Sorry , Trump Supporters Have To Say They're Sorry

  

Category:  News & Politics

By:  john-russell  •  3 weeks ago  •  222 comments

Sorry , Trump Supporters Have To Say They're Sorry
In 2011 Donald Trump wanted to run for president in 2012. His problem was he didnt have a political base. He knew there had been a racial backlash against the election of the first black president, Barack Obama , in 2009 and 2010, or what was known at the time as the tea party/birther movement.  By the start of 2011 though this was all dying out, mainly because the birthers had no evidence, were constantly being debunked, and the state of Hawaii had said publicly that Obama's birth...


We are going into the bygones be bygones stage, as those who can find 'meanness' by both sides are poised to tell the nation we can "heal" if we just accept that good people can see things differently. 

Can we find a "balance" between the behavior and beliefs of the nations' Trumpsters, and those on the other side?  Are both sides equally responsible for our national behavior going off the rails in the past 4 years? 

I would be willing to consider evidence of that, but I don't see the case for "both sides" are to blame. 

In 2011 Donald Trump wanted to run for president in 2012. His problem was he didnt have a political base. He knew there had been a racial backlash against the election of the first black president, Barack Obama , in 2009 and 2010, or what was known at the time as the tea party/birther movement.  By the start of 2011 though this was all dying out, mainly because the birthers had no evidence, were constantly being debunked, and the state of Hawaii had said publicly that Obama's birth certificate was in the state archives.  Trump was not fazed , and in February of 2011 he started going on national tv shows claiming there was something wrong with Obama's past and suggested his birth certificate was fake. Eventually, after a few months of this attempt to humiliate the first black president in US history, Obama suddenly produced his birth certificate. The result was to let all the air out of Trump. He was humiliated , and his 2012 campaign never materialized. 

But make no mistake, Trump had signaled that he was going to use race and conspiracy theories to create a space for himself in national politics. 

Fast forward to 2015, Trump comes down the escalator talking about Mexican rapists and killers, and he is immediately off to the races. Even though he literally behaved like a buffoon at the early GOP presidential debates, he slowly built a following that fairly quickly put him at the head of the field.  

You might think that Trump's humiliation over the birther thing would have made him untenable as a presidential candidate, for well, forever, but people who thought that didn't realize that Trump was appealing to white people who were really upset that blacks were getting elected to national offices.  After all, the tea party, filled with racists, and white people who feel they are being treated badly in modern US society had wielded a great deal of influence in the Republican Party during the Obama terms. In 2015 Trump's appeal to white racial grievance struck gold. 

If people want to go through all this we can, but here is my point. 

There has never been a time when Trump has been on the right side or moral side of US national politics. From the beginning, in 2011, he wanted to exploit racial tensions, and in truth between 2011 and 2015 Trump never renounced his racism toward Obama. Eventually he made a half assed acknowledgement that Obama was born in Hawaii but at the same time took credit for forcing Obama to produce his birth certificate. 

Everything Trump has done in politics has been the fruit of a poisoned tree. Everything. 

If people want to act as if "the left" needs to reconcile with Trump supporters, ok, good luck with that.  I'll do that when Trump supporters denounce Donald Trump and his racist history in politics. 

I'll be waiting. 


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JohnRussell
1  author  JohnRussell    3 weeks ago

 
 
 
Tessylo
1.1  Tessylo  replied to  JohnRussell @1    3 weeks ago

I wonder where a certain poster is who was so sure that tRump would win?  He said he was always right.

 
 
 
bugsy
2  bugsy    3 weeks ago

Trump Supporters Have To Say They're Sorry

OK, I'm sorry Trump lowered the unemployment rate for minorities to all time lows

I;m sorry President Trump signed legislation to essentially cancel Biden's 1992 crime bill that put thousands of "super predators" (Biden and Hillary term for blacks) behind bars for long periods of time for minor drug charges.

I'm sorry President Trump gave us the strongest economy in modern times until the China virus came along and democrats insisted on closing everything down, some up to today.

I'm sorry President Trump was responsible (at least partially because of deregulations) for the stock market hitting all time highs, allowing even the few liberals that work to have fairly large increases in their IRAs.

There are many other things that I'm sorry for, but we can discuss the at a later date.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
2.1  author  JohnRussell  replied to  bugsy @2    3 weeks ago

Trump's entire political career is based on racism and appeal to racism. Sorry, I wish it were not, but it is. 

There are those who say now we need to "all get along".

Ok, when Trump supporters denounce his political career built on racism we can talk about everyone getting along. 

 
 
 
bugsy
2.1.1  bugsy  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1    3 weeks ago
Trump's entire political career is based on racism and appeal to racism.

How so? Be specific, John. We know you have been working on feelings for 4 years now, so now is your chance to redeem yourself.

Do you think reforming the crime bill that Biden put together to put blacks away for a very long time, and Harris using the law to do so, racist?

BTW...The Grio is the racist arm of NBC "news".

 
 
 
JohnRussell
2.1.2  author  JohnRussell  replied to  bugsy @2.1.1    3 weeks ago

Donald Trump's political career was born in racism and it has never stopped. 

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Texan1211
2.1.3  Texan1211  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1    3 weeks ago

implying that everyone who voted for Trump is a racist says a lot about you.

no need to pretend you are the least bit interested in getting along with people who haven't jumped on the I Hate Trump train.

 
 
 
bugsy
2.1.4  bugsy  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1.2    3 weeks ago

Again, John, show proof of what you say. You have been asked to do so many times over the fake Russia hoax and never provided any.

I'm trying to give you an out, but it seems you don't want it.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
2.1.5  author  JohnRussell  replied to  bugsy @2.1.4    3 weeks ago

Bugsy, I just wrote an article about Trump's racist political basis. Do you really think I cannot demonstrate what I am saying? 

The Republican party and Republican primary voters nominated Trump in 2016 even though it was known that he had used birtherism to create a racist base in the Republican Party.  How do you explain that? 

 
 
 
bugsy
2.1.6  bugsy  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1.5    3 weeks ago
Do you really think I cannot demonstrate what I am saying? 

Well, you haven't so far

BTW...If you wrote this "article", it is an opinion piece, hardly news. It probably needs to be in the opinion section.

 
 
 
Drakkonis
2.1.7  Drakkonis  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1    3 weeks ago
Trump's entire political career is based on racism and appeal to racism. Sorry, I wish it were not, but it is. 

There are those who say now we need to "all get along".

Ok, when Trump supporters denounce his political career built on racism we can talk about everyone getting along.

And so it begins. In other words, unless your opponents fall into line with leftist thinking, there will be no "getting along". About what I expected. It will be interesting to see how far left this presidency will attempt to drag us. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
2.1.8  Texan1211  replied to  Drakkonis @2.1.7    3 weeks ago

he isn't interested in anything other than tearing Trump and anyone who voted for him down.

same old shit, even after his candidate won.

never expect more than that.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
2.1.9  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Drakkonis @2.1.7    3 weeks ago
There has never been a time when Trump has been on the right side or moral side of US national politics. From the beginning, in 2011, he wanted to exploit racial tensions, and in truth between 2011 and 2015 Trump never renounced his racism toward Obama. Eventually he made a half assed acknowledgement that Obama was born in Hawaii but at the same time took credit for forcing Obama to produce his birth certificate.  Everything Trump has done in politics has been the fruit of a poisoned tree. Everything. 

Condemning racism is "leftist thinking" ?   LOL. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
2.1.11  Texan1211  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1.9    3 weeks ago

No, but assuming everyone who disagrees with you politically is racist is.

 
 
 
JBB
2.1.12  JBB  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.11    3 weeks ago

People do not assume that I am racist though I am a comfortably retired white professional.

If so many do about you begs the question...

Why? Why are you constantly being accused?

 
 
 
Texan1211
2.1.13  Texan1211  replied to  JBB @2.1.12    3 weeks ago

first off, I didn't say me. and, I didn't refer to you. either.

if that is what you took from the posts, then you missed something

 
 
 
MAGA
2.1.14  MAGA  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1    3 weeks ago

Not only no but heck no.  Not only will we not apology for backing him but we will continue to do so and to promote and defend his ideas all through the Biden administration and either run him or his favored successor against Biden or Harris in 24.  There is nothing the left can say or do to make heartland and rural America apologize for supporting Trump and attempts to do so by the left and through articles like this will only stiffen our resolve to not only not apologize but to defiantly promote him to your faces.  After all it’s not like you all can sanction or punish us if we refuse.  So just forget about it and accept that the more you try the more we dig in and double down on past and future support for Trump, America first!, MAGA, and populist nationalism. 

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
2.1.15  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1.9    3 weeks ago

Condemning racism is "leftist thinking" ?  

In their minds, absolutely.

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
2.1.16  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1.5    3 weeks ago

It is called people freely exercising their right to vote as granted under the Constitution of The United States of America no matter what you or others perceive or whether you agree with what/who they voted for or not! It does not really get any simpler than that John.

