Wisconsin Senate Republicans move school culture war bill forward

  

Category:  News & Politics

Via:  john-russell  •  2 months ago  •  106 comments

By:   Henry Redman, Wisconsin Examiner (Raw Story - Celebrating Years of Independent Journalism)

Wisconsin Senate Republicans move school culture war bill forward
Republicans on the Wisconsin Senate Committee on Education advanced a bill on Monday that would ban teaching certain topics about race and the harms of racism in schools, setting the bill up for a potential vote in the Senate when it returns in January. The advancement of the bill aimed at prohibiti...

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Rep. Chuck Wichgers speaks at a press conference introducing his bills banning the teaching of critical race theory in Wisconsin. (Screenshot | WisEye)

Republicans on the Wisconsin Senate Committee on Education advanced a bill on Monday that would ban teaching certain topics about race and the harms of racism in schools, setting the bill up for a potential vote in the Senate when it returns in January.

The advancement of the bill aimed at prohibiting the teaching of so-called critical race theory in schools is part of a national effort that Republicans in Wisconsin and across the country have made into a campaign issue.

Critical race theory — a graduate-school-level framework that states American institutions are shaped by racism — was a key issue in an attempted recall of several members of the Mequon-Thiensville school board. The recall attempt drew the donations and attention of high profile Republicans across the state, including gubernatorial candidate Rebecca Kleefisch.

Even though the recall attempt failed, Republicans in Wisconsin say they'll continue to focus on education.

"Supposed blue state Virginia elects a Republican governor that ran on Education," former Wisconsin Republican Party Chairman Andrew Hitt tweeted after Republican Glenn Youngkin, running on a platform that included opposition to critical race theory in schools, was elected earlier this month. "This is a winning issue for Republicans in 22. 'Education' [Gov. Tony Evers] should be hitting the panic button."

Senate Bill 411 was approved and recommended for concurrence with the Assembly version in a series of 4-3 party-line votes by the education committee on Monday. The bill's stated goal is to prevent students from being taught "that one race or sex is inherently superior to another race or sex and that an individual, by virtue of the individual's race or sex, bears responsibility for acts committed in the past by other individuals of the same race or sex."

Rep. Chuck Wichgers (R-Muskego), one of the bill's co-authors, said in testimony about the bill that it would ban the use of words and topics such as "critical self-reflection," "marginalized communities" and "racial prejudice."

The bill includes a provision that makes the state superintendent of schools withhold 10% of a district's state funding where a teacher is found to have violated the law. It also includes a requirement that districts post their entire curriculum online.

Democrats have countered by saying critical race theory isn't taught in schools but that limiting what can be taught will have a chilling effect on the teaching of U.S. history in classes — especially around topics such as slavery and the civil rights movement.

"There were several educators, [who] came to testify that talked about the fact that they were not teaching anything remotely close to critical race theory," Rep. LaKeshia Myers (D-Milwaukee), a former teacher, said when the bill passed the Assembly in September. "They talked about how if this was passed, they would feel uncomfortable, because you would be walking a tightrope and not knowing what you could say that could eventually get you in trouble and take money away from your district, which is problematic."

Sen. Chris Larson (D-Milwaukee) says he doesn't think the focus on critical race theory in Wisconsin schools will help Republicans win elections and will ultimately reflect poorly on the legislators who voted for the bill.

"It's part of a national effort that is just doing the latest iteration to keep the Lost Cause going," Larson, who sits on the education committee and voted against the bill's passage, says. "[It's] trying to paper over some of the more racist history ingrained in our country. History is going to find it's way out and ironically, those who try to cover up history are not viewed very fondly by those who study it in the future."

The attempt to ban critical race theory isn't the only culture war issue Wisconsin Republicans are focusing on in schools. On Sunday, a lawyer for the right wing law firm, the Wisconsin Institute for Law & Liberty, appeared on the WISN show "UpFront" to talk about a lawsuit filed against the Kettle Moraine School District over a student's ability to be referred to by a preferred gender identity in school without parental permission.

The lawsuit stems from an unidentified 12-year-old who identified as transgender and requested that teachers change the pronouns they used to identify the student.

