This truly breaks my heart. These people fought, and died (far more than we did) for the same cause, and because of a president who is the entire world's bitch, they are being hung out to dry. They weren't at Normandy, but given their bravery and trust in the current fight, they would have gladly been part of the first wave at Omaha. We are turning our backs on the closest and best allies we have in the region, and doing it after they shed their blood for our cause. Can't blame them if they never trust us again.
I happen to agree with many on the left here about abandoning the Kurds who did most of the dying for us in this President's successful war against ISIS. That being said, I do find it a bit odd that the same people who never raised a peep when Iraq (a war that was won and handed over to a new administration) was abandoned? May I ask if your heart was broken when we abandoned the South Vietnamese?
He is responsible for any resurgence of ISIS and Kurd deaths. But the worst consequence of this will mean nobody, and I mean NOBODY in the world will trust the US and go with them knowing they can be tossed out like that. This is making a lot of people sick to their stomachs it is such a disgusting betrayal. A lot of vets going to be pissing on republican graves, my son is absolutely furious, he worked with Kurds on his deployment.
Yes to your question..... and I was 12 when we left.
The visions of Huey's pulling people off the roof of the American Embassy are still there after all this time.
In 1982 on my first deployment it was my turn. We were pulling Vietnamese "boat people" out of the water. The Enterprise and her escorts pulled over 200 out of the water during our transit of the South China Sea.
Yes to your question..... and I was 12 when we left.
I was 21 and I may have been fortunate not get called in the draft as it was known in the early 70's. I remember those scenes as well. Your answer tells me you are somewhat consistent. The full answer which I had hoped the author would have responded to requires one to demand that Nixon had done what is now being demanded of Trump.
In other words if you believe that the US stand by its allies, you must demand it consistently.
I happen to agree with many on the left here about abandoning the Kurds who did most of the dying for us in this President's successful war against ISIS. That being said, I do find it a bit odd that the same people who never raised a peep when Iraq (a war that was won and handed over to a new administration) was abandoned? May I ask if your heart was broken when we abandoned the South Vietnamese?
Where's Europe? Where's NATO? Where's the United Nations? Why is this only about the United States?
The United States abandoning Cambodia was actually worse than abandoning South Vietnam. In the current situation what is happening to the Kurds parallels what happened to the Cambodians.
So, what would a Democratic President do to confront Turkey? Would a Democratic President follow Lyndon Johnson's example and escalate the conflict? Why do we want another Vietnam where the Kurds become a proxy in a geopolitical confrontation between the United States and an ideological adversary? The United States was politically fighting communism in Vietnam; the United States wasn't fighting North Vietnam. Vietnam should have taught the United States the lesson that the military simply cannot defeat an ideology.
It seems rather ironic that the United States has been providing humanitarian aid to Turkey to pay for operating Syrian refugee camps. And the purpose for those refugee camps seems to be about controlling the migration of Syrian refugees to Europe. Turkey provided air bases for use by the United States for combat missions into Syria. And Turkey has been the target of a large number of terrorist attacks by ISIS; Turkey has responded with military attacks on ISIS in Syria. So, Turkey has been an ally of the United States in the fight against ISIS, too. Both Turkey and the Kurds have been better allies to the United States than has NATO or Europe.
Where's Europe? Where's NATO? Where's the United Nations? Why is this only about the United States?
He is responsible for any resurgence of ISIS and Kurd deaths. But the worst consequence of this will mean nobody, and I mean NOBODY in the world will trust the US and go with them knowing they can be tossed out like that. This is making a lot of people sick to their stomachs it is such a disgusting betrayal. A lot of vets going to be pissing on republican graves, my son is absolutely furious, he worked with Kurds on his deployment.
The Kurds were fighting ISIS to protect their own territory before the United States became involved. The Kurds didn't join the United States in the fight against ISIS; it was the United States that joined the Kurds.
Turkey has been a ally of the United States in the fight against ISIS, too.
Europe pressed Turkey to hold Syrian refugees in camps on its border, exert more control over the refugee flotillas from Turkey to Greece, and do more to lessen the flow of refugees into Europe. In fact, Erdogan has threatened Europe with closing the refugee camps and opening the gates for more Syrian refugees migrating into Europe. Europe is protecting its self interest by turning a blind eye on Turkey's incursion into northern Syria to attack the Kurds.
If the United States confronts Turkey and the flow of refugees migrating to Europe increases, who will Europe blame? Europe will be pressing the United States to remove Assad, end the civil war, and stop the flow of refugees to Europe. But that would put the United States in direct conflict with Russia. Europe doesn't want to be in direct conflict with Russia; Russia is a trading partner with Europe.
