Theodore Roosevelt statue removed from outside New York’s Museum of Natural History

  

Category:  News & Politics

Via:  john-russell  •  4 months ago  •  169 comments

Theodore Roosevelt statue removed from outside New York’s Museum of Natural History
“The statue was meant to celebrate Theodore Roosevelt … as a devoted naturalist and author of works on natural history,” the museum website has said about the removal. “At the same time, the statue itself communicates a racial hierarchy that the Museum and members of the public have long found disturbing.”

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T



www.washingtonpost.com   /nation/2022/01/20/theodore-roosevelt-statue-new-york/

Theodore Roosevelt statue removed from outside New York’s Museum of Natural History


Adela Suliman 5-6 minutes   1/20/2022




A statue of Theodore Roosevelt, the 26th president of the United States, was removed overnight Wednesday from its spot outside the American Museum of Natural History in New York City.

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The towering bronze   statue   depicts Roosevelt riding a horse, as two nameless African and Native American men flank him on foot.



It has provoked strong debate in the city, as many criticized the apparent subservience of the pair to the White man in the center — calling the scene a symbol of racism and colonialism.



“The statue was meant to celebrate Theodore Roosevelt … as a devoted naturalist and author of works on natural history,” the museum   website has said   about the removal. “At the same time, the statue itself communicates a racial hierarchy that the Museum and members of the public have long found disturbing.”



Roosevelt’s father was one of the founders of the museum. The “Equestrian Statue of Theodore Roosevelt” was   commissioned   in 1925 and designed by James Earle Fraser. It has stood on the steps outside the museum since 1940.



In June 2020, the   museum announced   it had the permission of New York City — along with the blessing of Roosevelt’s namesake descendent — to remove the monument.



Statues have become lightning rods for passionate public debate over whom the United States chooses to honor in its public spaces and how it seeks to record its history.



The push to remove statues gained momentum in the United States and   elsewhere   following the racial reckoning and Black Lives Matter protests that came after the police killing of   George Floyd   in 2020.



Former New York mayor Bill de Blasio (D) said in June 2020 it was “the right decision and the right time to remove this problematic statue” because it “explicitly depicts Black and Indigenous people as subjugated and racially inferior.” President Donald Trump called the decision “ridiculous” on Twitter at the time and urged authorities not to remove it.



The museum’s decision was also approved a year later by the New York City Public Design Commission. New York City owns the statue and the property on which it was built. The museum also   created its own exhibit to address the questions   and criticism surrounding the monument.



The Roosevelt statue will be on long-term loan to the Theodore Roosevelt Presidential Library due to open in 2026, in North Dakota, where Roosevelt spent time in the Badlands. The presidential library was termed “a fitting new home” by New York City   officials   when the decision was made last year, noting it could be “appropriately contextualized” there.



Library trustees agreed the statue was “problematic in its composition” and said in a   statement   they would be establishing an advisory council comprising representatives from Indigenous and Black communities, historians, scholars, and artists to determine next steps.



The president’s descendent Theodore Roosevelt V has welcomed the decision to remove the monument and   said   in a statement that there were lessons to be learned from “difficult, complex, and inclusive discussions” about its future.



Statues of Confederate leaders, Christopher Columbus, George Washington and Thomas Jefferson have been set ablaze, vandalized or torn down by   protesters   in some places. In 2017, the Roosevelt statue itself was doused in red paint by a group called the “Monument Removal Brigade,” which   said   the statue represented “patriarchy, white supremacy and settler-colonialism.”



A monument of Jefferson was   removed   from New York City Hall last year after officials voted unanimously to banish it from the council chambers over the former president’s history as a enslaver. In D.C., a debate continues to grow over calls for the removal of the   Emancipation Memorial   featuring Abraham Lincoln, which sits in Lincoln Park, steps away from the U.S. Capitol.



Roosevelt was   president   from 1901 to 1909. He was the first president to invite an African American, Booker T. Washington, to dine at the White House, and he pushed for a “square deal” for people of all races and classes, supporting unions while cracking down on monopolies. Yet he also believed in the superiority of White, Western culture and supported the eugenics movement.



Before becoming president, Roosevelt wrote enthusiastically of conquering the “squalid savages” on the Western frontier in his 1889 book, “ The Winning of the West .” Even some of his supporters concede that not unlike the country he led, Roosevelt had a complicated and at times troubling history.




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JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1  seeder  JohnRussell    4 months ago

I feel a little bit more ambivalent about this statue than about the Lost Cause confederate traitor statues, but in the end it is a relic of American colonialism and the "white man's burden" mindset from the late 19th and early 20th century.  Put up a different statue of Teddy Roosevelt in the same spot. 

 
 
 
Kathleen
Professor Principal
1.1  Kathleen  replied to  JohnRussell @1    4 months ago

Do you think any building or landmark built by slave labor should be taken down?

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
1.1.1  Ozzwald  replied to  Kathleen @1.1    4 months ago
Do you think any building or landmark built by slave labor should be taken down?

It is pretty obvious where your "gotcha" question to JohnRussell is going.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.1.2  Texan1211  replied to  Ozzwald @1.1.1    4 months ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Kathleen
Professor Principal
1.1.3  Kathleen  replied to  Ozzwald @1.1.1    4 months ago

Why is it a “gotcha” question?

Its not that hard to answer.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1.1.4  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Kathleen @1.1.3    4 months ago

What building do you have in mind ? 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.1.5  TᵢG  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1.4    4 months ago

( I predict:  'the White House' )

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
1.1.6  Ozzwald  replied to  Texan1211 @1.1.2    4 months ago

Not an answer.

Once again your failure to read the comments is making you look silly.  I was never asked a question.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
1.1.7  Ozzwald  replied to  TᵢG @1.1.5    4 months ago
( I predict:  'the White House' )

I'm guessing the Washington Monument...

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.1.8  TᵢG  replied to  Ozzwald @1.1.7    4 months ago

There are quite a few options here.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1.1.9  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  TᵢG @1.1.5    4 months ago

I think you are right.  The problem Kathleen has is that the White House stands as a tribute to the slaves that helped build it, not as a derogation of them. 

