Mike Pompeo undermined America’s democracy in one press conference

  

Category:  News & Politics

Via:  gsquared  •  2 weeks ago  •  151 comments

Mike Pompeo undermined America’s democracy in one press conference
It took only two answers for Secretary of State Mike Pompeo to undermine America’s democratic example during a Tuesday press conference.

Pompeo has made himself into a complete joke.  

 


S E E D E D   C O N T E N T



It took only two answers for Secretary of State Mike Pompeo to undermine America’s democratic example during a Tuesday press conference.

The nation’s top diplomat   briefed reporters   on some of his agency’s new initiatives. But he had to know he’d get questions on   President Donald Trump’s refusal to concede   the 2020 election and his administration’s refusal to initiate the   transition process   to hand over power to President-elect Joe Biden.

Sure enough, a journalist asked whether a delay in the State Department’s transition efforts would harm national security. Instead of answering the question, Pompeo used the opportunity to undermine the election results.

“There will be a smooth transition to a second Trump administration,” he said, seemingly implying he expects his boss to prevail despite already having lost the race. He then chuckled, suggesting perhaps he was joking. (I contacted the State Department for clarification but didn’t immediately hear back.)

But joke or no, the president of the United States and his allies actively undermining the peaceful, democratic transfer of power is no laughing matter, and certainly not something the secretary of state should be making light of.

Biden has won the race , and by a significant margin. Trump’s legal play to dismiss “illegal” votes isn’t working — in fact, judges are throwing out cases across the country — and they likely   aren’t robust enough to change anything , anyway. Furthermore, global leaders, like   Canada’s Justin Trudeau and Germany’s Angela Merkel , have already called Biden to congratulate him on his victory.

Suggesting otherwise, even jokingly, is extremely inappropriate for the secretary of state, whose job involves standing up for and promoting democracy worldwide.

Pompeo’s follow-up comments were a bit more measured. “The world is watching what’s taking place here. We’re gonna count all the votes. When the process is complete, there will be electors selected. There’s a process; the Constitution lays it out pretty clearly,” Pompeo said. “The world should have every confidence that the transition necessary to make sure that the State Department is functional today, successful today, and successful with a president who’s in office on January 20, a minute after noon, will also be successful.”

But when another reporter asked if Trump’s refusal to concede was hurting the State Department’s messaging to other nations that elections should be conducted and finalized freely, fairly, and democratically, Pompeo erupted.

“That’s ridiculous, and you know it’s ridiculous, and you asked it because it’s ridiculous,” he asserted. “You asked a question that is ridiculous.”

“The department cares deeply to make sure that elections around the world are safe and secure, and free and fair, and my officers risk their lives that that happens,” he continued.

Except the question wasn’t ridiculous.

Pompeo and his agency frequently criticize other countries’ democratic failures — take, for instance,   Pompeo’s recent messages to Tanzania and Belarus   — while watching the US president do the same thing at home. And now, based on Pompeo’s remarks, the State Department is actually defending those actions.

This is a bad look for America. Trump’s behavior, and Pompeo’s apparent support for it, makes it harder for the US to tell other countries to abide by democratic norms. If the US doesn’t follow those norms, why should others?

What all this says about the state of America is extremely troubling: The president and secretary of state aren’t doing much better than the undemocratic leaders they lambaste.

 


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Gsquared
1  seeder  Gsquared    2 weeks ago

Pompeo is a man completely unworthy of holding any office in government.

 
 
 
Tessylo
1.1  Tessylo  replied to  Gsquared @1    2 weeks ago

Just like the current 'president'

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
2  Right Down the Center    2 weeks ago

"Undermined America’s Democracy"?

Really?  You forgot the sky is falling. 

 
 
 
Gsquared
2.1  seeder  Gsquared  replied to  Right Down the Center @2    2 weeks ago

The entire corrupt Trump presidency has been an exercise in undermining America's democracy.  Pompeo is a slavish sycophant and a Trump tool.  

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
2.1.1  Right Down the Center  replied to  Gsquared @2.1    2 weeks ago

He got legally voted in and now it looks like he may have legally been voted out.  Quite the exercise in undermining America's democracy.

 
 
 
Texan1211
2.1.2  Texan1211  replied to  Right Down the Center @2.1.1    2 weeks ago

I don't think facts like that actually matter anymore if they don't support absurd theories.

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
2.1.3  Right Down the Center  replied to  Gsquared @2.1    2 weeks ago

Want to see a good example of trying to undermine America's democracy? 

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
2.1.4  Right Down the Center  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.2    2 weeks ago

Facts never seem to matter to the far left.  Time for the democrat party to knock their party back towards the center.

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
2.1.5  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Right Down the Center @2.1.3    2 weeks ago

other than Trump, No.

 
 
 
Gsquared
2.1.6  seeder  Gsquared  replied to  Right Down the Center @2.1.1    2 weeks ago

Trump may have failed in his efforts to undermine our democracy, but he is still trying as of this moment.

 
 
 
Gsquared
2.1.7  seeder  Gsquared  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.2    2 weeks ago

Absurd theories like Trump was cheated out of winning re-election...

 
 
 
Gsquared
2.1.8  seeder  Gsquared  replied to  Right Down the Center @2.1.3    2 weeks ago

Your cited article proves nothing.

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
2.1.9  Right Down the Center  replied to  igknorantzrulz @2.1.5    2 weeks ago

Hiding your head in the sand?  Let me guess, you are a liberal.jrSmiley_81_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
2.1.10  Right Down the Center  replied to  Gsquared @2.1.8    2 weeks ago

Actually it proves the democrats were trying to subvert the electoral college in 2016 thereby undermining  our democracy.

