Nerm_L

Tis the Season for Bashing Christian Celebration of Christmas

  
By:  Nerm_L  •  Opinion  •  5 months ago  •  909 comments

Tis the Season for Bashing Christian Celebration of Christmas
What, then, are we really celebrating this Christmas holiday?

Time for the holiday tradition of rehashing the history of the Christmas holiday.  We'll hear how Christmas is really about pagan celebration of the winter solstice, Yule celebrations, Egyptian and Roman gods, and how modern celebration of the Christmas holiday has nothing to do with theology.

So, the underlying message is that secular society has appropriated the Christmas holiday.  And the secular celebration of the holiday involves mass consumption, money, and meaningless symbolism.  The secular Christmas holiday has become an orgy of greed and selfishness.

We are to believe that somehow the secularization of the Christmas holiday is because the Christian religion is evil?  Naturally there's no profit in religious observation of the holiday and that's just wrong.

What, then, are we really celebrating this Christmas holiday?

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Nerm_L
PhD Principal
1  author  Nerm_L    5 months ago

Merry Christmas!

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
1.1  XXJefferson51  replied to  Nerm_L @1    5 months ago

Thanks for doing this.  I was going to seed an article on the latest tactic in the secular progressives war on Christmas, burning or otherwise sabotaging or destroying Christmas trees.  You have it covered.  

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.1.1  Tessylo  replied to  XXJefferson51 @1.1    5 months ago

The Fox tree was burned by a homeless mentally unstable man.

One instance of someone 'burning or otherwise sabotaging or destroying Christmas trees'

jrSmiley_80_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.1.2  devangelical  replied to  XXJefferson51 @1.1    5 months ago

[Deleted]

 
 
 
Nerm_L
PhD Principal
1.1.3  author  Nerm_L  replied to  Tessylo @1.1.1    5 months ago
The Fox tree was burned by a homeless mentally unstable man.

One instance of someone 'burning or otherwise sabotaging or destroying Christmas trees'

It's just a Yule tree.  

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Principal
1.1.4  MrFrost  replied to  XXJefferson51 @1.1    5 months ago
war on Christmas

This is the why there is a war on Christmas, the right wing insisting that there is one when there isn't. Many know no other thing than playing the victim. 

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Principal
1.1.5  MrFrost  replied to  Nerm_L @1.1.3    5 months ago

It's just a Yule tree.  

It was also a fake tree and coming from Fox News, is anyone surprised? 

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
1.1.6  XXJefferson51  replied to  Tessylo @1.1.1    5 months ago

It wasn’t the only tree attacked.  At 5 pm eastern time Fox News will broadcast the lighting of the new bigger and better one with even more lights.  

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.1.7  Tessylo  replied to  XXJefferson51 @1.1.6    5 months ago

Attacked?  LOL!  Then prove which other trees were 'attacked'!

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
1.1.8  XXJefferson51  replied to  MrFrost @1.1.4    5 months ago

While others exist to simply blame the victims in the war against against Christmas 

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Principal
1.1.9  MrFrost  replied to  XXJefferson51 @1.1.8    5 months ago

While others exist to simply blame the victims in the war against against Christmas 

There is no war on Christmas, never was, it was, (and is), nothing more than a fake narrative designed to create a place for people to claim victimhood. That's it, end of story. 

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
1.1.10  Kavika   replied to  MrFrost @1.1.9    5 months ago

thumb_here-we-see-the-concentration-camps-crowded-and-full-of-8940736.png

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Principal
1.1.11  Gordy327  replied to  MrFrost @1.1.9    5 months ago

It must be one of those Xmas stories. Like How the Grinch Stole Christmas. 

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.1.12  Tessylo  replied to  XXJefferson51 @1.1.6    5 months ago

265807632_282310494000532_4766082607067833549_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_rgb565=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_aid=0&_nc_ohc=1avrIkaVxPMAX_N_oWF&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=443866f84d4e93fd33d3ef69593ef86b&oe=61B834F9

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Principal
1.1.13  epistte  replied to  XXJefferson51 @1.1    5 months ago

Jesus wasn't born on December 25th. That was a declaration by the pope that moved the celebration to coincide with the traditional pagan celebration of Yule.

Julius restored Athanasius and his decision was confirmed by the Roman emperor Constantius II, even though he himself was an Arian.

During the years of his papacy, Julius built several basilicas and churches in Rome.

Although the exact date of birth of Jesus has never been known, Julius decreed 25 December to be the official date for the celebration. This was near the Roman festival of Saturnalia, held in honour of the god Saturn from 17 to 23 December. Part of the reason he chose this date may have been because he wanted to create a Christian alternative to Saturnalia.

Another reason may have been that the emperor Aurelian had declared 25 December the birthday of Sol Invictus, the sun god and patron of Roman soldiers. Julius may have thought that he could attract more converts to Christianity by allowing them to continue to hold celebrations on the same day.

Julius died in Rome on 12 April 352 and was succeeded by Pope Liberius.

He was buried initially in the catacombs on the Aurelian Way but his body was later transported for burial to Santa Maria in Trastevere, one of the churches he had ordered to be completed during his papacy.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.2  Tessylo  replied to  Nerm_L @1    5 months ago

Happy Holidays!

 
 
 
Nerm_L
PhD Principal
1.2.1  author  Nerm_L  replied to  Tessylo @1.2    5 months ago
Happy Holidays!

Happy Holidays to you, too!

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Principal
1.3  MrFrost  replied to  Nerm_L @1    5 months ago

Merry Christmas Nerm. 

 
 
 
Nerm_L
PhD Principal
1.3.1  author  Nerm_L  replied to  MrFrost @1.3    5 months ago
Merry Christmas Nerm. 

Merry Christmas!  Enjoy the holidays however you celebrate them.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
1.4  Sparty On  replied to  Nerm_L @1    5 months ago

Merry Christmas or in my native tongue, Vesel'e Vianoce

 
 
 
Nerm_L
PhD Principal
1.4.1  author  Nerm_L  replied to  Sparty On @1.4    5 months ago
Merry Christmas or in my native tongue, Vesel'e Vianoce

Merry Christmas to you, too!

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Principal
1.5  Gordy327  replied to  Nerm_L @1    5 months ago

Happy holidays

 
 
 
Nerm_L
PhD Principal
1.5.1  author  Nerm_L  replied to  Gordy327 @1.5    5 months ago
Happy holidays

Happy Holidays!  Hope the holidays are safe and happy for you and yours.

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Principal
1.5.2  Gordy327  replied to  Nerm_L @1.5.1    5 months ago

Thank you, and to you as well.

 
 
 
JaneDoe
Sophomore Silent
1.6  JaneDoe  replied to  Nerm_L @1    5 months ago

Buon Natale

 
 
 
Nerm_L
PhD Principal
1.6.1  author  Nerm_L  replied to  JaneDoe @1.6    5 months ago
Buon Natale

Buon Natale!  Have a blessed holiday.

 
 
 
cjcold
Professor Quiet
1.7  cjcold  replied to  Nerm_L @1    5 months ago

Happy Holidays.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
PhD Principal
1.7.1  author  Nerm_L  replied to  cjcold @1.7    5 months ago
Happy Holidays.

Happy Holidays to you, too.

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Principal
1.8  epistte  replied to  Nerm_L @1    5 months ago

Happy rebranded Pagan holidays to you and yours.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
PhD Principal
1.8.1  author  Nerm_L  replied to  epistte @1.8    5 months ago
Happy rebranded Pagan holidays to you and yours.

Happy Holidays!  Pagan, too.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
1.9  Split Personality  replied to  Nerm_L @1    5 months ago
Nollaig Shona

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
1.10  Split Personality  replied to  Nerm_L @1    5 months ago

Bain taitneamh as an bhféile

 
 
 
Nerm_L
PhD Principal
1.10.1  author  Nerm_L  replied to  Split Personality @1.10    5 months ago
Bain taitneamh as an bhféile

May your feast be plentiful and your cares be light.

 
 
 
squiggy
Sophomore Quiet
1.11  squiggy  replied to  Nerm_L @1    5 months ago

263692680_10166620725590151_6037514517606135505_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=0dcpie0ZsnkAX-KuMAO&_nc_ht=scontent.fwbw1-1.fna&oh=1c11b638c0b29071f0e8570cd4eb8f03&oe=61BB67DF

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
1.12  XXJefferson51  replied to  Nerm_L @1    5 months ago

[Deleted]

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
2  devangelical    5 months ago

the festival of hypocrites...

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
2.1  devangelical  replied to  devangelical @2    5 months ago

...honoring the birth day of a man whose teachings are ignored the other 364 days of the year.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
3  Tessylo    5 months ago

Yes, the 'christians' are forever put upon.  And bashed.  And repressed.

jrSmiley_80_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.1  Texan1211  replied to  Tessylo @3    5 months ago

Maybe non-Christians can stop insulting Christians to begin with.

That would be a good start!

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Principal
3.1.1  MrFrost  replied to  Texan1211 @3.1    5 months ago
Maybe non-Christians can stop insulting Christians to begin with. That would be a good start!

Maybe Christians can stop insulting Non-Christians to begin with.

That would be a good start! 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.1.2  Texan1211  replied to  MrFrost @3.1.1    5 months ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Nerm_L
PhD Principal
3.1.3  author  Nerm_L  replied to  Texan1211 @3.1.2    5 months ago
removed for context

How are non-Christians insulted by Christians?

 
 
 
Veronica
Masters Expert
3.1.4  Veronica  replied to  Nerm_L @3.1.3    5 months ago

This whole article is an insult to pagans.   By insinuating that stating what Yule is and how some the Pagan traditions were inserted into Christmas we are somehow "bashing" Christians is an insult.  Do we not have the same right as Christians to espouse our beliefs on this forum?  By stating the truth of some of the Christmas traditions is not "bashing" your Christmas.  

And HOW are non-Christians insulting Christians? By stating the truth?  What a mockery of the whole season you have made with this article.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
3.1.5  Trout Giggles  replied to  Nerm_L @3.1.3    5 months ago

Oh...please.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
3.1.6  Trout Giggles  replied to  Veronica @3.1.4    5 months ago

Call me paranoid but I think his article is a counter to my seed about the origins of Xmas

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.1.7  TᵢG  replied to  Trout Giggles @3.1.6    5 months ago

That was my first impression too.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.1.8  Texan1211  replied to  Nerm_L @3.1.3    5 months ago

You will have to ask Mr. Frost that, as it was his quote.

 
 
 
Veronica
Masters Expert
3.1.9  Veronica  replied to  Trout Giggles @3.1.6    5 months ago

That is why I responded when I usually just skip over this tripe.  I just wanted to tell him his article was an insult to Pagans that tell of their beliefs.  I guess we are supposed to remain mute until his holiday is over.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
3.1.10  Trout Giggles  replied to  TᵢG @3.1.7    5 months ago

So it's not just paranoia

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
3.1.11  Trout Giggles  replied to  Veronica @3.1.9    5 months ago

The Christians know they co-opted Pagan beliefs and traditions (well, the Church does) but they keep telling themselves they are morally superior to you because...JESUS!

 
 
 
Veronica
Masters Expert
3.1.12  Veronica  replied to  Trout Giggles @3.1.11    5 months ago
JESUS

Who was Jewish.

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Principal
3.1.13  MrFrost  replied to  Nerm_L @3.1.3    5 months ago

How are non-Christians insulted by Christians?

Obviously, "Merry Christmas" doesn't bother me in the least and I am a Deist, but, there are some people who don't care for it and feel insulted. 

Remember, freedom OF religion also means freedom FROM religion regardless of the religion in question. 

Put it another way.. How do you think an Evangelical would feel if someone said, "allah 'akbar" to them? My guess is they would be pissed off.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
3.1.14  Trout Giggles  replied to  MrFrost @3.1.13    5 months ago

Merry Christmas doesn't bother me, but I try to remember who believes in what and give my greetings accordingly

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Principal
3.1.15  MrFrost  replied to  Trout Giggles @3.1.14    5 months ago

Merry Christmas doesn't bother me, but I try to remember who believes in what and give my greetings accordingly

Exactly, same here. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.1.16  TᵢG  replied to  Trout Giggles @3.1.14    5 months ago

I wish people Merry Christmas all the time in response to them wishing same to me.   If someone wished me Happy Hanukah (or any other similar greeting), I would respond in kind without hesitation (if I recognized the holiday).

