face it, a large swath of Americans is indifferent at best about racism.

  

Category:  Op/Ed

By:  john-russell  •  3 weeks ago  •  126 comments

face it, a large swath of Americans is indifferent at best about racism.
No one needs to promote "whiteness" , it is absurd. White people have been the model for and the basis of power in this country for 400 years, and there has never been a time in the past 400 years when whites were not "in power". 


I have a nephew who otherwise loves sports who has not watched an NBA or college basketball game in 10 or 15 years. There are two reasons for this, one, basketball in the 21st century is largely a sport dominated by young black men,  and,  said young black men sometimes speak out on social justice issues. LeBron James has become pretty well known for speaking out. Like so many other white Americans, my nephew does not want to be lectured to by black people. As a way of "punishing" them, he withholds his interest in what they do in sports. 

A lot of liberal do gooders have assumed that the nation reached a turning point with the George Floyd murder last May and the subsequent mass protests which often included many young (and not so young) white people. The assumption was that white people were suddenly "getting it". While that may be somewhat the case, that "getting it" may in fact be slight. 

There was a story in the media yesterday , which was seeded here, in which the writer posed the idea that the Democrats are being hurt politically when they propose legislation or executive orders meant to redress racism. The point of the article being that "liberals" and other Democrats have made the assumption that white America acknowledges racial disparity and is ready to take action to diminish or end racism, thus the belief that legislation or other anti-racist measures will meet with approval from the majority of Americans , including some conservatives. 

I think there are signs that the belief that the country is ready to meet racism head on is an overblown and unsupported belief. We have people in this country who are far more interested in calling Black Lives Matter communists and socialists and rioters that they are interested in having black lives matter. We have white people who routinely diminish complaints about racism from people of color such as blacks, American Indians , hispanics and Asians. Many white people want to proclaim that we already have a color blind society so any additional effort to reduce racism is offensive overkill. We have white people who say that people of color, particularly blacks, are the real racists. Why would that be? , because they complain about white racism. 

Ending racism is surely a long term project, a generational thing that has already consumed many generations, but it is what it is. Ending racism will take as long as it takes. There is no date to say "now it is over". 

I saw somebody say "why can't I fly a white pride flag"?   Why would you need to? 

No one needs to promote "whiteness" , it is absurd. White people have been the model for and the basis of power in this country for 400 years, and there has never been a time in the past 400 years when whites were not "in power".  Many whites fear that the day is coming when they will not be the "default" idea of an American. They don't want to see the day when America changes from being a "white" nation, not even for their children.  Hence we see things like Republican and conservative politician Rick Santorum say, in the past few days, that when whites came to America there was "nothing here" and our civilization was built on freedom sought by the Europeans who came here.  To Santorum and his vast ilk the people who were already here are little more than an afterthought who had to be sacrificed to make the white Christian nation we have had all these years.  

A  couple nights ago Hollywood do-gooders held the 2021 Academy Awards, and at those awards there were numerous short speeches about racial inequality in America today. Not surprisingly, the television show of the Oscars got the worst ratings in it's history. It is not hard, at all, to connect these plummeting ratings with an overall refusal of many white Americans to accept that NOW is the time to put racism behind us. Instead of a breakthrough being made in 2020, it may have only made the two sides dig in harder. 


Tags

jrDiscussion - desc
[]
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1  author  JohnRussell    3 weeks ago

There is a regular guest on MSNBC named Eddie Glaude , who is such a liberal egghead he chairs the Department of African American studies at Princeton University. Glaude has been saying for a few years now that events are bringing America to a breaking point where the nation's history of white racism and white supremacy will have to be once and for all acknowledged and confronted , and then a new multiracial and multicultural society will bloom . Often Glaude gets emotional to the point he seems to be crying. I think Glaude has quite a few tears still in store for him. 

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Junior Principal
2  Nerm_L    3 weeks ago

Consider that the whole racism meme is phony.  The country has invested a lot of effort and money into redressing the overt racism of the past.  Civil rights really did reshape American society.

What has the country accomplished?  Why should the country invest more effort and money?

George Floyd was not a role model of civic virtue.  George Floyd was not a 'good' guy.  George Floyd was an unheroic criminal attempting to pass counterfeit money to steal from a low paid register clerk.  We shouldn't want our children to become a George Floyd.  There shouldn't be monuments and memorials celebrating George Floyd.  George Floyd died trying to dodge jail time.

What Derek Chauvin did was wrong but wasn't racist.  Chauvin didn't behave in a professional manner.  But what Chauvin did is understandable because someone like George Floyd should only be treated with contempt.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.1  Tessylo  replied to  Nerm_L @2    3 weeks ago

Typical victim blaming.  Deplorable.  Pathetic.  Ignorant.  Shameful.  Racist.  You disgust me.  

He's dead thanks to that racist pig who kneeled on his neck for almost 10 minutes.  

 
 
 
r.t..b...
Masters Participates
2.2  r.t..b...  replied to  Nerm_L @2    3 weeks ago

“...what Chauvin did is understandable...”

...only in the context of attempting to explain away the obvious. We have a deep seeded problem in this country and it steeps in this kind of mindset, boiling over in our antiquated policing system, and scalding those with the least amount of power to effect change. Floyd is no hero, his case, however, has become a symbol of hope that it is indeed possible for those abusing their power can and will be held accountable. 

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Junior Principal
2.2.1  Nerm_L  replied to  r.t..b... @2.2    3 weeks ago
...only in the context of attempting to explain away the obvious. We have a deep seeded problem in this country and it steeps in this kind of mindset, boiling over in our antiquated policing system, and scalding those with the least amount of power to effect change. Floyd is no hero, his case, however, has become a symbol of hope that it is indeed possible for those abusing their power can and will be held accountable. 

Floyd was trying to create a situation that would allow him to avoid jail time.  Fighting the police creates a situation where the police do something that a lawyer can be claim as a violation of rights.  And the perpetrator walks away with a lesser sentence or no jail time at all.

Where's the justice for society?

 
 
 
r.t..b...
Masters Participates
2.2.2  r.t..b...  replied to  Nerm_L @2.2.1    3 weeks ago

Swirling the drain, nerm.

Thankful your version of justice is relegated to the weak and irrational monday morning quarterbacking that it is. 

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.2.3  Tessylo  replied to  Nerm_L @2.2.1    3 weeks ago

jrSmiley_98_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
PhD Participates
2.2.4  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Nerm_L @2.2.1    3 weeks ago
Floyd was trying to create a situation that would allow him to avoid jail time.  Fighting the police creates a situation where the police do something that a lawyer can be claim as a violation of rights.

Wow. Just wow. I didn't think it was possible for someone to come up with such a ridiculous bullshit theory as that but you did it with apparent ease. That is truly one of the stupidest things I've read on NT and that's saying a lot since there are some serious Darwin award winning content sometimes.

Where's the justice for society?

Justice for all society was convicting Chauvin on all three counts. Perhaps some dipshit white supremacists would disagree that it wasn't justice for their white race, but who the fuck cares what those worthless bigots think anyway.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Junior Principal
2.2.5  Nerm_L  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @2.2.4    3 weeks ago
Justice for all society was convicting Chauvin on all three counts. Perhaps some dipshit white supremacists would disagree that it wasn't justice for their white race, but who the fuck cares what those worthless bigots think anyway.

Yep, there's no excuse for Derek Chauvin's unprofessional behavior.  Chauvin's behavior merited being charged and a jury determined Chauvin's behavior merited conviction.  The system of justice worked. 

But that doesn't excuse George Floyd's criminal behavior.  And that certainly doesn't make George Floyd a role model deserving monuments and memorials.  Murals of George Floyd as a heroic role model should be repugnant.

 
 
 
r.t..b...
Masters Participates
2.2.6  r.t..b...  replied to  Nerm_L @2.2.5    3 weeks ago

“Murals of George Floyd as a heroic role model should be repugnant.”

The larger societal point is being missed in the obsession with the individual.

Like the innumerable examples that came before him, the sacrifices made in the face of the undeniable are more about the outcome than the anecdotal circumstances.

That is why we invoke their names, not because they were ‘role models’, but because their lives were considered forfeit if we were to hold to the status quo.

Because of their loss, we can celebrate the gains made, be it one inch, one knee, or nine minutes at a time...and that alone is worthy of a mural in commemoration of an ongoing and most American of struggles.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.2.7  Tessylo  replied to  Nerm_L @2.2.5    3 weeks ago

jrSmiley_76_smiley_image.gif

jrSmiley_78_smiley_image.gif

jrSmiley_98_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
PhD Participates
2.2.8  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Nerm_L @2.2.5    3 weeks ago
But that doesn't excuse George Floyd's criminal behavior.