 
 
 
Drakkonis
2.1.17  Drakkonis  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1.9    3 weeks ago
Condemning racism is "leftist thinking" ?

I just love it. You get to state that Trump was nothing but racism and somehow it is just magically so. And somehow, claiming that someone wasn't born in the US equates to racism. Yeah, that's about par for the course. Whenever someone opposes someone else who also happens to not be white, it's automatic racism, right? Any man who disagrees with a woman is a misogynist. Anyone who disagrees with a homosexual is a homophobe. We all know how it goes. What's amazing is that you believe such tactics puts you on the side of truth and honesty.  

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
2.1.18  Bob Nelson  replied to  Drakkonis @2.1.17    3 weeks ago
somehow it is just magically so

No. His words and deeds scream his racism.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
2.1.19  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Drakkonis @2.1.17    3 weeks ago

LOL. You are an intelligent guy, but that comment is ludicrous. 

Colin Powell Is Right: Birtherism Is Racism

In recently leaked emails , Colin Powell, former secretary of state, National Security advisor and chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff wrote: “the whole birther movement was racist. That’s what the 99% believe. When Trump couldn’t keep that up he said he also wanted to see if the certificate (Obama’s birth certificate) noted that he was a Muslim.” Powell went on to describe Donald Trump as “a national disgrace and international pariah.”

After President Obama has served in the White House for almost two terms, Donald Trump, one of the most visible voices in the birther movement in recent years, told The Washington Post  he remains unwilling to say the president was born in the United States.

Some day presidential historians and professors of psychology will write write at length—as virtually all reputable journalists do today—about the political dementia and bigotry that led some opponents of President Obama to spread the lies that the president is not an American and that he is Muslim and not Christian.

Powell is right. Birtherism is racism. The lie that the president was not born in America was an attack on the legitimacy of America’s first black president. The lie that the president is a Muslim is a play for votes based on bigotry against Muslims and fear of Muslims—which is based on another lie, that Muslims as a group should be tarred as terrorists when the truth is the exact opposite.

For the record, if President Obama was indeed a Muslim, there would be nothing wrong with that. Many Muslims serve courageously, wearing the uniform of our nation in the battle against terrorism. Many Muslims are gold star mothers and fathers who embody the highest patriotism of the nation, as Trump learned the hard way after some recent ill-fated comments he made. Virtually all American Muslims are patriotic Americans.

It is astounding, absurd and nauseating to huge numbers of voters that anyone who aspires to the presidency could state that the president is not an American.

Lets ignore the various statements offered by various Trump staff and supporters that the Republican nominee does indeed believe the two term president is an American.  That is not what he said to The Washington Post  this morning.

Considering the timing and magnitude of Trump’s latest birther gaffe, and the damage it will do to his campaign, Trump will almost certainty, finally, admit after almost eight years of the Obama presidency that the president was, indeed, born in America and is, indeed, an American. Perhaps Trump will even admit that the president is, indeed, a Christian.

But that is not enough. Trump owes President Obama an apology and a call for the entire birther movement to end the barrage of falsehoods that birthers have directed against the president.

Birtherism vs Racism: Vox Focuses on Klinkner Research

An article appearing on   Vox , titled   Trump is still reportedly pushing his racist ‘birther’ conspiracy theory about Obama , featured research completed by   Philip Klinkner , the James S. Sherman Professor of Government, in 2014 titled   The Causes and Consequences of “Birtherism.”  Subtitled   Seriously, this is still going on , the Nov. 29  Vox   story focused on the fact that President Trump is still promoting conspiracy theories about whether former President Barack Obama was born in the United States.

According to the article, Klinkner “concluded that belief in birtherism ‘is almost completely resistant to factual correction and is strongly related [to] partisanship and attitudes about race.’

“To evaluate this, Klinkner conducted a survey of Americans asking them about their views on Obama’s birthplace. He then compared the answers to other factors, such as political party, race, and racial attitudes. He found that birthers are almost entirely white, are mostly Republican, and reported high levels of racial resentment.

“In fact, a stronger belief in birtherism correlated tightly with increasing levels of racial resentment.

“It’s possible the correlation was coincidental. The study acknowledged that whiteness, Republicanism, and racial resentment all tend to correlate, so maybe this really reflects that partisan beliefs, not racial resentment, drive birtherism. But when Klinkner put all of these factors through a statistical control model, he found that racial resentment significantly correlated by itself with birtherism.”

It's not just that studies show the correlation between the allegation that Obama was born in Africa is racist, the eye and the smell test tell us that also. 

Trump wanted to make an appeal to aggrieved whites as a basis for a 2012 presidential campaign. It didnt happen then, but he did it again 4 years later. 

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
2.1.20  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  MAGA @2.1.14    3 weeks ago

It's not just Trump supporters but many of the the hard core liberal left want to blame all right leaning conservatives as well simply for not sharing their particular belief system. They just cannot accept the concept  that others disagree politically.

 
 
 
bugsy
2.1.21  bugsy  replied to  JBB @2.1.12    3 weeks ago
People do not assume that I am racis

That's what you think. Just because you are white is reason enough for some to claim you are racist.

We saw that so many times the last 4 years, and those same people have no intention of letting up, even though there will be a racist old white guy in the White House, and no, I am not referring to Trump.

 
 
 
bugsy
2.1.22  bugsy  replied to  Bob Nelson @2.1.18    3 weeks ago
No. His words and deeds scream his racism

Some examples please, and be specific with credible sources. Your opinion and feelings don't count.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
2.1.23  Bob Nelson  replied to  bugsy @2.1.22    3 weeks ago

[Deleted] The information is available for anyone who wants it. And anyone who doesn't want it will certainly not find it. 

So it's up to you. 

 
 
 
Drakkonis
2.1.24  Drakkonis  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1.19    3 weeks ago
LOL. You are an intelligent guy, but that comment is ludicrous. 

Um, so your whole defense is people's opinions? These guys say it was racism so it was racism? Hmm, I keep forgetting which version of redefined racism we're all supposed to be using now. Seems like we're going with ad populum then? 

 
 
 
TᵢG
2.1.25  TᵢG  replied to  Drakkonis @2.1.24    3 weeks ago
I keep forgetting which version of redefined racism we're all supposed to be using now.

I think this is good:  ( Oxford )

Prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against a person or people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized.
 
 
 
JohnRussell
2.1.26  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Drakkonis @2.1.24    3 weeks ago

You seem to believe that people are not racist if they tell you they are not.  I'll go with the studies and the known facts. It is a known fact that Trump promoted a racist conspiracy theory that got great national attention and then a few years later he was the Republican nominee for president. 

 
 
 
arkpdx
2.1.27  arkpdx  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1.26    3 weeks ago

What racist theory is that? Are you talking about questioning whether Obama was actually a natural born citizen? If so did you think it was racist when Democrats questioned if Barry Goldwater was actually a citizen? Was it racist when the Democrats claimed john McCain was not a naturally born citizen?

 
 
 
arkpdx
2.1.28  arkpdx  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1.26    3 weeks ago

What racist theory is that? Are you talking about questioning whether Obama was actually a natural born citizen? If so did you think it was racist when Democrats questioned if Barry Goldwater was actually a citizen? Was it racist when the Democrats claimed john McCain was not a naturally born citizen?

 
 
 
Drakkonis
2.1.29  Drakkonis  replied to  TᵢG @2.1.25    3 weeks ago
I think this is good:

As do I. Now all they have to do is prove that Trump's birtherism was due to racism rather than a sense of nationalism or some other motivation. After all, it isn't too hard to prove that Trump was pretty equal opportunity concerning his perceived enemies. He did similar things to everyone. It seems to me, from his public record, what Trump cared about was whether or not a person supported and glorified him or opposed him. Race didn't factor into it in any obvious way that I could see. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
2.1.30  TᵢG  replied to  Drakkonis @2.1.29    3 weeks ago

I deemed it partisan.   Cruz and McCain were on the radar for this too.

 
 
 
Drakkonis
2.1.31  Drakkonis  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1.26    3 weeks ago
You seem to believe that people are not racist if they tell you they are not.

Nope. I simply watch what they do and decide for myself. 

I'll go with the studies and the known facts. It is a known fact that Trump promoted a racist conspiracy theory that got great national attention and then a few years later he was the Republican nominee for president. 

Okay then. Birtherism is racism. Got it. So, if in the future, a white guy who may or may not have been born in the US who tries to run for president and anyone questions it, it's going to be racism? Because if you're going to define it that way, it has to apply all across the board. 

And why just stop at birtherism? Why not simply state that anyone who opposes a person of color is an example of racism? Oh, wait! We pretty much do that already. Never mind. 

 
 
 
Drakkonis
2.1.32  Drakkonis  replied to  TᵢG @2.1.30    3 weeks ago
I deemed it partisan.   Cruz and McCain were on the radar for this too.