 
 
 
Gsquared
2.1.11  seeder  Gsquared  replied to  Right Down the Center @2.1.4    2 weeks ago

"Alternative facts" are all the Trumpists have.  Time for the republic party to choose reality.

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
2.1.12  Right Down the Center  replied to  Gsquared @2.1.6    2 weeks ago

He is doing what are his legal options.  And when things are investigated and the votes are finally certified he will be on his merry way.  Nothing to see here, no matter how loud the media screams about it.

 
 
 
Texan1211
2.1.13  Texan1211  replied to  Gsquared @2.1.7    2 weeks ago

If you have seen anything I have posted that even comes close to resembling that, QUOTE ME.

And since we both know you can't, take it somewhere else.

 
 
 
Gsquared
2.1.14  seeder  Gsquared  replied to  Right Down the Center @2.1.9    2 weeks ago

Throwing sand in people's eyes to hide the truth?  No need to guess, you are a right-winger.

 
 
 
Gsquared
2.1.15  seeder  Gsquared  replied to  Right Down the Center @2.1.10    2 weeks ago

Apparently, you are not aware of the constitutional powers provided to electors.

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
2.1.16  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Right Down the Center @2.1.1    2 weeks ago
He got legally voted in

Yes, and Hillary conceded November 9th, 2016 even though she lost by far fewer votes than Trump has. She lost by a total of 110,000 votes in three battleground States whereas Trump has lost by over 300,000 votes in those battleground States. After Hillary conceded the Obama administration immediately started a smooth transfer of power as required by our constitution.

he may have legally been voted out

Funny that a self proclaimed "centrist" is still hanging onto the fantasy that Trump hasn't lost yet. The facts are clear, Trump LOST! He is a loser, always has been. The sooner he and his gaggle of sycophants get that through their heads the better, the longer they drag this out the less safe they make America. Only weak whiny sniveling morons would continue to claim Trump hasn't lost yet, the numbers are in, no amount of lawsuits being filed will reverse that. True American patriots who make up the majority of American citizens have spoken in overwhelming numbers and they have rejected Trump and the sick deluded worthless ideology of Trumpism. Refusing to accept that reality just exposes a persons leaning toward fascism which is synonymous with Trumpism and the opposite of democracy.

 
 
 
Gsquared
2.1.17  seeder  Gsquared  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.13    2 weeks ago

You are free to post your comments somewhere else.

 
 
 
Texan1211
2.1.18  Texan1211  replied to  Gsquared @2.1.17    2 weeks ago

I damn sure am, with or without your permission.

So are you, right?

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
2.1.19  Right Down the Center  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @2.1.16    2 weeks ago

Technically speaking it isn't over until the states certify the results.  Until then there is no actual president elect.  That is true for both democrats and republicans, it is a fact no matter how much you don't like it.  Personally I don't think there will be any changes but facts are facts.  

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
2.1.20  Right Down the Center  replied to  Gsquared @2.1.15    2 weeks ago

Au contraire, I am well aware of the powers.  Are you?  

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
2.1.21  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Right Down the Center @2.1.19    2 weeks ago
Technically speaking it isn't over until the states certify the results.  Until then there is no actual president elect.

I'm sure you'd be singing the same tune if Hillary had refused to concede and demanded recounts in the States which were close, right? You would have been telling the Trump supporters to just relax and let the loser drag out the process for as long as legally possible, right? And no one on the right would have been calling her and Democrats "sore losers" for doing so, right?

 
 
 
Tessylo
2.1.22  Tessylo  replied to  Right Down the Center @2.1.1    2 weeks ago
"it looks like he may have legally been voted out"

It doesn't look like he may have been - HE HAS BEEN 

 
 
 
Tessylo
2.1.23  Tessylo  replied to  Gsquared @2.1.11    2 weeks ago
"Alternative facts" are all the Trumpists have."

That and projection and deflection and denial

 
 
 
Greg Jones
2.1.24  Greg Jones  replied to  Gsquared @2.1.17    2 weeks ago
You are free to post your comments somewhere else.

Sounds like you're losing the argument

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
2.1.25  Right Down the Center  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @2.1.21    2 weeks ago

Yes I would

Yes I would

I can't speak for those on the right but I believe they would be calling her a sore loser.

 
 
 
Gsquared
2.1.26  seeder  Gsquared  replied to  Greg Jones @2.1.24    2 weeks ago

Argument about absurd theories?  Your absurd theory is real a winner...  

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
2.1.27  Right Down the Center  replied to  Tessylo @2.1.22    2 weeks ago

How many states have officially certified their results?  

 
 
 
Tessylo
2.1.28  Tessylo  replied to  Right Down the Center @2.1.27    2 weeks ago

GAME OVER MAN!  Just accept it!

 
 
 
Tessylo
2.1.29  Tessylo  replied to  Right Down the Center @2.1.27    2 weeks ago

124790004_3979180212093620_4082988676993941759_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=2&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=a8V3_fKPVCcAX8VMvOV&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&tp=6&oh=1d1ea9e48e5f1f2852ff7fc25c1a08b9&oe=5FD352CE

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
2.1.30  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Right Down the Center @2.1.9    2 weeks ago
Hiding your head in the sand?

Ever have Ostrich Steak and Eggs ? I ate the whole family, but what a fckn view, KNOW , cause ewe do not articulate in a manner that suggests as much, as you know, about Not knowing, No ?

 
 
 
Kavika
3  Kavika     2 weeks ago

Pompeo will be looking for a job soon. So he can babble as much as he wants it only shows what a hack he is.

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
3.1  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Kavika @3    2 weeks ago

total POS

 
 
 
devangelical
3.2  devangelical  replied to  Kavika @3    2 weeks ago

mike and the mrs. will be looking at some hatch act violations to start off 2021, along with many other trump officials. bummer, huh?