I think he paid far more of a price for his crimes than was deserved which does in fact wipe away his petty crimes and allows us to recognize him as a martyr and another poignant reminder of how far we have to go to achieve equality and real justice. He should have been fined or perhaps serve a few days in jail at worst, instead possibly decades were stolen from he and his family. He might have turned his life around and become that role model you claim he wasn't, but he now doesn't have that chance since it was stolen by a callous officer who showed no compassion as the man beneath his knee was begging for a breath, begging for his life, begging for his mother.

Murals of George Floyd as a heroic role model should be repugnant.

Only to other bigots who don't recognize what Floyd represents which is the obvious unequal treatment of a marginalized and discriminated against minority. He is a reminder of the society that has kept he and millions of other black Americans in cycles of poverty. It's only been 60 years since black Americans were even afforded the right to use the same establishments and access to voting booths, you can't just wipe away the hundreds of years legacy of slavery, blatant segregation and open discrimination overnight. Just saying "Okay, you're allowed to vote and go to schools and restaurant's now" doesn't reverse the centuries they and their ancestors spent under the white knee of oppression or the decades after the civil rights and voting rights acts were passed of continued prejudice, white flight, financial segregation and silent discrimination in hiring and college acceptance that went on long after. Those who put up murals of Floyd see him as a martyr for equality that they have been attempting to achieve for centuries, and those who dismiss, downplay and diminish their obvious plight with whitewashed rhetoric, empty platitudes or victim blaming should be ashamed of themselves.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Junior Principal
2.2.9  Nerm_L  replied to  r.t..b... @2.2.6    3 weeks ago
Because of their loss, we can celebrate the gains made, be it one inch at a time...and that alone is worthy of a mural in commemoration of an ongoing struggle. 

I want to know what gains have been made.  No one ever explains what gains have been made; it's just tossed out as some sort of feel good justification.

What has civil rights accomplished?  If that question can't be answered then why should we, as a society, continue to invest more effort and money in civil rights?

Celebrating a criminal as a martyr doesn't seem to be progress.  What do we gain by making criminals martyrs?  How does making George Floyd the martyr for the cause make that cause worthy?

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.2.10  Tessylo  replied to  Nerm_L @2.2.9    3 weeks ago

jrSmiley_76_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
r.t..b...
Masters Participates
2.2.11  r.t..b...  replied to  Nerm_L @2.2.9    3 weeks ago

“I want to know what gains have been made.”

Please...in our lifetime; the vote was denied, separate but equal was the excuse, separate restroom, dining and hotel facilities were the ‘nerm’. There were no representatives in Congress, the Senate, the SCOTUS, much less the Presidency. So gains have most certainly been made.

But there is still a long way to go in battling the kind of thought that you seem to hold close. The thought that nothing has changed, nothing should change, and god forbid, if there is change, it is based on martyrdom rather than what is true and what is right.

A rather pitiable way to look at things. 

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Junior Principal
2.2.12  Nerm_L  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @2.2.8    3 weeks ago
think he paid far more of a price for his crimes than was deserved which does in fact wipe away his petty crimes and allows us to recognize him as a martyr and another poignant reminder of how far we have to go to achieve equality and real justice. He should have been fined or perhaps serve a few days in jail at worst, instead possibly decades were stolen from he and his family. He might have turned his life around and become that role model you claim he wasn't, but he now doesn't have that chance since it was stolen by a callous officer who showed no compassion as the man beneath his knee was begging for a breath, begging for his life, begging for his mother.

A jury agreed.  The system of justice did what it was supposed to do by punishing crimes against George Floyd.

But Cup Food was still out $20.  The register clerk may have gotten off the hook by reporting it but that debt hasn't been paid.  Where's justice for the crime George Floyd committed?  Claiming it's only $20 as an excuse cheapens the idea of justice.

Is George Floyd a martyr because he dodged accountability for the crime he committed?  The overblown sentimentality over the sacrifice of George Floyd is a mockery of justice.  

Weeping for criminals that die in the street after fighting the police doesn't advance the cause of civil rights.  Did George Floyd deserve to die?  No, of course not.  But George Floyd earned a callous disregard.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.2.13  Tessylo  replied to  Nerm_L @2.2.12    3 weeks ago

jrSmiley_76_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
r.t..b...
Masters Participates
2.2.14  r.t..b...  replied to  Nerm_L @2.2.12    3 weeks ago

“But Cup Food was still out $20”

...further discussion is thus rendered moot. 

That is obscene.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Junior Principal
2.2.15  Nerm_L  replied to  r.t..b... @2.2.14    3 weeks ago
...further discussion is thus rendered moot.  That is obscene.

So, the victims of crimes perpetrated by martyrs don't deserve any sort of justice?   Admitting George Floyd committed a crime would take the glossy shine off his martyrdom for the cause.  

Let's give George Floyd a posthumous Nobel Peace Prize for fighting the cops and dying in the street after committing a crime.  After all, George Floyd was a heroic martyr who gave his life for the cause.  

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
2.2.16  Trout Giggles  replied to  Nerm_L @2.2.15    3 weeks ago

Oh, he committed a crime, but I'm pretty sure stealing $20 doesn't warrant the death penalty even in Texas.

I could be wrong, tho

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
PhD Participates
2.2.17  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Nerm_L @2.2.12    3 weeks ago
A jury agreed.  The system of justice did what it was supposed to do by punishing crimes against George Floyd.

Finally, after decades of young unarmed black men being killed by police where the excuses made were accepted and the young black life discarded like yesterdays garbage.

But Cup Food was still out $20.

I'm not surprised that some fucking worthless white supremacists would put that kind of value on Floyds life. The sickness and depravity of those who continue to defend and deflect from this kind of atrocity is truly sad.

Where's justice for the crime George Floyd committed?

Seriously? You don't think the death penalty for the $20 was enough? I don't even know how to really respond to that level of depravity and ignorance.

Claiming it's only $20 as an excuse cheapens the idea of justice.

There is a reason that laws have limits between petty theft (misdemeanor) and grand theft (felony) and if you think our justice system should just execute anyone for stealing $20 then all I can say is perhaps you would have been happier living in Nazi Germany and ratting out the Jews you found out were hiding in your neighbors attic.

Is George Floyd a martyr because he dodged accountability for the crime he committed?

In what way did he "dodge" accountability? He was fucking judged and sentenced to death by a worthless bigot who couldn't take the time to be bothered with his pleas for air. Fuck anyone claiming he didn't suffer the ultimate penalty for the minor crime of passing a counterfeit $20.

The overblown sentimentality over the sacrifice of George Floyd is a mockery of justice.

Only to sick fucking worthless white supremacists who think his life was worth less than $20.

Weeping for criminals that die in the street after fighting the police doesn't advance the cause of civil rights.

I watched the Broadway production of Les Misérables last night, a show I saw back in the 1980's live, but it was an interesting reminder of a man who stole a loaf of bread to save his sisters son and spent 19 years in prison for it, an obvious miscarriage of justice, yet there are some smug sons of bitches who think that was warranted because they've only ever lived lives of privilege and have never had to struggle to survive. Fuck those kinds of worthless bigots and pieces of shit judging others without ever having walked a day in their shoes, fuck them right in the fucking ear.

George Floyd earned a callous disregard

Perhaps to some bigots or those with zero compassion or empathy for their fellow man, but those types of worthless scum and filth don't really exist, do they?

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.2.18  Tessylo  replied to  Nerm_L @2.2.15    3 weeks ago

jrSmiley_76_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.2.19  Tessylo  replied to  Nerm_L @2.2.15    3 weeks ago

Pathetic disgusting bigot.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.2.20  Tessylo  replied to  Nerm_L @2.2.15    3 weeks ago

You claimed to be physically disabled on one of your 'articles'.  I see what your true handicap is.  

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.2.21  Tessylo  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @2.2.17    3 weeks ago

We see quite clearly what some others' lives mean to some - nothing.  

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Junior Principal
2.2.22  Nerm_L  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @2.2.17    3 weeks ago
Seriously? You don't think the death penalty for the $20 was enough? I don't even know how to really respond to that level of depravity and ignorance.

George Floyd didn't receive a death penalty.  Derek Chauvin was arrested, charged, and convicted for murdering George Floyd.  The system of justice did what it was supposed to do.