WILL is suing the district, saying parents should have control over that decision. Luke Berg, the WILL lawyer, said the district's decision to allow students to express their true gender identity is unconstitutional.

"Schools have to defer to parents about major decisions involving their children," Berg said. "They normally do, yet they have carved out this one exception for gender identity transitions, and in our view that's unconstitutional. They need to defer to parents about this major decision. So the goal is ultimately for a court to say that parents have a constitutional right to make this decision, and that schools must defer to those decisions."

Earlier this year, Wisconsin and Republican states across the country passed laws that prohibited transgender women and girls from participating in youth, high school and collegiate sports. The Wisconsin bills were vetoed by Evers.

Larson says he thinks education is a major issue in Wisconsin, but not for the same reasons Republicans are pushing when they try to legislate how racism is taught or who can play women's basketball.

"I think if anybody's voting on education the first thing they're going to care about is that our schools are criminally underfunded and the money is being used to give huge tax breaks to businesses that don't need them or just being sat on," he says. "I think it's going to backfire as much as they think they've got something."

Wisconsin Examiner is part of States Newsroom, a network of news bureaus supported by grants and a coalition of donors as a 501c(3) public charity. Wisconsin Examiner maintains editorial independence. Contact Editor Ruth Conniff for questions: info@wisconsinexaminer.com. Follow Wisconsin Examiner on Facebook and Twitter.

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JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1  seeder  JohnRussell    2 months ago
Rep. Chuck Wichgers (R-Muskego), one of the bill's co-authors, said intestimonyabout the bill that it would ban the use of words and topics such as "critical self-reflection," "marginalized communities" and "racial prejudice."

They want to ban the phrase "racial prejudice" from Wisconsin schools. 

Insanity. 

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Guide
1.1  Greg Jones  replied to  JohnRussell @1    2 months ago

They shouldn't be teaching false racist propaganda in the lower grades.There is plenty of time for them to brainwash students after they go to college

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1.1.1  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Greg Jones @1.1    2 months ago

Do you think the phrase "racial prejudice" should be banned from the nations public schools? Yes or no ? 

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
PhD Guide
1.1.2  Thrawn 31  replied to  Greg Jones @1.1    2 months ago

What should schools teach? Let us see your preferred lesson plan. 

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.2  Tessylo  replied to  JohnRussell @1    2 months ago

Banning something that isn't happening.  

 
 
 
Gsquared
Junior Principal
2  Gsquared    2 months ago

After passing their bill, the Republicans went looking for some books to burn.

800

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
2.1  Sean Treacy  replied to  Gsquared @2    2 months ago

Here are your actual book burners:

The “flame purification” ceremony, first reported   by Radio Canada   , was held in 2019 by the Conseil scolaire catholique Providence, which oversees elementary and secondary schools in southwestern Ontario. Some 30 books, the national broadcaster reported, were burned for “educational purposes” and then the ashes were used as fertilizer to plant a tree.

“We bury the ashes of racism, discrimination and stereotypes in the hope that we will grow up in an inclusive country where all can live in prosperity and security,” says a video prepared for students about the book burning, Radio Canada reported.

In total, more than 4,700 books were removed from library shelves at 30 schools across the school board, and they have since been destroyed or are in the process of being recycled, Radio Canada reported.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
2.1.1  Trout Giggles  replied to  Sean Treacy @2.1    2 months ago

What does that have to do with education in Wisconsin, USA? You're talking about Canada. If I were John I would flag this as off-topic

 
 
 
Gsquared
Junior Principal
2.1.2  Gsquared  replied to  Sean Treacy @2.1    2 months ago

You missed the lead paragraph:

" A book burning held by an Ontario francophone school board as an act of reconciliation with Indigenous people has received sharp condemnation from Canadian political leaders and the board itself now says it regrets its symbolic gesture."

Unlike the Republicans, who are still on the hunt.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.1.3  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Trout Giggles @2.1.1    2 months ago

Whataboutism is the right wing creed. 

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
2.1.4  Sean Treacy  replied to  Trout Giggles @2.1.1    2 months ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.5  Texan1211  replied to  Sean Treacy @2.1.4    2 months ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
2.1.6  Sean Treacy  replied to  Gsquared @2.1.2    2 months ago

Unlike the Republicans, who are still on the hunt.