 
 
 
evilgenius
3.2.1  evilgenius  replied to  devangelical @3.2    2 weeks ago

I don't see the new admin, stressing a msg of coming together and healing, to be willing to pursue something like Hatch Act violations. Joe won't get cross isle participation in Congress if his admin is prosecuting ex-Trump officials with something as base as this. 

 
 
 
devangelical
3.2.2  devangelical  replied to  evilgenius @3.2.1    2 weeks ago

it's a valuable negotiation tool(s) that shouldn't be discarded. how many times do democrats have to learn being charitable for the sake of unity doesn't work with them. don't give republicans anything until they show they're willing to start new and move forward after the election. that isn't being demonstrated as of yet. we'll have 4 years of gridlock unless a gun is held to their figurative heads.

 
 
 
Ender
3.2.3  Ender  replied to  devangelical @3.2.2    2 weeks ago

You know McConnell is going to do everything in his power to make sure nothing can get done.

 
 
 
devangelical
3.2.4  devangelical  replied to  Ender @3.2.3    2 weeks ago

my point exactly. GOPers are telegraphing how cooperative they plan on being the next 4 years.

 
 
 
Ender
3.2.5  Ender  replied to  devangelical @3.2.4    2 weeks ago

Oh I know. They never planned on any kind of cooperation or doing anything other than what they think can benefit them.

The country itself is an after thought.

 
 
 
evilgenius
3.2.6  evilgenius  replied to  devangelical @3.2.2    2 weeks ago
how many times do democrats have to learn being charitable for the sake of unity doesn't work with them.

I think you are looking at this slightly wrong. It's not that they don't know it won't work. I believe they do. The messaging is for the electorate and not Congress. What they need to learn is that every time the GOP tries to screw them they need to beat them to the messaging. Historically the Dems have been bad at that where the GOP has been much better. Maybe now that Fox News won't have to play nice with Trump and the worst of his followers will go elsewhere, the rest of the flock might get actual news once in a while... Okay I'm an optimist. LOL!

 
 
 
Split Personality
3.3  Split Personality  replied to  Kavika @3    2 weeks ago

Wasn't he going to primary in 2024?

That video will come back to haunt him.

 
 
 
devangelical
3.3.1  devangelical  replied to  Split Personality @3.3    2 weeks ago

pffft, he got in on one of those ukranian natural gas leases, he won't need a job.

 
 
 
Tacos!
4  Tacos!    2 weeks ago

Even if you think Trump might prevail, why not proceed with the Biden transition in case you’re wrong, for the good of the country?

 
 
 
Gsquared
4.1  seeder  Gsquared  replied to  Tacos! @4    2 weeks ago

Trump and his cronies have NEVER had the good of the country in mind.

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
4.2  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Tacos! @4    2 weeks ago

think G squared you up\

 
 
 
Tacos!
4.2.1  Tacos!  replied to  igknorantzrulz @4.2    2 weeks ago

How so?

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
4.2.2  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Tacos! @4.2.1    2 weeks ago

[removed]

 
 
 
Ronin2
4.3  Ronin2  replied to  Tacos! @4    2 weeks ago

Because this isn't about the good of the country.

This is about payback for a bunch of spoiled brat Democrats that have spent the last 5 years making a former spoiled brat Democrat's life a hell.  Not that Trump can't do that all by himself.

Frankly I find it hilarious. The Democrats are finding out what it is like to be on the receiving end of one of their tantrums for a change.

As for the country- nothing is going to divide us any more than we already are. When the Democrats are pretending that Covid 19 was caused by Trump; and not the CCP negligence and lying- then there is nothing left to discuss. Especially when Europe- that Democrats love- is facing a second round of Covid 19 that is every bit as equal to what we have here. Seems those smart Europeans were as dumb as Trump.

So now the Dems love China- who have the capability of going full draconian to stamp out a pandemic. Too bad they didn't do that to start with- of course Trump would still be President then; so win/win for China.

 
 
 
Ender
4.3.1  Ender  replied to  Ronin2 @4.3    2 weeks ago

Wow...

So you think it is appropriate for the leader of the free world to throw a temper tantrum and initiate 'payback' to his political enemies?

Contrary to right wing belief, Dems do not think he caused it, we think he made it worse by downplaying it and giving out a ton of false information...

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
4.3.2  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Ronin2 @4.3    2 weeks ago
Democrats are pretending that Covid 19 was caused by Trump

No one is pretending that, the facts show that Trump refused to tell the American people about the real dangers of Covid which he knew months before he said anything. Donald Trumps handling of the virus has cost tens of thousands of American lives. He has blood on his hands for his dismal mismanagement of the pandemic. He continues to recklessly refuse to support even the most basic safety measures. Trump is a con man, a disaster, a steaming pile of shit that half the nation stepped in and are now pretending they're not covered in stinking fly ridden feces. Trumps sycophants need to put their big boy pants on and accept reality, but no rational Americans actually expect any of these petulant losers to do so.

 
 
 
TᵢG
4.3.3  TᵢG  replied to  Ender @4.3.1    2 weeks ago
… he made it worse by downplaying it and giving out a ton of false information …

Exactly!

 
 
 
MUVA
4.3.4  MUVA  replied to  Ender @4.3.1    2 weeks ago

What the hell do you think Obama and his state cronies did to Trump with the whole Russian hoax.

 
 
 
Ender
4.3.5  Ender  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @4.3.2    2 weeks ago

Well, he did give his cronies enough time to adjust their stock market portfolios...

