New York's new private club craze is a cancer on the city

  

Category:  News & Politics

Via:  jbb  •  3 weeks ago  •  103 comments

By:   Steve Cuozzo (New York Post)

New York's new private club craze is a cancer on the city
Suddenly, members-only places catering to global carpetbaggers are clogging the pages of Page Six.

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T


September 3, 2022 10:12am Updated September 3, 2022 10:12am Casa Cipriani is among a wave of exclusive new private members clubs popping up across New York, a city where accomplishment usually trumps elitism. Darian DiCianno/BFA.com

Some things in life should be experienced in private. Sex, for example. Colonoscopies. But eating in fancy restaurants and hanging out in beautiful spaces should not be private affairs. Sadly, New York is becoming a place where such pleasures are reserved for the privileged few.

The Big Apple historically is the most public of great cities. Except for a handful of clubs for alumni of Harvard, Yale and other Ivy League institutions, almost everything is open to those who can afford a night out — even if it means waiting at the velvet rope.

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But suddenly, members-only places catering to global carpetbaggers are clogging the pages of Page Six. As a lifelong New Yorker, this offends me. No, it infuriates me. Pretentious, exclusionary establishments are exactly what our brave, embattled city does not need.

Public Offender No. 1 is Casa Cipriani, a mammoth, members-only hotel, restaurant and lounge atop the Battery Maritime Building downtown. Its numerous, Art Deco-inspired dining rooms, bars and terrace lounges are magnificent to behold, both indoors and out. Guests enjoy stupendous East River and skyline views. The Venetian-themed menu whips the arugula off those at lesser Ciprianis.

Behind Casa Cipriani's elegantly restored facade is a club, restaurant, spa and hotel off-limits to all but the deepest-pocketed swells.Courtesy of Casa Cipriani

But it's off-limits unless you're a club member, or you pay upwards of $800 a night for one of 47 guest rooms. This, even though the property is owned by the city, which put up tens of millions in taxpayer funds to restore the old ferry terminal to support the new structure on top of it.

What a slap in the face of New Yorkers who were led to expect a normal, open-to-all hotel and party venue at the site.

"Casa," which means "house" in Spanish and Italian, won't be open to normal New Yorkers at Casa Cruz either.

Mayor Eric Adams is a regular at Zero Bond, a private club where entry fees and annual dues can reach close to $10,000.Getty Images for Haute Living

Last week, two curious, fashionably-dressed young women who weren't members were let into the invitingly-lit club on East 61st Street by a friendly doorman (who's likely been fired since). Led to believe they were welcome, the women took seats at the bar upstairs — only to be icily booted because they didn't belong.

Mayor Eric Adams' favorite after-hours haunt is Zero Bond. An initiation fee of up to $4,000 plus annual dues up to $4,000 won't guarantee entrance to "two floors of plush lounges, private dining rooms, omakase restaurant, screening room and library," The New York Times reported.

The blessing of a membership committee is also required to enjoy what founder Scott Sartiano calls "a New York version of a London club."

The expansive pool at the new Aman hotel in New York, where an entry-level guest room will set you back $3,200 — not including breakfast. You can also stay if you join the private club for $200,000. Aman New York

Bloody ridiculous, if you ask me.

That's not all. Nightlife mogul Robin Birley, whose face was once scarred by a tiger, wants to launch a glamorous members-only club at 828 Madison Ave., modeled on his impenetrable 5 Hertford Street in London. And Carbone, where it's already impossible to snag a reservation, is planning to open a members-only Carbone at Hudson Yards along with a Japanese restaurant. Dubbed ZiZi's Club, it will be an offshoot of the owners' private club in Miami.

The bar at 5 Hertford Street, a notoriously exclusive private club in London whose owner, Robin Birley, hopes to open a similarly styled hideaway on the Upper East Side. Getty Images for Pace London

Meanwhile, don't even think about checking out the new Aman hotel in the Crown Building on Fifth Avenue. Unlike at any other hotel in the city, Aman's restaurant, jazz club, lounges and even the lobby are accessible only to room guests who pay $3,200-and-up a night or buy a $200,000 club membership. The hotel's doormen are dressed like Secret Service agents and guard the velvet rope on East 57th Street like Fort Knox, chasing would-be explorers away with a sneer.

It's easy to joke about the "private" metastasis. But it's a cancer on New York City's DNA. It exploits a deranged wistfulness for what New York City never had but titillates elitists: a class system. From the first Dutch settlements to today's 200-language metropolis, we are about inclusion, not exclusion.

Also jumping on the members-club bandwagon are the folks behind ultra-pricey Italian eatery Carbone (above), who are planning a private space in Hudson Yards modeled after one already running in Miami. Gabi Porter

We measure success in our accomplishments, not in initiation fees and the whims of "membership committees." If we can make it here, we can make it anywhere, and we don't need private clubs to prove it.

scuozzo@nypost.com

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JBB
Professor Principal
1  seeder  JBB    3 weeks ago

"I refuse to join any of these exclusive private clubs if they would have me as a member!" - Groucho 

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
2  seeder  JBB    3 weeks ago

Probably illegal immigrants from Russia and Serbia...

