T-shirts saying 'stand for the flag, kneel for the cross' draw protest at school

Controversy over 'Old Glory' and The Flag.' 

Never was an issue until the right wing made it one.  If you don't this you're that.  If you don't do that you're this.  The adnauseam of the whining yawn. 

And isn't Georgia one of the states which has a very long history of police brutality against innocent minorities?   Just the other day some cops in Georgia tased a 5'2" 87 year old Syrian woman who was cutting dandelions to use in a salad.    I'm surprised they didn't just shoot her or sic dogs on her, but maybe her skin wasn't dark enough.

thecut

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Just a few weeks before that a Georgia cop shot and killed a black guy who was running away and posed no threat whatsoever.

nypost

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Perhaps a more appropriate t-shirt would have been one with this image (lots of good Christians in the pic too):

These would make great t-shirts too:

I'll bet if we put that "strange fruit" tree on the front and a Dixie Swastika on the back they'd sell like hot cakes at Trump rallies.

If people didn't like it, they had the perfectly acceptable option to not buy the fucking shirt., without hurting anyone

Yeah.....I guess the only things which would have been hurt would be the Establishment Clause and the sensibilities of ethical people who oppose police brutality.

There is no establishment clause as cheerleading is an extra curricular activity and they were engaging in a fundraiser.

They're no longer being sold on school grounds and no longer being sold by the school-affiliated booster group, so those facts would satisfy the courts.

Of course the t-shirts are still (unintentionally?) racist and intentionally theocratic.....

What crap. If you see racism in everything, maybe you have a closeted problem. 

We don't agree often, but this is one time.  How does that shirt even come close to promoting police brutality?  I see your "really" and raise you an "as if!"

It must be traumatic, attempting to live life without getting our wittle fee-fees hurt!

You sound like your feelings are hurt. 

Deleted

Two wrongs are two wrongs and only a fool fails to understand why racists don’t like it when a mirror is held to their faces.

To not denounce CHARLOTTESVILLES while repudiating athletes who protest unjust killings, the Trump lovers show their true “colors”.

A pox on those who piss in our faces and tell us “it’s raining!” 

Excel for when you foist them upon us!

Racist? Give me a fucking break.

Sounds like you didn't even read the op-ed or the news article it cites, much less pay any attention to the obvious references to current political issues.

deleted

Another member who persisted in posting a lynching pic for shock value was stopped from doing so but now it’s ok?  

Can you suggest a more appropriate photo which would evoke the police brutality issues which the NFL players are protesting?    Maybe one from the 1950s where the cops are using dogs, batons and fire hoses to assault peaceful civil rights protesters?    How about the one where John Lewis got his skull cracked open by a cop?

Or are you standing for the national anthem because you support those abuses and oppose civil rights protests?

"Off Topic"

? Strange Fruit is a protest song about racist murders of blacks which is exactly what NFL players kneeling is all about...

There is no establishment clause as cheerleading is an extra curricular activity and they were engaging in a fundraiser.

Cheerleading is a school based organization and function. Whether it's extra curricular or not is irrelevant.

 Also there is no issue with students wearing those shirts to school.

Why would there be? As long as it doesn't violate school dress codes, there is no problem.

Not the issue.

Under the equal access code if a school has any after school or before school extra curricular activities or clubs at all it has to allow a Christian club and can’t prohibit religious expression or advocacy during them.  A school under equal access has to choices, allow all clubs and all expression including religious or permit none at all. Christians and their expressions can’t be excluded before or after school. 

Are Christian clubs affiliated with school organized and sponsored sporting events, unlike cheerleaders? So your statement is irrelevant to the issue.

I was truly disheartened by the armed group Redneck Revolt being there.  Redneck Revolt is by the way a left organization.