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
4.3.6  igknorantzrulz  replied to  TᵢG @4.3.3    2 weeks ago

"what's the worse that could happen"  Tens of thousands of innocent people have died because again, Trump Lied. Sorta remember a time when you could believe the President of the United States when it came down to a Life or Death predicament (not speaking of Rice or Cheney) facing the American populous, cause it made sense they would have the interest of not seeing their own constituents Die, but, Trump does/did not care then, nor will he, as his motivation has only one constituent.

 
 
 
Ender
4.3.7  Ender  replied to  MUVA @4.3.4    2 weeks ago

[removed]

 
 
 
MUVA
4.3.8  MUVA  replied to  TᵢG @4.3.3    2 weeks ago

No he really didn’t that is CNN nonsense it’s not rational  thinking with the evidence at hand.We almost have a vaccine under his administration along with therapeutics ventilators PPE and a decent economy despite the CNN miss information campaign things are looking good lower death rate lower bad outcomes.

 
 
 
TᵢG
4.3.9  TᵢG  replied to  MUVA @4.3.4    2 weeks ago

It is wrong to push fake information regardless of who is doing it.

Or are you of the opinion that Trump did not downplay the severity of the virus, the need for precaution and give false information?

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
4.3.10  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  MUVA @4.3.4    2 weeks ago

What Russian hoax?

Senate committee concludes Russia used Manafort, WikiLeaks to boost Trump in 2016

G.O.P.-Led Senate Panel Details Ties Between 2016 Trump Campaign and Russia

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
4.3.11  igknorantzrulz  replied to  TᵢG @4.3.9    2 weeks ago

oh C'mon, where is your proof Trump downplayed this couple of people, as it might just dissappear in a few weeks, or, go on to KILL TENS OF THOUSANDS OF AMERICANS, and many needlessly DIES, cause Trum,p LIED

 
 
 
TᵢG
4.3.12  TᵢG  replied to  MUVA @4.3.8    2 weeks ago
No he really didn’t that is CNN nonsense it’s not rational  thinking with the evidence at hand.

How can you possibly not know that Trump portrayed the virus as nothing more than the flu, that it would fade away, that mask wearing is not that important that businesses should just open up? 

This kind of blindness is troublesome;  too many people ignore facts that they wish did not exist.   That leads to irrational conclusions and consequent bad actions.

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
4.3.13  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @4.3.10    2 weeks ago

STOP ! what are they going to do with FACTS ?

 
 
 
MUVA
4.3.14  MUVA  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @4.3.10    2 weeks ago

No false, untrue ,CNN BS nobody was convicted or even charged with conspiracy so no you are wrong.

 
 
 
TᵢG
4.3.15  TᵢG  replied to  igknorantzrulz @4.3.11    2 weeks ago

I know, this is just incredible.   I could Google to get the videos of Trump saying these things but clearly that would be ignored too.

   jrSmiley_78_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
MUVA
4.3.16  MUVA  replied to  TᵢG @4.3.12    2 weeks ago

I know what Trump said and what the media convinced you he said. I know that till March the CDC told people not to wear  mask.Shit one person from the CDC told people they could do tender hookups ,protest and go on cruises and he was the one that advised Trump.I will not accept leftist propaganda as truth.

 
 
 
Ender
4.3.17  Ender  replied to  MUVA @4.3.16    2 weeks ago

Meaning...I will only listen to right wing news and look for confirmation bias.

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
4.3.18  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  MUVA @4.3.14    2 weeks ago
No false, untrue ,CNN BS

Neither of the links I provided were from CNN. The GOP Senate run investigation concluded that yes, Russia did in fact coordinate with the Trump campaign and dozens of Russian operatives are under indictment. While Manafort did go to prison for a number of financial crimes (Trump only hires the best, right?) it has been proved by a Republican led Senate investigation that Russia used Republican political operative Paul Manafort and the WikiLeaks website to try to help now-U.S. President Donald Trump win the 2016 election. These are indisputable facts and no amount of ignorant whining and sniveling will change that.

 
 
 
TᵢG
4.3.19  TᵢG  replied to  MUVA @4.3.16    2 weeks ago
I know what Trump said and what the media convinced you he said.

Clearly you do not.   I am going by what I heard Trump say, not what people have reported.   I base my opinions on hard evidence.

If you were seriously interested in the truth you would Google the videos and watch Trump downplay the severity of the pandemic.   To not know that he did this routinely is to miss a major factor in what took place in 2020.   And, frankly, I consider it inexcusable that an adult would not know this.

 
 
 
MUVA
4.3.20  MUVA  replied to  Ender @4.3.17    2 weeks ago

No it means CNN and the alphabet other channels are treated as propaganda there are plenty of news sources that haven’t become a arm of the democrat party you should try a few.

 
 
 
MUVA
4.3.21  MUVA  replied to  TᵢG @4.3.19    2 weeks ago

Personal insults aside I have watched what he said and it doesn’t match your opinion of what he said you can believe what you want I don’t have too Agee with your opinion.

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
4.3.22  igknorantzrulz  replied to  MUVA @4.3.20    2 weeks ago

Right...?

 
 
 
Ender
4.3.23  Ender  replied to  MUVA @4.3.20    2 weeks ago

Uh huh, sure. Everything is fake news except right wing news...

I suppose you have a list of your acceptable sources?

I would like to see what you think is credible.

 
 
 
Tessylo
4.3.24  Tessylo  replied to  Ender @4.3.5    2 weeks ago
"Well, he did give his cronies enough time to adjust their stock market portfolios..."

Indeed, I posted an article about that but it never got any traction.  I believe that was in the midst of the October surprise - the Ghouliani manufactured Hunter Biden lap top scandal.  

 
 
 
Ender
4.3.25  Ender  replied to  TᵢG @4.3.19    2 weeks ago

I cannot fathom how people can listen to his words and watch his deeds yet are somehow blind to it all. See something completely different than what he actually says.