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Senior Quiet
3  Jack_TX    3 weeks ago

Why would a private club...much like private clubs that have existed for centuries in other parts of the world...represent "a cancer"?  

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
4  Sparty On    3 weeks ago

It’s still a free country ...... mostly .....

 
 
 
cjcold
Professor Quiet
4.1  cjcold  replied to  Sparty On @4    3 weeks ago

Worked the door and the room in some fancy clubs once upon a time. 

Thankfully I am now way too old to ever even think about doing that for a living ever again! 

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
5  Buzz of the Orient    3 weeks ago

Simply another one of the ways of widening the divide between the few ultra-rich and the vast majority of common indigents who covet the impossible dream of one day joining them.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
5.1  Sparty On  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @5    3 weeks ago

Your understanding of achieving the American dream is sophomoric at best.    For those willing to work smart and hard, it is still alive and well.

Big time.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
5.1.1  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Sparty On @5.1    3 weeks ago

Come on Sparty. Let's be real. I bet you work smart and hard. Can you afford to join a restaurant club for 10K as an opener? 

On the other hand, country clubs have always been a part of our makeup. It is a free country.

But no one can pretend that this is not snobbery at it's best.

 
 
 
mocowgirl
Professor Quiet
5.1.2  mocowgirl  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @5.1.1    3 weeks ago
But no one can pretend that this is not snobbery at it's best.

Would the feeling of being "safe" in a gated environment be a factor?  If so, is that snobbery or plain old paranoia?  Or do the uber wealthy need "safe" spaces for their mental and physical well-being?

I ask because it seems that the uber wealthy spend a lot of money on security.  More than I'll ever find out about with a simple google search, but here are two interesting articles.

Celebrities With The Most Advanced Security Teams | TheRichest

and

Bodyguards Give Advice on How to Protect Billionaires and Celebrities (businessinsider.com)

It can be hard to fathom how some of the world's richest people live, and the vast wealth that they control.

Many billionaires around the world are worth more   entire countries' GDPs . Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos, the richest person in the world, controls so much wealth that pending $88,000 to him is similar to an average American spending $1,   according to Business Insider's calculations .

Having that much money also comes with immense dangers — Walter Kwok, the eldest brother of Hong Kong's richest family, was   kidnapped by a local gang and held for ransom   in 1997. He was released after his family paid the gang nearly $80 million,   according to The New York Times , and was reportedly traumatized until his death in 2018.

So how does one protect them? Business Insider spoke to three bodyguards from   Intelligent Protection , a British bodyguard firm, to find out.

The 60-person firm's clientele has included billionaires, business executives, royal family members, and celebrities, such as supermodel Miranda Kerr and actor Benedict Cumberbatch. The company declined to provide the names of other clients for security reasons.

Intelligence Protection has bodyguards deployed around the globe, CEO Alex Bomberg told Business Insider, with teams in the UK, US, France, Spain, Italy, Monaco, United Arab Emirates, Oman, Jordan, and the Bahamas alone.

Here's are six lessons Bomberg and his colleagues shared on how they effectively protect the world's rich and famous.
 
 
 
mocowgirl
Professor Quiet
5.1.3  mocowgirl  replied to  mocowgirl @5.1.2    3 weeks ago

more info from people who work with the uber wealthy.    

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Senior Quiet
5.1.4  Jack_TX  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @5.1.1    3 weeks ago

Sparty neglects to mention that one must also possess enough courage to take risks.

And while $10k/yr may seem exclusive literally tens of millions of people can afford that.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
5.1.5  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Sparty On @5.1    3 weeks ago

I agree with you that the dream is there, but dreams don't pay the rent let alone allow diamond-class club privileges.  Not everyone is ABLE or in a position to work "smart and hard", and even if they can, opportunities for them may not be available.  As I've said many times, the streets of America are not paved with gold. 

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
5.1.6  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  mocowgirl @5.1.2    3 weeks ago
"Would the feeling of being "safe" in a gated environment be a factor?  If so, is that snobbery or plain old paranoia?  Or do the uber wealthy need "safe" spaces for their mental and physical well-being?"

Neither snobbery or plain old paranoia when it can just be plain old common sense.  In some kind of utopia where no crime exists, then you can apply your suggestions.  When I went to university there was no such thing as a "safe room", and I actually survived. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
5.1.7  TᵢG  replied to  Jack_TX @5.1.4    3 weeks ago

In addition to risk-taking, another critical quality is tenacity.   It is the rare business whose original business plan leads to success.   The typical path is filled with disappointment, stress, re-inventing, etc. and the road is full of ups and downs.   It is extremely easy for entrepreneurs to get discouraged and prematurely give up when matters seem hopeless.   One needs an attitude of failure (i.e. the demise of the business) is not an option and the willingness to be dynamic, work like a dog, and get out of one's comfort zone to do what must be done.

In short, the American dream exists, but it is no easy road.

Addendum:   There is a profound difference if one has a healthy-capitalized business vs the typical under-capitalized business.   It is much more enjoyable if one has the capital to do what is right rather than scrambling to keep the lights on while carving out time to still do what is right.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
5.1.8  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  TᵢG @5.1.7    3 weeks ago

And now "quiet quitting" is happening.