If only Nazi Germany had had significant revolts against antisemitic, genocidal-pieces-of-shit-government-sponsored-propagandist-anti-media-serial-lying-motherfucking murderers … 

Your "disheartened" reaction is misguided, misplaced and without deference to the realities of what horrors come from governments whose powers are derived from hateful, knuckle-draggers who need scapegoats to blame for their pathetic, self-pitying arguments with reality!

Do you, in retrospect, feel disheartened by the Jews who revolted against Nazis in the Warsaw Ghetto uprising?

Have I made myself clear?

Under the equal access code if a school has any after school or before school extra curricular activities or clubs at all it has to allow a Christian club and can’t prohibit religious expression or advocacy during them.

Feel free to post that legal citation. your interpretation seems to be wrong. what it says is that a group can be formed that is specific to one entity or another but it can NOT use public funds as its source to maintain that group. as i have cut and pasted this school has a christian group for those who believe in Jesus. but the difference is that it has ADVISERS. Which means those are staff from the school that VOLUNTEER to monitor the groups behavior and statement of purpose. 

 A school under equal access has to choices, allow all clubs and all expression including religious or permit none at all.

not correct, it can determine if the group can be monitored with an advisor or not based on its mission statement. if it can not then the school can not permit it to meet on public grounds if that groups interaction interferes with other students. 

Christians and their expressions can’t be excluded before or after school. 

nor can other groups either. but they can only be voluntary in nature if held on school grounds.

One additional point … mostly based upon common sense … in life, as in the laws of physics, for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction …

If one does not wish to get his ass kicked by a "left-wing resistance" element …

… one should abstain from marching with swastikas and torches while chanting "Jews will not replace us!"

Only the biggest damned fools believe that such assholes should deliver that kind of message unchallenged.

? Strange Fruit is a protest song about racist murders of blacks which is exactly what NFL players kneeling is all about...

I suspect that's one song which RWNJs have studiously avoided hearing.

It's funny too that they're denying the racist meaning here despite the obvious contextual reference about standing vs kneeling.

Dodge County School Board member Shirley Ikedionwu posted a scathing message on Facebook calling the shirts “politically divisive.”

I have to agree.

Standing for the flag is a hot-button political issue right this minute. It shouldn't be, and it's not the cheerleaders' fault that it is. At any other time in our history, it wouldn't have been something you'd even think would need to be said, and that's because people haven't been refusing to do it before the way they are doing it now. The cheerleaders and their sponsors know that or they wouldn't have put it on the t-shirt.

Second, it looks like it's a public school, and you're putting a very religious message on the shirt. That probably violates our current jurisprudence on the Establishment Clause.

Any adults involved must surely have known these facts when they were designing a shirt. I expect most people in the area who might potentially buy any shirt probably support the messages on the shirt, but there is likely some minority of people that wouldn't. To be clear, I support both messages, but if you want to stay uncontroversial AND sell as many shirts as possible, why not just sell something everyone can agree on that doesn't potentially violate the Constitution?

It could even be patriotic like "we love America" or something. Or how about "be nice."

Second, it looks like it's a public school, and you're putting a very religious message on the shirt. That probably violates our current jurisprudence on the Establishment Clause.

Yep.   It's a rather blatant violation.

You obviously know nothing about SCOTUS precedent in this area.

It’s called the equal access clause from the 1980’s

If the cheerleaders are a club, you might be right. Most cheer squads I have seen are technically either a school class or a school team. Even then, I assume the cheerleaders would be performing at school events (like games) so they probably couldn't wear or sell the shirts there.

So when a cheerleader wants to put a crescent moon or a Baphomet on t-shirts and start selling those, you'll be all for it, yes?

I'll bet 

We do. It’s called the equal access clause from the 1980’s.  

Apparently you don't! The equal access clause requires secondary schools to provide equal access to extracurricular student clubs. 

So when a cheerleader wants to put a crescent moon or a Baphomet on t-shirts and start selling those, you'll be all for it, yes?

A good point. Better to stick to something less volatile, although that is getting increasingly difficult these days. It seems someone can find something offensive in nearly anything. 