 
 
 
MUVA
4.3.26  MUVA  replied to  Ender @4.3.23    2 weeks ago

I didn’t post that but CNN and the other alphabet channels have become a propaganda arm of the democrat party it really isn’t even something to be argued at this point.

 
 
 
TᵢG
4.3.27  TᵢG  replied to  MUVA @4.3.21    2 weeks ago
… I have watched what he said and it doesn’t match your opinion of what he said …

Confirmation bias.

 
 
 
Tessylo
4.3.28  Tessylo  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @4.3.18    2 weeks ago
"These are indisputable facts and no amount of ignorant whining and sniveling will change that."

jrSmiley_81_smiley_image.gifjrSmiley_81_smiley_image.gifjrSmiley_81_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
TᵢG
4.3.29  TᵢG  replied to  Ender @4.3.25    2 weeks ago

See @4.3.27

 
 
 
Ender
4.3.30  Ender  replied to  MUVA @4.3.26    2 weeks ago

Yes it is. Are you afraid to tell me what sources you consider credible?

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
4.3.31  Sean Treacy  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @4.3.18    2 weeks ago
The GOP Senate run investigation concluded that yes, Russia did in fact coordinate with the Trump campaign

No, it didn't. 

 
 
 
Tacos!
4.3.32  Tacos!  replied to  TᵢG @4.3.12    2 weeks ago
How can you possibly not know that Trump portrayed the virus as nothing more than the flu, that it would fade away, that mask wearing is not that important that businesses should just open up?

Trump is not equipped to express an expert opinion on a virus. I would hope everyone would understand that without having to be told. So when he said it was like the flu, I think he hoped that was true. Didn't we all? He also wasn't the only one. Even scientists were likening the virus to the flu early on. Here is an interview with Tony Fauci from February 7 :

(Synopisis by JAMA): In February 2020 the nature of the 2019-nCoV outbreak is still slowly coming into focus but it appears to be acting more like bad pandemic influenza (efficient spread, overall lower mortality) than like SARS (less efficient spread, overall higher mortality). Dr. Anthony Fauci of the US National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID) discusses the latest developments with JAMA Editor Howard Bauchner.

Some quotes from that interview:

And the reason I think this is important is because this is acting if the case fatality rate goes down to a really, really bad flu season type fatality, the fatality in a normal flu season is about .1%. When you get into the pandemics of 1957, 1968, it goes up to, you know, 0.8 to 1, 1.2. When you get to the 1918 pandemic, the famous Spanish flu that killed 50 to 100 million, people you go up to as much as 2%. So, if this goes down to the, 1, or .8, .9, 1, 1.1, it's acting more like a really bad flu season or a pandemic flu that we've experienced. The reason I say this is that it's acting less like SARS, which has much less efficiency in transmissibility, but a death rate of 9 to 12%, similar to MERS, which is not efficiently adapted to humans, it doesn't spread as well, but has a fatality of about 36%.

. . .

I mean the other issues that most of the case series, the one we're publishing, the -- a couple that have already been published, it's really -- it's behaving, in many regards, like -- like flu in the sense that it's -- it's the -- the elderly with comorbid conditions that we'll record that tomorrow that are really -- seem to be most susceptible to needing ICU services or ultimately to dying.

So it's not as if Trump was some lone voice in the wilderness proclaiming this disease was "like the flu." This is the information he was being given.

 
 
 
Tessylo
4.3.33  Tessylo  replied to  Sean Treacy @4.3.31    2 weeks ago
"No, it didn't."

Yes, it did.

 
 
 
Tessylo
4.3.34  Tessylo  replied to  Tacos! @4.3.32    2 weeks ago

All I can do is laugh at your spinning.  

 
 
 
Tacos!
4.3.35  Tacos!  replied to  Tessylo @4.3.34    2 weeks ago

Don't feel bad. Many people laugh at things they can't understand.

 
 
 
Tessylo
4.3.36  Tessylo  replied to  Tacos! @4.3.35    2 weeks ago

I don't feel bad.  I know tRumpturd supporters do though.  Their loser 'president' LOST.  THE LOSER REFUSES TO ACCEPT THE RESULTS LIKE THE WHINY LITTLE BITCH HE IS.  

I understand very well.  All your spinning makes me dizzy!  

 
 
 
Tacos!
4.3.37  Tacos!  replied to  Tessylo @4.3.36    2 weeks ago

I don't know what it is you think I'm spinning. Is there something about my comment you think is untrue?

 
 
 
TᵢG
4.3.38  TᵢG  replied to  Tacos! @4.3.32    2 weeks ago
I would hope everyone would understand that without having to be told.

They do not.   People look to a PotUS as a reliable source of information.   For the most part this has been true since most PotUS' try to be careful about what they say publicly.  

So it's not as if Trump was some lone voice in the wilderness proclaiming this disease was "like the flu." This is the information he was being given.

I never even implied Trump was the only one.   I stated Trump's flu-like declaration as one example of several.   You focused on one example and argue that other people said this too.

Not really the point is it?   The point is that Trump, as PotUS, downplayed the virus for months during its rise and even after he recovered from his own infection, he downplayed the virus.   There is no denying this.   Right?

Right?

Each of us could grab plenty of clips like this without breaking a sweat.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
4.3.39  JohnRussell  replied to  Tacos! @4.3.32    2 weeks ago

Dr Fauci didnt have a cult believing him. 

You seem to think it's worse for an expert to be wrong or to readjust his assessment than it is for a non expert to be wrong. 

The wrongest thing in all this was for Trump to speak to his followers like he was a voice of authority about a medical issue. There is an old adage that people who don't know what they are talking about shouldn't say anything. 