 
 
 
mocowgirl
Professor Quiet
5.1.9  mocowgirl  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @5.1.6    3 weeks ago
Neither snobbery or plain old paranoia when it can just be plain old common sense.

I have never known anyone who was uber wealthy, so I really don't understand enough about their risk factors to judge what they need to feel safe or be safe in 2022.

 

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
5.1.10  Sparty On  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @5.1.1    3 weeks ago

C’mon Perrie, it’s still a free country right ?    While you are correct, I would never be part of such a thing, that doesn’t mean I hate on people that are.     Not how I roll.    Whether I could afford it or not is irrelevant.    The point here is freedom of choice.

And you might be surprised what some Country Club memberships cost.    10k is nothing.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
5.1.11  Sparty On  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @5.1.8    3 weeks ago

Quiet quitting is nothing new, wokesters just gave it name.    I had to fire numerous “quiet quitters” over the years

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
5.1.12  Sparty On  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @5.1.5    3 weeks ago

People can make their own opportunities in America.    No so in China unless of course one knows or is a communist party member and is willing to goosestep to their tune

no party required here …..

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
5.1.13  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Sparty On @5.1.12    3 weeks ago

I don't think that Jack Ma or most other Chinese billionaires HAD to join the CPC to BECOME rich, although they may have been desired by the Central Committee to become members once they were.  I would venture that the Chinese billionaires (and I understand that there are more Chinese billionaires than American ones now) take pretty big goosesteps of their own.  The fact that you don't live in China is why you are swayed by propaganda to think that most of the people here even THINK about the CPC as they live their lives no different than you do.  You have been misled, and you can't mislead me with your conjectures about China because I happen to know different from personal experience.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
5.1.14  Sparty On  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @5.1.13    3 weeks ago

Lol you better do your math again.  

The USA has significantly more billionaires per capita than China.   And the supposition that Chinese businessman get to be billionaires without having the blessings of the CCP … is ridiculous.

Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Jeff Bezos, etc needed no such government approvals to make their billions.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Senior Quiet
5.1.15  Jack_TX  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @5.1.13    3 weeks ago
and I understand that there are more Chinese billionaires than American ones now

Latest data I've seen says it's close, but not quite there yet.  It's like 725 in the US vs 700 in China. 

But given current and impending economic conditions in both countries, that could all look very different in a few months.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
5.1.16  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Sparty On @5.1.14    3 weeks ago

Never was that good at math - got the historic lowest mark in calculus in the whole university history.  I wasn't talking per capita, but as Jack just pointed out I was wrong anyway.  However, it's interesting that you shifted to a per capita basis.  A previous member, when challenging me on the amount of pollution caused by the USA and China refused to consider that a per-capita basis (wherein the calculation shows that the Chinese people cause considerably less pollution than Americans do) and insisted that the consideration had to be nation to nation, even though China's population is about 4.5 times greater than America's.  

I'd venture to say that billionaires in China DO enjoy the blessings of the CPC, but they didn't need to to achieve that position, and in fact they also have the blessing of the peoole.  I recall that one of my students considered Jack Ma to be his hero and example to follow.  Isn't it amazing that a socialist country still admires and blesses billionaires among its population? 

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
5.1.17  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Jack_TX @5.1.15    3 weeks ago

I'm sure it will look different soon. 

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
5.1.18  Sparty On  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @5.1.16    3 weeks ago
A previous member, when challenging me on the amount of pollution caused by the USA and China refused to consider that a per-capita basis (wherein the calculation shows that the Chinese people cause considerably less pollution than Americans do) and insisted that the consideration had to be nation to nation, even though China's population is about 4.5 times greater than America's.  

Yep, that was me.    Or at least I was one of them and I still stand by what I said in relation to global warming.    

Per capita means little in that regard.   Only total CO2 emissions, which are substantially higher and accelerating fast in China while USA total emissions are going down.    Have been for over a decade.

Really don’t see a reasonable comparison to be made though with that and total # of billionaires.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
5.1.19  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Sparty On @5.1.18    3 weeks ago

It was the logic that was relevant.  And it wasn't you who had challenged me, it was one no longer around. If there were no such thing as borders between nations and the world was one unified whole, the emissions per capita would be more meaningful.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
5.1.20  Sparty On  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @5.1.19    3 weeks ago
It was the logic that was relevant.

Hardly.    One has to do with the fate of our planet.    The other is just a statistic of rich people.    Huge difference.

Huge!

And it wasn't you who had challenged me,

Yes I did, I recall it well.    If you don’t recall, c’est la vie.

If there were no such thing as borders between nations and the world was one unified whole, the emissions per capita would be more meaningful.

Spoken from a country that emits the most CO2 by far each year.    Where each year emissions are growing significantly while USA’s is going down.   China has zero room to chide any other country on CO2 emissions.

Zero!

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
5.1.21  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Sparty On @5.1.20    3 weeks ago

And what I recall was your ignorant comments to me over my Movie Quiz where you originally indicated to keep you on my notification list and then told me you never did, and I then sent you the proof.  So I don't put a lot of credence in ANY of your comments. 

HUGE

 
 
 
mocowgirl
Professor Quiet
5.1.22  mocowgirl  replied to  Sparty On @5.1.20    3 weeks ago
China has  zero  room to chide any other country on CO2 emissions.