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
3.1.17  Kavika   replied to  TᵢG @3.1.16    5 months ago

So if I say to you, '' Minobii niibaa anami'e giizhigad" you will respond in kind. No copy and paste it must be vocal with the proper inflections. Just to give you a head start it's in the Ojibwe double vowel system versus the single vowel system. jrSmiley_4_smiley_image.png

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
3.1.18  Trout Giggles  replied to  Kavika @3.1.17    5 months ago

How about a "back at ya"?

 
 
 
Nerm_L
PhD Principal
3.1.19  author  Nerm_L  replied to  Veronica @3.1.4    5 months ago
This whole article is an insult to pagans.   By insinuating that stating what Yule is and how some the Pagan traditions were inserted into Christmas we are somehow "bashing" Christians is an insult.  Do we not have the same right as Christians to espouse our beliefs on this forum?  By stating the truth of some of the Christmas traditions is not "bashing" your Christmas.  

It's Christ Mass.  Not Yule.  Not pagan.  If you want to celebrate Yule, then by all means go ahead.  Christ Mass is not Hanukah, either.  That doesn't stop the celebration of Hanukah. 

But claiming that the history of Christ Mass is not Christian is a factual flight of fancy.  Yes, Christians have incorporated cultural traditions into the holiday (which includes pagan cultural traditions) but Christ Mass is most definitely Christian.

And HOW are non-Christians insulting Christians? By stating the truth?  What a mockery of the whole season you have made with this article.

The truth is there would not be Christ Mass without Christians.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.1.20  TᵢG  replied to  Kavika @3.1.17    5 months ago

Note:

TiG @3.1.16 ☞ I would respond in kind without hesitation (if I recognized the holiday).

But for you, I would give it a shot.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.1.21  TᵢG  replied to  Nerm_L @3.1.19    5 months ago
It's Christ Mass. 

 
 
 
Nerm_L
PhD Principal
3.1.22  author  Nerm_L  replied to  Trout Giggles @3.1.6    5 months ago
Call me paranoid but I think his article is a counter to my seed about the origins of Xmas

Another ticket, another blog.  I won't be silenced.

And the discussion is better, too.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
PhD Principal
3.1.23  author  Nerm_L  replied to  Texan1211 @3.1.8    5 months ago
You will have to ask Mr. Frost that, as it was his quote.

Oops, I thought I did ask Mr. Frost.  Sorry 'bout that.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
3.1.24  Kavika   replied to  Trout Giggles @3.1.18    5 months ago
How about a "back at ya"?

Nope, that isn't going to work, Trout.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
3.1.25  Tessylo  replied to  Nerm_L @3.1.22    5 months ago

Who is trying to silence you?????????????????????????????

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.1.26  Texan1211  replied to  Nerm_L @3.1.23    5 months ago

No problem!

 
 
 
Veronica
Masters Expert
3.1.27  Veronica  replied to  Nerm_L @3.1.19    5 months ago

There would also be a hell of a lot more Pagans and Pagan belief systems without Christians.  

Well then - how about you guys celebrate your day ON THAT day only instead of taking up 6 months proceeding it.  

I do celebrate Yule & Christmas.  It is not Christ Mass - it is Christmas.  Spell it right.  

The truth is that you would prefer it if we (all non-christians) would just shut the fuck up any time NEAR December.  THAT is what is insulting.  

As I stated earlier - your whole article makes a mockery of the holiday season of joy and peace on earth good will towards men (IT DOES NOT SAY CHRISTAINS).  BTW - Jesus was a Jew.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
3.1.28  Tessylo  replied to  MrFrost @3.1.1    5 months ago

I call them the small c 'christians'.  They're CINOs

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
3.1.29  Trout Giggles  replied to  Nerm_L @3.1.22    5 months ago

I didn't even read your comment. Obviously it had nothing to do with the topic or it was a comment filled with whining. Whatev. If you're going to comment on my seeds be sure it's on topic and not bashing the article or me

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
3.1.30  Trout Giggles  replied to  Kavika @3.1.24    5 months ago

Damn! You're a tough task master

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
3.1.31  Trout Giggles  replied to  Veronica @3.1.27    5 months ago
There would also be a hell of a lot more Pagans and Pagan belief systems without Christians. 

Christians forced conversion on Pagans in Europe and the Americas

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.1.32  Texan1211  replied to  Nerm_L @3.1.22    5 months ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
3.1.33  Kavika   replied to  Trout Giggles @3.1.31    5 months ago

They seem to forget, The Doctrine of Discovery and the Papal Bull, ''"Inter Caetera." 

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
3.1.34  Sparty On  replied to  TᵢG @3.1.21    5 months ago

The same could be said to the "Christmas" haters out there

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.1.35  TᵢG  replied to  Sparty On @3.1.34    5 months ago

Sure but are there really all that many Christmas 'haters'?

 
 
 
Nerm_L
PhD Principal
3.1.36  author  Nerm_L  replied to  Trout Giggles @3.1.29    5 months ago
I didn't even read your comment. Obviously it had nothing to do with the topic or it was a comment filled with whining. Whatev. If you're going to comment on my seeds be sure it's on topic and not bashing the article or me

Now you have.  The deleted comment became the blog.  See how that works?

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
3.1.37  Sparty On  replied to  TᵢG @3.1.35    5 months ago

Like many things today, not many, but that doesn't stop them from trying to drive the narrative for those who aren't.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
3.1.38  Trout Giggles  replied to  Nerm_L @3.1.36    5 months ago

So your comment was off topic and whining. I'm glad dev deleted it

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
3.1.39  Sparty On  replied to  TᵢG @3.1.35    5 months ago

There also aren't many Christmas supporters that are hating on the Christmas haters but they are still out there.  

And like their counterparts they are just as loud and just a whiny.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
3.1.40  Sparty On  replied to  Trout Giggles @3.1.38    5 months ago

Dev carpet bomb deletes anything he doesn't like which is completely counterproductive to any uncensored conversation.

Great if you want an echo chamber though.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
PhD Principal
3.1.41  author  Nerm_L  replied to  Trout Giggles @3.1.38    5 months ago
So your comment was off topic and whining. I'm glad dev deleted it

And now my comment is the topic.  But, then, you are here, too, to comment on what you didn't see.

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Principal
3.1.42  MrFrost  replied to  Nerm_L @3.1.23    5 months ago

Oops, I thought I did ask Mr. Frost.  Sorry 'bout that.

You did, and I answered your question. 

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
3.1.43  Trout Giggles  replied to  Nerm_L @3.1.41    5 months ago

Good for you. See how that works?

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
3.1.44  Trout Giggles  replied to  Sparty On @3.1.40    5 months ago

Don't complain to me.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
3.1.45  Sparty On  replied to  Trout Giggles @3.1.44    5 months ago

Not a complaint, it's a fact.   I'm glad you got to read it before it gets removed.

You know it's true.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
PhD Principal
3.1.46  author  Nerm_L  replied to  MrFrost @3.1.13    5 months ago
Obviously, "Merry Christmas" doesn't bother me in the least and I am a Deist, but, there are some people who don't care for it and feel insulted. 
Remember, freedom OF religion also means freedom FROM religion regardless of the religion in question. 

But freedom of religion and freedom from religion is not freedom to disparage religion or insult those who practice religion.

That doesn't explain how non-Christians are insulted by Christians?

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.1.47  Texan1211  replied to  Sparty On @3.1.45    5 months ago
You know it's true.

Indubitably.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.1.48  Texan1211  replied to  Sparty On @3.1.40    5 months ago
Great if you want an echo chamber though.

does create that effect when comments are deleted!

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
3.1.49  Kavika   replied to  Sparty On @3.1.40    5 months ago
Great if you want an echo chamber though.

If that is your complaint you should speak to a certain RW that does it on a regular basis.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.1.50  TᵢG  replied to  Sparty On @3.1.37    5 months ago
Like many things today, not many, …

… and thus do not really matter.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
3.1.51  Sparty On  replied to  Texan1211 @3.1.48    5 months ago

Hey, if they should go per the rules so be it but that is not what happens in some groups and why i don't like that rule.   Sure it keeps the peace more but only allows groups to censor their group so heavily they become echo chambers.  

Not my idea of a uncensored discussion forum but to each their own i guess.

My bad .... i'll stop with the meta now ....

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.1.52  Texan1211  replied to  Kavika @3.1.49    5 months ago
If that is your complaint you should speak to a certain RW that does it on a regular basis.

Did a RW delete the comment in question?
Or is this more whataboutism?

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
3.1.53  Sparty On  replied to  Kavika @3.1.49    5 months ago

I include everyone who does it but if i know who you are talking about.

It's not even close to the same thing most of the time.  

Not even close.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
3.1.54  Sparty On  replied to  TᵢG @3.1.50    5 months ago

Lol ... tell that to this seed.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
PhD Principal
3.1.55  author  Nerm_L  replied to  Veronica @3.1.27    5 months ago
There would also be a hell of a lot more Pagans and Pagan belief systems without Christians.  

Maybe so.  But there wouldn't be Christmas without Christians.  Were the pagan holidays about brotherly love and fellowship?

The truth is that you would prefer it if we (all non-christians) would just shut the fuck up any time NEAR December.  THAT is what is insulting.  

The truth is that Christians would prefer not be be disparaged anytime someone feels threatened by a plastic baby Jesus. 

As the history points out, public displays of Yule trees is based upon religious celebrations, too.  So, why aren't Yule trees banned from public facilities and public property?

As I stated earlier - your whole article makes a mockery of the holiday season of joy and peace on earth good will towards men (IT DOES NOT SAY CHRISTAINS).  BTW - Jesus was a Jew.

Yes, Jesus was a Jew.  But Jesus was also the first Christian.  That's something worth celebrating, don't you think?  Merry Christmas!

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
3.1.56  XXJefferson51  replied to  Texan1211 @3.1.32    5 months ago

You noticed it too!  

 
 
 
Veronica
Masters Expert
3.1.57  Veronica  replied to  Nerm_L @3.1.55    5 months ago

There is so much wrong with your reply.  

Yule was a celebration of the lengthening of the days.  A celebration of the sun's return and the rebirth of the the land.  It was more about survival then kinship.  Maybe read a little on something other than YOUR religion.  

Where do you see any Yule trees?  As far as I know they are all labeled CHRISTMAS trees and I would love you to show me any PUBLIC place that speaks of Yule trees.  As far as the plastic baby - I could give 2 fucks - put it wherever you want - BUT if you want to follow the Constitution you can't put it on public property because that is supported by more than Christian people.

Jesus was NOT the first Christian since Christians are the FOLLOWERS of Christ as any GOOD Christian knows.  He was a Jew when he was born and he was a Jew when he died.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
3.1.58  Trout Giggles  replied to  Sparty On @3.1.51    5 months ago

When someone comes into a seed merely to disrupt it or troll then they deserve to have their comments deleted.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
3.1.59  Trout Giggles  replied to  Nerm_L @3.1.55    5 months ago

Nerm...you really should do some more reading about your religion

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
3.1.60  Sparty On  replied to  Trout Giggles @3.1.58    5 months ago

No argument.  

Is it your contention that's all that is being done in this case?

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
3.1.61  Trout Giggles  replied to  Sparty On @3.1.60    5 months ago

Yes

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
3.1.62  Sparty On  replied to  Trout Giggles @3.1.61    5 months ago

I disagree, vociferously.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.1.63  TᵢG  replied to  Sparty On @3.1.54    5 months ago
Lol ... tell that to this seed.

The seed seems to be a lot of whining and victimization.   Anyone can complain about anything, that does not make it significant (or even true).

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Principal
3.1.64  MrFrost  replied to  Nerm_L @3.1.46    5 months ago

That doesn't explain how non-Christians are insulted by Christians?

I'll try again.. Do you think a Muslim, Buddhist or Atheist or [insert not Christian religion here] wants to hear, "Merry Christmas"?

No. 

