Presidential Debate: Joe Biden Says Antifa is 'An Idea, Not An Organization'
By: Brittany Bernstein (National Review)
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
Democratic nominee Joe Biden participates in the first 2020 presidential campaign debate in Cleveland, Ohio, September 29, 2020. (Jonathan Ernst/Reuters)
Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden defended far-left anarchist movement Antifa as "an idea, not an organization" and said white supremacists pose a greater danger to the country during the first presidential debate on Tuesday night.
The comments came after President Trump said someone should "do something" about the anti-fascist movement, saying far-left anarchists are more dangerous than white supremacists in response to a question by moderator Chris Wallace about whether the president would condemn white supremacists and militia groups.
"You have repeatedly criticized the vice president for not specifically calling out Antifa and other left-wing extremist groups, but are you willing tonight to condemn white supremacists and militia groups and to say that they need to stand down and not add to the violence in a number of these cities as we saw in Kenosha and as we've seen in Portland," Fox News' Wallace said, referencing violent rioting in a number of Democratic cities in recent months.
"Sure, I'm prepared to do that," the president said. "I would say almost everything I see is from the left-wing not from the right-wing. I'm willing to do anything. I want to see peace."
Biden and Wallace pressed the president to specifically condemn white supremacists and the far-right group the Proud Boys to which Trump said, "Proud Boys stand back and stand by, but I'll tell you what, somebody's gotta do something about Antifa and the Left because this is not a right-wing problem."
The former vice president countered in saying that Trump's "own FBI director said the threat comes from white supremacists — Antifa is an idea, not an organization, not militias, that's what his FBI director said."
The Bureau's director Chris Wray told lawmakers earlier this month that Antifa is an ideology or a movement, not an organization, but said that activists were a serious concern and that Antifa is a "real thing."
Wray said the FBI had undertaken "any number of properly predicated investigations into what we would describe as violent anarchist extremists," which included individuals who identity with Antifa.
Trump, who has said he would designate Antifa as a terror group, said the FBI director's assessment is wrong and added, "when a bat hits you over the head that's not an idea. Antifa is bad."
"Antifa is a dangerous radical group and you ought to be careful with them, they'll overthrow you," Trump concluded.
Black-bloc anarchists, many of whom identify as "anti-fascists," rioted in a number of major American cities this summer, vandalizing businesses and homes, setting fires, and clashing with law enforcement. The unrest began in June and persisted for more than 100 consecutive nights in Portland, Ore.
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What struck me as strange was Chris Wallace asking the President to condemn "right-wing violence" when:
A) The violence going on in our cities is coming from BLM and or antifa
and
B) The President had already done so, long ago.
May 29th, Oakland CA. - a drive-by shooting occurred in front of a federal courthouse in Oakland , resulting in the death of a security officer and wounding another who were contracted with the Federal Protective Service . The killer was a right wing Boogaloo boi Steven Carrillo.
May 30th - Three Boogaloo bois arrested and charged in a firebombing plot.
June 3rd - Robert Forbes, a black BLM protestor, was run over and killed by right wing neo-Nazi and 'Proud Boys' member Timothy Keith Moore.
June 6th, Santa Cruz - sheriff's deputies were shot at and also attacked with improvised explosive devices ; one officer died as a result. Killer was the same Boogaloo boi Steven Carrillo who shot and killed the security guard in Oakland.
July 25th - BLM protester Garrett Foster shot and killed by right wing Trump supporter Daniel Perry who had previously tweeted in response to a Trump tweet denigrating the BLM protests " Send Them To Texas We Will Show Them Why We Say Don't Mess With Texas ". Daniel Perry drove his car toward protesters and when confronted by Garrett Foster who was legally carrying an AR-15, Perry shot and killed Foster after his car was surrounded by protesters attempting to stop him after he drove over orange cones blocking traffic and towards the crowd of protesters. Perry claims it was self defense but witnesses say he was clearly the aggressor and was using his vehicle to incite a response from the crowd.
August 25th - Rittenhouse, shot three protesters, killing two, in Kenosha, Wisconsin, with an AR-15-type rifle on the last Tuesday of August. He was reportedly patrolling the city streets with members of the radical Boogaloo Bois militia. Rittenhouse claims he is part of a militia group and called himself a "minuteman" referring to the patriot forces that fought the British at Lexington and Concord in 1775.
"Michael German, a former FBI agent specializing in domestic terrorism and current fellow at the Brennan Center for Justice, said the materials were rife with examples of law enforcement intelligence being politicized in ways that endangered both protesters and police alike. “Terrorism is distinguished from other violence by its political nature and, as a result, counterterrorism is often highly politicized as well,” German told The Intercept. “Here we’re seeing where this politicization of counterterrorism is being reflected in intelligence documents that are going out and are intended to inform state and local law enforcement on the ground.” He added: “Overall, what you see is a strange sensationalization of the antifa threats — and that doesn’t exist when looking at the boogaloo documents.”
"The demographics of a largely white, young, and destructive group fit more with a movement known as accelerationists than Black Lives Matter.The accelerationists, if you have never heard the term, are an extreme subset of white nationalism whose goal is to bring about chaos and destruction. The basic tenet of accelerationism argues that since Western governments are inherently corrupt, the best (and only) thing supremacists can do is to accelerate the end of society by sowing chaos and aggravating political tensions. “Accelerationist ideas have been cited in mass shooters’ manifestos — explicitly, in the case of the New Zealand killer — and are frequently referenced in white supremacist web forums and chat rooms, ” Zack Beauchamp explained."