Until the carbon footprint of US citizens are equal to or lessor than citizens in other countries, it might be prudent to quit blaming others for trying to attain the US lifestyle that we take for granted and/or as our "right" on the world stage.

Furthermore, many people in the US live better lives because of US companies exploiting cheap Chinese labor for the last two decades.

Good article below that might shed some light on why China isn't really doing anything much, if any, different than the US has done as our country became more affluent.

Climate change: US vs. China -- Here's how the two biggest emitters stack up - CNN
No country in the world has put more greenhouse gases into the atmosphere than the United States. And by a long way.
While China is by far the biggest emitter today, it hasn't always been. And that's important because emissions released even hundreds of years ago have contributed to global warming today. The world has already warmed by 1.2 degrees Celsius since the start of the Industrial Revolution, and scientists say we need to keep it to 1.5 degrees to stave off worsening impacts of the climate crisis.
China's CO2 emissions began   accelerating in the 2000s   as the country rapidly developed. Advanced countries, like the US, UK and many in Europe, have been industrializing -- and emitting climate-altering gases in the process -- for around 200 years. A lot of the comforts of living in a developed country have come at the cost of the climate.
Since 1850, China has emitted 284 billion tons of CO2,   according   to new analysis by Carbon Brief, a UK-based organization covering climate, energy and policy.
The US, on the other hand, industrialized decades earlier and has released 509 billion tons of CO2 -- twice as much.
China is a huge country of 1.4 billion people, so it makes sense it would emit more than smaller nations overall. But when you look at emissions per capita, the average Chinese person emits quite a bit less than the average American.
In 2019, China's per capita emissions reached 10.1 tons. By comparison, the US reached 17.6 tons, according to the Rhodium Group.
This in part comes down to lifestyle. Americans earn more money, they own   more gas-guzzling cars, and they fly more than the average Chinese person,   according   to Climate Transparency's 2021 report, citing independent energy research company Enerdata.
That's not to say China shouldn't be slashing emissions. China's per capita carbon footprint is rapidly catching up with those of wealthier nations -- in the past 20 years, it's nearly tripled.
In 2020, fossil fuels made up 87% of China's domestic energy mix, with 60% from coal, 20% from oil and 8% from natural gas, according to Enerdata.
In the US, 80% of the energy mix comes from fossil fuels. Of that, 33% is from oil, 36% from natural gas, and 11% from coal, Enerdata figures showed.
Natural gas produces fewer emissions than coal, but it is still harmful to the climate, and there are growing concerns that the US and other parts of the world are investing too heavily in gas instead of renewables.
China is the world's biggest user and producer of coal, consuming more than half the world's supply. That's in part because China produces so many products and materials for the world, which is why it's sometimes referred to as "the world's factory."
China produces more than half of the world's steel and cement, which is made from burning coking coal. Alternative fuels for these heavy industries, like green hydrogen, are in development but are not widely available yet at scale. The emissions from just those two industries in China are higher than the European Union's total CO2 emissions,   according   to the International Energy Agency (IEA).
To reach net zero by 2050, 90% of global electricity generation should come from renewable sources, with solar and wind accounting for nearly 70%,   according to the IEA.
 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Principal
5.1.23  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  mocowgirl @5.1.22    3 weeks ago
Until the carbon footprint of US citizens are equal to or lessor than citizens in other countries, it might be prudent to quit blaming others for trying to attain the US lifestyle that we take for granted and/or as our "right" on the world stage.

Prudent indeed.  Unless we lead the world in reductions, we shouldn’t expect others to act.

Furthermore, many people in the US live better lives because of US companies exploiting cheap Chinese labor for the last two decades.

Exactly, what’s shocking is how the CCP let their people be so exploited.

While China is by far the biggest emitter today, it hasn't always been. And that's important because emissions released even hundreds of years ago have contributed to global warming today.

Absolutely, the world owes China a pass until they catch up with the US.

 
 
 
mocowgirl
Professor Quiet
5.1.24  mocowgirl  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @5.1.23    3 weeks ago
Absolutely, the world owes China a pass until they catch up with the US.

How about India?

Net Zero? India Plans to DOUBLE Coal Use by 2040 – Watts Up With That?

Net Zero? India Plans to DOUBLE Coal Use by 2040

Essay by Eric Worrall

h/t JoNova; As the USA and Europe retreat from prosperity, India seems determined to overtake China, with a   400 million ton boost to coal production in the next two years , and a massive relaxation of environmental rules and other incentives to boost coal mining and industry.

Despite a commitment to increase its renewable energy capacity to 175 gigawatts by 2022 and 500 gigawatts by 2030, Coal and Mines Minister Pralhad Joshi said Friday that   India’s coal needs are set to double by 2040.

Read more:  
 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Principal
5.1.25  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  mocowgirl @5.1.22    3 weeks ago

I apologize.  You cited some good research and I shouldn’t have distracted from it with my sarcasm.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
5.1.26  Sparty On  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @5.1.21    3 weeks ago

Lol ..... now you’re just making shit up.    I did nothing of the sort.   That said, this article is not about me Buzz.    Grow up.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
5.1.27  Sparty On  replied to  mocowgirl @5.1.22    3 weeks ago

I’m not blaming anyone.    I’m only pointing out facts.    