It's led by school employees, and therefore can't be religious in nature.

And cheerleading is exactly that.

Not quite. Cheerleading is often affiliated with organized school sporting events and often has a school coach to train cheer squads. Big difference from an independent club.

Damn sure wouldn't be whining about it.

Would you deem Cheerleaders gone wild

too extreme ?

I Remember, when mu favorite little perky cheerleader went wild,

Shit, we invaded Afghanistan AND IRAQ  !

oh those naughty cheerliters

they should have been in COURTS

So when the Dodge County High School cheerleaders started selling T-shirts that read, “In Dodge County, we stand for the flag, kneel for the cross,” nobody thought it would cause a controversy.

The message is one of racism justified by religiosity … only the willingly blinded and duped and the uninformed … do not see the insidious innuendo, allusion and implication that black NFL players who protest the killing of their unarmed fellow-blacks … are also "anti-Christ"!

The white-resentment base of The Great White Hope, Donald Trump, will play the ecclesiastical-masturbation card endlessly in order to blame their own shortcomings, frustrations, disappointments and stoked fears on minorities, immigrants and all those they see as "the others."

I think you're reading a lot more into the shirt than is printed on it.

I think you're reading a lot more into the shirt than is printed on it.

And you are failing to read between the lines.

The message is one of racism justified by religiosity … only the willingly blinded and duped and the uninformed … do not see the insidious innuendo, allusion and implication that black NFL players who protest the killing of their unarmed fellow-blacks … are also "anti-Christ"!

Bingo.

Meh, let them wear those shirts to public schools. deleted

Clinical proof + sarcasm = deletion.

conservatives get 10x as much deleted for no value, off topic, and sweeping generalizations than liberals do on our own seeds here.

Then don't post no value, off topic, or sweeping generalizations. Problem solved.

conservatives get 10x as much deleted for no value, off topic, and sweeping generalizations than liberals do

...says one of the most prolific comment flaggers on this forum. go figure.

The probe is that to us as conservatives they are of value and are not sweeping generalizations.  Nor are they off topic unless the seeder calls it and yet conservatives have had our own posts on our own seeds deleted as off topic by higher ups.  

Only in your mind then. Because if they are deleted for whatever reason, clearly it was a violation of some kind regardless of whether you thought so or not.

Naturally. Being petty, vindictive, and seeking revenge are some of the new teavangelical values.

On a normal day I give zero fuck about standing or kneeling.  But the blatant hypocrisy is too much.   Kneeling is more respectful than standing, so why the hell are some people so bent when fricken football players kneel?  The only reason that makes any sense is that Trump pulled it out of his ass, another way to go after blacks (he loves enemies), making a story out of nothing.  

ps, those tshirts don't belong in a pubic schools with religion part of it.  But they do highlight the absurdity of the NFL clusterfuck.

Kneeling is more respectful than standing, so why the hell are some people so bent when fricken football players kneel?

Because people who had been sitting are being asked to stand. It's very much like standing at attention or saluting. In a stadium, there isn't room to kneel anyway.

It's not terribly complicated. Obviously kneeling, in and of itself, is not disrespectful. But any time you are asked to perform a specific act to show respect, if you do something else, it's a sign of disrespect. If you're asked to remain silent and you decide to talk, it's disrespectful. If you are asked to stand and you kneel or raise your fist, it's disrespectful.

If you are asked to stand and you kneel or raise your fist, it's disrespectful.

That's an absurd claim particularly given the specifics of the context for these NFL protests.

Oh, horseshit.  If kneeling is a respectful position, then the only reason some are getting worked up about it is because Trump wants them to. Otherwise it would have just died down.   Why do I get the feeling if someone tried to make you do something stupid just because they wanted to make it a rule to please Trump (insert Obama), you would feel differently?  This is a made up bullcrap issue by Trump to distract from bad pr.   He likes going after minorities, and the NFL is the current pool of choice.

