You have a right to not wear a mask. You just don't have the right to not wear a mask in a store.
One of the people at the Christmas Eve gathering I was at is an executive for the largest grocery store chain the Chicago area. He was a store manager and then a regional manager and now he has been promoted to corporate headquarters as a security expert for the entire chain of 187 stores across Illinois, Indiana and Iowa.
So I asked him about all the "karens" who go into stores and demand they have a right to service even though they refuse to wear a mask.
They are "idiots" he told me. A store can refuse anyone they want for any reason they want. However, the individual could then sue the store based on their "right" to not wear a mask. The problem for such individuals is that they will lose in court every time. The governor of Illinois, and in every state, can mandate masks as a precaution to protect citizens during a public health emergency. If it is taken to court the governor, and the stores, will win.
When you see one of these videos where the "customer" says "I will sue you" and the store manager appears utterly unperturbed, it is because they know they will win in court.
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When we look back at all this 10 years from now, people refusing to wear a mask is going to be seen as the stupidest thing that happened in the whole pandemic.
Every person I see at grocery store is wearing a mask nowadays.
Every person I see at grocery store is wearing a mask nowadays.
Everyone? Well, my experience has been different.
Most people do. But occasionally I've seen people in grocery stores not wearing a mask! In most cases they do have a mask-- but its pulled down so that its become what NY's gov. Cuomo sarcastically refers to as a "Chin Protector" ...
(Also I seen news articles/TV News showing people not wearing masks in grocery stores... and I have no idea why, but that's mostly often in heavily Republican States)
I have seen the same thing too, Kirsh. I just have not seen any fits over it. They usually just leave.
I was in a Home Depot this morning in Cape Coral..... I'd say 30% were wearing masks. That percentage mirrors what we saw during our stays in August and October. Nothing has changed.
and shoes and a shirt
I bring one with me and have it available and put it on if I’m about to enter an area where social distancing is impossible. Otherwise I don’t put it on. If I go into a Burger King to order take out and there is no line I don’t put it on. If at the gas station I go into the convenience store and I’m the only customer inside, I don’t put it on. Most stores here only advise and don’t coerce. Those that do the latter I only go to them if I have to and I do then wear it. I don’t put it on until they verbally ask me to and when leaving I begin to remove it as I approach the exit doors. There is no law enforcement agency compelling face masks around here. I wear them where safety and common sense suggests I give myself and others that 1/3 of 1% extra protection but make a point of being seen in defiance of our governor elsewhere.
Why? If you've become a carrier, you spread the virus to the restaurant counter, for the next customer to pick up.
Not to mention the restaurant employees. Going anywhere without a mask is short sighted, selfish, and just plain stupid.
If I'm outside the house, I'm wearing a mask. Simple! I don't make exceptions or excuses.
No, it's a good practice and habit to get into during these times. Plus it helps to reduce the risk of complacency. What's not logical is not wearing masks or complaining about them.
It's good that you wear a mask around others. You shold be praised for doing so. Unfortunately, not everyone demonstrates that particular courtesy. I wear one outside the house out of habit. And it's good practice, which is hardly illogical.
Dunno...
There have been s-o-o-o many stupid things...
Mass political rallies. Sturgis.
"It will just go away!"
BLM and Antifa events and the Biden victory party?
I am unaware of those events. Do you have links? If those events ever occurred, they were foolish.
Trump and his followers have publicly, volubly, risked their own lives and the lives of others. That someone else may occasionally have been as stupid, inconsiderate, and dangerous as they... in no way excuses them.
Passed on thanksgiving, Christmas and all new years events this year. I seem to be a long hauler. Have had it for many months now and am used to sequestering.
I suspect that these same people claim that companies have the right to deny service on the basis of sexual orientation.
Good point.
Was I hallucinating, or did the...plump...lady spit on the counter? Please tell me that is not what I saw. Please?
OMG!! Yes you did. I had to go back and rewatch it. She is a disgusting pig. She is probably like this all the time. Btw... I wonder if that could be considered assault?
I just realized that happened in Ft. Worth. Gosh, I couldn't be more proud to be a native Texan during these difficult times.
Get my room ready. Sasha and I are on the way.
attempted murder ?
Doubtful since she doesn't seem to think disease is a problem or that masks are necessary.
But do it to a cop and it's attempted murder, no? At least assault.