 
 
 
Kathleen
Professor Principal
1.1.10  Kathleen  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1.4    4 months ago

All you have to do is google it and you will know. I saw at least 15 buildings. I don't like to see something hurt or upset people, but on the other hand how far do you go?  There may be a lot of things linked to a part of history that was good or bad. It reminds us of the bad things we don't want to repeat. I look at it as something you do not want to happen again.

 
 
 
Kathleen
Professor Principal
1.1.11  Kathleen  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1.9    4 months ago

I think you are wrong. 

You also did not answer my question.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.1.12  Texan1211  replied to  Ozzwald @1.1.6    4 months ago

you somehow managed to copy and paste the question.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1.1.13  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Kathleen @1.1.11    4 months ago

Okay, why dont you tell us what you have in mind. Your original comment was a little vague. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1.1.14  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Kathleen @1.1.10    4 months ago

Without specifics and a logical argument you dont have a case. The fact that some building was built by slaves does not automatically confer the assertion that the existence of the building is insulting or derogatory about the slaves. 

Your opinion that the statues are history and should be preserved is an argument used to defend confederate statues. It is a very weak argument. 

 
 
 
Kathleen
Professor Principal
1.1.15  Kathleen  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1.13    4 months ago

I asked you if you think these buildings should be removed? 

You are simply not answering the question. It is a yes or no question.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
1.1.16  Ozzwald  replied to  Texan1211 @1.1.12    4 months ago
you somehow managed to copy and paste the question.

And with some practice, you too will learn to do so.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.1.17  Texan1211  replied to  Ozzwald @1.1.16    4 months ago

I know how. any further deflections or just nonsense?

 
 
 
squiggy
Sophomore Quiet
1.2  squiggy  replied to  JohnRussell @1    4 months ago

...or we can spraypaint the two walkers white. A load of white soldiers have had to walk in the horseshit of lieutenants.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
2  Kavika     4 months ago
“I don’t go so far as to think that the only good Indians are the dead Indians, but I believe nine out of every 10 are,” Roosevelt said during a January 1886 speech in New York. “And I shouldn’t like to inquire too closely into the case of the tenth.”
 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.1  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Kavika @2    4 months ago

Such statements like that are exactly why we have to revisit the way history has been told in this country and get it right. 

 
 
 
Drakkonis
PhD Guide
2.2  Drakkonis  replied to  Kavika @2    4 months ago

I'm usually not a fan of removing statues. I'm also not a fan of creating them in the first place, but since they are there and have historical significance I think they have their uses if viewed correctly. In this case, however, they symbolism of this particular statue seems egregious enough to warrant its removal. The quote you provide here suggests the hubris behind Roosevelt's (and probably most of his contemporaries) worldview I see in the statue. As if he were both their subjugator and savior, rescuing the Indians from their savage existence. I can see why that would be inappropriate and hard to let stand. 

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
3  Ed-NavDoc    4 months ago

And the sheer pettyness of the liberal left "woke" culture claims another victim!

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
3.1  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @3    4 months ago
"the statue itself communicates a racial hierarchy that the Museum and members of the public have long found disturbing.”

How is that pettiness ? 

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
3.1.1  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1    4 months ago

We have different mindsets John. We each see things differently on this. The left keeps taking down any statue or monument that may offend them. How far does it go and where does it end? When there is nothing left of our past heritage left?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
3.1.2  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @3.1.1    4 months ago

They can put up a different statue of Teddy Roosevelt.  As far as statues being "history" , that is highly debatable. 

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
3.1.3  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1.2    4 months ago

I used the word heritage. You used history. Heritage and history can be either good or bad, but in the end they are still just heritage and history and should not be forgotten or erased.

 
 
 
Kathleen
Professor Principal
3.1.4  Kathleen  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @3.1.1    4 months ago

Exactly.

My point like above is how far do we go?

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
3.1.5  Split Personality  replied to  Kathleen @3.1.4    4 months ago

Until the majority are comfortable with publicly displayed 'heritage'/history/art.

Teddy doesn't care.

Jeff Davis, Robert E Lee et al, All dead, no opinions.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.1.6  Texan1211  replied to  Kathleen @3.1.4    4 months ago
My point like above is how far do we go?

Probably until all of the woke folk are satisfied.

Oh, hell, who am I kidding?

As far as necessary to assuage faux white guilt feelings over things which happened decades ago.

 
 
 
Kathleen
Professor Principal
3.1.7  Kathleen  replied to  Split Personality @3.1.5    4 months ago

That could be never.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
3.1.8  devangelical  replied to  Split Personality @3.1.5    4 months ago

[removed]

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.1.9  Texan1211  replied to  devangelical @3.1.8    4 months ago

removed for context by charger 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
3.1.10  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Texan1211 @3.1.9    4 months ago

Step out of the past. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.1.11  Texan1211  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1.10    4 months ago
Step out of the past. 

By erasing it?

No thanks, not today, and not tomorrow. Next week isn't looking good, either.

 
 
 
Kathleen
Professor Principal
3.1.12  Kathleen  replied to  Split Personality @3.1.5    4 months ago

Actually, that comment was for Ed not you.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
3.1.13  Split Personality  replied to  Kathleen @3.1.12    4 months ago

No problem, I can't tell you from JR now anyway. lol

 
 
 
Kathleen
Professor Principal
3.1.14  Kathleen  replied to  Split Personality @3.1.13    4 months ago

No need to insult SP. 

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
3.1.15  Split Personality  replied to  Kathleen @3.1.14    4 months ago

No insult intended Kathleen.

Your avatars are too similar now.

That's all I meant.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
4  Texan1211    4 months ago

Gee, who knew simply removing some statues would have zero effect on race relations?

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Freshman Guide
5  Right Down the Center    4 months ago

“At the same time, the statue itself communicates a racial hierarchy that the Museum and members of the public have long found disturbing.”

I call bullshit.  Nothing more than virtue signaling.  