I've provided an example of progressives  actually burning books.. You, of course, have done no such thing.

So first, of course, you have to show Republicans actually organizing a book burning, before claiming they are still on the hunt"  [Deleted]

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.1.7  Tessylo  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1.3    2 months ago

Projection, deflection, denial - all they got!

 
 
 
Gsquared
Junior Principal
2.1.8  Gsquared  replied to  Sean Treacy @2.1.6    2 months ago

"Courtland representative  Rabih Abuismail  and Livingston representative  Kirk Twigg  both championed burning the books that have been removed. “I think we should throw those books in a fire,” Abuismail said."

[ Deleted ]

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.9  Texan1211  replied to  Sean Treacy @2.1.6    2 months ago

Apparently for some, actually burning books is the equivalent of someone TALKING about burning books.

Weird world, eh?

 
 
 
Gsquared
Junior Principal
2.1.10  Gsquared  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.9    2 months ago

We don't hear you condemning your fellow Republicans advocating book burning.

That tells us a lot.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.11  Texan1211  replied to  Gsquared @2.1.10    2 months ago
We don't hear you condemning your fellow Republicans advocating book burning.

i don't condone any books being burned or even banned.

What the fuck does THAT tell you now?

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
2.1.12  Trout Giggles  replied to  Sean Treacy @2.1.4    2 months ago

I don't get to flag it as off topic. That's at the discretion of the seeder. Read the rules

 
 
 
Hallux
Sophomore Principal
2.1.13  Hallux  replied to  Sean Treacy @2.1    2 months ago

Yay, time for some whataboutism ... Matt Krause (R-Fort Worth)?

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
2.1.14  Sean Treacy  replied to  Trout Giggles @2.1.12    2 months ago

I don't get to flag it as off topic. That's at the discretion of the seeder. Read the rules

Way to miss the point.
Did I miss where you objected to the comparison of Wisconsin to 1935 Germany as off topic? 
 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
2.1.15  Sean Treacy  replied to  Gsquared @2.1.8    2 months ago

One independent and someone who's affiliation I can't determine made a joke and that equates to Republicans actually burning books?

Try again. 

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
2.1.16  Sean Treacy  replied to  Hallux @2.1.13    2 months ago

y, time for some whataboutism ... Matt Krause (R-Fort Worth)?

what books did he burn?

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
2.1.17  Sean Treacy  replied to  Gsquared @2.1.10    2 months ago

We don't hear you condemning your fellow Progressives for  book burning.

That tells us a lot.

 
 
 
Gsquared
Junior Principal
2.1.18  Gsquared  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.11    2 months ago

Very progressive of you.

 
 
 
Gsquared
Junior Principal
2.1.19  Gsquared  replied to  Sean Treacy @2.1.17    2 months ago

I don't condone any books being burned or even banned.

What the fuck does THAT tell you now?

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
2.1.20  Trout Giggles  replied to  Sean Treacy @2.1.17    2 months ago

We never hear anything from you condemning the silly antics of some in the Republican party

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.1.21  Tessylo  replied to  Gsquared @2.1.18    2 months ago

jrSmiley_91_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Hallux
Sophomore Principal
2.1.22  Hallux  replied to  Sean Treacy @2.1.16    2 months ago

Those books burned in Ontario where headed to a recycling plant where I'm sure they would have been stored as barrels of mush and slush. Darn those Indigenous Canadians for giving them a funeral pyre. Libraries of all natures make space for new arrivals, my local library holds a yearly sale of shelf space wasters, what is not sold is picked through by charities and the remains are tossed into the 'Big Green Truck' of 'Incarceration Incineration & Sons'. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.23  Texan1211  replied to  Gsquared @2.1.18    2 months ago
Very progressive of you.

No, just ordinary common sense, something in very short supply amongst some progressive liberals.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.24  Texan1211  replied to  Gsquared @2.1.19    2 months ago

Please don't plagiarize my posts.

That is intellectually lazy.