Good examples of what I mean and pretty much sums up my opinion as well. 

I'm not trying to defend Trump. I personally think the guy was a narcissistic ass hat that lied a lot but tried to implement many policies I agreed with. But what I see these days are pages right out of the novel 1984. Redefining words in order to make something seem true. Look at what's happened to the word "hate". And people are swallowing it just as fast as they can shovel it down because it feeds them emotionally. They like any excuse to feel that righteous anger. It's addictive. 

Personally, I think if you can serve in Congress you should be able to serve as President. In fact, I don't know why you have to be a natural born citizen in the first place. I think the only criteria on that matter should be that you have to have lived in the US for some defined amount of years before being able to run. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
2.1.33  author  JohnRussell  replied to  arkpdx @2.1.27    3 weeks ago

Please, don't insult everyone's intelligence by comparing the minute questioning of those two births to the years long crusade by tea party/birthers against Obama. Don't wallow in such ignorance. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
2.1.34  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Drakkonis @2.1.31    3 weeks ago

So you rationalize the large scale attempt to delegitimize the nation's first black president by alleging he was born in Africa. There was a time when well over half of Republicans believed Obama was born in Kenya, despite absolutely no evidence of it. It's racism. 

And the Republicans nominated the king birther for president in 2016. 

I would hate to try and win a debate with the facts you are working with. 

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
2.1.35  Bob Nelson  replied to  Drakkonis @2.1.29    3 weeks ago

George Romney, Mitt's father and candidate in 1968, was born in Mexico. Of American-citizen parents.

No one ever challenged his right to be a candidate. 

Of course... he was White... 

 
 
 
Greg Jones
2.1.36  Greg Jones  replied to  bugsy @2.1.21    3 weeks ago
even though there will be a racist old white guy in the White House, and no, I am not referring to Trump.

Yep!

 
 
 
Greg Jones
2.1.37  Greg Jones  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1.26    3 weeks ago
It is a known fact that Trump promoted a racist conspiracy theory that got great national attention and then a few years later he was the Republican nominee for president. 

[deleted]

 
 
 
Drakkonis
2.1.38  Drakkonis  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1.34    3 weeks ago
So you rationalize the large scale attempt to delegitimize the nation's first black president by alleging he was born in Africa.

Um, yeah, I alleged that he was born in Africa and then I voted for him. Because that would make sense, right? That fits in with your theory.  Except it doesn't. 

There was a time when well over half of Republicans believed Obama was born in Kenya, despite absolutely no evidence of it. It's racism.

Possibly because, like the Dems, they will use anything at all to win. You know, like labelling everything everyone not Dem does as racist and doing things with racist motivations. Kinda like that. 

I would hate to try and win a debate with the facts you are working with. 

I don't blame you. Much easier for you to work within your constructed world of imagined oppressions. 

 
 
 
Drakkonis
2.1.39  Drakkonis  replied to  Bob Nelson @2.1.35    3 weeks ago
George Romney, Mitt's father and candidate in 1968, was born in Mexico. Of American-citizen parents.

No one ever challenged his right to be a candidate. 

Of course... he was White... 

I'll speak to them and ask that they not let it happen again. 

 
 
 
JBB
2.1.40  JBB  replied to  Greg Jones @2.1.37    3 weeks ago

256

 
 
 
Drakkonis
2.1.41  Drakkonis  replied to  JBB @2.1.40    3 weeks ago

Is that the sum total of your evidence???

 
 
 
Greg Jones
2.1.42  Greg Jones  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1.34    3 weeks ago

Obama never denied what he had published

 
 
 
Texan1211
2.1.43  Texan1211  replied to  JBB @2.1.40    3 weeks ago

As an American, I will always put America first.

Why don't you?

 
 
 
cjcold
2.1.44  cjcold  replied to  bugsy @2.1.4    3 weeks ago

Now that Trump has lost, he will be prosecuted over that "fake" Russia hoax. 

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
2.2  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  bugsy @2    3 weeks ago

Rachel "Mad Dog" Maddow is one heavy duty leftist liberal looney toon on MSM whom I would not trust to walk my dog! The woman hates conservatives about as much as the liberal left claims Tucker Carlson hates liberals. What good reason would there be for Trump supporters/conservatives to have to apologise to leftist liberals? Just two letters to describe the seeded article: BS! Hiw about leftist liberal Democrats do the same to those people wearing MAGA hats whom they routinely abused and harassed the last four years just for wearing hats the left detested? Fair is fair, but apparently not to leftist liberals...

 
 
 
JohnRussell
2.2.1  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @2.2    3 weeks ago

Ed, Trump's political career is based on white grievance.  Do you think that is a good basis to go forward in a country that becomes more non white every day? 

 
 
 
Kathleen
2.2.2  Kathleen  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @2.2    3 weeks ago

Agreed Ed, no one has the room to ask for apologies.  I have seen a..holes on both sides of the coin.  A lot of nerve if you ask me especially with the riots that hurt many people. Plus other stupid things that people were doing on top of it.  I don't apologize for other people, only for my own actions like any smart person would do.

This is laughable..

 
 
 
JohnRussell
2.2.3  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Kathleen @2.2.2    3 weeks ago

Kathleen, why did Republicans support Trump in 2015 and 2016?  After all it was KNOWN at that time that Trump had used a racist conspiracy theory to attack the first black president of the United States just a few years earlier. 

Trump's appeal to white grievance was not an insignificant part of his attraction in the campaign of 2015-2016, it was one of the main features. 

He's never changed either. 

Now its over and many people want reconciliation. I'll reconcile when you explain to me how someone who openly appealed to racism (birtherism) became the Republican presidential nominee and then a Republican president. 

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
2.2.4  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  JohnRussell @2.2.1    3 weeks ago

Sorry John, but it seems you just do not get it. I seems that, in essence, you think anyone that is perceived as a "white" conservative by the liberal left as white whether they be Trump supporter or not automatically owes people of color a apology for being white? On a cold day in Hades mister! I owe absolutely no one a apology for things I have never personally done for whatever my ethnicity or skin color may be, which by the way happens to be a mixture of Mexican/American, Native American, Spaniard, and Scottish that I am all equally proud of! In addition, I refuse to apologize for any perceived wrongs by me presently , or by my ancestors that may have occurred long before I was ever born so deal with it.

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
2.2.5  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Kathleen @2.2.2    3 weeks ago

You are absolutely correct.

 
 
 
MAGA
2.2.6  MAGA  replied to  JohnRussell @2.2.1    3 weeks ago

No it wasn’t and not only do we have nothing to apologize for, we’re not going to invent one to make you happy.  Besides, the GOP gained house seats, will keep the senate and gained a governor and a pair of state legislative chambers to improve our redistricting post census position.  Most of our gains were by people who support Trump.  We support him for a whole variety of political, economic, judicial, energy, national security, and religious liberty reasons.  Bigotry and racism played no role in that support.  In fact Trumps support among African Americans, Hispanic Americans, Asian Americans, Gay Americans, and Jewish Americans was the highest of any Republican running for President since the year I was born, 1960.  Many new GOP office holders and close losses were women and minorities supporting Trump.  Trump actually did win a majority of Jews who were Orthodox or are Americans living in Israel.  So spare the recriminations.  Not only did we support Trump, we did so proudly and knowingly with no intent ever to make any apologies for it and if given the chance will happily and proudly do it again in 2024.  Like various articles in the media suggest Trump may not personally win this year but Trumpism did, it’s stronger than ever and we aren’t going anywhere.  

 
 
 
JBB
2.2.7  JBB  replied to  MAGA @2.2.6    3 weeks ago

256

 
 
 
cjcold
2.2.8  cjcold  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @2.2    3 weeks ago

I have no desire to be "fair" to far right wing fascists. All fascists should FOAD yesterday.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
2.2.9  Bob Nelson  replied to  cjcold @2.2.8    3 weeks ago

Wrong! 

We must be fair to fascists. 

Do unto them as they would do unto everyone. 

 
 
 
SteevieGee
2.3  SteevieGee  replied to  bugsy @2    3 weeks ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Texan1211
2.3.1  Texan1211  replied to  SteevieGee @2.3    3 weeks ago
removed for context

[deleted]

 
 
 
SteevieGee
2.3.2  SteevieGee  replied to  Texan1211 @2.3.1    3 weeks ago

I never said that all Trump voters are racists.  I honestly don't think that Trump himself is a racist.  Trump will do anything that helps Trump and he's found an easily manipulated ally to use within the white supremacist communities.  This is why it's a plank in his platform.

 
 
 
Texan1211
2.3.3  Texan1211  replied to  SteevieGee @2.3.2    3 weeks ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
2.3.4  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Texan1211 @2.3.3    3 weeks ago
our words speak volumes about you.

crank UP the volume Tex, asz Trump Hasz enabled many an able body, via manual extremities, the path that to which a sKkKaringly large amount of ignorance, was silently allowed too 

shine on inn, and not pretty   mind ya

 
 
 
Texan1211
2.3.5  Texan1211  replied to  igknorantzrulz @2.3.4    3 weeks ago

Inane.