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Masters Principal
5.1  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Right Down the Center @5    4 months ago

Exactly....................

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
5.2  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Right Down the Center @5    4 months ago

Its not hard to see that the statue communicates a racial hierarchy.  Maybe you need to reconsider.  Or are you in favor of racial hierarchies ? 

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Freshman Guide
5.2.1  Right Down the Center  replied to  JohnRussell @5.2    4 months ago

I have been to the museum at least 12 times and have never thought about the statue in terms of racial hierarchy.  I am also willing to be that the vast majority of people going there or passing by it  have not thought about it at all either, including the people that have worked there over the years.  The fact that it "bothers" them so much at this point in time only reflects the need to placate the woke few.  In other words virtue signaling.  Luckily people are getting tired of it and are starting to push back on the insanity.  Maybe you should reconsider the importance of a statue that the vast majority of people don't care about and spend time worrying about things that really matter. 

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
5.2.2  Sparty On  replied to  JohnRussell @5.2    4 months ago

I’m offended by murals of criminal thugs like George Floyd and Che.

You see, I’m against criminals in general.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
5.2.3  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Right Down the Center @5.2.1    4 months ago
I have been to the museum at least 12 times and have never thought about the statue in terms of racial hierarchy.

So what? 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
5.2.4  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Sparty On @5.2.2    4 months ago

Irrelevant. 

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
5.2.5  Sparty On  replied to  JohnRussell @5.2.4    4 months ago

Nope, 100% relevant.    And it’s current news, not ancient news.

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Freshman Guide
5.2.6  Right Down the Center  replied to  JohnRussell @5.2.3    4 months ago

If you can't figure it out by yourself I am afraid nothing I say can help clarify.  Suffice it to say taking the statue down at this time is nothing other than virtue signaling and any perceived concern about racial hierarchy is just them bowing to the wokesters that tell  everyone else what should bother them if they don't want to get called racist and canceled.

Have a lovely day.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
5.2.7  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Sparty On @5.2.5    4 months ago

Explain to us why a statue of George Floyd is relevant to the Teddy Roosevelt statue. 

The TR statue was recommended for removal long before anyone knew who George Floyd was. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
5.2.8  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Right Down the Center @5.2.6    4 months ago

There is a reason to take down the statue related to the message it sends. You just dont like the reason. 

 
 
 
Moose Knuckle
Freshman Participates
5.2.9  Moose Knuckle  replied to  JohnRussell @5.2.7    4 months ago
Explain to us why a statue of George Floyd is relevant to the Teddy Roosevelt statue.

George Floyd only held a gun to a pregnant woman's stomach in a home invasion, his statue stays. Teddy wanted to protect forests and wildlife, clearly we need to tear down that statue.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
5.2.10  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Moose Knuckle @5.2.9    4 months ago

Start a seed about George Floyd then. It is irrelevant to this seed. 

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
5.2.11  Sparty On  replied to  JohnRussell @5.2.7    4 months ago

I’ve already told you.    I’m offended by criminals.    Just like you are offended by TR.  

Just like TR, GF must be erased from view to put a cooling salve on my delicate sensibilities.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
5.2.12  Sparty On  replied to  JohnRussell @5.2.10    4 months ago

Nope, still 100% applicable in comparison.

100%

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
5.2.13  bugsy  replied to  JohnRussell @5.2.10    4 months ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
5.2.14  Tessylo  replied to  Moose Knuckle @5.2.9    4 months ago

Sounds like an outright lie to me.  

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
5.2.15  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Sparty On @5.2.11    4 months ago

You have a hard time staying on the topic. Probably because you dont have a good argument to make about it. 

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
5.2.16  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  JohnRussell @5.2.7    4 months ago

Floyd was a hardened brutal criminal thug. TR was not. I would much prefer a staue of TR over Floyd any day. He was not perfect and had his faults but that scumbag Floyd did hold a candle to Roosevelt!

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
5.2.17  Sparty On  replied to  JohnRussell @5.2.15    4 months ago

You have a hard time accepting cogent points being made on topic.    Usually when said points don’t goose step in exact unison with your preferred narrative.

c’est la vie John .....

 
 
 
Jasper2529
PhD Participates
5.2.18  Jasper2529  replied to  Right Down the Center @5.2.1    4 months ago
I have been to the museum at least 12 times and have never thought about the statue in terms of racial hierarchy.  I am also willing to be that the vast majority of people going there or passing by it  have not thought about it at all either, including the people that have worked there over the years.  The fact that it "bothers" them so much at this point in time only reflects the need to placate the woke few.  In other words virtue signaling. 

I haven't been there nearly as many times as you, but I agree with your comment. The removal of the statue was most likely due to the complaints of a few woke people - the type who are offended by anything and anyone who don't think like they do.

BTW ... they'll also have to rename the park where the museum is located ... Theodore Roosevelt Park. How ironic that it took 82 years before somebody was offended by the statue!

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
5.2.19  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Jasper2529 @5.2.18    4 months ago

I have explained , and others have explained why the statue is offensive. 

There is nothing else we can do for people whose mind is made up that it is only about "cancel culture". 

This seed is far from the conservatives finest hour. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
5.2.20  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Sparty On @5.2.17    4 months ago

George Floyd is not even close to being the topic of this article. 

 
 
 
Jasper2529
PhD Participates
5.2.21  Jasper2529  replied to  JohnRussell @5.2.19    4 months ago
I have explained , and others have explained why the statue is offensive. 

That doesn't mean that everyone must agree.

This seed is far from the conservatives finest hour. 

I'm not too sure about that. It's been my experience that folks who want to remove statues, murals, paintings, etc. of historic meaning from public view are those on the left. Not all, but some ... and they are quite vocal about it.

Here's another example of activists' cancelation - a 141-year-old statue of Lincoln that commemorated Emancipation and freedom. I don't know about you or anyone else, but I was taught that freedom is a good thing.

The statue depicts a shirtless Alexander rising to his feet from broken shackles while Lincoln towers over him, a hand outstretched, to symbolize emancipation . At its base, an inscription reads: "A race set free and the country at peace. Lincoln rests from his labors."