Derek Chauvin didn't run or fight the police.  Four police officers were not required to physically subdue Chauvin and take him into custody.  And that allowed the system of justice to work like it is supposed to work.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Junior Principal
2.2.23  Nerm_L  replied to  Trout Giggles @2.2.16    3 weeks ago
Oh, he committed a crime, but I'm pretty sure stealing $20 doesn't warrant the death penalty even in Texas.

So, what is the non-racist way to handle a situation like what George Floyd did?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.2.24  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Nerm_L @2.2.12    3 weeks ago
A jury agreed.  The system of justice did what it was supposed to do by punishing crimes against George Floyd.

But Cup Food was still out $20.  The register clerk may have gotten off the hook by reporting it but that debt hasn't been paid.  Where's justice for the crime George Floyd committed?  Claiming it's only $20 as an excuse cheapens the idea of justice.

Is George Floyd a martyr because he dodged accountability for the crime he committed?  The overblown sentimentality over the sacrifice of George Floyd is a mockery of justice.  

Weeping for criminals that die in the street after fighting the police doesn't advance the cause of civil rights.  Did George Floyd deserve to die?  No, of course not.  But George Floyd earned a callous disregard.

This entire comment is ridiculous. Not even Chauvin's defense lawyer made an issue of claiming that Floyd needed to be sent to jail for a counterfeit 20 dollar bill.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Junior Principal
2.2.25  Nerm_L  replied to  JohnRussell @2.2.24    3 weeks ago
This entire comment is ridiculous. Not even Chauvin's defense lawyer made an issue of claiming that Floyd needed to be sent to jail for a counterfeit 20 dollar bill.

So, what would be the non-racist way to handle what George Floyd did?  

Shouldn't George Floyd have been required to make good on the counterfeit 20?  It seems that either replacing the counterfeit with a legit bill or giving back the merchandise and change was all that needed to be done.  And Floyd was given chances to do that but refused.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
2.2.26  Trout Giggles  replied to  Nerm_L @2.2.23    3 weeks ago

Subdue the man in a way that doesn't require kneeling on his neck for 9 minutes. Don't the Minneapolis police have tasers? One good hit with a club behind his knee would have subdued him

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.2.27  Tessylo  replied to  Nerm_L @2.2.1    3 weeks ago

[Deleted]

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.2.28  Tessylo  replied to  JohnRussell @2.2.24    3 weeks ago

Every single comment made by Nerm-L is ridiculous and racist.  

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Junior Principal
2.2.29  Nerm_L  replied to  Trout Giggles @2.2.26    3 weeks ago
Subdue the man in a way that doesn't require kneeling on his neck for 9 minutes. Don't the Minneapolis police have tasers? One good hit with a club behind his knee would have subdued him

Doesn't that advocate 'police brutality'?  Beating people to physically subdue them has been considered racist after the Rodney King incident.  

Obviously kneeling on George Floyd's neck for 9 minutes wasn't required since Derek Chauvin was convicted of murder.  

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
2.2.30  Trout Giggles  replied to  Nerm_L @2.2.29    3 weeks ago

You don't have to hit him hard enough to bruise him. Right behind the knee will usually bring someone down.

 
 
 
Duck Hawk
Freshman Silent
2.2.31  Duck Hawk  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @2.2.17    3 weeks ago

Thank you for writing that, I was reading these comments and was having similar thoughts as yours.

Isn't it interesting to see how little regard for human life some of our fellows NT's have? $20 is all a life is worth?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.3  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Nerm_L @2    3 weeks ago

Nerm , people do not get sent to jail for trying to pass a fake 20 dollar bill.  The fact that you seem to think Floyd deserved to go to jail that day makes me wonder about your common sense. 

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Junior Principal
2.3.1  Nerm_L  replied to  JohnRussell @2.3    3 weeks ago
Nerm , people do not get sent to jail for trying to pass a fake 20 dollar bill.  The fact that you seem to think Floyd deserved to go to jail that day makes me wonder about your common sense. 

Floyd didn't try to pass a fake 20.  Floyd actually did pass a fake 20 and thought he got away with it.

Floyd didn't possess a single counterfeit twenty; he had several.  The register clerk confronted Floyd about the counterfeit and Floyd refused to take it back.  The register clerk only had two options; lose $20 out of his paycheck or report it which led to the police call.  Floyd refusing to take back the counterfeit meant Floyd deliberately intended to defraud with counterfeit currency which is a Federal felony as well as a felony in Minnesota.

Floyd committed a felony crime by refusing to replace the counterfeit or giving back the merchandise.  Floyd defrauded Cup Food with counterfeit currency.  The crime was refusing to take back the counterfeit.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.3.2  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Nerm_L @2.3.1    3 weeks ago

As I said in another thread here a while back, I have a very good friend who was on street cop in Chicago for 30 years and I asked him if he would ever arrest someone for passing a fake 20 dollar bill. My friend literally laughed. It's not worth the time it would take to do the paperwork. A good cop would talk to Floyd and tell him that if he did not give back whatever he purchased with the bogus bill THEN he might be in trouble. But even then he would not be arrested, but would be likely given a ticket  (summons) to court. 

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Junior Principal
2.3.3  Nerm_L  replied to  JohnRussell @2.3.2    3 weeks ago
As I said in another thread here a while back, I have a very good friend who was on street cop in Chicago for 30 years and I asked him if he would ever arrest someone for passing a fake 20 dollar bill. My friend literally laughed. It's not worth the time it would take to do the paperwork. A good cop would talk to Floyd and tell him that if he did not give back whatever he purchased with the bogus bill THEN he might be in trouble. But even then he would not be arrested, but would be likely given a ticket  (summons) to court.

How do we know the responding officers didn't try that?  Derek Chauvin wasn't the first officer on the scene.  Chauvin was backing up the responding officers.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.3.4  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Nerm_L @2.3.3    3 weeks ago

People are not arrested for passing a fake 20.  Not only did my cop friend tell me that, the Minneapolis chief of police said that on the witness stand. Those cops were way out of line. 

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.3.5  Tessylo  replied to  Nerm_L @2.3.1    3 weeks ago

jrSmiley_76_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Junior Principal
2.3.6  Nerm_L  replied to  JohnRussell @2.3.4    3 weeks ago
People are not arrested for passing a fake 20.  Not only did my cop friend tell me that, the Minneapolis chief of police said that on the witness stand. Those cops were way out of line. 

So, give those committing a crime a pass when they don't make good?  George Floyd could have avoided the whole situation by either replacing the counterfeit or giving back what he bought with the counterfeit.  If Floyd had made good on the counterfeit with the register clerk the police would never have been called.

George Floyd could have made good on the counterfeit with the responding officers, too.  As you point out, arresting people for passing a fake $20 is more hassle than it is worth.  

George Floyd could have avoided the whole thing.  But Floyd decided to fight with the police over a fake $20.

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
Professor Silent
2.3.7  Mark in Wyoming   replied to  JohnRussell @2.3.2    3 weeks ago
As I said in another thread here a while back, I have a very good friend who was on street cop in Chicago for 30 years and I asked him if he would ever arrest someone for passing a fake 20 dollar bill. My friend literally laughed. It's not worth the time it would take to do the paperwork.

sadly the world does not follow chicago rules or what that jurisdiction does in different cases , here if a bogus bill is passed and the person caught , they get arrested , taken in , booked and generally released either on own recognisance or paying bail required( hopefully and usually checked to make sure those bills are not bogus as well).

different jurisdictions handle things differently and always will.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.3.8  Tessylo  replied to  Mark in Wyoming @2.3.7    3 weeks ago

jrSmiley_76_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.3.9  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Mark in Wyoming @2.3.7    3 weeks ago

Like I said, the chief of the Minneapolis police said it was not normal police procedure to arrest someone for passing a fake 20 dollar bill. Normally, the store would just ban the person who passed it. It happens all the time. 

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Expert
2.3.10  Tacos!  replied to  JohnRussell @2.3    3 weeks ago
people do not get sent to jail for trying to pass a fake 20 dollar bill

Of course they do. People go to jail for misdemeanors every day. Not everyone, to be sure. It depends on many factors. It’s possible he might have been able to go home with only a notice to appear on his misdemeanor, but he physically resisted officers. That kind of thing will pretty much always get you arrested.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.3.11  Tessylo  replied to  Tacos! @2.3.10    3 weeks ago

Victim blamer #2!  Good job there Tacos!

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.3.12  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Tacos! @2.3.10    3 weeks ago

No, they don't, in general.  I'm sure you can find one case somewhere where someone went to jail for passing a fake twenty, but it is not normal. 

Floyd never should have been arrested that day, which makes his resisting arrest a superfluous consideration. . 

