BREAKING : CHAUVIN JURY REACHES VERDICT
the jury has reached a verdict. it will be read in about 2 hours
Joe Biden told reporters a few minutes ago that the evidence against Derek Chauvin is "overwhelming" and he is praying that the jury reaches the right verdict.
The president also said he would not have made that comment in public until the jury was sequestered, which happened yesterday afternoon.
Biden spoke by telephone to George Floyd's family last night.
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Biden is right. The evidence is overwhelming. The main defense of Chauvin is that he, a cop for about two decades, was distracted and fearful of the crowd gathered on the sidewalk.
Whether the president is right or wrong in his feelings of Chauvin's guilt or innocence, he is making the same potential mistakes Maxine Waters did. The trial is still underway and there is still the presumption of innocence until proven guilty according to our legal system. He and Waters should have kept their mouths shut until after the trial. Actions like theirs just serve to agitate people even further.
His body language proved otherwise. When you are fearful, you don't keep your hands in your pockets.
Another idiotic president butting in where he doesn't belong.
What the hell does he think is going to happen if the jury comes back with anything other than guilty verdict on all accounts? He might as well be placing targets on each and every last one of their heads.
No matter what the verdict is there will be riots; because that is what they do; but Biden adding his two cents won't help anything.
I get the feeling that a guilty verdict was preordained and assured before the trial even started. The trial is only a formality.The liberal left will not accept any thing less no matter evidence was presented.
It can get rough subduing a noncomplying suspect and if a suspect died during a one minute struggle while the cops were trying to cuff him it might be believable that he had preexisting conditions but not nine minutes with three other cops standing there twiddling their thumbs. The problem with our Legal System is it only takes one Idiot Juror to screw everything up.
Okay, I was wrong to throw in the barb about the liberal left. My apologies to all. I agree with you about the preponderance of evidence part.
You asked if justice is served given the evidence? Certainly as long as it is in a fair and legal manner, however, potentially inflammatory comments by Waters and the president can affect getting a fair outcome especially since the trial is not even over yet. Is that justice?
Well, I'm sorry you feel that way. You have a good day now.
Agreed.
So... The President has to remain silent but Tucker Carlson has 1st amendment rights that must be respected?
did you just compare Tucker Carlson to the President of the United States?
You believe a talk show host and the leader of the free world are equivalent positions?
no, Tucker was definitely above 45
Do you imagine you accomplish anything positive (other than making me laugh) by asking pointless questions with painfully obvious answers?
.
Well, Tucker is a mouthpiece for one tiny part of America. Pres Biden represents all of us. I would prefer all politicians keep their pie holes shut in cases like these until the verdict is read
While I trust the jury members to avoid all media like I'm sure they're instructed to do, they are probably more likely to see Tucker Carlson on TV accidentally than President Biden since he's on for an hour every day prime time. It only takes one juror to hang a jury.
Joe Biden is the President of the US. His words mean infinitely more than those of a talk show host. Pundits are supposed to offer opinions. Elected officials are supposed to let the system run it's course without sticking their fingers on the scales of justice.
There's a reason the trial Judge recognized that the politicians may have given Chauvin grounds for a mistrial, and didn't attack pundits for being pundits.
Let's note that on this we agree; but I would use 'substantially' rather than 'infinitely'.
We agree on one thing. Joe Biden is "infinitely" more important, powerful, and just a better man than than Tucker Carlson. He also has first amendment rights and can say anything he wants to. Wasn't that what you guys loved about Trump? That he had no filter?
If that is your measure of idiocy, then you must see all presidents as idiots.
What an asshole. I’m sorry, but elected officials - and particularly presidents - should not be declaring the guilt or innocence of people on trial. In a regular citizen, it is usually ignorant, but largely harmless. For a person in his position, it is completely irresponsible.