That's how. Personally, I don't care, I say Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays all the time. If I see someone that is clearly not a Christian, I usually just say Happy Holidays in an effort to not blatantly offend someone. I may not always be 100% spot on, but I am who I am and I will never apologize for it. 

In other words, I don't try to be an offensive asshole, but I am sure I come off that way from time to time to people who do not share my religious beliefs around the holidays. Hoc est quod est

 
 
 
cjcold
Professor Quiet
3.1.65  cjcold  replied to  Nerm_L @3.1.46    5 months ago
is not freedom to disparage religion

That's what the first amendment is for.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
3.1.66  Sparty On  replied to  TᵢG @3.1.63    5 months ago

True, opinions do vary and in the end are only as meaningful one is willing to make them.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
3.1.67  devangelical  replied to  Sparty On @3.1.40    5 months ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
3.1.68  Sparty On  replied to  devangelical @3.1.67    5 months ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Nerm_L
PhD Principal
3.1.69  author  Nerm_L  replied to  Veronica @3.1.57    5 months ago
Yule was a celebration of the lengthening of the days.  A celebration of the sun's return and the rebirth of the the land.  It was more about survival then kinship.  Maybe read a little on something other than YOUR religion.

Sounds like that would be a good article or blog.  Post it and I'll read it.  There seems to be a receptive audience here that read and discuss Christmas season celebrations.

Where do you see any Yule trees?  As far as I know they are all labeled CHRISTMAS trees and I would love you to show me any PUBLIC place that speaks of Yule trees.  As far as the plastic baby - I could give 2 fucks - put it wherever you want - BUT if you want to follow the Constitution you can't put it on public property because that is supported by more than Christian people.

" The “Yule tree,”, or  Christmas tree , is a decorated tree, usually an evergreen conifer species, such as pine, fir, cedar, juniper, or spruce. The tradition has origins with ancient civilizations in the middle east, Asia, and Europe. Our modern custom flourished in Germany and spread to other European nations and North America in the 19th century. The Yule tree's brightly colored decorations and lights symbolized stellar objects, spirits of those who died, religious events and figures, and provided edible treats." 

A Christmas tree is topped with the Christmas Star (the star of Bethlehem) or an angel.  A Yule tree is not.

This is a Yule tree:

  512

This is a Christmas tree:  Notice the Christmas tree has been secularized with presents (the season to buy).  We are socially conditioned to look at the bottom of the tree before looking at the top of the tree.  But the top of the tree is why the holiday is called Christmas and not Yule.

512

Jesus was NOT the first Christian since Christians are the FOLLOWERS of Christ as any GOOD Christian knows.  He was a Jew when he was born and he was a Jew when he died.

Jesus followed the teachings of Christ.  But Jesus did not become Christ until he was killed, resurrected, and ascended.  Jesus believed in himself as Christ before he became Christ; Jesus was the first Christian.

There are several early Christians mentioned in the scriptures who were Christian before Jesus was killed.  But Jesus was the first Christian.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
3.1.70  sandy-2021492  replied to  Nerm_L @3.1.69    5 months ago
Sounds like that would be a good article or blog.  Post it and I'll read it.

Check the front page.  Her blog has been up for days.

A Christmas tree is topped with the Christmas Star (the star of Bethlehem) or an angel.  A Yule tree is not.

 Modification of the appropriation.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
PhD Principal
3.1.71  author  Nerm_L  replied to  sandy-2021492 @3.1.70    5 months ago
Check the front page.  Her blog has been up for days.

I missed it.  Thank you for pointing out Veronica's blog.  It was a good read.

 
 
 
Veronica
Masters Expert
3.1.72  Veronica  replied to  Nerm_L @3.1.69    5 months ago
Jesus followed the teachings of Christ.  But Jesus did not become Christ until he was killed, resurrected, and ascended.  Jesus believed in himself as Christ before he became Christ; Jesus was the first Christian

That is bullshit and you know it - there was NO Christ before Jesus so there was NO teachings of Christ.  Jesus followed the teachings of his Faith which was the Hebrew faith.  Your shit is getting deep.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
PhD Principal
3.1.73  author  Nerm_L  replied to  Veronica @3.1.72    5 months ago
That is bullshit and you know it - there was NO Christ before Jesus so there was NO teachings of Christ.  Jesus followed the teachings of his Faith which was the Hebrew faith.  Your shit is getting deep.

Christian is not a birthright.  Christian is not an ethnicity, race, national creed, or cultural heritage.  No one is born a Christian.  

Even Jesus had to choose to be Christian.  Jesus chose to preach and teach things that challenged Jewish authority.  Jesus could have chosen to flee Jerusalem and Jewish authority but instead chose to remain.  Jesus was offered opportunities to recant; Jesus chose not to. 

Jesus chose to be baptized.  Baptism is not a ritual cleansing of Jewish tradition or Hebrew faith.  Jesus chose to be an evangelical minister which was not part of Jewish tradition or Hebrew faith.  Jesus chose to change the meaning of the temple and synagogue.  Jesus chose to teach that faith was more important than law, prayer, ritual, or sacrificial offering.  

Before telling someone they're spewing bullshit, you better have your shit straight.  Yes, Jesus was born a Jew.  But no one is born Christian; everyone is born something else.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
3.1.74  Dulay  replied to  Nerm_L @3.1.73    5 months ago

Jesus lived and died a Jew. 

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Principal
3.1.75  Gordy327  replied to  Dulay @3.1.74    5 months ago

That means Hannakuh is a more appropriate celebration than xmas.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
3.1.76  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Dulay @3.1.74    5 months ago
"Jesus lived and died a Jew."

ABSOLUTELY

The "Last Supper" was a PASSOVER SEDER, and I don't think that's a Christian ceremony.

IMO, if Christians want to emulate Jesus, they should all convert to Judaism and pooh pooh the fables they created, like Jews returning to Israel and dying at the end of times.  I just think they're afraid of being circumcised, not just the knife, but that it will end their "manhood".  LOL

Hey Dulay, are you dreaming of being Spiderman?

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
3.1.77  Dulay  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @3.1.76    5 months ago
The "Last Supper" was a PASSOVER SEDER, and I don't think that's a Christian ceremony.

You speak the facts Buzz. 

I can't help but wonder why anyone would even try to make those claims in 3.1.73 while still insisting that their beliefs are based on scripture. 

Hey Dulay, are you dreaming of being Spiderman?

No. I am envisioning catching the ignorant in my web of facts.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
PhD Principal
3.1.78  author  Nerm_L  replied to  Dulay @3.1.74    5 months ago
Jesus lived and died a Jew. 

And?

Christian is not an ethnicity, race, national creed, or cultural heritage.  And being Christian does not require giving up traditions; those traditions are brought into Christianity by people who become Christian.  That's why the celebration of Christmas includes a diverse and inclusive mix of traditions.

How is inclusion supposed to work?  Being Christian doesn't mean people cannot bring their traditions of Passover and Hanukkah into Christian celebrations.  Becoming Christian does not require a Jew to stop being a Jew.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
3.1.79  Dulay  replied to  Nerm_L @3.1.78    5 months ago
Becoming Christian does not require a Jew to stop being a Jew.

It sure as fuck DOES Nerm. 

Being a Jew IS 'an ethnicity, race, national creed, or cultural heritage' Nerm. 

Based on the scriptures, Jesus was born, lived and died a Jew. PERIOD. Full stop. 

All of that gum flapping in your comment is pure fantasy. 

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
3.1.80  Sparty On  replied to  Dulay @3.1.79    5 months ago
Being a Jew IS 'an ethnicity, race, national creed, or cultural heritage' Nerm. 

That's nuts .... so i'm a Christian only?   Not Caucasian, not American of Slavic/English descent but just a Christian by creed?

That's just fuckin crazy progressive talk.

Nothing more.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
PhD Principal
3.1.81  author  Nerm_L  replied to  Sparty On @3.1.80    5 months ago
That's just fuckin crazy progressive talk.

No, that's liberal talk.  Exclusion is a regressive notion, not a progressive notion.  And the argument is based upon liberal exclusion; a Jew can only be a Jew.

Liberals don't seem to understand what diversity and inclusion really means.  Liberals aren't progressive.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
3.1.82  Sparty On  replied to  Nerm_L @3.1.81    5 months ago
Liberals aren't progressive.

I beg to differ but really don't feel like getting into the nuances of that argument today.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
3.1.83  sandy-2021492  replied to  Nerm_L @3.1.78    5 months ago
Becoming Christian does not require a Jew to stop being a Jew.

From a religious standpoint, yes, it does.  Judaism does not recognize Jesus as divine.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
3.1.84  Dulay  replied to  Sparty On @3.1.80    5 months ago
That's nuts .... so i'm a Christian only?   Not Caucasian, not American of Slavic/English descent but just a Christian by creed?
That's just fuckin crazy progressive talk. Nothing more.

Strawman and obtuse. 

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
3.1.85  Dulay  replied to  Nerm_L @3.1.81    5 months ago
And the argument is based upon liberal exclusion; a Jew can only be a Jew.

Obtuse. 

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
3.1.86  Dulay  replied to  sandy-2021492 @3.1.83    5 months ago
From a religious standpoint, yes, it does.

True and Nerm's whole argument is from a religious standpoint. 

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
3.1.87  Split Personality  replied to  Nerm_L @3.1.78    5 months ago
Becoming Christian does not require a Jew to stop being a Jew.

Well almost 900 comments and we have a winner.  Dumbest statement in the lot

and that's saying something since you deny Christian history and muddle your religious beliefs with 

political slurs and imaginary wars.

What a waste.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
PhD Principal
3.1.88  author  Nerm_L  replied to  Split Personality @3.1.87    5 months ago
Well almost 900 comments and we have a winner.  Dumbest statement in the lot

and that's saying something since you deny Christian history and muddle your religious beliefs with 

political slurs and imaginary wars.

What a waste.

Show me where in the Judaic Messianic prophecies that fulfillment of the prophecy will mean that Jews will no longer be Jews.

According to the Messianic prophecies the Son of God will be a Jew.  Of course Jesus was a Jew.  The Messiah cannot be anything other than a Jew.   Accepting that Jesus, a Jew, fulfills the Jewish prophecies means Jews give up being Jews?

With almost 900 comments, some are still attempting to make obtuse arguments.  And are wasting other's time with their illogical arguments.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
3.1.89  sandy-2021492  replied to  Nerm_L @3.1.88    5 months ago
With almost 900 comments, some are still attempting to make obtuse arguments.  And are wasting other's time with their illogical arguments.

Well, one still is.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
3.1.90  Split Personality  replied to  Nerm_L @3.1.88    5 months ago
Accepting that Jesus, a Jew, fulfills the Jewish prophecies means Jews give up being Jews?

Twisted nonsense because accepting Jesus is not going to happen

and is theologically incompatible with Judaism.

What Do Jews Believe About Jesus? | My Jewish Learning

Have a good holiday pilgrim.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
3.1.91  Dulay  replied to  Nerm_L @3.1.88    5 months ago
Show me where in the Judaic Messianic prophecies that fulfillment of the prophecy will mean that Jews will no longer be Jews.

Show me where anyone said it does.

BTFW, I don't the premise of your posit. What most Christians call as 'Judaic Messianic prophecies' have NOTHING to do with Judaism. 

You claimed:

Even Jesus had to choose to be Christian.

That's bullshit. 

Then you ask:

 Accepting that Jesus, a Jew, fulfills the Jewish prophecies means Jews give up being Jews?

Where the fuck did you get that from Nerm? 

While YOU have every right to accept Jesus as whatever the fuck you want to, the Jews have even more of a right to state that Jesus did NOT fulfill the biblical requirements of the Messiah. 

 
 
 
Nerm_L
PhD Principal
3.1.92  author  Nerm_L  replied to  Dulay @3.1.91    5 months ago
While YOU have every right to accept Jesus as whatever the fuck you want to, the Jews have even more of a right to state that Jesus did NOT fulfill the biblical requirements of the Messiah. 

The twelve apostles were Jews.  Mary, the mother of Jesus, was a Jew.  Joseph was a Jew.  Lazarus was a Jew.  Mary Magdalene was a Jew.