The fact remains we are reducing our total carbon footprint and China’s in going up.    Significantly.    

What good will our green efforts do for global warming mitigation if our reductions are simply matched or exceeded by countries like China and India?

 
 
 
mocowgirl
Professor Quiet
5.1.28  mocowgirl  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @5.1.25    3 weeks ago
You cited some good research and I shouldn’t have distracted from it with my sarcasm.

Thank you.  

At 65, I have lived far longer than I ever imagined and with a far better quality of life than most people on the planet just because I was fortunate enough to be born in the US.

I cannot begrudge the citizens of other nations the chance to live with more amenities and possibly better lives.  

However, I wish that our species could find a way to live better without destroying the environment we require to exist.

 
 
 
mocowgirl
Professor Quiet
5.1.29  mocowgirl  replied to  Sparty On @5.1.27    3 weeks ago
What good will our green efforts do for global warming mitigation if our reductions are simply matched or exceeded by countries like China and India?

Very little.  But then again, I doubt that anyone in the US would be willing to swap lifestyles with the people we are asking to live with even less than they have today.

And if the US wants to make a really big difference in the emissions of other countries, then all the government has to do is move all of our manufacturing back to the US so we are held accountable for the pollution created by manufacturing everything our citizens buy.  

If we can move all of our manufacturing back and reduce co2 emissions and not pollute our air and water, then isn't that the best solution to getting rid of the problem with other countries not doing their fair share?

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
5.1.30  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Sparty On @5.1.26    3 weeks ago

Nor is it about me, so you get off my ass and I'll get off of yours.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Principal
5.1.31  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  mocowgirl @5.1.28    3 weeks ago
At 65, I have lived far longer than I ever imagined and with a far better quality of life than most people on the planet just because I was fortunate enough to be born in the US.

I'm 68 and survived Stage 4 cancer because I was fortunate enough to be born were I was with the medical insurance that I have.

I cannot begrudge the citizens of other nations the chance to live with more amenities and possibly better lives.  

Ok, but if it entails adding to climate change, don't we all have to begrudge?

 
 
 
Thomas
Sophomore Guide
5.1.32  Thomas  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @5.1.16    3 weeks ago

Since it is the world as a whole,  should it not be "per acre?"

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
5.1.33  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Thomas @5.1.32    3 weeks ago

I've already pointed out that on a per capita basis the people in China pollute MUCH LESS THAN the people in America on a per capita basis.  That's just more evidence that the Chinese people are more concerned with the good of the community as contrasted with the American creed of personal rights and freedoms being paramount.  

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Principal
5.1.34  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @5.1.33    3 weeks ago
That's just more evidence that the Chinese people are more concerned with the good of the community as contrasted with the American creed of personal rights and freedoms being paramount.  

Exactly, the Chinese people are voting their concerns, not what the CCP says.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
5.1.35  Sean Treacy  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @5.1.33    3 weeks ago
hat's just more evidence that the Chinese people are more concerned

Right. It's not because they are much poorer. It's because they care. 

China's Per capita GDP is about on par with Botswana.  Why do they pollute so much more per capita than the people of Botswana? Do the Chinese just not care as much about their community as the people of Botswana, who have one the highest murder rates per capita in the world?  

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
5.1.36  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Sean Treacy @5.1.35    3 weeks ago

The discussion was about China and America - but of course you can deflect from it with discussions about whatever you please notwithstanding it's entirely off topic and irrelevant.  Par for the course.  But as for the Chinese people being much poorer, don't make me laugh.  China eradicated abject poverty, everything costs much less here than in America (which I have already established a number of times), and there aren't a half a million people sleeping under bridges or on the street like in America.  

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
5.1.37  Sean Treacy  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @5.1.36    3 weeks ago

Your “reasoning” is asinine and I demonstrated why.  

 Why do you deny reality?  Chinas per capita gdp is comparable to Botswana.   That’s a fact, not ccp propaganda.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
5.1.38  Buzz of the Orient  impassed  Sean Treacy @5.1.37    3 weeks ago
✋🏼
 
 
 
shona1
Junior Participates
5.1.39  shona1  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @5.1.31    3 weeks ago

Arvo drinker...so all your cancer treatment etc you either have to have insurance or do you have to pay for it out of your own pocket???

Mine is all free and have probably clicked up half a million so far.. And I have every intention of clicking up more..😁.

Hang in there Drinker and kick cancers arse.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
5.1.40  Sparty On  replied to  mocowgirl @5.1.29    3 weeks ago

Yes, we can keep paying the cost to reduce our carbon footprint and I guess we are just supposed to accept that what we’ve reduced, will just be replaced and/or exceeded by countries like China and India.    Giving them another economic advantage over the US and causing more global warming.

That makes little sense to me ...... but we’ll sure feel better about ourselves.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
5.1.41  Sparty On  replied to  Sean Treacy @5.1.37    3 weeks ago

[removed]

 
 
 
mocowgirl
Professor Quiet
5.2  mocowgirl  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @5    3 weeks ago
Simply another one of the ways of widening the divide between the few ultra-rich and the vast majority of common indigents who covet the impossible dream of one day joining them.