We can live with Dr Fauci adjusting his recommendations to new information.  Trump shouldn't be giving medical opinions, period. 

 
 
 
Tacos!
4.3.40  Tacos!  replied to  JohnRussell @4.3.39    2 weeks ago
Dr Fauci didnt have a cult believing him. 

No, he didn't. Just legions of other medical experts and politicians who were relying on his expertise and would actually implement real-world medical and public policy based on that expertise. 

Yeah that's far less consequential. /s jrSmiley_88_smiley_image.gif

You seem to think it's worse for an expert to be wrong or to readjust his assessment than it is for a non expert to be wrong. 

Don't you?

 
 
 
MUVA
4.3.41  MUVA  replied to  Ender @4.3.30    2 weeks ago

I can but it is easier to tell you who isn’t credible.

 
 
 
Ender
4.3.42  Ender  replied to  MUVA @4.3.41    2 weeks ago

So in other words, you will not say what you think is credible.

Really not that hard to do.

 
 
 
Tacos!
4.3.43  Tacos!  replied to  TᵢG @4.3.38    2 weeks ago
I never even implied Trump was the only one.   I stated Trump's flu-like declaration as one example of several.   You focused on one example and argue that other people said this too. Not really the point is it? 

Yeah, it kind of is. Because you find fault with Trump saying it, but not with Tony Fauci saying it. Your implication is that Trump's voice is the only one that matters.

Of the two, which was in a position to maybe know better? I'm not going to blame Trump for basically repeating what experts told him.

Furthermore, it is very easy to make too much of this. I have no problem saying that Trump could have done or said things differently or better. I have said as much several times. But the intense scrutiny of Trump, while ignoring the many experts feeding him information is disingenuous in the way that the scrutiny seems to place all blame for all deaths on Trump. Could he have saved some lives? I think so. Some relatively percentage. But I doubt very much he could have saved 200,000+ lives as his opponents keep trying to claim.

 
 
 
TᵢG
4.3.44  TᵢG  replied to  Tacos! @4.3.43    2 weeks ago
Because you find fault with Trump saying it, but not with Tony Fauci saying it.

At what point did I say that I am okay with Fauci (or anyone else) spreading false information?

I find fault with Trump because the subject was Trump Tacos!, not Fauci.   My comments were about Trump as PotUS putting forth false information.   I have trouble with anyone spreading false information but when I am speaking of Trump I kinda want to just speak of Trump.   It is not wrong to speak of one person at a time and one should not read anything into the exclusion. 

Your implication is that Trump's voice is the only one that matters.

I wish people would not presume to know what I am thinking.   My implication actually is that the voice of the PotUS is more influential to the people of the nation than any other single voice.   I would expect that everyone recognizes this.

Of the two, which was in a position to maybe know better? I'm not going to blame Trump for basically repeating what experts told him.

I do not blame Trump for faithfully communicating the best information we had.   I blame him for his ad-hoc, unsubstantiated statements.   Watch the video I provided.   When Trump speaks of the virus just fading away, he is not communicating known science.  He is trying to downplay the severity of the situation.   That is one of many examples ... and that it the problem.

 
 
 
Tacos!
4.3.45  Tacos!  replied to  TᵢG @4.3.44    2 weeks ago
At what point did I say that I am okay with Fauci (or anyone else) spreading false information?

Beats me. I never said you were okay with it.

I wish people would not presume to know what I am thinking.

I am not your therapist, but since you make the complaint to me, I'll try to help. I would suggest you try to get over it. Honestly. You're on a chat board on the internet where people primarily communicate with the written word. It's very limiting. You should recognize this and not get irritated when someone takes a meaning from your words that you don't like. Just clarify. Or even disagree with their conclusion. I have not presumed anything. All I have done is respond.

This is a discussion, and so just as someone might do in person, I and others will examine the implications of the things you write. I have examined your words and expressed what I think the implications of those words are. It's only my opinion. If you don't like seeing my opinion, you can either continue the discussion or ignore me.

When you try to lay down rules like this:

It is not wrong to speak of one person at a time and one should not read anything into the exclusion. 

You waste your time. Everyone here discusses matters on their own terms. I haven't said you were wrong to do anything. And as for reading things into other people's words, we all do that around here. All day long, every day. You do it, too. But back to the topic,

I blame him for his ad-hoc, unsubstantiated statements.

That's fine. But apparently words to the effect of "it's like the flu (or a bad flu)" don't qualify as ad-hoc or unsubstantiated because his chief advisor on infectious diseases was telling him (and the rest of the medical profession) exactly that.

 
 
 
TᵢG
4.3.46  TᵢG  replied to  Tacos! @4.3.45    2 weeks ago
Beats me. I never said you were okay with it.

Is this some other member named Tacos!?:

Tacos! @ 4.3.43 Because you find fault with Trump saying it, but not with Tony Fauci saying it.

Please parse this jrSmiley_115_smiley_image.png to make it match your claim.

I am not your therapist, ...

And here we go ...

I have examined your words and expressed what I think the implications of those words are.

You presumption was entirely at odds with what I wrote.  

I haven't said you were wrong to do anything.

That was sarcasm designed to make a point.   I was emphasizing that it makes perfectly good sense for anyone to speak of a single public figure without mentioning other public figures who might have engaged in a similar activity.   We do it all the time out of practical necessity.   I spoke of Trump and you presume that by my not mentioning Fauci that somehow that means I was implying that only Trump's voice mattered (using your own words):

Tacos! @ 4.3.43 ☞ Because you find fault with Trump saying it, but not with Tony Fauci saying it. Your implication is that Trump's voice is the only one that matters.

This jrSmiley_115_smiley_image.png is a non sequitur.

