will never change your public position, so there is no point debating this. If you really want to get to the truth then maybe you will be inspired to objectively research LBJ rather than spending your time defending a presupposition that the public acting LBJ reflected the mores and values of the man.
This is drastically headed off-topic. I will end by stating I know what matters about LBJ, George Wallace, Ross Barnett, Robert Byrd, and many, many, more racists who at some point learned what the point of life really is all about: People. One last thing about something you wrote @3.3.14:
"You seem to be trying to argue that LBJ was not a bully and was not a racist."
That is not my point. My point is, as President, LBJ behaved himself as a leader with good intentions for minorities - men and women with no real political voice in the noisy and toxic atmosphere of 1960's politics.
If you wish to continue this further with me on LBJ: gladly, I will. But you can need to put up a separate article. I do not intend to be a distraction here.
I was done discussing this on my prior comment.
DEPARTMENT OF OOPS!
Correction:
Tig and Cal fight over EVERYTHING! Lol...
Don't let U. S. political history overwhelm you. The 1900 was a rather dynamic and complex era of political upheavals and revisions.
Read a book > get caught up > come back and clarify your statement, please.
More Democrats voted for the 1964 civil rights act than Republicans and it was signed into law by a Democrat President. And the racist Southern Democrats aka "Dixiecrats" didn't vote for it, and eventually those in their Southern States switched parties and started voting for Republicans who were marketing to the disaffected Dixiecrat's angered with Democrats betrayal of their racist beliefs and prejudices. That's why all of the racist whites still living in the ex-slaves States where their ancestors fought for their right to own humans as cattle now solidly vote Republican. They heard the Republicans Southern strategy and answered the call and now make up a large portion of Trumps base.
The Civil Rights Act vote in Congress broke down according to region, not party. Southerners generally voted against it and northerners generally voted for it, regardless of party.
With ya there my friend, you cannot discuss something with someone who refuses facts.
Absolute proof that proof is not proof for some people.....
very true, very true John.
And LBJ's real point?
Separate a historically conservative voting block from it's party and convert it to a liberal voting block for his own party by appearing to give them something but actually giving then NOTHING!
Are the Blacks better off than they were in 1960? In some small ways yes, in some major ways no......
Today, they are subjugated and enslaved to the democrat party. Which is exactly the way LBJ wanted it. Yeah he pushed for the CRA when he finally realized it was the perfect way to keep the black man in his place.
The Blacks are less free than they ever were when allied with the republicans.
There is no question that 1960's social programs have kept the US poverty rate down. (To the extent that it is kept down). That was a necessity since wages have stagnated over the past 40 years.
Thank you! Much appreciated. Stellar!
Prove it.
John, do we have your permission to delve deeper into LBJ and his legacy on this thread?
I don't care.
I am usually finished with a seed after a couple days anyway.
His parents sent him off to military school in the hope that his psychopathic/rapist behavior could be cured. Obviously this did not have the desired effect. He is still a whoremonger and a bully.
Didn't his daddy kill JFK?
That is not only a fact, it is a damn fact!
So he'd definitely knock the shit out of the pompous pretender currently in the oval office giving away the farm to his handler and ex-KGB agent Putin. First having his national security adviser offer the removal of sanctions, then delaying sanctions, now removing sanctions again and pulling out of Syria at Putin and Erdogan's request. Trump is nothing but a Russian puppet and John Wayne would have been vehemently against his Presidency and would have kicked the shit out of him if he was allowed in the same room.
We should never been in Syria in the first place. Just as we shouldn't have been in Libya either. Iraq is a different story as their then leader made many threats against us and against those of our allies around Iraq's borders. At the time that we entered the Libyan civil war, their government was cooperating with the international community about destroying their WMDs and was not threatening anyone with their military. The situation was almost the same in Syria, except there was chemical weapons used against the population. And, as far as I know, it is still unclear whether it was the Syrian government or one or more of the various rebel factions that used them.