St. Peter is considered the first Pope of the Catholic Church.  St. Peter was a Jew who followed Jesus as a disciple.  The first Pope of the Catholic Church was a Jew.  Let that sink in.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
3.1.93  Dulay  replied to  Nerm_L @3.1.92    5 months ago
Let that sink in.

No need Nerm. I know the bible, I've read 4 versions, a couple multiple times. 

Oh and BTFW, your comment is non-responsive to mine. Merely blathering whatever the fuck you want doesn't count as furthering the discussion. 

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
3.1.94  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Nerm_L @3.1.78    5 months ago
"Becoming Christian does not require a Jew to stop being a Jew."

jrSmiley_10_smiley_image.gif .jrSmiley_86_smiley_image.gif .jrSmiley_88_smiley_image.gif .jrSmiley_50_smiley_image.gif

I think I'm better qualified to deny that statement than you are to say it.  If you are saying that being a Jew because one's mother was Jewish that may be a matter of ancestry only,   But you are speaking theologically, because you speak of "becoming Christian", and I can tell you that once a Jew accepts Jesus as the "saviour" or divine, or the "son of God" or the Messiah, then they are no longer of the Jewish faith.  Jews may well accept Jesus as having been a rabbi or a prophet, but only a human being.  "Jews for Jesus" are Christians, not Jews, or there could even be some who were at one time Jews among them, a cult with the purpose of converting naive or disenchanted Jews into becoming Christians.  

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
3.1.95  Split Personality  replied to  Nerm_L @3.1.92    5 months ago
St. Peter is considered the first Pope of the Catholic Church.  St. Peter was a Jew who followed Jesus as a disciple.  The first Pope of the Catholic Church was a Jew.  Let that sink in.

What trivia point do you think you are making that proves anything?

The first "pope" and the 5th were both Jews.  Who cares?

Followers of Christ were simply "of the way" for a hundred years

before Ignatius of Antioch ( a non Jewish city ) called them Christians in a letter.

The people of "the way" liked it.

Let that sink in.

Stop taking what you think you know and molding it to your weak preconceived beliefs about Judaism.

It's embarrassing to watch.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
3.1.96  Sparty On  replied to  Dulay @3.1.84    5 months ago

Nah, but opinions do vary.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
3.1.97  Dulay  replied to  Sparty On @3.1.96    5 months ago

Facts don't.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
3.1.98  Sparty On  replied to  Dulay @3.1.97    5 months ago
Facts don't.

True, so let me know when you actually have some real ones

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
3.1.99  Dulay  replied to  Sparty On @3.1.98    5 months ago

There are plenty examples right here in this seed. 

BTFW, your comment about 'the triggered' is the height of irony. 

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
3.1.100  Sparty On  replied to  Dulay @3.1.99    5 months ago

Lol, nope .... not even close but keep gaslighting .......

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
3.1.101  Dulay  replied to  Sparty On @3.1.100    5 months ago
gaslighting

Did my comment cause you distress Sparty? Questioning your perceptions, are you?

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
3.1.102  Sparty On  replied to  Dulay @3.1.101    5 months ago
Did my comment cause you distress Sparty? Questioning your perceptions, are you?

Lol ..... no and no but even farther away than before ..... this is just getting boring now ....

 
 
 
Nerm_L
PhD Principal
3.1.103  author  Nerm_L  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @3.1.94    5 months ago
I think I'm better qualified to deny that statement than you are to say it.  If you are saying that being a Jew because one's mother was Jewish that may be a matter of ancestry only,   But you are speaking theologically, because you speak of "becoming Christian", and I can tell you that once a Jew accepts Jesus as the "saviour" or divine, or the "son of God" or the Messiah, then they are no longer of the Jewish faith.  Jews may well accept Jesus as having been a rabbi or a prophet, but only a human being.  "Jews for Jesus" are Christians, not Jews, or there could even be some who were at one time Jews among them, a cult with the purpose of converting naive or disenchanted Jews into becoming Christians.  

So, what happens to Jews when the messianic prophecies are fulfilled in an acceptable manner?

Look, we know that all of the first Christians were Jews; Christianity began in Israel.  The early Christians were an apocalyptic messianic sect of Judaism.  And we can surmise that early Christianity represented a reformed Judaism that threatened the religious hierarchy and power structure of Judaism controlled by the Sadducees and Pharisees sects.  Christianity began as a strictly Jewish religion.

The name Christian and the roots of today's Christian religion can be traced to Antioch; a Greek city located in today's Turkey.  Antioch became the center of 1st century Christianity.  And in Antioch, Christians made the reformed Judaism of the apocalyptic messianic sect of Judaism an inclusive religion; a religion for gentiles as well as for Jews.  One true God for all people.  Christians liberated the God of Abraham from being exclusively a God of the Jews.

It wasn't Christians who excluded the Jews.  All the first Christians were Jews.  It was the Jews who excluded Christians.  And Christians were excluded to maintain political power and control over the Temple which was destroyed anyway.  No doubt the Jewish leaders of that time tried to blame Christians for destruction of the Temple.  Christians have been blamed for the political corruption of many monarchs and church/state bureaucracies.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
PhD Principal
3.1.104  author  Nerm_L  replied to  Split Personality @3.1.95    5 months ago
Stop taking what you think you know and molding it to your weak preconceived beliefs about Judaism.

Christianity began as a strictly Jewish religion.  Judaism in the time of Jesus had become corrupt and there was a struggle within the elite for control of the Temple which represented control over society.  Jesus led an apocalyptic messianic sect of Judaism that interpreted Judaism to reform both the religious and secular power of the Temple controlled by the elite.

Here's the concise Christianity for Dummies crib notes.  This is really the apocalyptic messianic message Jesus was preaching.

We are born sinners; we are predisposed to sin.  We must choose to do good.  Life is a struggle between good and evil.  Our death is our own personal apocalypse.  At the apocalypse, the Messiah will not judge us on our sins but will judge us on our struggle between good and evil.  Good will triumph in the struggle between good and evil.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
3.1.105  Sparty On  replied to  Nerm_L @3.1.104    5 months ago
Good will triumph in the struggle between good and evil.

Yep, i have that faith as well.   A strong faith.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
3.1.106  Dulay  replied to  Sparty On @3.1.102    5 months ago

So your claim of gaslighting was bullshit. Got ya. 

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
3.1.107  Dulay  replied to  Nerm_L @3.1.104    5 months ago
Jesus led an apocalyptic messianic sect of Judaism that interpreted Judaism to reform both the religious and secular power of the Temple controlled by the elite.

Here's the concise definitions for dummies crib notes:

Reform:

make changes in (something, typically a social, political, or economic institution or practice) in order to improve it.

Christians didn't 'improve', they created their own religion. 

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
3.1.108  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Nerm_L @3.1.103    5 months ago

Messianic prophecies???  When Jews are no longer young children they don't believe in Santa Claus or the tooth fairy either.  As for your "Messianic Jews", I already commented on your "Jews for Jesus".  Jews don't try to prevent you from believing in your fairy tales, nor do they encourage conversion to Judaism, so as far as I'm concerned you can believe the world is flat and Armageddon is coming and I really don't care and for sure you won't have any success converting me to your Christian beliefs, so give it up (or is it considered a sin to not keep trying?)

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
3.1.109  CB   replied to  Nerm_L @3.1.104    5 months ago
[T]he Messiah will not judge us on our sins but will judge us on our struggle between good and evil.

So Nerm, what is the role of faith in our Christian (salvation) narrative? Hmm?

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
3.1.110  CB   replied to  Dulay @3.1.107    5 months ago

Christianity is a new covenant (contractual agreement) borne out of the old covenant (contractual agreement) being fulfilled. That is, for believers the old covenant of works "passed away" and the new covenant of faith is instituted for two thousand plus years.

Is that a wholly "new" religion in the sense that you mean it? Not really. The foundation of Christianity is Judaism. Evenso, Jesus referred to himself in life as the "cornerstone" (of an "institution") joining two wholes as one.

Isaiah 28:16 So this is what the Sovereign Lord says: “See, I lay a stone in Zion, a tested stone, a precious cornerstone for a sure foundation; the one who relies on it will never be stricken with panic.”

Ephesians 2:2“built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone.”

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
3.1.111  CB   replied to  CB @3.1.110    5 months ago

That being so, it is also true that Christianity was founded on one man, Jesus, and all of its officials had created for them designated roles not found in the "old religion" on Judaism. For example, pope, pastors, preachers, and teachers.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
3.1.112  Sparty On  replied to  Dulay @3.1.106    5 months ago

Gaslighting your gaslighting ...... a diabolical, albeit predictable tactic.

 
 
 
al Jizzerror
Sophomore Expert
3.2  al Jizzerror  replied to  Tessylo @3    5 months ago

jrSmiley_86_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
5  TᵢG    5 months ago
We are to believe that somehow the secularization of the Christmas holiday is because the Christian religion is evil?

Where did you get this idea?   

 
 
 
Nerm_L
PhD Principal
5.1  author  Nerm_L  replied to  TᵢG @5    5 months ago
Where did you get this idea?   

Well, the yearly secular tradition is to retell every historical story that castes Christians as being evil.

Are you celebrating the holiday this year with Visa, Mastercard, or what's-in-your-wallet?

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
5.1.1  Sparty On  replied to  Nerm_L @5.1    5 months ago

To me it a haters gotta hate scenario and generally a DNE moment.   It accomplishes nothing but to piss people off most of the time.

It's a Festivas for the rest of us is fine with me.   Won't change a damn thing for me or mine.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
5.1.2  Ender  replied to  Nerm_L @5.1    5 months ago

I didn't know Rudolph and Frosty were historical stories...

So that is how we got dentistry, from an elf that wanted to work on teeth.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
5.1.3  TᵢG  replied to  Nerm_L @5.1    5 months ago

Again, where do you see this?

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
6  TᵢG    5 months ago
What, then, are we really celebrating this Christmas holiday?

Christmas means many different things.   There is no single answer that is true for everyone.   My family, for example, celebrates Christmas as a fun holiday … no so much in consideration of the proclaimed birth of Jesus but a chance to gather and have traditional fun.

 
 
 
Veronica
Masters Expert
6.1  Veronica  replied to  TᵢG @6    5 months ago

In our family we have 2 celebrations during December.  One on the winter solstice (Yule) where we eat and drink and one on Christmas where we exchange gifts, eat and drink.  My daughter attends Midnight Mass and enjoys the pageantry.  It is never a fight in our house.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
6.1.1  Trout Giggles  replied to  Veronica @6.1    5 months ago

I went to Midnight Mass once. All the vapors from the alcohol breaths made me drunk. It smelled like a gd brewery in the chapel

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
6.1.2  TᵢG  replied to  Veronica @6.1    5 months ago

Sounds right to me.   Some of my extended family go to Chrismas mass but that seems to be the extent of their religious consideration of the holiday.   Most of the time is spent preparing for and having family events.   Christmas seems more to be a celebration of family and pleasant times;  religion seems to be playing an increasingly lesser role.

 
 
 
Veronica
Masters Expert
6.1.3  Veronica  replied to  Trout Giggles @6.1.1    5 months ago

I used to enjoy Midnight Mass - of course we had already consumed the spiked eggnog... then we had kids and had to attend the "children's Mass".  That was a horror show & too goddamn crowded for my tastes.

 
 
 
Veronica
Masters Expert
6.1.4  Veronica  replied to  TᵢG @6.1.2    5 months ago
Christmas seems more to be a celebration of family and pleasant times

I agree.  

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
6.1.5  Trout Giggles  replied to  TᵢG @6.1.2    5 months ago

I have a pretty large extended family these days with my daughter marrying my friends' son. We were all a pretty big crowd before but now we're family.

Christmas Eve is not complete without one round of Monopoly

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
6.1.6  Ender  replied to  Trout Giggles @6.1.5    5 months ago

Sure, all starts with a seemingly simple game of monopoly..

Then it all breaks down. The lying, cheating, stealing that eventually leads to a table flip and broken beer bottles..

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
6.1.7  Trout Giggles  replied to  Ender @6.1.6    5 months ago

That would be Uno for us

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
6.1.8  Split Personality  replied to  Trout Giggles @6.1.7    5 months ago

I was stabbed once over Uno because we rented a house at the beach and it rained all week....