Never saw any flag kneeling going on at the military bases i was on or at sporting events until recently.

No one even knew who Trump was back then.

Foreshadowing perhaps .... /S

That's an absurd claim particularly given the specifics of the context for these NFL protests.

You don't make complete arguments. You claim it's absurd without evidence. You cite to context without defining it. Worthless comment.

The context of the protests is that the players are kneeling in protest because they can't bring themselves to stand respectfully. They are intentionally being disrespectful by kneeling. This is not my interpretation. It's their own words.

If kneeling is a respectful position, then the only reason some are getting worked up about it is because Trump wants them to.

There's no evidence for that. In fact, there is plenty of evidence to the contrary. The kneeling was controversial before Trump said anything. And as has been explained, the kneeling in this context is intended to be disrespectful. The players have said so.

This is a made up bullcrap issue by Trump

Trump didn't make up anything. The players did it all on their own. No one forced them to kneel during the national anthem. And it's just too bad if that pisses people off who are forced to see it.

Oh you see that is where you are wrong.   Everything bad (perceived or otherwise) is Trumps fault.   I stubbed my toe this morning ...... damn that Trump!!

Oh you see that is where you are wrong.   Everything bad (perceived or otherwise) is Trumps fault.   I stubbed my toe this morning ...... damn that Trump!!

gosh.. that reminds me of when Obama was president... everything bad was his fault in the eyes of the conservative minded.... now the pendulum has swung back around i suppose..

Well jeepers .... much of that sounds like a sweeping generalization.  

I for one didn't agree with Obama much but never once did i piss and moan about him like many on the left are now on Trump.   Not even close.

Well jeepers .... much of that sounds like a sweeping generalization.   I for one didn't agree with Obama much but never once did i piss and moan about him like many on the left are now on Trump.   Not even close.

well jeepers .... are you stating that the statement isn't true ? are you saying that many of the conservative minded didn't blame Obama for everything much in the same way that the "left" is doing to Trump now ?

Exactly because its true.   The left on the other hand is CLEARLY having a collective melt down over anything Trump.   Still pissed off their crowned queen Clinton, who they already had in the whitehouse, didn't win.

TDS is a real thing.   ODS not so much.

Golly, thats is a bitch for you i suppose

Exactly because its true.   The left on the other hand is CLEARLY having a collective melt down over anything Trump.   Still pissed off their crowned queen Clinton, who they already had in the whitehouse, didn't win.

TDS is a real thing.   ODS not so much.

Golly, thats is a bitch for you i suppose

ROFL ! so the conservative minded didn't have a meltdown over anything Obama  ?   the conservative minded loves revisionist history apparently .. so let's see if ODS was "serious" or not, shall we ??

The university said in a statement Wednesday that the gathering at the student union began late Tuesday night with about 30 to 40 students, but grew within 20 minutes as word spread. Some students chanted political slogans while others used derogatory racial statements and profanity, the statement said.

oregonlive

wait.. what ?? clearly... not a meltdown when using derogatory racial statements ( and this couldn't be ODS since you claimed it wasn't real ), right ? of course not !

He uses too many big words, like “allegedly”:  Alisyn Camerota filling in on  Fox & Friends ,  on the president’s speech after the so-called “Underwear Bomber” attempted to bomb an airplane on Christmas Day, 2009: “You rarely see him getting fired up, but in this instance the use of the term ‘allegedly,’ to your point, that’s Harvard Law School talking, that’s not commander-in-chief talking. So he needs to you know change his, some would say, rhetoric.”

oh clearly... not a meltdown over the President nor any indication of ODS ( which you claim to not be real, right ? )

He uses ‘chintzy’ paperclips:  Don’t judge a piece of legislation by its cover, the gang at  Fox & Friends  suggested; judge it by its paperclip. Or, at least, that’s how they  examined  the president’s September jobs bill after he used a “chintzy clip” to hold it together.  

seriously ? sounds like ODS to me.. but as you stated that couldn't be the case because you stated ODS wasn't real , right ?

both of the above quotations from:  rollingstone

now this is great - you'll love this since you think ODS isn't real ...

