Burden is on Avenatti to show proof, or face consequences
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
Michael Avenatti, whose judgments have proved questionable so many times, may be right in demanding a thorough investigation of his client’s outrageous claims of multiple gang rapes participated in and witnessed by a young Brett Kavanaugh.
These claims, typical of Avenatti, seem so incredible on their face that even partisan Democratic senators have generally stayed away from them. Yet, if they are true, they are not only disqualifying for Judge Kavanaugh to become an associate justice of the Supreme Court, but they should result in criminal prosecutions of anyone and everyone who allegedly drugged young girls and subjected them to systematic gang rape on multiple occasions.
The affidavit laying out these allegations is so deeply flawed and so filled with gaps that it would be easy for any experienced cross-examiner to raise doubts about the credibility of the affiant. One critical question is why this young woman would repeatedly return to parties where she claims to have witnessed gang rapes of drugged women. Yet, since the charges are so serious, further investigation is warranted.
But there is one condition that should be imposed before an investigation is conducted: The accuser should have to waive her lawyer-client privilege with Avenatti so that investigators can determine how much of her affidavit and how many of her claims were originally her own, and how many, if any, may have been “improved upon” by her conversations with her highly partisan lawyer or others.
If she is telling the truth, she should have no reason for not waiving the privilege. If she is lying, then there is no privilege anyway, since the crime-fraud exception would take it outside of the privilege. She should be asked how she got in contact with Avenatti, who first introduced the term “gang rape” into the conversation, and whether she intended the information she conveyed to Avenatti to be made public.
Both Avenatti and his client should be questioned by the FBI as well as by Senate investigators. If Avenatti wants the truth to come out, let him place no barriers to fair inquiry.
So, the ball is now in the court of Avenatti and his client. Let her appear on television if he wants to try the case in the court of public opinion, but don’t allow her to hide behind privilege. Moreover, Avenatti has another option: He can demand a criminal investigation by local authorities in Maryland, because Maryland law has no statute of limitations for the kind of rape he and his client have accused Judge Kavanaugh of committing.
The current situation is untenable — for Kavanaugh, for his accusers, and for the American public. An accusation as serious as gang rape simply cannot be allowed to sit out there uninvestigated. Kavanaugh and his accuser are both entitled to a full investigation. If the investigation establishes that the accusations are true, there should be serious consequences for Kavanaugh. But if the investigation proves that the allegations are made up of whole cloth, or if Avenatti did not properly investigate them before making so serious an accusation, there should be consequences for both Avenatti and his client.
These allegations are simply too extreme to be left to the court of public opinion, where people believe what they want to believe and where puffery and wild, unsubstantiated accusations often serve as a substitute for proof.
So the burden is now on Avenatti: File a formal complaint with the Maryland authorities. Put your client on television and allow her to answer all questions about her accusations and your role in bringing them forward, and be prepared to pay the consequences if it turns out that you or your client have defamed a man innocent of these crimes.
Now that the Senate Judiciary Committee has voted to send the nomination to the floor of the Senate and to allow a week of further investigation, there is no excuse for not thoroughly, fully investigating this charge along with others. The public, Congress and law enforcement are entitled to know whether accusers are telling the truth or are committing perjury for partisan or other ideological reasons. The stakes are high. The resources for a thorough investigation are there. Let the process move forward for a fair resolution for all concerned.
Alan M. Dershowitz is the Felix Frankfurter Professor of Law, Emeritus, at Harvard Law School .
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Mike let's see what you got....file a complaint with Maryland authorities.
Anenatti is nothing more than a shyster sleaze ball ambulance chasing grandstander! I would not trust that guy to walk my dogs!
Yeah, that's what Michael Cohen thought, too, and look where he is now. [deleted]
This time he may finally put himself in legal jeopardy. BTW, tonight Laura Ingraham will have Avenatti's clients boyfriend on her show. It have a feeling it will be educational
I was actually thinking about that when I posted the above but I could not recall Allred's name.
Apparently he's a very skilled one.
I will not argue with you on that one.