I guess you could charge it as a depraved heart murder. i.e. She is acting with a reckless disregard for human life. So she isn't really trying to kill anyone, and may not even belied that she could kill someone, but an objective, reasonable observer would see this as an obvious risk to human life.
THE BIG QUESTION: IS COUGHING ON SOMEONE ASSAULT?
The simplified answer to this question is: yes, coughing on someone to expose them to illness is assault. However, the situation might not be so cut-and-dry.
The act of coughing or spitting on another person in order to expose them (jokingly or not) to COVID-19 has already been the cause of multiple arrests around the U.S. In Pennsylvania, a man was arrested after coughing in the face of a recovering pneumonia patient while repeatedly claiming to be infected with the coronavirus. A Tennessee man was charged with assault and a New York woman was charged with making a terroristic threat after coughing and spitting on people in Walmart claiming they had COVID-19.
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I wouldn’t be surprised if Disney decides to settle out of court rather than risking a loss in court.
I’m not siding with the woman that appeared to spit on the counter, but what is with the clerk? His mask wasn’t covering his nose. He might as well not be wearing one.
Yeah, I noticed that, too. I read somewhere that watching how people wear these masks, explains why condoms fail so often, LOL.
I caught that, too!
Obviously not a Mensa member, is he?
I have COPD, sinusitis, and bronchitis but I still wear a mask when required to. I limit any store visit to 10 minutes or less when possible and although sometimes it does impede my breathing, I muddle through it for the greater good. These anti maskers with their You Tube law degrees piss me off. They yell at the top of their lungs (If you can yell, then you can breathe) when confronted by businesses that require them. They piss and moan that it is a public business and how dare they not let them shop. The CO2 argument is lame and been debunked by medical science. Where it is a public business, it is also privately owned and they have the right to dictate what or what they won't allow in their stores. Anti maskers, get over it. This is not all about you. Your rights end, when it endangers the rights and the health of others.
Exactly!
I wonder if the woman throwing the items out of the cart could be charged with some sort of disorderly conduct violation under Texas law.
perhaps disturbing the peace?
This is the Texas statue I found regarding disorderly conduct:
The conduct may narrowly fit within section 42.01, subsection (1)
This is the Texas statute I found regarding criminal mischief:
Possibly section 28.02, subsections (1) or (2) might apply.
A Texas criminal attorney would likely have the answer. This guy might know:
well, I hope the idiot is charged with something.
Frankly, I do too, but I think it is unlikely. The store probably wouldn't want to press charges, and the local D.A. probably wouldn't want to, either. It would be interesting to know if anything happens.
At the very least, she should have to pay for any item she threw and also permanently trespassed from all of their stores if it is a chain.
I don't get the extreme level of anger. Contrast it, for example, with BLM demonstrations. Those people are angry because people have been killed. Actual lives lost.
Here, we have a similar level of anger over the requirement to wear a piece of cloth over your mouth and nose - temporarily.
Reminds me of smoker's rights?
They still have the right to adversely affect their own health, mainly in their own homes and autos, but no longer in public restaurants,
hospitals or public buildings.
We are currently flipping a deceased relative's home and spending an extra $25,000 in carpet, 3 coats of primer &
paint and smoke abatement. Threw out every bit of yellowed window treatments, shades, drapes etc.
The SUV was so bad we are donating it to a niece for $1.00. The cost of replacing the leather seats, carpet and headliner was equal to the retail value of the vehicle.
Just writing about it make me smell it all again.
Yeah, but smokers are apparently smarter. So many of these people insist that they are only putting their own health at risk, when it has been explained to them many times that they put other lives at risk. I don't know when I have seen so many people be so willfully ignorant about such a basic thing as an infectious disease.
Why are people so stupid, inconsiderate, childish, ect.? Just wear a mask! What's the big deal? It only helps. I just don't understand the anti mask mentality or complaints about them. Why would anyone be opposed to measures that protect them and others?
Unfortunately, political propaganda seems to be a major factor.
That just falls in line with people being stupid. They blindly follow propaganda, political speeches, and related emotional appeals rather than think logically or critically.
It's not stupidity. It's a different way of organizing one's life.
Most people do not think. Their beliefs and behavior are copied, as they grow up, from their parents, their teachers, ... and then from their colleagues, their congregation, ...
A person who copies from family and neighbors and co-workers, can lead a happy, productive life, without ever "thinking".