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
5.2.22  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Jasper2529 @5.2.21    4 months ago

Historical revisionism is a age old concept.

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Freshman Guide
5.2.23  Right Down the Center  replied to  JohnRussell @5.2.19    4 months ago

Just because the statue is offensive to you does not mean it is offensive to everyone.  As I have stated the vast majority of people don't care about it at all, much less find it offensive.  The woke left are just mad that everyone doesn't find it offensive as they think they should.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
5.2.24  Ender  replied to  Right Down the Center @5.2.23    4 months ago

So some people find it offensive and you basically say so what....

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
5.2.25  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Right Down the Center @5.2.23    4 months ago
As I have stated the vast majority of people don't care about it at all, much less find it offensive.

Then why do you care? What are you complaining about? 

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Freshman Guide
5.2.26  Right Down the Center  replied to  Ender @5.2.24    4 months ago

Wokesters go out of there way to find offensive things to cancel.  Some people think kneeling for the national anthem is offensive, yet people still do it with the blessing of the wokesters. .  You are not going to make all the people happy all the time.

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Freshman Guide
5.2.27  Right Down the Center  replied to  JohnRussell @5.2.25    4 months ago

I find the direction of the woke left offensive, maybe they should stop.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
5.2.28  Ender  replied to  Right Down the Center @5.2.26    4 months ago

So some buzzword that has lost all meaning is what you are going by.

If you think only the left wing has an agenda and the right wing does not I have a bridge I can sell you. May need some repairs as it has been neglected for a couple of years...

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Freshman Guide
5.2.29  Right Down the Center  replied to  Ender @5.2.28    4 months ago

It is a definition that has plenty of meaning as long as the wokesters keep doing wokester stuff.

That is not what I think at all, both sides do have an agenda, this article happens to be about the left agenda.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
5.2.30  Ender  replied to  Right Down the Center @5.2.29    4 months ago

Weird to me that you think it is some kind of putdown.

I would rather be 'woke' than have my eyes closed.

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Freshman Guide
5.2.31  Right Down the Center  replied to  Ender @5.2.30    4 months ago

You can be woke and have your eyes closed also.  In fact the two go hand in hand.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
5.2.32  Texan1211  replied to  Right Down the Center @5.2.23    4 months ago
The woke left are just mad that everyone doesn't find it offensive as they think they should.

Nailed it with that!

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Freshman Guide
5.2.33  Right Down the Center  replied to  Jasper2529 @5.2.18    4 months ago
"How ironic that it took 82 years before somebody was offended by the statue!"
Exactly.  Just a wokester searching on the internet for something to complain about.
256

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
5.2.34  Ender  replied to  Right Down the Center @5.2.31    4 months ago

Only your opinion...

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
5.2.35  devangelical  replied to  Ender @5.2.34    4 months ago

sleep walkers...

 
 
 
Jasper2529
PhD Participates
5.2.36  Jasper2529  replied to  Right Down the Center @5.2.33    4 months ago

?u=https%3A%2F%2Fpics.me.me%2Fgood-morning-america-turning-point-usa-what-are-we-offended-28213143.png&f=1&nofb=1

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
5.2.37  Texan1211  replied to  JohnRussell @5.2.19    4 months ago
There is nothing else we can do for people whose mind is made up that it is only about "cancel culture".

Perhaps it is time the woke crowd realizes that we all don't worship at the altar of The Church of the Perpetually Offended by Something or Other.

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Freshman Guide
5.2.38  Right Down the Center  replied to  Ender @5.2.34    4 months ago

Yep

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Freshman Guide
5.2.39  Right Down the Center  replied to  Jasper2529 @5.2.36    4 months ago

As long as there is a statue they don't like still standing the woke left's job is never done.  

 
 
 
Jasper2529
PhD Participates
5.2.40  Jasper2529  replied to  Right Down the Center @5.2.39    4 months ago
“Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.” George Orwell, 1984
 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
5.2.41  Sparty On  replied to  JohnRussell @5.2.20    4 months ago

Keep rationalizing the it isn’t topical.    I know you will.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
5.2.42  Sparty On  replied to  Right Down the Center @5.2.39    4 months ago

Poor, poor wokesters .... so put upon .... so angry .... so wrong ....

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Freshman Guide
5.2.43  Right Down the Center  replied to  Jasper2529 @5.2.40    4 months ago

That is a little scary.  I guess the woke left can read and like what the read so they want to try it out..

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Freshman Guide
5.2.44  Right Down the Center  replied to  Sparty On @5.2.42    4 months ago

They do seem to be their happiest when they are miserable.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
5.2.45  Sparty On  replied to  Right Down the Center @5.2.44    4 months ago

Or knowingly making other people miserable.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
5.2.46  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Sparty On @5.2.45    4 months ago

Right wing cry babies just droning on and on and on and on and on and on and on with no end in sight on this seed. 

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
5.2.47  Sparty On  replied to  JohnRussell @5.2.46    4 months ago

Nah but we do know many on the left have a highly distorted viewpoint of the world around them and simple can’t handle reality.

It’s just sad, really sad.

 
 
 
Jasper2529
PhD Participates
5.2.48  Jasper2529  replied to  Right Down the Center @5.2.39    4 months ago

I just learned that Teddy's great-great-grandson, Theodore Roosevelt V,  played a hand in the statue's removal and was very happy about it. He's allegedly followed in Teddy's footsteps as a conservationist, and he also worked in the Obama administration in a climate change role.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
5.2.49  JBB  replied to  Jasper2529 @5.2.48    4 months ago

Somewhere along the line conservatism morphed from those dedicated to conserving our land and natural resources for further generations into preserving the rights of corporations and resource owners to slash and burn at will without regulation or consequences. From protecting the many from the few unto preserving the privilege of a shrinking minority. From a financially conservative party to one with radical beliefs in voodoo economics and trickle down nonsense. Where all that matters is that the very very rich have ever lower taxes and become infinitely richer while most people live in want. Those now insuring that future generations will be burdened with the tab for their reckless mismanagement. Ala Trump!