Or was it Yahtzee?

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
6.1.9  Trout Giggles  replied to  Split Personality @6.1.8    5 months ago

Stabbed?

I've been called names by my spouse and children and in turn called them names and disowned them but never stabbed them...felt like it sometimes

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Masters Principal
6.1.10  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Split Personality @6.1.8    5 months ago

Could be either one of those two in our house. Well not stabbed but quite heated at times. LOL

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
6.1.11  Split Personality  replied to  Trout Giggles @6.1.9    5 months ago

Back in the day I had decent pecs and it just stayed there for a moment, very difficult to pull out though,

after a minute it went limp and slid out. 

His spouse came over and slapped the back of his head really hard and we all laughed.

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Principal
6.1.12  MrFrost  replied to  Trout Giggles @6.1.1    5 months ago
All the vapors from the alcohol breaths made me drunk.

Pretty sure I have been to that church a time or two.. I'm positive there were a few pews behind me that were passing stinkweed around as well. 

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
6.1.13  sandy-2021492  replied to  Trout Giggles @6.1.1    5 months ago
I went to Midnight Mass once. All the vapors from the alcohol breaths made me drunk. It smelled like a gd brewery in the chapel

My church growing up didn't have midnight mass, but it did have a candlelight Christmas service the Sunday before Christmas.  Back in the 80s or 90s, when hair was huge and shellacked with hairspray, the candle/hairspray mix resulted in some minor singeing of a girl's hair.  Her hair was extinguished without any permanent damage to her, fortunately.  Quite the excitement for our sleepy little town.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
6.1.14  sandy-2021492  replied to  Trout Giggles @6.1.5    5 months ago
Monopoly

Trivial Pursuit at our house.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
6.1.15  CB   replied to  Veronica @6.1    5 months ago
Midnight Mass

So there really is such a thing? And it is not just a movie on Netflix? No, really, this is a genuine (request for knowledge) question?

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
6.1.16  CB   replied to  Split Personality @6.1.11    5 months ago

Stabbed? Pecs? Laughter? . . . Scar?  Back in the day, I dropped a switchblade into my thigh (accidentally while playing around opening it - of course) and got the scar right now to remember it!

I will be doing exhibitions of my scar (UPON REQUEST). Lines form in the back, please. . . .

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
6.1.17  Split Personality  replied to  CB @6.1.16    5 months ago

I find that after 60 years the only way scars really show up is when you go ice swimming

or whatever they call it, lol

When my hands are cold and wet they show every scar I ever got because my hands turn red where never

violated but white where scars used to exist prominently

I cannot find my hernia scar either but it has to be there.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
6.1.18  Split Personality  replied to  CB @6.1.15    5 months ago

Yes, my mother has shamed me and her grandchildren into many in PA & NJ.

It's real.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
6.1.19  CB   replied to  Split Personality @6.1.17    5 months ago

I have two hernia scars. The second one 'brand-spanking' new. Interestingly, I thought my first hernia scar was where my second one is. In other words, I thought my second surgery would be a re-patch! It is not. Lo and behold! My first scar is on the other side (of me).

It seems when a surgeon's team cuts away the 'pubes' you don't just get "naked" - you get facts like where old scars reside! (Smile.)  Yes, I can see it plain and clear (now). It's a very old scar!

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
6.1.20  Split Personality  replied to  CB @6.1.19    5 months ago

I remember not quite making it over a chain link fence cutting through veterans housing area at Rising Sun and Adams in Philly when I was 12 0r 13.

Was impaled for a minute or two before I reversed course, threw my baseball kit over the fence and made a better vault.

Played  our baseball game and went home limping.

Washed my uniform and never thought about it again.

During the hernia surgery they woke me 

demanding to know about previous groin surgeries.

They didn't believe me.

Guess I was just lucky.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
6.1.21  CB   replied to  Split Personality @6.1.20    5 months ago

Oucheeeeee!-Ooooooo-Ohhhhhhhhhhhh! I can feel the "imposition" placed on you at 12-13 and again at being awakened during surgery! Of all the nerve. What was "up" with that anesthesiologist?

That reminds me of a barium enema (?) or some other substance I drank (?) then got x-rayed and to this day no one can account for this specific bright spot on the film. I was queried about being shot ever in life? (NO. For that I would remember!)

It looks to be in a spot that would be uncomfortable for say, routine exploration looking for "determination." (Smile.)  To this day I don't have a read out about it. Wonder if it is still on me?

 
 
 
Veronica
Masters Expert
6.1.22  Veronica  replied to  CB @6.1.15    5 months ago

Yes, Midnight Mass is a thing.  Some of them can be truly beautiful.  Choirs sing beautiful hymns and the candles glow.  In the right Church it can be downright awe inspiring.  My daughter likes to attend the local Polish church.  It does more of the old fashioned Mass.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
6.1.23  CB   replied to  Veronica @6.1.22    5 months ago

Interesting. Curious, in your opinion, is the Polish "old fashioned Mass" one of the "downright awe-inspiring" services you mentioned?

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
6.1.24  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Split Personality @6.1.8    5 months ago
"I was stabbed once over Uno because we rented a house at the beach and it rained all week...."

I have a similar story.  Back in Toronto I belonged to a businessmen's organization - don't remember if it was the Kiwanis Club, but if not, then something like it, and they had a raffle at $100 a ticket and I bought in and WON.  It was for a weeklong trip to Rio de Janeiro for two, airfare and hotel.  I've never been to South America, or even Mexico, so I was so excited.  But my wife (now my ex) didn't want to go there, and I had to negotiate a trade with the travel agency to come up with the airfare and a week at a second-rate beach hotel in Miami Beach.  It was so cold all week, an unusual weather occurrence, that on the few days the sun was out we had to wear sweaters to lie on the beach. 

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
6.1.25  CB   replied to  Buzz of the Orient @6.1.24    5 months ago

HA!

Now that is so very interesting. I mean it really. I so enjoy when a commenter shares something from the 'vault' of their life. I really do!  What causes me to laughter?

Well Buzz, you started a "similar story" with an opening about stabbing. So, I launched into your account looking to see how you offended and concern about your injury! (Smile.)

Good to learn you were just chilly and not brutally assaulted!

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
6.1.26  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  CB @6.1.25    5 months ago

Well it was almost half a century ago and things were very different in America back then, so I didn't even imagine back then that I would have been assaulted.  Today I wouldn't step one foot into America even to visit my grandchildren unless I was at least wearing body armour and had some kind of spray that would stop an attacker and even then I would be paranoid.  

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
6.1.27  Split Personality  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @6.1.24    5 months ago

Similarities, crappy weather during vacation.

Being stabbed compared to wearing sweaters, not so much.

But old people like to reminisce and some are known for rather tall fish stories.

The first time my newish wife met the old gang for dinner she tested me for accuracy.

She grabs a steak knife and says OK which one of you stabbed my old man over a game of UNO?

One guy almost spit his food out, another yelled OMG! and the widow of the ne'er do well

turned to the others with a quizzical look

and in unison they all said

"It was Yahtzee! not UNO, for cryin out loud !"

Good times, Good times!

jrSmiley_68_smiley_image.png

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
6.1.28  CB   replied to  Buzz of the Orient @6.1.26    5 months ago

Well, we're not that bad - yet. Though, I can understand the hesitancy due to all the pure-d hell and swaggering occurring "live" and in on our media-platforms! :) The majority of us are still just living our 'best life' in-spite of the tragedies occurring remotely.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
6.1.29  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  CB @6.1.28    5 months ago

I know the vast majority of Americans are good people, but the problem is the size (and proliferation) of those who aren't.  I'm sure lots of Americans will blame it on the immigrants, but that isn't the real problem. 

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
6.1.30  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Split Personality @6.1.27    5 months ago

I shouldn't have used the word "similar", because of course being stabbed is a whole other story than a weather problem.  I have to admit that I mistakenly hadn't taken your comment about stabbing as being an actual physical act.

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Principal
6.2  Gordy327  replied to  TᵢG @6    5 months ago

Xmas is a means and an excuse to have and celebrate food, booze, and presents. These are a few of my favorite things jrSmiley_9_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
6.2.1  Texan1211  replied to  Gordy327 @6.2    5 months ago
Xmas is a means and an excuse to have and celebrate food, booze, and presents.

Things some people think Christmas means is revealing and astounding.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
6.2.2  Sparty On  replied to  Texan1211 @6.2.1    5 months ago

A lot of disaffected, holy than thou people out there Tex .....

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Principal
6.2.3  Gordy327  replied to  Texan1211 @6.2.1    5 months ago

Yes, and? As was pointed out, Xmas means different things to different people. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
6.2.4  Texan1211  replied to  Gordy327 @6.2.3    5 months ago
As was pointed out, Xmas means different things to different people. 

If people think Christmas is about food, booze and presents, then they should probably read a little about what Christmas actually is all about. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
6.2.5  Texan1211  replied to  Sparty On @6.2.2    5 months ago
A lot of disaffected, holy than thou people out there Tex .....

Haven't some of these folks been complaining about how Christians "stole" their "holidays", but isn't that what non-Christians who celebrate Christmas are doing?

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
6.2.6  Sparty On  replied to  Texan1211 @6.2.5    5 months ago

The denial can be strong in those ones.

Help them you can't

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Principal
6.2.7  Gordy327  replied to  Texan1211 @6.2.4    5 months ago

It's about whatever one wants it to be.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
6.2.8  Texan1211  replied to  Gordy327 @6.2.7    5 months ago
It's about whatever one wants it to be.

Sorry, but that is simply idiotic.

Sounds like something made up to support crap that can't be logically defended.

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Principal
6.2.9  Gordy327  replied to  Texan1211 @6.2.8    5 months ago

What you think means less than nothing! What Xmas means to you is likely different than what it means to me or anyone else too.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
6.2.10  Texan1211  replied to  Gordy327 @6.2.9    5 months ago

Christmas is the celebration of the birth of Christ.

It isn't even debatable.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
6.2.11  TᵢG  replied to  Texan1211 @6.2.10    5 months ago
Christmas is the celebration of the birth of Christ. It isn't even debatable.

For most people it is.   You will need to get used to the idea that this will grow less true over time.   Currently, it is absolutely NOT the case that Christmas is ONLY the celebration of the birth of Christ.   For me, it is the celebration of family.   It is, to me, a tradition with religious roots but is not a religious holiday.   And, importantly, I am far from being the only person on the planet who thinks this way.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
6.2.12  Texan1211  replied to  TᵢG @6.2.11    5 months ago
For me, it is the celebration of family.  

Then you have missed what Christmas is.

Your loss, I am sure.

Denying what Christmas IS because of what some people DO is silly. Do better.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
6.2.13  TᵢG  replied to  Texan1211 @6.2.12    5 months ago
Then you have missed what Christmas is.

No I have not missed anything.   I am quite well versed in the religious history of Christmas.   The fact that I do not believe it is not a loss.   As I see things, it is a positive enlightenment.

Denying what Christmas IS because of what some people DO is silly. Do better.

Christmas has evolved over time.   Your argument would suggest that Christmas can only be what was true at a particular point in time (say, for example, 336 AD in Rome).

That is being blind to reality.    

What Christmas is, is a function of perception.   The perception of Christmas has changed over time.   While religious at inception (i.e. ceremonial celebration of the birth of Christ) the Christmas holiday has changed substantially since the time of Constantine.   It has evolved and will continue to do so regardless of your position.

Certainly you recognize that Christmas is substantially more than simply the celebration of the birth of Christ (think 'Santa Claus' for example).   This trend will likely continue so get used to it.

 
 
 
Sunshine
Professor Guide
6.2.14  Sunshine  replied to  Texan1211 @6.2.12    5 months ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
6.2.15  sandy-2021492  replied to  Sunshine @6.2.14    5 months ago

Making Christmas about family is "fucking it up"?

That doesn't sound very Christian. On several levels.

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Principal
6.2.16  Gordy327  replied to  Texan1211 @6.2.10    5 months ago

Maybe for you. But not for me, and i imagine, not for many others too. That is the historical Christian religion claim. Many do not celebrate Xmas as the time of Jesus' birth. If you want to sing Happy Birthday Jesus, that's fine for you. I'll just party and have fun.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
6.2.17  Texan1211  replied to  TᵢG @6.2.13    5 months ago
No I have not missed anything.