 
 
 
Hallux
Sophomore Principal
2.1.25  Hallux  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.23    2 months ago
"common sense"
Ah yes that infamous version of sense.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.26  Texan1211  replied to  Hallux @2.1.25    2 months ago

Thanks for the inane opinion piece.

 
 
 
Hallux
Sophomore Principal
2.1.27  Hallux  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.26    2 months ago

No problem ... anytime. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.28  Texan1211  replied to  Hallux @2.1.27    2 months ago

Thanks, I will look for more posts with more inane opinions!

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
2.1.29  devangelical  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.28    2 months ago
I will look for more posts with more inane opinions!

ezpz, publish a seed and watch the magatards flock to comment.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.30  Texan1211  replied to  devangelical @2.1.29    2 months ago
ezpz, publish a seed and watch the magatards flock to comment.

Thank God I didn't have to go hunt for one, it just appears before me!

Thanks for so eloquently proving me right, and so quickly, too!!!!

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
2.1.31  XXJefferson51  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.23    2 months ago

You got that exactly right.  Well said!  

 
 
 
Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom
Professor Expert
2.1.32  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom  replied to  Hallux @2.1.25    2 months ago
Ah yes that infamous version of sense.

jrSmiley_18_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
2.2  Trout Giggles  replied to  Gsquared @2    2 months ago

I guess some can't see the irony slapping them in the face

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
2.2.1  devangelical  replied to  Trout Giggles @2.2    2 months ago

only because it's not what is usually slapping those faces...

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.3  Texan1211  replied to  Gsquared @2    2 months ago

How weak to invoke Nazis.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
2.3.1  Sparty On  replied to  Texan1211 @2.3    2 months ago

Godwins law ..... haven't had to invoke that one in awhile.

Which is a good thing

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
3  Ender    2 months ago

I have come to the conclusion they will do anything they can to weaken public schools.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
3.1  devangelical  replied to  Ender @3    2 months ago

[removed]

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
3.2  Sparty On  replied to  Ender @3    2 months ago

The supposition that not teaching our kids to hate is somehow hurting our public schools is ridiculous imo and yet a lot of you seem to be just fine that basic Civics is taught in few Public Schools these days.

That is amazing.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
3.2.1  Ender  replied to  Sparty On @3.2    2 months ago

Nobody is teaching kids to hate. That is ridiculous in itself.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
3.2.2  Sparty On  replied to  Ender @3.2.1    2 months ago

Not ridiculous at all as opinions do vary.

Now not teaching basic Civics?   That IS ridiculous.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
3.2.3  Ender  replied to  Sparty On @3.2.2    2 months ago

So it is just your opinion that teachers are teaching kids to hate and not fact.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
3.2.4  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Ender @3.2.1    2 months ago

If you are a teacher dont try to claim that white people did anything wrong in the past. 

If you stay away from that you wont get as many complaints. 

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
3.2.5  Sparty On  replied to  Ender @3.2.3    2 months ago

I have no doubt that some are.

Defining racism from the standpoint of skin color only, and not the content of character, is teaching to hate.   IMO yes it is.   Especially younger kids.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
3.2.6  Sparty On  replied to  JohnRussell @3.2.4    2 months ago
If you are a teacher dont try to claim that white people did anything wrong in the past. 

More bullshit.   Kids are in school to learn not be programmed or indoctrinated.

No one and i mean no one is asking to lie or not tell the truth about history.   At least not me.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
3.2.7  Ender  replied to  Sparty On @3.2.5    2 months ago

They way schools are being scrutinized now, I am sure if someone was teaching hate we would hear about it.

Sorry but racism is mostly about skin colour. Hard to get away from that fact.

 
 
 
evilgenius
Professor Guide
4  evilgenius    2 months ago

Were to pass it would be vetoed immediately. Nothing to worry about here... yet.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
5  Trout Giggles    2 months ago

I really want to know with what's wrong about teaching children the true history of America? America is the greatest country but it has warts. Huge, ugly warts. I'm not talking about teaching white kids to hate themselves because of something that is beyond their span of control (they weren't around 400 years ago). And there's nothing wrong with showing children how to do critical self-reflection.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
5.1  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Trout Giggles @5    2 months ago

Many white Americans dont want their children taught that America has historically been a racist country. Its kind of that simple. 