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Freshman Guide
5.2.50  Right Down the Center  replied to  JohnRussell @5.2.46    4 months ago

I think you may be confused.  It is the left wing that is crying about statues that have been up for several generations with no issues.  The right wing is just pointing out how ridiculous their virtue signaling really looks.

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Freshman Guide
5.2.51  Right Down the Center  replied to  Jasper2529 @5.2.48    4 months ago

Probably saw it as an opportunity to be on CNN.  Pretty sad that anyone would aspire to that.

 
 
 
Jasper2529
PhD Participates
5.2.52  Jasper2529  replied to  JBB @5.2.49    4 months ago

Thank you for taking the time to write a lengthy comment to me that is unrelated to the seeded topic.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
5.2.53  Sparty On  replied to  Jasper2529 @5.2.52    4 months ago

It’s the old baffle em with bullshit gambit.

Man, they do love the sound of their voices don’t they?

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
5.2.54  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Right Down the Center @5.2.44    4 months ago

Or trying to make somebody else that do not share their views feel that way.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Senior Quiet
5.3  Jack_TX  replied to  Right Down the Center @5    4 months ago
I call bullshit.  Nothing more than virtue signaling.  

Making white liberals "feel better" without them having to actually do anything.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
5.3.1  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Jack_TX @5.3    4 months ago

You have a one note song. 

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Senior Quiet
5.3.2  Jack_TX  replied to  JohnRussell @5.3.1    4 months ago
You have a one note song. 

You're the one with the song.  I'm just singing my part.

 
 
 
Moose Knuckle
Freshman Participates
6  Moose Knuckle    4 months ago

We have to fight the patriarchy of systematic institutional racism and stuff. Did you want cream or sugar?

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Freshman Guide
6.1  Right Down the Center  replied to  Moose Knuckle @6    4 months ago

It is after noon, Sambuca please.

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Quiet
7  charger 383    4 months ago

Teddy Roosevelt was one of our first environmentalists and a great president, but he said a few mean things that after over 100 years have upset  some so much that now his statue must be taken down.  Where will this craziness end?  

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
7.1  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  charger 383 @7    4 months ago

Easily offended hard core leftist liberal snowflakes have long memories. Until those with common sense rise up and do something to stop it, it will keep going for as long as they think they can get away with it.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
7.1.1  Kavika   replied to  Ed-NavDoc @7.1    4 months ago
Easily offended hard core leftist liberal snowflakes have long memories. Until those with common sense rise up and do something to stop it, it will keep going for as long as they think they can get away with it.

I could counter that ignorant statement with something like the stupid right-wing whiners have long memories and want the country to go back to the 1850s. For them acknowledging the true history of the US is a bridge too far and would require some self-awareness which is in short supply if available to them at all. 

I'm not easily offended at all Doc, I've lived as an Indian my whole life and my skin is tough I'm very familiar with what it means to be an Indian in the US. Instead of running my mouth on a social media site like so many here, I've actually fought the fight to bring about equal civil rights for Natives on the streets and in the courtroom. I will keep up the fight until I no longer can and perhaps those that you call having common sense will try to stop me, they haven't been able to in 70 plus years.

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
7.1.2  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Kavika @7.1.1    4 months ago

Counter all you want, it makes no difference to me as this is still a free country. You, me, and others paid with our blood to help insure that. Call me or my statement ignorant all you want, but either way I still respect your right to do so. I can only hope you can respect mine as well. If not, that's the way it goes. Have a good day.

 
 
 
Raven Wing
Professor Expert
7.1.3  Raven Wing  replied to  Kavika @7.1.1    4 months ago

Well said. jrSmiley_13_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
7.1.4  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Kavika @7.1.1    4 months ago

What is the downside to removing the TR statue from in front of the museum? The downside is all wrapped up in the hurt feelings of conservatives , and I suppose, big Teddy Roosevelt fans. 

The nicest thing one can say about the statue is that it is paternalistic towards people of color, particularly American Indians and blacks. A more realistic assessment would be that it represents the "white man's burden" which was a theme of that era akin to recognizing the "great white father" bs.  There is no reason to keep this imagery around in the 21st century. 

Another question is WHY do these removals upset right wingers?  Do they feel attacked? Why? All the removal does is acknowledge past history has not always been accurately presented, and was usually framed in a way to make whites look better than their behavior at the time justifies.  So what?  We are SUPPOSED to learn from the past. 

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
7.1.5  Sparty On  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @7.1.2    4 months ago

Well said Doc!

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
7.1.6  Sparty On  replied to  JohnRussell @7.1.4    4 months ago

At least your rationalizations are consistent John which is about the only value I can find there but lets turn it around.

Why are leftist so worried about shit that happened Centuries ago?    Are your sensibilities really that frail and narcissistic?

I guess they are ....

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Senior Quiet
7.1.7  Jack_TX  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @7.1    4 months ago
Easily offended hard core leftist liberal snowflakes have long memories.

Nah.

They chase the shiny object, and this one happens to be in front of their noses this week.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Senior Quiet
7.1.8  Jack_TX  replied to  JohnRussell @7.1.4    4 months ago
What is the downside to removing the TR statue from in front of the museum?

It's going to cost over $2 million.

Surely you're smart enough to think of at least a dozen ways $2million could be better spent to improve the lives of minorities in NYC.  

The nicest thing one can say about the statue is that it is paternalistic towards people of color, particularly American Indians and blacks.

Or, that it represents a historically accurate view from the time it depicts.

There is no reason to keep this imagery around in the 21st century.

Interesting to hear you of all people oppose public education regarding historical racism in America.  So out of curiosity, where does this particular crusade stop?  Do we ban Huckleberry Finn from public schools?  Will The Scarlett Letter follow, on the grounds it's misogynistic?  

We are SUPPOSED to learn from the past. 

Do explain how wasting large sums of money to remove educational materials moves us closer toward that goal.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
7.1.9  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Jack_TX @7.1.8    4 months ago
Or, that it represents a historically accurate view from the time it depicts.

So what? 