Most people cannot rationally discuss their beliefs because they do not really understand those beliefs. Schematically, they believe what their neighbors believe... what their preacher tells them... They have never asked their preacher to explain... just as they have never asked anyone to explain. They have always learned by rote.
Sadly, discussion with them is literally impossible.
Tomato, toma-toe Bob. It still shows a lack of independent, critical thinking.
In a perfect world that would seem appropriate , unfortunately we do not live in a perfect world .
not all disabilities or conditions are readily visable to another person, that unmasked person might have an issue ( other than political) that wearing a mask is near impossable , so when i see someone not wearing one , i take into consideration , i dont know whats going on with them individually , they might have severe anxiety attacks due to some past trauma that brings on a clostraphobic panic attack reaction , they MIGHT have a breathing issue they may have an autisic spectrum issue, the list can go on , what i make sure is that i follow what works for me and dont judge others since i dont know their story .
Point is how do we individually know if its being abused or not? we dont .
Unfortunately indeed.
I cannot think of any medical condition that would preclude someone from wearing some kind of mask. The only issue is an individual's stubborn ignorance and inconsideration for not wearing a mask.
There are medications and therapies for that.
A mask does not impede breathing. If someone has breathing issues from wearing a mask, then perhaps they should be on oxygen.
That's a bit of a stretch.
The problem is, others put those around them and themselves in harms way if they do not wear a mask.
A person with a breathing issue so severe as to make it impossible for that person to wear a mask is the very last person who should risk catching Covid. That person already likely has one foot in the grave.
I can only think, if one person would have so many adverse reactions just by wearing a simple mask, they should probably stay at home anyway. Not a healthy (mind & body) functioning individual.
Also, if one has breathing problems so bad that they cannot wear a mask, why in the hell are they out running around when this virus causes respiratory distress. One would have to be a complete moron to risk it, or else they are just full of shit.
Well to my way of thinking if one is so afraid that an unmasked person will infect them , then it is THOSE people that are afraid of infection need to stay home and isolate themselves from the world .
a bit of a stretch for an autistic person not wearing amask because of their condition?
not really, since one of the symptoms of autism , is not liking being touched , or reacting to the way certain things feel , so unless your an expert in autism and the vast range of the spectrum , your simply voicing an opinion with no knowledge and appear to wish to attempt to control others actions to your own liking.
yes i agree there are medications for anxiety attacks , but they also do not always work in all cases , and the answer isnt always to be found in some little "pill" a dr hands out. once an attack is triggered , the medication might not help , what would is understanding why an attack was triggered in that particular case .
A person with a breathing issue so severe as to make it impossible for that person to wear a mask is the very last person who should risk catching Covid. That person already likely has one foot in the grave.
I have seen my share of the bottle brigade , with their oxygen masks on , in the stores without a thought that those masks dont do a thing for anyone else around them, and that IS the point of wearing a mask is it not? ,
the exhaled breath is still unfiltered , and the Oxy flow is enough to keep the outside air we exhale out , so they might be better off than those of us that wear masks breathing in our own germ particles.
You are aware that masks work primarily to prevent spread by the wearers, not others, yes? We've known that from pretty early on. Yes, wearing a mask will protect the wearer from being infected by others to a degree, but the greatest effect is by preventing one's own respiratory droplets from spreading the virus to others. So those people afraid of catching it from the unmasked are the ones who are listening to science. Knowledge is not paranoia. Unfortunately, we can't all stay home 24/7.
And yes, those wearing masks while on oxygen are protecting others, because yes, the exhaled breath is filtered by the mask (not sure why anyone would think it's not). No, the oxygen flow is not enough to keep them from inhaling the air the rest of us breathe out - the oxygen they're on is a supplement to room air, and unless they've got masks on that cover both their noses and mouths (most are just on a nasal cannula), there is nothing preventing room air from entering their lungs.
And not everyone has that healthy mind thing going for them , so now that they are prisoners of their own minds and have adverse reactions beyond their controls even if medicated , they now should also become prisoners in their own homes because they do not conform to some set edict dictated by some uneducated corkscrewer, because THEY feel thats whats nessisary.
I have one response to people whom think that way , [deleted]
they can just stay home themselves as healthy as they are but not heathy or smart enough to distance themselves .
Why do you want people treated different? Why should someone with a severe problem be allowed to walk around like there is no problem while the rest of us have to take caution?
That is simply not reasonable.