If these claims were serious, wouldn't law enforcement be the first place they all should have gone? Who responds to a sexual assault or gang rape by sitting on their hands for 35 years and then hiring a political lawyer, and running to . . . the Senate ?
That shyster Avenatti Wanted a investigation, It would be funny if it came back to bite him in the ass, but I doubt it.
He is as crooked as Hillaryious Hillary, what's funny is there are some people that want him for President.
If that doesn't make you laugh I don't know what will.
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I have "no valued" this whole thread, since it had very little to do with the topic, and a lot to do with each other. This has to stop.
Thanks
Burden is on Avenatti to show proof
I would have to agree, either put up or shut up as they say.
I have to say that this is a demand that no Trump supporter should make, unless you like being called a hypocrite.
I have to go out on a limb and say that it is highly improbable that Luther28 is a Trump supporter...…...
So you take issue with the idea of an individual thinking for themselves and being able to see the flaws / dysfunction / dishonesty that lie on both sides of the aisle?
Never said he was, just that the demand would be very hypocritical coming from any Trump supporters.
Awww I see … thanks for the clarification
That "bothsiderism" is such an worn-out, weak and lazy trope. Can't you come up with anything else?
Always good to see you Atheist - you brighten the day... yet fail to understand that there are those that do not take part in group thinking, they formulate an opinion based on seeing all sides of an issue
No quarrel with that but it's just too easy (and, again, lazy) to look at an issue like this, dust your hands off and walk away because it's just too much trouble to dig down and make up one's mind. I'm not saying this Kavanaugh issue is a no-brainer but it also isn't that hard to make a judgment if one's really willing to weigh what we've been presented. If one thinks the way the Republicans handled the hearing last week was no different from the way the Democrats did or that the alarming display from Kavanaugh was just as compelling as Dr. Ford's testimony then I do, indeed, question the ability to discern anything.
Good question .. discussion and compromise are not seemingly practiced within the parties themselves - making it difficult to reach across the aisle .. 2010 midterms seemingly focused on dysfunction and obstruction, changed DC .. and not for the better..
Things have spiraled downward ever since ..
You lil bothsiderist you : ) Seriously though, it is quite scary that there is quite a distance to go before bottom can be reached .. yet government is (to some) the savior of the people .. all the while, 'our' elected officials are benefiting from the divide and obstruction..
I have always had faith in the up and coming young people - last week (not so) lil man and 5 friends registered to vote .. all seniors this year - before 'we' even got back to my truck the boys were heatedly discussing I-185 on the Montana ballot … sadly, I think partisanship is oozing into even the young people lives .. YAY! .. Us v Them...
I probably could have phrased it better.
I finally had to name my high horse .. Soapbox : ) I was accused of riding so often
I have done my best to instill a quest for knowledge and research .. look at all sides in order to be able to reach an informed decision .. I had a smile on my face as Hobo and I walked away from the debate... the seed I planted took root! He and I have read through all the pros and cons of the initiatives on the ballot .. I am proud that he is not held back from speaking his mind and suggesting that other embark on their own quest before making a decision.....
All I can do is provide the tools, I cannot do the thinking for them....
P.s... it has been so awesome to read your comments once again - I missed your wit with words! : )
and I should have just asked what you meant be your comment..
Good day Colour Me. Hope all is well up in the great Northwest for you and yours. Wet and rainy down here on the Southern border. Are you enjoying the three ring circus going on here as well?
Hello Ed .. so good to see you .. when I see you on a thread, seems like I am hours behind you... been rainy and a bit chilly here .. I cannot bitch at all, that is why the powers that be made dressing in layers a thing..
How are you feeling, wet and rainy slowing you down?
What a mess huh? .. seems like 'our' elected officials will stop at nothing to keep the divide in this nation alive and well..
Amen!!!
Peace to you...
That is what I love about social media, the amount of folks who presume to know you.
I could not abide Mr. Trump long before it became fashionable (circa the mid- 70's), my comment in no way shows support for Mr. Trump, only disdain for another charlatan. No hypocrisy here.