The removal of such statues is a societal acknowledgement that things have changed. That is very important. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
7.1.10  Texan1211  replied to  JohnRussell @7.1.9    4 months ago

Kowtowing to placate a few disgruntled folks usually is unsuccessful as policy.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Senior Quiet
7.1.11  Jack_TX  replied to  JohnRussell @7.1.9    4 months ago
The removal of such statues is a societal acknowledgement that things have changed.  

Hmmm.....   "We don't do it that way anymore so we should remove references to it".   Sounds like some of the justifications people use for anti-CRT laws.  

That is very important. 

There are any number of ways $2million could be spent to lift minority families out of poverty in NYC.  You could pay for 2 year degrees for about 170 kids.  You could train hundreds of electricians or plumbers or HVAC techs.  At $40/hr, you could pay for 50,000 hours of tutoring to help low performing students.

You could equip hundreds of NYC residents with the skills they need to stay out of poverty for the rest of their lives, and in doing so change the outlook for those families for generations.

Or you can spend the money to take down a statue so a very small group of very entitled people will feel better about symbolism.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
7.1.12  Texan1211  replied to  Jack_TX @7.1.11    4 months ago
Or you can spend the money to take down a statue so a very small group of very entitled people will feel better about symbolism.

I dare say that most who want statues removed are well enough off financially to not have to worry about poverty, so your great suggestions for using the money in actual productive ways won't be noticed. 

I bet the poor people think daily to themselves, "Man, I sure wish that statue was removed to improve my life".

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
7.1.13  Texan1211  replied to  JohnRussell @7.1.9    4 months ago
The removal of such statues is a societal acknowledgement that things have changed. That is very important. 

Man, if people can't tell that times have changed all on their own, then removing a statue is certainly NOT going to help them.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
7.1.14  Sparty On  replied to  Texan1211 @7.1.13    4 months ago

Triggering is a real problem these days ......

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
7.2  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  charger 383 @7    4 months ago
Teddy Roosevelt was one of our first environmentalists and a great president, but he said a few mean things that after over 100 years have upset  some so much that now his statue must be taken down.  Where will this craziness end?  

I'd like to give an answer to this question. 

I am an Indian and a fan of Teddy Roosevelt. I grew up on Long Island, where he is from and live only 10 min from his home, which I tour often to learn more about him, both good and bad.

Statues are a reflection of their times. There are many statues of Teddy, almost all are very tasteful. This particular one is a put down to both Indians and blacks and is in a prominent area. Personally, I don't want to look at a statue, that has my people as a subordinate to Teddy unless everyone is and clearly that is not the case. Also, this statue is not being destroyed but moved to a less prominent area. In this way, a compromise has been met.

I realize that it is hard to understand what it is like to be a minority and the past that goes along with that. To constantly feel like the "other" in one's own country, isn't fair, nor understanding.

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Quiet
7.2.1  charger 383  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @7.2    4 months ago

It is of Teddy Roosevelt, he is the main person here and is in the position of honor.  Looks like they are walking with him.   Looks like they are being included and also honored with Roosevelt.  

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
7.2.2  TᵢG  replied to  charger 383 @7.2.1    4 months ago

Given our knowledge of Roosevelt's bigotry against native Americans and the fact that this statue was funded by his father, chances are good that this is not intended to honor native Americans.

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Quiet
7.2.3  charger 383  replied to  TᵢG @7.2.2    4 months ago

If it was an attempt to mock them, why are they so strong and muscular looking? 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
7.2.4  TᵢG  replied to  charger 383 @7.2.3    4 months ago

I do not know what was in the minds of those who commissioned and produced the statue.   But I do know that Roosevelt was quite a bigot when it came to native Americans.

Based on that fact, why would one think it is likely that this statue is meant to honor native Americans?

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Quiet
7.2.5  charger 383  replied to  TᵢG @7.2.4    4 months ago

because they are with him.  The purpose of statues is to honor those depicted,  unless they are clearly shown as bad. 

To me it Looks like they are walking with the central figure who was known for riding horses

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
7.2.6  TᵢG  replied to  charger 383 @7.2.5    4 months ago

If so then Roosevelt either had a major change of heart or was trying to make up for his history of bigotry.

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Quiet
7.2.7  charger 383  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @7.2    4 months ago

there are only 2 people besides the cental figure on horseback, both are in the same pose, so they look equal to me.   Both look strong and impressive.  I think the statue honors all 3.

 Should other groups be complaining they were left out?

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
7.2.8  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  charger 383 @7.2.7    4 months ago

To me, I see two strong men being subservient to the man on the horse. Hight in art as in life (think of the Queen on the thrown) always meant to show power, conquest, higher than...

And then think of the history of this country and you can see how it is easy to make that assumption.

There are so many other statues of Roosevelt that do not convey this message and I have no issue with them. I hope that one of those or a new one will adorn this place instead.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
7.2.9  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @7.2.8    4 months ago

Why do people have to complain about this removal? Why not just accept it? The reason to remove it is obvious and just. No one on earth is harmed by the removal of this particular statue. No one. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
7.3  Texan1211  replied to  charger 383 @7    4 months ago
Where will this craziness end?  

I have a sinking feeling it won't.

Far too many snowflakes out there with faux poutrage over something they most likely had to be told about and told to be upset about. 

The woke crowd is in charge now!

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
7.3.1  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Texan1211 @7.3    4 months ago
The woke crowd is in charge now!

Oh please.

And you have no grounds to tell me what is faux outrage or not. You have not walked a mile in my shoes.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
7.3.2  Texan1211  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @7.3.1    4 months ago
And you have no grounds to tell me what is faux outrage or not. You have not walked a mile in my shoes.

I certainly did not address my comment to you.

If you took it personally, and the shoe fits, then that is all on you.

I bet 99% of people couldn't care less about some dumb statues, and most people can't tell why we are supposed to be outraged decades or centuries later.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
7.3.3  Ender  replied to  Texan1211 @7.3.2    4 months ago

If 99% don't care then no problem taking it down aye?