I think you have, and your posts bear that out.

Do you celebrate Hannukah?

How's about Easter?

Good Friday?

Yom Kippur?

Eid Al-fitr?

Diwali?

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
6.2.18  Texan1211  replied to  Gordy327 @6.2.16    5 months ago
Maybe for you. But not for me, and i imagine, not for many others too. That is the historical Christian religion claim. Many do not celebrate Xmas as the time of Jesus' birth. If you want to sing Happy Birthday Jesus, that's fine for you. I'll just party and have fun.

Then you, like TiG, are not celebrating Christmas but merely using it as an excuse for doing whatever it is you choose to do on that day.

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Principal
6.2.19  Gordy327  replied to  Texan1211 @6.2.18    5 months ago

Uh yeah, I explicitly said I use it as an excuse to Celebrate and party. Were you paying attention? Hello? jrSmiley_123_smiley_image.gif

Doing what I want (or what anyone else wants) on Xmas is my point. That's how I view the day for me. Just as anyone else can view it for themselves however they wish. 

 
 
 
Sunshine
Professor Guide
6.2.20  Sunshine  replied to  sandy-2021492 @6.2.15    5 months ago
Making Christmas about family is "fucking it up"?

That isn't Christmas.  [deleted]

Why not call it Family Day then?  

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
6.2.21  Trout Giggles  replied to  Sunshine @6.2.20    5 months ago

What are you so pissed off about? Why can't we liberals celebrate Christmas alongside the conservatives? You are being very selfish about this whole holiday

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
6.2.22  sandy-2021492  replied to  Sunshine @6.2.20    5 months ago

You do know there are a lot of liberal Christians, yes?  I don't think they'd find much Christian love in your comment.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
6.2.23  Kavika   replied to  Sunshine @6.2.20    5 months ago
That isn't Christmas.  Liberals don't want to celebrate Christ.  They want to celebrate themselves.  Surprised you can't understand the difference....not.

An opinion but like assholes everyone has one.

Minobii niibaa anami'e giizhigad

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
6.2.24  Texan1211  replied to  Gordy327 @6.2.19    5 months ago

so you aren't truly celebrating Christmas

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Principal
6.2.25  Gordy327  replied to  Texan1211 @6.2.24    5 months ago

I'm celebrating it my way. People eat, drink, and party on Xmas. Who are you to say they or I are not?

 
 
 
Sunshine
Professor Guide
6.2.26  Sunshine  replied to  sandy-2021492 @6.2.22    5 months ago
I don't think they'd find much Christian love in your comment.

I don't think they would find any in yours.

 
 
 
Sunshine
Professor Guide
6.2.27  Sunshine  replied to  Kavika @6.2.23    5 months ago
An opinion but like assholes everyone has one.

Yep no doubt.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
6.2.28  Texan1211  replied to  Gordy327 @6.2.25    5 months ago

you aren't celebrating Christmas. you are just partying.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
6.2.29  Trout Giggles  replied to  Sunshine @6.2.26    5 months ago

Sandy is not a Christian but you claim to be

 
 
 
Sunshine
Professor Guide
6.2.30  Sunshine  replied to  Texan1211 @6.2.28    5 months ago
you aren't celebrating Christmas. you are just partying.

They don't know the difference.

 
 
 
Sunshine
Professor Guide
6.2.31  Sunshine  replied to  Trout Giggles @6.2.29    5 months ago
Sandy is not a Christian but you claim to be

Deleted

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
6.2.32  Trout Giggles  replied to  Sunshine @6.2.31    5 months ago

So....you're not a Christian? Sorry I made that assumption. I heartily apologize

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Principal
6.2.33  Gordy327  replied to  Texan1211 @6.2.28    5 months ago

Partying is how I celebrate. Celebrations often involve partying too

 
 
 
Sunshine
Professor Guide
6.2.34  Sunshine  replied to  Trout Giggles @6.2.32    5 months ago

My religion is no concern of yours.

 
 
 
Veronica
Masters Expert
6.2.35  Veronica  replied to  Sunshine @6.2.20    5 months ago

Seems someone is bashing Christians.  There are A LOT of Liberal Christians.

Go drink some eggnog & calm down.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
6.2.36  Texan1211  replied to  Sunshine @6.2.30    5 months ago

that is absolutely true.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
6.2.37  Texan1211  replied to  Gordy327 @6.2.33    5 months ago

obtuse.

 
 
 
Sunshine
Professor Guide
6.2.38  Sunshine  replied to  Veronica @6.2.35    5 months ago
There are A LOT of Liberal Christians.

According to the bashers they are all Conservative Thumpers.

Egg Nog sounds good, Cheers!

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
6.2.39  Trout Giggles  replied to  Sunshine @6.2.34    5 months ago
Making Christmas about family is "fucking it up"?
That isn't Christmas.  Liberals don't want to celebrate Christ.  They want to celebrate themselves. 

You're right that your religion (I prefer the word faith) is none of my business but you're the one that seems to be insisting that liberals have no business celebrating Xmas because they don't celebrate Christ. So you're basically telling all of us that you are a conservative Christian with your bashing of liberals celebrating Xmas.

p.s. There are many liberal Christians. I know Sandy already told you that but I think you might need a refresher

 
 
 
Veronica
Masters Expert
6.2.40  Veronica  replied to  Sunshine @6.2.38    5 months ago
According to the bashers they are all Conservative Thumpers.

Show me where.  I won't hold my breath because you are talking out your ass - maybe you have already indulged in too much eggnog.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
6.2.41  Trout Giggles  replied to  Sunshine @6.2.38    5 months ago
Making Christmas about family is "fucking it up"?
That isn't Christmas.  Liberals don't want to celebrate Christ.  They want to celebrate themselves. 

One basher. One. And I'm pretty sure he isn't lumping all Christians together. Just the real annoying ones who insist on knocking at one's door on a Saturday at 0800.

 
 
 
Veronica
Masters Expert
6.2.42  Veronica  replied to  Trout Giggles @6.2.39    5 months ago
bashing of liberals

She is bashing liberal Christians - which would make her the subject of this whole article....hmmm I wonder if that was Nerm's intention.

 
 
 
Sunshine
Professor Guide
6.2.43  Sunshine  replied to  Trout Giggles @6.2.39    5 months ago

Wow, get a grip.

I don't give a shit what you do on Christmas day.  

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
6.2.44  Trout Giggles  replied to  Veronica @6.2.42    5 months ago

I doubt it

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
6.2.45  Trout Giggles  replied to  Sunshine @6.2.43    5 months ago

Apparently you do. I shouldn't be celebrating Xmas. That's been your mantra all through here.

I think you're the one that needs to get a grip. I'm not the one on an angry tirade.

 
 
 
Sunshine
Professor Guide
6.2.46  Sunshine  replied to  Trout Giggles @6.2.45    5 months ago
I shouldn't be celebrating Xmas. That's been your mantra all through here.

Never said one word that someone shouldn't be celebrating Christmas.  But you will read what you want to read.

You have a good day Trout.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
6.2.47  Trout Giggles  replied to  Sunshine @6.2.46    5 months ago

Don't be snarky with "have a good day, Trout". You don't mean it.

And you need to go back and read all your words on what you've said about liberal Christians. The fact is you know you went over the line but now don't have the ovaries to stand behind them. Bad form

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Principal
6.2.48  Gordy327  replied to  Texan1211 @6.2.37    5 months ago

How so? Xmases involve parties, right? 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
6.2.49  Texan1211  replied to  Gordy327 @6.2.48    5 months ago

No worries, I know not everyone gets it or knows what Christmas is.

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Principal
6.2.50  Gordy327  replied to  Texan1211 @6.2.49    5 months ago

Like I said, Xmas means different things to different people.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
6.2.51  Texan1211  replied to  Gordy327 @6.2.50    5 months ago

I would love to hear what exactly you celebrate and how it relates to the birth of Christ.

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Principal
6.2.52  Gordy327  replied to  Texan1211 @6.2.51    5 months ago

Celebrate to have fun. Like I said, Xmas is a good excuse to do so. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
6.2.53  Texan1211  replied to  Gordy327 @6.2.52    5 months ago

so, nothing to do with what Christmas really is, which is what I figured all along.

thanks for the confirmation

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Principal
6.2.54  Gordy327  replied to  Texan1211 @6.2.53    5 months ago

Perhaps nothing to do with what you think your idea of Xmas is. But as I repeatedly said, Xmas means different things to different people. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
6.2.55  Texan1211  replied to  Gordy327 @6.2.54    5 months ago

no need to explain, I realize your concept of it has zero to do with actual Christmas

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Principal
6.2.56  Gordy327  replied to  Texan1211 @6.2.55    5 months ago

Xmas is essentially a big birthday party. I'm simply engaging in birthday festivities. That's good enough for me.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
6.2.57  sandy-2021492  replied to  Sunshine @6.2.26    5 months ago

To each her own.  We seem to have different ideas regarding love and kindness.

 
 
 
Sunshine
Professor Guide
6.2.58  Sunshine  replied to  sandy-2021492 @6.2.57    5 months ago

Yes we certainly do.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
6.2.59  sandy-2021492  replied to  Sunshine @6.2.58    5 months ago

I, for one, believe that Christianity is supposed to be about love.  Love of family included.  Somehow, wanting to celebrate with family is "fucking it up."

Something tells me Jesus would have liked the fact that I love my family.  I doubt he would think that fucks anything up.

 
 
 
Sunshine
Professor Guide
6.2.60  Sunshine  replied to  sandy-2021492 @6.2.59    5 months ago

As long as that religious love stays in the home or church correct? You are fine with kindness and love as long as it conforms to your approval. I doubt Jesus would approve of your strict rules and boundaries on how love and kindness is expressed.  But he still would love you.  

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
6.2.61  Ender  replied to  sandy-2021492 @6.2.59    5 months ago
Something tells me Jesus would have liked the fact that I love my family

Well, most of the time...

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
6.2.62  sandy-2021492  replied to  Sunshine @6.2.60    5 months ago
As long as that religious love stays in the home or church correct? You are fine with kindness and love as long as it conforms to your approval.

Nope.  I celebrate Christmas with my work family, and my friends.

Hell, I even wished a total stranger at Costco a Merry Christmas today after helping her find the prettier gift wrap at the back of the bin.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
6.2.63  TᵢG  replied to  Sunshine @6.2.60    5 months ago
As long as that religious love stays in the home or church correct? You are fine with kindness and love as long as it conforms to your approval.

What is the point of you making shit up like this?   Where did Sandy stipulate that love and kindness is only okay if it meets some unstated criteria?   Seems to me you are working overtime trying to find something for which to be offended and will invent a reason if one is not presented by your interlocutor.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
7  Ender    5 months ago

So there is no profit in religious celebration...

Better skip the collection plate...

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
7.1  XXJefferson51  replied to  Ender @7    5 months ago

The collection plate is to break even with expenses and promote the ministries to serve our community and the world.  We Protestants at least are non profit organizations 

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
7.1.1  Trout Giggles  replied to  XXJefferson51 @7.1    5 months ago

Tell that to Joel Osteen

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
7.1.2  Split Personality  replied to  Trout Giggles @7.1.1    5 months ago

Jeez, I heard that that $500K was only half of what they take in on a weekend

and that was 7 years ago?

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Principal
7.1.3  MrFrost  replied to  XXJefferson51 @7.1    5 months ago

The collection plate is to break even with expenses and promote the ministries to serve our community and the world.  We Protestants at least are non profit organizations 

They don't even pay taxes. 

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
7.1.4  Split Personality  replied to  MrFrost @7.1.3    5 months ago

Promoting Ministers in Mansions and their Maserati's and personal jets, as non profits.

The effing gall of it all.

smh

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
7.1.5  Texan1211  replied to  MrFrost @7.1.3    5 months ago
They don't even pay taxes.

Nor should they.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
7.1.6  Sparty On  replied to  Split Personality @7.1.4    5 months ago

As the Clinton's and Obama's laugh their asses off  at their useful idiots from their non profits, private jets, multiple mansions and luxury vacation properties

 
 
 
Nerm_L
PhD Principal
7.2  author  Nerm_L  replied to  Ender @7    5 months ago
So there is no profit in religious celebration... Better skip the collection plate...