 
 
 
Texan1211
2.3.6  Texan1211  replied to  SteevieGee @2.3.2    3 weeks ago

Your words are there for all to see. Not much sense in denying what all can see for themselves.

 
 
 
cjcold
2.3.7  cjcold  replied to  SteevieGee @2.3.2    3 weeks ago

Don't know why we're still talking about Trump; he's a loser.

 
 
 
cjcold
2.4  cjcold  replied to  bugsy @2    3 weeks ago

Deregulations make the planet and those who live on it sick and dead. Pollution kills.

 
 
 
bbl-1
3  bbl-1    3 weeks ago

Apologize?  Never happen.  It takes moral conviction and the guidance of right and wrong to understand an error.  

Separating children from their parents because they walked across an imaginary line in the dirt is un-christian, immoral and against the very fabric this nation stands for.  Those that supported this policy can not apologize because it is them that permitted it.    

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
3.1  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  bbl-1 @3    3 weeks ago

Interesting that said separations were also happening during the eight years of the Obama administration as well. Funny how the liberal left just cannot seem to find the moral outrage for that can they? Two wrongs never make a right so don't pretend the left's side never happened!

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
3.1.1  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @3.1    3 weeks ago
Two wrongs never make a right so don't pretend the left's side never happened!

but three wrongs make me feel left out, as i'm wrong far more often

than Left behind

 
 
 
cjcold
3.2  cjcold  replied to  bbl-1 @3    3 weeks ago

Fascists never apologize. I submit the Nuremberg trials as an example. 

 
 
 
arkpdx
4  arkpdx    3 weeks ago

I have absolutely nothing to apologise for. I am proud that I supported a candidate that put America and Americans first. A man that upheld our laws and the Constitution. A man that did not bend to mob rule. 

I and not pleased with the outcome of the election but it is what it is. Be sure however I will keep a close eye on Joe and the 'Ho and more than likely support their opposition in 2024

 
 
 
Gazoo
4.1  Gazoo  replied to  arkpdx @4    3 weeks ago

It’s not over, an uphill fight for sure, but there are many irregularities that all happen to benefit biden that need to be investigated. One would think biden would want these irregularities to be investigated to show he won fair and square but we all know that won’t happen.

 
 
 
cjcold
4.2  cjcold  replied to  arkpdx @4    3 weeks ago
Joe and the 'Ho

So glad you're keeping an open mind.

 
 
 
arkpdx
4.2.1  arkpdx  replied to  cjcold @4.2    3 weeks ago

Just as you have for the last four years

 
 
 
TᵢG
4.3  TᵢG  replied to  arkpdx @4    3 weeks ago
... the 'Ho ...

On what open-minded grounds do you label Harris a ‘ho’?

 
 
 
Gazoo
5  Gazoo    3 weeks ago

I’m a proud supporter of president trump, i have nothing to apologize for. I will, also never apologize for being white. If anybody has a problem with that, too bad.

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
5.1  Thrawn 31  replied to  Gazoo @5    3 weeks ago
I will, also never apologize for being white.

Um, has anyone EVER asked you to do that?

If anybody has a problem with that, too bad.

No one cares that you are white, get over yourself. 

 
 
 
Gazoo
5.1.1  Gazoo  replied to  Thrawn 31 @5.1    3 weeks ago

According to some morons, if you are white, you are racist.

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
5.1.2  Thrawn 31  replied to  Gazoo @5.1.1    3 weeks ago

According to who exactly? 

 
 
 
Greg Jones
5.1.3  Greg Jones  replied to  Thrawn 31 @5.1.2    3 weeks ago

According to who exactly? 

JR....over and over, day after day...among others

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
5.1.4  Bob Nelson  replied to  Greg Jones @5.1.3    3 weeks ago

That's odd... I spend a lot of time on NT, including reading almost everything from John... but I've never seen anything like that. 

Please supply a link. Otherwise, all regular NTers will realize that you make shit up. 

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
5.1.5  FLYNAVY1  replied to  Bob Nelson @5.1.4    3 weeks ago

Otherwise, all regular NTers will realize that you make shit up. 

More like on a continual basis....

 
 
 
Tessylo
5.1.6  Tessylo  replied to  Bob Nelson @5.1.4    3 weeks ago
"Please supply a link. Otherwise, all regular NTers will realize that you make shit up." 

We've known that for a long time.  

 
 
 
Greg Jones
5.1.7  Greg Jones  replied to  Bob Nelson @5.1.4    3 weeks ago

And you're another one....as proved by your words

 
 
 
cjcold
5.1.8  cjcold  replied to  Gazoo @5.1.1    3 weeks ago

Pretty much everybody (no matter the color) is racist to a certain degree.

I am well traveled and have friends all over the world who agree. 

I'm the arrogant rich American white boy they put up with every couple of years.  

 
 
 
TᵢG
5.1.9  TᵢG  replied to  cjcold @5.1.8    3 weeks ago

It is actually part of our biology.   Our amygdala is entirely racist.   It is our frontal lobe that counteracts the knee-jerk racism inherent (survival instinct) in the amygdala.   Some primates, however, lack the frontal lobe power to sufficiently deal with the primal reaction.   They often wear white hoods or shave their heads and wear swastika tattoos.

 
 
 
dennis smith
6  dennis smith    3 weeks ago

Perhaps Biden should be impeached like Trump was with no basis. Perhaps Biden should be investigated for 2 years like Trump was by Mueller again with no basis. 

Not going to happen because the Repubs have too much character and care too much about America to put it through 4 more years of hatred like the Dems just did.

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
6.1  Thrawn 31  replied to  dennis smith @6    3 weeks ago
Not going to happen because the Repubs have too much character and care too much about America to put it through 4 more years of hatred like the Dems just did.

And THAT right there is why there will not be any reconciliation, because you will not in any way admit that both sides do/have done it relentlessly since 2008 at the latest. 

Sure there are those on the left that won't acknowledge it either, which again means reconciliation is impossible. Until both sides can admit wrongdoing and look for a better way there is nothing to talk about. 

 
 
 
dennis smith
6.1.1  dennis smith  replied to  Thrawn 31 @6.1    3 weeks ago

The last 4 years make everything that happened by both parties since 2008 look like child's play.

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
6.1.2  Thrawn 31  replied to  dennis smith @6.1.1    3 weeks ago

Thanks for reinforcing my point. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
6.2  author  JohnRussell  replied to  dennis smith @6    3 weeks ago
Perhaps Biden should be impeached like Trump was with no basis.

Trump tried to bribe the leader of a foreign country to investigate Trump's election opponent. The Democrat impeachment managers proved this at the Senate impeachment trial. The Republicans used the rationalization that this conduct was "not impeachable" to justify their refusal to remove him.

 
 
 
dennis smith
6.2.1  dennis smith  replied to  JohnRussell @6.2    3 weeks ago

The Dem impeachment managers proved no such thing or Trump would have been removed from office. The Mueller probe did not find Trump guilty either.

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
6.2.2  Thrawn 31  replied to  dennis smith @6.2.1    3 weeks ago
The Dem impeachment managers proved no such thing or Trump would have been removed from office. The Mueller probe did not find Trump guilty either.

[deleted]

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
6.2.3  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Thrawn 31 @6.2.2    3 weeks ago

removed for context

Now that was pretty uncalled for!

yes it was, please just flag it without repeating it, etc. SP

 
 
 
cjcold
6.3  cjcold  replied to  dennis smith @6    3 weeks ago

Trump was impeached for good reason. He will soon be tried and convicted for his many crimes. 

 
 
 
dennis smith
6.3.1  dennis smith  replied to  cjcold @6.3    2 weeks ago

As much chance of that as Obama being tried and convicted for his crimes.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
7  Bob Nelson    3 weeks ago
There has never been a time when Trump has been on the right side or moral side of US national politics.

This must be the litmus for determining if an "ex-Trumpist" is genuinely "ex". 

Is this person racist? 

Does this person support the rule of law? How do they show this?

No one is going to apologize. Let's let bygones be bygones. 

At the same time, we would be foolish to ignore a person's previous fascist-fellow-traveler behavior. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
7.1  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Bob Nelson @7    3 weeks ago

Trump's entire political career is based on an appeal to racism. That is clearly how it started and it never stopped. The fact that some people voted for Trump for other reasons such as his supposed unique ability to juice the economy or his "outsider" affectation does not remove the appeal to white grievance. As we go forward into this period of "reconciliation", let's not delude ourselves into the belief that Trumpism is based on positive qualities. 

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
7.1.1  Bob Nelson  replied to  JohnRussell @7.1    3 weeks ago

Agreed. 

We small-d democrats are kinda in the same situation as the de-Nazificaton authorities in Germany after the war. 