But apparently words to the effect of "it's like the flu (or a bad flu)" don't qualify as ad-hoc or unsubstantiated because his chief advisor on infectious diseases was telling him (and the rest of the medical profession) exactly that.

Did you watch the YouTube video?   Did Fauci claim the pandemic is going to just fade away?   Are you going to claim that all those down-talking claims of Trump all came from Fauci or some other credible source and that Trump was just being a good PotUS and faithfully communicating the best known information from experts who have advised the PotUS on the situation?

Finally, where do you find Fauci informing Trump, et. al. that COVID-19 was like the flu?:

Dr. Anthony Fauci, the government's top infectious diseases expert, emphasized the dangers of Covid-19 on Tuesday, contradicting President Donald Trump's false claim that the coronavirus was only as deadly as the flu.

Go with the facts.   Things work better that way.

 
 
 
TᵢG
4.3.47  TᵢG  replied to  Tacos! @4.3.45    2 weeks ago

By the way, is it your opinion that Trump did not try to talk down the pandemic this year?

 
 
 
Tacos!
4.3.48  Tacos!  replied to  TᵢG @4.3.46    2 weeks ago
Please parse this to make it match your claim.

"Not finding fault" is not the same as saying "it's okay."

And here we go ...

You started it. Stay on topic, and I won't have anything else to respond to.

You presumption was entirely at odds with what I wrote.  

It was not a presumption. It was a reaction.

That was sarcasm designed to make a point.

Oh. So now you want me to presume to know what you are thinking?

This  jrSmiley_115_smiley_image.png  is a non sequitur.

No it wasn't. I see a connection. You don't. That's fine. I don't mind disagreeing.

Did you watch the YouTube video?

No, because I'm not interested in expanding my focus or being distracted by red herrings. My comments have been about the words expressed here.

Dr. Anthony Fauci, the government's top infectious diseases expert, emphasized the dangers of Covid-19 on Tuesday, contradicting President Donald Trump's false claim that the coronavirus was only as deadly as the flu. Go with the facts.   Things work better that way.

WOW! Boy is that dishonest! Did you really just post a story from OCTOBER to contradict my link from FEBRUARY???? Come on TiG! Aren't you supposed to be better than that?

WOW. Just. WOW.

 
 
 
Tacos!
4.3.49  Tacos!  replied to  TᵢG @4.3.47    2 weeks ago
By the way, is it your opinion that Trump did not try to talk down the pandemic this year?

No, not at all. I have been plenty critical of Trump's communications during the pandemic. However, especially early on, he was in good company saying things to downplay the severity of the developing pandemic. It is ridiculous to assert, as some have, that Trump had special knowledge of how the disease would spread and that he suppressed it or lied about it - and even further that such suppression had significant impact on the early spread of the disease. Such allegations are - to my eye - purely political and have no basis in any kind of science.

 
 
 
TᵢG
4.3.50  TᵢG  replied to  Tacos! @4.3.48    2 weeks ago
"Not finding fault" is not the same as saying "it's okay."

Good grief man.   This:

Tacos! @ 4.3.43 " Because you find fault with Trump saying it, but not with Tony Fauci saying it . "

...  is your (baseless, invented) allegation that because I find fault with Trump saying it ( spreading false information ) that I therefore do not find fault with Fauci saying it ( spreading false information ).

Here is my response as written and then written by substituting the exact words that you used.

TiG @ 4.3.44 ☞ At what point did I say that I am okay with Fauci (or anyone else) spreading false information?
TiG @ 4.3.44 (b) ☞ At what point did I say that I do not find fault with Fauci (or anyone else) spreading false information?

Other than awkward English in the (b) version (which I avoided by substituting equivalent words) these two statement are identical in English within this context.  

Don't tell me this is not clear.   I am not going to break this down any further.

Stay on topic, and I won't have anything else to respond to.

Me stay on topic?  Projection much?   Your entire series of comments is deflecting from the point I made:

TiG @ 4.3.38 The point is that Trump, as PotUS, downplayed the virus for months during its rise and even after he recovered from his own infection, he downplayed the virus.   There is no denying this.   Right?

This  jrSmiley_115_smiley_image.png is the point I made.

Oh. So now you want me to presume to know what you are thinking?

No, just read what I wrote and go with the obvious meaning.   This game of finding unusual ways to misinterpret basic English is cheap.

No, because I'm not interested in expanding my focus or being distracted by red herrings.

Red Herrings?   The video provides supporting evidence, proof, for my allegation.   If you are going to just ignore supporting evidence as clear as that then you are not trying to be serious.

WOW! Boy is that dishonest! Did you really just post a story from OCTOBER to contradict my link from FEBRUARY???? Come on TiG! Aren't you supposed to be better than that?

Melodrama now?   jrSmiley_84_smiley_image.gif

You apparently do not understand your own link @ 4.3.32 :

(Synopisis by JAMA): In February 2020 the nature of the 2019-nCoV outbreak is still slowly coming into focus but it appears to be acting more like bad pandemic influenza (efficient spread, overall lower mortality) than like SARS (less efficient spread, overall higher mortality). Dr. Anthony Fauci of the US National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID) discusses the latest developments with JAMA Editor Howard Bauchner.