Classy.
all the bottle brigade i have seen locally have switched to the nose/mouth covering , i even asked about it to one im aquainted with , his answer was so he didnt have to wear one of those hospital doohickeys over the mask, his words i let him get away with that , i asked about air flow , he said he just opens the bottle a little more until he feels it flowing out , can say i dont want his bottle bill on refills, then again this is a guy that worked in the underground mines and in confined areas , and he is a heck of alot older than i am , if it works for him , so be it . all i care about is am I following the set protocol that i need to for the situation i am in.
a lot more classy than just "cropdusting them while they attempt to admonish me in a parking lot with no one within 30 feet, and saying if they react , good news is if you can smell that you dont have covid , bad news is if you can smell that , your mask doesnt work..... and i have done that to a couple "karens " now.
a lot of folks still think even after being told , the mask isnt there to keep them from getting it , its there to keep you from giving it to someone else.
because not everyone will ever fit neatly into the little box you wish to create . because they are different and live different lives and have different things that are going on with them we will likely never know about.
i am a firm believer , that i am the only one answers for my own actions , that does not mean i cannot take into consideration all the things i have mentioned , and after i do that i can take actions and steps myself that might or might not be an inconvenience to me , but will definitely not inconvenience someone whom i have no idea why they are doing what they are. could they just be selfish pricks? could be i dont know , could there be issues i know nothing about , again i dont know, thats where it is up to me to take the appropriate steps I , not you or anyone else says are nessisary for myself.
I have watched , uh, a bunch of videos of people refusing to wear masks in a store. I have yet to see one where the person seemed to have a physical problem effecting breathing in any way.
Usually they have a rather large and well working lung capacity evidenced by their screaming expletives at the stores employees. One guy had to be physically lifted up and carried out of the store by his teenage son after trying to fistfight the store manager.
There probably is a small percentage of people with a legitimate breathing condition which makes wearing a mask unwise for them, but there are many more that just want to cause trouble and be "maga".
In my present situation , single , live alone , and have a very minimal social life , I dont have much risk .
My greatest risk is the grocery store , have no idea who has been in with what.
My usual routine is after i park and am walking to the doors , put my mask on and fitted properly, yes i have more than 2 so they can be washed , i also have an added stick in layer i add to make it a triple layer , it doesnt matter if they have a sign requesting mask use or not , most places here do , so i go ahead and wear one .
I also keep a raft of cotton string knit gloves in the truck all washed and ready to go, i grab a pair and wear them while in the store , doesnt look strange because its winter . and all that stays in place whilst i am in the store.
i leave the store and the mask comes off as soon as i see i have enough social distancing to do so, the gloves come off last and go in my coat pocket until i get home and they go right in the washer .
everything i purchased gets wiped down and put away, and after all that , i wash my hands even after using sanitizer on what i purchased .
I dont wear a mask at home , while driving , and usually will wait until im maybe 20 meters from an entryway for a store to put the mask on, that of course depends on how many people are about.
So im not anti mask , but i will reserve the right to decide for myself the level of precautions I need dictated by the situation , and i will also reserve the right to consider , not nessisarily believe , that others might have problems beyond their control in life that make even my simple precautions not totally possible , in other words i wont jump to the conclusion they are being arrogant and selfish for whatever reason , and it is certainly not my place to question them about their mental or physical health even though that could be a possibility. simply understanding there is a possibility is enough for me if i am confident in the measures i have taken.
I worry about myself , and mind my own business, and take the steps i feel are needed to avoid infection.
In a society of hundreds of millions of people, often cohabiting relatively small areas, it is not feasible or advisable to let everyone "be responsible" for their own response to a pandemic. There is nothing wrong with the "authorities" requiring the co-operation of the citizens in a way that goes beyond what you might encounter in a small town or rural area.
I dont doubt you one bit john, i can say i have seen a lot of that myself , just like i have seen the vids of those trying to confront those not wearing masks , all i can say is those cherry picked vids do nothing but make both sides that are in the offense , look like major control issue FREAKS.
usually when i exit a store and i can safely take the mask off, i exclaim that i now understand why a woman is so relived and greatful to take off their bra after work, more than a few times i get a laugh, but i always get , wearing a bra all day is worse. i get my second laugh when i make a shocked and horrified face and say , man i need to send my mom some flowers then.....
It is not only about you.
and how is either directive working out for those more densely populated areas?