Defenders of President Donald Trump are inundating Twitter with caustic attacks on former President Barack Obama over the federal government’s response to Hurricane Katrina in 2005 – three years and six months before Obama took office. The posts appear to be responses to criticism of Trump’s visit to Texas on Tuesday in the wake of devastating flooding in Houston following Tropical Storm Harvey. Many claim that Obama was golfing when Hurricane Katrina slammed into New Orleans in August 2005, killing 1,245 people across the Gulf Coast.

wow really ? let's have this supposedly fake ODS to the point that we will blame Obama for things that happened almost 3 years before he took office ! ... yet these are Trump supporters ! no wonder they thought America was so terrible ... they couldn't figure out who the president was in 2005 and just blamed Obama .... oh wait.. you said ODS isn't real ... care to explain this one Sparty On ?

When people criticized Donald Trump’s behavior before and during Hurricane Harvey— fawning over its size while “thanking” (?) flood victims ,  bellowing about the “turnout” while standing atop a fire truck ,  pardoning a famously racist sheriff for ratings , and, of course,  bitching about the media —his supporters bolted to the Obama well to remind the Dems about how badly Obama bungled his response to Hurricane Katrina.

avclub

oh even better... they were trying to defend their President Trump whom they are enamored with by displaying their non-existent ODS which still affects them even when Obama is out of the office ... i'm sure you can explain this right, Sparty On ?

oh wait.. here's more !

In Las Vegas, a small business owner  fired 22 of his 114 employees because Obama was elected and "elections have consequences." The owner told a local radio station he needed to build up a "nest egg" because of "taxes and regulations" Obama would instate. (CBS Local)

yes... he must not have ODS ... right... ( do i need a /s tag ? )

An  open letter  on the conservative  Free Republic  apologizes to the Queen of England for "that little misunderstanding we had 236 years ago," and asks the United Kingdom to please " forgive us and take us back ." (Free Republic, Gawker)

what ?! seriously ? the conservative minded asked the Queen of England to take them back ?! wow... what do you call this if it isn't ODS ?

Conservative radio talk show host  Neal Boortz reportedly sarcastically congratulated  a series of bad people for doing bad things throughout history, including Adolf Hitler, serial killer Ted Bundy, terrorist group Al-Qaeda and then... President Obama. (Media Matters)

now wait a minute.. hold up... i'm told that only Trump has been compared to Hitler ... well.. looks like that was wrong too ... looks like the conservative minded were already comparing Presidents to Hitler .... this isn't ODS right ?

In a post on its website, the  Cincinnati Tea Party  says America was born in 1776 and died Nov. 6, 2012. The death, the group wrote, was  ruled a suicide : "RIP America." (Cincinnati Tea Party, Huffington Post)

wow... dramatic much ? this isn't ODS, right ?

all the above quotations came from:  usnews

Oh, nice swing and a miss!  Got to hand it to you--nice deflection

oh swing and a miss for you ! it's the truth - pendulum has swung back around ... please see above posts for numerous examples .. maybe you can explain all of them away ?  

Trump didn't make up anything. The players did it all on their own. No one forced them to kneel during the national anthem. And it's just too bad if that pisses people off who are forced to see it.

You know, for a group of people who say they are for 'liberty and freedom', there sure are a lot of asinine rules they like to force on everybody.  The more we see this fake concern about protocol in a fricking football game, the more the hypocrisy of conservatives hits the light.  They continue to try to force everybody to do it all 'their way',  while at the same time they ignore real, important, unpatriotic and ungodly things coming from within.  And then they whine about how persecuted they are when people resist their attempts to control.  I don't want to take any orders from a group led by the most amoral narcissistic asshole in the country, somebody who denigrates this country in front of the world and breaks most of the commandments.

Lol keep spinning baby, keep spinning!