No, it's very clear it was Assad who used them and it was obviously condoned by their ally Russia. They did it to poke the US in the nose and see what lines they could cross with impunity, and Trump showed them that they could kill civilians with chemical weapons indiscriminately with virtually no consequences. All Trump did last time was warn Putin he was about to bomb an airfield, Putin and Syria removed all essential personnel and equipment, then Trump bombed the airfield which was back in use within 2 days. I'd say Trump telegraphed his move but today it would be more appropriate to say he tweeted it, which he literally did.
Thankfully, I will never be allowed in the same room with Trump.
I was raised to believe it was very American to insist on proof before punishing someone for crimes. You would think it would be un-American to plan the impeachment of a president before he has even been nominated or before he has even been sworn in . Nevertheless, it happened. To be fair, Trump threw around some impeachment language when he was running, too.
It is also very American to accept the outcome of a legal election with dignity and then respect the authority and position of those properly elected whether you happen to like them or not and whether you happen to agree with them or not.
Years ago, after 9/11, many on the Right accused many of the Left of being un-American because they didn't want to support the Patriot Act, or war in Iraq or Afghanistan. People on the Left objected that it was very American to disagree and argue and that it was wrong to accuse other Americans of being un-American. They were right.
We do this all the time. Because we disagree with someone they aren't American enough, black enough, liberal enough, Christian enough, etc.
You would also think it would be un-American to constantly screech "Lock her up" about someone who hasn't been convicted of any crimes, or to demand that the DOJ investigate anyone who hurts Trump's feelings or says things he doesn't like, or to rail against the freedom of the press. Or for those same people to hypocritically refuse to accept the culpability of someone who pled guilty and against whom there is a great deal of evidence. It's un-American for Trump to personally threaten to use his power to punish companies who piss him off by making business decisions that don't put his ego first and foremost.
"It is also very American to accept the outcome of a legal election with dignity and then respect the authority and position of those properly elected whether you happen to like them or not and whether you happen to agree with them or not."
I accept the outcome of the legal election, but I cannot respect the authority and position of someone who does not themselves respect the dignity of that position, and who constantly violates the integrity of that office. Respect has to be earned.
We're all guilty now and then. Some more than others, obviously. Some more notoriously than others just because of their position. Americanism is an ideal we should be striving for. None of us gets there all the time.
Fewer of us seem to get there these days, than in the past. But that might just be due to the Internet and the 24-hours news cycle.
Wow, I don't think that anyone has expressed how I feel better than that. I say so little here since I don't align with either side, but I think your comment said it all.
Everyone "accepts" that Trump won the election and that he is the president. Some of us put an asterisk behind it at times because , well, if anyone ever merited an asterisk, it is this jackass.
The presidency of Donald Trump is a travesty. He's not qualified by either temperament, knowledge, or morality or ethics to be president of the United States. And everyone knows it. But we have to this "dance" where some people say "make the best of it".
What we are making of it is resistance to an unqualified habitual liar and crook who has usurped our highest office.
That will end the day he is gone and not a moment sooner.
Tell the truth and shame the Devil, if possible to do!
I do not oppose Donald Trump because of who he is.
I oppose him for what he did in calling Barack Obama out as "not American." Trump paid no cost for that!
I oppose liars in my day-to-day life and I oppose unfunny lying presidents. Case in point: As a veteran, I was so disgusted with Bill Clinton's "wagging finger" lie that when Al Gore ran for the seat—I took a "pass" on the presidential vote box. That was a single lie done for a hell of a lot of personal reasons by a sitting president. I understood that! But, a 'penalty' had to be issued because adultery is a crime under the Uniformed Code of Military Justice. So why should a "white-collar" leader get off scot-free? He should not.
I oppose compulsive liars, because all my life I have been taught by others I respect not to be one. It is too damn easy to be a liar. Discipline is harder to hold on to and it is valuable in a leader.
[Could it be, President Donald Trump is 'addicted' to lying, because he thinks his supporters NEED him to lie? A perverted symbiotic relationship of some sort?]