We shall be very pleased to welcome back into decency those who demonstrate decency. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
7.1.2  Texan1211  replied to  JohnRussell @7.1    3 weeks ago

It takes a really special kind of stupid to brand all Trump voters as racists.

 
 
 
cjcold
7.1.3  cjcold  replied to  Bob Nelson @7.1.1    3 weeks ago

So shoot everybody else in the back of the head?

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
7.1.4  Bob Nelson  replied to  cjcold @7.1.3    3 weeks ago

My post identified TrumpTrueBelievers who switch to a different Prophet.

My post IN NO WAY indicated what should be done with / to / for / about them. 

Please do not invent fake quotes, from me or anyone else. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
8  author  JohnRussell    3 weeks ago

www.brookings.edu /blog/fixgov/2019/08/14/trump-and-racism-what-do-the-data-say/

Trump and racism: What do the data say?

Vanessa Williamson, Isabella Gelfand

4-5 minutes

The Brookings Cafeteria podcast last week discussed the role President Trump’s racist rhetoric has played in encouraging violence in America. Predictably, some podcast listeners responded skeptically on Twitter, doubting the association between Trump and hateful behavior. It would be naïve to think that data will change many individuals’ minds on this topic, but nonetheless, there is substantial evidence that Trump has encouraged racism and benefitted politically from it.

First, Donald Trump’s support in the 2016 campaign was clearly driven by racism, sexism, and xenophobia. While some observers have explained Trump’s success as a result of economic anxiety, the data demonstrate that anti-immigrant sentiment , racism, and sexism are much more strongly related to support for Trump. Trump’s much-discussed vote advantage with non-college-educated whites is misleading; when accounting for racism and sexism, the education gap among whites in the 2016 election returns to the typical levels of previous elections since 2000. Trump did not do especially well with non-college-educated whites, compared to other Republicans. He did especially well with white people who express sexist views about women and who deny racism exists.

Even more alarmingly, there is a clear correlation between Trump campaign events and incidents of prejudiced violence. FBI data show that since Trump’s election there has been an anomalous spike in hate crimes concentrated in counties where Trump won by larger margins. It was the second-largest uptick in hate crimes in the 25 years for which data are available, second only to the spike after September 11, 2001. Though hate crimes are typically most frequent in the summer, in 2016 they peaked in the fourth quarter (October-December). This new, higher rate of hate crimes continued throughout 2017.

The association between Trump and hate crimes is not limited to the election itself. Another study, based on data collected by the Anti-Defamation League, shows that counties that hosted a Trump campaign rally in 2016 saw hate crime rates more than double compared to similar counties that did not host a rally.

The data analysis discussed above has centered on correlations; they are suggestive of a link between Trump and racist attitudes and behavior, but do not actually demonstrate that one leads to the other. However, there is also causal evidence to point to. In experiments, being exposed to Trump’s rhetoric actually increases expressions of prejudice. In a 2017 survey, researchers randomly exposed some respondents to racist comments by the president, such as:

“When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re sending people that have lots of problems… They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.”

Other respondents were exposed to a statement by Hillary Clinton condemning prejudiced Trump supporters. Later in the study, the respondents were asked their opinion of various groups, including Mexican people, black people, and young people. Those who had read Trump’s words were more likely to write derogatory things not only about Mexican people, but also about other groups as well.  By contrast, those who were exposed to Clinton’s words were less likely to express offensive views towards Muslims. Words do matter, and data prove it.

Unfortunately, there is little reason to expect this research to have much impact on public attitudes; increasingly, partisanship skews what Americans think qualifies as racist . But there is no excuse for avoiding clear, accurate descriptions of American political dynamics. When the data show that President Trump’s support stems from racist and sexist beliefs, and that his election emboldened Americans to engage in racist behavior, it is the responsibility of social scientists and other political observers to say so.



 
 
 
dennis smith
8.1  dennis smith  replied to  JohnRussell @8    2 weeks ago

No proof just opinion. Nothing new

 
 
 
JohnRussell
9  author  JohnRussell    3 weeks ago

There is an entire wikipedia page about Trump's "racially charged" views.  It is quite a long page. 

And still of course we have endless numbers of Trump supporters who say that race has nothing to do with the people who vote for Trump and with support for Donald Trump.  This is what we call denial.   Can denial be the basis for "reconciliation" ? 

 
 
 
MAGA
9.1  MAGA  replied to  JohnRussell @9    3 weeks ago

Ah yes the totally and completely biased bigots at the forever unreliable Wikipedia have spoken.  Talk about the ultimate in questionable sources.  Do colleges let students quote Wikipedia as a source in term papers yet?   

 
 
 
MsAubrey (aka Ahyoka)
9.1.1  MsAubrey (aka Ahyoka)  replied to  MAGA @9.1    3 weeks ago
Do colleges let students quote Wikipedia as a source in term papers yet?   

No.

 
 
 
Kathleen
9.1.2  Kathleen  replied to  MsAubrey (aka Ahyoka) @9.1.1    3 weeks ago

Nope they don't, it's not a reliable source.

 
 
 
cjcold
9.1.3  cjcold  replied to  MAGA @9.1    3 weeks ago

Trumps own filmed mouth is obviously a questionable source./s

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
10  Paula Bartholomew    3 weeks ago

What I find amazing is the reports of citizens in other countries holding mass celebrations in their streets because Biden won.  I don't recall that happening with any US election before.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
10.1  Bob Nelson  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @10    3 weeks ago

Lots of foreigners realize that Trump would not bring down just the United States, but all of Western civilization.

Xi Jinping must be laughing his butt off!

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
10.1.1  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Bob Nelson @10.1    3 weeks ago

I wonder if Putin will now release the rumored pee tapes.

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
10.1.2  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Bob Nelson @10.1    3 weeks ago

Wait until Ivanka gets hit with the tariffs daddy put on everyone but her.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
10.1.3  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Bob Nelson @10.1    3 weeks ago
"Xi Jinping must be laughing his butt off!"

Trump has done and is doing Xi Jinping a huge favour.  Trump is showing the Hong Kong protesters a scenario about democracy that will probably change the minds of a lot of them, especially when they compare it to the present peaceful and comfortable situation of the mainland citizens.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
10.1.4  Bob Nelson  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @10.1.3    3 weeks ago

Trump is giving aid and comfort to enemies of democracy, all around the world. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
10.1.5  Texan1211  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @10.1.2    3 weeks ago

I thought Biden said that tariffs were bad, and that he would be stopping them?

 
 
 
Texan1211
10.1.6  Texan1211  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @10.1.1    3 weeks ago
I wonder if Putin will now release the rumored pee tapes.

I wonder how much longer fools will continue to push such idiocy.

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
10.1.7  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Texan1211 @10.1.6    3 weeks ago
I wonder how much longer fools will continue to push such idiocy.

zHow much longer do you plan on wondering...?

 
 
 
Texan1211
10.1.8  Texan1211  replied to  igknorantzrulz @10.1.7    3 weeks ago

I guess I will wonder as long as the idiots who push that pee tape nonsense persist on lying.

 
 
 
cjcold
10.1.9  cjcold  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @10.1.1    3 weeks ago

I know that those tapes exist but would pay good money not to watch them.

 
 
 
Texan1211
10.1.10  Texan1211  replied to  cjcold @10.1.9    3 weeks ago

Why would you waste money to not watch something no one can even prove exists, that despite repeated claims of their existence, and equal calls for proof, simply no evidence exists that the tapes ever existed?

Weird.

 
 
 
cjcold
10.1.11  cjcold  replied to  Texan1211 @10.1.10    3 weeks ago

Putin made blackmail tapes of all his guests (head of the KGB duh).

 
 
 
Texan1211
10.1.12  Texan1211  replied to  cjcold @10.1.11    2 weeks ago

Ok, anyone can claim anything they want, but where is the PROOF?
Just because you claim something doesn't make it fact, and I notice not a one of you claiming the tapes exist can provide one scintilla of evidence that they do.

Sounds like you are claiming something is true because you want it to be true, and nothing more.

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
10.1.13  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Texan1211 @10.1.12    2 weeks ago
Sounds like you are claiming something is true because you want it to be true, and nothing more.

yea, yea it does.

 
 
 
Texan1211
10.1.14  Texan1211  replied to  igknorantzrulz @10.1.13    2 weeks ago

I figured you'd be one believing the pee tape nonsense, too.

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
10.1.15  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Texan1211 @10.1.14    2 weeks ago

right on Q

 
 
 
Texan1211
10.1.16  Texan1211  replied to  igknorantzrulz @10.1.15    2 weeks ago

If you have any proof for the pee tapes every liberal seems to think exist, let's see it!

Oh, wait.........we ALL know you have ZERO proof.....so yeah, just a bunch of shit made up and believed by suckers.