"People attending demonstrations remarked on the fact that the demographics were wrong, in places like Oakland where the majority of the destruction was perpetrated by young Caucasian men has inspired not just people on social media but reporting in the mainstream media to properly question whether this is a form of infiltration by outside extremist elements."
"A report by Vice News about right-wing infiltrators in the protests notes “hardcore ‘accelerationists’ … are encouraging their neo-Nazi followers to go to the protests and carry out acts of violence against black people. ”
"Accelerationists follow the blueprint laid out by neo-Nazi James Mason in The Siege whose writing inspires Charles Manson types of killing sprees. Mason, living in obscurity in Denver until he was brought out of retirement by Atomwaffen, a right wing Neo Nazi group. The goal of accelerationism is to burn everything down and to use violence both to target enemies and instigate an overt and extreme response from the government."
I know, you like to pull that out. Nonsense - I'll believe my own eyes!
Care to list which protests you have personally been at for "your own eyes" to see? By your own words, you must have been at every location you have ever cited for "antifa" and BLM violence.
None Ozzie.
He's no doubt getting the standard repeated Fox footage of the same three vehicles being burned over and over and over mixed with the scenes of random people in a crowd throwing things which they have no evidence of them being protestors, they can be any nut job infiltrator or anarchist as many of the arrests have proved. But that doesn't stop Fox from poisoning these folks minds with endless rhetoric and repeated video clips of anything that supports their ideological narrative. I even saw Fox recycling the photo of the "armed Black Panthers" at a voting location from 2012. Apparently it's happening SO much and frightening their white conservative viewers into pissing their pants but they can't come up with any other footage than the few pics they got back in 2012. It would be funny if it wasn't so damn serious and dangerous as right wing media foments white rage against minorities and liberals. If there is an armed insurrection of white right wing extremist pieces of filth when Biden wins in a landslide and they refuse to accept the result, the blood will be on the hands of those at Fox and all the other fascist right wing media that has been pushing this bullshit narrative about their fellow American citizens claiming they're not 'Amurican' enough. It will be just like right wing Nazi media who pushed that same bigoted narrative on the "pure Germans" and their supposed superior heritage.
"Only inferior personalities were at the helm at that time. The German people had nothing to do with their failure. If at that time I as the representative of a new political idea appeared in this hall I did so as representative of these millions of individual Germans who had not broken down like the old political parties and the old political forms. The German people for themselves had to be aided to be raised to become the guardians of their Reich! The great war had proved Germany's strength but we had to create a state of affairs under which we would be able to mobilize this strength! Nationalism and socialism had to be redefined and they had to be blended into one strong new idea to carry new strength which would make Germany great again!" - Adolf Hitler Feb 1940 - just two years before he began murdering more than 7 million innocent Jews and others deemed not "Great" or "German" enough to matter.
Trump isn't Hitler after the genocide, he's just emulating Hitler before the genocide, when some just considered him just a vocal supporter of white nationalism and white supremacists but hadn't committed any war crimes, yet. The fact that any sane American is even considering voting for such an open bigot is truly sad.
And no doubt you're getting the standard MSNBC, CNN, New York Times, Washington Post, NBC, CBS and ABC non-coverage of the riots.
the "armed Black Panthers" at a voting location from 2012.
Are you sure you don't mean the Black Panthers at the Philadelphia polling station in 2008? You know, the one that AG Eric Holder didn't want to prosecute?
Trump isn't Hitler after the genocide
Are you sure?
The fact that any sane American is even considering voting for such an open bigot is truly sad.
Biden is the bigot!
You mean the footage of the 93% of protests that have been peaceful? Perhaps Fox should show that every now and then, but no, that would ruin the right wing gestapo narrative. MSNBC, CNN and the rest DO show the violence, just not over and over all day every day as Fox has been doing. They show it in the amount it's happening, perhaps even a little more than the 7% it actually represents.
I despise child molesters and white supremacists, if that makes me a bigot so be it. Joe condemned white supremacists, if you think that makes him a bigot, fine, myself and tens of millions of fellow Americans agree with him.
There have been over 400 instances of outside/right wing/agitators/inciters disrupting majorly peaceful protests.
Over 100 instances in Wisconsin alone. ALL OUTSIDE AGITATORS.
You can also add members of QANon to those soon to be considered (I think they already are) domestic terrorists. There are many instances of them committing acts of domestic violence/terrorism.
I posted an article on them the other day but it didn't really get any traction. Everyone was focused on the debate with the current 'president' and Joe Biden.
Prove it .....................prove they were what you say
Calling Black Americans "Predators on our streets who are beyond the pale" is what defined Biden as a bigot.
[deleted]
Please stop making things up.
93% of the protests that have been peaceful..
And of all times Our American cousin was Performed, only one president was killed. Yet some people think that one performance deserves news coverage over the 99% of the showings where a president was not killed. Craziness.
lee Harvey Oswald didn’t killed someone 99.9% of the days he was alive, yet people inexplicably call him violent and focus attention on him because of one bad day.
Seriously, imagine thinking an activity that results in violence 7% of the time (assuming that is accurate) is a good thing. BLM protests being less peaceful than John Wayne Gacy isn't a selling point.