I have repeatedly asked people on this site to tell me a decade in American history when the US wasn't more racist than not.  No one can do it. 

Maybe in the last few decades that is no longer true, but even that is in dispute. 

Lets just acknowledge the past so we can move past it.  It is not happening when politicians want to remove the phrase "racial prejudice" from the public schools. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
5.1.1  Texan1211  replied to  JohnRussell @5.1    2 months ago

I think most people HAVE acknowledged the past, they just choose not to live in it.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
5.1.2  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Texan1211 @5.1.1    2 months ago

All we hear in these school discussions is what the white parents want. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
5.1.3  Texan1211  replied to  JohnRussell @5.1.2    2 months ago
All we hear in these school discussions is what the white parents want. 

So go listen to others if that is a huge concern for you. What does your comment have to do with mine to even begin with?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
5.1.4  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Texan1211 @5.1.3    2 months ago

Frankly, I dont give a fuck. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
5.1.5  Texan1211  replied to  JohnRussell @5.1.4    2 months ago
Frankly, I dont give a fuck. 

Then why the stream of seeds and comments?

Senseless if you don't give a fuck.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
5.1.6  Texan1211  replied to  JohnRussell @5.1.2    2 months ago
All we hear in these school discussions is what the white parents want. 

Aren't you a white parent?

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
5.1.7  Ozzwald  replied to  Texan1211 @5.1.1    2 months ago
I think most people HAVE acknowledged the past, they just choose not to live in it.

359342-Sara-Shepard-Quote-Those-who-forget-the-past-are-doomed-to-repeat.jpg

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
5.1.8  Texan1211  replied to  Ozzwald @5.1.7    2 months ago

I believe almost every adult will clearly recognize the differences between acknowledging something and moving on from it and forgetting history.

Not all, clearly, but most.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
5.1.9  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Texan1211 @5.1.5    2 months ago

stop trolling

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
5.1.10  Texan1211  replied to  JohnRussell @5.1.9    2 months ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Hallux
Sophomore Principal
5.1.11  Hallux  replied to  Texan1211 @5.1.10    2 months ago
removed for context by charger

There's a recorded euphemism for that, Vic Torola skips with it often.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
5.1.12  Sparty On  replied to  JohnRussell @5.1    2 months ago
Many white Americans dont want their children taught that America has historically been a racist country. Its kind of that simple. 

That's bullshit.  

They don't want their kids taught the progressive line on racism.   That is that they should feel guilty about something that happened decades or hundreds of years ago.

The extremists on both side of this issue are nuts.   Absolutely nuts.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
5.1.13  Texan1211  replied to  Hallux @5.1.11    2 months ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
5.1.14  Sean Treacy  replied to  Sparty On @5.1.12    2 months ago
hey don't want their kids taught the progressive line on racism

Notice how they can't deal honestly with the law at issue?  They make up what it's about and ignore what it actually says. 

I'd post the text of the law, but it's a COC violation. 

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
5.1.15  Trout Giggles  replied to  Sparty On @5.1.12    2 months ago

What's the "progressive line" on racism? Did you read the part about the book the author read to his kid?

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
5.1.16  Ozzwald  replied to  Sparty On @5.1.12    2 months ago
That is that they should feel guilty about something that happened decades or hundreds of years ago.

Do you really believe that racism does not exist today?

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
5.1.17  Sparty On  replied to  Trout Giggles @5.1.15    2 months ago

Pushing white guilt over shit that happened decades even 100's of years ago.

I'm very glad i don't have kids in public schools right now.

Very glad

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
5.1.18  Sparty On  replied to  Ozzwald @5.1.16    2 months ago

Is that what i said?  

The fact that you would even imply that tells me everything i need to know about where your head is at on this issue.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
5.1.19  Trout Giggles  replied to  Sparty On @5.1.17    2 months ago

I don't see anyone pushing white guilt. I hear a lot of people talking about it...maybe they do feel some guilt on a sub-conscious level.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
5.1.20  Sparty On  replied to  Trout Giggles @5.1.19    2 months ago
I don't see anyone pushing white guilt.