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
10.1.17  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Texan1211 @10.1.16    2 weeks ago
just a bunch of shit made up and believed by suckers.

an accurate depiction of Trump, and his never a need for proof following, that you, followed a very close path, should give one paws, as your cause, needed only you to be, Because it worked for Trump ON YOU, yet now ewe sheeple can B leave him out of the need to prove ANYTHING he said, EVER, while you, attempting to be clever, is like always, and you are, as in, never mind WHY Trump NEVER said a disparaging word about Putin, on kissed his ass , and WHY, did TRUMP NEVER CALL HIM OUT FOR BOUNTIES PLACED ON OUR SOLDIERS HEADS, cause it makes mine spin, asz there is KNOW EXCUSE for not calling out rUSSIA and PUT IN, unless, Trump was scared shitless of a tape bean Putin out there that showed Prostitutes Russian, Russian to gush inn   on Trump, naked and afraid, curled up in the fetal PEEToll position, Putin placed him in. Eventually, when Putin know longer needs leverage, you WILL SEE, just what is Trummpppy's favorite beverage !

 
 
 
Texan1211
10.1.18  Texan1211  replied to  igknorantzrulz @10.1.17    2 weeks ago

Oh, gee, yet more word salad.

When do we get to the meat and potatoes instead of gibberish?

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
10.1.19  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Texan1211 @10.1.18    2 weeks ago
When do we get to the meat and potatoes instead of gibberish?

when your done tossing, catch up

 
 
 
Texan1211
10.1.20  Texan1211  replied to  igknorantzrulz @10.1.19    2 weeks ago

waht ar ew bllabnig aoubt onw?

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
10.1.21  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Texan1211 @10.1.20    2 weeks ago

ekoorB, si taht ewe<

 
 
 
Texan1211
10.1.22  Texan1211  replied to  igknorantzrulz @10.1.21    2 weeks ago

I ond't htnik uyo erllay egt hits.

 
 
 
dennis smith
10.1.23  dennis smith  replied to  Texan1211 @10.1.16    2 weeks ago

Did you really expect anything except ZERO proof? 

 
 
 
Texan1211
10.1.24  Texan1211  replied to  dennis smith @10.1.23    2 weeks ago

no, I expect the usual--wild accusations, no proof

 
 
 
MAGA
10.2  MAGA  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @10    3 weeks ago

Because they, especially China and Iran know that Biden will sell America out to them and it America last. More leading from behind.  

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
10.2.1  Thrawn 31  replied to  MAGA @10.2    3 weeks ago

Trump had a secret Chinese bank account. 

 
 
 
Tessylo
10.2.2  Tessylo  replied to  Thrawn 31 @10.2.1    3 weeks ago

There were also two other secret bank accounts, one in Scotland, and I forget the other.

 
 
 
Greg Jones
10.2.3  Greg Jones  replied to  Thrawn 31 @10.2.1    3 weeks ago
Trump had a secret Chinese bank account. 
Proof?

 
 
 
Texan1211
10.2.4  Texan1211  replied to  Greg Jones @10.2.3    3 weeks ago

Proof?????

jrSmiley_10_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
10.2.5  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Thrawn 31 @10.2.1    3 weeks ago

You can bet there is at least one in Switzerland and some in various off shore accounts.

 
 
 
Ronin2
10.2.6  Ronin2  replied to  Thrawn 31 @10.2.1    3 weeks ago

Biden's son Hunter took money from China and Ukraine sliding some to Joe for pay for play. Just what we need back in the White House.

Of course the left will deny Hunter's business partner singing like a bird and giving real evidence- just to keep his ass out of prison- forever.

 
 
 
cjcold
10.2.7  cjcold  replied to  Greg Jones @10.2.3    3 weeks ago

(Self deleted. Even made me blush)

 
 
 
dennis smith
10.2.8  dennis smith  replied to  MAGA @10.2    2 weeks ago

Biden has now said he will remove travel restrictions Trump made, put the US back in the WHO so we can spend money to support their claims that XChina was not responsible for the COVID, Put us back in the Paris Climate Accords even though we are far ahead of other countrees in reducing pollution while China remains the biggest polluter in the world.

Such is the brilliance of Biden /s

 
 
 
dennis smith
10.2.9  dennis smith  replied to  Thrawn 31 @10.2.1    2 weeks ago

Proof of secret bank accounts?

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
10.3  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @10    3 weeks ago

Yes it has. Ever heard of John Fitzgerald Kennedy?

 
 
 
cjcold
10.3.1  cjcold  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @10.3    3 weeks ago

One man with a rifle can change democracy. 

Everybody in my neck of the woods owns a 1000 yard rifle.

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
11  Dismayed Patriot    3 weeks ago

Apologize for their inherited prejudices and views on race? Apologize for their ingrained belief in their own white Christian superiority? Apologize for marching in the streets waving swastikas and confederate flags trying desperately to protect the monuments and memorials to racist salvers? Apologize for cheering when the President called Mexicans "rapists"? Apologize for letting a petulant man baby shit all over American democracy? Never. Few have either the backbone or the strength to stand up for their defense of the indefensible, backbone and strength are not the traits of pond scum, they can only slither back under their rocks for a while before coming out again next election cycle to bite at the heels of American progress and success, all because they feel their fantasy "white Christian culture" (which apparently includes confederate monuments) isn't being revered and put on a pedestal as they believe it should.

The aren't sorry for anything other than not being able to completely smother American progress in its bed with the fat orange pillow of Donald Trump. That was their true hope, to kill off progress, to annihilate equality, to justify prejudice and to legalize discrimination against those who don't look like them, love like them or worship like they do. That is truly their only regret in this election, that the man they hired to lynch rational thinking, to assassinate reason and slit the throat of progress was thrown out of the white house before he could finish the job of snuffing out diversity and the American dream.

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
11.1  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @11    3 weeks ago
That is truly their only regret in this election, that the man they hired to lynch rational thinking, to assassinate reason and slit the throat of progress was thrown out of the white house before he could finish the job of snuffing out diversity and the American dream.

The Commander in  CHIEF, couldn't JUICYFRUIT US  damnet ! Perhaps, i'll Ratchet it back a tad, whilst they nurse their wounds

 
 
 
freepress
12  freepress    3 weeks ago

All I have heard from Bush and Trump supporters for years is a demonization of their fellow Americans who are Democrats. They never see Democrats as Americans and that is the actual problem. Democrats serve their country in the military, they serve their communities across the country in local and state elections, they exercise their freedom of religion and are not "demons". Yet the right wing hate machine has ginned up the base where they are assaulting statehouses bearing arms for the decisions on Covid protections especially if there is a Democrat in charge. How is that being tolerant? All they have done is shout "libtard","socialist", "fake news", f**k your feelings", and spread lies and demonize a majority of voters in this country because they are Democrats. Enough. They overlook murderous thugs in Charlottesville and cheer on a murderer like Rittenhouse. They overlook the right wing agitators who have been caught inciting violence so it can be blamed on BLM protests, they ignore any white far right group who have been caught or convicted in these acts. Yet demonize sports figures who kneel. Their support of voter suppression, gerrymandering and attempts to stop the Democratic process to ensure one party rule. Enough. They are the destructive force, the dividing force in America, not the uniting force. So until Fox fake news talking head pundits quit egging them on, or until they face a harsh dose of reality that Democrats are voting to give them health care, give them financial aid, to tax the dead beat corporations to benefit all of America, and to ensure more freedom that includes minorities and will not take their religion or their guns, then I have nothing to say. The real majority in every Presidential election has been the popular vote for Democrats indicating the true will of the people in America. That is what they refuse to accept based on right wing propaganda media. No one is taking your guns, no one is stopping you from going to church wherever you want, no one is coming after you. The popular vote is out in the open and it has never favored the constant onslaught of one party Republican rule. Enough.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
12.1  Bob Nelson  replied to  freepress @12    3 weeks ago

Please break a long text into smaller blocs. This is too hard to bother with. 

 
 
 
Tessylo
12.1.1  Tessylo  replied to  Bob Nelson @12.1    3 weeks ago

That's petty Bob.  It's worth reading if you would just take the time.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
12.1.2  Bob Nelson  replied to  Tessylo @12.1.1    3 weeks ago
It's worth reading if you would just take the time.

That may be, but it's a disservice to readers to format a text like this.

The same text, broken into legible blocs, would be much better received. 

 
 
 
Tessylo
12.1.3  Tessylo  replied to  Bob Nelson @12.1.2    3 weeks ago

It's petty and unnecessary.

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
12.1.4  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Tessylo @12.1.3    3 weeks ago
It's petty and unnecessary.

like me

 
 
 
cjcold
12.1.5  cjcold  replied to  Bob Nelson @12.1    3 weeks ago

Yep. Tend to not read that long-winded stuff myself.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
12.1.6  Bob Nelson  replied to  cjcold @12.1.5    3 weeks ago

Overall length is not a problem. Illegibly long blocs of text are a problem. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
12.1.7  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Bob Nelson @12.1.6    2 weeks ago

The formatting of this particular text didnt bother me. I think it is kind of borderline as representing the unintelligible formatting you refer to. I read the comment though and it was well worth it. 