Somehow ender , i doubt you or i will come within proximity where we could infect the other , i even doubt someone either of us associates with or has been near either of us will get close to infect either of us . So thats something not worth worrying about so i wont.
My situation as it stands and my lifestyle , yes it is about me , i dont get paid to worry about you or anyone else .
[deleted]
Why should they? Those wearing masks are not the problem. Isolation is to prevent the spread of contagion, just as masks do.
Yes! I highly doubt everyone or even a majority of people not wearing a mask have autism or any other condition that precludes mask wearing. They're just being inconsiderate. But for the sake of argument, if they did have autism, you're just assuming that it's severe enough to prevent them from wearing masks. But even autistic people can be taught to wear a mask.
Then perhaps it's THOSE people that need to isolate themselves from the world, if being out in it triggers them.
A face mask can be worn over a breathing mask or oxygen cannula without impeding oxygen delivery.
Only if they're wearing a non-rebreather mask. But if they need that, chances are they have much more serious problems.
Is that supposed to be an excuse?
Better yet, those not of healthy minds (or bodies) should stay home, as they are clearly a risk to the public.
got it , place them all under house arrest , require vaccination documentation to participate in the outside world , and stigmatize those with physical or mental health issues .
That is pretty much what it boils down to to me , other than an underlying control issue .
maybe a good portion of the anti maskers are being nothing more than inconsiderate cantankerous pricks , it is still a control issue then, and the same can be said for those self appointed mask police that need to make it an issue albeit , with "science " on their side .
How good the science actually is in real world practice , remains to be seen.
And i admit , i likely have a very different view on the matter because of the situation i am in , there is a big difference of looking at it from a rural perspective where , contacts per day individually can usually be counted on the fingers of one hand , verses in the hundreds or thousands in a more sub urban or urban enviroment .
My rural setting likely gives me a little more latitude in deciding what is appropriate for where I have chosen to live. IF i lived elsewhere , i would likely do things differently , but not by much.
All that's needed is to wear a mask. It's simple. It's about protecting one's own and public health. If you can't or won't wear a mask, then don't go out. One's comfort or sensitivities is no excuse to put others health at risk. It's that simple!
It sounds to me like you're doing significantly more than the minimum.
My only suggestion would be to use pick-up for some of your shopping.
That's kinda self-centered, during a pandemic...
wont deny that Bob, and during the last 10 months of this epidemic /pandemic , I have seen a lot of self centered actions even in the place i live through others actions , and they run the spectrum, since it is useless to try and control others , i simply control myself , my actions might be more than some think are needed to some , and they might not be enough to others point of view .
my goal ? dont get infected , if i dont get infected i cant infect others , can I?
Kinda sad that even during a pandemic , the only change to my life and lifestyle is i have cut back on social interaction in person, which doesnt bother me in the slightest.
i still take care of my chickens , butchered my own beef and hog .and paid all my bills..
not much has changed for me.
I have tried that twice , both times i ended up going back in and getting what i actually wanted , not what they had stocked and was easy.
besides even though i usually have a list , i always come out with more than i initially went in for
so really cant say im a fan of it
A large majority of them are Trumptards and take their cue from him.
Where I am, even though there has not been a case of virus infection for more than six months, I still cannot go into the small local branch of my bank until there are less than 4 customers in the branch, nobody can go in unless they wear a mask PROPERLY, and only after their body temperature has been checked and they have shown proof of local residence, and have signed the register with their name, address and phone number for tracing purposes if necessary. No problem at all when people WANT to be unselfish and make sure the virus is contained. I have never seen anyone bitch when they are turned away for not complying, and in fact they usually look ashamed of themselves. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.
Some people are "me!" Others are "us!".
WWJD?
Sorry Bob, but I'm acronym-disadvantaged.
"WWJD" is an acronym for "what would Jesus do?"
Yes. Many Americans claim to be Christians... followers of Christ.
Can anyone imagine that He would refuse to wear a mask?
Thank you Sandy, Bob, and the friend who told me in a CHAT message. I'll try to remember, even though I really don't give a damn what Jesus would do, or his wannabe disciples here on NT.
I didn't know what it was either, Buzz.
My first big laugh out loud of the day - thank you. But there are some members on this site who will just think he's baptizing him.
don't be alarmed ,Jesus is just baptizing him.
You can not wear a mask, but you have to wear one in my house. And if you do not like that then I have every right to toss your retarded ass off my property.