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Expert
2.3.13  Tacos!  replied to  Tessylo @2.3.11    3 weeks ago

That’s so dumb.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.3.14  Tessylo  replied to  Tacos! @2.3.13    3 weeks ago

No, your unjustifiably justifying everything is.  

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Expert
2.3.15  Tacos!  replied to  JohnRussell @2.3.12    3 weeks ago

You seem to think passing counterfeit money is some kind of infraction, like jaywalking or something. It’s not.

Passing counterfeit money is a crime. In Minneapolis, it is defined by Minnesota state law. Depending on how much money we’re talking about, a person could go away for a long time. It’s less time for less money, as detailed below:

609.632 COUNTERFEITING OF CURRENCY

Subd. 3. Uttering or possessing.

Whoever, with intent to defraud, utters or possesses with intent to utter any counterfeit United States postal money order, United States currency, Federal Reserve note, or other obligation or security of the United States, having reason to know that the money order, currency, note, or obligation or security is forged, counterfeited, falsely made, altered, or printed, is guilty of offering counterfeited currency and may be sentenced as provided in subdivision 4.

Subd. 4. Penalty.

(b) A person who is convicted of violating subdivision 3 may be sentenced as follows:

(4) to imprisonment for not more than one year or to payment of a fine of not more than $3,000, or both, if the counterfeited item is used to obtain or in an attempt to obtain property or services having a value of no more than $1,000, or the aggregate face value of the counterfeited item is no more than $1,000.

I don’t know where you got the idea that people don’t go to jail for misdemeanors, but they do. Like I said, not always, but it happens every day in big numbers. It’s very often dependent on multiple factors. For example, if police think the suspect might go on committing the same crime, they’ll arrest him to stop him.

In this case, if they just ticketed Floyd, is there some reason to think he would give up trying to pass bad bills just because he got caught this one time?

There was also some concern over whether or not he was in control of himself because he appeared to be under the influence of drugs - which, it turns out, he was.

It might even be department policy to arrest for this particular offense. I don’t know all the specific thought processes that went into this particular decision, but it’s just false to imagine that it could never happen.

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Expert
2.3.16  Tacos!  replied to  Tessylo @2.3.14    3 weeks ago

Life is more complicated than you seem to think.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.3.17  Tessylo  replied to  Tacos! @2.3.16    3 weeks ago
Life is more complicated than you seem to think.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.3.18  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Tacos! @2.3.15    3 weeks ago
It might even be department policy to arrest for this particular offense. I don’t know all the specific thought processes that went into this particular decision, but it’s just false to imagine that it could never happen.

I didnt say it could never happen, I said that the police do not arrest people for passing a counterfeit bill. That (not arresting)  is the practice of the Minneapolis police force, we know this because the chief of police said so on the witness stand. 

Once again you are being contrarian just for the sake of being contrarian. Don't you ever get tired of this mode of "discourse"?

========================

former Sergeant at Harris County Sheriff's Office (1979-2009)
The procedure for this situation are pretty universal. 1. You interview the person who presented the bill to try to find out where they got the bill from. It is an assumption that they were not the counterfeiter as that would be rare. If they did not know then you get the facts in a verbal statement along with their identification. 2. Run a criminal history and report check of the individual to see if he has done this before. 3. Retrieve the fake bill and give the owner a receipt. 4. Place the bill in the evidence lock room. 5. Notify the Secret Service and send them a copy of the report. 6. Then go home and have a cold beer.

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Expert
2.3.19  Tacos!  replied to  JohnRussell @2.3.18    3 weeks ago

I have laid out reasons why an officer might choose to arrest a suspect, given the situation. I don’t know why you don’t want to pay any attention to it, but that’s not my problem. Is there a point to such intransigence? Are you just trying to be contrarian? Or are you asserting that he was being arrested for some other reason?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.3.20  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Tacos! @2.3.19    3 weeks ago
Or are you asserting that he was being arrested for some other reason?

No, there is audio of one of the cops telling him he was being arrested for counterfeiting . The cops were fuck ups because it is not the practice of the Minneapolis police department to arrest people for passing a bad 20 dollar bill. We're done , I am not going around on this merry go round. 

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
2.3.21  Dulay  replied to  Mark in Wyoming @2.3.7    3 weeks ago

The Minnesota prosecutor stated in court that Floyd could have and should have been issued a summons. 

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.3.22  Tessylo  replied to  JohnRussell @2.3.18    3 weeks ago
"Once again you are being contrarian just for the sake of being contrarian. Don't you ever get tired of this mode of "discourse"?

That's all he's got.  It's quite tiresome.  

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
2.4  Ozzwald  replied to  Nerm_L @2    3 weeks ago
George Floyd was not a role model of civic virtue. 

Correct

George Floyd was not a 'good' guy. 

Correct

George Floyd was an unheroic criminal attempting to pass counterfeit money to steal from a low paid register clerk. 

Correct

We shouldn't want our children to become a George Floyd. 

Correct

However none of the things listed condone a death penalty, so they are immaterial to the case. 

What Derek Chauvin did was wrong but wasn't racist.

A physical position, standing, sitting, kneeling cannot be racist, you are correct.  HOWEVER the reason he is standing, sitting, kneeling could ABSOLUTELY be racist.

Chauvin didn't behave in a professional manner.

Chauvin did not behave in a humane manner, his miss-actions are deeper than not professional.

But what Chauvin did is understandable because someone like George Floyd should only be treated with contempt.

His personal opinion of Floyd should not interfere with how he treats another human being. 

Your feeling that Floyd should be treated with contempt would indicate that you feel he has no redeeming qualities, and does not contribute to society whatsoever.  Yet you have supportted other criminals right here on this message board.  In fact, right now, you are supporting someone that has been convicted of murder.

Why are you supporting a convicted murderer, Chauvin on his racism charges, but not a petty thief, Floyd?

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Junior Principal
2.4.1  Nerm_L  replied to  Ozzwald @2.4    3 weeks ago
His personal opinion of Floyd should not interfere with how he treats another human being. 

That's why Chauvin's behavior wasn't professional.  Derek Chauvin wasn't the first officer on the scene.  Floyd had already been resisting the responding officers.  

Floyd used several tricks that would allow a lawyer to claim his rights were violated and argue for reduced charges and reduced sentence.  Floyd fought which requires harsher control methods.  Floyd admitted he 'ate too many drugs' to create the impression he wasn't responsible for his actions.  Drugged individuals are often more difficult to control, too.  Floyd did everything he could to create a situation that required harsher control methods.  Floyd was attempting to create a 'police brutality' dodge.

 
 
 
devangelical
PhD Principal
2.4.2  devangelical  replied to  Nerm_L @2.4.1    3 weeks ago
Floyd was attempting to create a 'police brutality' dodge.

looks like it worked... /s

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.4.3  Tessylo  replied to  Nerm_L @2.4.1    3 weeks ago

JFC - jrSmiley_76_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
2.4.4  Ozzwald  replied to  Nerm_L @2.4.1    3 weeks ago
That's why Chauvin's behavior wasn't professional.

It wasn't human, killing someone goes way past professional behavior.

Floyd had already been resisting the responding officers.  

Resisting the police is not a capitol charge, does not support the death penalty that he received.

Floyd used several tricks that would allow a lawyer to claim his rights were violated and argue for reduced charges and reduced sentence.

So kill him so his lawyer can't make those claims????

Floyd fought which requires harsher control methods.

Do you consider killing him as a harsher control method?  If not, your claim is worthless.

Floyd admitted he 'ate too many drugs' to create the impression he wasn't responsible for his actions.  Drugged individuals are often more difficult to control, too.  Floyd did everything he could to create a situation that required harsher control methods.

So you do consider killing him as a control method.

 
 
 
pat wilson
Professor Guide
2.4.5  pat wilson  replied to  Nerm_L @2.4.1    3 weeks ago
'ate too many drugs'

Frank: "Having heard it in context, are you able to tell what Mr. Floyd is saying there?"

Reyerson: "Yes. I believe Mr. Floyd was saying, ‘I ain’t do no drugs.’"

Frank: "So that’s a little different than what you were asked about when you only saw a portion of the video, correct?"

Reyerson: "Yes, sir."

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Junior Principal
2.4.6  Nerm_L  replied to  pat wilson @2.4.5    3 weeks ago
Frank: "Having heard it in context, are you able to tell what Mr. Floyd is saying there?"

Reyerson: "Yes. I believe Mr. Floyd was saying, ‘I ain’t do no drugs.’"

Frank: "So that’s a little different than what you were asked about when you only saw a portion of the video, correct?"