Oh c'mon TG .... you don't really believe that do you?

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
5.1.21  Trout Giggles  replied to  Sparty On @5.1.20    2 months ago

Yeah, I do. Nobody around me is pushing white guilt. Who do you see doing it?

I see people talking about white privilege which is real. But that's not pushing white guilt.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
5.1.22  Texan1211  replied to  Trout Giggles @5.1.21    2 months ago
Who do you see doing it?

The seeder comes immediately to mind.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
5.1.23  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Trout Giggles @5.1.19    2 months ago

One Tin Soldier

Listen children to a story
That was written long ago
About a kingdom on a mountain
And the valley folk below

On the mountian was a treasure
Burried deep beneath a stone
And the valley people swore
They'd have it for their very own

Go ahead and hate your neighbor
Go ahead and cheat a friend
Do it in the name of Heaven
You can justify it in the end
There won't be any trumpets blowing
Come the judgement day
On the bloody morning after
One tin soldier rides away

So the people of the valley
Sent a message up the hill
Asking for the burried treasure
Tons of gold for which they'd kill

Came an answer from the kingdom
With our brothers we will share
All the secrets of our mountain
All the riches burried there

Now the valley cried with anger
Mount your horses, draw your sword
And they killed the mountain people
So they won their just reward

Now they stood beside the treasure
On the mountain dark and red
Turn the stone and which beneath it
Peace on earth was all it said

If this were real and not a song, we would have people telling us that the valley people have nothing to feel "guilty" about because they are individuals and they are all not guilty for the sins of a few.  So why even write the song? 

The song has a moral to the story, the valley people didnt want the secret to peace even when it was offered to them, but if we have to argue about who among the valley people is or isnt individually "guilty" in the story then we will never get to the message. 

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
5.1.24  Sparty On  replied to  Trout Giggles @5.1.21    2 months ago

I don't but as noted i also don't have kids in school anymore.

CRT, by definition, pushes white guilt IMO.   It doesn't define people by their character, values and behavior but tries to define everyone by the color of their skin.    And i disagree with that concept in no uncertain terms.

So I'm an adherent to the MLK Jr school of thought.   Folks who believe in CRT must think MLK Jr was wrong in that regard.   I don't.

 

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
5.1.25  Trout Giggles  replied to  Sparty On @5.1.24    2 months ago
CRT, by definition, pushes white guilt IMO.

Note: In your opinion.

It doesn't define people by their character, values and behavior but tries to define everyone by the color of their skin.

Have you actually read any thing in depth on the subject besides what it is thrown around here or in the media? I will admit I haven't. I do understand that it's a graduate level course in college. I think the subject is geared towards critical thinking and isn't necessarily about culture, race, and guilt.

Folks who believe in CRT must think MLK Jr was wrong in that regard.

How do you know? Have you asked them?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
5.1.26  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Trout Giggles @5.1.25    2 months ago

Critical race theory has to do with systemic racism in the US legal system. As part of the argument, critical race theory creators argued that racism was built into the social structure of America, hence you get the famous "all whites are racist" theme we hear so much about. 

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
5.1.27  devangelical  replied to  Trout Giggles @5.1.25    2 months ago
the subject is geared towards critical thinking

which explains why most non-critical thinkers are so upset.

 
 
 
Hallux
Sophomore Principal
5.1.28  Hallux  replied to  Sparty On @5.1.24    2 months ago
I'm an adherent to the MLK Jr school of thought

So I keep hearing by those who quote the same line ad-infinitum. 

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
5.1.29  Sparty On  replied to  Trout Giggles @5.1.25    2 months ago
Note: In your opinion.

Yes, in my opinion.   Just like your opinion disagrees with my opinion.

Have you actually read any thing in depth on the subject besides what it is thrown around here or in the media? I will admit I haven't. I do understand that it's a graduate level course in college. I think the subject is geared towards critical thinking and isn't necessarily about culture, race, and guilt.

I've studies it a little bit and it's a loaded theory depending how one applies it.   It was started in academia in the 70's at Harvard.   Took a good while to to take hold though   A good example of how unbalanced CRT can be i heard awhile back goes as follows.  