No one in a right mind should have confidence in a "repeat" lying president. It can never be a good look or a great fit. And, there is a higher probability that a liar will not support the country when the chips are down and s/he is needed the most!
There is nothing to consider about Trump's lying to nearly everybody and him choosing criminal "appearing" strategies over acts which lead to justice being rendered. None of you accept it from people in your personal life, so those who 'ponder' it online can miss me with that.
At the time, I thought that when Trump's participation as a birther was brought to the forefront he would lose support in the GOP primaries and certainly in the general election. But it turned out that a good chunk of his supporters were happy he had been a birther.
That is one of the reasons I have been so critical of his supporters. Let's face it, they have a lot to answer for.
Trump lied. To his supporters and moreso to his critics when he 'swore' he would be presidenti al—not! And, his 'bad-form' tweeting is unceasing .
‘Too inconvenient’: Trump goes rogue on phone security
The president has kept features at risk for hacking and resisted efforts by staff to inspect the phones he uses for tweeting. By ELIANA JOHNSON , EMILY STEPHENSON and DANIEL LIPPMAN 05/21/2018 07:00 PM EDT
Source :
Note the date on the article above: 05/21/2018. I ask everybody here: IS THAT PRESIDENTIAL? IS IT PRESIDENTIAL ? If that is presidential, then conservative talk jocks and television analysts need to apologize to every hacker out there for simply doing their 'job' to gather data from their unsuspecting clients! /s Because "Mr. President" is the epitome of an unsecured line.
No one has poorly treated Donald Trump. Trump does and says what he wants and that is not what we need in a leader! As for his so-called "supporters" well the evidence speaks volumes about them too!
Then you would hate ALL the presidents except maybe with Washington. I haven't seen a lie Washington told reported anywhere....
Hell even Abraham Lincoln was a well proven liar when the situation called for it.......
And the office of president can never be completely transparent, if it was then he wouldn't be defending the nation, transparency by a president is a pipe dream.
EVERYONE should get off their moral high horses.......
You hate T-rump for your perceptions of his lying, then what say you over President Obama's repeated proven lies? You despise him as much as you claim to despise T-rump?
Do I need to post the video compilation of Obama's lies? (for those who will always claim he never lied about anything)
I agree 100% It's why I never had confidence in any president. (and yes Ronnie did tell a few tall ones, not as many as the Democrats claim but not as few as the Republicans claim either...
And the ones that do get hammered by the ones that don't.
You nailed it sweetie.... (as long as you throw in twitter and instagram)
For millions of Americans like myself and most of my friends, Trump is a million percent improvement over Hussein Obama.
im thankful Trump is our President to take on the corrupt and evil Washington Establishment of both political parties.
NO, because he doesn't lie like Trump does. What the hell is wrong with people?
It is OBVIOUS that Trump lies. All the time. THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG WITH HIM. That is the point. We have to pretend that these absurd conversations (from his supporters) are reasonable, and it is a good reason there is so much strife in the country. Trump supporters play deaf dumb and blind.
Oh, so then it is ok for a democrat to lie like a rug, but not a republican.
Got it..... (not a hint of bias there /s)
I think you just gave a pretty good demonstration of what is wrong.....
Moral Relativism, I like him so his lies are good, I don't like him so his lies are BAD!.
Trump's administration is more corrupt than any in living memory. If you were truly anti-corruption, you wouldn't be singing Trump's praises.
Washington has been a cesspool for decadesprior to Trump. Nothing Trump has done is as bad as the bureaucrats and establishment politicians of both parties
I sincerely doubt there are "millions" like yourself. I know for a fact that there are many millions more Americans who vehemently disagree with you and would consider your opinions to only be shared by those who've been denied access to most of their mental faculties.
That is because you have blinded yourself to any and all opinions other than those you subscribe to. Your own prejudices are keeping you from reality.