Did you know that The Salvation Army is a Protestant Christian church?  If you drop change into a Salvation Army red kettle then you are making a donation to a Christian church.

"The Salvation Army, an international movement, is an evangelical part of the universal Christian Church. Its message is based on the Bible. Its ministry is motivated by the love of God. Its mission is to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ and to meet human needs in His name without discrimination."

 
 
 
Kathleen
Professor Principal
8  Kathleen    5 months ago

Mele Kalikimaka!

 
 
 
Nerm_L
PhD Principal
8.1  author  Nerm_L  replied to  Kathleen @8    5 months ago
Mele Kalikimaka!

I'm sorry, that's a language I do not understand.  What does that mean?

 
 
 
Kathleen
Professor Principal
8.1.1  Kathleen  replied to  Nerm_L @8.1    5 months ago

It means "Merry Christmas" in Hawaii.

I have relatives that live in Hawaii.

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Masters Principal
8.1.2  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Kathleen @8.1.1    5 months ago

 
 
 
Nerm_L
PhD Principal
8.1.4  author  Nerm_L  replied to  Kathleen @8.1.1    5 months ago
It means "Merry Christmas" in Hawaii.

Ah.  Well then, Merry Christmas to you and Mele Kalikimaka here, there, and in Hawaii, too!

 
 
 
Kathleen
Professor Principal
8.1.5  Kathleen  replied to  Nerm_L @8.1.4    5 months ago

Oh, and by the way, what a pretty Christmas tree you put on your article. I like the different color lights glowing through the snow.  

 
 
 
Nerm_L
PhD Principal
8.1.6  author  Nerm_L  replied to  Kathleen @8.1.5    5 months ago
Oh, and by the way, what a pretty Christmas tree you put on your article. I like the different color lights glowing through the snow.

Thanks!  I chose that one because I think it's a live tree.  And it looks nice.  It's not my photo; it's a stock image.

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
9  bugsy    5 months ago

Even for Dulay if she sees this...

Maligayang Pasko
 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Masters Principal
10  Just Jim NC TttH    5 months ago

The new hot gift for this year...................

 
 
 
zuksam
Junior Silent
11  zuksam    5 months ago

I just read a story about a group (the Military Religious Freedom Foundation) that's complaining about Wreaths Across America a group that lays Wreaths on Military Gravesites. I didn't know that Wreaths were particularly religious, sure they are a traditional Christmas decoration but so are snowflakes and snowmen. A Wreath is about as religious as Cornstalks tied to a fencepost, more a sign of the season than religious object. Seems nitpicky to me. Even if you see Wreaths strictly as Christmas decorations there are two versions of Christmas, one is the Religious Christian Holiday, and the other is the Secular Santa Claus version and Wreaths work with either.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
11.1  Split Personality  replied to  zuksam @11    5 months ago

It's weird isn't it. in the 70's when my Uncle, a survivor of German concentration camps would have us for Hanakah

at the end of the evening he always said he loved us but prayed for no snow during Xmas in PA.

Even the snow was tainted, lol.

Apparently the wreath was an important part of the earlier religions absorbed by Christianity.

Are wreaths a religious symbol? – TheKnowledgeBurrow.com

But I agree with the Cornstalk analogy, and we have several seasonal wreaths even heart shapes for Valentines Day

and wine themed ones with corks and grapes.

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Masters Principal
11.2  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  zuksam @11    5 months ago

Some people just need to find something, ANYTHING to be offended by. Just gotta shake your head these days.

 
 
 
cjcold
Professor Quiet
11.2.1  cjcold  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @11.2    5 months ago

[Deleted]

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
11.3  Trout Giggles  replied to  zuksam @11    5 months ago

I think this time they have gone too far. There's nothing inherently religious in an Xmas wreath. I think it's a nice gesture to honor the fallen

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
11.4  Sparty On  replied to  zuksam @11    5 months ago

I was curious about its origins so i googled it.   Interesting stuff:

That said, today this is nothing more than hater gotta hate.

Nothing more .....

 
 
 
Sunshine
Professor Guide
11.5  Sunshine  replied to  zuksam @11    5 months ago
I just read a story about a group (the Military Religious Freedom Foundation) that's complaining about Wreaths Across America a group that lays Wreaths on Military Gravesites.

Someday all gestures of kindness and gratitude will be condemned to not offend anyone about anything.  I feel for our generations to come that have to live in such an ugly place.  

I guess this is what America wants now.

 
 
 
Steve Ott
Professor Quiet
12  Steve Ott    5 months ago

The story of the Christian celebration of Christmas depends very much upon the century and the particular Christian group you are talking about. Orthodox Christmas isn't until January 7th. The Puritans outlawed celebrating Christmas.

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Principal
12.1  MrFrost  replied to  Steve Ott @12    5 months ago
The Puritans outlawed celebrating Christmas.

Well those dirty rotten....

 
 
 
Hallux
Sophomore Principal
13  Hallux    5 months ago

Oh humbug, once again I'll overcook the lump of coal.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
14  Buzz of the Orient    5 months ago

Although Christmas may originally have been a time to celebrate the birth of Jesus and the recalling of kindness among all people, those were days of dreaming of a white Christmas that would actually happen, whereas these days manufacturers and retailers dream of a green Christmas and they are getting it, and not only that, but it's starting to happen environmentally as well.

 
 
 
al Jizzerror
Sophomore Expert
15  al Jizzerror    5 months ago

512

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
16  XXJefferson51    5 months ago

Fox News Media's All-American Christmas Tree rebuilt, relit at NYC headquarters following arson attack

Crowds gathered outside FOX Square for the tree-lighting ceremony

FOX News Media held a tree-lighting ceremony for its newly-rebuilt All-American Christmas Tree roughly 24 hours after it was destroyed by an arsonist.
Crowds and Christmas carolers gathered outside
 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
16.1  XXJefferson51  replied to  XXJefferson51 @16    5 months ago
Fox Square Thursday evening to witness the lighting of the All-American Christmas Tree.  

https://www.foxnews.com/media/fox-news-media-all-american-christmas-tree-returns
 
 
 
al Jizzerror
Sophomore Expert
17  al Jizzerror    5 months ago

512

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
18  sandy-2021492    5 months ago

Nobody is bashing the Christian celebration of Christmas.

They bash the myth of the "war on Christmas".

They bash the refusal of some Christians to understand and accept that theirs is not the only holiday celebrated near mid-winter, and their insistence that we "keep Christ in Christmas (which some folks don't celebrate)" and that everybody wish them a "merry Christmas" rather than a more-inclusive "happy holidays".

Every year, around Thanksgiving, I start seeing Facebook posts shared around telling me that "It's Merry Christmas, NOT Happy Holidays or Season's Greetings" from those childish and perpetually offended snowflakes who get upset about people hoping that they have happy holidays.

There's some bashing, but it's not starting with non-Christians.  Some Christians are forgetting the Golden Rule, and reaping the results of their stubborn refusal to abide by the rules they'd like to impose on others.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
18.1  Sparty On  replied to  sandy-2021492 @18    5 months ago

Your rationalizations of what is and isn't bashing are ridiculous and typical of the hypocritical left.

Pick and chose, pick and chose.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
18.1.1  sandy-2021492  replied to  Sparty On @18.1    5 months ago

How so?  Where do you see people actually bashing Christmas celebrations by Christians?  Be clear and provide real instances.  Vague claims of persecution will not suffice.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
18.1.2  Sparty On  replied to  sandy-2021492 @18.1.1    5 months ago

So, your example of Merry Christmas.   You think Christians started that disconnect?   I certainly don't.   That started when progressives started insisting that Merry Christmas should not used and Happy Holidays should be used in its place.  That is a relatively new thing.   I could care less what you call it but don't tell folks they can't use Merry Christmas and ostracize them when they do.     Thats a verbal assault on Christian beliefs .... period.

You are only fooling yourself if you think Christians started that brouhaha

I could go on but i know i'm wasting my breath with folks who are Christians haters.   People who work very hard to convince themselves they don't bash Christians regularly.

That said, in the end i could care less what people say or think about my faith.   But it is satisfying to call the hypocrisy out from time to time and watch the rationalizations really spin out of control

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
18.1.3  sandy-2021492  replied to  Sparty On @18.1.2    5 months ago

Nobody told you that you can't use "Merry Christmas."

So, you've provided vague examples of nonexistent persecution, and a little ad hom to boot.  Such an argument is neither convincing nor Christ-like.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
18.1.4  Trout Giggles  replied to  Sparty On @18.1.2    5 months ago

Sandy didn't tell anyone not to use Merry Christmas. Personally I don't care what you tell me, just don't call me late for Happy Hour

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
18.1.5  Sparty On  replied to  sandy-2021492 @18.1.3    5 months ago
Nobody told you that you can't use "Merry Christmas."

How would you know that?

The answer is you couldn't.   Suffice it to say you are simply wrong on this topic.

Dead wrong.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
18.1.6  Sparty On  replied to  Trout Giggles @18.1.4    5 months ago
Personally I don't care what you tell me, just don't call me late for Happy Hour

That .... would never happen.

Never

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
18.1.7  sandy-2021492  replied to  Sparty On @18.1.5    5 months ago

First Amendment is how.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
18.1.8  Sparty On  replied to  sandy-2021492 @18.1.7    5 months ago

Bullshit, you think that stops the triggered from bashing people who use Merry Christmas instead of Happy Holidays?

Sorry, that's just obtuse reasoning.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
18.1.9  sandy-2021492  replied to  Sparty On @18.1.8    5 months ago

You're equating "bashing on", which I have literally never heard anyone do, with "telling Christians they can't".  Because that's all you've got to bolster your false claims of persecution.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
18.1.10  devangelical  replied to  sandy-2021492 @18.1.9    5 months ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Kathleen
Professor Principal
18.1.11  Kathleen  replied to  Sparty On @18.1.2    5 months ago

I remember when I use to help out in school when we were not allowed to call it the Christmas vacation. It had to be called the Winter vacation. Not sure if they are doing that still, but the teachers and I thought it was ridiculous. 

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
18.1.12  Sparty On  replied to  sandy-2021492 @18.1.9    5 months ago

Like i said, just becasue you say you've never seen it happen, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.  

And i question the veracity of your comments here when you try to tell me that it's never happened to me when there is no way in hell you could ever know that.

[deleted] Again, i could care less what you call it but look no further than this seed for prove of peoples shitty attitude towards others who use Merry Christmas and that's just one example.

As i said, this discussion is pointless so i'll leave the last word to you

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
18.1.13  Tessylo  replied to  Kathleen @18.1.11    5 months ago

You 'weren't allowed'?  What was stopping you from calling it Christmas vacation anyway?

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
18.1.14  Sparty On  replied to  Kathleen @18.1.11    5 months ago
Not sure if they are doing that still,

Oh, you can bet many are still doing that, more probably today.    

No doubt about it

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Masters Principal
18.1.15  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Kathleen @18.1.11    5 months ago

Yes they still are...........at least in my wife's school system.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
18.1.16  Sparty On  replied to  Tessylo @18.1.13    5 months ago
What was stopping you from calling it Christmas vacation anyway?

I'm just spitballing here but maybe her desire and tradition to call it Merry Christmas?

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
18.1.17  sandy-2021492  replied to  Sparty On @18.1.12    5 months ago

More ad hom.  Still no substantiation for your claims.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
18.1.18  sandy-2021492  replied to  Sparty On @18.1.16    5 months ago

How in the world would her desire to call it Merry Christmas (strange name for a school break, I must say) keep her from doing so?

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
18.1.19  Sparty On  replied to  sandy-2021492 @18.1.18    5 months ago

My bad, i meant Christmas vacation .... got my posts mixed up

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
18.1.20  TᵢG  replied to  Sparty On @18.1.2    5 months ago
... folks who are Christians haters ...

This is a perfect example of what Sandy is talking about.   You gratuitously translate her comments into 'Christian hate'.   And don't play the game of 'I did not say that' because she was your target by context.

People who work very hard to convince themselves they don't bash Christians regularly.