I KNEW I had seen a seed about this!!!
You were right
Marched a bit in the late 60s and early 70s at KU. Nam was the issue then.
That’s the one you were asking about. I totally missed the seed.
[DELETED]
Except he never said black Americans Vic. So how is he a bigot? How is that different from Trump using the word "thugs'? Who should we assume he was referring to?
Can you explain why you think it's relevant to compare the actions of a large group of people over months to ONE person on ONE day?
You demand a case where Joe specifically refers to Black Americans - how about the very demeaning comment that went "If you don't vote for me - you ain't black!" ?
They were joking and having a good time with an interview than ran overtime.
the comment was made in jest, if you cannot acknowledge that, the issue is yours.
Oh, it was a joke???
An liberals suddenly recognize a joke????
Can't speak for any liberals, but I can criticize grammar and recognize
humorless conservatives when they speak in error.
I'll pass.
Those words were spoken by Biden in anger not in any way as humor
Watch the film yourself, if you think there's any anger there, [DELETED]
Or when he pushed his super predators image of African American young men when pushing his crime bill.
That was a mistake on Trump's part. I knew who said it - i t was Hilary Clinton , the then First Lady, who used the term "super predator" to advocate for the 1994 crime bill that Biden co-wrote. I was very careful not to fall into the trap. I quoted what Biden did say - "Predators on our streets who are beyond the pale". We have to get it right.
I could have used:
" Unless we do something about this, my children are going to grow up in a jungle, the jungle being a racial jungle with tensions having built so high that it is going to explode at some point. We have got to make some move on this." Joe Biden
Joe Biden is correct. Anti-fa is not an organized organization.
They are an idea.
Mr. Biden is correct, as usual.
What's the idea? Anarchy, killing cops, burning down businesses, beating up innocent bystanders, turning America into a communist nation.
I gave never seen an idea with a web page or calling out to members to do something
Actually it is proud boys and boogaloo running false flag operations that are doing the burning and looting being blamed on peaceful protestors.
Typing drunk is never a good idea.
prove it...
Then I suggest you stop.
Me, I don't drink at all, so it must be just you.
Is he stupid or willfully ignorant or outright lying? Those are the only possible choices for him.
Except, Biden was quoting Trump's own FBI Director.
Except the FBI director hasn't shown us what led to his conclusion - certainly not what's been going on in our cities for 7 months!!!!
Are you at least willing to accept that multiple murders were committed by right wing extremist infiltrator Boogaloo bois in California? Or is that too much to even admit to the facts and condemn right wing killers that have been presented to you over and over again?
Of course I can admit that, but the violence we have seen in our cities for over 7 months is coming from the left.
Can you admit that?
Yet the DHS has and all it takes is a curious mind and the dedication of the time needed to READ the documented information instead of the National Review.
Again - That has nothing to do with the 7 months of violence and mayhem we have been subjected to coming from the left!
But it sure as fuck DOES document the FACT that the DHS did shown us what led to Director Wray to his conclusion.
BTW, what 'violence and mayhem' have you been subjected to from the left in the last 7 month up there in Maine?
The VAST majority of protestors have been peaceful. There have been shameful opportunists and infiltrators who are taking advantage of the large crowds of peaceful protestors to wreak havoc and push their own vile agendas, but the actual protestors have NOT been the ones inciting violence.
93% of Black Lives Matter Protests Have Been Peaceful, New Report Finds
Do I condemn the 7% that aren't? Absolutely and they should be ashamed of themselves and be arrested and held to account for any violence or vandalism they have perpetrated. Should that be allowed to taint the whole movement? Of course not, only sniveling white supremacists and right wing extremists are hoping the dip shits they're trying to fool will believe that kind of bullshit.
"While we currently lack credible threat reporting of attack plotting during the 2020 election season ..." we are still going to make hair-on-fire claims to ensure that the public is afraid.
There are loony-tune wannabe revolutionaries across the political spectrum. But just because they are there doesn't mean they are a credible threat.
The right wing NEEDS a left wing boogeyman to balance out all the racists, nationalists, skin heads, proud boys, etc. that support Trump and right wing politics.
That is why "ANTIFA" did not exist, during modern times, in any news source prior to Charlottessville.
You had me in Minnesota, now you have me in Maine - for the third time - I'm in MA (MASSACHUSETTS!)
BTW, what 'violence and mayhem' have you been subjected to
In other words if we aren't personally touched by it, we should ignore it. That's quite a perspective. Suburban women please take note!
The lack of empathy they have for others is astounding.
You mean except for the fact that they have already conspired to kill and killed people right?
You claimed that 'we have been subjected' to mayhem and violence Vic. It isn't a stretch to presume that you included yourself in that 'we'.
No one said it should be ignored Vic.
WTF do they have to do with you play the victim card?
Not a damn thing?
No and I didn't imply that they shouldn't be.
Yet only those that LIVE there can rightly claim to have been 'subjected' to it. While I can be concerned by the fires in California, I can hardly claim to be 'subjected' to in here in Indiana.
BTW, I just paid $5.50 for a LB of gourmet smoked bacon. Hope it's worth it...
I'm not sure how "gourmet" that bacon could be. Mediocre Oscar Mayer hardwood smoked bacon is approximately $8.00/lb.