The eternal quest to attain what few people ever attain:  satisfaction and contentment with life in the present.    Lives are wasted in re-living the past or planning for a future that may never happen.

The struggle between Ego and Money (forbes.com)

You can tell that your Ego is present in situations when you feel yourself becoming stressed, defensive, outraged, offended and angry (although some people turn their anger inward and become depressed).  You find yourself saying or thinking:

  • Why did this happen to ME?
  • What have I done to deserve this?
  • How dare they _____________?
  • How will I ever attain X, now that this has happened?
  • There is NO OTHER OPTION!

Allowing your ego to take over will never bring you closer to financial happiness or acceptance of financial mistakes.  The Ego relies on you feeling like the donkey with the carrot attached to the stick just a little bit ahead of him . . . just when you think you’ve ALMOST made it, the damn carrot stays just out of reach.  The Ego forces you to focus on the way things should be, and leaves you constantly dissatisfied with current conditions.  Financial happiness depends on your ability to disregard the goals of the Ego and stay present in the moment.  Rather than obsessing on how things are supposed to go, you instead accept that events are unfolding as they are (and can unfold no other way except how they are unfolding), and use that as your starting point.

From a law of attraction standpoint, letting go of the “should” in your life also allows you to focus on the essence of what you want, instead of the form.  This is also very   Buddha-esque , in that he believed that the origin of suffering is attachment to transient things which not only include the physical objects that surround us, but also ideas.    Abraham Hicks   says you can have the ESSENCE of anything you want, but it rarely comes in the form you expect or want . . . but if you allow it, the result is better than you could have ever imagined.

The moment you become aware of and acknowledge your Ego, the less power it has over you.  I often notice it “leaking” when I am driving; if I am getting   frustrated with other drivers , I know that I am buying into the way things “should be” instead of accepting “what is.”  When this happens, I take a close look at all of the areas of my life to see where I am letting my Ego create expectations for me.

There is no specific object or thing, position or status that you need to help define who you are in this world, or that in and of itself will help you achieve financial happiness.  The moment you let go of that, the REAL you is freed to explore a life uniquely suited to you, and better—definitely more affordable--than you could have ever imagined.
 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
5.2.1  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  mocowgirl @5.2    3 weeks ago

I totally agree. Being content with what you have, is the secret to a happy life.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
5.2.2  Sparty On  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @5.2.1    3 weeks ago

So these folk are being content by spending their money on a private club. I really don’t understand the hatred towards that.    Not at all.    

Seems like simple petty jealousy to me.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
5.2.3  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Sparty On @5.2.2    3 weeks ago

I don't hate them. If this is how they want to waste their money, I am fine with it. 

It's just so shallow, and I am allowed to have that opinion of them.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
5.2.4  Sparty On  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @5.2.3    3 weeks ago
I don't hate them.

I didn’t say “you” hated them but your dislike is pretty clear.

If this is how they want to waste their money, I am fine with it. 

That statement speaks for itself.

It's just so shallow, and I am allowed to have that opinion of them.

And it’s my opinion that it’s shallow when people judge other people’s personal business like this.    Petty and shallow.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
5.2.5  TᵢG  replied to  Sparty On @5.2.4    3 weeks ago
That statement speaks for itself.

Yes it does.   Perrie thinks restaurant clubs are a waste of money but she is "fine" if others feel otherwise.   

And it’s my opinion that it’s shallow when people judge other people’s personal business like this .     Petty and shallow .

You judge Perrie as " petty and shallow " because you believe she did " judge other people's personal business like this ".

jrSmiley_84_smiley_image.gif

( You apparently do not realize the self-contradiction you penned and do not see that your comment made things personal. )

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
5.2.6  Sparty On  replied to  TᵢG @5.2.5    3 weeks ago

We’ll, you’re judging my judgement of Perries judgement of other people so you’ve got no high ground in the matter.

Shall we keep going?

( You apparently do not realize the self-contradiction you penned and do not see that your comment made things personal.  Interesting ...... )

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
5.2.7  Trout Giggles  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @5.2.1    3 weeks ago
Being content with what you have, is the secret to a happy life.

And having low expectations

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
5.2.8  TᵢG  replied to  Sparty On @5.2.6    3 weeks ago
We’ll, you’re judging my judgement of Perries judgement of other people so you’ve got no high ground in the matter.

No, Sparty, what I did was point out that your comment was both a self-contradiction and made things personal.   That is not a judgement of you as a person nor does it make things personal.   It is an analytical observation of the comment you made.

And I apparently was correct in my observation that you do not realize the self-contradiction and personal nature of your comment.

In direct contrast, you judged Perrie as a person.   See?

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
5.2.9  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Sparty On @5.2.6    3 weeks ago

Sparty,

It was YOU who made this personal:

And it’s my opinion that it’s shallow when people judge other people’s personal business like this.    Petty and shallow.

You are talking about ME in that comment. I am talking about unknown people, unless you identify with them, then you might take that personally.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
5.2.10  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Trout Giggles @5.2.7    3 weeks ago

But are you happy?