Reyerson: "Yes, sir."

And?  The only thing that changes is that George Floyd lied.  Doesn't seem to bolster the case for Floyd being a role model or memorializing Floyd as a martyr.

How does a different hearing of what George Floyd said change anything?  George Floyd wasn't a hero.  George Floyd was not a model of civic virtue.  George Floyd was not a good guy.  George Floyd still fought with the police to avoid being placed in the squad car.  The police still had to physically subdue George Floyd before taking him into custody.

So, what's the non-racist way to handle a situation like what George Floyd did?

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.4.7  Tessylo  replied to  Nerm_L @2.4.6    3 weeks ago

You've showed us all what/who you are.  [Deleted]

You claimed to be disabled in one of your rants.  You've showed us your true colors.  You've showed us all what your disability is.  

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
2.4.8  Ozzwald  replied to  Nerm_L @2.4.6    3 weeks ago

So, what's the non-racist way to handle a situation like what George Floyd did?

We'll, let's start with not killing him.  Then we'll go to handcuffs.  If he is still violent you include leg restraints.

Remember, Floyd was already on the ground, handcuffed and restrained when he was killed.  He had already stopped resisting, and was in fact unconscious while still being knelt upon.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Junior Principal
2.4.9  Nerm_L  replied to  Tessylo @2.4.7    3 weeks ago
You've showed us all what/who you are.  Why do you continue to be so slimy?  Your racist views are quite obvious.  

Then what is the non-racist way to handle a situation like what George Floyd did?

George Floyd passed a counterfeit.  Floyd was confronted.  Floyd refused to make good on the counterfeit.  The police were called.

What should the police do when they respond to that call?  How was the police supposed to resolve that situation?

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
2.4.10  Trout Giggles  replied to  Nerm_L @2.4.9    3 weeks ago
Then what is the non-racist way to handle a situation like what George Floyd did?

That question has been answered numerous times already. You don't like the answers, cool. Now move the fuck on

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.4.11  Tessylo  replied to  Trout Giggles @2.4.10    3 weeks ago

[Deleted]

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.4.12  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Trout Giggles @2.4.10    3 weeks ago

Certain people have their minds made up. such as -

George Floyd should not have been treated like anyone else who passed a bad bill, in other words talked to, and perhaps even coaxed to co-operate in returning the item bought with the bill, George Floyd needed to be immediately confronted and arrested .

I dont give a damn what anybody on Newstalkers says, people are not normally or even often arrested and handcuffed for passing a fake 20 dollar bill. Not only do I have a friend who was a street cop for 30 years who told me that, the Minneapolis chief of police said that on the witness stand, and simple internet inquiry shows that. 

Why do people want to believe Floyd was a desperate criminal who deserved what happened?  That is the question. 

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Junior Principal
2.4.13  Nerm_L  replied to  Ozzwald @2.4.8    3 weeks ago
Remember, Floyd was already on the ground, handcuffed and restrained when he was killed.  He had already stopped resisting, and was in fact unconscious while still being knelt upon.

George Floyd was in the back of the squad car and fought his way out while handcuffed.  People are cuffed before they are put in the car and, at one point, Floyd was in the car.  Floyd was on the pavement by the car because that's where he was physically subdued after fighting in the back of the squad.

Derek Chauvin was convicted for murdering George Floyd.  The jury already agreed with the argument that Floyd had stopped resisting when he was killed.  But the crime committed by Chauvin doesn't turn George Floyd into a role model to be memorialized.  Chauvin's crime doesn't make George Floyd a good guy.  A bad cop murdered a petty criminal.  There aren't any heroes in the story.

What can be done to improve things when the police are responding to the next call over a petty criminal like George Floyd?  Do we just continue convicting cops for murdering petty criminals?

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.4.14  Tessylo  replied to  Nerm_L @2.4.13    3 weeks ago

You continue to show your true colors.  We should all just ignore you now.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.4.15  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Nerm_L @2.4.13    3 weeks ago
Do we just continue convicting cops for murdering petty criminals?

If cops continue to murder petty criminals, of course you continue to convict them. Duh?

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.4.16  Tessylo  replied to  JohnRussell @2.4.15    3 weeks ago

Each comment by this racist is even more stupid.  We need to ignore him now.  

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.4.17  Tessylo  replied to  Nerm_L @2.4.13    3 weeks ago

So murder of a petty criminal is okay by you.  That the murdering pig was the judge, jury, and executioner of a petty crime of a HUMAN BEING.  

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Junior Principal
2.4.18  Nerm_L  replied to  JohnRussell @2.4.12    3 weeks ago
I dont give a damn what anybody on Newstalkers says, people are not normally or even often arrested and handcuffed for passing a fake 20 dollar bill. Not only do I have a friend who was a street cop for 30 years who told me that, the Minneapolis chief of police said that on the witness stand, and simple internet inquiry shows that. 

So, what actually happens? 

The police aren't shaking down people to find fake 20's; they're responding to a call.  Someone has been cheated and they called the police.

Do the police just tell whoever was cheated to write it off?  Shouldn't whoever called the police expect the police to do something?  What do the police really do when responding to a call over passing counterfeits? 

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.4.19  Tessylo  replied to  Nerm_L @2.4.18    3 weeks ago

So the murder of a human being for $20 is fine with you.  Got it.  I don't know why I keep responding to your ignorance.  

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.4.20  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Nerm_L @2.4.9    3 weeks ago
Neil Picquet
former Sergeant at Harris County Sheriff's Office (1979-2009)
The procedure for this situation are pretty universal. 1. You interview the person who presented the bill to try to find out where they got the bill from. It is an assumption that they were not the counterfeiter as that would be rare. If they did not know then you get the facts in a verbal statement along with their identification. 2. Run a criminal history and report check of the individual to see if he has done this before. 3. Retrieve the fake bill and give the owner a receipt. 4. Place the bill in the evidence lock room. 5. Notify the Secret Service and send them a copy of the report. 6. Then go home and have a cold beer.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
2.4.21  Trout Giggles  replied to  JohnRussell @2.4.12    3 weeks ago

Because he was a black man murdered by a white man. Ever watch The Godfather? Remember how the Corleone family paid the press to print bad stuff about the police captain Michael shot? It was so that the murder didn't seem so heinous.

I think that's what's going on here. They have to make George Floyd out to be Charles Manson so they can feel justified in their happiness another black man was murdered

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
2.4.22  Ozzwald  replied to  Nerm_L @2.4.13    3 weeks ago
George Floyd was in the back of the squad car and fought his way out while handcuffed.

So in your opinion they have the right to kill him for that???

Floyd was on the pavement by the car because that's where he was physically subdued after fighting in the back of the squad.

And being choked out by a knee for almost 10 minutes, while lying on the ground.  You left that part out.

But the crime committed by Chauvin doesn't turn George Floyd into a role model to be memorialized.

Nobody has ever advocated for Floyd to be a role model except for you.  Perhaps you should review your definition for "role model".

Chauvin's crime doesn't make George Floyd a good guy.  A bad cop murdered a petty criminal.  There aren't any heroes in the story.

Once again you are arguing against something that nobody is claiming.

Do we just continue convicting cops for murdering petty criminals?

Yes!!!! 

You just said it yourself, they are "murdering" petty criminals.  Murder is against the law, and murderers should always be sought out and prosecuted.  It should also be pointed out that those "petty criminals" that are being murdered by cops are mostly African Americans.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Junior Principal
2.4.23  Nerm_L  replied to  JohnRussell @2.4.20    3 weeks ago
The procedure for this situation are pretty universal. 1. You interview the person who presented the bill to try to find out where they got the bill from. It is an assumption that they were not the counterfeiter as that would be rare. If they did not know then you get the facts in a verbal statement along with their identification. 2. Run a criminal history and report check of the individual to see if he has done this before. 3. Retrieve the fake bill and give the owner a receipt. 4. Place the bill in the evidence lock room. 5. Notify the Secret Service and send them a copy of the report. 6. Then go home and have a cold beer.

How does that do anything for whoever was cheated and called the police?  

In the George Floyd case, the counterfeit wasn't discovered until after Floyd had passed the counterfeit.  George Floyd's crime was refusing to make good on the counterfeit.  Floyd didn't try to pass a counterfeit; Floyd succeeded in passing a counterfeit.  

Not quite the same situation being described by Neil Picquet.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
2.4.24  Dulay  replied to  Nerm_L @2.4.23    3 weeks ago
George Floyd's crime was refusing to make good on the counterfeit.

Please cite your evidence for that claim. 