Lol keep spinning baby, keep spinning!

it must be a bitch to be proven wrong and realize my statement was correct:

 the pendulum has swung back around

looks like TDS is as real as ODS - and since you seem to be enamored with the current President and ignoring all the evidence presented, it seems likely you might be afflicted. 

Keep spinning baby, keep spinning!

Keep spinning baby, keep spinning!

keep denying facts and dig that hole even deeper  

What does any of this have to do with the topic of the seeded article.  I had no idea the shirts had obama vs Trump stuff written on them....

i highly suggest you go up the thread to see where this topic started and then criticize those posters as well - unless you want to be biased ? But, just in case you can't connect dots - those shirts talked about standing for the flag and not kneeling, which is a reference to NFL protests which Trump inserted himself into, so it looks like this isn't a large leap for anyone paying attention to events in the USA, especially for "patriots" who claim to keep tabs on this sort of thing, right ?

Stand for the flag and kneel for the cross. Which of course no real American is ever required to do either.

So silly. No one is trying to require anyone to do anything.

They can save it for private xtian madrasas and keep it out of the secular taxpayers domain.

Stand for the flag? Sure, that makes sense to me. Kneel to a bronze age torture device? Nope, ain't happening for me. If others want to go ahead and knock yourselves out.

One can be patriotic without being superstitious.

If so, what do you consider the difference to be?

One is religious promotion, the other is not.

E.A  Every Dog  has " Religion " in Mind when it goes about marking its territory, only the base ignorance limits one to comprehend what the word " Re Ligion " means!

Nationalism raising its ugly head.

As a public school teacher I have been dying to say something about this issue. 

Cheerleading is paid for by gov dollars. Extras are not. Hence the fund raising. But that still makes it a Public School activity.

The law and Constitution is very clear about this. At a public school, no religion is supposed to be endorsed. The flag part of the T shirt is fine. The cross part is not. 

So let me put it to you all in another way: 

How good would you all be if the T shirt had said:

"In Dearborn, we stand for the flag, bow to Allah".

????

I mean can we all be honest about this?

This is a slippery slope, legally speaking.

That is why this T shirt is unacceptable. 

The law and Constitution is very clear about this. At a public school, no religion is supposed to be endorsed. The flag part of the T shirt is fine. The cross part is not. 

seems to be quite correct to me   i'm not sure why some people don't understand this and don't understand that the cross is a religious symbol .

How good would you all be if the T shirt had said: "In Dearborn, we stand for the flag, bow to Allah".

oh i see many on here that would be screaming " holy " terror if that were the case !

Just another in the never ending assaults on the 1st amendment by some xtian reconstructionists, using their children as shields.

I don't take it that way. I honestly think they don't see the bigger implications. 

probably they just thought they had a shirt that they could sell and raise much needed money  

I'm sure that was the reasoning. But we must be vigilant about setting standards that can be used in ways that were unexpected. 

Religion has no place in a public school for a reason. I just showed you one, that many would be offended by, but would probably be a big seller in Dearborn. 

Now that is freedom of speech, since the school was not endorsing anything. All kids are allowed to express themselves, so long as the school has nothing to do with it. 

How can they? The 2nd coming has been on their any minute now event horizon for 2000+ years.

Exactly!

Almost 50 years ago we risked getting expelled for hair touching our collars or having an American flag on our clothing.

When I went to school, the only messages on shirts were for music groups.

That or getting something airbrushed on a shirt during vacation.

Also, (playing devils advocate here), this is a county in my state, I did a little digging because I am not familiar with the county (the "major" city thats there, but not the county). The whole county has a population of about 21K residents, the "major" city/town in that county has a population of about 5K residents. I am assuming that since this seems to be a little town in rural Georgia, they are probably a very tight knit community, where everyone knows everyone and the only major thing going on there is 'Friday night lights' LOL. They probably assumed that the shirts would be fine to sell in their community because everyone would want one. Another thing, this county and town is nowhere close to metro Atlanta, it really is in the middle of Ga nowhere LOL

They probably assumed that the shirts would be fine to sell in their community because everyone would want one.