Thank you, at least you made the correct presumption.
And you also made a correct presumption Tessy, but to put it into perspective I am for either side when they are correct, there just hasn't been very much of that of late.
This debacle going on in the Senate over Kavanaugh is a glaring example of both sides having their heads up their collective arses. Neither party as they stand today has the electorate in mind, only themselves and their masters.
I take no issue in someone thinking for themselves
Well since you granted me the right to think for myself, I will give a bit, perhaps both parties are not quite equally bad, they are just both bad.
I always read your comments luther28 … there was no need to presume : )
Just an FYI, if ya do not pick the chosen side, you can never be one of the popular kids .. : )
Have a great day luther28
Just an FYI, if ya do not pick the chosen side, you can never be one of the popular kids .. : )
So it would seem, but the popular kids always seemed to turn out as the resident putzs so why would I change my stripes at this late date. If you take a peek at my profile, you will see I am limited to only two friends (I think they took pity on me) so a popular kid I am not.
No I just try to look at both sides of the equation, glean what's best and form my opinion from that without dragging emotion into the mix.
: ) .. that is why I like dogs ..
Tis the only way to make an informed decision .. but not always popular, many never take the time to educate themselves .. : (………………………..
Apart from the sworn affidavit which Swetnick submitted a week ago what exactly do you expect her to do?
worn affidavit which Swetnick submitted a week ago what exactly do you expect her to do?
Not threaten to kill a family for one.
But that's just me.
My suggestion was aimed at Mr. Avenatti not Ms. Swetnick. She seems to have already done Her part.
Not true, but untruths rarely dissuade right wingers on forums like this.
Mark Judge ’s former girlfriend is ready to talk to FBI and ...
“Ms. Rasor’s statement that Mark Judge told her about his participation in a gang rape when he was in high school is powerful corroborating evidence,” the senior Democratic aide to the ...
I expect we'll hear that the FBI won't be getting around to talk to Ms. Rasor either.
So to paraphrase Dershowitz, "Let's not focus on the charge of a potential supreme court justice nominee being involved in gang rapes in his late teens, we need to find out whether this woman wanted that accusation made public or not! We need to find out what the attorney knew and when did he know it, that's the real story here!".
We need to focus on whether the allegation was true or not, and who breached Ms. Fords confidentiality.
Yeah, let's pursue that red herring to the limit so we can ignore Dr. Ford's wishes that there be a thorough investigation of her account. You people don't even try not to be transparent.
It is getting a through investigation, but the leftists won't be satisfied. There will outrage when he is cleared of all wrongdoing.
Thorough investigation, my ass. We learned as of yesterday (3 days into the week allotted for this "investigation") that not only has Dr. Ford not even been contacted by the FBI but a witness to Kavanaugh's frequent drunkenness at Yale has made multiple attempts to contact the FBI to give his account that shows Kavanaugh was lying (as we all saw last Thu) about his drinking. He was put on the typical bureaucratic goose chase and was finally left with just leaving a message on the FBI tip line which someone might notice and respond to in a month or two. This "investigation" is being "managed" (which is to say strangled) from the Office of White House Counsel (McGahn). IOW, it's a already a sham.
No, the White House has no control over the FBI or this thorough investigation. They've already talked to Ramirez and left town. The investigation was agreed to based on a limited time frame and the original accusers. No more fishing expeditions. The third accuser appears to have not much credibility.
Need a source for your Ramirez claim. As for those "legal disputes," one was dropped in less than a month. None, repeat NONE, resulted in any action or judgment against her. But I am amazed that supporters of "president" Scumbag would want to wade into the waters of legal entanglements. That water is full of crocodiles for them.
Are you looking for a source for that? We're eagerly awaiting it.
What is it with you "folks" and your inability to keep up with news.........
Might want to let Greg know. He didn't seem to be able to come up with it. But, i'm sure he appreciates you "sorta" bailing him out. And thanks for the info. That's all I asked for.