Europe has set the stage for another dirty little war just as they did in Vietnam. The United States doesn't need to fight another Vietnam.
I burned my draft card in 73 and started smoking a lot of weed to keep from killing those that were eradicating their domestic political enemies, mostly young white and black males, by prolonging a war we had lost in 68.
You make all the right points, unfortunately the President has complained about that already and as we all are constantly reminded - he's always wrong.
So, what would a Democratic President do to confront Turkey?
You won't get a response to that one other than by me. Bill Clinton might have looked to arrange a kind of treaty between Turkey and the Kurdish factions. You know how that would go. Obama would simply tell the Kurds what he told the Syrian rebels - "We are with you! I can only assume that the last minutes of life of a dying Syrian rebel was spent thinking Obama is with me.
Would a Democratic President follow Lyndon Johnson's example and escalate the conflict?
You mean micro manage the conflict from the oval office. I can see Hillary Clinton doing that. She was a hawk.
Why do we want another Vietnam where the Kurds become a proxy in a geopolitical confrontation between the United States and an ideological adversary?
We should never repeat Vietnam. If the US gets into a war IT MUST PREVAIL!
The United States was politically fighting communism in Vietnam; the United States wasn't fighting North Vietnam. Vietnam should have taught the United States the lesson that the military simply cannot defeat an ideology.
The North should have been invaded!!!
So, Turkey has been an ally of the United States in the fight against ISIS, too. Both Turkey and the Kurds have been better allies to the United States than has NATO or Europe.
I have to agree. Socialist Europe has depended on the US military since WWII. Those countries no longer have room in their entitlement driven budgets for much military spending.
Where's Europe? Where's NATO? Where's the United Nations? Why is this only about the United States?
Like the Marshal in the iconic western "High Noon" Trump has taken off the tin star and cast into the sand. Some are simply unworthy of the bravery & sacrifice. Europe fits that category.
That is almost funny coming from him. He was giving money to ISIS. Now with the prisons not being watched, of course, there will be more "Refugees", mostly ISIS.
How about we stop giving him his 50 Billion a year plus our war machines? I mean who is wagging the dog?
I'm not defending what the President did nor am I defending what Turkey did. The last two American Presidents have but one thing in common - they were both bewildered with how to get out of the middle east. Turkey joined NATO because it shared a border with the Soviet Union. They are now a well armed full fledged member of NATO. The problem for them is the nasty neighborhood on their southern border. That's the way to look at it.
More Trumpian crap. Hell, at least ten cities are considering suing Trump for failure to pay for the security provided for his ' rallies. '
As far as the Kurds--or anyone else for that matter. To somehow get into a position where you have dealings or contact with 'The Stable Genius Trump', in the end you will be burned.
More importantly. Putin smiles. American prestige loses. And the Trump will never be forced to testify under oath. The curse of MAGA is now America's curse.
Former Ku Klux Klan leader David Duke is calling Donald Trump's electoral victory "one of the most exciting nights of my life."
Duke, a white nationalist who unsuccessfully ran for Louisiana Senate, tweeted early Wednesday that his supporters played a major part in paving Trump's road to the presidency.
"Make no mistake about it, our people have played a HUGE role in electing Trump!" he wrote.
Well, Buzz, you do know our good friends the Turks have just about chased out every Jew from their country. The few that are left are being treated like second class citizens, which is why so many of them have moved to Isreal.
What's the next brilliant thing he's going to do? Hang Israel out to dry as well?
I'm sure that now that our sleazebag fuhrer has stabbed one of our best allies in the back, other allies are thinking the same thing. Allies-- and potential allies-- are now having second thoughts about risking their live in hopes that the U.S. will stick to its word (about backing them up).
In fact, I came across that notion in an article 2 days ago:
(Actually I had wanted to seed it but couldn't-- I could only see the headline as the site informed me that I had "used up my free articles for the month" Maybe someone else can seed it?)
But then there's this...something that certainly wouldn't endear Erdogan towards the Jewish state:
Iraq bans Israeli flags after Kurds wave them at independence rallies
Iraqi Kurds fly an Israeli flag and Kurdish flags during an event to urge people to vote in the upcoming independence referendum in Erbil, the capital of the autonomous Kurdish region of northern Iraq, on September 16, 2017. (AFP/Safin Hamed)
The Iraqi parliament voted on Tuesday to criminalize the flying of Israeli flags after the banners were held aloft at a number of Kurdish independence rallies ahead of a referendum in September.