No, it's because I can't imagine very many people ascribe to LFoD's extremist opinions about US sovereignty. Not many people believe social security and Medicare are "Stalinist statist abominations!". Most accept them as benefits the US adopted to help the elderly and disabled, not some Stalinist plot to overthrow American independence.
[Removed]
[deleted]
@ 4.1.9 Nowhere Man
You can calmly labor to find a middle-ground-bottom for lumping all Presidents that have ever served this great nation into some poor fool's understanding of semblance ; but, folks wise to details, context, and a sense of truth-north will determine throughout this thread that President Donald Trump is that rare specimen that takes the entire sphere of the world for his special kind of foolish pleasure and display.
And you completely missed the point.
Now, your moral relativism shows..... My side is good your side is bad....
ALL LIES ARE BAD!
What is so difficult for people to understand?
Moreover, not all "scandals" are equal either. Some lies and scandals are specious and lacking in substance. Mining deeper into specious "scandals" would be a gross distraction from our more recent problem that President Donald J. Trump is acting more "un-American" even as we comment.
well the trump foundation goes down in flames. and yet here we see , member after member seem to disregard another fact of something with the trump name being removed because of a action that is based on dishonesty.
and then i read some comments and wonder how many of these members would allow this type of man in there personal day to day life, i would guess not many. I cant image some of these members would not judge this man if he was dating someone close to them. I cant imagine these same members would take out a business loan and do a joint venture with this man after doing a portfolio background. I cant imagine some of these members would actually want to work with a guy in an office setting day to day.
so i see alot of lying and bullshitting going on here. And a lot of excuses and disregard of this mans conduct because it is not on a personal level.
and as a older person, i don't have the tolerance for those type of people in my day to day life any more. And now i am convinced that this man obtained a hidden piece of trickery in a lot of folks. somehow having them disregard their personal value system so that they can support something just to do so, not because they know it is the right thing to do.
Now that's a neat trick and after viewing some of the members comments here. i think of the movie quote in the usual suspects by Roger "Verbal" Kint: The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
and i just feel sorry for these members and also a sense of sadness and embarrassment. I get its your choice to support and feel the way you want too. I guess i just have never seen in my lifetime people/ members have such a need to disregard logic in such a way as to make them look less then educated in support of someone who was betting on such a thing.
please dont respond with the political this side or that side. it is just a observation when reading some comments. and then thinking about if some of these same members REALLY REALLY WOULD ALLOW this type of man in their day to day and I reached the conclusion most wouldn't.
Sometimes, I truly feel this is the abstract state of play when holding Trump discussions:
A Trump poker session.
Seems to me.....In Rio Bravo, The Comancheros and The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance.....Mr. Wayne portrayed a "LAW man" or a "LAW maker".
These days....those types are just SHOT in the back for doing the right thing !
Great Comparison there John ! (face palm)
Kinda like what the Media does to Trump.....without the GUN !
President Lyndon B. Johnson:
Of all his accomplishments, those with the most immediate—and at the same time, the most far-reaching—effect were the civil rights acts of the 1960s.
Kennedy had proposed a law that would have outlawed discrimination in public accommodations, but it never got to the floor of either the House or Senate. Johnson urged Congress to pass it as a memorial to the fallen leader, and he put the full muscle of his administration behind his plea.
"We have talked long enough in this country about civil rights ," he told Congress in his first speech as President. "We have talked for one hundred years or more. It is now time to write the next chapter and write it in the books of law." Eventually, the key to passing the measure was Senator Everett Dirksen, the Republican leader from Illinois. Only Dirksen had the clout to persuade his fellow Republicans to vote to break a filibuster being staged by opposition Southerners. Dirksen was not known for any particular interest in civil rights—but he was known to be highly susceptible to flattery. So Johnson—at his persuasive best, or his shameless worst, depending on how you look at it—went to work. And the Texas President assured the Illinois senator that if he would take the leadership in getting the bill passed, Illinois school children would hereafter know only two names to honor—Abraham Lincoln and Everett Dirksen. Finally, Dirksen announced his recognition of an idea whose time had come. The bill passed. That was in 1964.