The woman who allegedly went to high school rape parties as a college student is the exact type of person one would expect to make such outlandish accusations. She's been accused of threatening an ex boyfriend and his family, is incredibly litigious and has been fired for dishonesty.
Sounds like a typical liberal woman.
I'm always a bit in awe of how deft the rightwing is at inventing new lies for any and all occasions.
I find it rather funny that some are using the "rape parties" as some character attack on the girls who might have shown up (though I rather doubt they were ever billed as rape parties, at least not to the girls invited) but don't seem to think that reflects poorly on the young men in attendance. Apparently to these self righteous moral conservative republicans she's not believable because she knowingly attended "rape parties" but all those young men who were lining up to rape the drunk girls are the innocent sheep that need to be defended. It's either that or she's not believable because those rape parties never happened and thus she's not the lying slut they're claiming she is. They can't have it both ways.
I find it funny how much trouble some have reading. Here's a hint, no one, outside the moonbat wing of progressive crazies, believes this story. It's why Senate Democrats are essentially ignoring these claims. If, at this point, you are still taking her claims seriously, you might want to take some deep breaths and wonder where you went wrong in life.
On it's face, it's almost impossible to believe a woman in college attends multiple rape parties thrown by high school boys. I mean, why would anyone keep going to high school parties as an adult where kids are getting raped? We are supposed to believe in a massive rape conspiracy where rapists and their multiple victims conspired to keep quiet for decades until a woman accused of sexual harassment and threatening a baby comes forward. Sure.
And yes, if you keep voluntarily returning to parties as an adult where girls are getting repeatedly raped and do or say nothing about it, it does say something about your character.
I've heard this defense before and its really sad that I have to explain this to you. You see, high school parties where hormonal guys are hoping to get drunk and get laid aren't usually promoted as "Hey girl, you going over to Jimmy's house this next weekend? A bunch of us guys are hoping to get some of you girls drunk and maybe run a train on you if you pass out, wanna come?"...
I heard of many drunken parties happening while I was in high school, I wasn't allowed to attend any of them for fear I'd embarrass my pastor father, but I often heard the stories the next week of who got too drunk, who hooked up with who and occasionally there were stories of some of the guys sexually assaulting some drunk girls, though at the time it was always referred to as somehow consensual, but obviously fingering a girl who passed out shouldn't ever be thought of as consensual, but I heard tales many times, some even with accompanying Polaroids of the passed out person in question.
And while I wouldn't try to make any of those accusations against those who told me the tales and showed me the photos because I wasn't an eye witness, but If I found out some of those perpetrators were potentially up for a supreme court nomination I'd sure as heck be calling all my old classmates trying to find someone who was there that could stop such a travesty.
This is like saying:
"Any girl who goes to the drive-in movies with a boy is hoping to get intimate because that's what many young couples do there. Thus no girl can claim it wasn't consensual since showing up at all is considered consent..."
"Any girl going to a high school party thrown by high school boys is hoping to get sexually assaulted because that's what has happened at many parties. Thus no girl can claim it wasn't consensual since showing up at all is considered consent..."
Its a shameful defense of sexual predators all in the name of just ignoring bad behavior because "boys will be boys".
Wow, Avenatti sure has the trumpsters scared shitless judging from how he seems to be today's rightwing enemy no. 1.
We're not a bit scared or worried, because we know how this will be played out. But the ones bringing these bogus accusations should be collectively ashamed of themselves. The Democrats are going have hell to pay in the midterms, for their participation in this partisan shitshow.
Oh, like you were all predicting a quick, bump-free confirmation a few weeks ago? Thanks again for presenting yourself so eagerly for ridicule.
No one expected the hail Mary that the Dems planned........prolly not even some Dems............
If this had been planned no one would have waited until just before the committee planned to vote him up. It would have been much better for this to have come up back in July so a full and careful investigation could have been done and Kavanaugh's scummy-beyond-words past exposed and documented.
I hope that this new-found romance between rightwingers and Dershowitz means that they now embrace everything he stands for:
In for a penny, in for a pound; as the saying goes.