Israel has been among the only countries to openly support an independent Kurdish state , and many Kurds have welcomed the support , drawing accusations from Arab leaders that the referendum was a Zionist plot.( Link)
His comment is devoid of any knowledge it something a 5-year-old would say.
Turkey didn't help us at Normandy in fact Turkey finally entered WWII in Feb. 1945 and never were engaged in any combat. They were to busy suppressing the Kurds to help.
The one thing that the Turks did do was fight against us in WWI...Perhaps the stable genius should talk to the Aussies and Kiwis. They certainly could give him a history lesson on Turkey.
Well, there are several people commenting on NT as we speak-- who are jumping through hoops in their attempts to justify it..You can read their comments in several articles on the subject.
(One rather stupid strategy I've seen here is calling other NT users names-- accusing the people who say the U.S. should remain in Syria of being . . . "neo-cons"!
This truly breaks my heart. These people fought, and died (far more than we did) for the same cause, and because of a president who is the entire world's bitch, they are being hung out to dry. They weren't at Normandy, but given their bravery and trust in the current fight, they would have gladly been part of the first wave at Omaha. We are turning our backs on the closest and best allies we have in the region, and doing it after they shed their blood for our cause. Can't blame them if they never trust us again.
Us or the Kurds?
The Chinese MAGA hat base.
I don't think anyone will trust us again, at least not while Trump is at the helm.
Why should they?
I certainly would not. I expect to see an increase of violence against Americans living or working overseas.
I happen to agree with many on the left here about abandoning the Kurds who did most of the dying for us in this President's successful war against ISIS. That being said, I do find it a bit odd that the same people who never raised a peep when Iraq (a war that was won and handed over to a new administration) was abandoned? May I ask if your heart was broken when we abandoned the South Vietnamese?
He is responsible for any resurgence of ISIS and Kurd deaths. But the worst consequence of this will mean nobody, and I mean NOBODY in the world will trust the US and go with them knowing they can be tossed out like that. This is making a lot of people sick to their stomachs it is such a disgusting betrayal. A lot of vets going to be pissing on republican graves, my son is absolutely furious, he worked with Kurds on his deployment.
Yes to your question..... and I was 12 when we left.
The visions of Huey's pulling people off the roof of the American Embassy are still there after all this time.
In 1982 on my first deployment it was my turn. We were pulling Vietnamese "boat people" out of the water. The Enterprise and her escorts pulled over 200 out of the water during our transit of the South China Sea.
I get to say that and be consistent. I was against Obama pulling out for the same reasons. Your outrage seems to be reserved for Trump only!
I was 21 and I may have been fortunate not get called in the draft as it was known in the early 70's. I remember those scenes as well. Your answer tells me you are somewhat consistent. The full answer which I had hoped the author would have responded to requires one to demand that Nixon had done what is now being demanded of Trump.
In other words if you believe that the US stand by its allies, you must demand it consistently.
I think anyone with a draft card was dancing in the streets........ Left and right.
It's been downhill ever since.
Where's Europe? Where's NATO? Where's the United Nations? Why is this only about the United States?
The United States abandoning Cambodia was actually worse than abandoning South Vietnam. In the current situation what is happening to the Kurds parallels what happened to the Cambodians.
So, what would a Democratic President do to confront Turkey? Would a Democratic President follow Lyndon Johnson's example and escalate the conflict? Why do we want another Vietnam where the Kurds become a proxy in a geopolitical confrontation between the United States and an ideological adversary? The United States was politically fighting communism in Vietnam; the United States wasn't fighting North Vietnam. Vietnam should have taught the United States the lesson that the military simply cannot defeat an ideology.
It seems rather ironic that the United States has been providing humanitarian aid to Turkey to pay for operating Syrian refugee camps. And the purpose for those refugee camps seems to be about controlling the migration of Syrian refugees to Europe. Turkey provided air bases for use by the United States for combat missions into Syria. And Turkey has been the target of a large number of terrorist attacks by ISIS; Turkey has responded with military attacks on ISIS in Syria. So, Turkey has been an ally of the United States in the fight against ISIS, too. Both Turkey and the Kurds have been better allies to the United States than has NATO or Europe.
Where's Europe? Where's NATO? Where's the United Nations? Why is this only about the United States?
The Kurds were fighting ISIS to protect their own territory before the United States became involved. The Kurds didn't join the United States in the fight against ISIS; it was the United States that joined the Kurds.
Turkey has been a ally of the United States in the fight against ISIS, too.