This jrSmiley_115_smiley_image.png is not a quote from Dr. Fauci, it is a synopsis.   Read the interview and understand what Fauci actually stated:

If you do the math on that, as we've done every day, it's remarkable that the fatality rate -- the case fatality rate has stayed at 2% . The issue is on conversations with our scientific colleagues and public health colleagues in China, it's very clear that the people who are getting caught in that umbrella of reporting are the people who present themselves to a hospital, about 25%, as you mentioned, of these individuals have serious enough disease to put them in the intensive care unit. However, there's another whole cohort that is either asymptomatic or minimally symptomatic that are going to make that denominator much, much larger than it is.  And the reason I think this is important is because this is acting if the case fatality rate goes down to a really, really bad flu season type fatality, the fatality in a normal flu season is about .1% . When you get into the pandemics of 1957, 1968, it goes up to, you know, 0.8 to 1, 1.2. When you get to the 1918 pandemic, the famous Spanish flu that killed 50 to 100 million, people you go up to as much as 2%. So, if this goes down to the, 1, or .8, .9, 1, 1.1, it's acting more like a really bad flu season or a pandemic flu that we've experienced. The reason I say this is that it's acting less like SARS, which has much less efficiency in transmissibility, but a death rate of 9 to 12%, similar to MERS, which is not efficiently adapted to humans, it doesn't spread as well, but has a fatality of about 36%. 

Dr. Fauci is talking about the fatality rate.   He notes that China at the time had what he considered to be a remarkable fatality of 2% that he thinks will grow smaller because he suspects there are a lot more infections than reported due to asymptomatic and minimally symptomatic infections.   That is just his speculation at this point.   He then notes that the fatality in normal flu season is about 0.1% and that recent pandemics have gone to 1.2%.   But the Spanish flu was up to 2% fatality.

He offered a conditional comparison (a what-if) and noted that  IF the fatality is lower than 1.2% it would be more like a really bad flu season or a recent pandemic.   He was comparing the immediate results in China to what we know of other pandemics and flu to give us a means of evaluating this pandemic based on the fatalities.   And  IF the fatalities stayed at 2% then Fauci suggested that this would be at the Spanish Flu level which killed 50 to 100 million people.

Note that he was not comparing the behavior of the virus on the human body to that of the flu.  He was classifying the pandemic in terms of potential fatality rates.   And he was giving different views depending on what we might experience in the future.    

Fauci did not, in February, declare to the world that COVID-19 is 'like the flu' or even a 'bad flu'.   However, if Fauci would have made that statement then that would be bad and I would criticize it.   Indeed this applies to any person making that statement in an official capacity.   But I was strictly focused on Trump.   And the PotUS telling people this is like the flu is far worse because of the nature of the office.  


Trump irresponsibly downplayed the virus in 2020.   IMO anyone who does not see that is not facing reality.   Reading what they want to read ... confirmation bias.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
4.3.51  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Ronin2 @4.3    2 weeks ago
"As for the country- nothing is going to divide us any more than we already are."

Unfortunately you're right.  I've never in my lifetime seen such a divide and such chaos in the USA as I've seen in the past few years.

Ignore all you want.that Trump denied and delayed much more than China, but that's why you're experiencing the disaster you have there today.  The "Blame China" game played by Trump obviously didn't get him re-elected.  Too bad.  It won't help if that game continues.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
4.3.52  Trout Giggles  replied to  Tacos! @4.3.32    2 weeks ago

Your problem, Tacos, is you think everyone is a critical thinker just like you. jrSmiley_9_smiley_image.gif They're not.  

Fauci gave some wrong information, early on. But at least he didn't double down on it once new information became available.

 
 
 
TᵢG
4.3.53  TᵢG  replied to  Trout Giggles @4.3.52    2 weeks ago

Specifically, Fauci downplayed masks early on and that was wrong.   He says he did it to mitigate draining the supply since the masks were needed by the medical staffs dealing with the infected and the infected themselves.   Sounds reasonable, but nonetheless he handled it poorly.   Outside of that, he seems to have been a reliable guide-light as the world simultaneously learned more about this virus and the nature of the pandemic and struggled to evolve its actions accordingly.

Trump, however, was focused on his reelection and took actions that he thought would preserve his second term.   His downplaying of the virus appears to have been enough to cost him the election.   His blew his reelection.

 
 
 
Kavika
4.4  Kavika   replied to  Tacos! @4    2 weeks ago

I agree, there is absolutely no reason that the transition can't be happening at the same time. 

 
 
 
Sunshine
5  Sunshine    2 weeks ago

Thread removed for slap fight. [ph]

 
 
 
JohnRussell
6  JohnRussell    2 weeks ago

I think Pompeo was trying more to be a smart ass irritater to the media than he was trying to make a realistic comment. 

 
 
 
Gsquared
6.1  seeder  Gsquared  replied to  JohnRussell @6    2 weeks ago

That may be, but either way, "ass" describes Pompeo perfectly.

 
 
 
pat wilson
7  pat wilson    2 weeks ago

As to the seeded article, Pompeo just showed us his ass, not pretty.

Seriously, he just adds more chaos to the situation.

 
 
 
Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom
8  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom    2 weeks ago

Hey Mike, shouldn't you be packing or something?  And by the way, be a good little secretary and give Joe Biden his messages...you know, the ones from world leaders congratulating him on his win.  Behaving like a petulant child might no bode well with your political aspirations.

 
 
 
Kavika
8.1  Kavika   replied to  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom @8    2 weeks ago
And by the way, be a good little secretary and give Joe Biden his messages...you know, the ones from world leaders congratulating him on his win.  Behaving like a petulant child might no bode well with your political aspirations.

I just read that.  The State Department is holding dozens of messages from around the world addressed to President-Elect Biden and won't turn them over to him. 

Talk about being a spoiled little child this whole administration belongs in a sandbox. 

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
8.1.1  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Kavika @8.1    2 weeks ago
Talk about being a spoiled little child this whole administration belongs in a sandbox.

and to get buried, by the cat

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
8.1.2  Trout Giggles  replied to  Kavika @8.1    2 weeks ago

Now that is really petty

 
 
 
Kavika
9  Kavika     2 weeks ago

Thread removed for slap fight. This better stop or tickets will be handed out. [ph]

 
 
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