Apparently they didn't realize that some black folks still live in the county, including one who's on the school board.

This is like selling a shirt for football team using crosses as goalposts

This is like selling a shirt for football team using crosses as goalposts

Or, paint the kids Red, White & Blue and fund raise with these .

Same message as the t-shirts but without hiding behind the shirts wink and a nod, dog whistling smugness.

Looks more like that should read "Jesus is my cross-eyed quarterback"...

nice sandal cleats

Lol, seriously one of the dumbest things I have ever seen. 

the key word is as you stated "be honest".

i do so appreciate your comment. because as you can see there are people who just dont want to be honest about the facts. and so your example is perfect.  and the response from those here that you follow day in and day out would be exactly the opposite. 

so i do appreciate that you gave, i am sure excellent years of service to our children.  and yet must be a bit disappointed of those who have posted that seem disconnected to basic civics on this specific topic, thanks again. 

Well said Perrie. Now, try explaining that to Heartland American.

So out of curiosity I looked at who voted me up and saw nada a conservative. So I am asking the conservatives, are you OK with: 

"In Dearborn, we stand for the flag, bow to Allah".

This is the crux of the whole issue. And if you can't say "Yes" to that, then you can't say 'Yes" to the other. This does not make you a bigot, but just shows the slippery slop, Constitutional wise of the whole situation. 

This is the crux of the whole issue. And if you can't say "Yes" to that, then you can't say 'Yes" to the other. This does not make you a bigot, but just shows the slippery slop, Constitutional wise of the whole situation. 

it's a very uncomfortable truth and equates the two religions, puts them on equal grounds which is hard for some people to deal with, some people revere their religion so much they can't put it on the same level as other religions - it must be above, their religion "must" be better than all others so it should get "exceptions" since it is the only "truth".

Muva,

Thank you for answering. So I guess your answer would be yes to my question. You are OK with:

"In Dearborn, we stand for the flag, bow to Allah".

Which is OK, given that both faiths are given parity. 

If it was a private school, I would have no issue. But public schools are part of the state, and that is why the issue. Personally, I think that all faiths should be kept out of public schools, not because I have an agenda against religion, but because I feel that it is not the place for it. I saw too many of my students who were in minority religions ( mostly Jehovah Witnesses), made very uncomfortable simple events like birthdays, that I could feel their discomfort. But birthdays are not covered by the Constitution.

But again, thank you for being taking the time to comment. I respect that. 

The constitution does NOT say separation Church and state

But the Founding Fathers and the SCOTUS do say it and the Establishment Clause is the heart of separation of church and state.

I can see why the left uses the separation of church and state a bludgeon to beat their political opponents with.

If said opponents would stop trying to violate the separation of church and state, there would be no problem.

That is a far cry form selling a T shirt with a religious symbol on it.

A T-shirt with religious symbolism being sold by a public school organization is certainly problematic as far as separation goes.

I truly wonder if the article was about the shirt you mentioned would have put up the same fuss...

Parents have complained about their kids being taught about Islam in the context of teaching the history of the Middle East.

Parents have complained about their kids being taught Arabic numerals, with no idea that those are just the same numbers we all use.

Yes, it would have kicked up the same fuss.

And maybe we shouldn't decide whether or not to enforce our laws based on whether students who are conditioned to obey adults are bothered when those same adults break the law.

So breaking the law was not what I was referring to.

You've defended it in other comments, basically saying "as long as the students don't mind".

But back to your question, of course there would be a fuss kicked up, if a public school were to sell t-shirts saying "We kneel for Allah".  There has already been a fuss kicked up over much less.  There are parents who don't want public schools to even discuss the influence Islam has had on the development of the history and culture of the Middle East.  Those same parents are the ones who complain about "God not being allowed in schools."  They want their religion promoted by tax dollars, and if they can't have that, they don't even want to acknowledge the existence of other religions.