Europe pressed Turkey to hold Syrian refugees in camps on its border, exert more control over the refugee flotillas from Turkey to Greece, and do more to lessen the flow of refugees into Europe. In fact, Erdogan has threatened Europe with closing the refugee camps and opening the gates for more Syrian refugees migrating into Europe. Europe is protecting its self interest by turning a blind eye on Turkey's incursion into northern Syria to attack the Kurds.
If the United States confronts Turkey and the flow of refugees migrating to Europe increases, who will Europe blame? Europe will be pressing the United States to remove Assad, end the civil war, and stop the flow of refugees to Europe. But that would put the United States in direct conflict with Russia. Europe doesn't want to be in direct conflict with Russia; Russia is a trading partner with Europe.
Europe has set the stage for another dirty little war just as they did in Vietnam. The United States doesn't need to fight another Vietnam.
I burned my draft card in 73 and started smoking a lot of weed to keep from killing those that were eradicating their domestic political enemies, mostly young white and black males, by prolonging a war we had lost in 68.
You make all the right points, unfortunately the President has complained about that already and as we all are constantly reminded - he's always wrong.
So, what would a Democratic President do to confront Turkey?
You won't get a response to that one other than by me. Bill Clinton might have looked to arrange a kind of treaty between Turkey and the Kurdish factions. You know how that would go. Obama would simply tell the Kurds what he told the Syrian rebels - "We are with you! I can only assume that the last minutes of life of a dying Syrian rebel was spent thinking Obama is with me.
Would a Democratic President follow Lyndon Johnson's example and escalate the conflict?
You mean micro manage the conflict from the oval office. I can see Hillary Clinton doing that. She was a hawk.
Why do we want another Vietnam where the Kurds become a proxy in a geopolitical confrontation between the United States and an ideological adversary?
We should never repeat Vietnam. If the US gets into a war IT MUST PREVAIL!
The United States was politically fighting communism in Vietnam; the United States wasn't fighting North Vietnam. Vietnam should have taught the United States the lesson that the military simply cannot defeat an ideology.
The North should have been invaded!!!
So, Turkey has been an ally of the United States in the fight against ISIS, too. Both Turkey and the Kurds have been better allies to the United States than has NATO or Europe.
I have to agree. Socialist Europe has depended on the US military since WWII. Those countries no longer have room in their entitlement driven budgets for much military spending.
Where's Europe? Where's NATO? Where's the United Nations? Why is this only about the United States?
Like the Marshal in the iconic western "High Noon" Trump has taken off the tin star and cast into the sand. Some are simply unworthy of the bravery & sacrifice. Europe fits that category.
Erdogan Threatens To ‘Open the Doors’ to Europe for Refugees if criticisms continue.
My number was in the 300's (my birthday as drawn). I didn't seek any deferment.
Thanks for the attempted smear
Middle Eastern Refugees have already been flooding Europe!
Thanks for the attempted smear
Your're welcome!
Yes, we have watched for a while
Another street prayer in Paris!
Vic,
That is almost funny coming from him. He was giving money to ISIS. Now with the prisons not being watched, of course, there will be more "Refugees", mostly ISIS.
How about we stop giving him his 50 Billion a year plus our war machines? I mean who is wagging the dog?
You mean expel Turkey from NATO? Maybe that should have been done when he dismantled all of Turkey's democratic process?
There are people who feel that Turkey should be expelled from NATO-- but its a tough call.
Here are few resources on Twitter (I am book marking them as a good source for items to seed on NT):
#turkeyoutofnato --> LINK
See also
#boycotturkey ---> LINK
#TurkeyIsNotOurFriend ---> LINK
I'm not defending what the President did nor am I defending what Turkey did. The last two American Presidents have but one thing in common - they were both bewildered with how to get out of the middle east. Turkey joined NATO because it shared a border with the Soviet Union. They are now a well armed full fledged member of NATO. The problem for them is the nasty neighborhood on their southern border. That's the way to look at it.
Thank your son from me (ret Army) for his service.
My draft card says IH and I was in college during the escape from Saigon.
Had friends that didn't come back and friends who came back forever changed.
I marched against Nam and still have my framed draft card (didn't burn it).
Have trained many soldiers in the martial arts and don't feel hypocritical.
Nam was a stupid war that we couldn't win no matter the evening body count on TV.
As well as their neighbour just a bit south of that (Israel).
More Trumpian crap. Hell, at least ten cities are considering suing Trump for failure to pay for the security provided for his ' rallies. '
As far as the Kurds--or anyone else for that matter. To somehow get into a position where you have dealings or contact with 'The Stable Genius Trump', in the end you will be burned.