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Junior Principal
2.4.25  Nerm_L  replied to  Ozzwald @2.4.22    3 weeks ago
So in your opinion they have the right to kill him for that???

Obviously not since Derek Chauvin was convicted for murdering George Floyd.

All those focus group tested arguments won't work because Chauvin didn't get away with anything.

And being choked out by a knee for almost 10 minutes, while lying on the ground.  You left that part out.

Chauvin was convicted of murder for doing that.  No one has been protesting that conviction other than fringe lunatics.

Nobody has ever advocated for Floyd to be a role model except for you.  Perhaps you should review your definition for "role model".

Then where does George Floyd fit in the BLM movement?  Is Floyd only politically useful because he was murdered?  Does the progress of civil rights depend upon the notoriety of symbolic victims?  

You just said it yourself, they are "murdering" petty criminals.  Murder is against the law, and murderers should always be sought out and prosecuted.  It should also be pointed out that those "petty criminals" that are being murdered by cops are mostly African Americans.

The number of Black people murdered by police are only a tiny fraction of the all the Black people being murdered.  Does elevating George Floyd to the status of hero, martyr, or symbolic victim address what is going on?

Derek Chauvin was convicted of murdering George Floyd.  Justice was served.  The system worked as it is supposed to work.  George Floyd was victim that received justice.  Now what happens to George Floyd?

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
2.4.26  Dulay  replied to  Nerm_L @2.4.25    3 weeks ago
Chauvin was convicted of murder for doing that. 

Yes but how does THAT 'do anything for whoever was cheated and called the police'? 

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Junior Principal
2.4.27  Nerm_L  replied to  Dulay @2.4.26    3 weeks ago
Yes but how does THAT 'do anything for whoever was cheated and called the police'? 

Chauvin murdering Floyd doesn't do anything for the real victim in what transpired.  Justice for the people that were cheated by Floyd has been completely ignored.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Junior Principal
2.4.28  Nerm_L  replied to  Trout Giggles @2.4.21    3 weeks ago
Because he was a black man murdered by a white man. Ever watch The Godfather? Remember how the Corleone family paid the press to print bad stuff about the police captain Michael shot? It was so that the murder didn't seem so heinous. I think that's what's going on here. They have to make George Floyd out to be Charles Manson so they can feel justified in their happiness another black man was murdered

I'll refer back to my original comment in @2.

Consider that the whole racism meme is phony.  The country has invested a lot of effort and money into redressing the overt racism of the past.  Civil rights really did reshape American society.

What has the country accomplished?  Why should the country invest more effort and money?

The seeded article discusses America's indifference to racism.  As the following discussion shows, the racism meme depends heavily upon victimhood at the hands of white institutions.  The discussion appears to be an attempt to protect George Floyd's status as racial victim of white institutional authority.  But institutional authority convicted Derek Chauvin.  Chauvin didn't get away with anything.

So what does the story of George Floyd really tell us about systemic racism?  George Floyd is not a sterling example of what civil rights is supposed to achieve.  Yet George Floyd has become a highly visible symbol of civil rights.

Elevating George Floyd to the status of symbolic victim to advance civil rights seems rather phony.  The hope of civil rights was that removing the barriers of Jim Crow and segregation along with affirmative action would allow the Black population to become constructive participants in society.  Civil rights was supposed to be about integrating the Black population into society and not about Black liberation.

What has been accomplished?  Why should the country invest more effort and money into civil rights?  If George Floyd is a symbol of what civil rights has accomplished then why should the country continue to do more?

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
2.4.29  Trout Giggles  replied to  Nerm_L @2.4.28    3 weeks ago
Consider that the whole racism meme is phony.

We're done here. I can't argue with someone that just refuses to see reality

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
2.4.30  Ozzwald  replied to  Nerm_L @2.4.25    3 weeks ago
So in your opinion they have the right to kill him for that???
Obviously not since Derek Chauvin was convicted for murdering George Floyd.

I said YOUR OPINION.  Your arguments in this comment thread indicate that YOUR OPINION is that Chauvin did nothing wrong.

Chauvin was convicted of murder for doing that.  No one has been protesting that conviction other than fringe lunatics.

Again, we're talking YOUR OPINION, not anyone elses.

Then where does George Floyd fit in the BLM movement?

He was a black man wrongly murdered by a police officer.  Exactly what BLM is about.

Is Floyd only politically useful because he was murdered?

You don't seem to understand BLM.  It only pertains to murdered black people.

The number of Black people murdered by police are only a tiny fraction of the all the Black people being murdered.

So what?  It is one that can be addressed.

Does elevating George Floyd to the status of hero, martyr, or symbolic victim address what is going on?

Nobody has done that, he is merely being held out as an example.

Derek Chauvin was convicted of murdering George Floyd.  Justice was served.  The system worked as it is supposed to work.

WRONG!!!  If the system had worked, Floyd would not be dead!

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Junior Principal
2.4.31  Nerm_L  replied to  Ozzwald @2.4.30    3 weeks ago
I said YOUR OPINION.  Your arguments in this comment thread indicate that YOUR OPINION is that Chauvin did nothing wrong.

I haven't tried to defend Derek Chauvin.  Why are you trying to defend George Floyd?

WRONG!!!  If the system had worked, Floyd would not be dead!

The system cannot prevent crime or murder.  The system can only punish crime and murder.

Based on your argument, if the system had worked Floyd would not have done what he did, either.  If the system of civil rights had worked then George Floyd wouldn't have been a petty criminal.  The police would not have been called.  And Chauvin would not have had an opportunity to murder George Floyd.

A petty crime brought Derek Chauvin and George Floyd together at that moment in time.  Floyd wasn't randomly chosen because he was Black.  Two criminals fought it out in the street and one died.  The bystanders did nothing to prevent Floyd's murder; they only made a snuff film.  Protesters gathered and punished the victim of George Floyd's petty crime for calling the police.

What about this story will change America's indifference to racism?

 
 
 
Duck Hawk
Freshman Silent
2.4.32  Duck Hawk  replied to  Nerm_L @2.4.13    3 weeks ago
What can be done to improve things when the police are responding to the next call over a petty criminal like George Floyd?  Do we just continue convicting cops for murdering petty criminals?

Yes that is is exactly what we do to any cop who isn't commits an extrajudicial killing. The question should be how do we retrain our police so they don't feel the need to reach for a firearm when dealing with petty criminals. They are paid to be POLICE not Judges, Juries or Executioners of the people they are supposed to "protect and serve."

 
 
 
pat wilson
Professor Guide
2.4.33  pat wilson  replied to  Duck Hawk @2.4.32    3 weeks ago
The question should be how do we retrain our police

I think it's more of "how do we recruit our police force". Requirements to be an LEO need to be fastidious and discriminating. 

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Junior Principal
2.4.34  Nerm_L  replied to  Duck Hawk @2.4.32    3 weeks ago
Yes that is is exactly what we do to any cop who isn't commits an extrajudicial killing. The question should be how do we retrain our police so they don't feel the need to reach for a firearm when dealing with petty criminals. They are paid to be POLICE not Judges, Juries or Executioners of the people they are supposed to "protect and serve."

Yeah, that's the question that's been asked.  How should the cops handle a situation like what Floyd did?  George Floyd wasn't shot so firearms has nothing to do with what happened.

Did the police handle the situation properly until Chauvin put a knee on Floyd's neck?  A lot happened between the time when the police were called and when Floyd ended up on the pavement under Chauvin's knee.  If Floyd had survived would that have changed the complaints about the police?

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
2.4.35  Ozzwald  replied to  Nerm_L @2.4.31    3 weeks ago
I haven't tried to defend Derek Chauvin.

Perhaps you should reread your own comments, that's exactly what you have been doing.

The system cannot prevent crime or murder.  The system can only punish crime and murder.

Not entirely true, but fine for now.

Based on your argument, if the system had worked Floyd would not have done what he did, either.

Only if you are moving the goalposts and changing which "system" we have been talking about.

If the system of civil rights had worked then George Floyd wouldn't have been a petty criminal.  The police would not have been called.  And Chauvin would not have had an opportunity to murder George Floyd.

Yup, that's what you're doing.  Going full on strawman.

A petty crime brought Derek Chauvin and George Floyd together at that moment in time.  Floyd wasn't randomly chosen because he was Black.  Two criminals fought it out in the street and one died.

You are reaching....  Trying to make it sound like a fist fight. 

Floyd was unarmed, handcuffed, and helpless, face down on the ground when he was murdered.

The bystanders did nothing to prevent Floyd's murder; they only made a snuff film.

Apparently they intimidated Chauvin by telling him to get off Floyd.  Or did you miss that part of the defense's argument?