You would be hard-pressed to find anybody in Dodge County, Georgia who does not stand for the national anthem or take a knee to pray.

I VERY much doubt that. Go to a bar during an NFL game and see who does what.

More like snowflakes melting down over a shirt.

Funny you should say that. I remember back in high school a friend of mine made his own custom shirt. It had a picture of a palm up hand and a sitting Jesus on the edge and said under it "Underhand Jesus Toss". Well, after enough snowflakes took offense to it he was asked to remove his shirt, he refused saying "how is it offensive, no one even knows what it means" and was then told to leave for the day (huge punishment I know lol). 

The point being there are snowflakes all over the place.

If I wore a shirt of Trump actively sucking Putin's dick you would probably get upset. 

we have an insane person leading our country and people are worried about what t-shirts are not allowed in high schools

lol

As usual for this seeder, we're of course not getting the full story which would have told us that for this to have become a school board issue, these little "Christian" clique must have been trying to peddle these shirts on public school time, public school property or at public school events or use public school facilities or resources.  So, once again this is a case of "Christians" whining at being thwarted in yet another attempt to force their religious beliefs into the public sphere without regard for anyone's right in that sphere to not be molested by other people's religious beliefs.  One can just imagine their outrage if someone had tried this with a Muslim, Hindu or Jewish theme.  One more example of the dangers of the tyranny or a "majority" relgion (and this particular branch of a religion is only that in certain regions--where it's easier to get away with-- and not the country in general) and why we have constitutional protections against this kind of abuse. 

There are extremists with every religion, 9/11 is proof of that.  

As was slavery and the treatment of the First Americans in this country.

If you have no problem with someone walking around with a tee shirt that says.. " I kneel at the games, and I am proud to be an atheist", then you should have no problem with a shirt that says " I honor the flag and I am proud to be a christian".   This is a two way street. 

Funny that someone can still find the wrong way to go on a two-way street.  There should be no problem with either of those two scenarios being carried out by an individual.  But it seems that some people can just not understand (or refuse to) the peddling a religious (or anti-religious message for that matter) using public facilities or property or resources no matter at what public level is a violation of the the constitutional prohibition of "the establishment religion."  No activity that has even the whiff of public support for any religion can be permitted.  It's just that goddam simple but, of course, the zealots and fanatics will never stop pushing at the edges in the hopes of one day destroying that precious safeguard against becoming a dominant, government protected religious autocracy.  

Out of curiosity, in world history class, there is a chapter in the book all about the worlds religions. How do you feel about that? 

Jeebus, I've lost count of the  times I've said here and in other fora  that not only is an academic course comparing the history of religions a good idea, I think it should be compulsory as long as there's no effort to make one religion seem preferable to another and that none of the dark part of that history be avoided.  The obvious problem is, those conditions would never be met in this country with the attitude of most of the people who'd probably come forward to teach it.  That's really only a course the could be done properly at the university level where it's almost always an elective subject. 

T-Shirts Saying 'Stand For The Flag, Kneel For The Cross' Draw Protest At School.

I protest these protesters. Not because I care, but just jumpin on the bandwagon of protests.

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1 Kneeling protest

2 shirt protest against knelling

3 protesters protesting shirt

4 me protesting protesters protesting shirt

Yep now my head is spinning.....

I’m free now as the defense attorney wisely used one of her last challenges to excuse me

First, I tried to give ya a thumps up and got a damn error message WTF ?

Next.....the defense attorney wisely used one of her last challenges to excuse me...

LOL .. thanks for sharing ..... Funny shit dude !! (I'm still chucklin) thanks !

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Yeah my thumbs up just went thur !  lol

New shirt I have seen several times says "I love Jesus, but I like to drink"   (don't think a school is selling it)

New shirt I have seen several times says "I love Jesus, but I like to drink"   (don't think a school is selling it)