In general though Bob, I agree with you. Long text of hundreds of words without a paragraph break at some point becomes difficult to read. 

 
 
 
arkpdx
12.2  arkpdx  replied to  freepress @12    3 weeks ago
All I have heard from Bush and Trump supporters for years is a demonization of their fellow Americans who are Democrats

Don't you read what the liberals/progressives/Democrats say about conservatives and Republicans?  We have been called nazis (we are not) klansmen (no we are not) racists(nope) ignorant (wrong again) deplorable, and many other evil and vile names and descriptions. Your whole comment is nothing but so much BS!

 
 
 
cjcold
12.2.1  cjcold  replied to  arkpdx @12.2    3 weeks ago

Actually many conservatives embody all of those vile deplorable attributes.

 
 
 
MsAubrey (aka Ahyoka)
12.3  MsAubrey (aka Ahyoka)  replied to  freepress @12    3 weeks ago
f**k your feelings

But that's a really funny song.

 
 
 
Tessylo
13  Tessylo    3 weeks ago

124030781_3628220463902956_3402434114464147037_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=2&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=OAFVJGytKuIAX82zOcv&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=4d1ad16daf895216eb3b64fe83d47c30&oe=5FCCEE77

 
 
 
Tessylo
14  Tessylo    3 weeks ago

124063126_10159303351751844_7970208868177134100_o.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=2&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=Eq-PTTC2uyQAX8v6K6R&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=197febe56fb1a69d5fb77c7977251356&oe=5FCDD834

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
15  Just Jim NC TttH    3 weeks ago

256

 
 
 
Ronin2
15.1  Ronin2  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @15    3 weeks ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Kavika
15.1.1  Kavika   replied to  Ronin2 @15.1    3 weeks ago

Trump lost MI, bigly. He lost in almost every category. He even lost Kent county. I'm sure that they are a lot of those fucking leftist Brown Shirts there. 

Anyhow, you have a great evening, ya hear.

Cheers.

 
 
 
Texan1211
15.1.2  Texan1211  replied to  Kavika @15.1.1    3 weeks ago

Bigly?

 
 
 
Kavika
15.1.3  Kavika   replied to  Texan1211 @15.1.2    3 weeks ago

Yes indeed, BIGLY. 

About 14 times as many votes then Trump won MI in 2016 and they're still counting. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
15.1.4  Texan1211  replied to  Kavika @15.1.3    3 weeks ago

 14 times??

WTF?

Where do you get THAT number from?

Michigan 2016 Trump 2.279 million    Clinton 2.268 million

Michigan 2020  Trump 2.464 million    Biden 2.795 million

Hardly 14 times, even using new math!

Did that number actually make sense to you when you KNOW that it was close in Michigan?

 
 
 
Kavika
15.1.5  Kavika   replied to  Texan1211 @15.1.4    3 weeks ago

 

Trump beat Clinton by 10,000 votes in 2016. Biden beat Trump by 140,000 plus votes in 2020.

Yup, 14 times Trump margin of victory and they're still counting so it could end up ever bigger margin than Trump's in 2016.

Have a great day.

 
 
 
MAGA
15.1.6  MAGA  replied to  Kavika @15.1.5    3 weeks ago

No we don’t have to apologize for anything at all and we won’t.  There will be no national unity unless TRUMP supporters are included no questions asked and with no preconditions 

 
 
 
cjcold
15.1.7  cjcold  replied to  Ronin2 @15.1    3 weeks ago
leftist Brown Shirts

Actually, brown shirts are far right wing Nazis. Please get your insults straight.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
15.1.8  Bob Nelson  replied to  MAGA @15.1.6    3 weeks ago
 no questions asked and with no preconditions 

This is like Christ's Commandment to love one another. I must love Donald Trump. 

But Christ did not command us to be stupid, naive, or forgetful. Christ forbids me to judge the man, but I am free to judge his behavior. I find it despicable. 

Nearly half of all Americans supported Trump. You are right that they must be welcomed (back??) into democratic society. But small-d democrats would be stupid to forget that these people have loudly proclaimed their desire to replace democracy with authoritarianism.

It is up to former Trump supporters to show their adhesion to democratic principles.

 
 
 
Kavika
15.1.9  Kavika   replied to  MAGA @15.1.6    2 weeks ago
No we don’t have to apologize for anything at all and we won’t.  There will be no national unity unless TRUMP supporters are included no questions asked and with no preconditions 

I didn't ask you to apologize and really don't care if you do or don't. [Deleted]

 
 
 
Gordy327
15.1.10  Gordy327  replied to  MAGA @15.1.6    2 weeks ago

Yeah, one usually needs a modicum of humility and honesty to offer a sincere apology. Those qualities seem to be conspicuously lacking in certain Trump supporters.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
15.1.11  author  JohnRussell  replied to  MAGA @15.1.6    2 weeks ago
No we don’t have to apologize for anything at all and we won’t.  There will be no national unity unless TRUMP supporters are included no questions asked and with no preconditions 

There is only one reason to "include" Trump supporters in anything, and that is in the US Senate. Biden will have to compromise with Trump supporters in the Senate if he has any hope of passing legislation, at least in the first two years. 

As far as "including" the average unhinged Trump cultist who we see on social media all the time, uh, hell no. 

 
 
 
dennis smith
15.1.12  dennis smith  replied to  Texan1211 @15.1.4    2 weeks ago

That is Dem math, spun to fit a falsehood

 
 
 
dennis smith
15.1.13  dennis smith  replied to  Bob Nelson @15.1.8    2 weeks ago

Unlike the former Obama supporters did when Trump was elected.

 
 
 
Greg Jones
16  Greg Jones    3 weeks ago

The Democrats have caused irreparable wounds against our Democracy. Don't expect any forgiveness, understanding, or cooperation from Trump supporters....only resistance

 
 
 
JBB
16.1  JBB  replied to  Greg Jones @16    3 weeks ago

256

 
 
 
Texan1211
16.1.1  Texan1211  replied to  JBB @16.1    3 weeks ago

Democrats, 2016-Election Day, 2020  "Election was stolen! Russian/Trump Collusion!" 

Democrats Election day, 2020  "There is no way any voter fraud could POSSIBLY happen!"

 
 
 
JBB
16.1.2  JBB  replied to  Texan1211 @16.1.1    3 weeks ago

256

 
 
 
pat wilson
16.2  pat wilson  replied to  Greg Jones @16    3 weeks ago

Let's see :

The Republicans had full control of Congress, the White House and a conservative majority Supreme Court. Then in 2018 they lost the house but still merrily continued appointing judges on all levels, gerrymandering state voting districts and sealing control of many state legislatures.

Tell me again how the Democrats caused irreparable wounds ( that's a bit melodramatic ) against our Democracy ( Democratic Republic )

 
 
 
dennis smith
16.2.1  dennis smith  replied to  pat wilson @16.2    2 weeks ago

By an impeachment that was fruitless, by a 2 year Mueller investigation that was fruitless.

Trump was innocent of both, just the Dems in the House carrying a temper tantrum due to hatred of Hillary losing.

 
 
 
Gordy327
16.2.2  Gordy327  replied to  dennis smith @16.2.1    2 weeks ago

And now it's largely Republicans throwing a tantrum because Trump lost the election. Both by popular and electoral votes.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
16.2.3  Vic Eldred  replied to  Gordy327 @16.2.2    2 weeks ago

No Gordy, It's largely the same people who rioted when they lost trying to gloat over what was supposed to be a blowout.

 
 
 
Gordy327
16.2.4  Gordy327  replied to  Vic Eldred @16.2.3    2 weeks ago

No Vic it's mostly Republicans who are screaming about the "election being stolen" or voter fraud, ect.. Most do not seem to be calling for Trump to simply concede, like any rational person would do. Many simply parrot Trump's complaints and accusations. It has been over a week now since the election. At this point, further complaining and lack of acquiescence is just an embarrassment to the office of the Presidency and it's supporters.

 
 
 
dennis smith
16.2.5  dennis smith  replied to  Gordy327 @16.2.2    2 weeks ago

First - The popular vote has nothing to do with who is elected POTUS yet you feel a need to mention that FACT.

Second - There will not be endless investigations into Biden by the Repubs. As the Dems did to Trump as they would just be witchhunts.

 
 
 
TᵢG
16.2.6  TᵢG  replied to  dennis smith @16.2.5    2 weeks ago
The popular vote has nothing to do with who is elected POTUS

Correct, but it does reflect the popular sentiment of the electorate.   It is not incorrect to note popularity metrics.

 
 
 
Gordy327
16.2.7  Gordy327  replied to  dennis smith @16.2.5    2 weeks ago

First, I am aware the popular vote doesn't determine the election. Neither did I say it did. But it does show how voters actually feel about a candidate. And yes, I did feel a need to mention that FACT!