In 1965, the issue was voting rights . Many southern states had routinely been denying blacks , through a series of subterfuges, their constitutional rights . And now black determination and white southern resistance were at a flash point.
Johnson went before Congress to ask for legislation that would put the force of law behind those constitutional rights, appropriating the words of the civil rights movement itself, "We Shall Overcome" the crippling legacy of bigotry and injustice. It was the most impassioned speech of his career.
When the measure passed, Johnson was asked by reporters how he squared his new concern for civil rights with the fact that he had voted against civil rights proposals when he was in the Congress.
"I did not have the responsibility then that I have now," he answered, "and I did not feel its importance as I now do. But I am going to do everything I can to right the wrongs of the past, no matter how many mistakes I may once have made."
At the end of his administration, his cabinet gave him a desk blotter on which were inscribed the titles of 300 major laws passed under his leadership. And those were just the tip of the iceberg. In all, there were a thousand laws of the Great Society.
SOURCE: Prologue Magazine LBJ: Still Casting a Long Shadow Summer 2008, Vol. 40, No. 2 By Harry Middleton
© 2008 by Harry Middleton
True. Is this your argument that LBJ was not a racist?
Taking one of many quotes from TiG @ 3.3.12 :
Hard to imagine a politician acting in a manner that is beneficial to the politician and spinning it for public consumption. And yes the private stuff is all 'alleged' so you are free to ignore it all and simply believe LBJ was what you want him to be. Generally I recommend following ALL the evidence to where it leads, but not everyone feels comfortable doing that.
Again, I am not "arguing" anything about LBJ's past attitudes, his manner of speaking, or his "tendencies." Here, I am only presenting the man LBJ grew to be once he stepped up to fulfill his role as President and Leader. My focus is on what LBJ accomplished for minorities and poor people.
We extend 'grace' and 'repentance' to the worse of prisoners when they straighten up and 'fly right.' We certainly better do the same for people who have control over us when they do better!
Personally, I could not give one iota about the harm a man or woman causes as long as it can be made amends of when such folks acquire enough power and influence to 'self-correct.'
A politician is what our president and leaders are. As such, these men will of necessity 'wear' multiple personas. Ultimately, how a politician is judged is based on the good accomplished for the people served overall.
Oh, I thought you were trying to argue that LBJ was not a racist.
Short answer: "Nope."
Long answer:
3.3.7 CB replied to livefreeordie @ 3.3.5 yesterday
What the heaven does this mean, LFoD? Care to share?
My intention was to have LFOD explain what @ 3.3.5 meant in context to him. (That has not occurred up to now.)
In addition, LBJ as president became a changed man and that matters .
LBJ addresses Congress following JFK's assassination
Address Before a Joint Session of the Congress
November 27, 1963
Mr. Speaker, Mr. President, Members of the House, Members of the Senate, my fellow Americans:
All I have I would have given gladly not to be standing here today.
The greatest leader of our time has been struck down by the foulest deed of our time. Today John Fitzgerald Kennedy lives on in the immortal words and works that he left behind. He lives on in the mind and memories of mankind. He lives on in the hearts of his countrymen.
No words are sad enough to express our sense of loss. No words are strong enough to express our determination to continue the forward thrust of America that he began.
The dream of conquering the vastness of space--the dream of partnership across the Atlantic--and across the Pacific as well--the dream of a Peace Corps in less developed nations--the dream of education for all of our children--the dream of jobs for all who seek them and need them--the dream of care for our elderly--the dream of an all-out attack on mental illness--and above all, the dream of equal rights for all Americans, whatever their race or color--these and other American dreams have been vitalized by his drive and by his dedication.
And now the ideas and the ideals which he so nobly represented must and will be translated into effective action.
. . . .
And let all know we will extend no special privilege and impose no persecution. We will carry on the fight against poverty and misery, and disease and ignorance, in other lands and in our own.