Some people interpret lack of belief and arguments countering religious claims as 'bashing'.   That strikes me as looking for a way to be a victim.   I have yet to see Sandy make claims like "Christians are evil" or "Christians are all stupid" or "Christians are dangerous", etc. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
18.1.21  Texan1211  replied to  TᵢG @18.1.20    5 months ago
Some people interpret lack of belief and arguments countering religious claims as 'bashing'. 

And some people interpret bashing as "counter arguments".

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
18.1.22  Sparty On  replied to  TᵢG @18.1.20    5 months ago
This is a perfect example of what Sandy is talking about.   You gratuitously translate her comments into 'Christian hate'.

You can keep trying to spin it otherwise but you would be just as wrong as Sandy.   The hate on display here on NT alone towards Christianity while sometimes cleverly veiled, is clear as day to even the most casual of viewers.   The Merry Christmas issue is just one good example.   It's preposterous to intimate that Christians started that issue.   Absolutely preposterous.

   And don't play the game of 'I did not say that' because she was your target by context.

Ridiculous, I don't play games here.   I've never run from any reasonable line of questioning here ever.   Least of all yours or Sandys.  

Some people interpret lack of belief and arguments countering religious claims as 'bashing'.   That strikes me as looking for a way to be a victim.   I have yet to see Sandy make claims like "Christians are evil" or "Christians are all stupid" or "Christians are destroying the nation", etc.

I'm getting deja vu all over again.   This reminds me of the "Faith" debate where you simply denied one definition of "Faith" to make your point.    To "bash" is to strike violently or to attack physically or verbally.   I stated very clearly what has happened to me in the past.   Verbal attacks from people who don't like the phrase Merry Christmas.   Sandy tried to tell me that it hadn't happened to me, which is impossible for her to know.   Verbal assaults like that are becoming more and more regular these days towards people of faith.   That is undeniable and trying to gaslight as otherwise is simply ignorant.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
18.1.23  sandy-2021492  replied to  Sparty On @18.1.19    5 months ago

That still doesn't explain how her desire to call it a Christmas vacation would prevent her from doing so.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
18.1.24  TᵢG  replied to  sandy-2021492 @18.1.9    5 months ago

Lots of victim-hood going on here.    Personally I do not care if someone or some business advertises 'Merry Christmas' rather than go generic with 'Happy Holidays' or equivalent.   Our nation is predominantly Christian so I expect it.   But it is not Christian-bashing for people to object to a business catering to a single religion.   That is a silly overreaction.

Christian bashing would be unfairly attacking Christians in general.   I cannot imagine that many people who would do that.   Who among us does not have mostly Christian friends and family?   Would we bash aunt Mary because she is a devout Catholic??    Why?

The bashing that is done is typically in response to Christian-based claims such as the nonsense of the YECs.   If someone seeks to dumb down society with a belief that our planet is 6,000 years old, etc. they need to be bashed.   The fact that their nonsense is religious and they are Christians is irrelevant.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
18.1.25  TᵢG  replied to  Sparty On @18.1.22    5 months ago
You can keep trying to spin it ...

No, Sparty, it is YOU who are doing the spinning.   Face up to what you do on the site rather than always, consistently project onto others.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
18.1.26  sandy-2021492  replied to  Texan1211 @18.1.21    5 months ago

Nobody's bashing Christians.  Recognizing that other holidays are celebrated during winter is not bashing Christians or Christianity.

Getting offended by "Happy Holidays" or "Season's Greetings", however, is bashing religions other than Christianity.  It implies that one is wrong to use a salutation that includes Hanukkah.  That strikes me as antisemitic.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
18.1.27  TᵢG  replied to  Texan1211 @18.1.21    5 months ago
And some people interpret bashing as "counter arguments".

Apparently so.   Do you think it is appropriate to label a counter argument as bashing?

Similarly, do you think it is appropriate to label disagreement as an attack?

When people affix their own atypical meaning to common words, that screws up communication.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
18.1.28  Sparty On  replied to  sandy-2021492 @18.1.23    5 months ago

I don't know, perhaps she's just a nice person who doesn't want to rock the boat but lets turn it around to what started this whole thing.

Why don't the people who can't call it "Christmas" vacation grow a thicker skin and just let it go?

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
18.1.29  Sparty On  replied to  TᵢG @18.1.25    5 months ago

No, Sparty, it is YOU who are doing the spinning.

Lol ... no Tig. i'm not.    Not in the least but by all means.   Explain how i am spinning my own experiences.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
18.1.30  TᵢG  replied to  Sparty On @18.1.28    5 months ago
Why don't the people who can't call it "Christmas" vacation grow a thicker skin and just let it go?

Generally, I agree with you here.   But note that our nation is growing increasingly diverse in terms of religion.   Approximately 65-% of the nation identify as Christian.   Thus, logically, we need to acknowledge that Christmas is not strictly a Christian holiday or we need to recognize that there are other religions that should not be drowned out by Christianity.   And, of course, there are the irreligious who do not want the constant delivery of Christian messages and images.

Our nation continues to grow more diverse so I think the thicker skin argument runs both ways.   Christians need to lighten up too.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
18.1.31  TᵢG  replied to  Sparty On @18.1.29    5 months ago
Explain how i am spinning my own experiences.

I did not claim you are spinning your own experiences.    I claimed that you are spinning what I and others are writing.  

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
18.1.32  sandy-2021492  replied to  TᵢG @18.1.24    5 months ago

I'd say everyone who is a member of this site except maybe Buzz is surrounded by Christians most of the time, as we live in a majority Christian nation.

And I'd say most of those who are accused of bashing are probably like me - we have Christmas trees and lights up (or will soon), and probably exchange gifts and have gatherings with our families.  We eat, drink, and make merry, and reminisce on old times, and miss those who are no longer with us, and take joy from the fact that we had them in our lives for the time we did.

We just don't share the religious beliefs.  But somehow saying so is "bashing".  Somehow, knowing that Christmas trees started as Yule logs is "bashing".  Knowing that Jesus wasn't born on December 25th (but that other festivals did have that date) is "bashing".  Recognizing other religions is "bashing".

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
18.1.33  Sparty On  replied to  TᵢG @18.1.30    5 months ago
Our nation continues to grow more diverse so I think the thicker skin argument runs both ways.   Christians need to lighten up too.

As i have said numerous times here, i could care less what people call it.   My hackles go up when i'm told what i can't or shouldn't call it.

That, is the major distinction here.    In my case anyways.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
18.1.34  TᵢG  replied to  sandy-2021492 @18.1.32    5 months ago
We just don't share the religious beliefs.  But somehow saying so is "bashing".  Somehow, knowing that Christmas trees started as Yule logs is "bashing".  Knowing that Jesus wasn't born on December 25th (but that other festivals did have that date) is "bashing".  Recognizing other religions is "bashing".

Exactly!   It strikes me as over-reaction to claim victimization.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
18.1.35  TᵢG  replied to  Sparty On @18.1.33    5 months ago
My hackles go up when i'm told what i can't call it.

Well if I wished someone Merry Christmas (as I routinely do in response to the same wish) and someone objected to my response, my hackles would go up too.

Thing is, I bet you $$$$ that Sandy would respond just like you and I would.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
18.1.36  Texan1211  replied to  TᵢG @18.1.27    5 months ago
Do you think it is appropriate to label a counter argument as bashing?

Yes, whenever it IS bashing.

Similarly, do you think it is appropriate to label disagreement as anattack?

Yes, whenever it IS an attack.

When people affix their own atypical meaning to common words, that screws up communication

And whenever people try to ignore commonly accepted definitions of words, become bogged down over definitions instead of what the posts actually convey, that certainly  screws up "communication"

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
18.1.37  Trout Giggles  replied to  Sparty On @18.1.33    5 months ago
My hackles go up when i'm told what i can't or shouldn't call it.

Who has told you that you can't say Merry Christmas? Specifically...someone in your real life? someone here on NT?

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
18.1.38  sandy-2021492  replied to  TᵢG @18.1.35    5 months ago

I would, and do, and often am the first to say "Merry Christmas."

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
18.1.39  Texan1211  replied to  sandy-2021492 @18.1.26    5 months ago

(deleted)

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
18.1.40  sandy-2021492  replied to  Texan1211 @18.1.39    5 months ago

Why, exactly, are you quoting my words to me?

Be specific.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
18.1.41  Texan1211  replied to  sandy-2021492 @18.1.26    5 months ago
Nobody's bashing Christians. 

Bullshit, plain and simple.

Recognizing that other holidays are celebrated during winter is not bashing Christians or Christianity.

I see no one making the claim otherwise.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
18.1.42  Sparty On  replied to  TᵢG @18.1.31    5 months ago
I claimed that you are spinning what I and others are writing.  

Had i "specifically" accused you or anyone else here of that, the posts would already be gone.

Yeah, there are people here who regularly bash Christians.   No spin to that at all.   That's just a fact.

Not sure why you having such trouble with that.

 
 
 
Sunshine
Professor Guide
18.1.43  Sunshine  replied to  Texan1211 @18.1.41    5 months ago
Nobody's bashing Christians. 
Bullshit, plain and simple.

I suppose using derogatory terms such as "thumpers" is a kind expression. jrSmiley_80_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
18.1.44  TᵢG  replied to  Texan1211 @18.1.36    5 months ago
Yes, whenever it IS bashing.

A counter-argument is not bashing.   It might contain bashing but that goes beyond the definition of counter-argument.

In and of itself, offering a counter to an argument is not bashing.  

You effectively said that bashing is bashing.

Yes, whenever it IS an attack.

And now you do the same with disagreement.   Disagreement in and of itself is not an attack.   One must add attack language.   Thus you have stated that an attack is an attack.


Think about this Texan, one could make a supporting argument and include bashing within it.   One could also agree and weave bashing into the agreement.

Stop trying to mess with the meaning of common words.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
18.1.45  TᵢG  replied to  Texan1211 @18.1.41    5 months ago
Bullshit, plain and simple.

Good grief man, don't just chop off the context.   Here is Sandy's next (and critically important) sentence which qualifies her meaning:

Sandy @18.1.26 ☞ Recognizing that other holidays are celebrated during winter is not bashing Christians or Christianity.

Use common sense.  Obviously Sandy is not claiming that on the entire planet nobody bashes Christians.   Cherry-picking a single sentence to create a strawman is intellectually dishonest.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
18.1.46  Sparty On  replied to  Trout Giggles @18.1.37    5 months ago

Okay, over the years .... family, friends, random acquaintances, teachers, profs, smartasses online, etc, etc

Try this sometime this holiday season.   Go to a place where you usually say Happy Holidays and say Merry Christmas instead.   See what happens.   I'm not saying people will tell you not to say Merry Christmas but the uncomfortable index meter will likely start pegging ....

I for one think it is ridiculous that i have places i need to say Happy Holidays for people to be comfortable or Merry Christmas for people to be comfortable and i'm expected to know the difference.

Absolutely ridiculous in both cases

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
18.1.47  Trout Giggles  replied to  Sunshine @18.1.43    5 months ago

Some people have had horrible experiences with a specific type of Christian church and/or cult and it has colored their world view. Why don't you consider that the next time that word offends you? As a kind, caring, Christian as I know you are, I really shouldn't have to remind you

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
18.1.48  Trout Giggles  replied to  sandy-2021492 @18.1.38    5 months ago

So am I. It's a habit that I'm not ashamed of because I grew up saying it. And living in the south I don't know people of other faiths so it has really become a habit

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
18.1.49  TᵢG  replied to  Sparty On @18.1.46    5 months ago
I'm not saying people will tell you not to say Merry Christmas but the uncomfortable index meter will likely start pegging ....

I think this is something we will need to simply accept.   As the nation grows more religiously diverse we necessarily will see the dominance of Christianity wane.    Christmas, since that is our focus, will need to be viewed in more general terms (not simply a Christian holiday) or we will continue to move to more inclusive language for the population such as "Seasons Greetings" / "Happy Holidays".

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
18.1.50  Trout Giggles  replied to  Sparty On @18.1.46    5 months ago

Living here in the South, I always say Merry Christmas. Saying Happy Holidays around here is sure to start a ruckus