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
7.3.4  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Texan1211 @7.3.2    4 months ago

You made a general comment about a large swath of people. I responded. The shoe fits only because I am one of those you are addressing, right? That's on you.

I bet 99% of people couldn't care less about some dumb statues, and most people can't tell why we are supposed to be outraged decades or centuries later.

I can only speak for myself and I think I gave a clear explanation as to why I have an issue with this specific statute and how it can be remedied. And if they are dumb statues, why do you care?

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
7.3.5  Texan1211  replied to  Ender @7.3.3    4 months ago

If 99% don't care, then no problem leaving them alone, eh?

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
7.3.6  Texan1211  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @7.3.4    4 months ago

So in which year did you begin to think the statue should be removed?

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
7.3.7  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Texan1211 @7.3.6    4 months ago

I know that the statue made me feel uncomfortable when I was a kid on a school trip to the museum. Back in the 60's I was mocked for being an Indian and a Jew, but then again, I grew up in Wantagh, which was the headquarters for the Bund on Long Island, so no surprise there. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
7.3.8  Texan1211  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @7.3.7    4 months ago

I respect your experiences, but that really didn't

answer the question.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
7.3.9  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Texan1211 @7.3.8    4 months ago

I am assuming you mean when did I begin to think the statue should be removed?

Well, that is a bit of a journey. Until you are given a voice in a society, you don't say anything and in my childhood and youth, I had none.

As society evolved to be more accepting and interested in reevaluating our past, I began to wish that there was a better representation of Teddy. 

But society changes in fits and starts. It's been more recently that it seemed possible. Until then it seemed impossible. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
7.3.10  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Texan1211 @7.3.2    4 months ago
I bet 99% of people couldn't care less about some dumb statues, and most people can't tell why we are supposed to be outraged decades or centuries later.

[Deleted]

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
7.3.11  Texan1211  replied to  JohnRussell @7.3.10    4 months ago

[Deleted]

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
7.3.12  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Texan1211 @7.3.11    4 months ago

removed for context 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
7.3.13  Texan1211  replied to  JohnRussell @7.3.12    4 months ago
How am I confused?

[Deleted]

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
7.3.14  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Texan1211 @7.3.13    4 months ago

[Deleted]

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
7.3.15  Texan1211  replied to  JohnRussell @7.3.14    4 months ago

[Deleted]

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
8  Split Personality    4 months ago

In the history of the USA, the government negotiated and broke some 360 treaties with Native American tribes

contributing to the demise of approximately 12 million people at the hands of mostly white people and a white dominated 

government.

In general about 25% of all living America Indians still living on the res, do so in third world conditions.

Likewise the same people fought against the British and the Indians while establishing a new government 

and in establishing that new government protected the enslavement of millions of African slaves for over a hundred years.

Did the Civil war change the plight of African Americans?

Hell no.  Backlash, carpetbaggers, Jim Crow, red lining and the failure of SCOTUS to address or enforce fair housing laws

allowed discrimination to continue until present day.  In 1948 SCOTUS refused to rule that the racial caveats in Levittown

leases were unconstitutional. That Levittown and other similar housing ventures were for white WWII vets only.

They decided they were unenforceable basically screwing deed restrictions and refused to hear

many similar cases since then.

I have absolutely no white guilt about the past.  

I am concerned that the Fair Housing Act of 1968 has to be defended and upheld every year at SCOTUS,

.

The Controversial History of Levittown, America's First Suburb - Untapped New York (untappedcities.com)

2017

BANK OF AMERICA CORP. ET AL. v. CITY OF MIAMI, FLORIDA | FindLaw

2020

Trump Moves to Roll Back Obama Program Addressing Housing Discrimination - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

2022

Arlington settles federal housing discrimination lawsuit (msn.com)

Just because you don't see it happening doesn't mean discrimination isn't still happening.

It was a nice statue, I'm sure they will find a nice place to display it somewhere

and I won't feel any guilt about that either.

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Quiet
9  charger 383    4 months ago

Anybody that has a statue has probably done something to annoy some group somewhere

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
9.1  TᵢG  replied to  charger 383 @9    4 months ago

Especially given that societies evolve;  their mores and values evolve;  what was accepted as normal in older societies (and thus by the men and women of those times) is often seen quite differently a century (or more) later.

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
9.1.1  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  TᵢG @9.1    4 months ago

Agreed, but in many cases people of a bygone time and era are frequently judged, for good or bad,  by the mores of today rather than in the context of when they lived.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
9.1.2  TᵢG  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @9.1.1    4 months ago

That was my point.

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
9.1.3  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  TᵢG @9.1.2    4 months ago

Yep.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
9.1.4  Split Personality  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @9.1.3    4 months ago
 are frequently judged, for good or bad,  by the mores of today rather than in the context of when they lived.

The Egyptian Pharos were well known for defacing hieroglyphs and replacing them with their own BS.

The Muslims routinely repurposed churches and synagogues into Mosques. As long as they are dominant in an area, those buildings will remain as mosques.

The Russians rewrote history at will for a hundred years.

In the 1990s a few statues of the Czars came out of storage,

There are estimated to be only 4 statues of Marx and or Engels in public in Moscow.

Hundreds of Lenin and Communist Party sculptures were collected from all over Moscow

and placed in Fallen Monument Park.

In Germany, there are no public statues of Adolf hitler or Reinhard Heydrich nor any

monuments to Nazi soldiers at all.  German laws generally forbid any Nazi flags at all

or the use of the swastika for political use.

Isis, Al Quada et al looted their own counties' antiquities for black market cash and desecrated or destroyed

thousands of years of heritage for 'religious" reasons.

Koreans older than 40 still despise the old Japanese Imperial governments, the younger people dislike China much more.

We aren't that far removed from those sentiments ourselves,

yet we modern white Americans still romanticize the Wild West, the Civil War, how the West was "won".

We alone allow state holidays for the likes of Jeff Davis, Lee Stonewall Jackson.

We alone spend decades litigating statues to the likes of Nathan Bedford Forrest,

CSA general and Grand Wizard of the KKK.