We will serve all the Nation, not one section or one sector, or one group, but all Americans. These are the United States--a united people with a united purpose.
Our American unity does not depend upon unanimity. We have differences; but now, as in the past, we can derive from those differences strength, not weakness, wisdom, not despair. Both as a people and a government, we can unite upon a program, a program which is wise and just, enlightened and constructive.
For 32 years Capitol Hill has been my home. I have shared many moments of pride with you, pride in the ability of the Congress of the United States to act, to meet any crisis, to distill from our differences strong programs of national action.
An assassin's bullet has thrust upon me the awesome burden of the Presidency. I am here today to say I need your help; I cannot bear this burden alone. I need the help of all Americans, and all America. This Nation has experienced a profound shock, and in this critical moment, it is our duty, yours and mine, as the Government of the United States, to do away with uncertainty and doubt and delay, and to show that we are capable of decisive action; that from the brutal loss of our leader we will derive not weakness, but strength; that we can and will act and act now.
From this chamber of representative government, let all the world know and none misunderstand that I rededicate this Government to the unswerving support of the United Nations, to the honorable and determined execution of our commitments to our allies, to the maintenance of military strength second to none, to the defense of the strength and the stability of the dollar, to the expansion of our foreign trade, to the reinforcement of our programs of mutual assistance and cooperation in Asia and Africa, and to our Alliance for Progress in this hemisphere.
On the 20th day of January, in 1961, John F. Kennedy told his countrymen that our national work would not be finished "in the first thousand days, nor in the life of this administration, nor even perhaps in our lifetime on this planet. But," he said, "let us begin."
Today, in this moment of new resolve, I would say to all my fellow Americans, let us continue.
This is our challenge--not to hesitate, not to pause, not to turn about and linger over this evil moment, but to continue on our course so that we may fulfill the destiny that history has set for us. Our most immediate tasks are here on this Hill.
First , no memorial oration or eulogy could more eloquently honor President Kennedy's memory than the earliest possible passage of the civil rights bill for which he fought so long. We have talked long enough in this country about equal rights. We have talked for one hundred years or more. It is time now to write the next chapter, and to write it in the books of law.
I urge you again, as I did in 1957 and again in 1960, to enact a civil rights law so that we can move forward to eliminate from this Nation every trace of discrimination and oppression that is based upon race or color. There could be no greater source of strength to this Nation both at home and abroad.
. . . .
In short, this is no time for delay. It is a time for action--strong, forward-looking action on the pending education bills to help bring the light of learning to every home and hamlet in America--strong, forward-looking action on youth employment opportunities; strong, forward-looking action on the pending foreign aid bill, making clear that we are not forfeiting our responsibilities to this hemisphere or to the world, nor erasing Executive flexibility in the conduct of our foreign affairs--and strong, prompt, and forward-looking action on the remaining appropriation bills.
I n this new spirit of action, the Congress can expect the full cooperation and support of the executive branch . . . .
The need is here. The need is now. I ask your help.
We meet in grief, but let us also meet in renewed dedication and renewed vigor. Let us meet in action, in tolerance, and in mutual understanding. John Kennedy's death commands what his life conveyed--that America must move forward. The time has come for Americans of all races and creeds and political beliefs to understand and to respect one another. So let us put an end to the teaching and the preaching of hate and evil and violence. Let us turn away from the fanatics of the far left and the far right, from the apostles of bitterness and bigotry, from those defiant of law, and those who pour venom into our Nation's bloodstream.
. . . .
SOURCE:
The Whistle-Stop Tour (section III.)
It was the fall of 1964. The November presidential election was looming as parts of the country still seethed over the Civil Rights Act President Lyndon Baines Johnson had signed into law just a few months earlier.
The new legislation eliminated the so-called "Jim Crow" laws and guaranteed blacks access to all public accommodations and the right to equal employment opportunities.