More importantly. Putin smiles. American prestige loses. And the Trump will never be forced to testify under oath. The curse of MAGA is now America's curse.
Any city allowing a rally should demand money up front knowing his penchant for not paying his bills and screwing vendors over.
What's the next brilliant thing he's going to do? Hang Israel out to dry as well? Maybe not, because there were Jews who died on the Normandy beaches.
Like he gives a shit, there are more Neo-Nazis that support him than Jews so fuck the Jews.
His line of thinking is not hard.
Like he gives a shit, there are more Neo-Nazis that support him
And he's grateful for their support!
The Neo-nazis were big fans of this sleaze-bag from the get-go:
David Duke: Trump win a great victory for 'our people'
Former Ku Klux Klan leader David Duke is calling Donald Trump's electoral victory "one of the most exciting nights of my life."
Duke, a white nationalist who unsuccessfully ran for Louisiana Senate, tweeted early Wednesday that his supporters played a major part in paving Trump's road to the presidency.
"Make no mistake about it, our people have played a HUGE role in electing Trump!" he wrote.
Well, Buzz, you do know our good friends the Turks have just about chased out every Jew from their country. The few that are left are being treated like second class citizens, which is why so many of them have moved to Isreal.
I'm sure that now that our sleazebag fuhrer has stabbed one of our best allies in the back, other allies are thinking the same thing. Allies-- and potential allies-- are now having second thoughts about risking their live in hopes that the U.S. will stick to its word (about backing them up).
In fact, I came across that notion in an article 2 days ago:
Israelis Watch U.S. Abandon Kurds, and Worry: Who’s Next?
(Actually I had wanted to seed it but couldn't-- I could only see the headline as the site informed me that I had "used up my free articles for the month" Maybe someone else can seed it?)
Strange-- I just clicked on that link and now it lets me gain access-- I will see if I can seed that article.
Buzz.... If there is a Trump property in Israel, then there is nothing to worry about.
Israel named a neighbourhood after him, and there is a big sign that says "Trump", but he doesn't own it.
50:50 proposition then Buzz!
a big sign that says "Trump",
But then there's this...something that certainly wouldn't endear Erdogan towards the Jewish state:
Iraq bans Israeli flags after Kurds wave them at independence rallies
Iraqi Kurds fly an Israeli flag and Kurdish flags during an event to urge people to vote in the upcoming independence referendum in Erbil, the capital of the autonomous Kurdish region of northern Iraq, on September 16, 2017. (AFP/Safin Hamed)
The Iraqi parliament voted on Tuesday to criminalize the flying of Israeli flags after the banners were held aloft at a number of Kurdish independence rallies ahead of a referendum in September.
Israel has been among the only countries to openly support an independent Kurdish state , and many Kurds have welcomed the support , drawing accusations from Arab leaders that the referendum was a Zionist plot.( Link)
Every drop of Kurdish blood is now on Trumps hands...... and unfortunately ours.
99 percent his.
Disgusting is an understatement.
His comment is devoid of any knowledge it something a 5-year-old would say.
Turkey didn't help us at Normandy in fact Turkey finally entered WWII in Feb. 1945 and never were engaged in any combat. They were to busy suppressing the Kurds to help.
The one thing that the Turks did do was fight against us in WWI...Perhaps the stable genius should talk to the Aussies and Kiwis. They certainly could give him a history lesson on Turkey.
During WWI the Turks were also very busy killing Armenians. It's called the Armenian Genocide.
How does anyone justify this action Kavika.....?
You can't justify it but Trump will try as can be seen in his ignorant comments.
There have been five (5) generations of Trumps in the US...NONE has ever served a day in the military in their lives.
Well, there are several people commenting on NT as we speak-- who are jumping through hoops in their attempts to justify it..You can read their comments in several articles on the subject.
(One rather stupid strategy I've seen here is calling other NT users names-- accusing the people who say the U.S. should remain in Syria of being . . . "neo-cons"!
(The phrase "stuck on stupid" comes to mind).
Thanks for posting that..I hadn't known that is was 5 generations!
(I was okly thinking of one--n "Dear Leader" and his bones spurs).
They just prove their ignorance Krishna.
There are millions and millions and millions of U.S. citizens that haven't either.
Your Point ?
I thought it was just 4....Daddy dearest....trump stain.....his demented progeny and theirs.
Trump's dad and grandfather as well.
I forgot about the grandfather...ty.
His father is who I meant by daddy dearest.
Turkey is good with him because of his hotel there. If there were no hotel, Turkey would get no support from him.