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
5.2.11  Sparty On  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @5.2.9    3 weeks ago

No, it wasn’t intended to be personal Perrie.    It’s my opinion.    You took it personal.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
5.2.12  Trout Giggles  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @5.2.10    3 weeks ago

Of course I am! I never had big dreams or expectations so the things I achieved and have are all gravy to me

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
5.2.13  TᵢG  replied to  Trout Giggles @5.2.7    3 weeks ago

Well, do they have to be low ?   Could they be reasonable instead?    jrSmiley_82_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
5.2.14  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Trout Giggles @5.2.12    3 weeks ago

Good for you! Life is short. It should be spent contented and happy!

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
5.2.15  Trout Giggles  replied to  TᵢG @5.2.13    3 weeks ago

LOL!

One can strive for reasonable....

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
5.2.16  TᵢG  replied to  Sparty On @5.2.11    3 weeks ago
You took it personal.

Your comment was dead-on, absolutely personal.   There is no ambiguity here Sparty.   When you deem someone as being "petty and shallow" you are making a personal, derogatory comment.   

You were not talking in general, you were replying in direct context to Perrie.

Of course she will take that personal; anyone with basic English skills would do likewise.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
5.2.17  Sparty On  replied to  TᵢG @5.2.8    3 weeks ago
That is not a judgement of you as a person nor does it make things personal.

More pretzel logic from the master.

Suffice it to say that once again, I disagree with you completely and absolutely.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
5.2.18  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Sparty On @5.2.11    3 weeks ago

jrSmiley_27_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
5.2.19  TᵢG  replied to  Sparty On @5.2.17    3 weeks ago
More pretzel logic from the master.

Real simple, if you write a comment that speaks negatively about your interlocutor rather than about the content of their comment, you are making things personal.

As an example, is the above quote part of an impersonal dialogue or does it make things personal?

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
5.2.20  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  TᵢG @5.2.16    3 weeks ago
You were not talking in general, you were replying in direct context to Perrie. Of course she will take that personal; anyone with basic English skills would do likewise.

Thank you! You nailed it.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
5.2.21  Trout Giggles  replied to  TᵢG @5.2.19    3 weeks ago

Pretzel logic master?

I guess one might see it that way if they have to consult a dictionary while conversing with you, TiG

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
5.2.22  Sparty On  replied to  TᵢG @5.2.16    3 weeks ago
No. your comment was dead-on, absolutely personal.

Wrong, as noted it wasn’t intended to be but was taken that way.    Your opinion on the matter is meaningless.

   
   When you deem someone as being "petty and shallow" you are making a personal, derogatory comment.

Wrong, one can deem an action as petty and shallow and not think a person is petty and shallow.    Perrie knows I respect her.    If I thought she was petty and shallow I would say so.   I don’t need the NT brain trust here making shit up about it   

You were not talking in general, you were replying in direct context to Perrie.

Wrong, see above.

Of course she will take that personal; anyone with basic English skills would do likewise.

If she does, that’s on her.    Basic human psychology.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
5.2.23  TᵢG  replied to  Sparty On @5.2.22    3 weeks ago

shoveling_hole_pc_800_wht.jpg

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
5.2.24  Sparty On  replied to  Trout Giggles @5.2.21    3 weeks ago

Passive aggressive mode ..... engaged .... bleep, blop, bloop .....

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
5.2.25  Sparty On  replied to  TᵢG @5.2.23    3 weeks ago

Lol .... stop projecting ....

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
5.2.26  Sparty On  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @5.2.20    3 weeks ago

Got it Perrie .... noted for future reference.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Senior Quiet
5.2.27  Jack_TX  replied to  Trout Giggles @5.2.7    3 weeks ago
And having low expectations

Apparently there is some actual science to support this idea.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
5.2.28  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Trout Giggles @5.2.7    3 weeks ago
"Being content with what you have, is the secret to a happy life.
And having low expectations"

Hah! I THOUGHT I remembered a reference to "low expectations" from the movies...

OIP-C.PZJx-0cglwk-PB1LBCPpdAAAAA?pid=ImgDet&rs=1

That line was spoken by Walter (Bill Pullman) to Annie (Meg Ryan) when she gave him back his mother's engagement ring because she was heading to the observation deck of the Empire State Building to meet with Sam (Tom Hanks). 

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
5.2.30  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  TᵢG @5.2.19    3 weeks ago
"Real simple, if you write a comment that speaks negatively about your interlocutor rather than about the content of their comment, you are making things personal."

TiG, give it up, I know from experience that you're wasting your time. 

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
PhD Quiet
5.2.31  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @5.2.30    3 weeks ago

Some people just want to Sparty all the time, Sparty all the time... Sparty all the Tiiiiimme

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
5.2.32  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  igknorantzrulz @5.2.31    3 weeks ago

LOL.  Had to look that one up...

  1. Aug 23, 2009  · 1) A  party  consisting of exactly 300 people. Any extra people are kicked out by the  party  hosts as they yell, "THIS...IS...SPARTA!!!!!" 2) (true to the word) A  party  ...

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
5.2.33  TᵢG  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @5.2.30    3 weeks ago

Again, Buzz, I do not write to change the mind of the individuals I address (typically, as you note, a waste of time) but rather to expose intellectual dishonesty and/or challenge trolling.