Each statue removed to storage or a museum is just another step towards that ideal 

of July 4 1776 that all men are created equal.

We aren't quite there yet and we should never stop trying to achieve that.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
9.1.5  Split Personality  replied to  Split Personality @9.1.4    4 months ago

Comment about the future plans for

relocating the statue to the finally completed new Theodore Roosevelt Presidential Library

in North Dakota,

I predict instant protests by native Americans, not just from ND either.

Both figures should be surgically removed

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
9.1.6  Split Personality  replied to  Split Personality @9.1.5    4 months ago

Correction, the statue is being removed first for some refurbishing.

The TR Presidential Library is currently not scheduled to open until 2026.

The great great grandson said that should give "them" enough time to figure out a way to present the statue

in a way to teach about the past.

Medora ND, currently has 129 residents. The town expects great growth in tourism, hotels eateries etc.

However, it lies almost dead center between the Fort Peck Indian reservation to the northwest

Fort Bechold Indian Agency to the northeast and both the Standing Rock Indian Reservation

and the Cheyenne River Reservation to the southeast.

If statues could feel...

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
9.2  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  charger 383 @9    4 months ago

Obviously, that is true, but this particular statue does have symbolic messaging that most other statues don't. Measuring a person by the time they lived in is fair, but when the actual image is a putdown, that has to be taken into consideration.

And for the record, I would not be opposed if a new statue of Teddy was commissioned for that spot since the museum wouldn't have been possible without him.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
9.2.1  Sparty On  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @9.2    4 months ago

A healthy position.    

Doubtful many of the folks who wanted it gone would agree.    Not honestly anyway.  

Entirely too much hate held in those folks hearts.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
9.2.2  JBB  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @9.2    4 months ago

I agree. This particular statue is really cringey. 

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
9.2.3  Split Personality  replied to  Sparty On @9.2.1    4 months ago
Doubtful many of the folks who wanted it gone would agree.    Not honestly anyway.  

Doubtful that it's your place to judge them or assume that

Entirely too much hate held in those folks hearts.

Doubtful that there is any hate involved in trying to achieve the lofty goal of the Declaration of Independence

that all men are created equal.

It's a moral issue of right and wrong. period.

Teddy was a great leader of white people, sadly that is not what the statue conveys.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
10  Kavika     4 months ago

It's hilarious to see the whining about the statue of Roosevelt being removed. 

Deal with it snowflakes.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
10.1  Sean Treacy  replied to  Kavika @10    4 months ago

Lol… people supporting  the removal of a statue calling those who criticize them for it “snowflakes”.  Think about it, the people who were offended by a the statue of a president  calling other snowflakes. The projection is off the charts.

If you are going to destroy something, at least be able to take  criticism without whining…..

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
10.1.1  Kavika   replied to  Sean Treacy @10.1    4 months ago
If you are going to destroy something, at least be able to take  criticism without whining…..

LOL, it wasn't destroyed but being ignorant of the facts it's nice to see that you put your foot in your mouth again.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
10.1.2  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Sean Treacy @10.1    4 months ago
Lol… people supporting  the removal of a statue calling those who criticize them for it “snowflakes”.  

What's wrong with removing a statue which represents a time when people of color were lesser ?  I dont get what the complaint is. Statues are not "history". They are intended to glorify something. Here, there is no glory in this statue. 

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
10.1.3  Sean Treacy  replied to  Kavika @10.1.1    4 months ago
it wasn't destroyed but being ignorant of the facts it's nice to see that you put your foot in your mouth again.

Lol.. I said it was removed and the vision of the entrance with the statue is destroyed.

But, yeah, I can see why you focused on that rather than addressing the actual point.  Easier to deflect and distract than deal directly with the matter. . 

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
10.1.4  Sean Treacy  replied to  JohnRussell @10.1.2    4 months ago
What's wrong with removing a statue which represents a time when people of color were lesser ? 

That's really neither here nor there to what I wrote.

I was responding to Kavika projecting and calling anyone who dared criticize this a "snowflake." The snowflakes in this situation are those who were so triggered as to remove an famous  statue and then whine about being criticized for it.

The sheer entitlement of thinking you can do something like this without it being discussed or criticized is mind-blowing..

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
10.1.5  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Sean Treacy @10.1.4    4 months ago

I still dont get what the complaint is. You are not arguing on behalf of the statue, you are arguing against the people who removed it. 

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
10.1.6  Kavika   replied to  Sean Treacy @10.1.3    4 months ago
Lol… people supporting  the removal of a statue calling those who criticize them for it “snowflakes”.  Think about it, the people who were offended by a the statue of a president  calling other snowflakes. The projection is off the charts. If you are going to destroy something, at least be able to take  criticism without whining…..

That is your comment, nothing about vision or entrance, so stop with the BS lies, Sean.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
10.1.7  Dulay  replied to  Sean Treacy @10.1.3    4 months ago
Lol.. I said it was removed and the vision of the entrance with the statue is destroyed.

Sure Sean, you said that without using the word 'vision' or 'entrance'. 

What utter bullshit. 

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
10.1.8  Trout Giggles  replied to  Sean Treacy @10.1.3    4 months ago
If you are going to destroy something

that's not what you said....

 
 
 
Steve Ott
Professor Quiet
11  Steve Ott    4 months ago

I've been watching all these statues coming down for what, the last year or two? Time just runs together for me anymore.

For me, taking the statues down is like opening a history book and find parts of it crossed out rather than highlighted. Instead of tearing everything down, we put up more about the real history for people to read?

Let's layout the history of those whom those statues represent.

I read a story in the Washington Post this morning about a black man who bought a house in the area in which he grew up. It wasn't until after he bought it that he learned that at one time it had been the center of plantation. The plantation owner had owned his ancestors. He learned that the time of the civil war had not been taught in the schools because it caused 'discomfort'. History can do that, but I always encourage people to learn history. Thus my avatar. Rather than blot out what has happened, what about learning from it and trying to do better?

Then, perhaps in the future, we can put up some new statues showing how the history of the old statues was overcome.

 
 

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