Protesters gathered and punished the victim of George Floyd's petty crime for calling the police.

They punished the shop owner??  What the hell are you talking about?!?!?!?!???  Or are you now trying to claim that Chauvin is the victim now?

What about this story will change America's indifference to racism?

Wow...   Just wow.....

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
2.4.36  Ozzwald  replied to  Nerm_L @2.4.34    3 weeks ago
Yeah, that's the question that's been asked.  How should the cops handle a situation like what Floyd did?  George Floyd wasn't shot so firearms has nothing to do with what happened.

People are arrested for petty crimes hundreds of times every single day, maybe thousands.  And you cannot conceive of that being handled without murdering the suspect????

Did the police handle the situation properly until Chauvin put a knee on Floyd's neck?

Doesn't matter, there was no purpose for Floyd's neck to be knelt on for 10 minutes.  Testimony has already shown that it was not a departmentally accepted method of restraint.

If Floyd had survived would that have changed the complaints about the police?

Nobody would have complained about Floyd being murdered then.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Junior Principal
2.4.37  Nerm_L  replied to  Ozzwald @2.4.36    3 weeks ago
People are arrested for petty crimes hundreds of times every single day, maybe thousands.  And you cannot conceive of that being handled without murdering the suspect????

Yes, I can conceive of people being arrested for petty crimes without being murdered.  As you point out, that happens every day.

Doesn't matter, there was no purpose for Floyd's neck to be knelt on for 10 minutes.  Testimony has already shown that it was not a departmentally accepted method of restraint.

There hasn't been any disagreement that Derek Chauvin committed murder.  There hasn't been any disagreement that Chauvin shouldn't have put his knee on Floyd's neck for 10 minutes.

What bothers me is crap like this:

I agree there is a need for police reforms.  But I'll oppose anything with George Floyd's name hung on it.  George Floyd represents a failure of civil rights; his name shouldn't be associated with anything to do with civil rights.

Call it the Black Lives Justice in Policing Act if there is a need to pander to the Black population.  Don't try to turn George Floyd into a hero or martyr for civil rights because George Floyd didn't do anything to earn that kind of recognition.

It's crap like the 'George Floyd Justice in Policing Act' that makes Americans indifferent to racism.  Hanging George Floyd's name onto that kind of legislation only cheapens the reform effort.  It's nothing but pandering to a meme.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
2.4.38  Ozzwald  replied to  Nerm_L @2.4.37    3 weeks ago
I agree there is a need for police reforms.  But I'll oppose anything with George Floyd's name hung on it.  George Floyd represents a failure of civil rights; his name shouldn't be associated with anything to do with civil rights.

Why not?  Do you believe Rosa Parks was an angel?  Yet she may be one of the biggest names in the civil rights movement.  George Floyd's incident may be the kicking off point of something bigger, and something lasting.  Merely citing his name is not proclaiming him a saint.

Call it the Black Lives Justice in Policing Act if there is a need to pander to the Black population.  Don't try to turn George Floyd into a hero or martyr for civil rights because George Floyd didn't do anything to earn that kind of recognition.

You seem to have a personal issue with him.  Me?  I don't care what it is called, since that is secondary to what it does.  If it pushes reform, for all I care you can call it the Trump Justice in Policing Act.  He's been trying to take credit for everything else anyway.

It's crap like the 'George Floyd Justice in Policing Act' that makes Americans indifferent to racism.  Hanging George Floyd's name onto that kind of legislation only cheapens the reform effort.  It's nothing but pandering to a meme.

No.  It merely names the finally straw or lynch pin, nothing more.  You, personally, are putting more weight on the name.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
2.4.39  Dulay  replied to  Nerm_L @2.4.23    3 weeks ago

Still waiting for evidence of your oft repeated claim that Floyd refused 'to make good on the counterfeit'. While you're at it, please include evidence that Floyd was confronted about the counterfeit at all.

Only ONE witness, Christopher Martin, could have testified to that fact and he didn't say a word about confronting Floyd or asking him to make good on the $20. 

So where the fuck did you get that crap from Nerm? 

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Junior Principal
2.4.40  Nerm_L  replied to  Dulay @2.4.39    3 weeks ago
So where the fuck did you get that crap from Nerm? 

Do you need more?

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
2.4.41  Dulay  replied to  Nerm_L @2.4.40    3 weeks ago
Do you need more?

No Nerm, I just need ONE that actually proves that Floyd refused to 'make good on the counterfeit' $20. 

NONE of your links do so. Try harder.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.4.42  Tessylo  replied to  Nerm_L @2.4.34    3 weeks ago

It seems some are only here to incite and inflame, just like the former occupant of the White House and his supporters.  

Obviously Mr. Floyd's life was only worth $20 to some.  

Sad.  Deplorable.  

Shame some have no empathy or compassion when it involves someone else's life.  

 
 
 
Snuffy
Junior Participates
3  Snuffy    3 weeks ago
Ending racism is surely a long term project, a generational thing that has already consumed many generations

So very true. It is a multi-generational process, but it's better then it was 50 years ago. I believe a lot of people are also tired of the broad-brush approach and being told everything they do and are is racist. Did I as a white person benefit from being white?  Yes, but that was beyond my control so why is it my fault? I try hard not to do racist things but am still painted as a racist so it gets tiring. Eventually people start to tune out because of that broad brush. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
3.2  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Snuffy @3    3 weeks ago

I always say "if the shoe fits" . People generally know whether or not they are racially prejudiced. 

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Participates
4  Sean Treacy    3 weeks ago

eting ratings with an overall refusal of many white Americans to accept that NOW is the time to put racism behind u

No one objects to putting racism behind us, they object to the left pushing more racism and  using non-racist occurrences to promote" the racism is everywhere and all consuming" that is the left's current narrative. "Demonizing white people for being born" which is the thrust of left wing education and threatening police for shooting someone about to stab a young black girl (which Lebron James did) will piss people off.  Reducing everything to race is only going to cause more racism. 

If racism was truly as prevalent as the left likes to believe it is, these sort of things wouldn't have to be faked. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
4.1  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Sean Treacy @4    3 weeks ago

I will just say this, social media magnifies and exasperates everything, and I would admit that on occasion people protesting racism go about it in questionable ways. Nonetheless, the problem is white racism not the people who object to it. Maybe those who are offended by things LeBron James says should grow a little thicker skin for the greater good. 

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
4.1.1  Tessylo  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1    3 weeks ago

They'd rather whine that they're perpetual victims though.  What else would they do with their time?

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
4.1.2  XXJefferson51  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1    3 weeks ago

You actually think that the tweet by James about the Columbus police officer was ok?  

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
4.1.3  author  JohnRussell  replied to  XXJefferson51 @4.1.2    3 weeks ago

Didnt even read it. I'm not that interested in what LeBron James says. 

 
 
 
MonsterMash
Sophomore Participates
4.1.4  MonsterMash  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1.3    3 weeks ago
Didnt even read it. I'm not that interested in what LeBron James says.

Nice way to dodge the question. Maybe you didn't read what James said but you sure as hell know what he said.

Will you answer the question, I doubt it.

You actually think that the tweet by James about the Columbus police officer was ok?  

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
4.1.5  Tessylo  replied to  MonsterMash @4.1.4    3 weeks ago

Which part of 'John is not that interested in what Lebron James has to say' escapes you?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
4.1.6  author  JohnRussell  replied to  MonsterMash @4.1.4    3 weeks ago

I actually dont know what he said. But I'll look it up and comment on it if you want. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
4.1.7  author  JohnRussell  replied to  MonsterMash @4.1.4    3 weeks ago

www.thesun.co.uk   /news/14781560/lebron-james-tweet-deleted-reardon-makhia-bryant-ohio/

What did Lebron James say in his tweet and why was it deleted?...

Alice Peacock 4-5 minutes   4/27/2021


NBA star Lebron James posted, then deleted, a tweet which appeared to threaten the cop who fatally shot sixteen-year-old Ma'Khia Bryant.

Officer Nicolas Reardon killed Bryant as she attacked another girl while holding a knife on Tuesday.

🔵 Read our   Ma'Khia Bryant shooting live blog   for the latest updates

68fecbcd-4eab-4a2c-94bb-243987f15170.jpg?strip=all&w=960https://www.the-sun.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2021/04/68fecbcd-4eab-4a2c-94bb-243987f15170.jpg?w=480 480w, 620w, 670w, 960w, 1240w, 1005w, 1440w, 1860w, 1340w, 1920w, 2480w" >

4

Lebron has been under fire for his comments, which appeared to threaten the cop who fatally shot the sixteen-year-old Credit: Getty Images - Getty

What did Lebron James say in his tweet?