There are reasons that we have the legal processes that we do. If guilt or innocence were justly decided from afar, we would have been doing that. Shit like this undermines the already fragile faith people have in the judicial system. It also promotes the violence we will see after the verdict. A reponsible president would be advocating for the system, and calling on the American people to let the jury decide the issue and then respect their conclusion.
Normally my impulse in these matters is to say that any of these politicians who have graduated from law school should know better, but then I remember that Biden cheated his way through so law school and dismissed it as “much ado about nothing,” so I guess we shouldn’t be surprised.
Like Trump calling for execution of innocent teens?
I wasn't aware that he was a juror in the trial.
only in the court of public opinion , we are all members of that jury ....
Biden should not be convicting anyone. His public opinion holds a lot more weight to some unlike ours. He is only adding fuel to fire.
Was he on the jury? Was he the judge?
What incites? Cops killing unarmed citizens!
Were you exclaiming this point when we had 45 spurting out non stop about that which HE JUST DID NOT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT , and that was about ALL HE COMMENTED ON ! I would normally prefer pols kept their thoughts till trials are complete, but....after watching TOO MUCH of this trial, THERE WAS/IS NO other way to interpret WTF took place, but i'm "silly" that way, after WATCHING SOMEONE'S LIFE get EXTINGUISHED right before my OWN FCKN EYES, but hey, whatever blurred view you wish to see your 'truth' distorted through, is up to you, good luck with that....
No, be good if he didn't speak to convict a person as if he was.
<insert Jeopardy theme song here>
using Trump did it to excuse Biden...hillarious.
How soon they forget when Trump wanted five innocent teens executed.
When did President Trump call for the execution of five "innocent" teens?
Trump is now the gold standard for Presidents I guess. All the progressives think he's the role model to follow.
It probably is because he was the prior PotUS (freshly out of office) and that he was also an outrageous character who somehow still has strong support in the R party.
Once the Rs rid themselves of the Trump parasite and start healing from the infection, Trump will fade from concern and will be replaced with a new target.
In short, it does not surprise me a bit that Trump continues to appear when speaking of Biden or of presidential politics. Who, other than Trump, do you think should be compared?
Biden is not being compared to Trump, Trump's being cited as a justification and precedent for Biden. If Trump did something, it's now okay for Biden to do it.
Which under normal circumstances would be fine. But Trump, and the reaction to him, was not normal. The people now citing Trump as acceptable precedent spent the last 5 years claiming he was the worst President ever, a traitor, a psychopath etc...To turn around and now him use as a justification is like Brutus citing Caesar to justify his actions. If his critics actually meant what they said about Trump, he's the last person they would ever use to justify the actions of Biden or anyone else.
Either Trump was a normal President or he wasn't. The same progressives who hysterically demonized Trump are now doing their best to normalize him.
It is wrong to justify actions based on Trump.
He was atypical in a bad way. Regardless, it is never rational to do something simply because someone else did it (or similar).
as the bar drops ever lower
and lower.
Trump was President in 1989?
Where did you learn your history?
So what? DO you understand he wasn't President when the matter was adjudicated?
Imagine thinking people aren't allowed to have opinions on historical events.
How hard is this to understand? Biden is the President and offered his opinion on the evidence of a trial as it was happening. Got it?
Who knew I'd be lucky enough to see someone arguing real estate developers are the equivalent of the President of the USA in our justice system?
What a treat. This is what make the site worthwhile.
Was 45 NOT a real Estate Developer ? was he also KNOT tied to OUR potUS in our InJustice System...in some damn mannerism, that is not mannerly , or are we rewriting history Again ?
Well, he is now. Also, the jury was sequestered so they had no clue what he said anyway.
The truth is the president is expected to weigh in on topics such as this one. That is our modern world.
Saying that the evidence is overwhelming is really just stating the obvious, but it lets Floyd's family and the black and other non white people of Minneapolis know he is thinking of them.