 
 
 
cjcold
Professor Quiet
5.3  cjcold  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @5    3 weeks ago

That almost sounded like cynicism.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
5.3.1  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  cjcold @5.3    3 weeks ago

Yes, almost.  As Leo DiCaprio replied to Billy Zane who said in the movie Titanic: "You could almost pass as a gentleman", DiCaprio replied: "Almost".   Ah, the movies, what a blessing. 

 
 
 
Raven Wing
Professor Expert
5.3.2  Raven Wing  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @5.3.1    3 weeks ago

Titanic is one of the movies I made sure I watched. I would love to watch it again.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
5.3.3  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Raven Wing @5.3.2    3 weeks ago

Cameron did a great job with that movie.  At least three Canadians involved - Cameron, Celine Dionne who sang the themesong, and Victor Garber who played the ship's architect is related to me as a cousin through my late sister-in-law's family. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
6  JohnRussell    3 weeks ago

"Destroy the ego"

attributed to the Buddha

 
 
 
cjcold
Professor Quiet
6.1  cjcold  replied to  JohnRussell @6    3 weeks ago

I'm pretty sure that my ego is the only thing that keeps me alive!

My id just keeps trying to kill me!

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
6.1.1  JohnRussell  replied to  cjcold @6.1    3 weeks ago

Eastern philosophy teaches that everything in this life is transitory, what once was up will go down, and vice versa. At some point, an unknown point actually, rich people's money will no longer save them from the burdens of life, be they medical, mental, or family challenges. The ego never wants to let go of things that will change whether we like it or not. 

To my knowledge, there are no religions that promote the idea of ego as a good thing. 

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
6.1.2  Sparty On  replied to  JohnRussell @6.1.1    3 weeks ago

Perhaps you should move east ...

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
6.1.3  JohnRussell  replied to  Sparty On @6.1.2    3 weeks ago

I can think properly no matter where I am. 

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
6.1.4  Sparty On  replied to  JohnRussell @6.1.3    3 weeks ago

Debatable, very debatable.

 
 
 
Thomas
Sophomore Guide
6.2  Thomas  replied to  JohnRussell @6    3 weeks ago

Talking To the Buddha - Gandalf Murphy and the Slambovian Circus of Dreams (the song starts at 1:50)

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
7  JohnRussell    3 weeks ago

The excesses of the rich play both a good and a bad purpose.  The bad is that the rich end up thinking they are better than everyone else, but the good is that "regular people" who hang out in sports bars and even dive bars develop more community and solidarity with themselves. 

I live in a neighborhood filled with union and city workers who make a good but not extravagant living. Maybe they can take a trip with the family to Disney World or Washington DC etc once a year, and maybe they have a second house cottage on a lake in Michigan or Wisconsin. Maybe they can even afford to go to White Sox or Bears games more than once or twice a year. They have their big screen tv's and their pick up trucks. Their kids play organized sports and the parents go to most of if not all the games.  People like that couldnt care less about what the rich are doing in private nightclubs and hotels. They know they are living their best life right now. 

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Senior Quiet
7.1  Jack_TX  replied to  JohnRussell @7    3 weeks ago
The bad is that the rich end up thinking they are better than everyone else

In order for that to be bad, one must care what they think.  

People like that couldnt care less about what the rich are doing in private nightclubs and hotels. They know they are living their best life right now. 

Exactly.  Why should anyone care?

 
 
 
cjcold
Professor Quiet
7.2  cjcold  replied to  JohnRussell @7    3 weeks ago

Have known many of the rich and famous over the years.

They are just folk most of the time.

Many regret stardom because of the no more privacy thingy.

 
 
 
Gsquared
Senior Expert
7.2.1  Gsquared  replied to  cjcold @7.2    3 weeks ago

I have known many, too, and most of the ones I've known are down to earth, really nice people.  Some with crazy reputations are totally normal in real life, but I have known a few who live up to their reputations.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
8  Sean Treacy    3 weeks ago

The idea that New York never had a class system is idiotic.  There’s a whole genre of literature based upon it.

 
 
 
cjcold
Professor Quiet
8.1  cjcold  replied to  Sean Treacy @8    3 weeks ago

So you also saw the Gangs of New York.

 
 
 
squiggy
Sophomore Quiet
9  squiggy    3 weeks ago

Anybody will jump jump to for the right price - anybody.

aoc-tax-the-rich-011.jpg?quality=75&strip=all

 
 
 
cjcold
Professor Quiet
10  cjcold    3 weeks ago

I'm pretty sure that my ego is the only thing that keeps me alive!

 
 
 
Revillug
Freshman Guide
11  Revillug    3 weeks ago

Anna Delvey was a visionary.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
11.1  Trout Giggles  replied to  Revillug @11    3 weeks ago

I'm currently re-watching that! I was just thinking of her when I read about these exclusive clubs, spas, and hotels. That's what she was working on

 
 
 
Revillug
Freshman Guide
11.1.1  Revillug  replied to  Trout Giggles @11.1    2 weeks ago

That Netflix series was great.

Finally got around to watching Dopesick on Hulu. Another great dramatization of non-fiction source material.

 
 

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