Second, on what basis do you make that assertion? Based on current events involving claims of fraud or "stealing the election" and whatnot, it seems Republicans are poised to conduct the proverbial witch-hunt against Biden. But time will tell.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
16.2.8  Vic Eldred  replied to  Gordy327 @16.2.4    2 weeks ago
No Vic it's mostly Republicans who are screaming about the "election being stolen" or voter fraud, ect..

No, Gordy it's the President questioning the result. He's entitled to that.

He has about 2 months left to serve. You're gloating & taunting Gordy

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
16.2.9  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Gordy327 @16.2.7    2 weeks ago
Republicans are poised to conduct the proverbial witch-hunt against Biden.

It's a goose/gander thing. Do you remember November/December and a few weeks beyond in 2016/17?

 
 
 
dennis smith
16.2.10  dennis smith  replied to  TᵢG @16.2.6    2 weeks ago

Why then did you bring up the popular vote?

 
 
 
Gordy327
16.2.11  Gordy327  replied to  Vic Eldred @16.2.8    2 weeks ago
No, Gordy it's the President questioning the result. He's entitled to that.

Whining about the election being stolen or fraud is not "questioning" the result. It's throwing a tantrum for losing. At this point, there is no question. It is very highly unlikely that enough states in question will turn to make any significant difference to the outcome of the election. The election is simply not that close. TiG explained it quite well in his article here . If he were gracious, he would concede.

He has about 2 months left to serve. 

Yes, I am aware of that. I didn't say otherwise. Your point?

You're gloating & taunting Gordy

No, I'm just pointing out facts!

 
 
 
Gordy327
16.2.12  Gordy327  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @16.2.9    2 weeks ago
It's a goose/gander thing.

How juvenile. No wonder there is so much partisanship and divisiveness in this country.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
16.2.13  Vic Eldred  replied to  Gordy327 @16.2.11    2 weeks ago

Again the President has every legal right to do it. You've heard of the Law, right?

Anyone doubting the left gloating or the left's inability to reason need only look at the inflammatory title of this seed.

 
 
 
Gordy327
16.2.14  Gordy327  replied to  Vic Eldred @16.2.13    2 weeks ago

I'm not disputing the President has the right to challenge the results. That wasn't the point.

As for anyone gloating or the left, you're the one who brought it up, not me. It's otherwise irrelevant. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
16.2.15  TᵢG  replied to  dennis smith @16.2.10    2 weeks ago
Why then did you bring up the popular vote?

First, Gordy brought it up.

Second, the comment you replied to TiG @16.2.6 answered your question.   Did you not even read my comment before replying??

TiG @16.2.6Correct, but it does reflect the popular sentiment of the electorate.   It is not incorrect to note popularity metrics.

It is perfectly reasonable to note who won the popular vote because that reflects the popular sentiment of the electorate.   It does not elect the PotUS but it reflects the sentiment of the nation as a whole (as opposed to a federated union of states).

See?   The popular vote is an extremely accurate (vs. polls) sentiment of the nation as a whole regarding the PotUS.

 
 
 
Gordy327
16.3  Gordy327  replied to  Greg Jones @16    3 weeks ago

How seditious! 

 
 
 
cjcold
16.4  cjcold  replied to  Greg Jones @16    3 weeks ago

Trump is dead. Find another worthless cause.

 
 
 
dennis smith
16.4.1  dennis smith  replied to  cjcold @16.4    2 weeks ago

Trump is dead? No he is your President. 

 
 
 
MAGA
16.4.2  MAGA  replied to  dennis smith @16.4.1    2 weeks ago

https://www.instagram.com/p/CHf2IhggJhv/?igshid=19tnfzk88kh85

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
16.4.3  Bob Nelson  replied to  MAGA @16.4.2    2 weeks ago

Instagram requires a login. Please post the content here, directly. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
16.4.4  TᵢG  replied to  Bob Nelson @16.4.3    2 weeks ago

(shh ... let him waste his time)

 
 
 
Gordy327
16.4.5  Gordy327  replied to  TᵢG @16.4.4    2 weeks ago

(While he thinks he's making some point.)

 
 
 
Tessylo
17  Tessylo    3 weeks ago

124553847_3977095295635445_70381057298005969_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=2&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=uSg5aTLW3X4AX-gwpvq&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=6538bf118c786e3843ada08072a945b2&oe=5FCDB4F5

 
 
 
arkpdx
17.1  arkpdx  replied to  Tessylo @17    3 weeks ago

Gee there is the old Democrat double standard again. For months democrat leaders and other liberals were telling Biden not to concede and wait until every single vote has been counted and every irregularity ironed out clear to the bitter end but now they want Trump to concede before then. 

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
17.1.1  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  arkpdx @17.1    3 weeks ago
For months democrat leaders and other liberals were telling Biden not to concede and wait until every single vote has been counted and every irregularity ironed out clear to the bitter end

? What are you talking about? The election was just last Tuesday, it hasn't even been a week yet. For "months" now the polls have had Biden in the lead by large margins so no one was telling Biden he shouldn't "concede", most were just trying not to get too optimistic about the poll numbers. In the end Biden won both the electoral college and the popular vote as nearly every elected President in our history have done save for five exceptions. This election did take a little longer to count votes since in PA they couldn't even start counting the millions of mail in ballots till after the election, but we got there in the end and the winner is clear. Only sad sore losers are desperately clinging to the frivolous lawsuits being filed in half a dozen States which have zero evidence of any widespread fraud or any valid legal challenge to the election results which is why they will quickly be thrown out of court. Continuing with the farcical lawsuits is like an inferior chess player who already knows he's lost just desperately shuffling his King back and forth merely delaying the inevitable checkmate.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
17.1.2  Sean Treacy  replied to  arkpdx @17.1    3 weeks ago
Yep,

"Joe Biden should not concede under any circumstances"  Hillary Clinton 

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
17.1.3  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Sean Treacy @17.1.2    3 weeks ago

he sounds conceited 

 
 
 
dennis smith
17.1.4  dennis smith  replied to  Sean Treacy @17.1.2    2 weeks ago

Some have selective memories

 
 
 
dennis smith
17.2  dennis smith  replied to  Tessylo @17    2 weeks ago

Why do you talk like that to Biden, he did not lose.

 
 
 
Greg Jones
19  Greg Jones    3 weeks ago

Gore didn't concede until December 13th....no need to rush things

 
 
 
TᵢG
19.1  TᵢG  replied to  Greg Jones @19    3 weeks ago

That was a razor thin election which came down to one county in one state where voting machine flaws (hanging chads) could have made a difference in the results.

With the current counts, there is no path to victory for Trump without an historic finding of electoral fraud/mistake across multiple states.  It would be the greatest failure of our electoral system ever ... something that we have never even come close to.   While anything is possible, anyone who holds hope that the election results will be reversed is being ridiculous.  

The election is decisively over.   There is no point continuing with gratuitous lawsuits.   Trump continues to fan the embers to stroke his bruised ego while encouraging his most gullible supporters to act in ugly ways.

Rational people seem to not take any of these lawsuits seriously.   The USA and the rest of the nations on the planet have recognized Biden as the president-elect.   Those who hold out hope for a reversal are relegated to the ridiculous.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
19.1.1  Bob Nelson  replied to  TᵢG @19.1    3 weeks ago

Well stated. 

 
 
 
MUVA
20  MUVA    3 weeks ago

Here's my apology to leftist go fuck yourselves more to come later.

 
 
 
JBB
20.1  JBB  replied to  MUVA @20    3 weeks ago

May we can assume Trump's loss upsets you?

 
 
 
MUVA
20.1.1  MUVA  replied to  JBB @20.1    3 weeks ago

No.I changing my apology I’m sorry my success makes some leftist mad to the point they want to tax my success to buy health care and free college for them or their kids. I’m also sorry my support has made those same leftist mad to the point they want me punished.

 
 
 
MUVA
20.1.2  MUVA  replied to  JBB @20.1    3 weeks ago

I’m going to be real for one second what ever happen I will still take a two month vacation as always and continue with my fabulous life but thanks for asking.

 
 
 
JBB
20.1.3  JBB  replied to  MUVA @20.1.1    3 weeks ago

Basically it comes down to you not wanting to pay taxes yet you admit you are doing very well. You don't know me but I can assure you that during my career I paid many times more than you ever will. Enough that I retired long ago very comfortably. Those years when I paid hundreds of thousands in taxes were very very good years. You shouldn't look at it the way you do. The more taxes you pay the richer you get. I wish I paid more taxes than Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg, Elan Musk and Warren Buffett combined. You should too...

 
 
 
JBB
20.1.4  JBB  replied to  MUVA @20.1.2    3 weeks ago

Isn't that special...

 
 
 
MUVA
20.1.5  MUVA  replied to  JBB @20.1.4    3 weeks ago

I think it is actually thanks again.

 
 
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