Not in my area it isn't. 3.50 maybe...
Oh, OK ... lol. Maybe you should check real gourmet bacon. You can buy it online and have it shipped to you. None of the gourmet bacons are anywhere near $3.50/lb.
Enjoy!
I buy from local butchers, not that 'brand' shit Jasper. My go to guys have cured bacon for 3.50 a LB when you buy 5 LBs. I went to a specialty shop in MI today and they has smoked gourmet for 5.50 a LB and I 'splurged'. I also got some of their liver sausage.
Were I the FBI director you and yours would be way down on the "inform" list.
No worries on that one. You'd never be my FBI director.
Another thing I found strange was how Biden invoked his son who died when it was his other son - Hunter who was being criticized. Why did Wallace allow that?
Desperation, sad that someone would use the death of their son as a political tool.
He appeals for sympathy and it's obvious. Nobody was attacking Beau, the question was on Hunter.
They were talking about comments Trump made about military service, in which Beau was in the military. He was not discussing Hunter. Trump made it about Hunter and it took a lot of guts for Biden to admit publicly that his son had a drug problem.
You have it backwards. The President was zinging Hunter to get Biden rattled. Biden invoked Beau to appeal to people's emotions. Wallace let it go on.
Check back at the tape.
Perrie's right. They were talking about military service and Biden defended Beau's service then trump quickly pivoted to Hunter. He didn't rattle Biden, Biden was pissed, not rattled.
Perrie is right.
Correct...Trump was talking about Hunter and Biden wanted to defend Hunter with Beau
Exactly. Hunter was brought up first by Trump about the 3 1/2 million dollars Hunter received from a Russian. Biden did the quick distraction using his other son because he wanted to shut down any talk about Hunter and try and cover for Hunter.
Truly sad he would use his son Beau this way.
It's pathetic and decent people see it for what it is
CHRIS WALLACE: Looking at both of your records. Why should voters elect you President as opposed to president Trump, you have two minutes uninterrupted.
JOE BIDEN: Under this president, we become weaker, sicker, poor, more divided and more violent. When I was vice president, we inherited a recession. I was asked to fix it. I did. We left him a booming economy and he caused the recession. With regard to being weaker, the fact is that I've gone head to head with Putin and made it clear to him we're not going to take any of his stuff. He's Putin's puppy. He still refuses to even say anything to Putin about the bounty on the heads of American soldiers.
DONALD TRUMP: You son got three and a half million dollars.
JOE BIDEN: By the way, my son…
CHRIS WALLACE: Wait a minute. Mr. President, your campaign agreed to both sides would get two minute answers, uninterrupted. Well, you're a side agreed to it and why don't you observe what your campaign agreed to as a ground rule. Okay, sir?
JOE BIDEN: He never keeps his word.
CHRIS WALLACE: No, that was a rhetorical question.
JOE BIDEN: Can you get back 30 seconds?
CHRIS WALLACE: Yes. You may have, go ahead.
JOE BIDEN: So thirdly, we're poor. The billionaires have gotten much more wealthy by a tune of over $3- $400 billion more just since COVID. You in the home, you got less you're in more trouble than you were before. In terms of being more violent. When we were in office there were 15% less violence in America than there is today. He's President United States. It's on his watch. And with regard to more divided the nation, it can't stay divided. We can't be this way. And speaking of my son, the way you talk about the military, the way you talk about them being losers and being and just being suckers. My son was in Iraq. He spent a year there. He got the Bronze Star. He got the Conspicuous Service Medal. He was not a loser. He was a Patriot and the people left behind there were heroes.
DONALD TRUMP: Really?
JOE BIDEN: And I resent-
DONALD TRUMP: Are you talking Hunter, are you talking about Hunter.
JOE BIDEN: I'm talking about my son, Beau Biden, you're talking about Hunter?
DONALD TRUMP: I don't know Beau. I know Hunter. Hunter got thrown out of the military. He was thrown out dishonorably discharged.
JOE BIDEN: That's not true he was not dishonorably discharged.
DONALD TRUMP: For cocaine use. And he didn't have a job until you became vice president.
JOE BIDEN: None of that is true.
First of all, Trump wasnt talking about Hunter Biden and was interrupted by Biden talking about Beau. Biden was given the two minutes to give his pov on why he should be president and Trump interrupted him with a comment about Hunter Biden.
When Biden was able to reclaim his time he wanted to talk about Trump disrespecting American troops by calling them losers. He used his own son Beau as an example of a disrespected soldier.
It was all Biden's time. Trump wasnt even supposed to be talking during those two minutes.
DONALD TRUMP: You son got three and a half million dollars.
Yup there it is - that was the topic!
Vic, I know you are not THAT clueless, so come to.
The two minutes were Biden's two minutes, the topic was what Biden said the topic for those two minutes was, not what Trump interrupted with.
There is nothing else to say about it. If Trump brought up Hunter Biden during his own two minutes you would have an argument.
You are right it happened during Biden's two minutes. Trump injected Hunter, but Biden clearly pretended that Trump insulted his decent, late son, which was fooled nobody!
Yawn.
It is understandable though that you would try to find some way to distract from Trump's catastrophic debate performance.
It's not like it was a family secret.
Now there is a thread/article that the 'president' being an asshole was planned. That the 'president' doesn't play by the rules.
He's always an/been an asshole so what's new?
Trump made it very clear he was talking about Hunter's income received from Russia, China, etc. Wallace allowed Joe to deflect to his dead son. Instead of keeping the facts straight, Wallace allowed "feelings" and "sympathy" to blur hard facts. Typical Joe, collusive Wallace.
That's one of the main complaints with Wallace.
I'm sorry but you are completely wrong. It wasnt Trump's time to dictate the topic. It was Biden's two minutes and he could make it about any damn thing he wanted.
Trump interrupted Biden's time to make a comment about Hunter Biden. End of story. Better luck next time.
But one doesn't defend Hunter by using Beau. Didn't you know that the Trump campaign was going to try and put Hunter into the debate at some point? Biden is the great under reported story!
Why would Joe Biden bring up Hunter Biden during his own time he wants to use to criticize Trump? This is such a non issue it's funny.
I can’t think of any time a father would want to bring up his piece of shit scumbag son.
That's why the 'president' didn't bring up his piece of shit scumbag son(s).
Who does Biden think is behind the rioting across the nation?
Wallace obviously did not press Biden enough for any of his answers.
There is a question that should have been asked. An entire segment on "Law & Order" and Biden gets off with ignoring the problem.
Wallace obviously did not press Biden enough for any of his answers.
I was very disappointed in Wallace last night,
I wasn't. Wallace is a registered Democrat, and he made it clear last night that Trump was debating two Democrats.
Nothing compares to the disappointment I felt for the President....
The nature of that debate was disappointing, but Biden & Wallace played their part in it.
Biden called the President a "clown" and a "racist." He tried to go toe to toe with the President, I assume to demonstrate the strength, which he lacks.
Wallace was correct to restrain the President from talking over Biden, but he repeatedly left Biden many outs.
The most egregious thing Wallace did was allowing Biden to not answer whether he would pack the Court!
I'm surprised Wallace and Biden ever got a word in edgewise with the white supremacist in chief talking over everyone for the best part of 90 minutes.
Wallace is known to be impartial with interviews, always has been.
Oh, OK. If you say so!
Biden will answer whether he will pack the court right after Amy Barrett says under oath whether she will vote on the SC to overturn women's abortion rights.
That’s not how it works as we know. No judicial appointee is going to pre ordain a position on a given issue. It would not be professional of her to do so.
Barrett should tell anyone asking how she will decide a case to @#$% off.
Or maybe just invoke the Ginsburg Rule and watch Democrats have an apoplectic fit!
Biden can't answer that question. He was asked the very same question last week during an interview with a Wisconsin television station and he refused then as well. Harris has refused to answer it. It is a Sofie's Choice issue for Biden:
If he reiterates his past opposition to packing the court, he alienates and angers the far left of the democratic party which is agitating for it. If he reverses his past position and says he now supports the scheme, he again demonstrates how easily he can be bullied by the left. If he concedes and agrees to such a radical plan, the voters will recognize it for what it is: A scheme to turn the Supreme Court into a partisan institution, inviting every successive administration to add more justices in an ever-expanding, and thoroughly politicized court. The Court would then be nothing more than a rubber stamp for which ever party was in control.
The Trump campaign needs to keep hitting him with the question.
and keep hitting him with it until he answers
Biden must not have formed an opinion on it, er, sorry, GIVEN his opinion on that yet.
Didn't seem like a very hard question to me to warrant tap dancing around it and avoiding it.
It's political poison. 70% of voters are against packing the Court.
I would keep at it until he answered.
every day he doesn't answer will convince some folks that he intends to pack the court.
The current 'president' and him inciting the right wing infiltrators/inciters/killers like Kyle Rittenhouse .
How is Biden responsible?
Didn't you hear, Biden is running for President? He is not the current 'president' and not responsible for what is happening now.
OH, so you're saying the riots happening now are Trump's fault, got it. Was Obama responsible for the riots in Ferguson, MO, and across the nation after the shooting of Michael Brown? He was the president.
oh, heck no. you KNOW that is a strictly one way street
Considering 93% of the protests have been peaceful, and we have arrested numerous right wing infiltrators after they murdered security guards and cops perhaps, as the FBI has concluded, the greatest domestic terror threat is in fact right wing extremists.
Far-Right Infiltrators and Agitators in George Floyd Protests: Indicators of White Supremacists
do you believe that ONLY white people associated with white supremacy groups are doing all the rioting, arson, and looting?
I think he actually does.
Delete
If you believe that then you haven't been listening very well. The facts show 93% of the protests have been peaceful so the OVERWHELMING majority have been peaceful. There are some who, either from anger at how they feel they've been treated, or greed or opportunity, have looted and vandalized stores and buildings. Many of those committing violence and vandalism have been caught and arrested and many of them have turned out to be right wing infiltrators. I recall after the Oakland shooting many here proclaiming it was "leftists" who shot those guards killing one. Of course later we find out it was a right wing Boogaloo boi who committed that murder, but I didn't hear a peep out of any on the right here condemning it or apologizing for assuming it was some "leftist" as they had desperately hoped.
So while I accept some are angry minorities lashing out at the systemic injustice and while I can have empathy for their frustration, they should not use violence and vandalism to get justice because it makes them just as bad as a bad cop abusing his power like the one who killed George Floyd. But to completely ignore the right wing infiltrators as many on the right here seem desperate to do is just ignorant and shows they are just protecting them because they harbor many of the same feelings as those pieces of filth who want to start a civil war. They don't feel threatened by right wing extremists because they aren't the targets of their hate and violence, but the fact that they are incapable of empathizing with those who are is just shameful and shows them for the small minded bigots they are.
So no, I don't think it's ONLY white supremacists causing the destruction, but there are many of them mixed in there intentionally fomenting further violence and without acknowledging that and condemning it then one is merely a silent accessory to their crimes. I have in almost every post on this subject condemned all those committing acts of violence and vandalism or looting, they should be arrested and held to account for their crimes regardless of what side of the political divide they fall on. It's sad that the right wing crowd here refuse to do the same by continuing to deflect and defend right wing extremists that we KNOW are part of the violence and destruction.
Imagine thinking that's positive, even if it was true.
any of those committing violence and vandalism have been caught and arrested and many of them have turned out to be right wing infiltrators
Why don't you try proving that again? This time, leave out the acts that occurred before the protests and leave out the crimes committed by left wing activists who you falsely claim were "right wing."
That'll be a very short list.
Why can't you simply accept the left is behind an overwhelming amount of the violence that has rocked this country since the BLM riots started?
Yes. Proud boys and boogaloo have been responsible for rioting and destruction.
Which now includes QANon. Far-right infiltrators and agitators also endorsed by the 'president'
And so have BLM and Antifa.
Before commenting on my listening skills, please brush up on your reading skills.
I asked a QUESTION.
true, as have Antifa and BLM.
Biden was repeating the FBI director. He did not affirm or deny any personal agreement with antifa, but rather repeated the thoughts of the FBI.
Joe Biden is an establishment politician. The idea that he approves of antifa is absurd.
Yep..........because he, and several of his like minded, don't give a shit. They are doing the work at tearing down the US as we know it into what the virtue signaling baizuos want.......because Trump. Sad shit.
The Director was not referring to the riots when he made that controversial statement. What did that have to do with the riots? Why didn't Wallace straighten it out?
The idea that he approves of antifa is absurd.
I'm sure he doesn't, but he is well aware of his base - thus he covered for antifa. Biden's best line last night was "I am the democratic party", unfortunately it wasn't true and he knows it!
Vic, since you won't come on my article about it, what happened to the idea that Biden was going to show he is mentally incompetent and can't speak without a teleprompter and would demonstrate senility or dementia. Haven't you been predicting that for months? What happened?
Trump made the big gaffe when he said the Proud Boys should "stand by". I guess he's senile now, eh?
How is that a cover for Antifa? Maybe he didn't express it well, but they are not an organized group with a central power. On the other hand, the Proud Boys are and that is who Trump gave a shout out to. And why couldn't Trump condemn right-wing extremists? That speaks volumes to me. Talk about understanding your base.
Of all the topics that I would think Trump supporters would have avoided it is this one. That had to be one of the lowest moments in American history.
I saw the article, John. What was it you wanted me to do? I am in a new private group that watched the debate live last night. Do you want to know what my final comment was? Here: "Biden, exhausted, made it under the wire." So yes, John, he was able to get through the debate without showing the dementia we have seen from him in other events. Is that the achievement you are so proud of today?
Trump made the big gaffe when he said the Proud Boys should "stand by".
Another twist on what he said - "Stand back & stand by" His way of trying to diffuse the violence and answer Wallace & Biden asking for statements at the same time.. I still don't understand why Wallace went along with introducing "right wing" extremists into what is a left wing problem.
Proud Boys celebrate Trump’s debate comment. ‘Stand back. Stand by’ apparel on sale
Biden - "This is not about my family or your family. This is about American Families"...
I cannot believe Trump wants to talk about any allegations of corruption by Biden's son when his sons and his daughter are barred for life from ever administering a charity ever again because they are guilty of plundering the charities they founded. What about all that?
Utter nonsense.
Typically, Republican propaganda revolves around trying to make an opponents' strength their weakness, e.g. the Swift Boat lie, and elevating their own candidate's weakness into a positive: "Trump is a successful business man", which, of course, he is not.
Refusing to acknowledge their existence? I'd say that's a huge cover and a play to his base which is to the far left of Biden.
Maybe he didn't express it well
Why is it that only Biden gets the pardon for not expressing himself well?
but they are not an organized group with a central power.
Thank you Perrie
And why couldn't Trump condemn right-wing extremists?
He has (17 times to be precise):
Let me ask you Perrie - Why is it that when BLM & antifa have rioted & burned American cities for 7 months that the President must condemn "right wing violence?"
That had to be one of the lowest moments in American history.
No Perrie, I believe the democratic party has captured all of those moments.
Guilt by association.
A game played by one and all:
I wasn't surprised by Trump's obfuscation. What I found the most telling about that is that Trump asked Wallace 'Who would you like me to condemn?"
Was Trump so unprepared for that question that he needed Wallace to give him a prompt?
Did Trump revert to his Apprentice days and call out to be given a line from the script?
Trump makes dozens of statements every day. Over five years as a candidate and president he has made tens of thousands of comments. It doesnt mean much that he has said something negative about white supremacy WHEN PROMPTED. He has never done it of his own volition.
Couldn't agree more Vic. Guilt by association.
First the media wanted to hear him say it, then they claimed that it wasn't strong enough, now it's that he didn't just do it automatically (without reason).
When it comes to Trump - the goal posts keep moving. Meanwhile the left has waged nothing short of an insurrection in big blue democrat cities!
This is what some love
Who's that with Bill Ayers?
Had enough?
I guess you consider personal public presidential behavior to be meaningless, because I think you would be hard pressed to find worse personal public behavior by a president, ever.
Perrie is right, Trump's behavior in a presidential debate last night is a low point in American history.
The goal posts havent moved. He has been criticized for never denouncing white supremacy unless prompted to by reporters or interviewers for years.
They are not an organized group. They have no organization. They are a group of a loosely associated groups of Marxists.
Because he did actually answer the question. Trump didn't.
Then it should have been easy for him to say that when asked, but he didn't.
Because we all know that both parties were there, but the right is in denial about that, while the left has said they know Antifa was there. How do you explain the shout out to the Proud Boys? Come on Vic, that was gross.
You know, if I was a partisan, I might have been upset by that comment, but I am not. I am amused. Because both parties have garbage in them, but different kinds of garbage. I think that the Republicans have captured many a moment, and the shout out to the Proud Boys was disgusting. I would have liked to have heard Biden make a stronger statement about Antifa, but he didn't give shout out to any Marixist group either.
Can you even be any more hyperbolic?
That is rich coming from you! Disprove It...
Both groups have been there.
How is Joe protecting them? What did he say? I'm sorry. I missed the shout out to them. I did hear Trump's to the Proud boys.
And Antifa.com is a redirect that anyone can purchase. It has been debunked too. Please try again.
antifa.org
Suz,
Tell me what you think is our lowest point. I mean that was watched by over 140 nations. What do you think they thought when they heard that?
Obama is not running for office.
Had enough Vic? There are a lot more pictures of these 2.
Bullshit John........................
Wow, talk about truncating a quote.
How so? Please be specific.......if you can
WTF do you think that picture proves Vic? Please be specific.
Easily done from YOUR link:
So as everyone can see, you grabbed your quote out of the middle of a sentence in the middle of a paragraph that said a hell of a lot more.
Oh and BTFW, that quote WAS prompted from a question by a reporter. So it's a FAIL on more than one front...
BFD? FYI I pulled it from where it was in a highlighted section IN the article
You asked 'how so?" right Jim?
Be careful what you ask for, you many get it.
Which I quoted in it's entirety instead of truncated and out of context.
Cheers.
even when the words are right in front of their faces. some will simply pretend they never existed or pretend they mean something else.
Perrie didnt say this was the lowest moment in American history, she said it was one of the lowest. How many lowest are there? It depends on what criteria is being used.
You seem to think that a US president making a complete fool out of himself in an extremely high profile setting is nothing.
It's not nothing. It is a very big deal.
The low point in American history was the entire debate. The whole world must be laughing its ass off at the fact we couldn't come up with a single candidate worthy of being President in this and the 2016 election.
I agree that the debate was an embarrassment to America and the world, and I would have to agree that it's pretty sad that this is the best that America has to offer. We once had greatness and now it's down to sloppy seconds.
Voting for President should never have been who is less bad.
That does it. I am definitely not voting Clinton!
LMAO!
Hiya Suz,
I'm not losing sleep over what other countries think either. I think that looked like a horror show. But you are right that there are other events in our history that were far worse than a debate. No doubt about that.
That all being said, we are supposed to be the leader of the free world, and that is what I meant by my comment. We can not lead if we look really stupid and that leaves a hole for preditor countries like Russia, China, N Korea and Iran.
LOL... I'm working my way there.
No Clinton running for office....
John was most proud of Biden for making it through the debate without falling asleep and kept from shitting and pissing in his pants (he probably had a colostomy bag and a catheter) That's a pretty low bar John set in declaring Biden the winner of the debate
I suppose we should be giving him rave reviews.
BTW I replayed the debate tape and I noticed that on the very first round both candidates spoke for their two minutes without interruption. On the second round it was Biden who interrupted Trump. I suppose that It's because of Trump's overwhelming reaction that nobody noticed.
I think having a president who has lied 20,000 times WHILE IN OFFICE is a big deal, I'm assuming you dont.
I NEVER have to wonder if I am on the right side of questions like that. It makes doing this stuff very easy.
You are 100% correct in regards to who became 'president' in 2016 and who is running to be 'president' again.
What's with your off topic nonsense? Why doesn't Vic delete it?
I'm sure the 'president' is always leaning forward because his diaper is full of shit.
With a two party system that is what you get- voting for the least bad Establishment candidate that will always sell us out.
It was getting to the point that establishment Republicans were the weakest candidates. We always ended up nominating one. I think that mold has been broken.
"Stand back and stand by"
By tomorrow, Trump will claim he was just being sarcastic.
A good many city dwellers are worried about their personal safety, not how the President phrased something.
Armed neo-fascist militias like the Proud Boys and the Three Percenters occupying the streets are indeed rightfully of concern not only to city dwellers but to all decent citizens.
The discussion is about the BLM & antifa riots of 2020. Not your outright spin!
Yes my concern is without their help this will continue. We know the government has failed to protect our communities.
The only spin is your comment.
Sen. Tim Scott (R., South Carolina) just called on Trump to retract and withdraw his Stand Back and Stand By instructions. He must be a real spinner.
Yes the current 'president' has failed to protect our communities.
He's encourage/incited outside agitators/right wing/inciters/killers such as Kyle Rittenhouse.
Help from the fascist militias?
hey, is that the same incident that so many were blaming on a Trump supporter?
I’m not really sure but I wouldn’t be surprised. Some do seem to think that only Trump supporters are violent and the other side is just peaceful.
That's the one the New York Times refused to acknowledge that the attempted murder was of Trump supporters.
A BLM "Organizer."
wasn't there an article seeded here about it, and didn't a few posters blame Trump supporters?
I missed it if there was - an important item.
I live in one of the biggest cities in the country. I go out almost every day, and I am never worried about my personal safety.
That's great to hear. Many residents of the inner city are afraid to venture out at all.
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[deleted]
Sounds about right.
I am not of the age group that would be participating in riots for any reason, BLM or Proud Boys, if you must know.
I go out after sunset all the time.
Now show us how many instances of the 'president's' supporters running over and running down protesters?
Heather Heyer comes to mind. She died because of someone who supports this 'president'.
[deleted]
Yes and a good many of them are worried about their personal safety because of the Proud Boys, the militias and white supremacist brethren.
No, they are worried about the very people they have to live with. All they have is the police.
Well, that would be off topic in this seed and I certainly don’t take orders from you. Besides, didn’t you do a seed about that? Never mind, I forgot you took it down because it wasn’t factual. Have a pleasant evening and an even better tomorrow. 😁
Be back in a few
Duty calls
The first presidential debate between President Donald Trump and Democratic nominee Joe Biden averaged 68.1 million viewers across eight broadcast and cable networks, with Fox News leading the way by attracting 17.8 million Americans.
ABC finished a distant second, but led the broadcast networks with an average audience of 12.6 million viewers. NBC (9.6 million) came in third while CNN (8.3 million) placed fourth and MSNBC rounded out the top five with an average of 7.2 million viewers.
CBS coverage drew an average of 6.4 million viewers, Fox broadcast averaged 5.4 million and Fox Business Network averaged 758,000. The eight networks combined for 65.4 million viewers during the debate, which aired from 9:03-10:39 p.m. ET.
The debate, which was moderated by "Fox News Sunday" host Chris Wallace, was the highest-rated in cable news history and Fox News averaged a whopping 5.1 million viewers among the key demographic of adults age 25-54.
In a memo to staffers Wednesday, Fox News Media CEO Suzanne Scott and President Jay Wallace praised Wallace and his colleagues.
“We’d like to take a moment to thank and congratulate Chris Wallace for moderating last night’s extraordinary debate. We are extremely proud of his professionalism, skill and fortitude in a unique situation while doing everything possible to hold both candidates accountable. No moderator could have managed a debate of that magnitude better than Chris,” Scott and Wallace wrote.
“Equally impressive was the flawless execution of our debate coverage across all FOX News Media platforms along with our network pool responsibilities. Bret [Baier], Martha [MacCallum], Tucker [Carlson], Sean [Hannity], Laura [Ingraham] and Shannon [Bream] led our pre and post-debate programs with the most informative, insightful and compelling coverage on television,” Scott and Wallace continued. “Our talented field operations, production and security teams made all of this possible. There are too many individuals to single out and the list is long of the staff who did outstanding work in challenging circumstances.”
The first presidential debate between Trump and Hillary Clinton on Sept. 26, 2016 was the most-watched debate ever, averaging 77 million total viewers between Fox News, CNN, MSNBC, FBN, CNBC, ABC, CBS, NBC and FOX (CNBC did not air Tuesday night's debate).
Fox News Channel's massive audience for the Trump-Biden debate nearly surpassed NBC’s record for the most debate viewers on a single network. The Peacock Network drew an average of 18.2 million viewers during the first Trump-Clinton clash four years ago.
“Additionally, there were 9.7 million total video streams of the debate across FOX News Digital properties, as well as on Facebook and YouTube, up an astounding 300 percent compared to 2016," Scott and Wallace wrote. "This exceptional performance on both linear and digital is a testament to everyone’s incredible talent and hard work. Thank you to all involved for continuing to make FOX News Media the most powerful news organization in the country.”
All ratings data courtesy of Nielsen Media Research.
https://www.foxnews.com/media/presidential-debate-ratings-fox-news-channel
So, between Fox News, Fox Business, Fox Network, Fox News streaming services, 33 million watched the debate on a Fox platform.
"Be back in a few
Duty calls"
Who is that? [irrelevant and trolling .]
Stock photo...
First, Biden did not "defend" Antifa - he "defined" it . Big difference, since correctly defining Antifa gives us guidance as to how to counter it.
This link might explain that statement.
It includes the FBI statement and this one from a Rutgers Un Prof.
This definition is important since it defines how the FBI would deal with Antifa. They can't raid their headquarters and arrest the leaders. It's composed of decentralized cells. who apparently are quite paranoid about infiltration.
Al Qaeda and ISIS, on the other hand, have organizational structure that can be attacked - they are organizations. A well placed missile can disrupt them for months.
So they're splinter cells?
I think you misspelled sphincter, neighbor.
Posted by the Proud Boys on social media shortly after the debate ended.
Is that on a black shirt or a brown shirt?
Looks black.
Do you really follow the Proud Boys on Twitter?