Two people walk into a store one white, one black.    Who do you serve first?   I responded by saying whoever came in first but this example took it further than that.   If you served the white person first CRT might say that was because you were racist even if your basis was simple because the white customer came in first.    Clearly unfair.   If you served the black person first a CRT advocate might say that was because you were racist and didn't trust the black person in your store even if the basis was because the black person came in first.   In either case the white person loses no matter what they do.

How do you know? Have you asked them?

Well they must think that right?   Since they want to judge people by the color of their skin and not by the content of their character like MLK preached.   How could they agree with him?

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
5.1.30  Sparty On  replied to  Hallux @5.1.28    2 months ago

Do you have a point or are you just trolling?

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
5.1.31  Trout Giggles  replied to  Sparty On @5.1.29    2 months ago
Well they must think that right?  

You don't like when people tell you what you think, do you?

 
 
 
Hallux
Sophomore Principal
5.1.32  Hallux  replied to  Sparty On @5.1.29    2 months ago
In either case the white person loses no matter what they do.

You seem to have innately jumped to the conclusion the the person who served 'you' was a white person. Or ... you misheard the 'story' and misrelated it. 

 
 
 
Hallux
Sophomore Principal
5.1.33  Hallux  replied to  Sparty On @5.1.30    2 months ago

Both.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
5.1.34  Sparty On  replied to  Hallux @5.1.33    2 months ago

Do tell

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
5.1.35  Sparty On  replied to  Trout Giggles @5.1.31    2 months ago

Okay, where am i telling people what to think?

I'll be happy to correct that here if i did.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
5.1.36  Trout Giggles  replied to  Sparty On @5.1.35    2 months ago

You did write that statement, didn't you?

Well they must think that right?  

Actually this is what I wrote: You don't like when people tell you what you think, do you?

I'm saying you don't want people telling you WHAT YOU THINK not people telling what to think. Big difference

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
5.1.37  Sparty On  replied to  Hallux @5.1.32    2 months ago

No, the question was ask of me, i was the store owner.

Work harder please .....

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
5.1.38  Sparty On  replied to  Trout Giggles @5.1.36    2 months ago

That's a question Trout not a statement.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
5.1.39  Ender  replied to  JohnRussell @5.1.23    2 months ago

Thanks for the ear worm John...jrSmiley_100_smiley_image.jpg

 
 
 
Hallux
Sophomore Principal
5.1.40  Hallux  replied to  Sparty On @5.1.37    2 months ago
No, the question was ask of me, i was the store owner.

That is not how you posited it. "A good example of how unbalanced CRT can be i heard awhile back goes as follows." Notwithstanding the atrocious grammar, it is not I who needs to work harder.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
5.1.41  Sparty On  replied to  Hallux @5.1.40    2 months ago

That is exactly how i posted it.   And i quote:

Two people walk into a store one white, one black.    Who do you serve first?

The question was posed to me, as the store owner.   Now run along, i tire of your sophomoric shenanigans.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
5.1.42  Ozzwald  replied to  Sparty On @5.1.18    2 months ago
Is that what i said? 

Yes, it is.

The fact that you would even imply that tells me everything i need to know about where your head is at on this issue.

[Deleted]

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
5.1.43  Sparty On  replied to  Ozzwald @5.1.42    2 months ago
Yes, it is.

no it wasn’t

The fact that you are unable to clearly express your beliefs is the issue here, apparently.

[Deleted]

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
6  Kavika     2 months ago

Ah, the deep north strikes again.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
6.1  Ender  replied to  Kavika @6    2 months ago

Well, it is from a state where they wear cheese on their heads....

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
7  Sean Treacy    2 months ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Hallux
Sophomore Principal
7.1  Hallux  replied to  Sean Treacy @7    2 months ago

Nunavut women are superior to anyone.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
7.2  Sean Treacy  replied to  Sean Treacy @7    2 months ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
PhD Guide
8  Thrawn 31    2 months ago

Parents determining school curriculum, one of the worst ideas of all time. 

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
8.1  XXJefferson51  replied to  Thrawn 31 @8    2 months ago

No it’s not.  It’s a great idea!  

 
 

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