Many white southerners and politicians considered the law an assault on their way of life. Southern Democrats threatened to bolt as racial politics threatened
to splinter the party and cost Mr. Johnson the election.
It was during this tumultuous time that Lady Bird Johnson showed the country just how much she could contribute to her husband's presidency. In a four-day, 1,628-mile campaign trip aboard a train dubbed the Lady Bird Special , the First Lady traveled through eight southern states that were in such racial turmoil it had been deemed unsafe for President Johnson to go there himself.
The whistle-stop tour was key to garnering support for the president among rural southerners, and it propelled Lady Bird into the spotlight as an activist First Lady.
Born and raised in the deep, traditional South, Lady Bird understood the shock felt by southerners as they saw their lives altered by a distant government in Washington. She hoped to ease their anger and unrest by showing them that the end of segregation would improve the economic condition of the South and help move it into the modern world.
Lady Bird had grown up as a white woman of privilege accustomed to black maids whose husbands worked her father's fields and whose children were her young playmates. As she contemplated her campaign in the South, Lady Bird felt the conflict between her loyalty to her southern roots and her belief in her husband's vision.
"I knew the Civil Rights Act was right and I didn't mind saying so," Lady Bird said, "but I also loved the South and didn't want it used as the whipping boy of the Democratic party."
This compassion for southern tradition allowed Lady Bird to advocate her husband's political goals and defend the idea of civil rights without alienating the southern voters.
. . . .
On September 11, Lady Bird called every governor, senator and congressman in the eight southern states she planned to visit. Perceived by the public as soft and gracious, Lady Bird used those perceptions to attract the southern politicians to her train. "I'm thinking of coming down and campaigning in your state and I'd love your advice," Lady Bird would tell them in her soft southern drawl.
While most of her calls were successful, several politicians turned down Lady Bird's invitation to join her on the Lady Bird Special. Among those who refused were Sen. Willis Robertson of Virginia, Sen. Strom Thurmond of South Carolina, Governor Dick Russell of Georgia, North Carolina governor nominee Dan Moore, and Louisiana governor John McKeithen. Lady Bird did not bother to call Alabama governor George Wallace, the country's most vehement opponent to civil rights. "There was no use in calling Governor George Wallace," she said in her diary. "I doubt it would even be courteous to do so."
On October 6, Lady Bird boarded the 19-car train with her husband, and embarked on her four-day whistle-stop tour. After the 15-minute ride to Alexandria, Va., the president disembarked from the Lady Bird Special , and the First Lady was on her own. At each stop, 15 hostesses would escort local politicians and supporters of President Johnson on to the train for a brief meeting with the First Lady and to pose for photos.
. . . .
As she had expected, but had hoped to avoid, Lady Bird encountered angry southerners protesting her husband and his civil rights agenda. She continually found herself having to placate people who called her husband a "nigger-lover" without condoning their racism. As she pulled into Richmond, Va., Lady Bird was greeted by a big banner that read "Fly Away Lady Bird. Here in Richmond, Barry is the Cat's Meow." In Columbia, South Carolina, people booed and heckled Lady Bird during her speech so that she could not be heard. The state hosts were unable to quiet the hecklers, but with a raised, white-gloved hand and a firm voice, Lady Bird silenced the crowd .
"This is a country of many viewpoints," she told the Columbia crowd. "I respect your right to express your own. Now it is my turn to express mine. Thank you."
. . . .
As the Lady Bird Special crossed into northern Florida, the Secret Service received an anonymous report that the train might be bombed. FBI and other law enforcement officers swept a 7-mile bridge that the train was scheduled to cross, while a security helicopter and several boats escorted the train across the bridge.
. . . .
As the Lady Bird Special pulled into New Orleans on Oct. 9, a huge multiracial crowd joined President Johnson in meeting Lady Bird at the end of her tour.
Mr. Johnson was there to thank her for her tireless and courageous efforts. In four days, Lady Bird had made 47 speeches in 47 towns to approximately 500,000 southerners.
Source: