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Text Of U.S. - North Korea Agreement

  

Category:  News & Politics

Via:  johnrussell  •  8 years ago  •  206 comments

Text Of U.S. - North Korea Agreement

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T



https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/full-text-of-the-us-north-korea-agreement-signed-by-trump-kim/ar-AAywC1A

President Donald J Trump of the United States of America and Chairman Kim Jong Un of the State Affairs Commission of the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea (DPRK) held first historic summit in Singapore on June 12, 2018.

President Trump and Chairman Kim Jong Un conducted a comprehensive in-depth and sincere exchange of opinions on the issues related to the establishment of new US-DPRK relations and the building of a lasting an robust peace regime on the Korean Peninsula. President Trump committed to provide security guarantees to the DPRK, and Chairman Kim Jong Un reaffirmed his firm and unwavering commitment to complete denuclearization of the Korean peninsula.

Convinced that the establishment of new US-DPRK relations will contribute to the peace and prosperity of the Korean peninsula and of the world, and recognizing that mutual confidence building can promote the denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula, President Trump and Chairman Kim Jong Un state the following:

  1. The United States and the DPRK commit to establish new US-DPRK relations in accordance with the desire of the peoples of the two countries for peace and prosperity
  2. The United States and the DPRK will join their efforts to build a lasting and stable peace regime on the Korean Peninsula
  3. Reaffirming the April 27, 2018 Panmunjom Declaration, the DPRK commits to work toward complete denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula
  4. The United States and the DPRK commit to recovering POW/MIA remains, including the immediate repatriation of those already identified.

Having acknowledged that the US-DPRK summit — the first in history — was an epochal event of great significance in overcoming decades of tensions and hostilities between the two countries and for the opening up of a new future, President Trump and Chairman Kim Jong Un commit to implement the stipulation in this joint statement fully and expeditiously. The United States and the DPRK commit to hold follow-on negotiations, led by the US Secretary of State, Mike Pompeo, and a relevant high-level DPRK official, at the earliest possible date, to implement the outcomes of the US-DPRK summit.

President Donald J Trump of the United States of America and Chairman Kim Jong Un of the State Affairs Commission of the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea have committed to cooperate for the development of new US-DPRK relations and for the promotion of peace, prosperity, and security of the Korean Peninsula and of the world.


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Thrawn 31
Professor Participates
1  Thrawn 31    8 years ago

What agreement, far as I can tell it was just empty promises and huge propaganda victories for Kim.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1.2  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Thrawn 31 @1    8 years ago

A television show. 

It is striking that Trump has claimed that "my team" and the N Korean team spent months preparing for the summit, and yet there is hardly a single word of specificity in the document. This should actually lead us to conclude that the negotiations have failed to this point. If they had succeeded there would have been at least SOMETHING in detail in the agreement. 

So why did the summit happen anyway?  Both sides wanted the good publicity that was inevitable. Who is against "peace"? 

 
 
 
SteevieGee
Professor Silent
1.3  SteevieGee  replied to  Thrawn 31 @1    8 years ago

So...  That's it?  4 vaguely worded bullets amounting to almost nothing?  This seems to me like two well established liars promising nothing.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
1.4  Ozzwald  replied to  Thrawn 31 @1    8 years ago
What agreement, far as I can tell it was just empty promises and huge propaganda victories for Kim.

Don't forget Trump agreeing to stop any war gaming with SK.  Trump couldn't make a good deal if his life depended on it.

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Professor Participates
1.4.1  Thrawn 31  replied to  Ozzwald @1.4    8 years ago

Oh I saw that, I am sure China is absolutely thrilled with that statement. But as of yet the DoD has not received any word as far as cancelling or halting any exercises, so even that is so far completely empty rhetoric. As far as I can tell not a single fucking thing has come from any of this, except Kim being the first North Korean leader to force a US president to sit with him as equals. 

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
1.4.2  Ozzwald  replied to  Thrawn 31 @1.4.1    8 years ago
As far as I can tell not a single fucking thing has come from any of this, except Kim being the first North Korean leader to force a US president to sit with him as equals.

I haven't confirmed it, but heard in one place that China may already be dropping some/all sanctions on NK because of this meeting/agreement.

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
1.5  Greg Jones  replied to  Thrawn 31 @1    8 years ago

We're not surprised that you would feel this way JR, what with your expertise in foreign affairs. Do you think Kimmy Poo will get a Nobel Prize for just showing up?

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
Professor Quiet
1.5.1  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Greg Jones @1.5    8 years ago
what with your expertise in foreign affairs.

John has as much experience at foreign affairs as Donald Trump does, maybe more since you can't get less than zero.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1.5.2  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Greg Jones @1.5    8 years ago

Beforehand, Trump told reporters that asked him if he had been preparing for the meeting 

"I have been preparing for this meeting all my life" 

If he has been preparing for this meeting all his life, how come this result was the best he could produce? 

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Guide
1.5.3  Sparty On  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @1.5.1    8 years ago

Lol a statement which only illustrates why some on the left are so out of touch with reality.  

The cheese has finally slipped completely off some of your crackers

 
 
 
lib50
Professor Silent
1.5.4  lib50  replied to  Sparty On @1.5.3    8 years ago
Lol a statement which only illustrates why some on the left are so out of touch with reality.

Projection again.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Guide
1.5.5  Sparty On  replied to  lib50 @1.5.4    8 years ago

Lol, i'm sure it is in your world but in the real world ..... not so much.

 
 
 
Spikegary
Junior Quiet
1.6  Spikegary  replied to  Thrawn 31 @1    8 years ago

Kind of like Bill Clinton's agreement with him, except President Trump is not giving them nuclear technology that they can violate the agreement on and develop nuclear weapons........yup, though it's not been done before, here we are 10 seconds afterward making it anti-Trump.  We have a saying that applies here:  SNAFU.  It applies to comments lile #1.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Participates
1.6.1  Dulay  replied to  Spikegary @1.6    8 years ago
Kind of like Bill Clinton's agreement with him, except President Trump is not giving them nuclear technology that they can violate the agreement on and develop nuclear weapons.

Are you claiming that the agreement signed by Clinton gave NK nuclear technology that allowed them to develop nuclear weapons? If so, prove it. 

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
1.7  Tacos!  replied to  Thrawn 31 @1    8 years ago
huge propaganda victories for Kim

What does that even mean? What is the fruit of a propaganda victory?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2  seeder  JohnRussell    8 years ago
  1. The United States and the DPRK commit to establish new US-DPRK relations in accordance with the desire of the peoples of the two countries for peace and prosperity
  2. The United States and the DPRK will join their efforts to build a lasting and stable peace regime on the Korean Peninsula
  3. Reaffirming the April 27, 2018 Panmunjom Declaration, the DPRK commits to work toward complete denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula
  4. The United States and the DPRK commit to recovering POW/MIA remains, including the immediate repatriation of those already identified.

This the "meat" of the summit productivity. I don't know how many people notice it , hopefully a lot, but number 1 and number 2 are virtually identical. When you only have 4 bullet points, having two of them say the same thing is not encouraging. 

To say the whole thing is vague is putting it mildly. 

Returning the remains of those who died in captivity 65 years ago might be a nice thing for families, but is hardly a major achievement given the circumstances today.

"President Trump committed to provide security guarantees to the DPRK"  What this phrase refers to is the lessening of the U.S. military presence in South Korea and the region. This from Trump who constantly bleats about enlarging the U.S. military. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.1  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  JohnRussell @2    8 years ago
The United States and the DPRK commit to recovering POW/MIA remains, including the immediate repatriation of those already identified.

Just heard that the U.S. will pay North Korea cash money to get those remains back. 

 
 
 
SteevieGee
Professor Silent
2.1.1  SteevieGee  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1    8 years ago

I guess the Iran deal is no longer the worst deal ever.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Participates
2.1.2  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1    8 years ago

But … but … Dennis Rodman cried!  It had to be a great success!

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.1.3  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @2.1.2    8 years ago

He cried when they caught him drunk on the Celebrity Apprentice too. 

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
2.1.4  Greg Jones  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1    8 years ago
Just heard that the U.S. will pay North Korea cash money to get those remains back.

Where did you "heard" it from?  Hmmmm??

 
 
 
Jasper2529
Professor Quiet
2.1.5  Jasper2529  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1    8 years ago
Just heard that the U.S. will pay North Korea cash money to get those remains back. 

I'm sure that you and those who voted up your comment can provide a REPUTABLE source for what you all "heard".

Also, will Trump be "paying" (funneling through US banks) that money in Euros or US Dollars like Obama tried to do with Iran?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.1.6  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Jasper2529 @2.1.5    8 years ago

An expert on North Korea said it on TV. When I can find it in print I will post it for you. 

 
 
 
Jasper2529
Professor Quiet
2.1.7  Jasper2529  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1.6    8 years ago
An expert on North Korea said it on TV. When I can find it in print I will post it for you.

I eagerly await a written transcript of what this "expert" said. I'm sure he has also been privy to first-hand knowledge of all of the highly confidential information of the summit!

 
 
 
owlsview677
Freshman Silent
2.1.9  owlsview677  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1.6    8 years ago

I would hope that you could at least provide us with this "expert's" name. Are you sure it was an expert? It seems odd that someone who conducts himself as being so much in the know and doesn't like to be challenged would know the name of someone he considered an expert worth quoting or perhaps in your case paraphrasing when your own credibility is on the line.

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Participates
2.1.10  1stwarrior  replied to  Jasper2529 @2.1.5    8 years ago

Or using military aircraft to deliver $1.7B in cash in various tenders to Kim?

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Guide
2.1.11  Sparty On  replied to  SteevieGee @2.1.1    8 years ago
I guess the Iran deal is no longer the worst deal ever.

Nah, it's still the worst deal ever.   So you got that going for you.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Participates
2.1.12  Dulay  replied to  Jasper2529 @2.1.7    8 years ago
I eagerly await a written transcript of what this "expert" said. I'm sure he has also been privy to first-hand knowledge of all of the highly confidential information of the summit!

Well it isn't a transcript but everyone is speaking clearly enough to understand. 

The expert, is Victor Cha, he is a former Director for Asian Affairs in the White House's National Security Council, with responsibility for Japan, North and South Korea, Australia, and New Zealand. He was George W. Bush's top advisor on North Korean affairs. h/t wiki

FF to about 5:15 of the video. 

Note that Cha said that he did the last recovery operations in 2007 and that the Pentagon pays NK about 1 million for each set of remains. 

Here is a more thorough bio on Victor Cha:

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Guide
2.1.13  MrFrost  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1    8 years ago

I am sure that the cash will be billions of dollars, in a blacked out plane, unmarked bills in the middle of the night and the pilots will be executed and their remains incinerated and launched into space towards the sun. 

Hey, that's what the nutters still bleat on a daily basis. 

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Participates
2.1.14  Dulay  replied to  Jasper2529 @2.1.7    8 years ago

Oh and I hope that quenches your thirst for facts. 

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
2.1.15  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Jasper2529 @2.1.7    8 years ago

I think you will be waiting quite a while...

 
 
 
Galen Marvin Ross
Sophomore Quiet
2.2  Galen Marvin Ross  replied to  JohnRussell @2    8 years ago
The United States and the DPRK commit to establish new US-DPRK relations in accordance with the desire of the peoples of the two countries for peace and prosperity The United States and the DPRK will join their efforts to build a lasting and stable peace regime on the Korean Peninsula Reaffirming the April 27, 2018 Panmunjom Declaration, the DPRK commits to work toward complete denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula The United States and the DPRK commit to recovering POW/MIA remains, including the immediate repatriation of those already identified.

This is exactly what both men agreed to and, what it really means, pay attention.

 
 
 
Galen Marvin Ross
Sophomore Quiet
2.2.2  Galen Marvin Ross  replied to  NORMAN-D @2.2.1    8 years ago
Sucks to be wrong...eah?

Who's wrong? Today Trump tweeted that he is ending joint military exercises in South Korea and, North Korean state news announced tonight that Trump not only agreed to ending the exercises but, agreed to lift the sanctions on North Korea for what exactly, I mean North Korea didn't offer anything in return except to talk to us. Talk is cheap, Trump said so.

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
2.3  Greg Jones  replied to  JohnRussell @2    8 years ago
What this phrase refers to is the lessening of the U.S. military presence in South Korea and the region. This from Trump who constantly bleats about enlarging the U.S. military.

That presence can quickly be reestablished if Kim get belligerent.

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Participates
2.4  Gordy327  replied to  JohnRussell @2    8 years ago
To say the whole thing is vague is putting it mildly.

It amounts to all talk and pandering lip service (typical of politics). Let's see if any action actually comes from it. Hopefully, something does.

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
2.4.1  Tacos!  replied to  Gordy327 @2.4    8 years ago
pandering lip service

Who is he pandering to? The huge pro-North Korea voting block?

 
 
 
user image
Freshman Silent
2.4.2    replied to  Tacos! @2.4.1    8 years ago
Who is he pandering to? The huge pro-North Korea voting block?

E.A  Ahh so refreshing to read , something with Intellect :-)

Please do not stop :-))

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Participates
2.4.3  Gordy327  replied to  Tacos! @2.4.1    8 years ago
Who is he pandering to?

Anyone watching.

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
Professor Quiet
2.4.4  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Tacos! @2.4.1    8 years ago
Who is he pandering to?

Pander: verb - to gratify, indulge or satisfy.

He's pandering to Kim Jong Un, Putin and the rest of the authoritarian rulers who just saw this as US acceptance of their bad behavior. It's signaling to them that killing your own people, threatening your neighbors with nuclear weapons and committing horrendous human rights abuses are no longer road blocks to the US when it comes to deciding who we partner with. They get to keep on doing what they've been doing with zero punishment. Trump just turned the US into a toothless shark that can no longer protect its allies from dictators, communists, fascists and other authoritarians around the world. He set precedent for all of them to complain about any current sanctions against their countries based on their continued vile behavior and inhumane treatment of their people. He gave them all a green light to keep doing what they're doing, stuffing ballots in fake elections, murdering dissidents and journalists, sending citizens to labor camps if they're not patriotic enough. And what did we get in return? Being allowed to repatriate our POW's/MIA's and a half-hearted agreement to "work towards" denuclearization.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Guide
2.4.5  Sparty On  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @2.4.4    8 years ago


According to Merriam Webster Dictionary:

Definition of diplomacy

1 : the art and practice of conducting negotiations between nations
2 : skill in handling affairs without arousing hostility
The people and parts of the world that don't have their heads planted firmly up their ass ..... understand this is what is being attempted here.  
For those that don't understand that well, as noted previously, the view is rather limited and stanky.

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
Professor Quiet
2.4.6  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Sparty On @2.4.5    8 years ago
skill in handling affairs without arousing hostility

There is no diplomacy going on here, just simple bending over and giving in to Kim's demands with zero to show for it. That's like a hostage negotiator agreeing to give the hostage takers everything they ask for, helicopter, a billions dollars, the staff from the local Hooters, all without getting a single hostage released. Well those who have their heads firmly up Trumps ass are apparently just hoping the little dick tater will change his ways and stop his missile programs and give up his nuclear ambitions all because Trump shook his tiny hand. Their little hands must be a match made in heaven, if your idea of heaven is a gas station bathroom in the middle of nowhere.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Guide
2.4.7  Sparty On  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @2.4.6    8 years ago
There is no diplomacy going on here, just simple bending over and giving in to Kim's demands with zero to show for it.

This early in the game you can't make the statement with any level of certainty.   But your hatred for everything Trump clouds any good judgement you may have had completely and absolutely.

That is sad for you but there you go

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
2.4.8  Trout Giggles  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @2.4.4    8 years ago
"work towards" denuclearization.

Will North Korea allow UN inspectors to ensure their denuclearization?

surely we aren't going to just accept Kim's word that their dismantling their nukes, are we?

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
2.4.9  Tacos!  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @2.4.4    8 years ago
US acceptance of their bad behavior.

Denial is not just a river in Egypt. Trump has imposed pretty much the harshest economic sanctions in the world on North Korea and managed to talk China into imposing sanctions they would not previously use. That's actually the opposite of acceptance. As of right this minute, none of those sanctions have been lifted.

Trump just turned the US into a toothless shark

Is that a fact now?! Let North Korea or anyone try some shit and see what happens with the toothless shark. 

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
2.4.11  Greg Jones  replied to  Trout Giggles @2.4.8    8 years ago
surely we aren't going to just accept Kim's word that their dismantling their nukes, are we?

The Democrats seem to think we can accept Iran's word that they are not breaking the "agreement".

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
Professor Quiet
2.4.12  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Greg Jones @2.4.11    8 years ago
think we can accept Iran's word that they are not breaking the "agreement".

" To make sure Iran holds up its end of the bargain, the deal permits the atomic agency "to implement continuous monitoring." 

"T he agency will have cameras that provide 24-hour monitoring at the Natanz facility, which has 5,000 centrifuges, and inspectors will have daily access to the facility for 15 years."

" For suspected sites where surveillance is not spelled out in the agreement, inspectors may have to wait up to 24 days for access. Some experts say that’s sufficient to detect violations, while others disagree."

That is a far cry from the half wit Republican claim that there are no inspectors or that Iran is not being monitored. Is it perfect? Nope, but it's a lot better than Trumps claim that NK will simply "work towards" denuclearization without any oversight. 

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
2.5  Tacos!  replied to  JohnRussell @2    8 years ago
Returning the remains of those who died in captivity 65 years ago might be a nice thing for families, but is hardly a major achievement given the circumstances today.

I don't see anybody else doing it. 

I swear, Trump could walk on water and the headline would be "Trump Can't Swim."

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
2.5.1  Trout Giggles  replied to  Tacos! @2.5    8 years ago

Now that's funny, Tacos!

 
 
 
321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu
Sophomore Participates
3  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu     8 years ago

*

 
 
 
Old Hermit
Sophomore Silent
5  Old Hermit    8 years ago

After watching this bizarre show and realizing just how impotent this meeting actually turned out to be, (despite all of Trump's peacocking), I haven't been able to get that line from Macbeth out of my head.

Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player That struts and frets his hour upon the stage And then is heard no more: it is a tale Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing.

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
5.1  Greg Jones  replied to  Old Hermit @5    8 years ago
a tale Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing

You were correct. No value. removed - PRF

 
 
 
Raven Wing
Professor Participates
5.2  Raven Wing   replied to  Old Hermit @5    8 years ago

It is my opinion, based upon the personalities and past performances of both Trump and Kim, neither of them will keep their promise or agreement. Both are mentally unstable individual who are egotistical and into their own self adulation, and are in this whole power play for their own personal agendas, ans has nothing to do with the security of their own country or peace between their countries. 

They have both made promises to their own people in one breath, then rescinded or changed it in the next. Neither can be trusted even an inch, so this whole experience is nothing more than a meaningless photo op for them both. All Trump wants from this exercise in comedy is the Nobel Peace prize, and not for the best interest of America or world peace. And all Trump has done is fed the ego of both himself and Kim, by giving Kim the world attention he does not deserve.

My opinion. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
5.2.1  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Raven Wing @5.2    8 years ago

Rest easy, they are not going to give Trump the Nobel Peace Prize. The committee is holding a grudge from when he stood in front on the United Nations and basically told them that he might have to wipe North Korea off the face of the earth.  The Peace Prize committee sort of believes that is a no- no. 

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
5.2.2  Greg Jones  replied to  Raven Wing @5.2    8 years ago

Sweeping generalizations.

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
5.2.3  Greg Jones  replied to  JohnRussell @5.2.1    8 years ago

Little Fatty Kimmy will probably get one and most liberals will swoon.

 
 
 
Jasper2529
Professor Quiet
5.2.4  Jasper2529  replied to  JohnRussell @5.2.1    8 years ago

Hi there, John - Several hours ago, you said that you saw an "expert on North Korea" on TV today and told me that he stated that Trump was going to pay NoKo in USD cash to retrieve the remains of Americans.

When I asked you who this expert was, you said you'd get back to me with his name and even offered to find the transcript. I'd be happy just with the name ... I've been waiting for over 5 hours ... did you find it yet?   thinking

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
5.2.7  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Jasper2529 @5.2.4    8 years ago

Listening to you guys is hilarious.

Victor Cha was   George W. Bush 's top advisor on North Korean affairs. [4]

This is what he said on Stephanie Ruhle's television show this morning. 

" It is very important for the families, for closure. It is money to the North Korean regime. It is money that the Pentagon pays directly to the Kim regime."

Host :  "We have to pay them ? How much"

Cha:  "It's expensive. It's like a million dollars for each set of remains"

Host: "Really?"

Cha : "Yeah."

Cha said he was involved in the last repatriation of remains in 2007.

So , why wasn't the great dealmaker Trump able to get our soldiersremains back without paying for them?  

=================

and Jasper, don't doubt me. It will only make you look foolish. 

 
 
 
Raven Wing
Professor Participates
5.2.8  Raven Wing   replied to  Greg Jones @5.2.2    8 years ago
Sweeping generalizations.

Flag it. 

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Participates
5.2.9  Dulay  replied to  JohnRussell @5.2.7    8 years ago

It's interesting how the bullshit snarking stops when confronted with facts isn't it?  It happens every time. They scream PROVE IT and when you do, instead of acknowledge it, they disappear. 

 
 
 
Jasper2529
Professor Quiet
5.2.10  Jasper2529  replied to  JohnRussell @5.2.7    8 years ago
Victor Cha was  George W. Bush's top advisor on North Korean affairs.[4]

That's great. But you forgot to include this part of the same Wikipedia link :

He [Cha] was classmates with Barack Obama at Columbia.  [9]

and Jasper, don't doubt me. It will only make you look foolish. 

I've never said that I doubted you, John; however, I do question what you and others consider reliable sources:  MSNBC and Wikipedia?  laughing dude

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
5.2.11  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Dulay @5.2.9    8 years ago

Everyone is used to it by now. 

They are too ashamed to discuss what actually happened at the summit, so they try and gaslight and bamboozle with pointless bullshit. It is the Trump way. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
5.2.13  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  XDm9mm @5.2.12    8 years ago

We will find out when the remains come back. 

How do you know we didnt pay for the three hostages? Or do you just take the pathological liar Donald Trump's word for it? 

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Participates
5.2.14  Dulay  replied to  Jasper2529 @5.2.10    8 years ago
He [Cha] was classmates with Barack Obama at Columbia.

That is some weak shit. 

Address what he said in the video. Refute his credentials if you can. 

I've never said that I doubted you, John; however, I do question what you and others consider reliable sources: MSNBC 

It's an MSNBC video that everyone can watch for themselves. Unless you're claiming that it is somehow altered, it's a perfectly reliable source. 

and Wikipedia?

Didn't you just state:

But you forgot to include this part of the same Wikipedia link:

Why YES, yes you did. So YOUR use of Wikipedia is ALL GOOD, but if others use it as a source it's laughable. 

That reeks of hypocrisy. 

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Participates
5.2.15  Dulay  replied to  XDm9mm @5.2.12    8 years ago
Oh President Trump DID get three LIVING American hostages back, and it cost NOTHING.

Right and Trump got his photo op...

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Participates
5.2.18  Dulay  replied to  XDm9mm @5.2.17    8 years ago
President Trump needs no photo op..... 

The WH STAGED a photo op on the tarmac with Trump and the hostages. 

the press would take pictures of him shitting if they could.

Which his sycophants would print on T-shirts and wear proudly. 

They can't get enough of him.

Nor can he. 
 

 
 
 
Raven Wing
Professor Participates
5.3  Raven Wing   replied to  Old Hermit @5    8 years ago

thumbs up

 
 
 
LynneA
Freshman Silent
8  LynneA    8 years ago

Good thing we ripped up our Iran deal...this one is so much better./s

The hastiness with which this summit took place is evident in the outcome. 

Can only hope the fragile framework produced will allow for diplomacy to shape a more peaceful world.

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
8.2  Greg Jones  replied to  LynneA @8    8 years ago
Can only hope the fragile framework produced will allow for diplomacy to shape a more peaceful world.

You got it, while the hard lefters poo-poo it. This was just a first step in the right direction. If this had been Obama or Hillary the left would be having joyous celebrations. On the other hand....we have Bill Maher, doing what he does best...saying stupid shyt.

"Can I ask about the economy because this economy is going pretty well? I feel like the bottom has to fall out at some point. And by the way, I'm hoping for it. Because I think one way you get rid of Trump is a crashing economy. So, please, bring on the recession. Sorry if that hurts people, but it's either root for a recession or you lose your democracy, " Maher said on the Friday broadcast of his HBO show Real Time."

With views like this, the left is trying to win back Congress and put a Democrat in the WH??   chuckle good one laughing dude Face Palm

 
 
 
LynneA
Freshman Silent
8.2.1  LynneA  replied to  Greg Jones @8.2    8 years ago

Agree it's a first step.  The elevation of Kim Jong Un to the world stage leaves me desperate for more information on our President's plan going forward.  Trying to sort through the words of the President and cabinet officials is challenging opaque. 

I truly want a peaceful and prosperous North Korea for the sake of the people living under this murderous regime.  The Korean War weighs heavy in my mind as the man who raised me was a POW.   Fortunately escaped...yet not unscathed ~ the treatment, aftermath and his ultimate suicide lays at the feet of this dictatorial country.  Seeing our President with a thumbs up made me want to scream.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
8.2.2  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  LynneA @8.2.1    8 years ago
The elevation of Kim Jong Un to the world stage leaves me desperate for more information on our President's plan going forward.

What plan?  You don't have to give the fool in chief the benefit of the doubt Lynne. 

 
 
 
LynneA
Freshman Silent
8.2.3  LynneA  replied to  JohnRussell @8.2.2    8 years ago
You don't have to give the fool in chief the benefit of the doubt Lynne.

JR, I've been desperate for any plan/policy from this administration.  Climate, Iran, NAFTA, Syria, tariffs, G7, China, healthcare, school safety, etc.  My Senator's offices have absolutely nothing to relay to constituents.  I'll not be deterred ~ perhaps a call to Corker's office tomorrow and tell him by all means "poke the bear"!!

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
8.2.4  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  LynneA @8.2.3    8 years ago

Good Luck. 

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Participates
8.3  It Is ME  replied to  LynneA @8    8 years ago
Good thing we ripped up our Iran deal

It was a non-binding "NOTHING" deal. John (I'm young and windsurf) Kerry said so in front of congress.

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Professor Participates
8.3.1  Thrawn 31  replied to  It Is ME @8.3    8 years ago
It was a non-binding "NOTHING" deal.

And still had more substance than this.

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
8.3.2  Greg Jones  replied to  Thrawn 31 @8.3.1    8 years ago
And still had more substance than this.

Absolutely not. The agreement was only obtained by paying a ransom, and all that money went on to finance more terrorism. It is non binding on either side and does nothing in keeping Iran from developing nukes.

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Participates
8.3.4  It Is ME  replied to  Thrawn 31 @8.3.1    8 years ago
And still had more substance than this

It had sooooo much "substance", at the "Drop of a Hat"....it was dissolved.....just that quick.

Great "Substance" !

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Guide
8.3.5  MrFrost  replied to  XDm9mm @8.3.3    8 years ago
Possibly true....  Iran DID get everything up front and courtesy of Kerry and Obama, the United States got fucked.

CLAIM

The Obama administration secretly bribed Iran to release four prisoners in January 2016. See Example( s )

RATING

ORIGIN

In January 2016, the Obama administration successfully negotiated the   release   of four Americans who had been imprisoned in Iran in exchange for the release of seven Iranians who had been imprisoned in the United States.(A fifth American   prisoner   was released separately.) At around the same time, the U.S. airlifted the equivalent of USD $400 million in various currencies to Tehran, sparking conspiracy   theories   about the timing:

House Speaker Paul D. Ryan (R-Wis.) was among those who seized on the timing and cloak-and-dagger delivery method, which was   first reported   by the Wall Street Journal, saying it proved suspicions that the Obama administration had tried to hide a payment for the four Americans, including Washington Post reporter Jason Rezaian. GOP candidate Donald Trump called it an example of the administration’s foreign policy failures.

“Obama administration sent plane load of cash to #Iran as ransom as part of deal on hostages. Just unreal,” tweeted Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.), a long-standing critic of the Iran talks.

As with other issues that would normally fall by the wayside in a normal daily news cycle, the payout to Iran became prime fodder for yet another election-year   debate :

State Department spokesman John Kirby joined Bill Hemmer on “America’s Newsroom” to defend a $400 million cash transfer to Iran during the release of four Iranian-held U.S. hostages.

Kirby said the money had been frozen in a trust fund in the U.S. for decades and it was “their money.”

He asserted that the fact that the transaction occurred during the release of the detained Americans was “coincidental.” Hemmer pressed Kirby, saying that it appears that this cash transfer was kept secret and was effectively a “ransom.”

“It looks bad,” Hemmer said.

However, the $400 million dollar transfer was actually an openly announced one, paid in settlement of a nearly 40-year dispute between Iran and the United States — a settlement that likely saved the United States several billion dollars.

Back in late 1979, after Iranian revolutionaries took 52 Americans hostage at the US Embassy in Tehran, the United States severed diplomatic relations with Iran and froze Iranian assets in America. Among those frozen assets was a $400 million delivery of fighter jets from the U.S. that Iran’s previous government had already paid for.

Although the American hostages were finally released a year later, issues such as the frozen Iranian assets (including that $400 million) were not settled at that time. Instead, an international court based in the Hague, the   Iran–United States Claims Tribunal   was established to deal with such legal claims. The tribunal process dragged on for years and years without a ruling on the $400 million being issued, and finally, when arbitration process was apparently about to wind up (quite possibly not in American’s favor), the U.S. agreed to pay Iran back the $400 million principal along with $1.3 billion in interest. If the issue had gone to the tribunal for a decision, as was expected, the U.S. could have been on the hook for the full $10 billion in compensation Iran was seeking.

It is true the U.S. agreed to the settlement at the same time it was negotiating a nuclear deal with Iran and for the return of four U.S. citizens who had been detained by Iran. However, the negotiations over these these issues were conducted by completely separate teams in order to avoid any overlap or suggestions of connections between them.

As   Vox   noted, charges that the U.S. had paid “ ransom ” to Iran for the release of hostages didn’t even make logical sense:

The payment, which sounds really shady out of context, was actually the end of a boring, decades-old international legal case totally unrelated to the hot-button nuclear and prisoner issues.

[T]here was no direct evidence to back up [the ransom] theory. The speculation about timing was just that — speculation.

Iranian negotiators on the prisoner exchange were not the same negotiators involved in the weapons deal settlement. Therefore, they couldn’t make demands of the US team negotiating the weapons deal settlement, which means they couldn’t negotiate a quid pro quo of money for hostage release, the definition of a ransom.

Moreover, the basic logic of it didn’t make any sense. Iran was going to get that money back no matter what through the arbitration process — probably more, if the Obama administration was right. Why would [Iran] release potentially valuable hostages in exchange for money it would have gotten otherwise? Iran would have to be the world’s dumbest hostage taker.

Even though the Obama administration openly   announced   the settlement in January 2016, it wasn’t until several months later that claims the U.S. had offered a “ransom payment” began to circulate due to spin from some Iranian officials. But   Vox   also noted that spin wasn’t too credible:

[One cited] piece of evidence for the payment being a ransom is that the Iranians spun it that way.

But of course Iranian officials would spin it as a hostage payment. This makes them look strong to their domestic audience and America look weak. We don’t take political spin from American officials at face value, so we shouldn’t take Iranian spin at face value either — especially when it’s contradicted by independent evidence.

By delivering the payment on the same day as the prisoner release, Iranian officials could claim that they got the money as part of a ransom deal.

But the truth is that the Iranians could have claimed that no matter when the cash was delivered. If the Obama administration had forked over $400 million six months later, those same Iranian defense officials could have lied and said it was part of the prisoner release deal rather than the weapons settlement.

The lie isn’t significantly more credible just because the cash was delivered on the same day. Nor should American media and politicians help validate the Iranian lie by treating Iranian propaganda as actual evidence.

On 18 August 2016, the Obama administration acknowledged that delivery of the $400 million payment due to Iran in settlement of the dispute over payment for military equipment had been held up until officials were sure that American prisoners Iran had agreed to free in a separate deal were safely away:

State Department spokesman John Kirby addressed questions by explaining that the U.S. held on to the $400 million cash payment until American prisoners were on a plane and safely away from Iran to “retain maximum leverage.” Kirby said the arrangement did not in any way constitute a ransom payment, as President Barack Obama’s Republican critics have alleged.

“We deliberately leveraged that moment to finalize these outstanding issues nearly simultaneously,” he said. “With concerns that Iran may renege on the prisoner release, given unnecessary delays regarding persons in Iran who could not be located as well as, to be quite honest, mutual mistrust between Iran and the United States, we of course sought to retain maximum leverage until after American citizens were released. That was our top priority.”

The fact that the money was physically sent to Iran in various currencies  rather than simply transferred by wire may seem odd in the context of the United States’ increasingly cashless society, but that was done in order to avoid existing Treasury Department   sanctions   that banned the use of American currency in transactions with Iran, and international   sanctions   which at that time kept Iran from accessing the global financial markets (and which were   lifted   in January 2016).

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Guide
8.3.8  MrFrost  replied to  XDm9mm @8.3.6    8 years ago

I proved you wrong, deal with it. 

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Guide
8.3.9  MrFrost  replied to  Texan1211 @8.3.7    8 years ago

Nope, you just keep believing the BS put out there by alex jones and rush limpballs and fox fake news. ( deleted, skirting  {SP} ) Maybe you should try reading REAL news and not conspiracy theories. 

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
8.3.10  Greg Jones  replied to  MrFrost @8.3.5    8 years ago

Without the bribe they would not have been released.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Expert
8.3.12  Ender  replied to  MrFrost @8.3.9    8 years ago

No matter how many times that lie is debunked, they keep repeating it over and over and over.

It is like they refuse to see the truth.

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Guide
8.3.13  MrFrost  replied to  Greg Jones @8.3.10    8 years ago

They were released long before the money ever left. It's an 18 hour flight, the sailors were held for less than 8 hours... Do the math.

 
 
 
Rmando
Sophomore Silent
9  Rmando    8 years ago

If Obama had his name on this the left would be dancing in the street and demand Obama get a second nobel prize. This is where the left is in their anti Trump derangement that they'd rather see a nuclear N Korea and war than a peace agreement. 

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
9.1  devangelical  replied to  Rmando @9    8 years ago

NK wouldn't have nukes now, if it hadn't been for Donald Rumsfeld. Iran wouldn't be on the verge of having nukes now, without Dickless Cheney.

 
 
 
Rmando
Sophomore Silent
9.1.1  Rmando  replied to  devangelical @9.1    8 years ago

N Korea wouldn't have nukes if it hasn't been for Bill Clinton. If Iran does get nukes it will be thanks to the big head start they got when Obama appeased them.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
9.1.3  devangelical  replied to  NORMAN-D @9.1.2    8 years ago

Yeah, semantics fuck up on my part. Deliverable. Iran has been producing fissionable material for about 20 years when an old reactor capable of producing that material was brought back online with replacement parts provided by Halliburton and sold through an offshore shell corporation to avoid the US sanctions imposed against Iran. Congress later enacted a law making these types of sales illegal. 

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Guide
9.1.4  MrFrost  replied to  NORMAN-D @9.1.2    8 years ago

NK got their nukes when Bush was in office....catch up. 

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
9.2  Greg Jones  replied to  Rmando @9    8 years ago

They must hate America. A large number of them appear to want both North Korea and Iran to be nuclear powers. They also seem to want to alienate both China and Russia. Would it ever be safe to elect Democrats to high office again.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
9.2.1  devangelical  replied to  Greg Jones @9.2    8 years ago

I don't hate my country. Iran and NK are already nuclear powers. Russia and China can't be trusted. I know, let's elect a fucking birther moron that thinks BHO is a secret muslim......., oh wait....

 
 
 
321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu
Sophomore Participates
10  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu     8 years ago

Congratulations to both leaders for actually making it this far.

Personally I am glad to see a written agreement. This simple one page "letter of agreement" was probably a good first step considering by his own admission our president isn't much for words to begin with.  Trump "Words to me dont mean much, it's deeds that matter." 

At least now this is in writing.

Although, I would much rather have a total video recording of the full meeting to see what was actually said and how we were represented in full. That would give us a more accurate indication of the true nature of where we really are and what the chances are of a amicable solution to the threat of nuclear war between our two nations. 

However, What we are offered here is vanilla icing on a cake that's not even in the oven yet. 

Tasty but not much substance.  I guess we'll have to see if the cake ever materializes and what kind it is then.

But I'd say we are just adding one ingredient at a time at this point and It isn't an instant cake mix either.

So time will tell. 

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
10.1  Greg Jones  replied to  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu @10    8 years ago

This is how the cake (or sausage) is made Steve...you start with a bowl, and then add one ingredient at a time...and the kitchen is behind the scenes and the cooks are talking....and where the real work has just begun. If Kim reneges, it would just put him back where he was. I think he has more sense than to do that.

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Professor Participates
10.2  Thrawn 31  replied to  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu @10    8 years ago

We don't even have a recipe yet, we can't even think about shopping for ingredients. The best we have is a sort of arrangement on what dessert might look like in a few weeks. 

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
10.2.1  Greg Jones  replied to  Thrawn 31 @10.2    8 years ago

It sounds like you were expecting a finished cake. What would be the proper topper??

 
 
 
Colour Me Free
Senior Silent
11  Colour Me Free    8 years ago

No new promises..

More spectacle than substance..

What would the republicans be saying "IF" Obama had made a deal like this?

And the list of these types of comments can be found throughout various media sources on the subject of US and NK summit...

No new promises were made?  I am thinking is a good thing ... promises do not mean dick, so why make a bunch of them that are never intended to be fulfilled - at least the current president is not handing cash over to buy an agreement...  steps have to taken to begin a process, things cannot be completed in one meeting... if the process continues, given time, could lead to agreements of more substance.

"IF" Obama had made this same agreement with NK what would republicans be saying?  Why deal in what "IF's" .. the reality is, Obama did not reach this agreement - he tried with the 6 party talks and ultimately had to walk away from the table 'lil Kim' preferred to test nuclear weapons than submit to an agreement - the same may happen here .. yet, steps have once again been taken in the 'correct' direction - now only time will tell if this attempt succeeds or not … 

Those that wish for the current presidents failure, those dreams may still come true, so do not lose hope just yet!!!

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
12  seeder  JohnRussell    8 years ago

from the conservative newspaper The Washington Examiner

THE BIG GIVEAWAY: Trump has promised to keep economic sanctions on the North until they show they are living up to the principles in the signed document, but the U.S. president made a major concession, agreeing to halt the U.S.-South Korea military exercise that the Pentagon has always insisted are vital to maintaining the readiness to defend the South from the North. “We will be stopping the war games, which will save us a tremendous amount of money. Unless and until we see the future negotiation is not going along like it should.”

Trump also conceded a major point that North Korea has used in propaganda for years, namely that the joint exercises — which the U.S insists are purely defensive — are in fact “provocative,” to which Trump also added “tremendously expensive.”

“The amount of money that we spend on that is incredible,” said Trump, who also faulted South Korea for not paying enough of the cost. “We have to talk to them. We have to talk to many countries about treating us fairly.” It’s not clear if Trump discussed the cancellation of exercise with South Korea president Moon Jae-in , despite Pentagon’s insistence that the scheduling of war games is always a joint decision.

SOUTH KOREA CONFUSED: A statement released by Moon’s office seemed to confirm the South Korean president was blindsided. “At this moment we need to figure out President Trump's accurate meaning and intention of this comment,” said the statement from the Blue House. “However, we believe we need to seek various measures how to efficiently move forward the dialogues [as] serious talks are being conducted to denuclearize the Korean Peninsula and establish relationships between North Korea and the United States.”

 
 
 
Dean Moriarty
Professor Silent
12.1  Dean Moriarty  replied to  JohnRussell @12    8 years ago

Just a fraction of the cuts Trump needs to make to get this runaway spending under control. Better than nothing. 

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
13  Bob Nelson    8 years ago

We have to hope that this will evolve favorably.

That said, Kim got the best of the meeting. He gave up nothing - the final communiqué is very similar to that signed with South Korea a couple weeks ago - while obtaining a new international respectability and an end to joint US / South Korea military exercises. There's no calendar for denuclearization.

I suspect that Kim is planning on drawn out negotiations... with a person not reputed for a long attention span...   Eye Roll

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
13.1  Tacos!  replied to  Bob Nelson @13    8 years ago
He gave up nothing

He acknowledged that the right and good thing for him to do would be to tear apart his nuclear weapons program. That is a 180º turn from years of declaring that their nuclear program was vital, they were proud of it, and they would never give it up. That'd be like Trump declaring that we had no right to impose sanctions on NK or that we were wrong to practice war games to fight NK.

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
14  Tacos!    8 years ago

I'm not sure what people expected after a 4 hour conversation. If you expected them to sign a treaty ending the war in half a day, you're ignorant. Most peace treaties take months to work out. Just having the two leaders meet and walk away friendly is an achievement. This was a necessary beginning. Details are not going to be hammered out by Trump and Kim. That's not how these things work. We have people for that and the process will take a long time.

 
 
 
Jasper2529
Professor Quiet
14.1  Jasper2529  replied to  Tacos! @14    8 years ago
I'm not sure what people expected after a 4 hour conversation.

Well, there's another seed claiming that Trump's father allegedly called him a "god". The allegation came from an unauthorized biography that a NYT review stated was filled with gossip.

As far as the Trump and KJU summit, I'm sure that those who despise Trump will chastise him for being unable to single-handedly cure cancer, Alzheimers, and MS in those 4 hours. 

 
 
 
bbl-1
Professor Silent
18  bbl-1    8 years ago

A pair of dishonest 'leaders' met and praised each other.  Speedboats, hotels, condos and sizzling steaks on the grill.  Mission accomplished.  The Trump was truly sent by gawd.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
19  Buzz of the Orient    8 years ago

Lots of speculation here, but time will tell, won't it? Let's just wait and see how it goes before we damn the direction it is headed. 

 
 

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