I asked a friend of mine who was a street cop in Chicago for 30 years if it was proper to arrest someone for passing a counterfeit twenty dollar bill. Basically my friend just laughed. Thats how ludicrous it is.
Chauvin and the other cops justified their treatment of George Floyd that day by telling him, as he struggled, that he was being arrested for "forgery". This was a tragedy caused by police arrogance.
No. Not for ongoing trials. He took an oath to support and defend the Constitution. That Constitution talks about due process and trial by jury. Biden isn’t advocating that we respect any of that. He’s got it all figured out from watching CNN.
He now bears responsibility for any unrest that follows the verdict.
There are a multitude better ways to weigh in on topics such as this without undermining the jury.
If the jury comes back not guilty he is indeed undermining them.
The jury came back with GUILTY. So much for the undermining them theory.
The liberal loons, goons, punks, and thugs will riot regardless of the verdict
Yeah, but now they’ll have official support. The president said the case against this guy was “overwhelming,” so it must be true.
You're probably right the Celebration will likely be as bad as the Protest.
The cunt conservatives pissed on the floor and smeared their own shit on the walls of the US Capitol... Let me guess, they are patriots?
A PotUS should not weigh in on such matters. The office carries substantial influence; the words of the PotUS should focus on matters of the office. While PotUS, the individual holding the office should refrain from commenting as an ordinary citizen. There simply is no way that the public will distinguish words from the PotUS from words from the individual speaking as an ordinary person.
Waiting until the jury is sequestered is not enough. Biden should not weigh in on this at all.
I disagree. Why should a president, then, "weigh in" against "riots" when the people participating in these protests haven't been convicted of a crime yet?
What Chauvin did was clearly wrong, whether he is sent to prison or not. Biden didnt prejudice the jury because he waited to say something until they were sequestered.
This is a case against an individual. Contrast this with a PotUS weighing in on the principle of unnecessary force and promising to encourage all national law enforcement practices ensure the safety of both officers and those under arrest.
I am aware that he did not prejudice the jury. I intentionally and explicitly addressed that preemptively: "Waiting until the jury is sequestered is not enough. Biden should not weigh in on this at all."
If he would have waited until after the verdict and then said his opinion I wouldn't mind.
I still would because I do not think a PotUS should ever comment on what is taking place with a legal matter dealing with an individual.
It is one thing for the PotUS to single out individuals for positive recognition, but to weigh in on an individual legal case carries the influential power of the office. The words of the PotUS should address the concerns of 331+ million citizens, not on an individual on trial.
The reason behind my position is the influential power of a PotUS' words. I made the same comment about Trump with his reckless personal comments while PotUS; similarly with Obama. It is, IMO, an abuse of the power of the office to amplify the personal opinion of the individual who currently holds the most powerful office on the planet on a matter that is not in the purview of the Office — especially when it is focused on a single individual.
I understand. I just think worded correctly, it could be an opinion yet a little insignificant. We all know he is going to be asked about it and saying something like, I disagree with the outcome but we have to trust the legal system, or something along those lines. Depending on outcome of course.
verdict coming in this quickly means either convicted of all charges or at least 1 , or an aquittal..... and before anyone wants to start an argument about it , i mention one name , George Zimmerman , that was a slam dunk as well or was suppose to be.
I hate to say it but I am thinking one voted in his favor.
we shall see in about an hour or so. its in the jurys hands , not the court of public opinion.
Too late for that I think.
Hope we don't have another LA riot. Never know what a jury will do.
I have to say, I would hate to be on that jury.
I wonder how many will be contacted for book deals.
Guilty
Guilty on all counts!
I could have sworn one juror said no.
Verdict doesn’t make a lot of sense. How can he be guilty of all three charges for the one act?
Under Minnesota law ,
1) The Second Degree Unintentional Murder charge is what is more commonly known as “Felony Murder,” which is when a person is committing a felony and thereby causes the death of another person, without actually intending to kill anyone.