NBA star LeBron   tweeted out a picture of the Ohio cop along with the caption: "You're next. #ACCOUNTABILITY."

The tweet, which was posted on Thursday 22 April, the day after Bryant’s death, was deleted soon after.

The LA Lakers player later hit back at criticism of his tweet and explained why he deleted the post.

Bryant was shot dead by officer Nicholas Reardon in Columbus,   Ohio   on Tuesday, 20 April, moments before Derek   Chauvin was found guilty   of murdering   George Floyd in Minnesota.

NINTCHDBPICT000648842173-7.jpg?strip=all&w=527https://www.the-sun.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2021/04/NINTCHDBPICT000648842173-7.jpg?w=480 480w, 620w, 670w, 960w, 1240w, 1005w, 1440w, 1860w, 1340w, 1920w, 2480w" >

4

Lebron's original tweet was deleted Credit: Twitter

NINTCHDBPICT000648916113.jpg?strip=all&w=634https://www.the-sun.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2021/04/NINTCHDBPICT000648916113.jpg?w=480 480w, 620w, 670w, 960w, 1240w, 1005w, 1440w, 1860w, 1340w, 1920w, 2480w" >

4

Lebron came under fire for his original tweet about the Ohio cop Credit: Twitter

Just   one day after the fatal shooting , a group of between 200 and 250 activists marched through the streets of Columbus, chanting "black lives matter" and "say her name".

Beginning at 9:30pm, the group marched down Marconi Boulevard past the Ohio Supreme Court.

Earlier   Wednesday, protests and a vigil were also staged across the city,   with groups gathering to pray for the Bryant family.

A 16-minute silence was held during the vigil to remember the teen, with each minute representing one year of Bryant's life.

What has Lebron James said since? 

Lebron continued to post about Bryant’s death on Twitter after taking down the image and accompanying tweet.

He wrote: “ANGER does any of us any good and that includes myself!”

NINTCHDBPICT000648960993.jpg?strip=all&w=864https://www.the-sun.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2021/04/NINTCHDBPICT000648960993.jpg?w=480 480w, 620w, 670w, 960w, 1240w, 1005w, 1440w, 1860w, 1340w, 1920w, 2480w" >

4

Bryant was shot dead by officer Nicholas Reardon in Columbus, Ohio on Tuesday, 20 April Credit: Enterprise

“Gathering all the facts and educating does though! My anger still is here for what happened that lil girl. My sympathy for her family and may justice prevail!”

He followed this on with another tweet, which said: “I’m so damn tired of seeing Black people killed by police.”

“I took the tweet down because it’s being used to create more hate.”

“This isn’t about one officer.  it’s about the entire system and they always use our words to create more racism. I am so desperate for more ACCOUNTABILITY.”

The basketball star's original inflammatory post about Reardon was blasted by Twitter users.

Arkansas Sen Tom Cotton called out the sportsman, posting: "Lebron James is inciting violence against an Ohio police officer.

"This is disgraceful and dangerous. Is the NBA okay with this? Is Twitter?"

Ohio Rep Mike Loychik tweeted: "People like LeBron James and his friends on the left are driving good people away from careers in law enforcement.

"This is the exact OPPOSITE of how to improve policing."

Former baseball star Lenny Dykstra wrote: "On behalf of pro athletes, current and former, I apologize for how #LeBronJames just showed his inner Maxine Waters and made a very real, ongoing threat to the life of the officer who quickly acted to prevent a knife attack from becoming worse."Many of us appreciate what LEOs do!"

However, some people defended LeBron.

One wrote: "A cop just killed a little girl and y'all are more concerned about Lebron James tweeted that the cop is next to take accountability???? GET REAL."

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
4.1.8  author  JohnRussell  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1.7    3 weeks ago

I dont approve of Bryant's tweet ("You're next") although I doubt he was threatening the cop with violence. I think he was 'threatening' him with a murder trial ala Derek Chauvin. 

Some people think that what James said is worse than the initial racism in whatever may be the case. That I dont agree with. 

The cop in Columbus appears to have done the right thing, given he had no time to think of an alternative to shooting the girl with the knife. 

 
 
 
MonsterMash
Sophomore Participates
4.1.10  MonsterMash  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1.8    3 weeks ago
The cop in Columbus appears to have done the right thing, given he had no time to think of an alternative to shooting the girl with the knife. 

If he hadn't shot her the headline would be:

WHITE COP DOESN'T DO ANYTHING TO STOP THE BRUTAL STABBING DEATH OF A BLACK CHILD.

 
 
 
Drakkonis
Senior Guide
4.1.11  Drakkonis  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1    3 weeks ago
Nonetheless, the problem is white racism

What, exactly, is white racism? 

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
4.2  XXJefferson51  replied to  Sean Treacy @4    3 weeks ago

There is no systemic racism in America now.  There are individuals and small associations of them that are racist but that is not a legitimate indictment of our society as a whole.  Present day white progressives and BLM extremists present that all the gains by MLK Jr. and the civil rights movement and the Caucasians who took part in it never happened.  

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
4.2.1  Tessylo  replied to  XXJefferson51 @4.2    3 weeks ago

jrSmiley_25_smiley_image.gifjrSmiley_44_smiley_image.gifjrSmiley_88_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Expert
5  Tacos!    3 weeks ago

There is more work to do for sure, but I don’t know how you can look at America and not admit that the really heavy lifting has been done. Too many people who comment on race issues in America want it to be all one way or the other, and it’s not. They want to be angry at America like it’s still mired deep in Jim Crow. It’s not.

We have made incredible progress in this country. There are racists in the system, of course, but the system itself - officially - is intolerant of them. I’m not saying “be satisfied!” by any means. We still have plenty of bad apples to expose, and some systems - like policing - still need reform to help us remove them from positions of power so we can enjoy a more just society.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
5.1  Tessylo  replied to  Tacos! @5    3 weeks ago

Blah, blah, blah

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Principal
6  Hal A. Lujah    3 weeks ago

There’s no question that racism still exists, but I don’t think you can teach the racism out of people.  One of the dumbest interviews I think I’ve ever seen was on msnbc, when a reporter was asking random people how they felt after the Chauvin verdict.  Some really white guy said he was satisfied with it, and then went on to say that he was actively trying to learn how to treat black people better - saying he even “googled it”.  I was embarrassed for him, since he clearly wasn’t the racist type to begin with.  Then msnbc decided that that sound bite would make a great commercial for them, and now I see it over and over.  I cringe every time I see it - if I were black I would cringe even harder.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
6.1  Trout Giggles  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @6    3 weeks ago

Whatever happened to the Golden Rule? One doesn't need to google that...OTOH maybe some do

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Principal
6.1.1  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Trout Giggles @6.1    3 weeks ago

Exactly.  Think back to the video footage of the asian lady being viciously beaten in broad daylight, and the hotel worker responded by locking the door.  The guy beating her was black. Maybe the situation was too socially confusing for him.  He should have googled what to do.  /s

 
 
 
Drakkonis
Senior Guide
6.2  Drakkonis  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @6    3 weeks ago
Some really white guy said he was satisfied with it, and then went on to say that he was actively trying to learn how to treat black people better - saying he even “googled it”.

I think that this is a result of trying to make Critical Race Theory both the mode for identifying what racism is and the source for determining how to respond to it. To my mind, CRT actually increases racism as it has as it's foundation that society is experienced and defined by race. Under such a system, racism can never go away since race is the starting point for any societal interaction within a population.

This answers Trout Giggle's question concerning the Golden Rule. Under CRT, the Golden Rule would not be a functional ideology since attempting to treat someone of another race according to the Golden Rule would be seen as imposing your race's supposed superior morality on that other race. In other words, it would be an act of racism, since everything under CRT is seen through the lens of race before any other consideration. 

For myself, I'll just stick with the Golden Rule. That's all that is really needed to not be racist. 

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Principal
7  Hal A. Lujah    3 weeks ago

If you haven’t seen this one yet, brace yourself.

 

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
7.1  Tessylo  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @7    3 weeks ago

Because the woman went around him because he was idling in his car?

Now the apartment complex where he lives is looking to evict him.  

Good!

 
 
 
pat wilson
Professor Guide
7.2  pat wilson  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @7    3 weeks ago

What an asshole ! I love the lady laughing at him.

 
 
Loading...
Loading...

Who is online



Texan1211
Gazoo
Hallux
pat wilson
Bob Nelson
Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom


37 visitors