It’s hard to see this one because there is no underlying felony. He certainly wasn’t charged with one and I have seen no indication that the jury was tasked with determining whether or not he committed one. The killing itself does not count as the underlying felony.
2) Third Degree Murder is what is more commonly known as “Depraved Heart Murder.” In this case, without intending to kill anyone, he causes the death of another by committing an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind with no regard for human life.
With this charge, it’s sort of really really obvious that you’re doing something that could likely kill a person and you don’t care. Like a chaotic agent of death. That honestly doesn’t seem to have been the mindset of either the officer or his comrades. It doesn’t seem like they thought Floyd was in any danger of dying. However, it seems more reasonable than the Second Degree Murder Charge.
3) Second Degree Manslaughter means he caused the death through negligence that creates an unreasonable risk. This means he committed the acts on purpose, and knew they were risky, but wasn’t trying to kill anyone. The obviousness of deadly risk seems less for this charge.
This seems like the most accurate charge to me, but I think you can make an argument for either this one or the Third Degree charge.
Each of these charges describes a different kind of situation. It’s splitting hairs, but that’s what the law does. It’s not really logical to convict him of all three. I can easily see two of these convictions being thrown out.
One of the witnesses was a female EMT who was off duty out for a walk in the neighborhood. She told the cops that Floyd needed immediate medical attention. By completely disregarding her Chauvin tacitly acknowledged he was putting Floyd's life in jeopardy.
I think her testimony will turn out to have been important in the verdict.
I feel like it’s standard procedure (official or unofficial) for cops to try to ignore the people who approach them when making an arrest. Part of that impulse is reasonable. You need to be focused on doing your job. Also, a lot of cops are super defensive and don’t want people telling them how to do their job. I think I heard they had called for an official EMT, so I expect they were waiting for that assessment.
Even so, that doesn’t seem to rise above the manslaughter charge.
It doesn’t matter how offended we are by the act. Crimes are defined about as specifically as we can make them for a reason. Maybe you’d like to go to an Old Testament-type system where we just execute people for everything?
I didn’t put anything in your mouth.
Tacos I tend to agree with you.
At first (before I had learned more) I thought .. Murder.
After hearing a lot of the testimony I changed to thinking neglectful homicide. 3) Second Degree Manslaughter
Either way this cop screwed up royal. shakin head ... sad
Murder has a definition. It is - in most places - the unlawful killing of another with malice aforethought. “Malice aforethought” means the murderer meant to kill the victim. Other forms of killing that lack that intent are usually classified as lower degrees of “murder” or “manslaughter.”
The law almost always considers it worse if the killing was intentional. None of the three charges against Chauvin allege that he meant to kill Derek Floyd. In fact, every single one of them is defined as an unintentional killing. So then you get deep into the weeds about Chauvin’s level of intent.
Because? And therefore what?
Now we will just have to see what the sentencing holds.
In the poll I posted previously asking members for their votes for various possibilities that Chauvin would be convicted of, I had no idea that he could be convicted of all three.
However, remember that Yogi Berra wasn't wrong with "It's never over 'till it's over." The appeals will soon be filed.
I was just thinking that if he does end up being jailed they had better put him in an isolation situation because it's likely that his sentence of time will soon become a sentence of death.
No doubt about it IMO. One of the worst things is for a cop (or equivalent) to become an inmate.
The White Aryans in prison will forgive him for being a cop because he killed a black man.
Somehow I doubt that will be enough. I suspect that being in law enforcement is up there in the most unforgiveable sins to a prison population (along with being a 'rat' or a child molester.)
He will be in PC aka solitary where he will go mental or kill himself after six months.
All this drama for a worthless criminal POS, while the brazen murder of a little girl in Chicago goes unnoticed
.
But that's because,
That paints a police officer in a good light for trying to save that beautiful little girl.
Does Chauvin have this to look forward to, what this homeless guy endured?